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Game making thoughts - Moving to Beat'em-Up
While you have a lookie at Gejhi and Jeibu there (who canonically don't see each other in these states lol), I figure I should talk a bit about some stuff on my mind. I would make a journal, but I think this would have a bit more reach. I've recently had a lot on my mind with stuff going on, and I've also been thinking more about what I'm doing with my game-making endevours here. I think I might have to - for now - drop the idea of making a full-on fighting game, at least with the design I've had up to this point. I've been intending to make this a sort of platforming/beat'em up hybrid anyway, but one that handles more like a fighting game in combat feel.
Very recently, I think I might have to shift my focus to something more simplified and there are a LOT of reasons for this but the biggest one is NICHE PROBLEMS.
Fighting games are very niche. They are intimidating to people unfamiliar with how complicated they can seem. Even with my attempts to keep things simple, I still fear that a more casual or newer player to this genre will have a hard time just picking up and playing.
I'm also a furry, making furry characters.... this puts me into a double niche when mixed with fighting games. I'll be honest here and say that I know my non-interest in making NSFW or .... "interest" targeted content in my game also hurts me in broader appeal within the niche of furry. Lets all be honest with ourselves, the NSFW sells around here. I can see it in all of my posting stats, lol. I'm not trying to disparage anyone over this. People like what they like, I like the NSFW stuff too, but for personal reasons, I just don't like mixing the two. My brain is in a completely different mode when gaming.
This shit is a lot of work, and I've come to accept that it's unsustainable at my current pace, things are stabilizing for sure as I'm taking much less commissions now, and shrinking my queue down. I will soon have a lot more time to work on this, but it's still a very large undertaking for me to do, all by myself, when I'm making characters that have about 800 to 1000 frames of animation assets (largely because of the animation standard I'm holding myself too, making shit look good and smooth). And I have something around 16-20 characters.... this is all too much for me to do on my own.
Like even in the broader game dev and fighting game circles I show off my WIPs to, I know I'm "the furry" in those groups, with some character designs some might assume the 'worst' of. I do get some good reception in those circles for my work, but how many of them will realistically be interested in this similarly. It's just how it is.
It's hard for me to hold support (patreon) on this massive project. Niche in a niche, and my inconsistencies with updates (even though I don't charge months where my update is none or small). I don't blame anyone for this other than myself. It's just me being a doof and trying to push something big I'm too slow for, and I also can't expect people to support a project.... even if I was faster... for a game they might barely be able to play, or not want to go through the effort to learn and get good at.
As much as I'm doing this for myself, I still want to put something out that people will like and enjoy playing. To spend more years on something like this, put it out into the world and have it gain little traction because of it's double niche would sting a bit.
"SO WHAT DOES ALL THIS SHIT MEAN, VIN? THE FUCK YOU DOIN?" I hear you asking.
I'm going to be shifting focus to something much simpler in playstyle. I'm still using the same sprites and style, but controls and movesets are going to be boiled down to the most important parts of their kits to fit a platformer and/or beat'em-up style of game, with straight forward controls. I will be preserving some of the fighting game feel to it. Instead of making a fighting game with platformer/beat'em-up elements, I'm flipping to a platformer/beat'em up with fighting game elements.
I'm not throwing away the system I have created so far though. I'm going to save it, and maybe I can expand the roster's moveset later on, and make another project later that uses it as a fun expanded fighting game experience with it's own side-story as a "Fighting festival" of sorts, which I had planed as the first release before I added story.
This will also save me a ton of time on animation. If all I have to do is something like 10 attack animations for each character, this means production time for each character is significantly quicker for me.
I think boiling my character ideas down to just a 2 attack button format (normal, special) with simple combos, and perhaps very simple command inputs like SoR's (Fow,fow) kind of thing. Some opportunity to learn some juggles and interesting things with the simple moveset, like, for example, Streets of Rage 4 has (which I play a LOT of survival mode). I'll probs turn one of the attack buttons I have now, into an item/interaction button to pick things up and whatever.
This project doesn't have to be my magnum anus. I can make different things.
I'm still going to be doing this all in IkemenGo for now, because it's what I know, and it's added all sorts of support for making platforms, and z-axis movement, if I opt to go that classic beat'em-up route. I can make a fun simple-player experience with it, can still tell a lil story with branching paths and all that.
So, what I'm likely going to do, is try out and test a few things, and maybe over the summer, work on having Gejhi, Rael, and Aurumo modded over to whatever my new system is, make a few levels with some enemies and a couple bosses and at some point over summer/fall, toss out a free demo for people to play with those 3 characters working. I'll be keeping the tag-team gimmick as well, either as the same 2-character tag unit, or allowing the player access to all 3 at the same time.
I still want to make something fast-paced with some wacky movement options. I shall see in testing.
Thanks for reading!
Places:
FurAffinity | InkBunny | Weasyl | Twitter
Buy Me a Coffee! (Ko-Fi Tip Jar)
Piczel - Art/Animation/IkemenGo Stream
Twitch - IkemenGo Streams
--> PATREON FOR IKEMENGO CONTENT
https://www.vinvulpis.com/
Commission Info
Very recently, I think I might have to shift my focus to something more simplified and there are a LOT of reasons for this but the biggest one is NICHE PROBLEMS.
Fighting games are very niche. They are intimidating to people unfamiliar with how complicated they can seem. Even with my attempts to keep things simple, I still fear that a more casual or newer player to this genre will have a hard time just picking up and playing.
I'm also a furry, making furry characters.... this puts me into a double niche when mixed with fighting games. I'll be honest here and say that I know my non-interest in making NSFW or .... "interest" targeted content in my game also hurts me in broader appeal within the niche of furry. Lets all be honest with ourselves, the NSFW sells around here. I can see it in all of my posting stats, lol. I'm not trying to disparage anyone over this. People like what they like, I like the NSFW stuff too, but for personal reasons, I just don't like mixing the two. My brain is in a completely different mode when gaming.
This shit is a lot of work, and I've come to accept that it's unsustainable at my current pace, things are stabilizing for sure as I'm taking much less commissions now, and shrinking my queue down. I will soon have a lot more time to work on this, but it's still a very large undertaking for me to do, all by myself, when I'm making characters that have about 800 to 1000 frames of animation assets (largely because of the animation standard I'm holding myself too, making shit look good and smooth). And I have something around 16-20 characters.... this is all too much for me to do on my own.
Like even in the broader game dev and fighting game circles I show off my WIPs to, I know I'm "the furry" in those groups, with some character designs some might assume the 'worst' of. I do get some good reception in those circles for my work, but how many of them will realistically be interested in this similarly. It's just how it is.
It's hard for me to hold support (patreon) on this massive project. Niche in a niche, and my inconsistencies with updates (even though I don't charge months where my update is none or small). I don't blame anyone for this other than myself. It's just me being a doof and trying to push something big I'm too slow for, and I also can't expect people to support a project.... even if I was faster... for a game they might barely be able to play, or not want to go through the effort to learn and get good at.
As much as I'm doing this for myself, I still want to put something out that people will like and enjoy playing. To spend more years on something like this, put it out into the world and have it gain little traction because of it's double niche would sting a bit.
"SO WHAT DOES ALL THIS SHIT MEAN, VIN? THE FUCK YOU DOIN?" I hear you asking.
I'm going to be shifting focus to something much simpler in playstyle. I'm still using the same sprites and style, but controls and movesets are going to be boiled down to the most important parts of their kits to fit a platformer and/or beat'em-up style of game, with straight forward controls. I will be preserving some of the fighting game feel to it. Instead of making a fighting game with platformer/beat'em-up elements, I'm flipping to a platformer/beat'em up with fighting game elements.
I'm not throwing away the system I have created so far though. I'm going to save it, and maybe I can expand the roster's moveset later on, and make another project later that uses it as a fun expanded fighting game experience with it's own side-story as a "Fighting festival" of sorts, which I had planed as the first release before I added story.
This will also save me a ton of time on animation. If all I have to do is something like 10 attack animations for each character, this means production time for each character is significantly quicker for me.
I think boiling my character ideas down to just a 2 attack button format (normal, special) with simple combos, and perhaps very simple command inputs like SoR's (Fow,fow) kind of thing. Some opportunity to learn some juggles and interesting things with the simple moveset, like, for example, Streets of Rage 4 has (which I play a LOT of survival mode). I'll probs turn one of the attack buttons I have now, into an item/interaction button to pick things up and whatever.
This project doesn't have to be my magnum anus. I can make different things.
I'm still going to be doing this all in IkemenGo for now, because it's what I know, and it's added all sorts of support for making platforms, and z-axis movement, if I opt to go that classic beat'em-up route. I can make a fun simple-player experience with it, can still tell a lil story with branching paths and all that.
So, what I'm likely going to do, is try out and test a few things, and maybe over the summer, work on having Gejhi, Rael, and Aurumo modded over to whatever my new system is, make a few levels with some enemies and a couple bosses and at some point over summer/fall, toss out a free demo for people to play with those 3 characters working. I'll be keeping the tag-team gimmick as well, either as the same 2-character tag unit, or allowing the player access to all 3 at the same time.
I still want to make something fast-paced with some wacky movement options. I shall see in testing.
Thanks for reading!
Places:
FurAffinity | InkBunny | Weasyl | Twitter
Buy Me a Coffee! (Ko-Fi Tip Jar)
Piczel - Art/Animation/IkemenGo Stream
Twitch - IkemenGo Streams
--> PATREON FOR IKEMENGO CONTENThttps://www.vinvulpis.com/
Commission Info
Category Artwork (Digital) / Fantasy
Species Original Species
Size 750 x 567px
File Size 265.9 kB
Changing it into a beat 'em up sounds great to me honestly. I love fighting games with furries, but I really love beat 'em ups with furries more. And if it was already leaning on the side of a beat 'em up anyway, maybe it is a safer and easier transition to make for it. I think the animations and sprites that exist already for the game would fit in with that, too. I look forward to it.
Yeah, that's what I figure. I'll just keep movesets small, and I can always just port them over and expand the movesets later. I already have enough to just start designing enemies and levels for 3 playable characters. I'll just need to settle on, platforms, or z-axis both have their benefits, but I think it might get silly doing both at the same time unless I'm very careful.
I absolutely adore your spritework and while I'd love something NSFW, I'd still be interested if only it wasn't in a traditional FG! I understand the genre and I've tried to jump in a few times before but I've never really been hooked :\
A beat 'em up is totally up my alley though! And it still gives space for some of those traditional FG flavors to come through, really good move imo.
A beat 'em up is totally up my alley though! And it still gives space for some of those traditional FG flavors to come through, really good move imo.
Streets of Rage 4 is a perfect example. It's still a beat'em-up but the combo system is fighting-game-like and fun as hell.
And yeah, I mean, I love the NSFW stuff, love drawing it, it's just a weird wire cross in my brain to do both, but who knows, if I manage to make something good as a base here, nothing stopping me from experimenting with a side project for that. XD
I just need a main project I can do faster first.
And yeah, I mean, I love the NSFW stuff, love drawing it, it's just a weird wire cross in my brain to do both, but who knows, if I manage to make something good as a base here, nothing stopping me from experimenting with a side project for that. XD
I just need a main project I can do faster first.
Weaving vore or more traditional NSFW into a game and making it fun without being a glorified Gallery is hard, especially if you aren't going to do something like make Flicky with Tiger Skin Peppers. Making a fighting game that's popular is even harder than that. So, this is the correct path I'd say.
Basically all of that. It's why I don't fine NSFW games that interesting. My ADHD monkey brain wants to "unga-bunga press buttons do big combo." I feel like the NSFW stuff rips me out of the action and it's more frustrating to have the pace broken up constantly. If I did anything of that sort, it's just gonna be a silly lil side project.
Yeah, and doing this will save me on so much effort and time, while making something with a wider appeal, which I can still make interesting mechanically, while still simple to pick up.
Yeah, and doing this will save me on so much effort and time, while making something with a wider appeal, which I can still make interesting mechanically, while still simple to pick up.
Something you also didn't mention, which is what truly makes or breaks a fighter, is the balance (or lack thereof) between fighters. It's inevitable that some will be better than others, but you'd be playing a complicated game of cat and mouse balancing fighters when players inevitably break the game in ever more novel ways. Then there's the can of worms that is netcode. Yeah, shrinking the scope and salvaging assets you've made is the best course for a solo dev.
It's also way more fun and cathartic to domino a group of mobs in a beatemup. People are also more lenient with jank on a lower stakes game like a beatemup.
It's also way more fun and cathartic to domino a group of mobs in a beatemup. People are also more lenient with jank on a lower stakes game like a beatemup.
yeah, balance is something I've been afraid off, I mean, I feel like I've done okay and put in a lot of fail-safes, but there's always something people will find and I expect that, tweaks would need to be made. It's a lot to keep track of in the small details.
Something more single-player focused might just be fun to go ham with and let all characters do wacky shit (but I'd also make some enemies and bosses plan accordingly, I like challenge)
I'll probs still have some sort of PvP setup in it though, just for fun.
Something more single-player focused might just be fun to go ham with and let all characters do wacky shit (but I'd also make some enemies and bosses plan accordingly, I like challenge)
I'll probs still have some sort of PvP setup in it though, just for fun.
It's not going anywhere it's just going on hiatus. The content I'm shifting to is still going to be in the same engine. I'll be saving the old system to expand on later on down the line. I'm just working smaller for now so I could put something out.
I'm just making copies and reprogramming a few things. Adapting three of my characters to the new system should be very easy I should be able to do it within a couple of days. I have more than enough moves for them to make it work. I just need to script a module for beat'em-up mode. after a bit of testing I can just start making a few enemies a couple of bosses and a prototype build of a couple of levels and maybe a survival mode.
I'm just making copies and reprogramming a few things. Adapting three of my characters to the new system should be very easy I should be able to do it within a couple of days. I have more than enough moves for them to make it work. I just need to script a module for beat'em-up mode. after a bit of testing I can just start making a few enemies a couple of bosses and a prototype build of a couple of levels and maybe a survival mode.
I'm glad you took an introspective look to make this decision, I know it didn't come lightly.
I think your decision is the best for your endeavors with game making, and it's definitely not a loss as you plan on continuing just in a bit of a different way.
Sadly I probly never was going to be a player of the game- especially now, my hands just can't handle a lot of games these days(oddly drawing has no problems, thank gosh cuz I do this for a living) but smash bros, or even mariokart or the battle segments of undertale/deltarune can be too much for my fingers. I really like seeing your characters, your body shapes you gravitate towards, style, and artistic voice is what captured my interest, but I definitely wanna see you progress and succeed in game making! So I wish you the best in this change.
I think your decision is the best for your endeavors with game making, and it's definitely not a loss as you plan on continuing just in a bit of a different way.
Sadly I probly never was going to be a player of the game- especially now, my hands just can't handle a lot of games these days(oddly drawing has no problems, thank gosh cuz I do this for a living) but smash bros, or even mariokart or the battle segments of undertale/deltarune can be too much for my fingers. I really like seeing your characters, your body shapes you gravitate towards, style, and artistic voice is what captured my interest, but I definitely wanna see you progress and succeed in game making! So I wish you the best in this change.
I am considering having a move selection similar to what Streets of Rage 4 did. I'll mess with that a bit more down the line. I intend there to be something like 16 characters as things develop already.
But yeah alt moves is definitely on the table at some point.
But yeah alt moves is definitely on the table at some point.
If you want one of a good Beat 'em Up reference, I'd recommend (but you probably already know it) Dragonball Advanced Adventure.
Genuinely satisfying, smooth, and handhelds are generally good references in scope for solo devs. Don't even have to include all characters at once. You can make multiple games focusing on multiple adventures for each character.
Genuinely satisfying, smooth, and handhelds are generally good references in scope for solo devs. Don't even have to include all characters at once. You can make multiple games focusing on multiple adventures for each character.
I've never been much of a dragon Ball guy so I don't know that game. But yeah I did intend to release the story and characters in Waves or episodes that I slowly just add to the game or something to that effect. So I can just develop it and satisfying enough chunks
Honestly, switching to a more "beat-'em-up centric" game sounds like a good call from how you describe your situation. Especially as a solo dev (I assume) and having to accommodate that into the scope of your project for your own health/mental. Regardless of how niche your game is, you'll end up with an audience both inside and outside of the furry and fighting niches if you release a great quality game. Depending on how you implement some of the fighting game elements, you might even introduce and convert outsiders to the furry and fighting niche. It's surprisingly likely lol
I never comment on FA, but I felt compelled to do so given my interest and the topic at hand.
I agree and support you on your shift in project management but I've got some personal beef with why. You moved your niche fighting game project, to.... A niche beat' em up? I understand one is simpler, but moving your golf post from one weird course to another because the first one is TOO weird is a bit of a stretch.
Especially given that every OTHER game you are now competing with technically are things like kincade (an nsfw metroidvania platformer) and tribal hunter (a semi popular platformer within the community that still has kinks in it). Not mentioning the other games that take up spots too.
I once again do support you on your position, your animation quality makes a simpler game the route to go. I just wished people would be more comfortable with being passionate about being weird and niche.
I agree and support you on your shift in project management but I've got some personal beef with why. You moved your niche fighting game project, to.... A niche beat' em up? I understand one is simpler, but moving your golf post from one weird course to another because the first one is TOO weird is a bit of a stretch.
Especially given that every OTHER game you are now competing with technically are things like kincade (an nsfw metroidvania platformer) and tribal hunter (a semi popular platformer within the community that still has kinks in it). Not mentioning the other games that take up spots too.
I once again do support you on your position, your animation quality makes a simpler game the route to go. I just wished people would be more comfortable with being passionate about being weird and niche.
It's a few factors that made me end up with this shift. Simple game, smaller movesets that are easier for people to do, better single-player experience I think, I can probs tell a better story this way too. I loved my fighting game concept, and I haven't deleted it, just putting it to the side for now so I can make something a bit smaller and more focused for a while. I'm not really concerned with competition, I just want to put some stuff out there I hope at least some people will enjoy. Making a beat'em-up is at least a compromise I can still be passionate about as I've played a few that I've really really enjoyed, and I still play some Streets of Rage 4 to this day with some survival mode runs.
Your mention of competition though kind of puzzled me, because neither of what you mentioned were beat'em-ups... they are platformers.
But yeah, all of this is honestly kind of a struggle. The issue is that it became unsustainable and my time management isn't the best with a full time job and needing to finish some coms. Only so much time in a day. Honestly, my game making desires are too big for me to solo and I don't have the budget to hire help, (I also don't want people to work for me for free, nor do I trust free help), I'm saving for much more important things right now, but I pick at them whenever I can, because I'm passionate.
The animation work is what's killing most of my time spent on this stuff. If it were just up to coding, this shit would be powered through a lot faster. I might have to cut my animation effort down for a while so I can put some things OUT, and maybe improve them later in expansions or something. I don't know. All of this has been a lot to consider as time passes.
Your mention of competition though kind of puzzled me, because neither of what you mentioned were beat'em-ups... they are platformers.
But yeah, all of this is honestly kind of a struggle. The issue is that it became unsustainable and my time management isn't the best with a full time job and needing to finish some coms. Only so much time in a day. Honestly, my game making desires are too big for me to solo and I don't have the budget to hire help, (I also don't want people to work for me for free, nor do I trust free help), I'm saving for much more important things right now, but I pick at them whenever I can, because I'm passionate.
The animation work is what's killing most of my time spent on this stuff. If it were just up to coding, this shit would be powered through a lot faster. I might have to cut my animation effort down for a while so I can put some things OUT, and maybe improve them later in expansions or something. I don't know. All of this has been a lot to consider as time passes.
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