It will always shock me that some people simply do not care unless it happens to them personally.

That sounds like a you problem ngl

That sounds like a you problem ngl

That sounds like a you problem ngl

I guess it's case by case? I don't know, there has been people who crossed boundaries excessively(who'd also claim about being super into keeping boundaries, ironically), who a group of friends and I all distanced ourselves from, and haven't had to see or hear from them since.

There's another person who utterly betrayed me, in his warped sense of doing the right thing by throwing me under the bus, but friends of mine are still friends with him, and tis something I don't mind weirdly enough, but respect that I absolutely want nothing to do with the guy for what he did.

I think it's good to just consider everything in a case-by-case basis. It really just depends! Like, I was betrayed pretty badly by a friend in highschool and my friends were still friends with him and I didn't mind. But in that case the betrayal wasn't out of true maliciousness and was born out of a mistake- it was an incredibly complex situation, I don't think it's good to just completely cut people off or shun people for things like that or have an ultimatum like that towards mutual friends.

But like other cases? Like, lets say a Wyvern A was friends with Dragon B, but then spread a bunch of horrific, horrible rumors that cut Dragon B off from people and presented Dragon B in such a horrible way that it could have genuinely ruined their life if it wasn't stopped. And then the situation was "resolved" but then friends of Dragon B are still friends with Wyvern A. That kinda stuff is just absolutely bonkers to me LOL

i can't believe eval did this i am quadruple blocking him immediately

Make sure you leave a very nasty and hateful shout on his page before you block him!!!! Remember: witch hunting and harassment is totally cool if it's against a wyvern

It's NOT proper blocking unless I leave a smug comment that he can't respond to because I block him instantly after!

(tbh there should be a universal rule that you can't block someone unless they've chatted you last)

You seems to really have a specific beef with Wyverns.

I mean... it's their fault for being inferior...

They are a life support system for a pair of wings

My ex has done this very thing to me :'>

Oog

Okay this is something that actually really, REALLY bothers me about the furry community. Forgive me but I need to go on this tangent.

I've never felt personally hurt by anyone in this community (Primarily because I'm too socially anxious to actually engage with anyone in this community) but I have seen that there's a massive tendency to brush off or in some cases completely ignore somebody's bad actions because they have a cute fursona, or for some other BS reasoning that can easily be debunked.

This naturally extends into the artists of the community as well, ESPECIALLY the NSFW artists, who can draw whatever immoral, illegal crap they want because they already have a big following and they get away with drawing anything as long as it looks good and as long as people are willing to pay for it. And unfortunately, many ARE willing to pay for it, because those people share those same - and FTR I absolutely HATE having to use this word - Problematic kinks.

It often times feels like I'm the only one in the community who's really bothered by this, at least on FurAffinity. Generally whenever I try to speak my mind about these issues on this platform specifically, at least one person will comment saying "Oh, it's all just fantasy! It's not harming anyone in the real world!" Okay, you're technically not wrong, but your kinks are also derived from things that DO harm real people in the real world, and you're putting that very real suffering in NSFW art purely for erotic appeal? Fucking disgusting.

I could go on about this for hours but frankly it's become very tiring for me to rant about.
Just because the furry community is all loving and accepting doesn't mean people shouldn't face consequences for their terrible acts, and it pisses me off how little the community seems to have a widespread, serious discussion about it.
Anyway you get the point. More people need to be talking about this pls and ty.

O.o whoa... I don't really know what particularly you are talking about- makes me glad that I stay away from NSFW lol

Maybe this is wasn't the right place to go on this tangent lol
But yeah both are really really toxic behaviors that really bothers me, not for how often they happen, which is indeed a problem, but for how often they're overlooked.

Hey, the entire point of the comic was to make a general point that people can relate their own experiences to! So, perhaps it is the right place! It's just not something I can particularly comment on since I rarely interact with NSFW spaces- especially not furry nsfw lol.

Oh trust me I'm no stranger to NSFW. I assure you 90% of my most viewed/liked stuff on this platform is NSFW.
But I, for one, don't think subject matter like *nc*st ir r*pe should be fetishized. I've had someone give me the excuse of "I use this fetish art as a means to heal from past trauma!" which maybe works as an EXPLANATION, but if you have potentially hundreds of dollars to spend on commissioned art, can't you afford professional therapy too? Kinda makes me wonder if this kind of "all art should be allowed" mindset is why there are so many zoos in the community.

Okay okay I' you get my point now. Not everyone in the NSFW space is like this, but the amount of people who are kinda disturbs me, that's the point I was trying to make.

Whose Yeetnay? We all gotta block em immediately!

But in all seriousness, I've been through something very similar and it's just disheartening how a lot of people reacted this way. In a sense, it shows how much they actually care about you. So I figure its really best to just cut them out of your life at that point.
Best thing I'd recommend is just to try and move on without those people, it's better for your mental health that way anyways.

Oh my gosh LOL so originally I was going to put in my default John Doe name- "Zephyr Shadowscale". But then I was thinking... what if someone thinks that is actually a real person?! Or what if there is actually someone named Zephyr Shadowscale?! So I decided to make up a random name and do a very bad censor job because it would be really funny for someone to squint to try and read the name and see that lol.

And yeah... I think most people mistake still being friends with someone your friends dislike vs being friends with someone who did something undeniably horrible to your friend. Sometimes two people hurt each other but in a way that isn't really out of maliciousness- I feel like that kinda thing it isn't bad to still be friends/friendly with that kind of person. That is just life. But otherwise? Honestly I think the most valuable friends are those who stick by you

Lol, I don't know if I got it right, I was a bit iffy about about the T for Yeetnay, but the rest was sort of clear. It was fun trying to decipher it though!

Yeah, I can understand the latter when it's just a small thing. I mean, that stuff can happen all the time, especially in bigger groups. But when it comes to something incredibly malicious and with plenty of manipulation, then that's a different story in my eyes.
But yeah, the friends you have at the end are definitely the most valuable, especially after situations like that

depends on if the person changes for the better and shows it. If they say but dont do the action then its not a good look for them.

I always believe in second chances- I've become a person because of it! But I do think that people need to have consequences for their actions- those two concepts aren't mutually exclusive!

My ex-best friend in high school spread a lot of bad rumors about me so I had cut ties with him during... freshman or softmore year. But during the last couple of months of high-school, I had talked with him and he genuinely seemed so remorseful and seemed like he changed so I forgave him and we were chill with each other, even though I would never be friends with him again.

People definitely deserve to have the chance to change

Fair enough. Glad you were able to link up with him again and come to an understanding. But yea i do believe in second chances as well

Kind of hard to generalize this sort of thing.
Its case by case I say.

I know a person who, to my last knowledge, hates me and my guts cause we have different opinions on a specific topic. Do I hate them for that? No, everyone can have different views and opinions, that's called being yourself.
I just hate the false slandering that happens behind my back from that person towards me. Cause I know what they said in detail due to them being friends with my friends.
Do it dislike my friends for interactin with them? Absolutely not. Its not my place to demand of them ending a friendship.
It's their life.

My case is just a mismatch in opinion. Though I can very much understand wanting a friend to stop interacting with somone else that hurt you, depending on the stuff that happened.
As said, really case by case dependent.

Honestly for me almost everything should be taken by a case-by-case basis! It just wouldn't make for a proper comic if I added a "technically xyz" LOL since that wasn't the point of it. Viewing things in black and white, especially in real world relationships, is always a horrible idea.

It really depends on what kind of hurt honestly! I am friends with some people my friends don't like and vise-versa- I think that kind of thing is natural in the world. Some people just don't vibe with each other, and some people have a situatuon with each other which isn't born out of maliciousness but spread and became something bad with each other. I don't really think those kinds of things is something you should rally and be like "omg you have to stop being friends with that person!!!" That kind of thing is actually toxic honestly- I used to have a friend here that did that and I wouldn't listen to her and it wasn't really healthy...

Nah, what I was mainly talking about isn't like... someone being horrible to someone. But more like really, really horrible things. Things that are incredibly malicious and horrible. I guess a similar example would be still being friends with someone who SA'd another friend of yours.

Of course when I made this comic I didn't really expect a grand discourse- probably would have made it more clear otherwise LOL- but it is very interesting to see people's perspectives

slander!

Nuh uh! You are still friends with someone who did something horrible to me; he bought 100 line and didn't like it!

Truly the most evil thing is that no one has stated that they would give Mocha a hug, Mocha deserves all of the hugs!

--

But if to move past the joke of Eval and Wyvern slander, seemingly two of your favourites things and to give my two cents because you stated 'but I love hearing people's thoughts and discussion', first off sadly from what I hear it's not super common but not rare either for this kind of behaviour and type of event, so ultimately it's uncommon in the fandom for this type of thing to happen.

Ultimately...yes it's a case by case basis dependent on the incident in question, how horrid it was and how much time it has been since and if the person that did the horrid thing did anything to make up for it and if they are still the same type of person or not if it's been a prolonged period of time since the incident, and other factors dependent on the situation.

But ultimately, it is always the victim's choice if they even want to attempt a reconnection, it's not up to the victim to 'move on', if Eval really said that he might end up nibbled on like the pookie he is for being callous, if it ended with ''Is it possible that they have changed and are not that kind of person anymore?" it would be more acceptable.

But ultimately what should really happen is an apology from the person that did the other harm, and it's more than just saying 'I'm sorry', that's just the start.

1. I'm sorry.
2. Why I'm sorry (It hurt you deeply, I was wrong to do this, I regret doing this and what I'll endeavour do to in future make sure it doesn't happen again.)
3. Offer of repair: an action to make up for it, it could be something directly related to it like writing a journal publicly stating the above if it caused reputational damage, or more private if preferred or simply due to it being a more personal matter, in a way this is the 'receive consequences' bit, but the focus is to mend, not cause more hurt and suffering, though 'what I'll endeavour do to in future make sure it doesn't happen again' could also be the Offer of repair in itself.

So for an example let's go with the utterly shocking situation where Aspen was cuddled and licked by Moona, if you brought this up as something that truly hurt you and Venus agrees that this was a step too far and worthy of an apology, it could go something like this.

1. I'm sorry.
2. I didn't know that you felt like this was a betrayal of our relationship and I hurt you because of it, I should have talked with you before this happened to understand your thoughts and feelings about things of this nature, I never meant to harm you and I regret having done both this and also the hurt I caused you, I'll earnestly in future do my best to talk with you about things like this going forward so I understand how you feel about it and what is acceptable in our relationship and what's too far.
3. If you like I can make a journal explaining the situation and saying I'm sorry publicly if that helps...and I know you like it when people appreciate your sketches, how about I colour in one of those sketches you did for me and show it in the gallery? Or you can suggest something and if we both agree to it I can do that for you to truly show that I'm sorry.

And then, and the true final part, is that you give the person that was the victim space, you don't get to force or demand an acceptance of the apology because you're putting in effort to mend it, ultimately it's up to them to decide, you might get your apology accepted or maybe you don't, either way you learn from it and only then for better or worse move on.

--

...But seriously why did no one offer Mocha a hug!?! Would you like a hug Mocha?

The real reason why Eval is so evil is because he didn't give Mocha a hug! She's so cute and sad... how could you not?!

And honestly this is like another paragraph on it's own, but I always think there is a difference between wanting someone who did something horrible to a friend to change/allowing them to change and like... still sticking with a friend. Like, hypothetically lets say my friend Person A bullied my friend Person B. (It's getting harder to make up unique examples of this per comment lol) If I found out, I would immediately stop being friends with Person A! But it's not like I would want Person A isolated and completely shut out from everything, I would want and wish for Person A to change. And I do believe that people can change- if Person A grows and becomes a better person that would be absolutely amazing and would be the goal! But trauma usually sticks with a person- I can't imagine hanging out with someone that Person B might still be intensively affected by. I probably would wish Person A well but I don't think I could ever be friends with them/hang with them until Person B can forgive them or feels well seeing their friends with them... and if they all forgive each other, that is the best possible solution! Honestly that really is the ideal- a moment where everyone has changed and the victim has healed and maybe things are ok!

But sometimes that doesn't really happen and the Person A doesn't feel bad at all and everyone just moves on except Person B. Sometimes, friends with Person B who know about Person A still hang out with Person A even immediately after the event, and that is just something I personally can't understand

And that's true in that things getting patched up doesn't really happen often because honest self-examination, growing, changing and making up for past mistakes is so much more time and effort than just ignoring it/walking away from a situation, as such it's more common that people don't patch things up.

As for why Person C would hang with A even though they hurt B...well, that's basically asking why would people stick with other people that do bad things and that's sadly been a thing people make some reasons and even more excuses for, for better or worse throughout the world and throughout all of history since people have been people.

But to try to boil it down, it comes down to Person C benefiting from Person A more than their morals are being pushed against in regards to what happened to Person B, or at very, very least Person C believes that they are benefiting, or believes that they have less bad things happen if they stay.

To pull it back down to the fandom since that's the most common example in the comments, and use the characters in the art above, let's pretend in another, darker universe that there is Not So Nice Ryukiri as A (gasp!), and they are the only artist that does non-wyvern dragons and also the only one that does furry dragons and yet Ryukiri insulted Mocha (B) by calling them a fur-less wyvern, but Eval © still hangs out with Ryukiri.

Why does Eval do this? Well Eval could honestly not believe Mocha that Not So Nice Ryukiri would do something like that or that they were kidding, after all Not So Nice Ryukiri makes fun of Eval for being a furless wyvern all the time but they never mean it truly in a bad way...right?

Now let's make it utterly unambiguous, let’s have Not So Nice Ryukiri literally announced across the fandom that they don't like Mocha and they are being 100% sincere about their dislike/hatred of Mocha and they don't feel bad at all about it, and yet Eval still stays friends with Not So Nice Ryukiri still, why? Enter in excuses and reasons...while Eval is getting some sort of benefit, be it large or small and the benefit could be real or imagined.

Eval could think that they can change Not So Nice Ryukiri's attitude by being a positive influence around them, and if he leaves then his positive influence on Not So Nice Ryukiri is gone...so he should stay, right?
Not So Nice Ryukiri could be drawing art of Eval, which Eval likes and appreciates but which would stop if he left.
Eval could feel that he has influence on what Not So Nice Ryukiri draws, which could be honestly true, or a bit but not much, or literally not at all, but Eval thinking he does feels like a reason to stay.
As hinted before, maybe Not So Nice Ryukiri is the only one they know that does a particular thing they like (art of furred non-wyverns), and stays because of that.
"I just like their art, not who they are as a person."
Maybe they feel a stronger friendship with Not So Nice Ryukiri over Mocha and simply is choosing one over the other but doesn't admit it since stating they are picking favourites would affect what friendship Eval does have with Mocha.
Maybe the thought of picking sides at all in itself feels like more stress than the drama from the situation itself for Eval, so Eval say nothing, make no choice, take no action and hope it blows over.
Not So Nice Ryukiri might have a reputation of being mean to those that leave their friend circle, and as such Eval wants to prevent being a target.
Eval might secretly like non-wyvern and furred dragons which only Not So Nice Ryukiri draws but doesn't want to admit.
Maybe bullying is how Not So Nice Ryukiri flirts and the more over the top they are the more they mean it.

Due to believing that he is benefiting, Eval asks Mocha to move on from the incident...because if they did it means that he could have his cake and eat it too, he can be friends with both if one just gets over it, regardless of the how or how unfair that is to ask.

And those are just excuses and reasons I came up with off the top of my head.

But ultimately if it really was that bad and Eval doesn't gain anything out of staying or at least doesn’t lose enough out of leaving compared to his morals, then he would support Mocha and not hang out with the one that hurt them.

Oh, yeah, this is an absolute mood.
There's a lot of toxic behavior in the furry fandom. Lots of people having really dark behavior with others, gaslighting, abuses, even just jealousy and badmouthing can have a huge impact sometimes...
Sometimes just the lewd stuff being so omnipresent that people tend to have troubles putting limits to it, up to some bad points too...
And due to that, there's lots of people that just want to avoid "drama" and decide they're just gonna be "neutral" about everything, which doesn't really help either... but it sure is a hard situation...
I really hope i never was like that, and that i won't fall into this in the future... when you're close with someone, it can be so hard to accept they did some really bad stuff sometimes.

But yeahhh, need to give you, and mocha, all needed hugs !! And all people in this situation too

like you said in the previous comments, it's not correct to ask for ultimatums or to forcibly fracture your friend group, but if what happened to you was objectively horrible and traumatizing, then the real ones will do what needs to be done - unsolicited. your other friends may remain friends, sure, but you now know where you stand relative to their other values, whether it's keeping the peace, maintaining friends with the other person who wronged you, etc. whether you have the appetite to tolerate that is up to you, as actions say more than their words could ever mean.

the only hope, really, is to be blessed with enough real ones so that you don't feel completely burned when push comes to shove. but at the same time, you usually don't find out who the real ones are until stuff like this comes up.

I understand that all too well. I have a friend who still friend with someone who was horrible to me and a bunch of other mutual friends. "They are still nice to me."

It's only really happened to me once in uni. Where we had 2 friends and one always seemed to try and act superior to the other simply due to the degree she was studying. It was only after about 2 years of this when the (condescending) one was called out and it drew a rift down between the too and people started taking sides. The details was they were taking the side of the friend who had been essentially bullied.

When I found out the minor details I tried to keep the peace, but when I was told the full details from people I trust. It was honestly despicable in the type of constant jabs and nasty things she did to the (good) friend. It was then I also cut off ties because for me. It was purely mean and malicious, to which was unworthy of being my friend. Especially against (good) friend who I had become really close too. That an the "sorrys" I heard felt as fake a C grade drama student.

It comes to a point of understanding what has happened, and your relative closeness to each of them really. That and understanding what qualities you want in your friend and the evidence supporting it.

So yeah, it's tough and it evolved over 1-2 years for context.

In the end, I think Eval should totally be punished and made to beg for forgiveness.