FA+
Shop
702
Views
Views
20
Favorites
Favorites
Category
Photography / Animal related (non-anthro)
Species Rat
Size 1280 x 960
File Size 184 kB
Report this content
More from Ziggy
One of 21 rats that were rescued from being snake food.
14 of this little boy's siblings had already gone to this fate.
This lad is barely old enough to be away from mum, we estimate 4 weeks-ish.
Pics don't do justice to how tiny he is; he weighs 51 grams.
All the babies are not only too young, they're under-nourished and their bones show.
These rats were going to be sold to be either fed live, or killed by the buyer.
I hate to think what has happened/is happening to the ones who didn't make it.
I just have to focus on the ones we could save.
This lad, and the other I took on, will have wonderful lives now and get the love al rats SHOULD have.
14 of this little boy's siblings had already gone to this fate.
This lad is barely old enough to be away from mum, we estimate 4 weeks-ish.
Pics don't do justice to how tiny he is; he weighs 51 grams.
All the babies are not only too young, they're under-nourished and their bones show.
These rats were going to be sold to be either fed live, or killed by the buyer.
I hate to think what has happened/is happening to the ones who didn't make it.
I just have to focus on the ones we could save.
This lad, and the other I took on, will have wonderful lives now and get the love al rats SHOULD have.
Category Photography / Animal related (non-anthro)
Species Rat
Size 1280 x 960px
File Size 184 kB
I don't get it?
All I care about is that these rats are now safe, and doing my best to make sure any others in his situation are removed wherever I can. Im really not up for a debate about domestication or snake husbandry. My only concern is my lads living good lives now.
All I care about is that these rats are now safe, and doing my best to make sure any others in his situation are removed wherever I can. Im really not up for a debate about domestication or snake husbandry. My only concern is my lads living good lives now.
To be honest... Those rats weren't going to make it for that long either. Just like feeder goldfish. Those rats tend to be prone to virus's, along with genetic defects. They've been bread so far that even if placed back in the wild they more or less would have died. And to be fair.. Snakes need love too. If a snake can't eat another creature than it's going to die... It's not fair on the snake in all reality. However if the rat was unnourished and it's bones were showing, I probably wouldn't want to feed it to my snake. As they say... You are what you eat.
And another thing... It's healthier for the snake to eat living prey than it is frozen. It's like catching tuna fish straight from the sea, or eating tuna fish which has been in a can for who knows...
And another thing... It's healthier for the snake to eat living prey than it is frozen. It's like catching tuna fish straight from the sea, or eating tuna fish which has been in a can for who knows...
I don't think anyone would ever propose putting a domestic rat 'back into the wild'. Even a fat, healthy adult rat that is used to being in captivity will die if released. I would never, ever recommend this is done. Im not sure why you mentioned it or why thats relevant?
To be honest, I don't give a shit if snakes need love, thats not my concern here; my concern is I have saved this babies life.
If you wanna talk about snakes, go talk to a snake lover, not a rat rescuer :/
It is NOT healthier for a snake to eat live prey; its extremely dangerous to the snake, and utterly inhumane to the rat. Its illegal here for a reason, and our snakes do fine. Please don't spout that ignorant shit on my page. Any intelligent, intelligent snake owner would denounce live food.
Please don't come onto a photo of a rat I have saved from a horrendous death and start suggesting his rescue was in ANY way wrong, or that what happened to his siblings and continues to happen to rats daily is right.
To be honest, I don't give a shit if snakes need love, thats not my concern here; my concern is I have saved this babies life.
If you wanna talk about snakes, go talk to a snake lover, not a rat rescuer :/
It is NOT healthier for a snake to eat live prey; its extremely dangerous to the snake, and utterly inhumane to the rat. Its illegal here for a reason, and our snakes do fine. Please don't spout that ignorant shit on my page. Any intelligent, intelligent snake owner would denounce live food.
Please don't come onto a photo of a rat I have saved from a horrendous death and start suggesting his rescue was in ANY way wrong, or that what happened to his siblings and continues to happen to rats daily is right.
actually that is very untrue. It is much healthier for a snake to feed frozen because it is way less dangerous. And if you want to get technical, it's healthier to feed your rats fetal pigs than it is rats. but anyway- the point here really is that the rat was saved and many others too from what seems to be very horrible conditions, not weather or not it is ok to have a pet snake and feed it rats. My friend breeds a few rats to feed his own snakes, too, but he doesn't maltreat them in any sense, and finds pet-homes for the rest instead of allowing them to die slow painful deaths like in this instance.
I agree. If it were healthier to eat live meat, Im assuming Jakal eats all their food live too and never buys any frozen or packaged food
And you make a very good point: regardless what people's views are on this, the fact is that even if someone does want to kill rats to feed their snake, there is NO excuse for not keeping them in good conditions. These babies are malnourished and very underweight, and all the rats from the rescue were the same. Some were even smaller than this one.
And you make a very good point: regardless what people's views are on this, the fact is that even if someone does want to kill rats to feed their snake, there is NO excuse for not keeping them in good conditions. These babies are malnourished and very underweight, and all the rats from the rescue were the same. Some were even smaller than this one.
Actually, if you place a group of lab/pet rats into a wild setting they CAN revert.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d.....003&hl=en#
Can is keyword here. Do I suggest it? FUCK NO.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d.....003&hl=en#
Can is keyword here. Do I suggest it? FUCK NO.
ooohhhhh good example with the fish
I will catch you a fresh tuna. I expect you to eat it while it's still flipping around.
It's only natural for you to do so.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.....x-TunaFish.JPG
Don't ask me how you're going to manage eating that live... but whatever. It's better to be natural and eat it while it's still kicking
I will catch you a fresh tuna. I expect you to eat it while it's still flipping around.
It's only natural for you to do so.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.....x-TunaFish.JPG
Don't ask me how you're going to manage eating that live... but whatever. It's better to be natural and eat it while it's still kicking
Those ears...He's adorable.
and, while I know pet snakes and lizards need to eat....I despise people who feed live. Not only is it cruel to the poor little rat who has nowhere to hide....but a big enough rat can do some serious damage to a snake when cornered.
This little guy is going to have such a happy life now. :3
and, while I know pet snakes and lizards need to eat....I despise people who feed live. Not only is it cruel to the poor little rat who has nowhere to hide....but a big enough rat can do some serious damage to a snake when cornered.
This little guy is going to have such a happy life now. :3
Oh for fucks sake......
You know, not everyone who murders rats 'freezes them alive'. The most common and most humane way is very slowly introduced co2. Its not perfect, but done very gradually, and properly, it is far MORE humane. And thats how most responsible snake owners kill them. But I don't know why I'd expect you to know anything about responsible snake ownership.
You know, not everyone who murders rats 'freezes them alive'. The most common and most humane way is very slowly introduced co2. Its not perfect, but done very gradually, and properly, it is far MORE humane. And thats how most responsible snake owners kill them. But I don't know why I'd expect you to know anything about responsible snake ownership.
Of course it is! And if you knew anything about me, you'd know that I disagree with ANY unecessary killing of rats.
Killing them before feeding them to a snake is still not something I agree with BUT it is the lesser of two evils.
Im not stupid, I know snake owners aren't going away any time soon, so I have to be realistic. If people ARE going to keep snakes, it is better that they feed them rats that are pre-killed, and done so as HUMANELY as possible.
Think of me like a vegan. The ultimate aim of a vegan would be for no-one ever to eat meat again. But most of them are realistic enough to know that won't ever happen, so they reccomend people buy organic, free range, humanely reared and killed meat.
It doesn't mean they agree with the meat industry in any way, they're just being realistic and realising that people will always eat meat, so far better for it to be done as kindly as possible.
Thats my stance.
In my ideal world, no rats would ever die for human convinience. But this isn't an ideal world, and they will.
So if this MUST happen, far better for it to be done in the most humane way.
And the most humane way to kill a rat at home is by very slowly, carefully introduced co2.
And even this isn't perfect, hence why I hate the whole snake owning thing, because there is no truely humane way to kill a rat OTHER than at the vets, and obviously you can't then feed that rat to a snake.
Yeah, its still shit, and I still hate it, but its better than the alternative.
And those who breed rats for killing have NO excuse not to use this method, other than laziness and generally being moronic cunts :)
Killing them before feeding them to a snake is still not something I agree with BUT it is the lesser of two evils.
Im not stupid, I know snake owners aren't going away any time soon, so I have to be realistic. If people ARE going to keep snakes, it is better that they feed them rats that are pre-killed, and done so as HUMANELY as possible.
Think of me like a vegan. The ultimate aim of a vegan would be for no-one ever to eat meat again. But most of them are realistic enough to know that won't ever happen, so they reccomend people buy organic, free range, humanely reared and killed meat.
It doesn't mean they agree with the meat industry in any way, they're just being realistic and realising that people will always eat meat, so far better for it to be done as kindly as possible.
Thats my stance.
In my ideal world, no rats would ever die for human convinience. But this isn't an ideal world, and they will.
So if this MUST happen, far better for it to be done in the most humane way.
And the most humane way to kill a rat at home is by very slowly, carefully introduced co2.
And even this isn't perfect, hence why I hate the whole snake owning thing, because there is no truely humane way to kill a rat OTHER than at the vets, and obviously you can't then feed that rat to a snake.
Yeah, its still shit, and I still hate it, but its better than the alternative.
And those who breed rats for killing have NO excuse not to use this method, other than laziness and generally being moronic cunts :)
You talk about this cruelty of pre-killed rats as if thats how its always done, rather than recognising that those who treat their rats badly aren't representative of everyone. And yet you get pissed if I lump all live feeders into a category yet you're happy to do it to all those who feed pre-killed?
Believe it or not, I actually have friends who are snake owners. No live feeders, since I wouldn't associate with such psychos, but people who keep and breed their own rats to feed their snakes.
They keep them in good conditions, big cages, toys, well cared for, then when they kill them, they do it via the very slowly introduced co2 method I talked about before.
Im sure they'd love to know you're generalising them all.
As with anything on earth, its up to the consumer to buy from ethical sources if they care. Your idea of 'the market that treats them the worst' is just bullshit; you think live feeders don't treat their rats like crap too? Look up at the pic in this submission again and rethink.
Both parties can raise their rats in awful conditions.
But at least those feeding and raising pre-killed aren't torturing an animal when its time comes.
You're just desperately trying to justify your insistence on feeding live, which you KNOW is wrong, and you KNOW is unnecessary. Well, take it elsewhere. I don't give a shit about your views on anything. You're a live feeder, so to me, you're scum.
You expect me to be nice to you when you do something so unnecessary and cruel? Out of interest, do you expect parents to be best buddies with pedos, as long as they're nice people?
What you do is abhorrent. That makes you abhorrent. I hope you have a heart attack, or get eaten by a huge predator in a situation where you can't escape. Let me know how humane that was for you.
Believe it or not, I actually have friends who are snake owners. No live feeders, since I wouldn't associate with such psychos, but people who keep and breed their own rats to feed their snakes.
They keep them in good conditions, big cages, toys, well cared for, then when they kill them, they do it via the very slowly introduced co2 method I talked about before.
Im sure they'd love to know you're generalising them all.
As with anything on earth, its up to the consumer to buy from ethical sources if they care. Your idea of 'the market that treats them the worst' is just bullshit; you think live feeders don't treat their rats like crap too? Look up at the pic in this submission again and rethink.
Both parties can raise their rats in awful conditions.
But at least those feeding and raising pre-killed aren't torturing an animal when its time comes.
You're just desperately trying to justify your insistence on feeding live, which you KNOW is wrong, and you KNOW is unnecessary. Well, take it elsewhere. I don't give a shit about your views on anything. You're a live feeder, so to me, you're scum.
You expect me to be nice to you when you do something so unnecessary and cruel? Out of interest, do you expect parents to be best buddies with pedos, as long as they're nice people?
What you do is abhorrent. That makes you abhorrent. I hope you have a heart attack, or get eaten by a huge predator in a situation where you can't escape. Let me know how humane that was for you.
I didn't only save them from a horrible lifestyle, I saved them from a horrible death either via being live fed, even though its illegal here, or being killed horribly.
I don't want to hear about your animal abuse, to be honest, not on my pics.
Live feeding is disgusting and if you're even capable of doing that, you have something integral missing in your personality and I don't really wish to interact with you.
I look at my little boy and I think 'thank god we got you out' then someone like YOU is the very person who is performing the cruelty I saved my babies from. YOU are the issue here and YOU are the kind of person who has already taken his siblings and thrown them in live with a snake.
Yes, he was starved and such before hand, which Im sure you don't do, but you DO throw these innocent little animals in to their death and watch it. Could you watch this boy terrified in a snake tank then slowly suffocated?
I suspect you happily could. In which case, go fuck yourself.
I don't care if you're the nicest person in the world outside of the snake feeding issue, I don't want you here. You're an animal abuser to me.
I don't want to hear about your animal abuse, to be honest, not on my pics.
Live feeding is disgusting and if you're even capable of doing that, you have something integral missing in your personality and I don't really wish to interact with you.
I look at my little boy and I think 'thank god we got you out' then someone like YOU is the very person who is performing the cruelty I saved my babies from. YOU are the issue here and YOU are the kind of person who has already taken his siblings and thrown them in live with a snake.
Yes, he was starved and such before hand, which Im sure you don't do, but you DO throw these innocent little animals in to their death and watch it. Could you watch this boy terrified in a snake tank then slowly suffocated?
I suspect you happily could. In which case, go fuck yourself.
I don't care if you're the nicest person in the world outside of the snake feeding issue, I don't want you here. You're an animal abuser to me.
Oh for fucks sake. THEY'RE JUST SNAKES!
No, I don't really feel that way. I just wanted to see what it felt like saying it. And I felt like a total moron.
Ya know...I think ill start feeding baby kittens to snakes. They might like it. I might start breeding baby snakes for my rats to eat...rats can eat hamsters and bird too. Fun. And Im sorry, but if your snake wont take frozen then youre doing something wrong. Take it to a vet. Something is wrong, conditions somewhere are wrong. Im starting to wonder if these snakes are wild caught. Cause thats one reason theyll only eat live. =/
No, I don't really feel that way. I just wanted to see what it felt like saying it. And I felt like a total moron.
Ya know...I think ill start feeding baby kittens to snakes. They might like it. I might start breeding baby snakes for my rats to eat...rats can eat hamsters and bird too. Fun. And Im sorry, but if your snake wont take frozen then youre doing something wrong. Take it to a vet. Something is wrong, conditions somewhere are wrong. Im starting to wonder if these snakes are wild caught. Cause thats one reason theyll only eat live. =/
Well we got ours from the pet store a long time ago.
And yeah, they are just snakes...idk what point you were tryieto makr with that statement. I love ny snakes but if for some reason if i had to survive and it was a life or death situation for me, and i had the snakes, i would eat them. Same with a dog or any other animal. I wouldn't want to by any neans but if it came down to it i would. Because we are higher in the food chain. All that being said, im not going to eat ours or anyone elses pets. Lol
And yeah, they are just snakes...idk what point you were tryieto makr with that statement. I love ny snakes but if for some reason if i had to survive and it was a life or death situation for me, and i had the snakes, i would eat them. Same with a dog or any other animal. I wouldn't want to by any neans but if it came down to it i would. Because we are higher in the food chain. All that being said, im not going to eat ours or anyone elses pets. Lol
EW, seriously. You're disgusting and you're never allowed around my dogs, cat, tarantula, rats, or fish.
holyfucksomuchdumb.
If you'd really degrade yourself down to eating your own pets-- wtf. I'd rather starve to death and die a slow horrible agony than cook my cat or dog. You're a sick, sick fuck.
And don't give me the excuse that people in other countries eat cats and dogs. I'm aware of that. But you know what? That's been a long-standing part of their culture and I can live with that. Seriously oh my god.
holyfucksomuchdumb.
If you'd really degrade yourself down to eating your own pets-- wtf. I'd rather starve to death and die a slow horrible agony than cook my cat or dog. You're a sick, sick fuck.
And don't give me the excuse that people in other countries eat cats and dogs. I'm aware of that. But you know what? That's been a long-standing part of their culture and I can live with that. Seriously oh my god.
Nope. I'd rather starve to death. I really would.
What happens after you just betrayed your loving pets and you ate them? Okay cool. You're hungry again in an hour and you're the most fucked up person ever.
Dear Christ I am so glad I grew up in the country and I know how to fucking find and kill my own food the proper way.
What happens after you just betrayed your loving pets and you ate them? Okay cool. You're hungry again in an hour and you're the most fucked up person ever.
Dear Christ I am so glad I grew up in the country and I know how to fucking find and kill my own food the proper way.
But you just ate your dog so they can't help you hunt.
IN WHAT SITUATION WOULD THERE BE NOTHING ELSE TO EAT BUT YOUR HOUSEPETS I DON'T EVEN.
Also lol you must be from the city because any competent hunter can track without a dog.
That being said:
Dogs are for tracking, baying, and retrieving. Not the actual killing part.
IN WHAT SITUATION WOULD THERE BE NOTHING ELSE TO EAT BUT YOUR HOUSEPETS I DON'T EVEN.
Also lol you must be from the city because any competent hunter can track without a dog.
That being said:
Dogs are for tracking, baying, and retrieving. Not the actual killing part.
In the wild, snakes don't eat ONLY rats. They will eat any small animal, including lizards, frogs, birds, bats, and even larger mammals such as baby wildcats. Therefore it's equally "natural" to feed rabbits and kittens to your snake...oh boo-hoo, but those animals are "cute" in the eyes of the general population, so it's out of the question to feed it to a snake, right? Yet who made up the rules of what's "cute" or not? Humans. NOT nature.
I have no issue with what snakes do in the wild.
I have an issue with what happens when stupid humans think they can re-create that in their homes. Snakes do not NEED to eat live, its totally unecessary. But hey, keep talking, you just make yourself look more of an idiot with each post you make, hence why I will not block you :)
People deserve to see your stupidity, Im not gonna censor you.
I have an issue with what happens when stupid humans think they can re-create that in their homes. Snakes do not NEED to eat live, its totally unecessary. But hey, keep talking, you just make yourself look more of an idiot with each post you make, hence why I will not block you :)
People deserve to see your stupidity, Im not gonna censor you.
the food chain does not exist in your apartment or house. and using that as an excuse to torture a living creature is just pathetic. people who feed their snakes live prey are psychos who get some sick fascination out of watching a tiny helpless creature be killed. PERIOD.
You, as a human are at the very top of the food chain. It is 100% natural for snakes to eat live food.
I challenge you to eating a tuna fish live, it's only natural
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.....x-TunaFish.JPG
I hope you accept my challenge.
I challenge you to eating a tuna fish live, it's only natural
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.....x-TunaFish.JPG
I hope you accept my challenge.
I'm not taking sides here, (even feeds should be well cared for) But the snakes have to eat to, and unlike some other captive cold blooded critter's you cant feed them something like CGD or bugs or well stake (-o- yes I'm using my breaded dragons and Crested geckos as examples no I don't give them stake) It would be nice if they had a non rat diet ( I have trouble feeding mine the bugs I feel so bad for the little things but the need the bugs to stay healthy a life for a life that's the food chain everything hast to kill to live) Glad you saved them, I couldn't kill one of them I'd just cry, but then I'm not a snake my food comes already dead.
snakes can eat frozen mice and rats. people claim that 'my snake won't eat frozen rats' but that's bullshit. they plop the frozen rat into the terrarium with the snake; of course he's going to ignore it. it needs to be warmed and wiggled around a bit because the snake won't give two shits otherwise.
And you think this is an appropriate thing to bring up on this particular picture?
What makes you think I want to hear your shit about feeding live rats to snakes on a pic of a baby I have that Im constantly worried isn't even going to make it?
I was up most of last night shit-scared about him dying and desperately trying to get him to eat, all because of cunts like you who think live feeding is totally cool.
Go argue your snake shit someone where. This is NOT the right place.
What makes you think I want to hear your shit about feeding live rats to snakes on a pic of a baby I have that Im constantly worried isn't even going to make it?
I was up most of last night shit-scared about him dying and desperately trying to get him to eat, all because of cunts like you who think live feeding is totally cool.
Go argue your snake shit someone where. This is NOT the right place.
Added to which, if snakes here can survive on pre-killed, why can't the snakes in your country? If zoos and wildlife parks here can feed their snakes perfectly well on pre-killed, why can't you? If every college and animal centre I've been to and studied at has fed their snake pre-killed, why can't you?
I honestly think snakes could live far enough North up until the point where Winter is brutal.
But also by confirming that there IS a snake problem in Florida, you null your comment about snakes not being able to survive out in the wild after they've been in captivity.
If they can stay warm in the colder months, they'll do just fine.
But also by confirming that there IS a snake problem in Florida, you null your comment about snakes not being able to survive out in the wild after they've been in captivity.
If they can stay warm in the colder months, they'll do just fine.
...wat.
I've had plenty of snakes come 'round myself, my family, and my pets.
Snakes aren't THAT paranoid of people. Especially not big ones who know where they stand on the food chain and are fat and lazy from eating native species.
I can go outside and pick a wild snake up and handle it with relative ease. I've done it with several native species, including ring necks, grass snakes, and these other small ones who's name escapes me right now.
If small insect eating snakes aren't going to run in terror I doubt a large constrictor will. :U In fact, I've seen it. It's called Animal Planet.
I've had plenty of snakes come 'round myself, my family, and my pets.
Snakes aren't THAT paranoid of people. Especially not big ones who know where they stand on the food chain and are fat and lazy from eating native species.
I can go outside and pick a wild snake up and handle it with relative ease. I've done it with several native species, including ring necks, grass snakes, and these other small ones who's name escapes me right now.
If small insect eating snakes aren't going to run in terror I doubt a large constrictor will. :U In fact, I've seen it. It's called Animal Planet.
Ahahaha.
Really. The idiocy of some people is almost laughable.
Because my dogs, rats and cat totally try to eat me on a regular basis. WELL MAYBE MY CAT BECAUSE SHE'S TWISTED.
but loooolololol apparently they're from another place where domestication actually means wild.
My spider will bite because he's NOT domesticated. I hope the other party is seeing the pattern here.
Really. The idiocy of some people is almost laughable.
Because my dogs, rats and cat totally try to eat me on a regular basis. WELL MAYBE MY CAT BECAUSE SHE'S TWISTED.
but loooolololol apparently they're from another place where domestication actually means wild.
My spider will bite because he's NOT domesticated. I hope the other party is seeing the pattern here.
STOP IT.
I don't want to hear this shit. I don't CARE about hearing about your snakes eating habits on a picture of my baby who was rescued from that exact fate! Where is your tact? Where are your social skills?
Would you go on a picture of a puppy someone had saved from a dog fighting ring and say 'well, Im happy you saved this boy but I dog fight and I do it properly and look after my dogs!'
Keep it to yourself. I don't care.
I don't want to hear this shit. I don't CARE about hearing about your snakes eating habits on a picture of my baby who was rescued from that exact fate! Where is your tact? Where are your social skills?
Would you go on a picture of a puppy someone had saved from a dog fighting ring and say 'well, Im happy you saved this boy but I dog fight and I do it properly and look after my dogs!'
Keep it to yourself. I don't care.
Is owning a snake not for 'selfish human reasons'? You wanted a snake as a pet, for your benefit, and now rats are tortured on a regular basis just to cater to your selfish desire to own a snake, and your lazy attitude to actually working to get it to take pre-killed.
I see no difference.
Again, I did not present 'one side' I merely presented the facts: here is a starved baby rat that is too young to even be away from its mum, and its because of fucktard snake owners.
Thats just a fact.
I did not post this pic for you to come raging in here telling me how great live feeding was. Have some fucking respect or else just shut the hell up.
Im going through hell with this baby and the last thing I need is your bullshit.
When I next open a debate about live feeding, you are perfectly welcome to contribute. This is not that. This is me posting a pic of my new baby and you being a dumb motherfucker and thinking ANYONE wants to hear your live feeding shit in this particular instance.
I see no difference.
Again, I did not present 'one side' I merely presented the facts: here is a starved baby rat that is too young to even be away from its mum, and its because of fucktard snake owners.
Thats just a fact.
I did not post this pic for you to come raging in here telling me how great live feeding was. Have some fucking respect or else just shut the hell up.
Im going through hell with this baby and the last thing I need is your bullshit.
When I next open a debate about live feeding, you are perfectly welcome to contribute. This is not that. This is me posting a pic of my new baby and you being a dumb motherfucker and thinking ANYONE wants to hear your live feeding shit in this particular instance.
She's asked you two or three times to stop and leave her page/comments alone. You're being very rude. Why not just drop it as you are clearly upsetting her.
and I saw your photo of your 'pet rat'. I read the description. I hate to be the one to inform you, but 6 rats is not alot of rats. I currently have 18. No rat owner that LOVES their rats can go look at a pet rat and interact with it and then turn around and feed another live one to a snake.
Anyhow, please just leave Ziggy alone. Im asking nicely.
and I saw your photo of your 'pet rat'. I read the description. I hate to be the one to inform you, but 6 rats is not alot of rats. I currently have 18. No rat owner that LOVES their rats can go look at a pet rat and interact with it and then turn around and feed another live one to a snake.
Anyhow, please just leave Ziggy alone. Im asking nicely.
You must not have had too much rat experience because....rats are not suppose to be kept alone. And if that makes them nicer then I must be doing something wrong because all of mine have had cage mates and Ive only had two or three bitey ones. Everyone else complete and utter sweethearts who were very closely bonded with their buddies and I've owned a grand total of 100 rats in 13+ years. So. Im not arguing this point, but when it comes to rats I think by now I know what Im talking about.
You should NEVER keep a rat alone. Ever.
Thats another notch in your bed-post of 'rat abuse' isn't it? If you knew fuck all about these animals, you'd know they are depressed, sickly and mentally traumatised when kept alone. Its like keeping a human in solitary confinement.
I have 50 rats. I don't have 'zillions of rat cages'. I do have devotion and knowledge, though, which makes keeping 50 pretty easy. Perhaps try to get some of those qualities?
It feels like attacks are getting thrown at me, I'm going to continue putting my two sence in.
Not if I block you.
Im only letting you continue on now because you're doing me a favour: you're showing how stupid live feeders are, just by your own posts. I don't have to do it, you're all the proof anyone needs.
Thats another notch in your bed-post of 'rat abuse' isn't it? If you knew fuck all about these animals, you'd know they are depressed, sickly and mentally traumatised when kept alone. Its like keeping a human in solitary confinement.
I have 50 rats. I don't have 'zillions of rat cages'. I do have devotion and knowledge, though, which makes keeping 50 pretty easy. Perhaps try to get some of those qualities?
It feels like attacks are getting thrown at me, I'm going to continue putting my two sence in.
Not if I block you.
Im only letting you continue on now because you're doing me a favour: you're showing how stupid live feeders are, just by your own posts. I don't have to do it, you're all the proof anyone needs.
WRONG.
Keeping a rat alone, even with 'bags of attention' is BAD FOR THEM.
Rats need the company of their own kind. You can give them companionship, sure, but nothing compares to their own kind.
Imagine you lived your entire life with just chimps for company. You'd have some kind of bond, you'd be 'friends' in a way, but nothing would compare to another human, you wouldn't be able to communicate, or interact properly.
This is how it is for rats kept away from other rats. It has been proven they live shorter lives, suffer more stress and are more prone to illness.
Rats in groups play together, groom each other, and communicate. They communicate in the ultrasonic, which you can't even HEAR so what makes you think you can come close to being a substitute?
Do not even try to tell me anything about rats.
You know shit.
I have 15 years of living with these animals 24/7, every single day. I've had almost 200 in my life. I've had a number of rats that have been kept alone, even with bags of attention, and have seen the issues they have.
Rats are stoic; they hide their discomfort and pain. You probably wouldn't even notice. It takes a bit of a skill to recognise a miserable rat.
And I am a rat god, thanks. If you knew even 1% of what I know about rats, you'd know they do NOT need to be kept alone, and they suffer.
Now off you go. Scum :)
Keeping a rat alone, even with 'bags of attention' is BAD FOR THEM.
Rats need the company of their own kind. You can give them companionship, sure, but nothing compares to their own kind.
Imagine you lived your entire life with just chimps for company. You'd have some kind of bond, you'd be 'friends' in a way, but nothing would compare to another human, you wouldn't be able to communicate, or interact properly.
This is how it is for rats kept away from other rats. It has been proven they live shorter lives, suffer more stress and are more prone to illness.
Rats in groups play together, groom each other, and communicate. They communicate in the ultrasonic, which you can't even HEAR so what makes you think you can come close to being a substitute?
Do not even try to tell me anything about rats.
You know shit.
I have 15 years of living with these animals 24/7, every single day. I've had almost 200 in my life. I've had a number of rats that have been kept alone, even with bags of attention, and have seen the issues they have.
Rats are stoic; they hide their discomfort and pain. You probably wouldn't even notice. It takes a bit of a skill to recognise a miserable rat.
And I am a rat god, thanks. If you knew even 1% of what I know about rats, you'd know they do NOT need to be kept alone, and they suffer.
Now off you go. Scum :)
I think it's kinda funny how you keep coming back and each and every one of your comments only... make it worse? Like, youre digging a bigger hole for yourself. You claim you've watched Ziggy for a long time so you should KNOW how she feels about live feeding. It's like youre just asking for it. :c
Your 'arguments' are so hard to take seriously b/c they dont really make any sense. "No rat should be kept in this condition, I'm glad you saved them" and then you comment w/ "I live feed but I'd never feed my snakes rats that were treated like this"...!? After reading your comments it comes off to me that you care more for your snake than you did for the welfare of this rat! And if your snake doesnt touch frozen, the fact that you didnt even mention much methods used, you sounded incredibly lazy in finding alternative methods. I love my rabbits (and all rabbits), and I'd be pretty pissed too if someone came onto a picture I had of them and commented w/ how they like skinning their rabbits alive for their stew. :/ It isnt appropriate and I dont know how you couldnt (and still cant) see that.
Your 'arguments' are so hard to take seriously b/c they dont really make any sense. "No rat should be kept in this condition, I'm glad you saved them" and then you comment w/ "I live feed but I'd never feed my snakes rats that were treated like this"...!? After reading your comments it comes off to me that you care more for your snake than you did for the welfare of this rat! And if your snake doesnt touch frozen, the fact that you didnt even mention much methods used, you sounded incredibly lazy in finding alternative methods. I love my rabbits (and all rabbits), and I'd be pretty pissed too if someone came onto a picture I had of them and commented w/ how they like skinning their rabbits alive for their stew. :/ It isnt appropriate and I dont know how you couldnt (and still cant) see that.
Her gallery is primarily rats. Doesnt that come off from a distance that she might love them? Even if the rat was going to end up as one, you read the description! "I rescued this rat". And just by that sentence alone, it's still not appropriate to bring up how you feed your snakes. That should be like common sense. And if you didnt care about your statements making much sense you wouldnt be constantly coming back trying to defend yourself so hard, as youre doing right now too.
and lol 'shitty food'. Okay! Have a good day!
and lol 'shitty food'. Okay! Have a good day!
No. You're wrong. Even laboratories now keep rats in pairs because they realise how miserable a lone rat becomes.
Just because it happens all the time, that doesn't make it right!
You honestly think keeping a naturally social animal alone is ok? You're even more selfish than I thought.
Would you keep a chimp alone? A meerkat? Social animals belong with others of their species. And sorry, but complete arse gravy about how being alone makes them more social. My rats couldn't BE more social, and I have 50 of them, and not one loner.
Even if that were true, its a disgusting admission that you would deprive an animal of its own kind's company just to make it bond to you more. If you can't get a rat to bond to you while living with its own kind, you're doing something wrong.
Keeping it alone so it is SO desperately bored and lonely that you're its only companion is not true love; its desperation.
If I kept you on your own for your entire life, you'd probably eventually bond with a snail, if it was the only other living thing around.
TRUST ME. I rescue, I frequently get rats in that have been kept alone, and like you, the owner thinks its a-ok. But I can tell the damn thing is neurotic the second I see it. You probably can't recognise depression or anguish in a rat because you are woefully uneducated about them.
But trust me, keep any group living animal alone and it will negatively affect it.
What happens when you're not around either? What about the hours at night when you're asleep, the rats most active period? Lone rats are just tragically sad.
I notice you avoided the part about how its the same as leaving a human in solitary confinement.
Here, read and educate yourself:
http://www.nfrs.org/company.html
http://www.rmca.org/Resources/apair.txt
http://www.ratfanclub.org/single.html
But Im guessing I've wasted my time as you probably won't even read the links.
Just because it happens all the time, that doesn't make it right!
You honestly think keeping a naturally social animal alone is ok? You're even more selfish than I thought.
Would you keep a chimp alone? A meerkat? Social animals belong with others of their species. And sorry, but complete arse gravy about how being alone makes them more social. My rats couldn't BE more social, and I have 50 of them, and not one loner.
Even if that were true, its a disgusting admission that you would deprive an animal of its own kind's company just to make it bond to you more. If you can't get a rat to bond to you while living with its own kind, you're doing something wrong.
Keeping it alone so it is SO desperately bored and lonely that you're its only companion is not true love; its desperation.
If I kept you on your own for your entire life, you'd probably eventually bond with a snail, if it was the only other living thing around.
TRUST ME. I rescue, I frequently get rats in that have been kept alone, and like you, the owner thinks its a-ok. But I can tell the damn thing is neurotic the second I see it. You probably can't recognise depression or anguish in a rat because you are woefully uneducated about them.
But trust me, keep any group living animal alone and it will negatively affect it.
What happens when you're not around either? What about the hours at night when you're asleep, the rats most active period? Lone rats are just tragically sad.
I notice you avoided the part about how its the same as leaving a human in solitary confinement.
Here, read and educate yourself:
http://www.nfrs.org/company.html
http://www.rmca.org/Resources/apair.txt
http://www.ratfanclub.org/single.html
But Im guessing I've wasted my time as you probably won't even read the links.
Jesus christ, why are you so stubborn? Did you even READ the links? EVERYONE with any rat knowledge is telling you they belong in groups. And you are constantly just putting your fingers in your ears and going 'LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU!'
You've yet to present ONE argument or piece of evidence to how being kept alone is good for a rat, whereas I can send you countless links telling of the behavioural problems it causes them.
Would you put a toddler in solitary confinement and then expect it to turn out well adjusted?
Though I don't know why Im surprised. You clearly care more about your own whims than animal welfare, you've demonstrated that time and time again.
Too lazy to put the effort in to get your snake to eat pre-killed, too stubborn and ignorant to keep rats in groups because you prefer them to be desperate and alone so they'll bond to you out of desperation. Lazy, disgusting piece of shit.
Why would I tell you rats need to be kept in groups if it weren't true? What do I stand to gain from making shit up? So ,you're either telling me Im lying, or that you know more about how to keep rats than me. Which is it?
Let me tell you something, living to an old age is NO indication of a rat's well-being.
Did you know that it has been proven that rats actually live LONGER if they're starved and given minimal food? Long life proves nothing except good genetics. And what do you consider a 'ripe old age'?
What made you think your rats were happy when they're missing out on a HUGE chunk of what nature has designed them to do and be.
Would you want to be alone forever?
You've yet to present ONE argument or piece of evidence to how being kept alone is good for a rat, whereas I can send you countless links telling of the behavioural problems it causes them.
Would you put a toddler in solitary confinement and then expect it to turn out well adjusted?
Though I don't know why Im surprised. You clearly care more about your own whims than animal welfare, you've demonstrated that time and time again.
Too lazy to put the effort in to get your snake to eat pre-killed, too stubborn and ignorant to keep rats in groups because you prefer them to be desperate and alone so they'll bond to you out of desperation. Lazy, disgusting piece of shit.
Why would I tell you rats need to be kept in groups if it weren't true? What do I stand to gain from making shit up? So ,you're either telling me Im lying, or that you know more about how to keep rats than me. Which is it?
Let me tell you something, living to an old age is NO indication of a rat's well-being.
Did you know that it has been proven that rats actually live LONGER if they're starved and given minimal food? Long life proves nothing except good genetics. And what do you consider a 'ripe old age'?
What made you think your rats were happy when they're missing out on a HUGE chunk of what nature has designed them to do and be.
Would you want to be alone forever?
You know, when someone like Ziggy (a fucking rat rescuer and a person who owns 32!) links you something on rats, she probably knows what she's talking about. You're a snake owner who happens to own a rat. A solitary rat.
I know you've said your snake doesn't eat prefrozen but I was responsible for the snake that was in our biology lab. It was fed once a week a mouse (since the snake wasn't very large) but these were good sized mice. I put them in a pitcher and turned on the hot water for 15 minutes. Sure the room smelled mousey for next couple of days but it got the mouse above the temperature of a normal mouse (probably a good 150F) which probably made the wiggling it on forceps at the snake a bright spot to the heat sensors on the snake. It never went hungry. Never ignored its food. Only had to drop the food into the cage once but it never left the mouse. The mouse was always eaten.
You can feed prefrozen. Just try that little trick. Save yourself feeding live rats (which probably cost money to house and feed) to snakes, which can if frightened hurt your snake and scares the living shit outta the rats. There are squeaks in the ultrasonic range that probably is scaring the crap out of your other rats.
I know you've said your snake doesn't eat prefrozen but I was responsible for the snake that was in our biology lab. It was fed once a week a mouse (since the snake wasn't very large) but these were good sized mice. I put them in a pitcher and turned on the hot water for 15 minutes. Sure the room smelled mousey for next couple of days but it got the mouse above the temperature of a normal mouse (probably a good 150F) which probably made the wiggling it on forceps at the snake a bright spot to the heat sensors on the snake. It never went hungry. Never ignored its food. Only had to drop the food into the cage once but it never left the mouse. The mouse was always eaten.
You can feed prefrozen. Just try that little trick. Save yourself feeding live rats (which probably cost money to house and feed) to snakes, which can if frightened hurt your snake and scares the living shit outta the rats. There are squeaks in the ultrasonic range that probably is scaring the crap out of your other rats.
The question becomes how hot did you let the rodent get? Because we turned on the hot tap and left it running for 15 minutes. That's very hot water. That mouse probably was a good 150F to 200F. It'd be a bright spot in the snake's heat sensors. Did you boil it or just warm it up with some hot water and leave the water out? Because the heat wasn't there for the snake to enjoy probably. And ours didn't always immediately eat it, it struck, coiled then ate it half the time, but it was eaten because it was boiling hot. The body was still radiating heat.
See, but you're ignoring heat transfer. This is where knowing science comes in handy. It takes time for the heat to go into the flesh. Microwaving will just cook the outside, like how it does on most food but the center will still be cold. Flesh especially is really bad with microwaves since the waves hit water particles and jostle them. The body is mostly water. So even if it's frozen or not, it's going to heat the outside. The reason we put the mouse under a running hot tap (not fill a pot and leave it sit) is because the heat is going not only into the flesh but going out of the water into the air around it. The reason your snake probably went "WTF?" with the boiled one is because you got the mouse hot on the outside but didn't let the whole rodent get hot. The heat needs to penetrate deep and it won't cook it, it'll just keep the rodent warm longer until the snake eats it. Boiling will get you the heat you need but you'll need to keep the heat up until the whole body (through and through) is warmed up. Boiling will make it the target but if it's only warm on the outside, the heat will go into the much colder inner body and out into the air, ruining the chance of it being warm enough for the snake to enjoy.
They weren't in cages long enough for it to matter because they were being tortured by the slow crush of a serpent.
Sounds like a fun way to die. NOT.
How can you call something your pet and then throw it to a snake? What is wrong with you?
Also, you're wrong. Opinion or not.
lol one sec while I lock you in a room by yourself forever with no other humans. SOUNDS LIKE FUN DOESN'T IT?
Sounds like a fun way to die. NOT.
How can you call something your pet and then throw it to a snake? What is wrong with you?
Also, you're wrong. Opinion or not.
lol one sec while I lock you in a room by yourself forever with no other humans. SOUNDS LIKE FUN DOESN'T IT?
Look, I have four male rats.
They are ALWAYS out of their cage when I am here at my apartment.
However, I can't always be constantly with them and they don't want to always be with me.
It doesn't matter if you're up their ass 24/7. You can't groom them. You can't play fight with them. You can't cuddle with them while they sleep. You can't talk to them (in a way they'll understand beyond basic commands) so I think YOU'RE the one not getting it.
Any responsible rat owner would NEVER EVEN CONSIDER having only one, and no responsible pet store will sell you just one if you don't all ready have some.
Also lol at them going to school with you. I somehow seriously doubt that.
I did read the full conversation, I'm just too floored by your ignorance.
They are ALWAYS out of their cage when I am here at my apartment.
However, I can't always be constantly with them and they don't want to always be with me.
It doesn't matter if you're up their ass 24/7. You can't groom them. You can't play fight with them. You can't cuddle with them while they sleep. You can't talk to them (in a way they'll understand beyond basic commands) so I think YOU'RE the one not getting it.
Any responsible rat owner would NEVER EVEN CONSIDER having only one, and no responsible pet store will sell you just one if you don't all ready have some.
Also lol at them going to school with you. I somehow seriously doubt that.
I did read the full conversation, I'm just too floored by your ignorance.
she claimed that only two were from pet stores and that the others were from breeders.
no responsible breeder would sell a single rat unless you had proof you had others. ever.
so i'm going to assume that this breeder was a shit breeder that bred rats just for food.
and she can't say a damn thing about this because she blocked me haha
no responsible breeder would sell a single rat unless you had proof you had others. ever.
so i'm going to assume that this breeder was a shit breeder that bred rats just for food.
and she can't say a damn thing about this because she blocked me haha
Rats actually can get stressed being carted about all over the place. I rarely take my rats anywhere unless I have to. They're neophobic, meaning new things and places stress them. But again, I wouldn't expect you to recognise signs of stress in a rat.
And yay, rats from BYB! Because NO responsible breeder would sell you a lone rat.
And yay, rats from BYB! Because NO responsible breeder would sell you a lone rat.
I actually did take notice you said it was good. I appreciate that BUT it was kinda obliterated by your next statement that you feed live.
You're still totally missing the point.
If it were up to me, NO rats would be killed to indulge snake owners. But Im a realist and I know they are, so I would rather see people take the more humane route of killing before feeding.
Tell me which death you'd rather have: get put in a box with a place to hide, then be slowly gassed with co2 introduced so gradually you hardly notice it, then you just fall asleep.
Or placed into a box with a predator, where you have no chance of escape, then grabbed and squeezed until you can no longer draw breath.
I know which I'd rather have.
How is feeding live better than killing humanely beforehand? Do you have any idea the terror the rat goes through before it does when its fed live? Do you even realise a rat has the intelligence of a toddler? How much do you think it suffers being placed in with a predator?
Frankly, I think live feeders are the worst people on earth, and if you didn't live feed, we could have a conversation. But frankly, the fact that you do, endangering both your snakes and torturing the rats, despite all the advice from people who know more about snakes than you, shows you just don't care.
Added to the fact, you thought bringing a live feeding agenda was right on a pic of a suffering baby rat rescued from that fate? Have you got no sensitivity? Have you any idea what Im going through with this boy? Or the anguish I am experiencing knowing his brothers and sisters are probably being live fed right now?
If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.
You're still totally missing the point.
If it were up to me, NO rats would be killed to indulge snake owners. But Im a realist and I know they are, so I would rather see people take the more humane route of killing before feeding.
Tell me which death you'd rather have: get put in a box with a place to hide, then be slowly gassed with co2 introduced so gradually you hardly notice it, then you just fall asleep.
Or placed into a box with a predator, where you have no chance of escape, then grabbed and squeezed until you can no longer draw breath.
I know which I'd rather have.
How is feeding live better than killing humanely beforehand? Do you have any idea the terror the rat goes through before it does when its fed live? Do you even realise a rat has the intelligence of a toddler? How much do you think it suffers being placed in with a predator?
Frankly, I think live feeders are the worst people on earth, and if you didn't live feed, we could have a conversation. But frankly, the fact that you do, endangering both your snakes and torturing the rats, despite all the advice from people who know more about snakes than you, shows you just don't care.
Added to the fact, you thought bringing a live feeding agenda was right on a pic of a suffering baby rat rescued from that fate? Have you got no sensitivity? Have you any idea what Im going through with this boy? Or the anguish I am experiencing knowing his brothers and sisters are probably being live fed right now?
If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.
Uh......I know snakes have to eat.
Thats kinda not the point.
And I can't really see the point of this comment. You're sorta saying 'Im not taking sides, but snakes have to eat so if this boy had ended up thrown in with a snake it wouldn't have been that big of an issue!'
:/
Thats kinda not the point.
And I can't really see the point of this comment. You're sorta saying 'Im not taking sides, but snakes have to eat so if this boy had ended up thrown in with a snake it wouldn't have been that big of an issue!'
:/
See, this requires THOUGHT and GETTING OFF ONE'S ASS.
Which is apparently too hard for some people.
But seriously though that's a neat idea. :O I mean I don't own snakes (I have thought of it) but probably never will. Seems like a good way to trick their heat-sensing. Obviously it works!
Which is apparently too hard for some people.
But seriously though that's a neat idea. :O I mean I don't own snakes (I have thought of it) but probably never will. Seems like a good way to trick their heat-sensing. Obviously it works!
Point the ignorant person to my comment. It's taking a pitcher or pot (we used a pitcher), put the frozen rodent in, turn on the hot water and let it run for 15 minutes as hot as possible. Yes, this wastes a bit of water but it'll make the rodent much hotter than the body normally is (i.e. making those heat sensors go wild) and then use forceps to wiggle it.
I would, but they've now blocked me on both of my accounts for protesting to their photograph submissions of their snakes staring rats in the fact and they are about to eat them and attempting to get them to stop spreading false rumors about rat husbandry. I actually caught this person telling someone to keep a lone rat because they become more "people oriented." Needless to say I was quite outraged and I do fear my actions will have me temp banned on the morrow. :U
I just took a wander through that person's FA page and not only are they saying that they're in the right but there's a good number of people who support the feeding of live animals to comment when they can't understand the drama that said person caused here to Ziggy (who is a wonderful person for saving these rats) and every other person who is in support of frozen prekilled. Then again, I've never been a huge fan of snakes. I'm fascinated by them but they aren't something I'd want to keep as a pet. They're not snuggly like a dog or cat or rat, which I've owned, have friends who've owned or want to own respectively. Honestly, I don't think you should be temp banned, you're just stating your opinion.
Comments