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In lue of MANY debates/arguments/what ever's that are going on right now about rats as snake food, I though I'd upload a picture of one of my rats.
This is Twilight, he was an amazing rat, who passed away of natural causes (old age)
I have had many pet rats;
Angel, Oliver, Templeton, Taquila, Rufus, and Twilight.
All were VERY loved pets, and all passed away of old age, except for Rufus who had health issues his entire life.
This said, Rats make WONDERFUL pets, I love them. But I am going to continue to feed my snakes LIVE rats. I hate hooded rats, so that is the only kind I feed them (yes, its my oppinion)
is it inhumain? No, I don't think so. its part of the food chain. And I'd rather my snakes eat live, fresh rats over rats that died a death of being flash frozen that have been sitting in a freezer for who knows how long.
also, Apollo will NOT eat frozen food.
Now lets clear some things up :)
And these are all VERY loosely quoted because the only things I'm putting up were said to me by multiple people.
"any snake will eat them if they are hungry enough"
WRONG! WRONG WRONG!
not all snakes will eat frozen rats. fact of life.
"they will if they are hungry enough"
you're dumb. A hungry snake is an aggressive snake. No one needs that.
"well, that's the price you pay for owning something that shouldn't be a pet"
again, you're dumb. Just like your precious rats that you defend, snakes (especially those that are pets) have been domesticated through generations and cannot survive in the wild. If you take a handful of pet rats and let them loose, only a few LUCKY ones would survive. Same with Snakes. Yes, snakes have a better chance in the wild than rats, but not by much. with domestication comes lack of fear, and that's what kills them.
I could add much more to this, but I'm ending it here...at least for now, I may add to it, or I may not
I'm not AGAINST feeding frozen mice/rats as snake food, but my snakes and I prefer live feeding. So for now, enjoy this picture of Twilight :)
This is Twilight, he was an amazing rat, who passed away of natural causes (old age)
I have had many pet rats;
Angel, Oliver, Templeton, Taquila, Rufus, and Twilight.
All were VERY loved pets, and all passed away of old age, except for Rufus who had health issues his entire life.
This said, Rats make WONDERFUL pets, I love them. But I am going to continue to feed my snakes LIVE rats. I hate hooded rats, so that is the only kind I feed them (yes, its my oppinion)
is it inhumain? No, I don't think so. its part of the food chain. And I'd rather my snakes eat live, fresh rats over rats that died a death of being flash frozen that have been sitting in a freezer for who knows how long.
also, Apollo will NOT eat frozen food.
Now lets clear some things up :)
And these are all VERY loosely quoted because the only things I'm putting up were said to me by multiple people.
"any snake will eat them if they are hungry enough"
WRONG! WRONG WRONG!
not all snakes will eat frozen rats. fact of life.
"they will if they are hungry enough"
you're dumb. A hungry snake is an aggressive snake. No one needs that.
"well, that's the price you pay for owning something that shouldn't be a pet"
again, you're dumb. Just like your precious rats that you defend, snakes (especially those that are pets) have been domesticated through generations and cannot survive in the wild. If you take a handful of pet rats and let them loose, only a few LUCKY ones would survive. Same with Snakes. Yes, snakes have a better chance in the wild than rats, but not by much. with domestication comes lack of fear, and that's what kills them.
I could add much more to this, but I'm ending it here...at least for now, I may add to it, or I may not
I'm not AGAINST feeding frozen mice/rats as snake food, but my snakes and I prefer live feeding. So for now, enjoy this picture of Twilight :)
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and thats fine, I know that a LOT of people prefer gooded rats over ones, like my Twilight here, who looks like a common brown sewer rat. Its all based on personal preferance. Most of them are probably VERY nice rats, but they are also the only kind I was ever bit by (when I was like 8) and I havent liked them much since. Though this dosn't mean I wont hold and love on the ones my friends own. Rats make great pets :)
I have to Hairless boys that people think I am odd for finding to be adorable. Honestly the only hooded ratties I have ever liked were my two boys but I don't so much love them cause their hooded I love their quirky personalities. Thats how I ended up with all my boys was by personality not so much choice of breed. xp
I would love to own a snake at some point but since I own ratties now I can't bring myself to be able to feed it live or frozen anything. (I get attached WAY to easily) And the smaller ones who just eat bugs would be a bad fit cause I have a silly fear of crickets and am creeped out by meal worms. But the way I see it is animals have to eat just like humans do, If you keep it as a pet you have to be willing to feed it whatever it will eat that will keep it happy and healthy.
I would love to own a snake at some point but since I own ratties now I can't bring myself to be able to feed it live or frozen anything. (I get attached WAY to easily) And the smaller ones who just eat bugs would be a bad fit cause I have a silly fear of crickets and am creeped out by meal worms. But the way I see it is animals have to eat just like humans do, If you keep it as a pet you have to be willing to feed it whatever it will eat that will keep it happy and healthy.
omg, I love hairless ones! I thats what rufus was :) I love how they feel ^.^
I never had snakes and rats as pets at the same time. After twilight passed away is when my hubby and I got Apollo, our first snake. The first few feedings( not sure exactly how many) I couldn't watch, and he wouldn't let me even look at the mice (thats what he ate at the time) because I easly get attatched. I just had to eventually remind myself that snakes have to eat too....and for Apollo, that ment live food, he wont do frozen food.
I never had snakes and rats as pets at the same time. After twilight passed away is when my hubby and I got Apollo, our first snake. The first few feedings( not sure exactly how many) I couldn't watch, and he wouldn't let me even look at the mice (thats what he ate at the time) because I easly get attatched. I just had to eventually remind myself that snakes have to eat too....and for Apollo, that ment live food, he wont do frozen food.
I always get the urge to make my boys something to keep their little naked bodies warm in the winter, but since they have two fat and fuzzy little brothers to keep them warm now I think they wouldn't like me trying to put cloths on them xp
I think that my only worry with feeding something live to a pet is it the thing I am trying to feed to it fought back and really injured my pet. I saw a live feeding once when I was a kid and the rat got a really hard bite on the snake before snake could subdue it.
I think that my only worry with feeding something live to a pet is it the thing I am trying to feed to it fought back and really injured my pet. I saw a live feeding once when I was a kid and the rat got a really hard bite on the snake before snake could subdue it.
you made cloths for them? That's frikkin cute! Lol
Yeah, live feeding can be dangerious, and bites do happen. We've had it happen only once, apollo was taking on a mouse. It didn't get a good bit, didn't even break skin, but that's probably because we were right there, and had our tool in place to open, and keep open the mouses mouth.
Yeah, live feeding can be dangerious, and bites do happen. We've had it happen only once, apollo was taking on a mouse. It didn't get a good bit, didn't even break skin, but that's probably because we were right there, and had our tool in place to open, and keep open the mouses mouth.
AMEN sister. i have seen your debate going on.. And you know what to those who are debating against you.. The ASPCA wont go after a pet owner that feeds live mice,rats, and or rabbits or pigs to their snakes. Yes people who protect the neglected and abused animals will NOT take away punish a snake owner who is feeding their animal LIVE food. People who are against it we understand we all take no pleasure into feeding this live animal.. we get no sick pervers pleasure watching our snakes eat the mouse or rat.. But our beloved reptile needs to eat. So to those who argue the points good for you with your choices but please keep them to yourselves i know my sis smurf doesnt get pleasure in it nor do i but i love my reptiles. and i will continue to feed live cause thats what they eat in the wild. END RANT.
"your dumb"
ahem... you're dumb.
See, it makes you look bad when you call someone dumb. Through using the wrong word you have essentially made dumb a noun. Thus the dumb becomes something you can actually own. Not my dumb, rather, your dumb.
Also, being part of the food chain dose not make it humane, it makes it part of the food chain.
Just knock out your rats with CO2 next time. that way, they are warm, and fresh, but do not have to suffer from the terror of a larger animal crushing them to death.
It's a fair compromise.
ahem... you're dumb.
See, it makes you look bad when you call someone dumb. Through using the wrong word you have essentially made dumb a noun. Thus the dumb becomes something you can actually own. Not my dumb, rather, your dumb.
Also, being part of the food chain dose not make it humane, it makes it part of the food chain.
Just knock out your rats with CO2 next time. that way, they are warm, and fresh, but do not have to suffer from the terror of a larger animal crushing them to death.
It's a fair compromise.
eh, I typed this up fast and threw spelling out the window, as I often do because I don't pay attention to spelling.
if the snake gets the rat the right way in the first strike its a rather fast way to die. So I don't see it as inhumane, but that can all depend on who you ask, not everyone's going to agree on it.
As for the CO2, I won't use it. I feed live, its not changing unless I get a snake that needs to be frozen/thawed or if I get an older snake that is only used to eating frozen/thawed.
if the snake gets the rat the right way in the first strike its a rather fast way to die. So I don't see it as inhumane, but that can all depend on who you ask, not everyone's going to agree on it.
As for the CO2, I won't use it. I feed live, its not changing unless I get a snake that needs to be frozen/thawed or if I get an older snake that is only used to eating frozen/thawed.
CO2 is a few seconds away from live feed. Do your rats a favor, and look it up. I know plenty of snakes will not touch frozen rats, but if they are still have body heat and smell like live rats there is little reason that your snake will not eat them.
i know this post invoked lots of random internet advice. so, i don't want you to think that i have some ego driven motive. as if i sat around and called you an idiot, I doubt you would give a second thought, regardless of how true my advice may be.
the only reason I say anything, and bother you is that there is no reason not to try it.
Rats are the only non-primate land mammal on earth that are self aware. Don't subject them to unnatural, terrifying end if there is a better way.
and yes, it is unnatural. Most rats snakes eat in the wild are not caged, fancy rats. They are free wild rats. Let's face it, it's not exactly National Geographic material. With fancy rats you are talking about a adrenal gland 1/3 the size of a wild rat's. So, the whole "natural" argument is a little out of context.
By that logic putting a human in a locked closet with a 10 foot alligator would simply be "the food chain". I don't know about you, but you can knock me out before that... Alligators have to eat you know
i have been around long enough to understand why you would not listen to my advice. Hell, you don't know me. You may be even slightly annoyed that a whole year after the fact some random know it all corrects your grammar, and calls you inhumane. I get it, it sucks.
That being said, hear me out.
I Will paypal you the set up cost of a co2 system. All you have to do is order the parts, and it will show up at your door.
offer is on the table.
i know this post invoked lots of random internet advice. so, i don't want you to think that i have some ego driven motive. as if i sat around and called you an idiot, I doubt you would give a second thought, regardless of how true my advice may be.
the only reason I say anything, and bother you is that there is no reason not to try it.
Rats are the only non-primate land mammal on earth that are self aware. Don't subject them to unnatural, terrifying end if there is a better way.
and yes, it is unnatural. Most rats snakes eat in the wild are not caged, fancy rats. They are free wild rats. Let's face it, it's not exactly National Geographic material. With fancy rats you are talking about a adrenal gland 1/3 the size of a wild rat's. So, the whole "natural" argument is a little out of context.
By that logic putting a human in a locked closet with a 10 foot alligator would simply be "the food chain". I don't know about you, but you can knock me out before that... Alligators have to eat you know
i have been around long enough to understand why you would not listen to my advice. Hell, you don't know me. You may be even slightly annoyed that a whole year after the fact some random know it all corrects your grammar, and calls you inhumane. I get it, it sucks.
That being said, hear me out.
I Will paypal you the set up cost of a co2 system. All you have to do is order the parts, and it will show up at your door.
offer is on the table.
"With fancy rats you are talking about a adrenal gland 1/3 the size of a wild rat's"
That's interesting, I didn't know that there was really much of a difference between fancy rats and wild rats (although, in all honesty I never looked into the differences. When I've looked up rat info its always just "rats" never really clarifying them)
also, alligators kill much differently than constrictors, so the comparison doesn't really work, but I get what your saying
As for your offer, I will decline. I appreciate the fact that you are trying to actively make a difference in the way feeder rats are treated/put down, that's much more effective than someone who would just run off at the mouth acting all white knight-ish. I have moved to a new food source though and no longer feed rats.
That's interesting, I didn't know that there was really much of a difference between fancy rats and wild rats (although, in all honesty I never looked into the differences. When I've looked up rat info its always just "rats" never really clarifying them)
also, alligators kill much differently than constrictors, so the comparison doesn't really work, but I get what your saying
As for your offer, I will decline. I appreciate the fact that you are trying to actively make a difference in the way feeder rats are treated/put down, that's much more effective than someone who would just run off at the mouth acting all white knight-ish. I have moved to a new food source though and no longer feed rats.
Well, the argument of "its natural" or unnatural, goes out the window anyway. Most Americans or other civilized cultures have pets...that in its self is unnatural, in the fact that we take ownership over an animal. By being as advanced as we humans are, we are in the position to determine the lifestyle of our pets. Owning a snake is technically unnatural, so is owning a dog, cat, etc. Humans dont care about the naturality of something. So that being said, the rat...is just a rat. I dont care if it dies being scared shitless, nice and warm, asleep, etc...Once it is in with the snake, I let "nature" take its course.
I would not call it much of a compromise if I am the one footing the bill. i did offer to pay for the system I advocate. So, why should you compromise with me?
I don't know what you want me to say. I have stated my argument fairly clearly. Rats feel pain, fear, yadda yadda. The bottom line is we are choosing the smartest animal of that size, with emotions not dissimilar to our own for snake food.
I feel like you are giving me the "I do what I want" run around. It's not as if you make a cohesive point. I really don't think you are interested in an intellectual debate. Rather you would prefer the "deal with it" methodology of argumentation. I mean, hell, I know that you came into this with a point to half prove.
Here is my question to you. Why should I even bother with somebody acting like an obstinate child? It's not as if anything I say is going to change your mind.
I don't know what you want me to say. I have stated my argument fairly clearly. Rats feel pain, fear, yadda yadda. The bottom line is we are choosing the smartest animal of that size, with emotions not dissimilar to our own for snake food.
I feel like you are giving me the "I do what I want" run around. It's not as if you make a cohesive point. I really don't think you are interested in an intellectual debate. Rather you would prefer the "deal with it" methodology of argumentation. I mean, hell, I know that you came into this with a point to half prove.
Here is my question to you. Why should I even bother with somebody acting like an obstinate child? It's not as if anything I say is going to change your mind.
Oh, you're homegurls other half.
I see now. I thought you where a random person yourself.
i was looking up rat pictures, I was not looking for this... i just was lucky enough to click on this picture.
Now, your lady friend and I had wrapped this all up. She seems very nice. If you want to keep chatting like this, that's cool. but to me the issue was settled before you even made your first comment.
So, do you want to end with some semblance of maturity, or should we keep our meaningless correspondence long after our points are made?
Or, if you just want to pop in sometime and say 'hello" we can do that too.
I see now. I thought you where a random person yourself.
i was looking up rat pictures, I was not looking for this... i just was lucky enough to click on this picture.
Now, your lady friend and I had wrapped this all up. She seems very nice. If you want to keep chatting like this, that's cool. but to me the issue was settled before you even made your first comment.
So, do you want to end with some semblance of maturity, or should we keep our meaningless correspondence long after our points are made?
Or, if you just want to pop in sometime and say 'hello" we can do that too.
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