Thanks. For some reason, it'll work, then go broken again... hopefully this will fix it. D:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Say-N.....49886288452749

o.O This is messed up. Means these snakes could end up with people who have no idea how to take care of them.

Exactly-- part of the major problem here is that it opens the door to just ANYONE going and getting a snake because its cheap and easy to obtain ($6?) because they think its "cool" and they have no idea what the animal needs... then when they decide it isn't cool (unless it dies before then) they could easily just dump it into the wild... which reflects poorly on EVERYONE who keeps these animals. :c

Yeah. Dx Ironic this came up. My friend/ roommate today told me she wants a snake but knows nothing about them. Had to give her some lectures on them. I have a snake my self but not a python. I know how much care they take and they get to be a pretty big size. My snake is a chocolate California king snake.

:) Sounds like a beauty~
Snakes do take a lot of work, but they can be a very rewarding pet when everything is said and done with. Just not for EVERYONE. Maybe direct her to http://ball-pythons.net if shes really serious about it. :) They can get her on the right track by teaching her what all she'll need for Ball Pythons and most other breeds. :)

He seriously looks like candy. XD
I know enough to educate her. My parents made me study snakes before I was able to ever get one. Back when I first wanted a snake as a kid. I use to go to shows, read books, and read stuff online.

:) I SO respect your parents for that-- I know mine didn't make me study them so much as told me that all snakes were bad. Lizards were fine, but snakes... nope. I admit, I jumped in before I was truly ready and it could have ended badly for my pet, but I found the forums and had sense beaten into me. lol

My mom told me I had to study them and learn all about them before I could get one. She thought that would stop me from asking for one. XD I even have a book I wrote when I was a kid, about my mom not letting me get a snake. She was shocked when she found out I did study about them and knew so much about them. Even learned about each breed's temperaments.

I had lizards too and lol'ed at a line in one of my books, "Iguanas are stupid." Seriously it said that.

Aww! LOL Thats cute! :) I didn't get mine until December 2nd 2009. I now view that day as my snake's birthday-- its the day he became part of my family. lol

Awesome! My first snake has long been gone. I was just a kid when I got her.

where do they come from?

The snakes themselves or the people running BallBids?
The people running the site are in KY, the snakes have been ordered from Constrictors Unlimited, but not sure how long they'll be getting them there.

Here is the facebook for BallBids: http://www.facebook.com/BallBids
The site is simply http://www.ballbids.com/

As for articles, they started up this past week-- there are threads on Fauna, which I had assumed most people who kept herps used. (Link to the BOI thread on them, anyways: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/for.....d.php?t=290982 ) as well as Ball-Pythons.net (http://ball-pythons.net/forums/show.....1-Ballbids.com )

What got me going against them is that, yes, it opens the doors for more of the uneducated masses to buy via the internet, but not just in normals, but morphs. It WILL bring down the morph market, like you said, but more than that, what do you think HSUS and PETA will have to say about this-- they already see those of us who keep reptiles as having them simply as a commodity and say that we don't see them as living creatures. This would further prove that point.

What got most people going on BallBids is that when people were asking legit questions, such as "What are your quarantine procedures?" "Can we see the facility? Where do you keep these animals?" they initially started out with things such as "We keep them in a dark basement inside of trash bags"-- come to find out, there is no quarantine, so when people raised further concerns as to how anyone could expect a healthy animal from this without quarantine (as IBD is a python killer and VERY contagious, so if one had it, then all of them could get it and thus potentially wipe out a collection or any and all animals in the new owner's QT area), the posts started being deleted from view. Then it became, "Can we see your business license?" (Which is required for this site to be legit) and they respond with "We operate on a federal level, so we don't need any licenses"-- when, after doing some digging, federal law states that they DO need a license to auction live animals. Basically, most people are against them due to the blatant lies they're trying to feed people.

Ok, since the snakes are shipped out of KY, KY law applies to them, so... how about the fact that they held a raffle for a fire ball, however, according to KY law: § 91.096 OFFERING ANIMAL AS PRIZE OR AWARD.

(A) No person shall offer any live animal as a prize or award in connection with any raffle, protest, demonstration, promotion, or as an incentive to participate in any game, promotion, or otherwise. (Source: http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway......$3.0#JD_91.096 )

Here is where they say they don't need licenses because they operate on a federal level (would link you the thread itself, but there isn't a share button on it so I can't do that-- I do know you'll find it if you dig on their facebook). http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/.....oesntapply.png and here is a link stating they DO need a license, on the Federal level: http://www.bornfreeusa.org/b4a2_exoticauctions.php

And this one to show that they do have to show licenses when asked: http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/.....tslicenses.png

Exactly. Most of this had been pointed out in those forums, and frankly, I just took from the most recent examples on their facebook. I wanted to try calling attention to it because it has every bit of potential to be HORRIBLE for the herp community.

I do believe someone had a screencap where the two guys running the site were basically saying this was their "get rich fast" scheme... but I can't find that myself.

Also, I know there is LOTS to read, but there are two forums I linked to that DO have other people who have been following this since the first day, varying from mildly skeptical to outright against the idea.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/for.....d.php?t=290982 is for the Fauna Classifieds Board of Inquiry for them, and http://ball-pythons.net/forums/show.....1-Ballbids.com is the BP.net Inquiry board. Both of these are tools used to determine if the business is ok or not for someone to work with or if one is more likely to be scammed.

To be fair, there is SO much that I COULD link to that I'm a bit overwhelmed as to where to start, which is why I link to these two forums-- nearly every shred of evidence is in there if you do the reading.

peta will probably flip their shit
this is like the snake form of a puppy-farm

More or less... and the worst part is that it could bring those of us who keep reptiles that much closer to being unable to have them for pets. :c

so true. people who don't know what they're getting themselves into are the ones who let em loose and then cause invasive pythons where they live :(

I believe there were many factors to that, but... yes. And banning them will only make that problem worse, really. P:

Damn.. I never heard of these guys before. Thanks for the heads up on these asshats!

My pleasure. Just trying to make sure we maintain the right to keep reptiles as pets.

You know, I wouldn't mind if they had us get a cheap license or something. I'm just sick of all of us getting crapped on because of a few drooling idiots.

Same here. Cheap license, microchip... these are all acceptable to me. I actually REALLY hope they do ask us to start microchipping all of our reptiles. If anything happened and any of mine came up missing, I'd have a means of finding them.

Mine came up stolen. Microchips woulda been nice.

D: Awww! I'm so sorry to hear that!! If anyone took any of my snakes, I'd be out for blood. :c

Sorry for the late reply. I too am rather..upset over this matter. I've seen reptile auctions before but this one just..wow. I've seen this on facebook a couple of times and know several people who are posting this that are trying to get its hut down. Apparently the people behind it are very rude and will block anyone who tries to say anything about them. Then I saw something about one of the owners making a fake account to try to make them seem legit or some shit by acting as a 'satisifed customer'...yet there were some errors he did when trying to do that.

I've already reported them several times with facebook and I know several others who are doing so as well.

Awesome, thanks Rami. :) Its great to know where we all stand on this matter~ I dunno if you follow , but we're spreading the word about the Anti-BallBids FB Group where a good 90% of our info is gathered and posted, and she did an amazing piece to showcase that EVERYONE is free to use, if you want. :)

I don't currently follow her but I know who she is. And yeah, I'm part of like six different herp-related (mostly snake related) groups on FB, including local groups, and we've been spreading the word like crazy. =)

:D Awesome. <3 Couldn't ask for more than that! ^^ We appreciate every bit of it.
I don't think they realized how serious most of us are about keeping our pets legal and not letting just any idiot who wants to "make a quick buck" in so easily. lol

Yeah...I mean, I do breed and everything but its more a hobby than anything. I mean, I do sell the extra babies so I have room and am not over crowded but I usually try to place them with people I know and trust. Honestly if I could afford it, I would probably end up keeping every baby I hatched out xD...But I know that's not a good thing, so I haven't. Ballbids just..irritates the hell out of me. They're like...auctioning off animals like used items. While I don't mind reptile auctions from Reputable people or when its done legally but ballbids is just...ugh.

Yeah, trust me, I understand it entirely. Hell, I'm looking at getting a piebald and a black pastel so I can breed out a panda pied-- the price tag on those is outrageous, and frankly, I know it'll take me 4-6 years at the SHORTEST to do it, but it'll be well worth it if I can spend $1200 and eventually get the animal I want rather than spend $20,000 for it...
:) I like how Ben does his auctions-- they're not done as if it were secondhand items, but rather it seems to be more like, "I need the room, get yourself a good deal and have fun with this"

Definitely! Ben has great auctions and if I could afford shipping, I'd probably participate no problem.

Right now I'm not working with ball pythons (though I have them)..as I am focusing mainly on corn snakes with maybe a king snake here or there. In the future I'm gonna be working with white-sided black rat snakes and albino white-sides (already got my female albino white side)...

This upcoming season I have at least one planned female that I need to test out. The person who had her before me was told that the snake is an Ultramel Anery - but there are questions on that because she looks like a ghost.

I recently acquired a male Ultramel Motley so I plan on testing her out with that. I'm still deciding on other possibilities. If my abberant king proves to be female then she'll be bred...and that leaves 3 more female corns I can choose from if I chose to do so. I'm not going to breed all my capable females though. Max would be 3 total and spread apart.

:) I hear you there-- been very tempted to participate... To the point that its driving me mad. lol!

:) I'm a ball python enthusiast, though the first snakes I interacted with were corns. Awesome little guys. :) I'm always wary of kingsnakes, as most of the ones I've come across irl have been moody things that are very nippy, and I prefer to have something that I can hold every now and again. lol

I'll admit, I don't know too much about corn breeding-- is ghost anything like the ball python ghost? Incompatible lines and the like? :)

Not quite. Ghost merely is a hypo anery - so an Anery (silver/black snake) with reduced black. http://www.corncalc.com is a great way to figure out genetics with corns and such.

And the cali kings I have now (which is why I'm hoping my second one is female) are amazing snakes. The possible female is lazy as hell and reminds me of a corn snake..she's docile, doesn't run, has never musked or bit, etc. My male has never musked or bit - but he likes to go and go and go. No aggression, just likes to move alot.

That sounds horrible, I hope the snakes are being treated right before being shipped because it sounds like a bunch of careless idiots are running that place.

I hope they will be shut down soon what with that KY law: § 91.096.

Thats all any of us can hope for. And, yes, hoping for a very quick shut down on them.

ah wait, so if people can by snakes for that cheap, doesn't that mean that people who actually eat snake and so on can basically just eat them? set them loose or do what ever they want with them since they are cheap? cause i know some people who have said, as a prank but still, that they would love to set snakes loose in schools or people's homes but they are just too expensive. If they can buy snakes for that cheap i don't know what they would do with them .___.

kinda like buying a dog, if you could buy a puppy for $25 that brings it's value down and people probably wouldn't treat it as well since some people might think "oh it was just $25, well get another" .___. that....could be potentially dangerous to people and the animal

please note, i know absolutely nothing about snakes though XD my mom told me i can't have any reptiles (shes a heavy bible pusher when it comes to reptiles and she says they are "devil's creatures" ) i love frogs and turtles though .___. so off topic but they are adorable XD

That is a huge reason why this is so bad. It would give more people the chance to get ahold of one, yes, but... well... they're not something you should buy on a whim. NO animal is. I would be just as against it if it were puppies or kittens being auctioned off. (I don't even like when horses/cattle are auctioned off, which is a common occurrence in the south).

I have no problem with people eating snakes, but I DO think that those snakes should be bred specifically for that purpose... this "I eat snakes" phenomenon has nearly wiped out the Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnakes.

And, yes, with it being so cheap, people can and will do that. Case in point: Anoles, House Gecko, Long Tail Lizard. All are found for $5 or less... and I see SO MANY 5 YEAR OLDS GET THEM! Then they will inevitably kill it, or, bring it back with ailments like broken jaws, missing toes, etc. Now, these are not snakes, but rather small lizards... but no animal deserves to be given to an irresponsible child. (imho, at least. There are the children who are more responsible, but the parents still do a lot of the work with the animal).

Not going to lie, reptiles have their risk. There is the chance of getting salmonella from them, or with larger snakes, if you're not an attentive owner, the animal COULD harm you. But usually? They're pretty safe animals. (Been keeping mine for nearly 5 years and have only ever been bitten twice.)