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More from Beetlecat
Okay I was going to let this rest (and have until now) but it seems that I need to clear something up.
When I made Toby, I wrote up a fairly detailed page on his construction. I thought it would be interesting for folks to see and make their own quadsuits based on my experience with the process. (the page is here btw.. I have no plans to remove it: http://www.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=145587)
I never imagined that someone would take that and use it as their own blueprint to recreate my exact costume design but hey lesson learned in sharing too much.
I cannot 'own' Toby's design so there's no way to stop people from doing this. And really what happens on the other side of the world does not bother me.
Know that I'm not out to flame the maker or the wearer with this post and I do not know anything about either of them. Maybe him/her/they is great people(s). I don't know.
But I do want people to be AWARE that it exists. And that if you call it Toby then that makes me sad because IMO they have nothing in common except that one is a copy of the other and just the idea that anyone could possibly confuse it as being my work REALLY makes me sad. I work hard to have a good reputation with my fursuit work.
So here is a handy-dandy guide to refer to! I pulled the 'not toby' photos off FA and matched them up with 'is toby' photos at the same angles.
It is VERY flattering that so many people recognize and love Toby so just be aware that you can't assume that any grey and brown striped targ in existence is him. Take a closer look before you contact me about it :p
DON'T bug the maker about it. I am not mad at them (disappointed maybe). All I want is that people stop linking me photos of it, tagging me on Facebook, asking if I was at so-and-so convention, or notifying me that it exists and what am I going to do about it. The answers are don't care, not me, probably not, yes I know and nothing.
Thank you!
BTW, if in doubt, Toby always wears his cow bell. If you are at a con and the targ is silent, rather than making a huge noisy scene, it's not him ;) Granted I have no idea if the other one wears a bell too but mine has a klingon emblem scratched into it and is signed by Worf on the other side.
--
EDIT: This exploded a bit more than I expect I'll be honest. Thanks to everyone that has shown support and I still ask that any one going to the maker's page please STOP it.
For those asking that I talk to them, well we've been in contact before. I did not press this issue when it arose (Early 2011 was when I found out originally it was a copy that was made and not a different targ suit made using my tutorials as I thought. After it had been built and completed unfortunately or I would have pressed it right then) since I didn't really think it my place. But ignoring it does not make it go away as you can see.
The maker has apologized. I've accepted and suggested they change some markings (they want to destroy it which is a shame since photos means they obviously use and enjoy it).
They fear that people will not accept the suit after even if they change things so please prove me right :) And continue to suggest here in the comments things they could do to change it enough that they will be two different targs.
When I made Toby, I wrote up a fairly detailed page on his construction. I thought it would be interesting for folks to see and make their own quadsuits based on my experience with the process. (the page is here btw.. I have no plans to remove it: http://www.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=145587)
I never imagined that someone would take that and use it as their own blueprint to recreate my exact costume design but hey lesson learned in sharing too much.
I cannot 'own' Toby's design so there's no way to stop people from doing this. And really what happens on the other side of the world does not bother me.
Know that I'm not out to flame the maker or the wearer with this post and I do not know anything about either of them. Maybe him/her/they is great people(s). I don't know.
But I do want people to be AWARE that it exists. And that if you call it Toby then that makes me sad because IMO they have nothing in common except that one is a copy of the other and just the idea that anyone could possibly confuse it as being my work REALLY makes me sad. I work hard to have a good reputation with my fursuit work.
So here is a handy-dandy guide to refer to! I pulled the 'not toby' photos off FA and matched them up with 'is toby' photos at the same angles.
It is VERY flattering that so many people recognize and love Toby so just be aware that you can't assume that any grey and brown striped targ in existence is him. Take a closer look before you contact me about it :p
DON'T bug the maker about it. I am not mad at them (disappointed maybe). All I want is that people stop linking me photos of it, tagging me on Facebook, asking if I was at so-and-so convention, or notifying me that it exists and what am I going to do about it. The answers are don't care, not me, probably not, yes I know and nothing.
Thank you!
BTW, if in doubt, Toby always wears his cow bell. If you are at a con and the targ is silent, rather than making a huge noisy scene, it's not him ;) Granted I have no idea if the other one wears a bell too but mine has a klingon emblem scratched into it and is signed by Worf on the other side.
--
EDIT: This exploded a bit more than I expect I'll be honest. Thanks to everyone that has shown support and I still ask that any one going to the maker's page please STOP it.
For those asking that I talk to them, well we've been in contact before. I did not press this issue when it arose (Early 2011 was when I found out originally it was a copy that was made and not a different targ suit made using my tutorials as I thought. After it had been built and completed unfortunately or I would have pressed it right then) since I didn't really think it my place. But ignoring it does not make it go away as you can see.
The maker has apologized. I've accepted and suggested they change some markings (they want to destroy it which is a shame since photos means they obviously use and enjoy it).
They fear that people will not accept the suit after even if they change things so please prove me right :) And continue to suggest here in the comments things they could do to change it enough that they will be two different targs.
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Although Toby is a relly... interesting character. There is no way to copyright it especially if you put a tutorial out for it. Although I do agree that to EXACTLY copy the origonol design is not cool, especially without permision. Now I am jeweller, and take other peoples ideas as references all the time. I never once call it "my own" rather than "it was made by me, yes." But for something like an originol character like this, and there are THOUSANDS of different types of furr, just isn't cool.
Toby looks like an animal, not-toby looks like a person in an animal costume. Problem?
I do so wish I could see Toby IRL. c:
Not-toby should have made their own Targ character...not a copy. If I could make one, it would physically look the same as Toby (being a targ and all) but would have unique markings (being a different individual targ).
I do so wish I could see Toby IRL. c:
Not-toby should have made their own Targ character...not a copy. If I could make one, it would physically look the same as Toby (being a targ and all) but would have unique markings (being a different individual targ).
ahahah oh man, I'm glad you posted this. If I was ever at a con, and I saw that, I'd think "wow, I don't remember Toby being so.... shoddy. The pictures looked a lot better."
How disappointing when you developed this guy as your own so much. Even your choices of fur and markings are so unorthodox. It wouldn't be so bad if people weren't mistaking them. I don't even need to tell you how much better Toby is. Hopefully word will get around!
How disappointing when you developed this guy as your own so much. Even your choices of fur and markings are so unorthodox. It wouldn't be so bad if people weren't mistaking them. I don't even need to tell you how much better Toby is. Hopefully word will get around!
I think the worst part is at one point the maker commented to a comment about it looking like Toby with "It's a Targ...They all look like that.."
(Or something much the same).
There's a fine line people shouldn't cross.
Kind of seems to me like they saw the line and then skipped a few miles before stopping.
(Or something much the same).
There's a fine line people shouldn't cross.
Kind of seems to me like they saw the line and then skipped a few miles before stopping.
Calling bullshit about that statement! The T'arg from TNG was just an adorable baby pig with a wig and foam spikes. The ones from Enterprise didn't even look exactly like these, I remember a lot of Toby was just Beetle's creative designing. x_x
The copy is so shameful. It's like the chinese knockoff Toby.
The copy is so shameful. It's like the chinese knockoff Toby.
yea when Worf's targ appears in the first season it's neither striped nor red. http://www.startrek.com/uploads/ass.....worfs-targ.jpg
Beetle's also has more spikes/tusks. :/
Beetle's also has more spikes/tusks. :/
This irritates me to see, I wish that they would have at the very least changed a few colors or markings :c. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, but you're handling it very well. I had the pleasure of seeing Toby in person and he is absolutely marvelous, I really hope people tell them apart without even seeing this.
To the few I saw saying it was a form of flattery:
Yes there is the point of flattery ect but that only goes so far in this situation. Keep in mind that people seeing this new costume thinking it's Beetlecat's creation, not this other artist's, and see it in person it could reflect onto her badly due to the poor craftsmanship in comparison to what they saw online. On top of that if they act poorly or if some of Beetle's customers approach them thinking its Beetle and they just kind of shrug them off, or worse, and don't correct them then it's ruining her reputation.
I personally have a doppleganger on DA that took my name AND icon which some of my customers thought was me and it's becoming a fairly large problem on its own.
To the few I saw saying it was a form of flattery:
Yes there is the point of flattery ect but that only goes so far in this situation. Keep in mind that people seeing this new costume thinking it's Beetlecat's creation, not this other artist's, and see it in person it could reflect onto her badly due to the poor craftsmanship in comparison to what they saw online. On top of that if they act poorly or if some of Beetle's customers approach them thinking its Beetle and they just kind of shrug them off, or worse, and don't correct them then it's ruining her reputation.
I personally have a doppleganger on DA that took my name AND icon which some of my customers thought was me and it's becoming a fairly large problem on its own.
When I found this thing I was tempted to note you on it to see if you knew of its existence and to see how you felt, because seeing it did rub my fur the wrong way, especially when I looked up targs from Star Treck and found your pelt design was unique and not copied from the show. Reading your commentary I am kinda glad I did not poke you about it P:
PS: There is someone in Mexico who made an Epona quadsuit and specifically claimed inspiration from mine, but my case is different, Epona is a game design, not my own, and so I get nothing but flattery from a case of "Beastcub showed it can be done, so I am going to make one too"
PS: There is someone in Mexico who made an Epona quadsuit and specifically claimed inspiration from mine, but my case is different, Epona is a game design, not my own, and so I get nothing but flattery from a case of "Beastcub showed it can be done, so I am going to make one too"
i know people have been told not to pester, but one can't help but worry that it may happen anyway (looks like people have mentioned it in the past, but never went beyond that). beetle is being pretty cool about it, but i just wonder if a few changes to something like the stripes on the back end would make a big difference(?). might be nice if they could talk it out.
I didnt meen to have anyone go attack them. Just pointing out who it was. I know there nice and all. Hid my comment so no one goes to try and say something rude to them. They probably though toby was a cosplay character since beetlecat went to a few cosplay conventions. Not a good place to go with an original character. :/
This CAN confuse people. Her desighn is only really in the pelt. I have never watched star trek but i thought this one was just like the leader of the tarqs or something to be honest. This person could of thought the same thing. But if not, he probably just liked your desighn more. He should of asked first though.
This CAN confuse people. Her desighn is only really in the pelt. I have never watched star trek but i thought this one was just like the leader of the tarqs or something to be honest. This person could of thought the same thing. But if not, he probably just liked your desighn more. He should of asked first though.
err, i wouldn't worry too much about (sane) people confusing them (toby is a favourite suit of mine, but this really doesn't have quite the same impact). still, that's a rather poor show on their part. but i suppose as you say, it's not 100% your own creature design, so i guess it's going to be awkward to say too much on what may seem like the same thing in their eyes.
I didn't mean he was an exact copy of a specific targ on the show (hence "not entirely original" instead of "not original"), but he *is* based on someone else's creature design. The people who copied Toby may just have thought those were "standard" targ markings and didn't know they were ripping off your part of the design.
I'm not trying to insult you, and I feel your posting was justified so that no one confuses those costumes for yours. I just feel that a lot of people in the comments here are coming down too hard on whoever made those costumes. Yeah, they're not well done, but I feel it's a cheap shot to insult them for that, since everyone's gotta start somewhere.
I'm not trying to insult you, and I feel your posting was justified so that no one confuses those costumes for yours. I just feel that a lot of people in the comments here are coming down too hard on whoever made those costumes. Yeah, they're not well done, but I feel it's a cheap shot to insult them for that, since everyone's gotta start somewhere.
Yes I agree. This entry was not about whose suit is better or worse.
However, assuming he's the only targ design in existence is not an excuse. If you are going to make a piece of art based exactly on another person's, it's reasonable to do a half a second of research on Google first :p
However, assuming he's the only targ design in existence is not an excuse. If you are going to make a piece of art based exactly on another person's, it's reasonable to do a half a second of research on Google first :p
It's so sad.
You are exactly what you want people to be like. Open, and nice, and offering advice and being really great in nurturing up and coming people with tips and things.
And then this happens.
This is exactly why people don't give advice to people, or make tutorials. It's really unfortunate and I hope it won't affect you in the future. :/
I think you're really great.
You are exactly what you want people to be like. Open, and nice, and offering advice and being really great in nurturing up and coming people with tips and things.
And then this happens.
This is exactly why people don't give advice to people, or make tutorials. It's really unfortunate and I hope it won't affect you in the future. :/
I think you're really great.
I bet since the person has an FA here once he see's this, well all the comments anyway, he will probably be completly offended, i know i would. Copied DESIGHN or not, everyone posting rude comments never solves the problem. If he liked your desighn enough to take up his time to make it, he probably wont snub people off if they though it was you, he would probably tell people that he liked the desighn and it isnt you in the suit... If i saw this i would not only be mad but really hurt. I can understand how you feal though beetle.
How they feel reading this doesn't really bug me. They knowingly did what they did so if they want to be a copy then so be it. They have had a lot of time to adjust the coloirs or markings of their suit so it looks different. TBH it really wouldn't take much of a change at all.
what is sad to me is if it were a plain ol boar it would be seen as a good costume, as far as quads go its not bad and it has a lively expression HOWEVER it being a copy of Beetle's suit though instantly makes it "bad by comparison"... which just adds to the aggravation of the whole situation.
Quads are hard to make, the copy is not a bad quad, but it is a bad copy, so really the maker just kind of shot themselves in the foot by copying Beetle's unique coloration choice :C
Quads are hard to make, the copy is not a bad quad, but it is a bad copy, so really the maker just kind of shot themselves in the foot by copying Beetle's unique coloration choice :C
Yeah, i can agree. Its a well made quad, but comparing it to beetle,s you can see the difference. He should change the desighn to make it his own character, then it would be a really nice quad. Like you said they are hard to make so him doing this is impressive, but probably should'nt make a suit that can be compared to beetles work.
I honestly don't see how anyone could mistake the other suit for yours. The other maker definitely tried and while not a Furbid Horror, it certainly doesn't meet the level of amazing work and style I've come to recognize in your suits. Great job on handling the situation so well!
Mind if I ask when Toby was made? Not to sound rude just interested because trag (the Aussie suit) is about 2 years old now and I was told by the maker the he did use tutorials, but he adapted a quad suit of a dog one, not a boar.
Again, not looking to start an argument, just curious of time frames...
Again, not looking to start an argument, just curious of time frames...
Going back in her gallery, here's a photo of him nearly finished as of Oct 2008 http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1651432/
What bothers me is that the copy-cat refuses to admit that they did, indeed, copy someone 8/ Not only in structure, overall design, colors, and markings, but even going so far as to wearing a bell around the neck just like Toby too...I mean, come on.
Any time anyone has pointed out that its blatantly a copy, and that they could have easily come up with their own Targ design, the copy-cat claims "That's just how Targs look" or "how else is a Targ ment to look? lol"
This is madly depressing, for any artist out there who's creative and works hard to come up with their own spin on fictional creatures.
ESPECIALLY because I distinctly remember Beetle saying at one point that there really isn't much information on Targs in the Star Treck universe, and that they truly are ambiguous.
This fact is what irks me the most. The copy-cat could have very easily changed colors, markings, added random spikes, more or less tusks...ANYTHING to make theirs unique and not a copy. However, they insisted on the copy-pasta method and have stuck with it all the while. That alone comes across as an individual whom doesn't have confidence enough in their own abilities and will thus hide behind someone else's image for their own gain. It's sad.
Don't worry Beetle, its obvious whom the REAL Toby is. The time, effort, and love you put into this costume shows, and that surely is something no one can imitate.
Any time anyone has pointed out that its blatantly a copy, and that they could have easily come up with their own Targ design, the copy-cat claims "That's just how Targs look" or "how else is a Targ ment to look? lol"
This is madly depressing, for any artist out there who's creative and works hard to come up with their own spin on fictional creatures.
ESPECIALLY because I distinctly remember Beetle saying at one point that there really isn't much information on Targs in the Star Treck universe, and that they truly are ambiguous.
This fact is what irks me the most. The copy-cat could have very easily changed colors, markings, added random spikes, more or less tusks...ANYTHING to make theirs unique and not a copy. However, they insisted on the copy-pasta method and have stuck with it all the while. That alone comes across as an individual whom doesn't have confidence enough in their own abilities and will thus hide behind someone else's image for their own gain. It's sad.
Don't worry Beetle, its obvious whom the REAL Toby is. The time, effort, and love you put into this costume shows, and that surely is something no one can imitate.
Aww, Toby's lesser-known younger brother was born with many deformities and was always jealous of his brother's good looks.
Honestly, it's a crappy affair and I've loved Toby, it was a joy to see him come to life in those tutorials back when you made him and it's still always a joy to see him in pictures. :3
I kinda really wish this person had at least adopted different colors for their suit, maybe? I mean... a direct attempt at a copy almost always looks really sub-par compared to the original and I'm not sure what people get out of it. :c
Honestly, it's a crappy affair and I've loved Toby, it was a joy to see him come to life in those tutorials back when you made him and it's still always a joy to see him in pictures. :3
I kinda really wish this person had at least adopted different colors for their suit, maybe? I mean... a direct attempt at a copy almost always looks really sub-par compared to the original and I'm not sure what people get out of it. :c
your Toby looks like it's made of better quality. and it's cuter <3 the front limbs look better XD
AH people do what people do... there's not enough originality in the world and not everyone can be creative on their own. /shrug
yours is the original. we know that <3
though they do say that mimicry is the greatest compliment...
copying now idk but still.
Love the suit though, very very good job on it <3
AH people do what people do... there's not enough originality in the world and not everyone can be creative on their own. /shrug
yours is the original. we know that <3
though they do say that mimicry is the greatest compliment...
copying now idk but still.
Love the suit though, very very good job on it <3
Wow...That's really very sad. People never cease to amaze me.
Anyway, it is obvious to tell the quality though. Yours looks far better, as well as far more structurally sound, if that's the right way to explain it. It is built with care and precision, as well as inspiration and creativity.
Anyway, it is obvious to tell the quality though. Yours looks far better, as well as far more structurally sound, if that's the right way to explain it. It is built with care and precision, as well as inspiration and creativity.
I am not sure if I should fave this :/ as the person who owns the second quad watches this group and if if they look at the faves, Im not sure if this would offend them or hurt them by leading them to some of these rude comments. Honestly what do you think? Then again it is my job to fave everything quadsuit :/
Do you, yourself think I should?
Do you, yourself think I should?
I know I shouldn't say this because I'm sure the person worked really hard on his/her creation however, that poor targ looks diseased and like it's been run over several times by a car.
Side note, I guess the up side of all this is that I guess it's a sort of flattery being that someone copied your Toby. Although, it is a sad, sad copy.
Side note, I guess the up side of all this is that I guess it's a sort of flattery being that someone copied your Toby. Although, it is a sad, sad copy.
Well after the owner of the suit saw this he is thinkng about going ahead and just destroying the one he made. Or he will change the desighn... i believe he is leaning towards destroying it sadley. AND YES i think its sad. I never want to see someone destroy a suit. Especially when no bad intintions were intended...
I always love how in defence of people who suffer the unfortunate “Chinese knockoff” syndrome, their defenders claim they are nice people.
It doesn’t mater if they are mother Teresa incarnate, the action itself is not a “nice” gesture”, no matter what the intentions to start were.
I do know who it is, and I have never bothered to say anything as I was sure you were aware. They have a lot of potential talent, and I hope they learn from this and continue to grow.
It doesn’t mater if they are mother Teresa incarnate, the action itself is not a “nice” gesture”, no matter what the intentions to start were.
I do know who it is, and I have never bothered to say anything as I was sure you were aware. They have a lot of potential talent, and I hope they learn from this and continue to grow.
I must say, I am extremely pleased that you left the Toby construction thread up even after this, because it's much appreciated. I may have no plans to build a quad suit of my own anytime soon, but even so, it's a fascinating thread and I'm sure it'll prove useful for many interested suit makers (it clearly already has, eheh). I'm also really impressed by your attitude throughout all of this, as always. ^^
The maker/owner of not Toby doesn't need to be childish about it. His suit was a good first quadsuit. It's just not cool he had to copy everything exactly, down to the collar and bell. Targs do not wear those, those were Toby. Why not, like domesticated swine, wear a nose ring? Why not...wear something else about the neck? Not this exact copy. He could even pull a BeBop and wear a chain for a necklace! Or was the warthog RockSteady? -headdesk- Oh, teenage mutant ninja turtles, I haven't seen you in ages. Oh! Moore ideas, domesticated swine get notches in their ears, or tags to help tell them apart. He could do that too.
I hope he does reflect a bit more and just changes up the markings, or drops the collar and gets other accesories. Honestly, my first fursuit head I made doesn't look amazing...but i love it and I did it myself...of my character. So my husky puppy gets mistaken for a cat or a cat-wolf all the time...I'll go along with it because it's more fun than going, I am a husky puppy! D: I even got him a mouse toy prop.
I hope he does reflect a bit more and just changes up the markings, or drops the collar and gets other accesories. Honestly, my first fursuit head I made doesn't look amazing...but i love it and I did it myself...of my character. So my husky puppy gets mistaken for a cat or a cat-wolf all the time...I'll go along with it because it's more fun than going, I am a husky puppy! D: I even got him a mouse toy prop.
Wowowow, talk about sad as shit. A five second google search brings up multiple designs very quickly. Is it really so hard to still follow the tutorial but change the markings..? :| It brings me much mean-spirited joy that not-Toby has a drop in quality from your gorgeous creation, to say the least... kind of amazed that people could ever confuse the two...
Is it really so hard to still follow the tutorial but change the markings
Considering that I didn't even decide on his markings until the majority of the suit was already finished, I would think not XD Hence the aggravation since if it was still the exact same design but pure brown or whatnot then I would have no issue since people would know it was a different costume more easily.
Considering that I didn't even decide on his markings until the majority of the suit was already finished, I would think not XD Hence the aggravation since if it was still the exact same design but pure brown or whatnot then I would have no issue since people would know it was a different costume more easily.
i totally don't understand why they wanted to copy your exact markings. but then there are a lot of things about people i don't understand.
if they had done the front legs better and not done the grey stuff on the back it would have been great. as it is, no offense, its oh kaaaay,
but they could have actually done a LOT better by not being so entirely imitative.
or are they both based on something i'm not aware of? they look a little like that klingon pet thing, i forget what its called.
if they had done the front legs better and not done the grey stuff on the back it would have been great. as it is, no offense, its oh kaaaay,
but they could have actually done a LOT better by not being so entirely imitative.
or are they both based on something i'm not aware of? they look a little like that klingon pet thing, i forget what its called.
I know this person through the fandom, they're lovely IRL and I can wholeheartedly assure you that they would never, ever claim to be you. I'm also appalled at some of the hurtful commentary on here. T_T
I'm pretty sure people have told you who owns it - why not contact them if you're unhappy? They're more than reasonable.
I'm pretty sure people have told you who owns it - why not contact them if you're unhappy? They're more than reasonable.
If you read all the comments above, they're been rather uh
they've not even admitted they copied beetlecat and have been denying anything like that. Beetle also just posted this purely to show who was who
what one was hers and what one wasn't.
personally, i think they kind of deserve this commentary if they're not even going to be mature and admit "yeah, they're the same" and instead try and cover their ass with bullshit sounding excuses.
they've not even admitted they copied beetlecat and have been denying anything like that. Beetle also just posted this purely to show who was who
what one was hers and what one wasn't.
personally, i think they kind of deserve this commentary if they're not even going to be mature and admit "yeah, they're the same" and instead try and cover their ass with bullshit sounding excuses.
Where have they specifically denied that it's a copy? I've read all the comments above and some of them are horrid - things like 'the knees are broken' aren't helping anyone. I've met him IRL and he's a lovely person. He's also getting threats and hate mail over this incident. It's nice that Beetlecat has a following of fans, but the the conduct of some people is just appalling at the moment.
Hence my suggestion - Beetlecat should take it up with him directly. And everyone else should just leave the damn issue alone.
Hence my suggestion - Beetlecat should take it up with him directly. And everyone else should just leave the damn issue alone.
This goes back to the 'comparison' thing. If you want people to look at your suit without comparing it to someone else's, don't make it look like someone else's. On it's own, it's definitely not that bad, even if there are a few anatomy quirks. But next to Beetlecat's...
Also agreeing that if he didn't want it to be a copy, he could have change the marking or fur color or, especially, not worn the collar and bell that is so definitive of Toby. And since there isn't any definitive detailed description of a targ, it shouldn't be hard to create one without copying another design.
Google search:
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en.....=-DqpT4uQIIeFtgfUzJ3gAg
I see five different designs (not including Toby) on the first page alone.
People are only making jokes about the suit being mangled because next to beetlecats version, it does look a little gangly.
As for beetlecat vs otherperson: I don't think Beetlecat wants to take anything up with anyone. She posted this to make sure people knew that another targ quadsuit that looks remarkably like hers exists, so that people didn't get confused.
Quote from description: "DON'T bug the maker about it. I am not mad at them (disappointed maybe). All I want is that people stop linking me photos of it, tagging me on Facebook, asking if I was at so-and-so convention, or notifying me that it exists and what am I going to do about it. The answers are don't care, not me, probably not, yes I know and nothing."
Also agreeing that if he didn't want it to be a copy, he could have change the marking or fur color or, especially, not worn the collar and bell that is so definitive of Toby. And since there isn't any definitive detailed description of a targ, it shouldn't be hard to create one without copying another design.
Google search:
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en.....=-DqpT4uQIIeFt
I see five different designs (not including Toby) on the first page alone.
People are only making jokes about the suit being mangled because next to beetlecats version, it does look a little gangly.
As for beetlecat vs otherperson: I don't think Beetlecat wants to take anything up with anyone. She posted this to make sure people knew that another targ quadsuit that looks remarkably like hers exists, so that people didn't get confused.
Quote from description: "DON'T bug the maker about it. I am not mad at them (disappointed maybe). All I want is that people stop linking me photos of it, tagging me on Facebook, asking if I was at so-and-so convention, or notifying me that it exists and what am I going to do about it. The answers are don't care, not me, probably not, yes I know and nothing."
Thing is, the other suit doesn't even have a collar or a bell - I do not know where that came from. People aren't making jokes, some of these comments are quite nasty. To quote one reply directly, "not toby is really ugly x.x how can people think you produce such shit?" this is downright rude and unhelpful.
While this post may have originally seeked to educate people, some of Beetlecat's followers have white-knighted this and sent the other artist hate-mail and threats. He's considering destroying his quadsuit, while modifications could probably suffice and settle the dust.
While this post may have originally seeked to educate people, some of Beetlecat's followers have white-knighted this and sent the other artist hate-mail and threats. He's considering destroying his quadsuit, while modifications could probably suffice and settle the dust.
... full view on this image. Not-Toby is wearing a bell. You can see it dangling particularly well in the side shot, under his neck. ...well, closer to under his chest.
Again, they're saying it by comparison. Had the suit not looked so much like Toby, I'm quite sure people would be less inclined to say it looks ugly.
It's also (while harsh, yes) an attempt by the person to reassure Beetle that the suit shouldn't be confused with hers too much. It's standard practice when someone is discovered to have copied someone elses work. Not that Beetle needs the reassurance I don't think, but it's kind of the way things go with friends. It's kind of like if two people wore the same outift to a party and their friends tell them both "well, you look better in it anyway".
Granted, it would be hard to hear things like that said about my suit. Then again, I wouldn't copy the design of a suit so... iconic, made by someone whose work is so consistently impressive.
And sending the other artist hate-mail is indeed out of line. Beetle can't control that though, and people were noticing the suit before she posted this. She isn't encouraging her followers to attack him. In fact, she's encouraging otherwise. But she doesn't have control of what other people do :/
And speaking of, what othermaker does is not anyone's decision but his own. Encourage him to think about moding it instead of destroying it. People will probably respect that more anyway, because it's owning up to something. But if he decides to detroy it, while sad, it's his decision. Maybe he'll make a different quad after that or something.
I feel bad that the guy got a lot of flak for this, and I don't approve of personal attacks at all, but to a certain extent, actions bear consequences, and perhaps he can learn from it all.
Again, they're saying it by comparison. Had the suit not looked so much like Toby, I'm quite sure people would be less inclined to say it looks ugly.
It's also (while harsh, yes) an attempt by the person to reassure Beetle that the suit shouldn't be confused with hers too much. It's standard practice when someone is discovered to have copied someone elses work. Not that Beetle needs the reassurance I don't think, but it's kind of the way things go with friends. It's kind of like if two people wore the same outift to a party and their friends tell them both "well, you look better in it anyway".
Granted, it would be hard to hear things like that said about my suit. Then again, I wouldn't copy the design of a suit so... iconic, made by someone whose work is so consistently impressive.
And sending the other artist hate-mail is indeed out of line. Beetle can't control that though, and people were noticing the suit before she posted this. She isn't encouraging her followers to attack him. In fact, she's encouraging otherwise. But she doesn't have control of what other people do :/
And speaking of, what othermaker does is not anyone's decision but his own. Encourage him to think about moding it instead of destroying it. People will probably respect that more anyway, because it's owning up to something. But if he decides to detroy it, while sad, it's his decision. Maybe he'll make a different quad after that or something.
I feel bad that the guy got a lot of flak for this, and I don't approve of personal attacks at all, but to a certain extent, actions bear consequences, and perhaps he can learn from it all.
i will agree some comments have gone a bit over the top (cruel to begin with, but especially odd when i can't even suspect most of these people could make something as good as the faux toby). but i don't think anyone said to destroy the suit; more that small changes would go a long way in showing a difference (and that a clear admittance and hats off to beetle may have softened the blow). i hope these two can talk out some design changes and things can be left at that. it's not a bad quad suit - it only looks bad when compared to the original, which seems like all the more reason to alter it really. would definitely be a shame to scrap it. features like the head already have some difference to them, so i don't see a need to scrap that. i think it's mainly just the grey, striped section that could use some altering (and perhaps the removal of the bell). (and maybe some of the negative comments can make for improvement ideas, because the knees do look a bit awkward).
Uh huh.. yeah um, NO. People should get the full story before they post such rude-ass comments. No Shout this comment isnt directed to you. I was just explaining the truth. The reast of this comment is for everyone else who were posting rude comments. He is a nice guy i have talked to him and he basically said he used the desighn. He didnt know the desighn was for an original character. After seeing. this submission and its comments, he is thinking about just destroying the one he made. Some furrys can be so over reactive and sadly stupid at times as well. No im not talking about you Shout. But the other people who were saying the truly rude comments. Some people need to go talk to the maker before they post such hurtful things or post such a submission like this... Show the difference between suits or not, posting something like this is bound for trouble and can only seriously hurt someones feelings. Really the only thing it accomplished was to make everyone who saw this angry enough to post rude things and compare the two. Kind of petty if you ask me. So i dont think they deserve this. Hurtful enough posts to make him destroy the one he created, not change, but destroy. Hopfully this comment will show people they need to understand when something has gone to far...
Beetle has a reason to post this. These were given. We can't control other's actions.
While he can claim he didn't know it was an original character, he's just full of it. I can google Targ, or think back to when I used to watch the show and saw some targs to know, hey...there's no targ that really looks like that, let alone that wears a bell. If he didn't know, why did he do it down to the bell?
I think it's a pretty good suit. I don't think it was right he copied every last thing though, regardless what he thought. I used a tutorial to make my husky pup headbase. I did not copy exactly, heck...his design was even spur of the moment, use what scraps I had to slap together! Some people will, yes, say hurtful things but I take pride knowing I made him myself. Even if everyone calls him a cat, or a cat-wolf... -shrugs- You got to learn to be a grownup and roll with the punches. I even got me some feline type props, like a mouse toy and a bell. I want to get a giant yarn ball too.
So..practice! Work on making the knee parts a little better. I'm sure if I had the money and I practiced I could make a headbase that looked more like a husky pup rather than a kitty-wolf. And maybe going and talking to a few quad makers and ask how they measure and balance out everything to walk in a quadsuit/make one more easily? I hear your supposed to use a chair and have a slight incline up, not down, to make it easier on your back. But that's just ny researching and not really talking to anyone.
While he can claim he didn't know it was an original character, he's just full of it. I can google Targ, or think back to when I used to watch the show and saw some targs to know, hey...there's no targ that really looks like that, let alone that wears a bell. If he didn't know, why did he do it down to the bell?
I think it's a pretty good suit. I don't think it was right he copied every last thing though, regardless what he thought. I used a tutorial to make my husky pup headbase. I did not copy exactly, heck...his design was even spur of the moment, use what scraps I had to slap together! Some people will, yes, say hurtful things but I take pride knowing I made him myself. Even if everyone calls him a cat, or a cat-wolf... -shrugs- You got to learn to be a grownup and roll with the punches. I even got me some feline type props, like a mouse toy and a bell. I want to get a giant yarn ball too.
So..practice! Work on making the knee parts a little better. I'm sure if I had the money and I practiced I could make a headbase that looked more like a husky pup rather than a kitty-wolf. And maybe going and talking to a few quad makers and ask how they measure and balance out everything to walk in a quadsuit/make one more easily? I hear your supposed to use a chair and have a slight incline up, not down, to make it easier on your back. But that's just ny researching and not really talking to anyone.
The fact that people can't distinguish between the real thing and not is a little sad really.
The quality from beetle can be seen a mile off!
Broken legs, back is way too arched to be comfortable to wear, feet incorrect size for size of animal on non-toby
Yes its good that the other person can make a quad suit - (im not there yet!) and i guess its a complimemnt that they are making a targ to beetles design... its probably more so the people that tag the non-Toby as Toby which is the most frustrating bit about it
Unless beetle can time travel to be on the opposite side of the world in any given moment so she can say, why yes, it was totally me at that place/ time!!
The quality from beetle can be seen a mile off!
Broken legs, back is way too arched to be comfortable to wear, feet incorrect size for size of animal on non-toby
Yes its good that the other person can make a quad suit - (im not there yet!) and i guess its a complimemnt that they are making a targ to beetles design... its probably more so the people that tag the non-Toby as Toby which is the most frustrating bit about it
Unless beetle can time travel to be on the opposite side of the world in any given moment so she can say, why yes, it was totally me at that place/ time!!
Also you may want to look into the fact your character is protected under copyright since conception and completion (this is true for any 'visual art' piece) and look into intellectual property laws. Technically he's violated both. I understand your desire to let it die, but perhaps you should champion these issues and set an example. Otherwise many more duplicates of others work will be made. Not pressing the issue just encourages people that they can get away with thievery.
Just popping in to say that a character is technically an "idea", and ideas can't be copyrighted. You can copyright specific photos and drawings of a character, but not the essence of the character itself. That falls under trademark, which you have to pay for and register for it to be in effect. Mickey Mouse is trademarked, for instance, and the whole of the short animation "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" is copyrighted.
A fan character couldn't be trademarked anyway, since T'args belong to the company that owns Star Trek. Toby looks different enough from the precious few T'args we've seen in the TV shows that Beetle could just trademark him as a boar character, if she wanted to go that route.
A fan character couldn't be trademarked anyway, since T'args belong to the company that owns Star Trek. Toby looks different enough from the precious few T'args we've seen in the TV shows that Beetle could just trademark him as a boar character, if she wanted to go that route.
The issue remains the character has specifics that were replicated that deviated from the original design of a T'arg: i.e. the stripes on the hind quarters. As this is also a 'Visual Art' piece and not the original animal used in the show, by law, beetle owns the design, if it was simply just another T'arg quad-suit I'd be inclined to agree with you, however it is a clear duplicate of the deviated original.
Let me spell it out a bit, if I took hippogryph from harry potter and changed the design of the beast and called him Fred. Then made that design corporeal, that specific design is actually owned by me. even though Rowling owns the Hippogryph. It's by no means a legal gray area.
Let me spell it out a bit, if I took hippogryph from harry potter and changed the design of the beast and called him Fred. Then made that design corporeal, that specific design is actually owned by me. even though Rowling owns the Hippogryph. It's by no means a legal gray area.
Thank you for posting this! For me it did exactly what you posted it here to do. If I had seen not-toby in real life at a convention I would've been very confused. I had no idea there was a copy out there and while I know how well Toby is done I probably would've thought the copy was Toby because of the design (maybe changed or being worn by someone else). So now I know! :) It is an unfortunate situation though, all around :(
I must say not everyone that goes to conventions has an eye for costume design and wont be able to distinguish the 2 targs.
~This is the Prime reason Beetle is making this Post.~
Not to flame the other artist as so Many People had done already like an angry plague and sadly I have seen this happen one to many occasions. A well know artist will post up a comparison photo and All hell breaks loose and everyone attacks the other artist giving harsh comments/notes threat emails thought going over the actual descritption and facts before hand is just Nutz?!?
Personally I think this photo should be described a different way or erase the horrible comments towards the other artist as to not encourage others to continue the battering. Thats just my suggestion this is your post and your personal designs so thats totally your decision.
You handled this situation well but to let it go on is not right.
~This is the Prime reason Beetle is making this Post.~
Not to flame the other artist as so Many People had done already like an angry plague and sadly I have seen this happen one to many occasions. A well know artist will post up a comparison photo and All hell breaks loose and everyone attacks the other artist giving harsh comments/notes threat emails thought going over the actual descritption and facts before hand is just Nutz?!?
Personally I think this photo should be described a different way or erase the horrible comments towards the other artist as to not encourage others to continue the battering. Thats just my suggestion this is your post and your personal designs so thats totally your decision.
You handled this situation well but to let it go on is not right.
I don't really believe in deleting submissions and I do it only extremely rarely. I asked everyone to lay off and not attack again as I did in the beginning and I trust they will do so but I'm not going to pretend nothing ever happened. It did (on all sides) and we deal with it from today on.
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