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More from technicolor_pie
I didn't really want to overstate my opinion, but I thought this up and wanted to draw it to get it out of my head. Blerp.
Category Artwork (Digital) / Comics
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 700 x 700px
File Size 680.3 kB
Hey they sort of mostly basically essentially fixed the code that let you remote-watch, remote-unwatch, remote-delete comments, remote-delete submissions, and remote-delete journals by clicking on a link, what more do you want from them Pie
What more do you want from them
LEAVE BRITTANY ALONE
What more do you want from them
LEAVE BRITTANY ALONE
http://eevee.livejournal.com/329817.html
See the date on this post? 2010?
Still relevant. There are bugs here that have not been fixed.
See the date on this post? 2010?
Still relevant. There are bugs here that have not been fixed.
No, you're not an investor. You aren't owed anything because in some twisted sense you think you're helping the site.
How ass backwards do you have to be to see that if you left tomorrow, the site wouldn't die. You're not some revolutionary that will bring about the tides of change. If you weren't here bitching about this site, you'd be on inkbunny or sofurry doing the same. People love to complain because people today think they're entitled to things.
I hope you realize that no one other than the artists get paid for putting time into FA. FA is some one's dream, some one's idea. It's not a business model, it's not here to rip money from you.
I just want to know, why you think that you are -owed- anything from the FA admins.
How ass backwards do you have to be to see that if you left tomorrow, the site wouldn't die. You're not some revolutionary that will bring about the tides of change. If you weren't here bitching about this site, you'd be on inkbunny or sofurry doing the same. People love to complain because people today think they're entitled to things.
I hope you realize that no one other than the artists get paid for putting time into FA. FA is some one's dream, some one's idea. It's not a business model, it's not here to rip money from you.
I just want to know, why you think that you are -owed- anything from the FA admins.
I'm going to quote for you the reply Firehazard left in my journal post:
"My #1 weapon against people who use that argument is that Dragoneer himself came out against it, back when FA was down for like two months straight. I saved it for posterity.
<2_gryphon> I'm not a member of the FA staff, but I have to say... How can you bitch about a free service? What, aren't you getting your money's worth?
<preyfar> if people are complaining... it's because FA meant something to them. And it doesn't bother me to be honest, because I know that means restoring the service is just that much more imperative."
Preyfar, if you're not aware, is Dragoneer.
Dragoneer himself has stated he wants to make the service the best it can be, and that he doesn't mind when people complain.
Hence, I'm not sure who you're arguing for.
"My #1 weapon against people who use that argument is that Dragoneer himself came out against it, back when FA was down for like two months straight. I saved it for posterity.
<2_gryphon> I'm not a member of the FA staff, but I have to say... How can you bitch about a free service? What, aren't you getting your money's worth?
<preyfar> if people are complaining... it's because FA meant something to them. And it doesn't bother me to be honest, because I know that means restoring the service is just that much more imperative."
Preyfar, if you're not aware, is Dragoneer.
Dragoneer himself has stated he wants to make the service the best it can be, and that he doesn't mind when people complain.
Hence, I'm not sure who you're arguing for.
No, I'm arguing for logic sake.
For the sake of rationality.
I don't know if you've ever heard of being polite but maybe, just maybe that's why he said what he said? Maybe the alternative to saying he cared was saying her didn't care. Which of course would have been met with more backlash.
Lastly. Doesn't mind and don't bother are both very different from wanting something or asking for something.
For the sake of rationality.
I don't know if you've ever heard of being polite but maybe, just maybe that's why he said what he said? Maybe the alternative to saying he cared was saying her didn't care. Which of course would have been met with more backlash.
Lastly. Doesn't mind and don't bother are both very different from wanting something or asking for something.
I've heard of being polite. Considering you're the one insulting people who didn't do the same to you over something you claim isn't important, I'm truly wondering if you have.
And I'm afraid this is where we'll have to be at a stand off, because from my point of view you're being the opposite of rational and logical. You're to the point of being a sycophant.
And I'm afraid this is where we'll have to be at a stand off, because from my point of view you're being the opposite of rational and logical. You're to the point of being a sycophant.
I didn't know there was a qualification for amount of insults before one crosses from rational to irrational. That one was enough.
Fair enough. I can play this the way you'd prefer: You think I'm projecting and egotistical. I think you're a vitriolic sycophant who actually has very little idea what he's talking about and would argue that the sky was pink if I said it was blue at this point.
Fair enough. I can play this the way you'd prefer: You think I'm projecting and egotistical. I think you're a vitriolic sycophant who actually has very little idea what he's talking about and would argue that the sky was pink if I said it was blue at this point.
I wouldn't need to argue if you actually told me why you think you're entitled to complain.
Something I believe I asked for before, which you avoided. I believe this is because you don't actually have a reason.
As for the insults, well if you call twit a line crossing insult I'd suggest you stay away from television, lest your sensitive ears be lashed by harsh words.
Something I believe I asked for before, which you avoided. I believe this is because you don't actually have a reason.
As for the insults, well if you call twit a line crossing insult I'd suggest you stay away from television, lest your sensitive ears be lashed by harsh words.
<i>I wouldn't need to argue if you actually told me why you think you're entitled to complain.
</i>
I did tell you. You disliked the answer and kept arguing.
So now you're just lying.
And when did I say it crossed a line for me? You said you were being rational. I said a rational argument doesn't involve name-calling You called someone a twit. The level of the insult doesn't even come into play here.
</i>
I did tell you. You disliked the answer and kept arguing.
So now you're just lying.
And when did I say it crossed a line for me? You said you were being rational. I said a rational argument doesn't involve name-calling You called someone a twit. The level of the insult doesn't even come into play here.
I said: I am invested in this site, in that I invest my time by posting art here.
I wouldn't need to argue if you actually told me why you think you're entitled to complain.
There is no addendum to this sentence that says 'I wouldn't need to argue UNLESS I DISAGREE WITH WHY YOU THINK YOU'RE ENTITLED', so I'd expect you're done now right?
I wouldn't need to argue if you actually told me why you think you're entitled to complain.
There is no addendum to this sentence that says 'I wouldn't need to argue UNLESS I DISAGREE WITH WHY YOU THINK YOU'RE ENTITLED', so I'd expect you're done now right?
But you aren't an investor, that's the thing.
You are not investing money into the website so you can see a return, that's what an investor does.
You'd have to actually put money in, other than donating.
I hate to be a broken record but man, you are egotistical. Do you imagine arguments like some sort of Dragon ball Z fight in which each sentence you imagine is the killing blow?
You are not investing money into the website so you can see a return, that's what an investor does.
You'd have to actually put money in, other than donating.
I hate to be a broken record but man, you are egotistical. Do you imagine arguments like some sort of Dragon ball Z fight in which each sentence you imagine is the killing blow?
Because its the internet
and everyone is entitled to say what ever they want.
the fact is that she is saying that the site is broken!
and no amount of you saying "why do you think your entitled to complain?"
will change the fact that she has a right to
and in all honesty. its just a little joke poking fun at the website. your the one that getting uber emotional over it.
and everyone is entitled to say what ever they want.
the fact is that she is saying that the site is broken!
and no amount of you saying "why do you think your entitled to complain?"
will change the fact that she has a right to
and in all honesty. its just a little joke poking fun at the website. your the one that getting uber emotional over it.
"No, you're not an investor. You aren't owed anything because in some twisted sense you think you're helping the site."
what is an ART site without ARTISTS?
"How ass backwards do you have to be to see that if you left tomorrow, the site wouldn't die."
she might not be the only "investor" but any artist with fans leaving this site is a fairly important drop in the bucket. users come here to see their favorite artists, and one leaving is one less tie a user has to stay with the site.
"If you weren't here bitching about this site, you'd be on inkbunny or sofurry doing the same. People love to complain because people today think they're entitled to things.
I hope you realize that no one other than the artists get paid for putting time into FA. FA is some one's dream, some one's idea. It's not a business model, it's not here to rip money from you."
faaaaaaaart
"I just want to know, why you think that you are -owed- anything from the FA admins."
see above
what is an ART site without ARTISTS?
"How ass backwards do you have to be to see that if you left tomorrow, the site wouldn't die."
she might not be the only "investor" but any artist with fans leaving this site is a fairly important drop in the bucket. users come here to see their favorite artists, and one leaving is one less tie a user has to stay with the site.
"If you weren't here bitching about this site, you'd be on inkbunny or sofurry doing the same. People love to complain because people today think they're entitled to things.
I hope you realize that no one other than the artists get paid for putting time into FA. FA is some one's dream, some one's idea. It's not a business model, it's not here to rip money from you."
faaaaaaaart
"I just want to know, why you think that you are -owed- anything from the FA admins."
see above
I love how you addressed things with some a proper and well thought out argument.
You don't have any idea what an investor is. Secondly, what if this sight was like DA, charging for premium memberships? Maybe you'll have a right to complain when they start taking a percentage of artist's commission money to pay for the site bandwidth.
You don't have any idea what an investor is. Secondly, what if this sight was like DA, charging for premium memberships? Maybe you'll have a right to complain when they start taking a percentage of artist's commission money to pay for the site bandwidth.
that investor thing was a metaphor.
fa wouldn't be plaguing the internet if their weren't popular artists here to draw users to it.
they contribute to the site, and the site gives them a stage to show off their skills and earn commissions. it's a give and take for both, but the stage is all smelly and rotting and needs some serious fixing. all the fa admins want to do is put a new decorative banner up.
fa wouldn't be plaguing the internet if their weren't popular artists here to draw users to it.
they contribute to the site, and the site gives them a stage to show off their skills and earn commissions. it's a give and take for both, but the stage is all smelly and rotting and needs some serious fixing. all the fa admins want to do is put a new decorative banner up.
It's actually just a give.
Since you're not aware, FA is a self sufficient website. Neer is not sitting behind the monitor watching the dollars rake in.
THis website gives artists a platform, that's what neer wanted when he started the website. If He had wanted to make money, I imagine there would be a lot more incentive for donating or 'purchasing' things.
Since you're not aware, FA is a self sufficient website. Neer is not sitting behind the monitor watching the dollars rake in.
THis website gives artists a platform, that's what neer wanted when he started the website. If He had wanted to make money, I imagine there would be a lot more incentive for donating or 'purchasing' things.
You have coder friends now do you?
So what about the title bar up top? What about their constant work on the complete overhaul of the website?
OOooooh you were being small minded and just looking at what was put right in front of you, how silly of to me to think you rational.
This whole business thing is exactly what I said but far more drawn out. THis is some one's dream, not a business. This is why he pays out of pocket.
I'd also like to point out that it has absolutely nothing to do with sloth or laziness. It has everything to do with people not always wanting to spend their free time working on a website which is obviously full of ingrates.
So what about the title bar up top? What about their constant work on the complete overhaul of the website?
OOooooh you were being small minded and just looking at what was put right in front of you, how silly of to me to think you rational.
This whole business thing is exactly what I said but far more drawn out. THis is some one's dream, not a business. This is why he pays out of pocket.
I'd also like to point out that it has absolutely nothing to do with sloth or laziness. It has everything to do with people not always wanting to spend their free time working on a website which is obviously full of ingrates.
I'm pretty much done at this point.
Stating standards for a free to use website, pathetic. You compare FA to VCL, that's absolutely absurd. VCL never looked anywhere as good as FA does. Which I agree is still bad. ( Which is why I mention the thing you seemed to leave out, the fact that they're working on a complete overhaul of the website's layout.). Then you compare it to DA, which as I recall has a large staff to help it along and a premium membership that brings in cash.
I don't honestly think you've checked out the alternatives to FA, if you did, you wouldn't be complaining anywhere near as much.
Stating standards for a free to use website, pathetic. You compare FA to VCL, that's absolutely absurd. VCL never looked anywhere as good as FA does. Which I agree is still bad. ( Which is why I mention the thing you seemed to leave out, the fact that they're working on a complete overhaul of the website's layout.). Then you compare it to DA, which as I recall has a large staff to help it along and a premium membership that brings in cash.
I don't honestly think you've checked out the alternatives to FA, if you did, you wouldn't be complaining anywhere near as much.
Oh, I didn't mean that comment directly at you, sorry if it did. xD
But yes, I see your point. However, given the current situations, people really don't have much to choose from. I mean, it's literally Inkbunny, or Sofurry if they want to upload their artwork (If it's porn.)
I personally see Sofurry as the lesser of two evils. It's already established, and they pretty much let you upload almost any kind of artwork there (Cub porn is unfortunately over there, too). However, they give you the option to filter out the shit that you don't want to see, and tagging is enforced more over there than it is over here.
People can also turn off that stupid cum counter, so they won't even really be bothered by it. Someone sends you a creepy comment about your work? Comment can be deleted, you can ignore the person, or chastise them for giving too much information than you really wanted.
But yes, I see your point. However, given the current situations, people really don't have much to choose from. I mean, it's literally Inkbunny, or Sofurry if they want to upload their artwork (If it's porn.)
I personally see Sofurry as the lesser of two evils. It's already established, and they pretty much let you upload almost any kind of artwork there (Cub porn is unfortunately over there, too). However, they give you the option to filter out the shit that you don't want to see, and tagging is enforced more over there than it is over here.
People can also turn off that stupid cum counter, so they won't even really be bothered by it. Someone sends you a creepy comment about your work? Comment can be deleted, you can ignore the person, or chastise them for giving too much information than you really wanted.
I normally don't like getting involved in arguments, I'm not very good with debates, I just wanted to put in my two cents.
You seem to have this idea that not a single user has donated.
He doesn't pay completely out of his pocket, not to mention some artists(myself included) have bought advertisements from here. There is SOME money involved.
Wouldn't they try at least for the ones who actually have donated?
Not to mention- they don't have to take the time to please said ingrates, they can just end the site right now and be free from the shackles of complaints if it's so horrible. Those ingrates would probably move to sites where the admins cared about the users and have a much more pleasant experience with the other artists and friends that will main there instead of here.
You seem to have this idea that not a single user has donated.
He doesn't pay completely out of his pocket, not to mention some artists(myself included) have bought advertisements from here. There is SOME money involved.
Wouldn't they try at least for the ones who actually have donated?
Not to mention- they don't have to take the time to please said ingrates, they can just end the site right now and be free from the shackles of complaints if it's so horrible. Those ingrates would probably move to sites where the admins cared about the users and have a much more pleasant experience with the other artists and friends that will main there instead of here.
Let's look at it from a different perspective.
Let's say we're talking about Facebook (prior to the site going public). Say Facebook has a bunch of holes that would let people delete your posts, delete your friends, like their pages, dislike your pages, delete comments, etc. Then instead of fixing these holes, Facebook just updates the UI of the site like they did with the Timeline, even though they're well aware of these holes going back several years.
Would Facebook users have a right to complain about these security holes? After all, Facebook is a free service. In your words, if you're not a Facebook investor, you have no right to complain or ask that your Facebook experience be more secure. Facebook would have no obligation to fix any security holes. Besides, do you know how much work went into making the Timeline? How dare you complain?
Let's say we're talking about Facebook (prior to the site going public). Say Facebook has a bunch of holes that would let people delete your posts, delete your friends, like their pages, dislike your pages, delete comments, etc. Then instead of fixing these holes, Facebook just updates the UI of the site like they did with the Timeline, even though they're well aware of these holes going back several years.
Would Facebook users have a right to complain about these security holes? After all, Facebook is a free service. In your words, if you're not a Facebook investor, you have no right to complain or ask that your Facebook experience be more secure. Facebook would have no obligation to fix any security holes. Besides, do you know how much work went into making the Timeline? How dare you complain?
Well, it's good to know that if I ever build a website or any sort of program that I'm under absolutely no obligation to provide my users with a secure and bug-free experience, as long as it's free.
I guess that means you don't have any right to complain about bugs or security holes in Internet Explorer, Firefox, Chrome, etc. because all of those are free, too. Oh, if your email gets hijacked, you can't complain because it's free. If your free virus scanner fails to protect you, you can't complain because it's free. I'm sure everyone who makes any free software or websites will be thrilled to know they can just hang it up and not give a shit about the quality of their products because it's free. Fuck all those freeloaders, huh?
I guess that means you don't have any right to complain about bugs or security holes in Internet Explorer, Firefox, Chrome, etc. because all of those are free, too. Oh, if your email gets hijacked, you can't complain because it's free. If your free virus scanner fails to protect you, you can't complain because it's free. I'm sure everyone who makes any free software or websites will be thrilled to know they can just hang it up and not give a shit about the quality of their products because it's free. Fuck all those freeloaders, huh?
And yet you think that providing a free service entitles them to produce a half-assed product.
It isn't that they owe us anything. It's a basic expectation of a secure and functional product.
Yes, I was using a sarcastic tone, but I was 100% serious with what I said. You think that anyone that gives their product or service for free has no obligation to ensure their product is bug-free and secure. What if everyone followed that creed? Think of all the free products and services you use. Do you not care if those are secure? Do you not care if they're bug-free?
You call me egotistical to think that a provider of a free product or service owes it to their users to ensure that their product is secure and bug-free. I say it's egotistical of the providers to have such a contemptuous view of their user base that they feel it unnecessary to fix glaring flaws in their product and instead use their time on a flashy UI that does nothing to change the broken back-end.
It isn't that they owe us anything. It's a basic expectation of a secure and functional product.
Yes, I was using a sarcastic tone, but I was 100% serious with what I said. You think that anyone that gives their product or service for free has no obligation to ensure their product is bug-free and secure. What if everyone followed that creed? Think of all the free products and services you use. Do you not care if those are secure? Do you not care if they're bug-free?
You call me egotistical to think that a provider of a free product or service owes it to their users to ensure that their product is secure and bug-free. I say it's egotistical of the providers to have such a contemptuous view of their user base that they feel it unnecessary to fix glaring flaws in their product and instead use their time on a flashy UI that does nothing to change the broken back-end.
You're being pretentious now. Talking like FA admins are maniacal people whom are getting pleasure from watching people suffer.
Not once did I say it was ok to provide a faulty service. ( Not a product, Products by definition are sold.). I'm simply stating that it's not OK for users to be ungrateful twits when something doesn't go there way. The current problems on FA only effect a percentage of the population, whilst these updates effect everyone. I'm sorry if you think making a handful of people happy outweighs making the majority happy, that's egotistical.
You're really blowing this whole deal so far out of proportion that you've lost all sense of context.
Not once did I say it was ok to provide a faulty service. ( Not a product, Products by definition are sold.). I'm simply stating that it's not OK for users to be ungrateful twits when something doesn't go there way. The current problems on FA only effect a percentage of the population, whilst these updates effect everyone. I'm sorry if you think making a handful of people happy outweighs making the majority happy, that's egotistical.
You're really blowing this whole deal so far out of proportion that you've lost all sense of context.
I was escalating the issue to try and make a point of how absurd it is that people who use a free service have no right to complain.
By the way, I just looked up "product" in the dictionary and there's no mention of "sold" in there at all, which is something you may want to check before you claim how a word is defined. Products are things that are produced, whether or not they are sold for monetary gain. Computer software are products, and many of them are free. But I digress...
The current problems on FA, as in the security holes, have the potential to affect every user on the site. It isn't just the vocal minority who is affected by it. It's not an isolated problem. It's an issue with the site's code that affects everyone. Just because the majority of people either don't know about the holes or just don't care doesn't make the issue any less valid. Having site-wide security holes is providing a faulty service.
By the way, I just looked up "product" in the dictionary and there's no mention of "sold" in there at all, which is something you may want to check before you claim how a word is defined. Products are things that are produced, whether or not they are sold for monetary gain. Computer software are products, and many of them are free. But I digress...
The current problems on FA, as in the security holes, have the potential to affect every user on the site. It isn't just the vocal minority who is affected by it. It's not an isolated problem. It's an issue with the site's code that affects everyone. Just because the majority of people either don't know about the holes or just don't care doesn't make the issue any less valid. Having site-wide security holes is providing a faulty service.
and FurAffinity is not free. you see the advertisements at the top and bottom of the page? they cost money. The site has donators that pay money to keep the site in good repair, which has fallen on it's face. people who were willing to help repair the code issues were turned down by the admin. I'm not one to argue, but there is a certain level of security that must be upheld, whether a site is free or not. it's this kind of blatant attitude that had the government trying to pass SOPA and PIPA acts. And I assure you, FA would be the first to go if that law had passed, make no mistake.
But did he pay for that toy boat repair, or was it done as a free service?
I mean, I understand he's stuck using that toy boat for his primary source of income, and that nobody else has the power to fix that toy boat. And that switching to another method of toy transportation is difficult because of poor support and low adoption rates of the alternatives... not to mention that one toy train that works really well but is plagued with some notion that it contains only pedophiles.
I don't really know where this was going, I just got home from work and I'm really tired.
I mean, I understand he's stuck using that toy boat for his primary source of income, and that nobody else has the power to fix that toy boat. And that switching to another method of toy transportation is difficult because of poor support and low adoption rates of the alternatives... not to mention that one toy train that works really well but is plagued with some notion that it contains only pedophiles.
I don't really know where this was going, I just got home from work and I'm really tired.
Yay for vague might-be-a metaphors and everyone being Jesus in purgatory!
The way Sinjo presents his arguments reminds me of the mindset of a member of the Theives Guild.
Guy: "Throw me the rope!"
Theif: "Throw me your wallet."
Guy: "Stop joking around and throw me the rope!"
Theif: "My services aint free! If you want free then get the rope yourself."
You see most people, that's "most" when referring to society in North America (I can't speak for elsewhere), are willing to lend a helping hand without ulterior motive.
"Got a light?" "Sure!"
"Can I get some gum?" "Okay."
"Can I borrow your phone so I can call home?" "Cool, just don't drop it."
But it seems like Sinjo wants a world where people helping people doesn't happen.
"Got a light?" "The nearest corner store is that-a way."
"Can I get some gum?" "Sure! Here!" *opens mouth*
"Can I borrow your phone so I can call home?" "Do I look like a payphone to you? Find some other mook that you can borrow from. Parasite."
A world with no one acting on empathy is not a world that I want to live in.
And that's really all I have to say on the matter.
Guy: "Throw me the rope!"
Theif: "Throw me your wallet."
Guy: "Stop joking around and throw me the rope!"
Theif: "My services aint free! If you want free then get the rope yourself."
You see most people, that's "most" when referring to society in North America (I can't speak for elsewhere), are willing to lend a helping hand without ulterior motive.
"Got a light?" "Sure!"
"Can I get some gum?" "Okay."
"Can I borrow your phone so I can call home?" "Cool, just don't drop it."
But it seems like Sinjo wants a world where people helping people doesn't happen.
"Got a light?" "The nearest corner store is that-a way."
"Can I get some gum?" "Sure! Here!" *opens mouth*
"Can I borrow your phone so I can call home?" "Do I look like a payphone to you? Find some other mook that you can borrow from. Parasite."
A world with no one acting on empathy is not a world that I want to live in.
And that's really all I have to say on the matter.
I did a trade with a person at a convention that I later found to be a fairly well known artist. All I knew was I was in an art room and everyone was passing around sketchbooks to trade. I had done a trade with this person last year and she was very sweet and drew a picture of similar quality to mine, so I was expecting a level trade this time, as well.
No such luck. As I was still working on drawing hers, she dropped my book on the table with a 30-second sketch that was far below anything I've seen in the art room (and that's saying a lot), and said without any prompt, "Well, get what you pay for..." and walked off to chat with friends and wait for me to give hers back. I was so offended but I finished hers of my usual quality and handed it back to her without a word.
No such luck. As I was still working on drawing hers, she dropped my book on the table with a 30-second sketch that was far below anything I've seen in the art room (and that's saying a lot), and said without any prompt, "Well, get what you pay for..." and walked off to chat with friends and wait for me to give hers back. I was so offended but I finished hers of my usual quality and handed it back to her without a word.
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