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Our 2 year old rat Baloo modeling a rat sweater made for paisleypaw's rat.
Baloo isn't sure how he feels about the PINK, but he had no issue getting it on, which was very reassuring (we have SIX RATS -- I chose Baloo to model the sweater because he seemed to measure the closest to the rat this sweater is intended for). He just shoved his little head right through the neck and let me put his little legs through the holes like it was nothing. He is usually very compliant though, so I'm not surprised. :3
Hopefully your rat feels the same way, paisleypaw!
Anyway, the yarn is really nice high quality alpaca/acrylic blend. It has a nice soft feel though it's thick (the owner of the sweater is a hairless rat, so I wanted to make sure it wasn't a rough fiber for her...)
Baloo isn't sure how he feels about the PINK, but he had no issue getting it on, which was very reassuring (we have SIX RATS -- I chose Baloo to model the sweater because he seemed to measure the closest to the rat this sweater is intended for). He just shoved his little head right through the neck and let me put his little legs through the holes like it was nothing. He is usually very compliant though, so I'm not surprised. :3
Hopefully your rat feels the same way, paisleypaw!
Anyway, the yarn is really nice high quality alpaca/acrylic blend. It has a nice soft feel though it's thick (the owner of the sweater is a hairless rat, so I wanted to make sure it wasn't a rough fiber for her...)
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Just wanted to say thank you one, for having a badass icon and reppin' some Manilla love, and second, for knowing wtf you're talking about when it comes to ratties and their care. You were entirely right in that whole debacle, and handled it far better than I would. So..yeah. Have some random love :D
i know. all tanks have tags with the rats names.. as they all have names. all are rigged with fans so they have air flow. they are all friendly and are pets.
we also breed for snakes.. as we have them. but we also breed dumbos for pets only. the numbers always change as we have many having babies.. 2 did today.
i have 55 rats!
we also breed for snakes.. as we have them. but we also breed dumbos for pets only. the numbers always change as we have many having babies.. 2 did today.
i have 55 rats!
they provide better ;) Fans provide a consistant flow of fresh air and the tanks? effin huge man. bigger than most cages.
They have climbing space, they have toys, swings and houses, you name it.
I know you probly have alot of pride and even if what im saying to you is getting through your head, you wont admit it :) thats ok.
We will sit here knowing our rats are well taken care of while you sit there THINKING you know what you're talking about.
They have climbing space, they have toys, swings and houses, you name it.
I know you probly have alot of pride and even if what im saying to you is getting through your head, you wont admit it :) thats ok.
We will sit here knowing our rats are well taken care of while you sit there THINKING you know what you're talking about.
LOLOLOL fucking cramped.. are you for real.. we have 100 gal tanks and 55 gal tanks and 35 gal tanks.. not all 55 are in the same bloody tank.. we are not fucking stupid.. you seem to think you know everything BUT you dont know shit.. dont judge me when you dont know anything about me.. i love my rats. they are all cared for and loved.. dont sit here thinking you know ANYTHING about what my rats do or dont have..
we make toys for them and change the toys often.. you DRESS your damn rats up.. sure they LOVE that.. see dont judge me.. you know nothing. your being an asshole.. so get over yourself.. you dont know anything about me or my rat set up.. HAVE you seen it.. NO so stop thinking you know everything.. you DONT!
we make toys for them and change the toys often.. you DRESS your damn rats up.. sure they LOVE that.. see dont judge me.. you know nothing. your being an asshole.. so get over yourself.. you dont know anything about me or my rat set up.. HAVE you seen it.. NO so stop thinking you know everything.. you DONT!
Obviously if we are going to disagree about whether it is appropriate to permanently house rats in aquariums then the conversation has already ended. Though honestly I cannot imagine having adequate space in a non-mansion house for the amount and size of tanks it would require to comfortably house 55 rats. I also cannot imagine having the amount of time needed to give them all attention.
Maybe you live in some sort of strange interdimensional rip in which these things are possible, in which case, I'm glad.
And for the record, I do not "dress my rats up". The sweater is 1. for a commissioner and 2. there isn't anything wrong with putting it on a rat provided that the rat isn't stressed out. I think it's pretty clear from the photos of this particular rat and any other picture I've ever taken of them that they are healthy and not distressed.
But whatever, honestly I'm not the one shitting bricks here. You can do what you like. :V
Maybe you live in some sort of strange interdimensional rip in which these things are possible, in which case, I'm glad.
And for the record, I do not "dress my rats up". The sweater is 1. for a commissioner and 2. there isn't anything wrong with putting it on a rat provided that the rat isn't stressed out. I think it's pretty clear from the photos of this particular rat and any other picture I've ever taken of them that they are healthy and not distressed.
But whatever, honestly I'm not the one shitting bricks here. You can do what you like. :V
LOL we have the room. we have the time.. and about 30 of the rats are new born.. so hmmm they LIVE with there MOM.. so really they take up NO space at all. the moms all have there OWN space with there babies. and we have 4 moms with babies right now..
and the tanks are bigger then ANY cage you have.. its 4.5 feet long by 2 feet tall and wide. so i dont know what the problem is. its HUGE. and in other tanks they only have up to 4 rats in them.. lots of room and things to climb on and play in... we care for them alot.. and we do have time for them. they are all clean fed and watered.
im not sure why you seem to think we cant care for them if we dont live in a HUGE house.. you dont know our life.. so how can you say we dont have time or room... YOU dont know..
and the tanks are bigger then ANY cage you have.. its 4.5 feet long by 2 feet tall and wide. so i dont know what the problem is. its HUGE. and in other tanks they only have up to 4 rats in them.. lots of room and things to climb on and play in... we care for them alot.. and we do have time for them. they are all clean fed and watered.
im not sure why you seem to think we cant care for them if we dont live in a HUGE house.. you dont know our life.. so how can you say we dont have time or room... YOU dont know..
4.5ftx2ftx2ft!? THAT'S IT!? Each rat requires 2ft squared, female rats, 1.5ft. I hope you have under a handful of rats in those cages. Especially since the 4.5 height doesn't really matter since they can't climb glass walls.
I can say I do know because any respectable rat owner and breeder knows that that is unacceptable for rats. Any basic care guide can tell you this. And yes, I would LOVE pictures.
I can say I do know because any respectable rat owner and breeder knows that that is unacceptable for rats. Any basic care guide can tell you this. And yes, I would LOVE pictures.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/8129510/
wow look how cramped that is.. with only 7 small rats in it.. wow how do they move
wow look how cramped that is.. with only 7 small rats in it.. wow how do they move
*points to above comment*
I really do wish people would stop assuming things like:
The rats are all in 1 tank (that tank has a grand total of 7, woooooo)
The rats have no climbing aperatus (many metal grids are placed within)
most of the rats are babies who cant even see yet
She is getting on the picture, wether you are open minded to it or not is really up to your pride
I really do wish people would stop assuming things like:
The rats are all in 1 tank (that tank has a grand total of 7, woooooo)
The rats have no climbing aperatus (many metal grids are placed within)
most of the rats are babies who cant even see yet
She is getting on the picture, wether you are open minded to it or not is really up to your pride
That's.....All they have for climbing? Some little wire squares, a box, and a little wooden swing? You...You call that stimulating for a rat? Also, I hope you move them to separate cages when they grow up and all. There is no where near enough room for 7 rats in there. I would say space is pressed for three full grown rats.
dude get bent.. you know nothing at all. they have lots.. they also come out and play with us.. you dont know shit.. go look at the picture he sent.. THATS what REAL breeders do.. ours are way better off them most..
PLEASE remember.. we BREED for damn food. and they have a great life till they become just that.. so get over yourself as you dont know shit about our rats. who are all friendly and loved
PLEASE remember.. we BREED for damn food. and they have a great life till they become just that.. so get over yourself as you dont know shit about our rats. who are all friendly and loved
"i know. all tanks have tags with the rats names.. as they all have names. all are rigged with fans so they have air flow. they are all friendly and are pets.
we also breed for snakes.. as we have them. but we also breed dumbos for pets only. the numbers always change as we have many having babies.. 2 did today."
Look at that. ARE PETS. BREED DUMBOS FOR PETS ONLY.
we also breed for snakes.. as we have them. but we also breed dumbos for pets only. the numbers always change as we have many having babies.. 2 did today."
Look at that. ARE PETS. BREED DUMBOS FOR PETS ONLY.
feeders and pets are all the same till they die.
OUR SNAKES WILL NOT EAT A DEAD RAT GET OVER IT. the rat never knows till its dead.. no stress fast and done.
all the breeders we use are pets, they are held and loved.
im not sure where your going with this.. you said you hated tanks.. not if my rats are pets and food. so no idea why you care what the rats become
OUR SNAKES WILL NOT EAT A DEAD RAT GET OVER IT. the rat never knows till its dead.. no stress fast and done.
all the breeders we use are pets, they are held and loved.
im not sure where your going with this.. you said you hated tanks.. not if my rats are pets and food. so no idea why you care what the rats become
Because it also concerns the welfare of your snakes. A cornered and trapped prey animal is DEADLY. All it takes it a bite and bye-bye snakey. Snakes can be trained to eat dead food. I care because it affects the welfare and health of the animals involved, which you clearly do not care about.
wow.. you have no right to say i dont care for my pets.. your a lame ass who thinks they know everything.. you dont know.. we tried to feed dead.. and ended up tossing the rat out.. they will not eat dead.. and besides that.. deadly.. really. the rats walk on the snakes as if they are not there.. they are NEVER cornered they are dead to fast for that anyways.. and my snakes.. way bigger then any rat they get fed.
I have never heard of a legitimate snake-breeder who feeds live? Every reptile convention I've ever been to has been full of snakes that can be fead dead mice or rats. they sell giant things of dead rodents for the purpose. It's just not practical to feed live most of the time (though obviously there's an exception for you and your thousandrats).
Aaand when I snoop through your scraps there's this picture where you're like, "it's my first pet snake!" and the snake is tiny. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something, but how does this warrant 55 rats? I hope you at least tried dead feeding more than once?
Aaand when I snoop through your scraps there's this picture where you're like, "it's my first pet snake!" and the snake is tiny. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something, but how does this warrant 55 rats? I hope you at least tried dead feeding more than once?
wow cuz hes NOT my only snake.. ever think of that? and i dont know anyone who feeds dead.. not even the pet stores do.. so dont sit here and think you know everything. some snakes dont eat dead.. mine dont so i feed live.. dont like it i dont give a crap.. they are my pets not yours.. you worry about your damn animals ill worry about mine.
"this is my new pet snake.. also my first one ever!"
I'm just saying. That was two months ago that you got your first snake and now you have enough to warrant 55 feeder rats? AND you're comparing to pet store snakes as a good standard? Honestly I don't care what you think, but I do think it's pretty clear that there's something wrong with your arguments here and at the very least you should be better at getting your stories straight.
I'm just saying. That was two months ago that you got your first snake and now you have enough to warrant 55 feeder rats? AND you're comparing to pet store snakes as a good standard? Honestly I don't care what you think, but I do think it's pretty clear that there's something wrong with your arguments here and at the very least you should be better at getting your stories straight.
Pet stores are a really horrible thing to base your knowledge on. As a former pet store employee and someone who has researched animal care extensively from a number of different viewpoints, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that pet store employees are improperly trained to deal with all of the animals that are with their care, are told blatantly wrong information and pushed to sell products that are often harmful for animals.
This is because pet stores are in animal care for profit, not because they actually care about animals. Most pet store employees are the same way, unless they happen to already like animals or have researched for themselves, as was the case with me... and why I was promptly fired. c:
And defending poor practice by saying they are "your pets" is really concerning. So what if they are "your pets"? They aren't property and if you are doing something wrong you should know.
And some snakes WON'T eat dead but they CAN be trained to eat dead. Infections are so deadly in most reptiles and I can't imagine willingly putting my pet in danger for something that is fixable with a little patience.
This is because pet stores are in animal care for profit, not because they actually care about animals. Most pet store employees are the same way, unless they happen to already like animals or have researched for themselves, as was the case with me... and why I was promptly fired. c:
And defending poor practice by saying they are "your pets" is really concerning. So what if they are "your pets"? They aren't property and if you are doing something wrong you should know.
And some snakes WON'T eat dead but they CAN be trained to eat dead. Infections are so deadly in most reptiles and I can't imagine willingly putting my pet in danger for something that is fixable with a little patience.
well cuz i really dont give a rats ass what you all have to say.. im done with your bull crap. my rats and snakes are well cared for.. always held and fed watered clean cage and so on.. i know how well they are cared for and thats all that maters.. you can sit there on your high horse and think what you want.. but i know how we care for them. and like we said... MOST of the bloody rats are GOD DAMN BABIES... so im sure as a fomer pet store whatthefuckever you know rats can have HUGE damn litters. so shut up on things you dont know about in MY house.. they are my pets and i love them.. im sure as hell not going to mistreat my fucking pets.
get over yourself and leave others alone.. you know nothing about our life or what we are doing. so it does not matter. you cant judge us and what we do as you have never been here to see the rats.. they all have a lot of room and things to play with. i know how to care for animals. thanks!
get over yourself and leave others alone.. you know nothing about our life or what we are doing. so it does not matter. you cant judge us and what we do as you have never been here to see the rats.. they all have a lot of room and things to play with. i know how to care for animals. thanks!
well i DIDNT start it.. so really not my problem. i said it was cute.. that was all.. the poster is the one who went off about how many rats i have also my rats are loved before they are fed.. and live a great life.. who the fuck are you to say anything other then that. you dont know me.. so get over yourself and get off your high horse.. you make ME sick sitting here with your bull shit on how you seem to KNOW how my rats are treated.. i know they are treated great.. so go to hell.
The way you are acting does not reflect on you in any good light, whatsoever. The more angry, defensive, and insulting you get, the worse you and your position look. Also, we CAN say how you care for your rats. You posted their DEPLORABLE cage! It's now deleted, but I have screencaps. The more you tell people to go to hell, choke on dicks (something I personally enjoy), etc. The more it looks like you are just trying to cover your ass since you know you're in the wrong.
Also, just because you don't know anyone who doesn't feed dead, doesn't mean it isn't good practice. Many people believe that rodent and puppy mills are totally legit! Some people believe pet stores are good places to buy their pets! Doesn't mean it is right, good, or healthy. As Mothball said, pet stores are about profit and there are petitions going around that pet stores shouldn't even sell animals, that is should be left to responsible people.
Also, it seems like you breed willy-nilly. Do you look into the genetics of your pets? Make sure that they aren't prone to issues? You have said that you breed DUMBOS FOR PETS. If this is so, I hope you cull your litters (which is seems you don't), that you breed for genetics, health, etc. Did you know poorly bred rats are bad for your snakes?
Also, it seems like you breed willy-nilly. Do you look into the genetics of your pets? Make sure that they aren't prone to issues? You have said that you breed DUMBOS FOR PETS. If this is so, I hope you cull your litters (which is seems you don't), that you breed for genetics, health, etc. Did you know poorly bred rats are bad for your snakes?
Firstly, 50 rats is too many for someone who casually owns them, whether for breeding, feeding, or pets. I don't say that to be mean, it is literally too many rats for someone who is not rich to take care of, unless you are avoiding vet costs. Rat have short lifespans, are prone to URIs and cancer, and are expensive to feed and house if you are doing it properly. This means feeding a raw diet (70-ish% grain, fruit, veggies, and protein 2-3 times a week) OR high quality lab blocks (Mazuri, Oxbow, Suebee, etc), in which case they need to be supplemented with vitamins, fruits and veggies.
Secondly, the current housing for your rats is inappropriate. Rats need a highly ventilated cage, and an aquarium tank may suffice for 2 or 3 rats, but not for more than 5, regardless of having a fan on them or not (this is a bad idea with aspen bedding anyway, it stirs up a lot of dust and rats have sensitive lungs). Rats need less "running" space and more vertical space. 2 places to climb are not enough. Ramps, hammocks, tubes, toys, stimulation - this is a requirement, as rats are very social and intelligent animals. Putting them in a cage with little or no stimulation leads to increased fights, stress, infections, aggressiveness, and other psychological and physical issues.
Health-wise, I seriously doubt you are taking health and genetics into consideration when breeding your rodents. Breeding white or mostly-white rats can lead to a condition called megacolon in the offspring. This is basically a distended colon and kills the resulting babies. Breeding white -> white is dangerous and likely to result in these rats. Not knowing these sorts of things already makes me very suspicious that you know anything beyond "put male with female and watch them make babbies".
Other problems I can see arising are easy to care for with a managable number of rats (for one person staying at home all the time, I would say this is at max 15 or so) includes overgrown nails, bumblefoot (though it's less likely with your flat bottomed cage, though I'd recommend changing the climbing spots to be solid or ladder-like), overgrown incisors, upper respiratory infections (URIs), various types of transmitable diseases, cancers, overheating, parasites, etc etc. One person, even two people, simply cannot afford the vet bills that would arise with the care of rodents, especially if you can't afford propr housing. I doubt any of your sick animals are taken to a vet. Regardless of whether or not they are feeders, they need to have basic care like nail clipping, chews to keep their teeth short, and human interaction (if they are "pets"). Frankly I would never trust someone who says that they feed their pets to their other pets, but I digress.
If you cannot afford proper housing, don't consider genetics when breeding, own a ton of animals that will not recieve vet care if/when they are sick, cannot find the time to interact with and socialize with them, do not feed properly, and cannot decide between whether they are apparently "pets" or "food" - you are running a mill. A rat mill, in this case. The animals you own are clearly not being cared for the best they could be, and if that's the case, then they're not pets, and you should not own them. Rats, or ANY pets, are not a commodity. They are living, breathing, feeling beings and to dismissively treat them with the absolutely bare minimum of care and consideration would be the same as treating a cat or dog the same way.
And don't even get me started on live feeding. It's unecessary, and you DO NOT need to breed your rats for snake food. It is completely possible to train a snake to accept dead animals. This is safer for the snake, for you, and of course more humane for the rats. And unless you own a writhing mass of serpents, you really do not need that many rats to feed them, especially considering the points I've already mentioned. If you snake cannot accept dead food, than buy a feeder rat - a SINGLE feeder rat once every time the snake needs to be fed. There is absolutely no reason to own and breed that many rats for food for a SINGLE snake, or hell, even 5. Rats are expensive to care for properly as pets, and if you can't manage it (which you obviously cannot or will not as I've seen from the picture you posted of your "setup"), just buy the feeders as you need them.
tl;dr: Reduce the number of your rats, stop arguing on the internet and actually go do something for them if you care about them at all.
Secondly, the current housing for your rats is inappropriate. Rats need a highly ventilated cage, and an aquarium tank may suffice for 2 or 3 rats, but not for more than 5, regardless of having a fan on them or not (this is a bad idea with aspen bedding anyway, it stirs up a lot of dust and rats have sensitive lungs). Rats need less "running" space and more vertical space. 2 places to climb are not enough. Ramps, hammocks, tubes, toys, stimulation - this is a requirement, as rats are very social and intelligent animals. Putting them in a cage with little or no stimulation leads to increased fights, stress, infections, aggressiveness, and other psychological and physical issues.
Health-wise, I seriously doubt you are taking health and genetics into consideration when breeding your rodents. Breeding white or mostly-white rats can lead to a condition called megacolon in the offspring. This is basically a distended colon and kills the resulting babies. Breeding white -> white is dangerous and likely to result in these rats. Not knowing these sorts of things already makes me very suspicious that you know anything beyond "put male with female and watch them make babbies".
Other problems I can see arising are easy to care for with a managable number of rats (for one person staying at home all the time, I would say this is at max 15 or so) includes overgrown nails, bumblefoot (though it's less likely with your flat bottomed cage, though I'd recommend changing the climbing spots to be solid or ladder-like), overgrown incisors, upper respiratory infections (URIs), various types of transmitable diseases, cancers, overheating, parasites, etc etc. One person, even two people, simply cannot afford the vet bills that would arise with the care of rodents, especially if you can't afford propr housing. I doubt any of your sick animals are taken to a vet. Regardless of whether or not they are feeders, they need to have basic care like nail clipping, chews to keep their teeth short, and human interaction (if they are "pets"). Frankly I would never trust someone who says that they feed their pets to their other pets, but I digress.
If you cannot afford proper housing, don't consider genetics when breeding, own a ton of animals that will not recieve vet care if/when they are sick, cannot find the time to interact with and socialize with them, do not feed properly, and cannot decide between whether they are apparently "pets" or "food" - you are running a mill. A rat mill, in this case. The animals you own are clearly not being cared for the best they could be, and if that's the case, then they're not pets, and you should not own them. Rats, or ANY pets, are not a commodity. They are living, breathing, feeling beings and to dismissively treat them with the absolutely bare minimum of care and consideration would be the same as treating a cat or dog the same way.
And don't even get me started on live feeding. It's unecessary, and you DO NOT need to breed your rats for snake food. It is completely possible to train a snake to accept dead animals. This is safer for the snake, for you, and of course more humane for the rats. And unless you own a writhing mass of serpents, you really do not need that many rats to feed them, especially considering the points I've already mentioned. If you snake cannot accept dead food, than buy a feeder rat - a SINGLE feeder rat once every time the snake needs to be fed. There is absolutely no reason to own and breed that many rats for food for a SINGLE snake, or hell, even 5. Rats are expensive to care for properly as pets, and if you can't manage it (which you obviously cannot or will not as I've seen from the picture you posted of your "setup"), just buy the feeders as you need them.
tl;dr: Reduce the number of your rats, stop arguing on the internet and actually go do something for them if you care about them at all.
like i said.. i dont care what you say.. i know they are loved and cared for.. thats all i need.. not some person thinking they know it all.. so i dont care what you THINK you know.. you dont know me so get over yourself..
and when did i ever tell you to chock on a dick.. i know i never did so whatever.
anb also.. i dont think im wrong.. i know im not.. so again whatever.
and when did i ever tell you to chock on a dick.. i know i never did so whatever.
anb also.. i dont think im wrong.. i know im not.. so again whatever.
I feel sorry for your animals then. Your ignorance and arrogance is causing them to suffer, whether or not you want to admit it. Also, your partner, aka your whiteknight, said it.
I do know what I am talking about when it comes to rats. Go do any research on rats through rat communities, rat forums, legit breeders, etc. They will all tell you the same thing. Tanks are bad.
Also, if you didn't care what I thought you would have stopped responding by now.
I do know what I am talking about when it comes to rats. Go do any research on rats through rat communities, rat forums, legit breeders, etc. They will all tell you the same thing. Tanks are bad.
Also, if you didn't care what I thought you would have stopped responding by now.
Also, I don't have to know you as a person to know what you are doing is incorrect and bad for the animals involved. Also, an animal can be neglected even if you love it. My parent's love their dogs but they never get them adequate vet care, feed them piss poor food, etc. But they still love them. Love does not automatically make you a fantastic owner or not in the wrong.
wow its a good thing i dont breed white to white eh.. i do know what im doing.. and about 30 of the damn rats are babies who dont even have there eyes open.. we do not have many big ones.. BABIES make up most of what we have.. and they get eaten.. so really dont care what anyone says.. i know how to breed. you dont know anything to do with my rats.. so you cant judge me..
and my snakes will not eat dead.. i have tried many times.. so again not all snakes will eat dead.. you can ask any damn person who has them.. some snakes will some will not. my snakes are NEVER left alone with a live rat. so you cant say anything about that.. i am always rigth there.
and yes if anyneed to go to the vet we DO have money thanks.. we dont need to be rich.. just smart.. i spent about 10$ and got a shit ton of new toys for them today.. so really again i dont care what you THINK you know.
and again i DO know how to care for them.. so get over yourself. they dont cost as much as you seem to think they do.. buy 50lb bags of food and it last a long time. AGAIN most rats are BABIES with eyes closed. we also breed for other people NOT just ours.. and we dont only have one snake..
anyways get over your i know everything bull crap and leave people alone.. i never started this bull shit in the first place as it seems you cant read that.
and anyways.. you all suck and know nothing about our set up and what we do and dont have,... you have never been here and dont know.. so whatever.. i know they are cared for and loved and thats all that matters to me..
and my snakes will not eat dead.. i have tried many times.. so again not all snakes will eat dead.. you can ask any damn person who has them.. some snakes will some will not. my snakes are NEVER left alone with a live rat. so you cant say anything about that.. i am always rigth there.
and yes if anyneed to go to the vet we DO have money thanks.. we dont need to be rich.. just smart.. i spent about 10$ and got a shit ton of new toys for them today.. so really again i dont care what you THINK you know.
and again i DO know how to care for them.. so get over yourself. they dont cost as much as you seem to think they do.. buy 50lb bags of food and it last a long time. AGAIN most rats are BABIES with eyes closed. we also breed for other people NOT just ours.. and we dont only have one snake..
anyways get over your i know everything bull crap and leave people alone.. i never started this bull shit in the first place as it seems you cant read that.
and anyways.. you all suck and know nothing about our set up and what we do and dont have,... you have never been here and dont know.. so whatever.. i know they are cared for and loved and thats all that matters to me..
well its a good thing we buy food that aint cheap and from the vets eh.. good job.. all our pets. not in tanks are fixed up to date with shots and see a vet all the time.. you know nothing of our money income or anything.. so you have no right to say we cant pay for this and that.. as we can.. easy.
and your parents need to be told them.. go bug them.. cuz i sure dont give a crap what you have to say.. they are loved and get what they need..
and your parents need to be told them.. go bug them.. cuz i sure dont give a crap what you have to say.. they are loved and get what they need..
That's what I expected, tbh. |3 Take it or leave it, I'm giving you advice here. Everyone is. If you'd rather insult people, fine, but that doesn't improve your rats' situation.
I suggest taking a step back and doing some research on basic rodent care before you consider breeding again. I can cite all of these references I made in my own post, it's not what I think, it's the truth. I am trying to help your rats have a better life. And if that makes me a bad person, then I guess I'm a bad person.
I know you want to get the last word in, but trust me. No amount of insulting me will change that your rats are in a very bad position and you need to get rid of them so you can focus on caring well for the pets you already have.
"Whatever" should not be your response to your animals' welfare if you truly care for them. If you like, I can link you to rat information to help you understand why everyone is so upset at you, although I doubt you'd want to change it. It's hard work to do the best for your animals. And if it's too hard, sometimes the best option is to not own any.
I suggest taking a step back and doing some research on basic rodent care before you consider breeding again. I can cite all of these references I made in my own post, it's not what I think, it's the truth. I am trying to help your rats have a better life. And if that makes me a bad person, then I guess I'm a bad person.
I know you want to get the last word in, but trust me. No amount of insulting me will change that your rats are in a very bad position and you need to get rid of them so you can focus on caring well for the pets you already have.
"Whatever" should not be your response to your animals' welfare if you truly care for them. If you like, I can link you to rat information to help you understand why everyone is so upset at you, although I doubt you'd want to change it. It's hard work to do the best for your animals. And if it's too hard, sometimes the best option is to not own any.
If you didn't give a crap, once again, you wouldn't be responding.
Rats don't need shots. Also, you provided proof, said it yourself, etc. that your rats are in tanks. It was your third comment on this thread in fact.
I never said you couldn't do any of those things, btw. It was an example that love doesn't automatically make you not a neglectful owner.
Rats don't need shots. Also, you provided proof, said it yourself, etc. that your rats are in tanks. It was your third comment on this thread in fact.
I never said you couldn't do any of those things, btw. It was an example that love doesn't automatically make you not a neglectful owner.
again so what.. they are not in a bad place they are happy healthy and full of love.. you dont know them you know nothing about my rats.. i will not get rid of them.. if i have 083459876 thats up to me not you or anyone else.. i dont need your help.. i know how to do this and if they ar NOT in a tank my cat will bite off tails.. again its safe for them in there if you like it or not.. i dont care
Why do you have 30 babies, again? For food? Pets? To sell?
And if your snakes will not eat dead, why not buy feeders instead?
You obviously do not go to the vet, rats do not need shots and they are obviously not getting fixed if you have babies.
50lbs of a decent block is expensive, so you'd need a supplemented diet regardless. What about vitamins?
And you know, people would leave you alone if you stopped responding. Wanted to point that out.
And no, I do not know you personally, but I would never say I love an animal and then turn around and feed it to another animal. That's not how pets work.
And if your snakes will not eat dead, why not buy feeders instead?
You obviously do not go to the vet, rats do not need shots and they are obviously not getting fixed if you have babies.
50lbs of a decent block is expensive, so you'd need a supplemented diet regardless. What about vitamins?
And you know, people would leave you alone if you stopped responding. Wanted to point that out.
And no, I do not know you personally, but I would never say I love an animal and then turn around and feed it to another animal. That's not how pets work.
Then keep the cat away from them. It's not that hard. If you can't, then you pick one. The cat or the rodents. Just because you cannot keep your cat away from your rodents does not mean they should suffer. You are a neglectful owner so no, I won't get off that, sorry. I know plenty. I'm sorry that being told proper rat care pisses you off. That's a shame.
It's not hard to close a door to a room to keep other animals out. This makes me think you let cats and rats interact in the same room at one point, or still allow them too. That's dangerous to begin with, I suppose this has happened several times in the past and you didn't see an issue there? Why not keep the cat out of the room with rats?
Also, I do know your set up since you posted pictures of it. So, once again, that is a moot point. Aspen bedding is terrible for infant rats. Also, I would love to know how many snakes you have that requires you to have 30+ babies. Also, you keep saying they are feeders only, what happened to those supposed dumbos you breed for pets?
LOL keep the cat away from them.. yeah i tried that. BUT i didnt like being locked in my damn room all the time.. so no i will keep them safe in there tanks so the cat cant hurt them..
go fuck yourself.. your a damn bad owner to your poor sad pets.. i mean really get over yourself get off your white horse and get off the net.. your pets want you to pet them.. whatever.. omg.. you are all lame people who have no life it seems but to pick on someone who loves her rats..
but anyway say what you want.. i dont care anymore.. you are all just harrassing me now and im done with your childish shit.
go fuck yourself.. your a damn bad owner to your poor sad pets.. i mean really get over yourself get off your white horse and get off the net.. your pets want you to pet them.. whatever.. omg.. you are all lame people who have no life it seems but to pick on someone who loves her rats..
but anyway say what you want.. i dont care anymore.. you are all just harrassing me now and im done with your childish shit.
Bahahahaha. I'm a bad pet owner? How? Why? Because I feed them properly, give them proper food, provide them pet care? Sorry. Nice try. Once again, insults get you no where. It makes you look bad, but I've said this multiple times. It makes YOU look childish, not me. Also, as I said, if you want to keep them safe, get rid of the cat then. If you want to keep the cat, get rid of the rats. The rats should not suffer in poor conditions because you want to keep the cat. Being a responsible pet owner sometimes hurts and you need to make sacrifices. That's what happens if you want your pets to be as healthy and happy as possible.
No. I want you to own up and see what you're doing is wrong and is not in the best interest of the rodents you have in your possession. However, that seems like too big of a task for you to handle.
I feel bad for your rats, but as I just said, proper and responsible rat care seems to be out of your grasp.
I feel bad for your rats, but as I just said, proper and responsible rat care seems to be out of your grasp.
im not wrong.. end of story i used to be close minded like you.. and would NEVER out a rat in a tank.. then we build fans and shit.. now i would never use a wire cage again. but air flow ever in them tanks. no wet piss smell happy healthy rats.. they live a great life..
stop trying to get me to say im wrong.. cuz im not.. but thanks anyways.
and thinking outside the box or cage as it seems is to hard for YOU to grasp
stop trying to get me to say im wrong.. cuz im not.. but thanks anyways.
and thinking outside the box or cage as it seems is to hard for YOU to grasp
cages are bad? teehee, guess we should use tanks instead. </smartass>
you know that
a) heat rises
b) airflow indead helps any buildup of heat
c) the fans are INTENDED to exhaust moisture which deteres the growth of bacteria and it also exhausts dust, anything to heavy to be lifted into the air stays in the tank.
dont talk about education if you dont know basic physics.
you know that
a) heat rises
b) airflow indead helps any buildup of heat
c) the fans are INTENDED to exhaust moisture which deteres the growth of bacteria and it also exhausts dust, anything to heavy to be lifted into the air stays in the tank.
dont talk about education if you dont know basic physics.
All of petsmart and petco's snakes are fed frozen rodents. Feeding live is unethical, stressful for both creatures, and just a plain ignorant mindset. Snakes can be trained to eat frozen it just takes time and effort. Clearly you don't have enough for all your animals.
Rats can easily damage even large snakes. It is not natural to be cornered in a small box when being preyed upon.
No rats should be kept on any kind of wood chip bedding. They should be on carefresh or an equivalent. Just because they are being fed to something doesn't mean you can justify housing them badly.
There is not enough ventilation in tanks for rats even with your jerry rigged fans. If there is no way for air to pass through the whole setup it is not properly ventilated.
Rats can easily damage even large snakes. It is not natural to be cornered in a small box when being preyed upon.
No rats should be kept on any kind of wood chip bedding. They should be on carefresh or an equivalent. Just because they are being fed to something doesn't mean you can justify housing them badly.
There is not enough ventilation in tanks for rats even with your jerry rigged fans. If there is no way for air to pass through the whole setup it is not properly ventilated.
Yeah, and Wolves don't have anybody to kill for them and yet we give them(dogs) prepared meals. Same with practically every carnivorous or omnivorous pet. As Richard Dawkins once said, "Nature is neither kind nor cruel but indifferent."
It takes all of two seconds to break a rat pup's neck and kill it instantly to be fed to your snakes. I do this every week for five of my animals. I love and respect nature and, having been bitten by many snakes in my lifetime, couldn't imagine the pain of dying from a snake's bite and constriction. If they're fresh killed the snakes probably wouldn't know the difference. And if you can transition them to frozen you can kill and store extra rat pups you don't have room for.
It takes all of two seconds to break a rat pup's neck and kill it instantly to be fed to your snakes. I do this every week for five of my animals. I love and respect nature and, having been bitten by many snakes in my lifetime, couldn't imagine the pain of dying from a snake's bite and constriction. If they're fresh killed the snakes probably wouldn't know the difference. And if you can transition them to frozen you can kill and store extra rat pups you don't have room for.
If you haven't tried to switch to prekilled for the sake of the lives of your feeders and your snakes, then you obviously do not care for your animals.
Sorry, but it does not matter how closely you watch them or how well you think everything is going- mistakes happen and it's a heavy feeling on one's mind to watch a snake suffer from mouth rot, a nasty infection, etc. when you know you could have done better.
Same goes for listening to a rat pup squeak in pain and fear as it is poorly constricted or eaten alive by your snakes. And don't say it doesn't happen.
I hope you come to find that what you are doing is unacceptable and that there is a reason why so many people are butting heads with you over your husbandry. I can't tell you how to care for your animals, but I sure as hell hope you can take what everybody here is saying to heart.
Sorry, but it does not matter how closely you watch them or how well you think everything is going- mistakes happen and it's a heavy feeling on one's mind to watch a snake suffer from mouth rot, a nasty infection, etc. when you know you could have done better.
Same goes for listening to a rat pup squeak in pain and fear as it is poorly constricted or eaten alive by your snakes. And don't say it doesn't happen.
I hope you come to find that what you are doing is unacceptable and that there is a reason why so many people are butting heads with you over your husbandry. I can't tell you how to care for your animals, but I sure as hell hope you can take what everybody here is saying to heart.
well you can think what you want.. i know what i have tried and i know what my snakes will and will not eat.. like i know what my rats will and will not eat.. get off your high horse and deal with your own animals as i would like to deal with mine.. as i care not about you or yours.
http://www.rodentracks.com/images/M.....ck_breeder.jpg
this is what NORMAL breeders do... enough said.
Would a breeder aproove? Not only that they would say we are over pampering them... *sigh*
Poor poor ratties with thier wonderful lives.
this is what NORMAL breeders do... enough said.
Would a breeder aproove? Not only that they would say we are over pampering them... *sigh*
Poor poor ratties with thier wonderful lives.
they are all stupid people.. think they know anything.. stress.. NONE of them have stress.. and the snakes will not eat dead so again they know nothing about anything.. people are just lame.. its so funny that they think they know anything.. they all have big heads and think they are gods gift to rats lmfao
You think that's a huge cage? :c Wow, mine must be ENORMOUS for the six that I have. It's as tall as yours is LONG, is wider (square) and has multiple levels (necessary!) and is marketed for ferrets. :u
You do realize that EACH RAT needs 2 cubic feet of space, right?
...right?
You do realize that EACH RAT needs 2 cubic feet of space, right?
...right?
anyways im tired of fighting with you, all you are trying to do is make yourself look good infront of an audience.
its too bad we cant ask the rats if they think their life is good, cause i know the answer. You should see the way they play.
and FYI, i said each rat has 3 cubic. read.
its too bad we cant ask the rats if they think their life is good, cause i know the answer. You should see the way they play.
and FYI, i said each rat has 3 cubic. read.
First off, the 55 rats arent all adults
That cuts out on alot of the "space" you mention due to the fact that the baby rats all need to be with their mothers
do the babies and mothers want to be played with and fondled? lmfao fuck nah.
to put things in persective each ADULT rat has aproximately 3-4 cubic feet of their own space.
thats about the same size that most people cram their 2-3 rats into a cage.
You can think what you want but the rats we are keeping have great lives.
Even before they are lined up to be fed to a snake. omnom nom
Untill that snake strikes, they live great.
Also, every person who comes to our house and sees our set up says "Wow this makes my cage look pathetic and puny! Your rats are REALLY WELL TAKEN CARE OF"
That cuts out on alot of the "space" you mention due to the fact that the baby rats all need to be with their mothers
do the babies and mothers want to be played with and fondled? lmfao fuck nah.
to put things in persective each ADULT rat has aproximately 3-4 cubic feet of their own space.
thats about the same size that most people cram their 2-3 rats into a cage.
You can think what you want but the rats we are keeping have great lives.
Even before they are lined up to be fed to a snake. omnom nom
Untill that snake strikes, they live great.
Also, every person who comes to our house and sees our set up says "Wow this makes my cage look pathetic and puny! Your rats are REALLY WELL TAKEN CARE OF"
Oh, so you live feed too? Add to the idiocy, please. Please continue to stress out these rats you care for SO MUCH. Same with those snakes. Wonderful idea. Also, how mature with that omnomnom comment. It's cute.
Also, the average person doesn't know the requirements for a rat so the random people coming into your house don't know.
Also, the average person doesn't know the requirements for a rat so the random people coming into your house don't know.
dude we have intake and out take fans on all tanks.. people come into our house and dont even know we have rats cuz NOTHING smells at all. the tanks are dry and dont stink at all.. they are cleaned all the time and well cared for.. im just saying.. you dont know.. so dont sit here thinking you do.
yeah im going to watch the cat 100% of the day, 24/7 365, oops they died on feb 29.
He is an instinctual hunter.
What makes you think we DONT keep up on the litter? its changed weekly, all the bedding is removed and the insides are washed out with windex. There is NO humidity, NO ammonia buildup, that is what the exhaust fan is for, its alot more useful than you might think...
NO it does not kick up dust.. thats an assumption. rather it helps exhaust it out of the tank.
The ammonia that comes from their waste is FASTER evaporated due to the acitve airflow.
There is no stench, no humidity, no sickness. It is essentialy the BEST rodent system ive witnessed and despite the constant nagging closed minded comments about tanks, i would gladly do it and reccomend it.
He is an instinctual hunter.
What makes you think we DONT keep up on the litter? its changed weekly, all the bedding is removed and the insides are washed out with windex. There is NO humidity, NO ammonia buildup, that is what the exhaust fan is for, its alot more useful than you might think...
NO it does not kick up dust.. thats an assumption. rather it helps exhaust it out of the tank.
The ammonia that comes from their waste is FASTER evaporated due to the acitve airflow.
There is no stench, no humidity, no sickness. It is essentialy the BEST rodent system ive witnessed and despite the constant nagging closed minded comments about tanks, i would gladly do it and reccomend it.
Windex is a chemical agent that should never be used around pets, especially rats. The fumes can be toxic. I suggest something organic. Vinegar is something that is commonly used to clean fish tanks, and from a quick google is safe to use around rats as well.
Unless you have a proper intake and an outflow then there's no way your set up can be 100% ammonia build-up proof. Of course, this is from the since deleted picture that I saw of your set up.
Unless you have a proper intake and an outflow then there's no way your set up can be 100% ammonia build-up proof. Of course, this is from the since deleted picture that I saw of your set up.
vinegar is a good one.. never even thought of that one.. i will have to do that!! thanks for THAT tip..
also we tried with the cat.. didnt work.. he finds ways in and to be safe we cant do a cage.. the tanks do have lots of airflow and never smell.. and they are cleaned out often so they are good.
also we tried with the cat.. didnt work.. he finds ways in and to be safe we cant do a cage.. the tanks do have lots of airflow and never smell.. and they are cleaned out often so they are good.
you're just fucking lazy. you don't WANT to put forth the effort to keep your animals separate. and you're just stuffing your fucking fingers in your ears and screeching at the top of your lungs so you don't have to hear what anyone else says to you.
i feel REALLY sorry for your rats. those poor things are probably sick with myco most of their lives and then you plop them into a tank with a snake so you can get off to watching a living creature die.
hope those snakes decide to snack on you and your precious whiteknight over there. it'd be the least you deserve.
i feel REALLY sorry for your rats. those poor things are probably sick with myco most of their lives and then you plop them into a tank with a snake so you can get off to watching a living creature die.
hope those snakes decide to snack on you and your precious whiteknight over there. it'd be the least you deserve.
rats are not sick at all. and snakes are super friendly and dont bite,, sorry about your luck. no one will be trying to eat us... i feel sorry for you also.. you are very close minded person like the rest of them and dont know when to just shut up.. you can all call us what ever you want.. we know whats true and and whats not.. and all your bullshit.. its not true.
Yes thanks for the vinegar.
Do note that i forgot to clearly state that the windex is completely evaporated by the time the rats are put back in. (i know the FUMES are toxic, however when evaporated it is harmles cause its gone) the rats are no where near the cleaning process.
The cat issue is an out of the question subject unfourtunately.
and yes.. as ive stated many times, there is more than sufficient intake and output of airflow. This is why there is VERY LITTLE ammonia.
disregard my use of the words "No ammonia" cause yes, you are right, 100% ammonia free is imposible, even in the most expensive CAGE available.
also note, thank you for not being as critical as these other people. Its very clear you are more... careful with your words. Just try not to take mine AS litteraly.
The rats are in no harm/neglect -.-
Do note that i forgot to clearly state that the windex is completely evaporated by the time the rats are put back in. (i know the FUMES are toxic, however when evaporated it is harmles cause its gone) the rats are no where near the cleaning process.
The cat issue is an out of the question subject unfourtunately.
and yes.. as ive stated many times, there is more than sufficient intake and output of airflow. This is why there is VERY LITTLE ammonia.
disregard my use of the words "No ammonia" cause yes, you are right, 100% ammonia free is imposible, even in the most expensive CAGE available.
also note, thank you for not being as critical as these other people. Its very clear you are more... careful with your words. Just try not to take mine AS litteraly.
The rats are in no harm/neglect -.-
And to be less snarky, one of the reasons why tanks is a bad idea? It allows humidity and heat to accumulate, which in turn allows for bacterial growth to go insane. You're either asking for your animals to get sick at once, get you sick, or get your snakes sick. All are a possibility. I'm not a rat owner, but it follows the same principal from other animals that I've kept. (My degree is in poultry science, and waste management was a thing for us along with bacteriology.) If you do not change out the litter/ stay on top of the whole thing, you're basically sitting on a ticking time bomb.
If you guys are seriously worried about the cat, then you need to keep the cat separate from the rats. Cats are capable of coexisting with rats peacefully, it's just a matter of not leaving your animals unsupervised.
If you guys are seriously worried about the cat, then you need to keep the cat separate from the rats. Cats are capable of coexisting with rats peacefully, it's just a matter of not leaving your animals unsupervised.
What have I said that causes you to think I can't read "shit"? If that was the case, it wouldn't have matter what the heck you said anywhere on this page,because I wouldn't have understood it!
I observed the following: You saying you have more rats than what most people would find normal and then say that the non-dumbo ones are bred for food. You go on to say that it doesn't matter what you do with them basically as they are for food and etc. etc. other things that I did not enjoy reading. I will not continue this argument but I would love to know what it is you are talking about.
I observed the following: You saying you have more rats than what most people would find normal and then say that the non-dumbo ones are bred for food. You go on to say that it doesn't matter what you do with them basically as they are for food and etc. etc. other things that I did not enjoy reading. I will not continue this argument but I would love to know what it is you are talking about.
I hate adding more fuel to the fire but lets set this straight.
The argument was clearly sparked after
vombatiformes started making snide comments in reply to our rats.
It was furthered by the blatent closed mindedness expressed by him and
Skittle
You cant blame someone for starting an argument when they are simply defending themselves.
You dont have to agree with feeder breeding, thats up to you and neigther
shines nor i will stop you from beliving that, but however when ANYONE steps in and acuses us of neglect, mistreatment, or abuse of our animals, thats where i draw the line.
These people seem to think they know all there is to know about anything, frankly nothing would have satisfied their hunger to look good
The argument was clearly sparked after
vombatiformes started making snide comments in reply to our rats.It was furthered by the blatent closed mindedness expressed by him and
Skittle You cant blame someone for starting an argument when they are simply defending themselves.
You dont have to agree with feeder breeding, thats up to you and neigther
shines nor i will stop you from beliving that, but however when ANYONE steps in and acuses us of neglect, mistreatment, or abuse of our animals, thats where i draw the line.These people seem to think they know all there is to know about anything, frankly nothing would have satisfied their hunger to look good
Show me the set up and I'll give my opinion on the "condition" if that's so important to you, from what i've read so far it does not sound pretty. When I had a rat, one rat I kept her a rabbit cage. (which means she had a good deal space) You keep 55 in fish tanks with some ventilation...that would sound good to me why?
Well the picture was posted, which you would have known if you read the whole fan-dangle before putting in your 2 cents.
You can go ahead and find it if you care, cause im getting really tired of this BS.
just keep in mind NOT ALL RATS ARE IN THE SAME SPOT + over 30 are NEWBORNS.
these are the key facts people here seem to be overeading/neglecting.
Im not going to go into the extensive detail about the vent fans, because everyone seems to think that its just a shot job without knowing the damned planning i put into the shit..
The air flow going through the tanks is equal to or better than any damned 300+$ ferret nation cage that seems to be the acceptance stone of "respectable" rat owners.
You can go ahead and find it if you care, cause im getting really tired of this BS.
just keep in mind NOT ALL RATS ARE IN THE SAME SPOT + over 30 are NEWBORNS.
these are the key facts people here seem to be overeading/neglecting.
Im not going to go into the extensive detail about the vent fans, because everyone seems to think that its just a shot job without knowing the damned planning i put into the shit..
The air flow going through the tanks is equal to or better than any damned 300+$ ferret nation cage that seems to be the acceptance stone of "respectable" rat owners.
correction appearently the picture was deleted due to harrassment.
Anyways, we dont need your opinion on it, we made a judgement call, our rats are FINE.
Tired of internet users who think they are the top shit.
Just take our damned word for it, these rats are NOT in distress, if we were neglecting them do you REALLY think we would be on the defensive for this long?
jesus fucking christ...
Anyways, we dont need your opinion on it, we made a judgement call, our rats are FINE.
Tired of internet users who think they are the top shit.
Just take our damned word for it, these rats are NOT in distress, if we were neglecting them do you REALLY think we would be on the defensive for this long?
jesus fucking christ...
how do you know they have no stimulation.. you have not seen what they have in the tanks.. they get new stuff all the time.. stop thinking you know what OUR rats do and dont have.. like i said.. spent over $100 on stuff for them today.. they have MANY new toys we just got.. so again.. your wrong.
It's really strange that you just keep saying that we "think we know it all". Is that really your best defense? Honestly?
I'm not claiming to know it all. I AM claiming to know a thing or two about rat care. Things that are really common knowledge to people that keep rats. I'd be happy to provide you with links to reputable sources about housing, diet, etc. but I'm pretty sure you'll just dismiss them/me as just "trying to look good". Or something. I don't even know. I can't even make sense of your defense at this point. You just keep repeating the same damn shit without any validation for your methods.
I'm not claiming to know it all. I AM claiming to know a thing or two about rat care. Things that are really common knowledge to people that keep rats. I'd be happy to provide you with links to reputable sources about housing, diet, etc. but I'm pretty sure you'll just dismiss them/me as just "trying to look good". Or something. I don't even know. I can't even make sense of your defense at this point. You just keep repeating the same damn shit without any validation for your methods.
Insulting someone while trying to defend your point really invalidates everything you're saying. Just FYI.
And just repeating over and over that you "know how to care for them" doesn't do ANYTHING to convince anybody that you actually do.
Tell me WHY you think those tanks are appropriate. Merely being "safe from your cat" (which is a horrible defense to begin with, you should DEFINITELY be able to keep those rats in a safe place if you're going to keep them) isn't a good reason. They should not have to live in substandard conditions because you are not able to manage your menagerie of animals.
I get wanting a lot of pets. We have a lot of pets, too. We have a cat, six rats, a hamster, a tarantula, frogs (poison dart frogs and a pacman frog) and a leopard gecko. With the exception of the pacman frog (who was like gift-dumped on us, ugh) we made sure we had the space and finances and KNOWLEDGE to care for them adequately. For example, we REALIZED it was potentially dangerous to have a cat with animals that REQUIRED an open cage. We were prepared to keep the rats in an isolated room (that we knew we HAD) if the cat was not able to coexist with them.
FORTUNATELY our cat doesn't even notice the rats are there, we've had them for over two years and haven't had a problem, but if there had been a problem we would NOT have had to resort to putting them in an aquarium.
Here is the important part: IF WE HAD NO OTHER CHOICE to prevent harm coming to them from the cat than to put them in aquariums, then we would not have kept the rats. End of story.
I am concerned with their welfare, not with my pleasure.
And just repeating over and over that you "know how to care for them" doesn't do ANYTHING to convince anybody that you actually do.
Tell me WHY you think those tanks are appropriate. Merely being "safe from your cat" (which is a horrible defense to begin with, you should DEFINITELY be able to keep those rats in a safe place if you're going to keep them) isn't a good reason. They should not have to live in substandard conditions because you are not able to manage your menagerie of animals.
I get wanting a lot of pets. We have a lot of pets, too. We have a cat, six rats, a hamster, a tarantula, frogs (poison dart frogs and a pacman frog) and a leopard gecko. With the exception of the pacman frog (who was like gift-dumped on us, ugh) we made sure we had the space and finances and KNOWLEDGE to care for them adequately. For example, we REALIZED it was potentially dangerous to have a cat with animals that REQUIRED an open cage. We were prepared to keep the rats in an isolated room (that we knew we HAD) if the cat was not able to coexist with them.
FORTUNATELY our cat doesn't even notice the rats are there, we've had them for over two years and haven't had a problem, but if there had been a problem we would NOT have had to resort to putting them in an aquarium.
Here is the important part: IF WE HAD NO OTHER CHOICE to prevent harm coming to them from the cat than to put them in aquariums, then we would not have kept the rats. End of story.
I am concerned with their welfare, not with my pleasure.
i didnt insult you i said nothing.. anyways the reasons i like the tanks.
cat cant kill rats
keeps smell to like a zero with the fans
tank can have many fun things added
no bedding all over my damn floors
easy as hell to clean
can rig fun fans on them
many other reasons im sure
small rats cant get out of bars and get hurt. (i have had it happen before and its not fun)
the rats are cared for.. the tanks are clean.. they DO have toys and many things to chew on. they have water bottles to help keep the tanks dry. our rats like to run more then climb so not a big deal to not having bars all over the place. they do have spots to climb. they also are held often.
if your concerned for their welfare thats great.. but as i have been saying for days now.. they really are fine. i do know how to care for them..
cat cant kill rats
keeps smell to like a zero with the fans
tank can have many fun things added
no bedding all over my damn floors
easy as hell to clean
can rig fun fans on them
many other reasons im sure
small rats cant get out of bars and get hurt. (i have had it happen before and its not fun)
the rats are cared for.. the tanks are clean.. they DO have toys and many things to chew on. they have water bottles to help keep the tanks dry. our rats like to run more then climb so not a big deal to not having bars all over the place. they do have spots to climb. they also are held often.
if your concerned for their welfare thats great.. but as i have been saying for days now.. they really are fine. i do know how to care for them..
1. If you kept the cat and rats isolated it wouldn't be an issue.
2. We have like NO issue with smell so long as they are spot-cleaned and cleaned regularly, which really doesn't take much time.
3. Um. We can hang shit EVERYWHERE from the bars of our cage for them. Hammocks, toys, ropes, swings, etc. It's much easier to accessorize a cage that has bars.
4. Our cage is super easy to clean. The shelves snap off the bars and can be scrubbed, it's easy to pop the top off to clean the bottom.
5. A cage with a deep bottom helps, and honestly if you're not prepared to have a little bedding on your floor that you have to drag out that terrible big old vacuum for you probably shouldn't have rats.
6. We don't need fans! :D
7. Don't use a cage with large bar spacing, or have a separate cage for young rats (which you should have anyway... honestly several spare cages are a good idea in case someone gets sick, for introducing new rats that need to be quarantined, etc.)
Our rats have water bottles too? And your rats are not special mutant rats that like to run more than climb... maybe they don't like to climb because they have NOTHING TO CLIMB ON?
I am really really not convinced (and obviously I'm not alone, I wonder why so many people suddenly randomly hate you so much that they wish to make shit up and point out make-believe flaws with your care, jeez!) that you do know how to care for them.
2. We have like NO issue with smell so long as they are spot-cleaned and cleaned regularly, which really doesn't take much time.
3. Um. We can hang shit EVERYWHERE from the bars of our cage for them. Hammocks, toys, ropes, swings, etc. It's much easier to accessorize a cage that has bars.
4. Our cage is super easy to clean. The shelves snap off the bars and can be scrubbed, it's easy to pop the top off to clean the bottom.
5. A cage with a deep bottom helps, and honestly if you're not prepared to have a little bedding on your floor that you have to drag out that terrible big old vacuum for you probably shouldn't have rats.
6. We don't need fans! :D
7. Don't use a cage with large bar spacing, or have a separate cage for young rats (which you should have anyway... honestly several spare cages are a good idea in case someone gets sick, for introducing new rats that need to be quarantined, etc.)
Our rats have water bottles too? And your rats are not special mutant rats that like to run more than climb... maybe they don't like to climb because they have NOTHING TO CLIMB ON?
I am really really not convinced (and obviously I'm not alone, I wonder why so many people suddenly randomly hate you so much that they wish to make shit up and point out make-believe flaws with your care, jeez!) that you do know how to care for them.
you have YOUR reasons why you ike something.. and i have mine.. why should one be better then the other if they are well cared for and fed well. i like the fans.. they are great.
and no way in hell am i going to isolate my animals.. thats lame shit.. they have the run of the house.. like they should be
and no way in hell am i going to isolate my animals.. thats lame shit.. they have the run of the house.. like they should be
I dunno, we got our cage on sale for $60. And isn't that cheaper than rigging up some apparently elaborate fan system with parts that will need to be replaced?
ALSO I'm going to ask you because you seem like the more coherent of the two, but here is this submission where Shines states in the submission description that it is her first pet snake. And then in the comments she goes on to say it is "our" first snake, I assume referring to the two of you. This submission was 2 months ago. And yet in this whole argument you guys are like 'we're snake breeders, we breed rats to feed'.
I guess I'm just not seeing a congruence with your arguing here and what APPEARS to be the case. It LOOKS like you guys just got a snake two months ago. which would then imply that you're fairly new at this whole thing and can't possibly be as super-know-it-all as you're putting on????
ALSO there are submissions in Shines scraps to the effect of "here's our sick rabbit that I can't afford to take to the vet, donate money for help!" when here in these comments you guys are presenting yourselves as taking manymany rats to the vet all the time with no money woes?????
I just. . . you guys aren't being coherent in your arguments (except for Shines's constant repeating, that's perfectly clear), so it's hard to take them seriously.
ALSO I'm going to ask you because you seem like the more coherent of the two, but here is this submission where Shines states in the submission description that it is her first pet snake. And then in the comments she goes on to say it is "our" first snake, I assume referring to the two of you. This submission was 2 months ago. And yet in this whole argument you guys are like 'we're snake breeders, we breed rats to feed'.
I guess I'm just not seeing a congruence with your arguing here and what APPEARS to be the case. It LOOKS like you guys just got a snake two months ago. which would then imply that you're fairly new at this whole thing and can't possibly be as super-know-it-all as you're putting on????
ALSO there are submissions in Shines scraps to the effect of "here's our sick rabbit that I can't afford to take to the vet, donate money for help!" when here in these comments you guys are presenting yourselves as taking manymany rats to the vet all the time with no money woes?????
I just. . . you guys aren't being coherent in your arguments (except for Shines's constant repeating, that's perfectly clear), so it's hard to take them seriously.
Sorry I could have sworn I read that you had been breeding snakes and that's why you were breeding rats to feed them, guess I inserted logic that wasn't there. How many snakes do you guys have then? Because it still appears as though you just got your first snake ever 2 months ago. . . .
why not? you told us how many rats you have. if you said you had 100 snakes then it would help your point, wouldn't it? Honestly I don't see why something like that would be a secret when it's both on topic and in the interests of your defense (which you apparently care a lot about considering how long you've been replying to people here).
cuz it dont matter.. i also breed for friends.. NOT just us.. but no one cares about that do they? they just seem to think tanks are so bad.. i like them.. im going to use them no matter how much you guys hate it.. sorry but its my choice on what i like and use.. they are cared for and loved.. they have what they need.. and thats what matters. i dont hurt them. i dont put 60 in the same tank. but yeah
Well then I think you only have one snake and are in a poor financial situation to take care of the horde of animals that you apparantly have. And I think that because of the proof provided on your page. You could very easily disprove me by stating a number that I would believe on good will, or posting pictures of your snakes.
Honestly I think it's very relevant to this argument, and I'm surprised other's haven't picked up on it. And if you actively avoid providing proof that would shut the argument down (in YOUR FAVOR) then it makes you look real suspicious.
Honestly I think it's very relevant to this argument, and I'm surprised other's haven't picked up on it. And if you actively avoid providing proof that would shut the argument down (in YOUR FAVOR) then it makes you look real suspicious.
Did I block you? I don't know how, because it certainly wasn't intentional. I really want to hear what you have to say (well honestly I'd rather hear from your boyfriend because at this point you appear to be too upset to write.
Anyhow, hold on and I'll see if I can un-block you. Sorry again that's really strange. I don't block people ever, even if I don't like them.
(and PS I still don't know why you would refuse to present valuable information that's relevant to your argument)
Anyhow, hold on and I'll see if I can un-block you. Sorry again that's really strange. I don't block people ever, even if I don't like them.
(and PS I still don't know why you would refuse to present valuable information that's relevant to your argument)
stop picking through our submissions trying to poke at us and call us bad people :) its totaly uncool.
FYI NO we will probably NEVER take a rat to the vet. Why? Im not going to spend 50$+ to have a vet tell me it has cancer and is going to die anyways.
Rats live 2-3 years (3 is pushin it)
the reason i call you all closed minded is because you have this tiny little window of what you belive is right and this gigantic list of things you think is wrong.
We arent being coherent? Stop trying to see us as one person, yes we are together but that doesnt mean we dont have seperate personalities.
She can sometimes have a habit of digging her own grave with petty insults, but thats just her way of defending herself from critics like you who go waaaay out of their way (as prooved by your submission snooping) just to make someone feel/look bad.
besides, be honest, nothing we can say will make you say/think we are actualy doing a good job (better than most, wake up already)
If i didnt enjoy taking care of these creatures i would have convinced shines that we should get rid of them FOR THEIR OWN GOOD AND OURS, JUST like what happened with the rabbits.
Rats are much easier to take care of, they are much cleaner (especialy when using tanks i may add) cheaper and over all less stress.
just cause your little handbooks say tanks are bad, doesnt mean they are taking into account all possible preventitives for WHY.
Now hopefuly some of this actualy gets through to you and you can reply to me like a DECENT person, without resorting to repeating the words "neglect, harmful, careless etc.)
FYI NO we will probably NEVER take a rat to the vet. Why? Im not going to spend 50$+ to have a vet tell me it has cancer and is going to die anyways.
Rats live 2-3 years (3 is pushin it)
the reason i call you all closed minded is because you have this tiny little window of what you belive is right and this gigantic list of things you think is wrong.
We arent being coherent? Stop trying to see us as one person, yes we are together but that doesnt mean we dont have seperate personalities.
She can sometimes have a habit of digging her own grave with petty insults, but thats just her way of defending herself from critics like you who go waaaay out of their way (as prooved by your submission snooping) just to make someone feel/look bad.
besides, be honest, nothing we can say will make you say/think we are actualy doing a good job (better than most, wake up already)
If i didnt enjoy taking care of these creatures i would have convinced shines that we should get rid of them FOR THEIR OWN GOOD AND OURS, JUST like what happened with the rabbits.
Rats are much easier to take care of, they are much cleaner (especialy when using tanks i may add) cheaper and over all less stress.
just cause your little handbooks say tanks are bad, doesnt mean they are taking into account all possible preventitives for WHY.
Now hopefuly some of this actualy gets through to you and you can reply to me like a DECENT person, without resorting to repeating the words "neglect, harmful, careless etc.)
Thanks for the reply. I know it sounds creepy to have brought up her scraps, but I found those when I was looking for the cage submission that's not there anymore, I wasn't actually actively snooping for dirt haha (though I know it must look that way). But it did seem alarming to see a post about getting the first snake 2 months prior to this argument about having 50+ rats?
And I'm sorry if I'm not coherent in my comments. I didn't mean to imply that you two should be the same person, just that her replies are sort of hard to read (which is why I replied to you) :/
And honestly? If you guys were like "no actually we're breeding them for our 1,000 snakes and we're just sort of trying to be humane" then personally I'd lay off. It's just that you keep insisting that they're a funny combo of pet/feeders. You're insisting that you take great care of them (at PET standards). And THAT is what people are upset about. Because I know at least vombatiformes and Skittle are both reallyreally into rats, and they don't get their info from handbooks, but from ratforums frequented by rat fanciers and shit.
It's like peer-reviewed science. Which is much more reliable than a handbook (as you're implying) but ALSO more reliable than a couple who are claiming to do a whole bunch of stuff but when pressed are actually unwilling to take criticism.
Which is why I'm asking about the snakes. Because to ME it seems like your argument is basically that "the reason our ratcare isn't up to these crazyratperson standards is that they're feeder animals primarily and pets secondarily" but then it appears as though you don't actually have the snakes to make that a logical argument?? And I'm not really claiming to know how many snakes you have, but there really is that submission from two months ago that says that you just got a single snake for the first time ever, and it's even a small snake that would probably be more comfortable eating mice
And I'm sorry if I'm not coherent in my comments. I didn't mean to imply that you two should be the same person, just that her replies are sort of hard to read (which is why I replied to you) :/
And honestly? If you guys were like "no actually we're breeding them for our 1,000 snakes and we're just sort of trying to be humane" then personally I'd lay off. It's just that you keep insisting that they're a funny combo of pet/feeders. You're insisting that you take great care of them (at PET standards). And THAT is what people are upset about. Because I know at least vombatiformes and Skittle are both reallyreally into rats, and they don't get their info from handbooks, but from ratforums frequented by rat fanciers and shit.
It's like peer-reviewed science. Which is much more reliable than a handbook (as you're implying) but ALSO more reliable than a couple who are claiming to do a whole bunch of stuff but when pressed are actually unwilling to take criticism.
Which is why I'm asking about the snakes. Because to ME it seems like your argument is basically that "the reason our ratcare isn't up to these crazyratperson standards is that they're feeder animals primarily and pets secondarily" but then it appears as though you don't actually have the snakes to make that a logical argument?? And I'm not really claiming to know how many snakes you have, but there really is that submission from two months ago that says that you just got a single snake for the first time ever, and it's even a small snake that would probably be more comfortable eating mice
we have 3 snakes, 2 are big enough to eat 4-5 week old pups, the little one easts newborns. we intend to sell on the side to other snake owners.
YES they are breeders primarily, thats the whole purpouse of our setup, but that doesnt mean that they are neglected nor stressed, and it also doesnt mean we cant consider the active breeders NOT to be fed as enjoyable pets.
There are dumbos in the mix, since people tend to like them better (dont know why the ears cause so much atraction) they are also sold to people as pets, and ONCE AGAIN, well taken care of.
What we breed for is not really a concern as the care is all the same.
It seems more like your side is less about the structure of how we take care of our rats and more about the inconsistencies and small errors in typing/communication.
true or false?
YES they are breeders primarily, thats the whole purpouse of our setup, but that doesnt mean that they are neglected nor stressed, and it also doesnt mean we cant consider the active breeders NOT to be fed as enjoyable pets.
There are dumbos in the mix, since people tend to like them better (dont know why the ears cause so much atraction) they are also sold to people as pets, and ONCE AGAIN, well taken care of.
What we breed for is not really a concern as the care is all the same.
It seems more like your side is less about the structure of how we take care of our rats and more about the inconsistencies and small errors in typing/communication.
true or false?
I'm personally only interested in trying to figure out what's truly going on. inconsistencies are a good indication of falsities, so I care about them. Small errors in typing/communication are irrelevant to the argument, but relevant to my ability to understand the argument that you are presenting and hense relevant to me.
It seems that you guys are upset because the collective 'we' of concerned citizens are apparantly misunderstanding your situation and blowing it into an ugly picture. So my goals of this communicative exchange are to get you to present a clear, factual (based in quantitative statements like the number of rats, number of snakes, space per animal, etc. Rather than subjective things like 'good') defense that can be responded to logically, without misunderstanding.
I just don't see the point of arguing with insults or in a way that we're misunderstanding each other.
It seems that you guys are upset because the collective 'we' of concerned citizens are apparantly misunderstanding your situation and blowing it into an ugly picture. So my goals of this communicative exchange are to get you to present a clear, factual (based in quantitative statements like the number of rats, number of snakes, space per animal, etc. Rather than subjective things like 'good') defense that can be responded to logically, without misunderstanding.
I just don't see the point of arguing with insults or in a way that we're misunderstanding each other.
At least now someone is making some sense *sigh*
However i do also belive that all this nit picking is really none of your buisness.
This whole thing started because someone didnt like that we hadso many rats (shines mistakenly said 50, hence the population believing that there were 50 full grown rats in our home) and secondly that the same someone made a snide remark about them being in tanks which obviously pointed out that they assumed that we were unfit owners without thinking; "maybe they have a way to make it work without putting the rats in danger"
Am i being clear so far?
However i do also belive that all this nit picking is really none of your buisness.
This whole thing started because someone didnt like that we hadso many rats (shines mistakenly said 50, hence the population believing that there were 50 full grown rats in our home) and secondly that the same someone made a snide remark about them being in tanks which obviously pointed out that they assumed that we were unfit owners without thinking; "maybe they have a way to make it work without putting the rats in danger"
Am i being clear so far?
yeah totally.
I guess this is a site full of people who care about animal welfare, so if it's brought up that there might potentially be something amiss, I think it's safe to say that 50 pet rats is a lot, which is why the alarm was raised.
I'm nitpicking for the sake of argument, not because I believe that you're going to change your ways or because it's my business. And with that I'll probably stop talking now because I don't actually have all that much knowledge on rats. But I do know vombatiformes very very well, and so if you want to argue with him about being a good rat-keeper, I'd suggest just being as concise and factual about your conditions as possible, haha.
I am more than happy to argue semantics though, if you feel like it. I think you could probably avoid drama like this if from the very start you referred to your rats as feeders and not as pets, for instance.
huumm well anyway even if this is where the conversation ends, thanks for allowing me to stretch my argument muscle, if only for a few paragraphs :)
I guess this is a site full of people who care about animal welfare, so if it's brought up that there might potentially be something amiss, I think it's safe to say that 50 pet rats is a lot, which is why the alarm was raised.
I'm nitpicking for the sake of argument, not because I believe that you're going to change your ways or because it's my business. And with that I'll probably stop talking now because I don't actually have all that much knowledge on rats. But I do know vombatiformes very very well, and so if you want to argue with him about being a good rat-keeper, I'd suggest just being as concise and factual about your conditions as possible, haha.
I am more than happy to argue semantics though, if you feel like it. I think you could probably avoid drama like this if from the very start you referred to your rats as feeders and not as pets, for instance.
huumm well anyway even if this is where the conversation ends, thanks for allowing me to stretch my argument muscle, if only for a few paragraphs :)
The reason i do NOT want to discus anything further with vombat is because it is quite appearent that he thinks our way of doing things is wrong.
I can only say that despite what anyone THINKS, these rats are not in harms way (other than the snakes of course)
Ive tried explaining multiple times to several different people (who seemed to take shines' words out of context) the conditions that made rats in tanks do-able.(at least in my opinion) It was just getting really frustrating every time someone would say that there is no exceptions.
I do thank you though for going a bit deeper into the true meaning of the argument itself rather than pointing fingers.
I can only say that despite what anyone THINKS, these rats are not in harms way (other than the snakes of course)
Ive tried explaining multiple times to several different people (who seemed to take shines' words out of context) the conditions that made rats in tanks do-able.(at least in my opinion) It was just getting really frustrating every time someone would say that there is no exceptions.
I do thank you though for going a bit deeper into the true meaning of the argument itself rather than pointing fingers.
What is the point of having a discussion with someone that is just going to mindlessly agree with you? ;u
It's not like I (or anyone else) hasn't listened to you when you've explained how you THINK you've made tanks humane for permanently housing rats. It's just that we completely disagree that what you've described IS adequate. That's what it appears you can't seem to wrap your head around -- the fact that you might be grossly misinformed about what rats require. I (and I know for a fact Skittle has as well) researched rats extensively for years and consider ourselves serious fanciers. We know pretty much what there is to know about pet conditions.
Agreeing with arpad, if your rats are not pets, then what we're arguing about is not pet conditions, it's about morality in regard to the conditions in which feeder rats should be kept. IMO even rats destined to become feeders should have the same stimulation and care (including VET CARE -- which, by the way, does NOT simply amount to taking them in to find out they're going to die of a tumor. Rats are prone to tonnes of different kinds of respiratory issues that are easily treated with antibiotics. Not really a death sentence, unless you CHOOSE to let them suffer and die.) Especially because reptiles that eat rodents generally don't require being fed very often. A large number of rodents just isn't necessary.
AND since your snakes don't require full grown rats, I would really just teach them (yes -- it's possible!) to eat dead (which is a pain in the ass, but dealing with shit that's a pain in the ass is sort of something you sign up for when you keep ANY pet and wish to care for them properly) and buy them frozen.
Have you considered feeder MICE if you're going to insist on keeping your own stock? They can be humanely kept in tanks, unlike rats, are much smaller and are actually a reasonable size for your snakes apparently.
It's not like I (or anyone else) hasn't listened to you when you've explained how you THINK you've made tanks humane for permanently housing rats. It's just that we completely disagree that what you've described IS adequate. That's what it appears you can't seem to wrap your head around -- the fact that you might be grossly misinformed about what rats require. I (and I know for a fact Skittle has as well) researched rats extensively for years and consider ourselves serious fanciers. We know pretty much what there is to know about pet conditions.
Agreeing with arpad, if your rats are not pets, then what we're arguing about is not pet conditions, it's about morality in regard to the conditions in which feeder rats should be kept. IMO even rats destined to become feeders should have the same stimulation and care (including VET CARE -- which, by the way, does NOT simply amount to taking them in to find out they're going to die of a tumor. Rats are prone to tonnes of different kinds of respiratory issues that are easily treated with antibiotics. Not really a death sentence, unless you CHOOSE to let them suffer and die.) Especially because reptiles that eat rodents generally don't require being fed very often. A large number of rodents just isn't necessary.
AND since your snakes don't require full grown rats, I would really just teach them (yes -- it's possible!) to eat dead (which is a pain in the ass, but dealing with shit that's a pain in the ass is sort of something you sign up for when you keep ANY pet and wish to care for them properly) and buy them frozen.
Have you considered feeder MICE if you're going to insist on keeping your own stock? They can be humanely kept in tanks, unlike rats, are much smaller and are actually a reasonable size for your snakes apparently.
i SAID they are for snakes. aint you a big boy name calling.. good job.. the one we breed are friendly like pets as i hold them all the time.. maybe you should do a bit more reading.. and this is so 3 weeks ago.. let it go.. i dont really care what any of you haters say.. rats are food.. end of it.
lol i dont get off on watching that.. i hate it.. not much i can do about it when my snakes will not eat dead.. and i dont hoard animals.. i breed rats for food.. thats not an animal hoarder if you even know anything about them.
first they cant sell or give away pets.. hmm we sell rats for food all the time.. hoarders CANT.. maybe learn a thing or two before you start calling someone something they are not..
im done with you now.. go play your games as i dont give a rats ass what you say.. i know whats true and thats what matters.. none of you know jack shit about my life and rats for food!
first they cant sell or give away pets.. hmm we sell rats for food all the time.. hoarders CANT.. maybe learn a thing or two before you start calling someone something they are not..
im done with you now.. go play your games as i dont give a rats ass what you say.. i know whats true and thats what matters.. none of you know jack shit about my life and rats for food!
wow.. again you didnt read everything... MORE then 30 of the rats are babies with there mom who cant even see yet.. we only have a FEW grown ones.. and i dont need to prove anything with pictures of anything.. i know they are cared for and loved so i dont care.. and you know what.. if we have them in a cage with bars.. my cat will pull off there damn tails.. as he did before.. so they are safe where they are.
I wasn't aware that pointing out improper care was close-minded.
You seem to have this attitude about animal care where you think that you can just do whatever you like, and so long as they're your pets, they will be fine. Like it's subjective or something. No. There is a right and wrong way to provide proper care for a living creature.
Maybe instead of dismissing criticism by claiming that we just "want to look good" (???) you should consider what's being told to you. It's not like I (or anyone else here) has just made shit up about rat care. What possible motivation would I or anyone else have for "making ourselves look good" (again, ???) by pointing out the errors you've made in rat care?
COMMON errors, I might add. It's not like I haven't seen behavior like yours before and it's not like it's not even forgivable if you would just be willing to learn from your damn mistakes.
You seem to have this attitude about animal care where you think that you can just do whatever you like, and so long as they're your pets, they will be fine. Like it's subjective or something. No. There is a right and wrong way to provide proper care for a living creature.
Maybe instead of dismissing criticism by claiming that we just "want to look good" (???) you should consider what's being told to you. It's not like I (or anyone else here) has just made shit up about rat care. What possible motivation would I or anyone else have for "making ourselves look good" (again, ???) by pointing out the errors you've made in rat care?
COMMON errors, I might add. It's not like I haven't seen behavior like yours before and it's not like it's not even forgivable if you would just be willing to learn from your damn mistakes.
The solution to this is very simple. You keep the rats in one room and do not allow the cat in that room, this does not require "locking" him in anywhere. This is very common practice. If you are unable to do this...that means you must have too many rats. ^^
And okay,you like the tanks- but don't comment about having them because you are only preparing yourself to have people call you out about it. Another thing, mentioning 50...anything is alarming to people unless you live on a farm as this makes people think of A) Mills B) Animal Hoarders. I will never agree with your way of caring for your so called "pets' and neither do most other people on this page. Deal with that, maybe you should listen to what we are saying instead of spewing awful insults.
Goodnight.
And okay,you like the tanks- but don't comment about having them because you are only preparing yourself to have people call you out about it. Another thing, mentioning 50...anything is alarming to people unless you live on a farm as this makes people think of A) Mills B) Animal Hoarders. I will never agree with your way of caring for your so called "pets' and neither do most other people on this page. Deal with that, maybe you should listen to what we are saying instead of spewing awful insults.
Goodnight.
If they are safer in a small room than they are in a large room...i'd go with the smaller room. But whatever, you will just always be right in your mind no matter what anyone tells you. I give up. You really should not have rats but I cannot save them from you two. Oh yeah btw, using multiple accounts so that you can continue to bother people after they have blocked you is a good way to get suspended.
Meep took abit to get to the bottom to comment but wow this is cute!
Almost want a hairless just to get one of these for XD My babes wouldn't put up with this but I have to say the way you made this with the back leg holes is a brilliant idea, I couldn't see them keeping it on for more then a min without backing out of it.
Almost want a hairless just to get one of these for XD My babes wouldn't put up with this but I have to say the way you made this with the back leg holes is a brilliant idea, I couldn't see them keeping it on for more then a min without backing out of it.
Oh my goodness that is a lot of drama. I'm sorry your cute rat sweater pic got turned into a battleground :O You'd think that with this many people disagreeing with them they would at least try to rethink their methods though. Deaf to all ears, I suppose *shrugs*
I agree with the other person's idea of making the sweaters into other animal's patterns though. You may find a good market for that in the way of Pokemon-based outfits, too. So cute =w=
I agree with the other person's idea of making the sweaters into other animal's patterns though. You may find a good market for that in the way of Pokemon-based outfits, too. So cute =w=
Late to the party, but oh my god, so cute! I've always wanted hairless rats, not sure if you can get them in Australia though haha not desperate enough to hunt around for them xD always been content with regular fuzzballs.
Also, I absolutely love all the amazing rat people that are standing up and -trying- to educate people on proper care, cages, and general welfare here <3
Also, I absolutely love all the amazing rat people that are standing up and -trying- to educate people on proper care, cages, and general welfare here <3
Wow that's a clusterfuck up above. That is totally unethical to overbreed animals like that. :c
Anyways this is a really cute sweater and I think you'd have a good time selling some if you ever did like little clothes-commissions. I haven't gotten a rat yet because I'm living with my boyfriend and his mom is scared of them, but we've been watching youtube videos and I've handled some and they seem quite snuggley and cute. We're hoping someday when we're together and married we can have a little rat pair. Maybe I'll name them Nidodemus and Master Splinter c:
Also I don't know much about them but it seems that even if you get two males they're so social they don't tear each other apart over sharing a space. Is that true?
Anyways this is a really cute sweater and I think you'd have a good time selling some if you ever did like little clothes-commissions. I haven't gotten a rat yet because I'm living with my boyfriend and his mom is scared of them, but we've been watching youtube videos and I've handled some and they seem quite snuggley and cute. We're hoping someday when we're together and married we can have a little rat pair. Maybe I'll name them Nidodemus and Master Splinter c:
Also I don't know much about them but it seems that even if you get two males they're so social they don't tear each other apart over sharing a space. Is that true?
You pretty much HAVE to keep them in at LEAST pairs of the same sex, unless you've got some that are neutered or something and you could place them with females.
We have six males and they don't do more than play-scuffle. Rats really aren't aggressive the way that people think they are, it's strange actually that that stereotype exist.
We have six males and they don't do more than play-scuffle. Rats really aren't aggressive the way that people think they are, it's strange actually that that stereotype exist.
I know, right? I mean, the most harm rats have ever done to me is that their little claws left a few scuff marks on my shoulder. But they are really sweet. I think I would get two males. Some of the pet shops where I live don't separate males and females so they warn you that you could get a pregnant female and if I was trying to find homes for a bunch of unexpected baby rights, I bet more people would be lining up to get them as food instead. I think they're not separated in some pet stores BECAUSE of the attitude that they are bought for food, not to be your friend.
There is so much ranting that could be done about live feeding and the attitude but I think I'd be preaching to the choir here. I just don't see it as anything more than someone having a power fantasy over two animals, end of story. I can't find anything morally defensible about live feeding. :/
There is so much ranting that could be done about live feeding and the attitude but I think I'd be preaching to the choir here. I just don't see it as anything more than someone having a power fantasy over two animals, end of story. I can't find anything morally defensible about live feeding. :/
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