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Zecora explains her independence to Big Macintosh, in rhyme of course. I had to abridge my original poem due to page constraints and to prevent covering up too much background.
Category All / All
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File Size 401 kB
Yeah but he does miss some points from the show. Episode 1 they demonstrate that Celestia and Luna/Nightmare moon do indeed have control over the changing of day and night. It isn't a matter of religion or faith, Zecorra here is speaking against physical fact. Unlike their real-world counterparts Celestia and Luna can claim divine right because they indeed possess truly divine power.
Zecora is not speaking against physical fact. Zecora lives in the Everfree Forest where, as the Mane Six themselves noted, "the plants grow, animals take care of themselves, and the clouds move ALL ON THEIR OWN!" It may well be that, in the forest, the sun does rise and set on its own, but needs Celestia's divine intervention in Equestria. Or maybe Zecora's wrong, and the sun depends on Celestia to rise and set everywhere. Or maybe she's right, and even Equestria would have the sun without Celestia. I imagine no one knows but Saint Lauren.
Not sure that Equestria is an entirely stable world. Maybe Celestia isn't "raising the sun" but is stabilizing a planetary rotation so that the world has a consistent rhythm. It may also be why so much of the natural ecosystem is so maintained. The sun may rise and set independent of Celestia...except without her help, the system would degrade.
The Everfree is a necessary wild element for the ecosystem, or maybe a "seed biome" needed to revitalize the planet, and may take centuries to be effective.
Meanwhile Luna's contribution won't be really known until we meet hippocampi ("sea ponies," hopefully not the G1 monstrosities).
The Everfree is a necessary wild element for the ecosystem, or maybe a "seed biome" needed to revitalize the planet, and may take centuries to be effective.
Meanwhile Luna's contribution won't be really known until we meet hippocampi ("sea ponies," hopefully not the G1 monstrosities).
Zecora isn't saying the sun or moon move on their own. She is saying that in the Everfree Forest, nature takes care of itself. She then says that she believes if Celestia stopped raising the sun, that nature would eventually take care of that as well and have the sun rise by some other force.
NICE work!!
I really like how you kept with her character by making her speak in rhyme, and kept Big Mac the strong silent type
... though I have to admit the gutter section of my mind right now would ADORE seeing those two in a more ... "heated discussion". ~_^
But that's just me LOVING your art style, and your previous works.
I really like how you kept with her character by making her speak in rhyme, and kept Big Mac the strong silent type
... though I have to admit the gutter section of my mind right now would ADORE seeing those two in a more ... "heated discussion". ~_^
But that's just me LOVING your art style, and your previous works.
Not nessasarly treason. In the pony world she might be speaking against real fact and laws.
It has been demonstrated in the show that the sun and moon can be controlled by beings of enough power. Discord caused night and day to change constantly. Celestia might not be lying at all when she says she raises the sun.
The rules may not apply throughout the whole of the world.
Furthermore free in this case is a relative idea. Yes Zecora is "free" of the work of having to maintain nature here, but not free of the work to having defend and feed herself. The ponies might actually like living as godlike beings in their world where they have certain responsibilities to fulfill in order to keep what seems to be a very high standard of living.
The major problem with monarchy is that there is almost never anyone who is good or stable enough to be a good monarch and when the rare case does come up you have to worry about what happens when they die. However in the pony world Celestia and Luna appear to both have the intelligence, experience and wisdom to rule along with practical immortality making them ideal monarchs.
In short. Applying real-world adult politics to pony-world systems just doesn't work too well.
It has been demonstrated in the show that the sun and moon can be controlled by beings of enough power. Discord caused night and day to change constantly. Celestia might not be lying at all when she says she raises the sun.
The rules may not apply throughout the whole of the world.
Furthermore free in this case is a relative idea. Yes Zecora is "free" of the work of having to maintain nature here, but not free of the work to having defend and feed herself. The ponies might actually like living as godlike beings in their world where they have certain responsibilities to fulfill in order to keep what seems to be a very high standard of living.
The major problem with monarchy is that there is almost never anyone who is good or stable enough to be a good monarch and when the rare case does come up you have to worry about what happens when they die. However in the pony world Celestia and Luna appear to both have the intelligence, experience and wisdom to rule along with practical immortality making them ideal monarchs.
In short. Applying real-world adult politics to pony-world systems just doesn't work too well.
You missed the point on Zecora's reasoning. Not once did she say she wanted to avoid the work of living among other ponies; what she said was that she didn't want to be indebted to the ponies who worked to manage nature. She doesn't want to owe a single sunray or flower to anyone else.
It's not like she's trying to make anyone else join her; she just mentioned that everything (Pegasus weather control, the princesses) is not necessary if you decide you don't want it, and that the world would go on.
It's not like she's trying to make anyone else join her; she just mentioned that everything (Pegasus weather control, the princesses) is not necessary if you decide you don't want it, and that the world would go on.
No I didn't. Her reasoning is based on a false choice. We are often unable to choose what communities we are in by nature and while that might seem unfair it is no matter of justice. Nature is what it is and is neither just or unfair. While we have some freedom of association the nature of the universe is such that we are born into some communities and are members of others by simple physical locality. By nature human beings need to live in communities and those communities need to be supported. The planet earth simply cannot support six billion people otherwise. You nor I nor anyone gets a choice over weather or not there are six billion people. We cannot justly say which of those six billion people should not be. Therefore some provision should be made to support everybody. It isn't a matter of fairness or justice that they or I or you exist. It isn't' a matter of justice that we owe responsibility to one another it is a matter of nature.
Justice inherently is only due to those things that mankind can change; all else is insanity. It is like prosecuting a tornado for murder and property destruction.
Justice inherently is only due to those things that mankind can change; all else is insanity. It is like prosecuting a tornado for murder and property destruction.
It isn't a matter of justice that every human be slave to every other human's hungry mouth. It's on that baseless moral reasoning that tyrannies are built, and freedoms are abridged, as ever human need is perpetual and inexhaustible. But when one realizes that one man's hunger is not the fault of his being able to eat, he realizes that his decision to help is one of choice, not a matter of "owing" as you put it.
What Zecora is talking about is choice. She isn't rejecting community, she's deciding her level of association with others, how much and whomever she chooses, not rejecting it all together. And that I throw in a little questioning about the laws of gravity and motion in regards to the sun is my own addition.
Arguing the canon nature of a cartoon isn't the point of this comic. And an argument about man's moral obligation to others isn't either. If you insist on it, it won't get far.
What Zecora is talking about is choice. She isn't rejecting community, she's deciding her level of association with others, how much and whomever she chooses, not rejecting it all together. And that I throw in a little questioning about the laws of gravity and motion in regards to the sun is my own addition.
Arguing the canon nature of a cartoon isn't the point of this comic. And an argument about man's moral obligation to others isn't either. If you insist on it, it won't get far.
One stanza was omitted:
The benefits of community are not lost on me,
But not by obligation, need, or decree.
Preferable is a community by choice.
When and how you are with others,
You can express by voice.
Obviously not as relevant to the nature of the Everfree forest, so it was the least important and could stand to be cut.
The benefits of community are not lost on me,
But not by obligation, need, or decree.
Preferable is a community by choice.
When and how you are with others,
You can express by voice.
Obviously not as relevant to the nature of the Everfree forest, so it was the least important and could stand to be cut.
Actually, men are more beholden to one another in a tribal society. Civilization sets men free from force and obligations to other men. What it opens up is the *choice* in our relationships with others. We've been backsliding on this, but it is by no means a sign of progress.
Choice choice choice. It's what every statist leaves out of their social contract.
Choice choice choice. It's what every statist leaves out of their social contract.
I now realize I was speaking more about civilization in terms of ecology and entropy (ie, order tends to disorder unless regularly maintained by an influx of energy) instead of sociology and ethics, thereby getting an unintended point and missing the main one.
Story of my life :p
Story of my life :p
I like how you did this, and how clearly you made Zecora's views come across without breaking her or Big Mac's characters. One thing that I really like about it is how it made me think, and what ideas it festered in my own mind about the world of ponies. Nicely done as ever Mr Naylor.
it doesn't ,or may be it did.. or may be it will, or may be equestria was earth till discord decided that the world would be funnier if it was rule by ponies instead of humans, maybe is not earth and when celestia and luna defeat discord Everfree didn't exist and all there was it was chaos and the universe really needed of someone to give it order but things start changing with time.. who really knows?
![[r-e-n-d]](http://a.furaffinity.net/1424255659/%5Br-e-n-d%5D.gif)
An interesting concept... while there is no doubt that, in pony world, every bit of nature can be controlled, the Everfree Forest does prove that without that control things find their own way... perhaps the princesses can simply override what would happen naturally (hence why Luna was able to keep nighttime going longer than it should). And I like the idea of Zecora living out there because she doesn't want to be in anypony's debt.
This touches on my passion for the environment in a really strong way. It makes me think of the messages and ideas that the MLP series presents with certain episodes or concept. Whilst I love Zecroa's take on nature, although I do like the way of how Ponies are involved with the environment's 'function' (if only humanity were that sensitive to the natural world =p).
Wonderful comic Fisk! You do the heard proud.
Wonderful comic Fisk! You do the heard proud.
Ha ha oh well never mind then. Liberalism did come up in my mind from Zecora's lines actually, but I concluded on an environmental take rather than a political one due to the mentioning of weather the sun and the scenes in general.
Still, very good comic and I appreciate the clarification of my misleading =).
Still, very good comic and I appreciate the clarification of my misleading =).
I love both the way you portray the characters and the poetic ramblings that flow so well. I just recently started watching the show, but it seems your take on her philosophy is very accurate, just more to the point. She alludes to ideas like what you've summed up so well in a number of her little "lessons." I was actually even hearing her voice in my head as I read it.
I find it amusing how almost...defensive? some peoples responses to this comic are. It is just that, a comic, based on a cartoon, in a fictional world... Ah the entertainment of the internet.
All in all, amazing work as always! Can't wait to see what you come up with next!
I find it amusing how almost...defensive? some peoples responses to this comic are. It is just that, a comic, based on a cartoon, in a fictional world... Ah the entertainment of the internet.
All in all, amazing work as always! Can't wait to see what you come up with next!
its still free will you are trying to limit. This is why I say there always have to be a balance because you can never have pure freedom without understanding that there is evil that will wish to be free to.
In the end just trying to get a better understand what is freedom to you.
In the end just trying to get a better understand what is freedom to you.
You can't have freedom as a societal concept, the freedom to act, the freedom to profit from your actions, if other men are "free" to hit you over the head with a club and seize your property or kill you. If you're saying that freedom is limited because you're not allowed to take freedom from another person, you can argue those semantics all day long, and I'll leave you to it. But in point, you are "free" (in a free-will sense) to initiate force against others, and by choice, you've accepted their retaliation and absolved yourself of any refuge within your own right to freedom and any sense of "rights" you may demand, as you've not accepted to recognize them in others.
Freedom in a social context means that might doesn't equal right, and that crime is punished. The need to punish crime doesn't justify the curtailing of the freedoms of non-criminals. It is a concept that exists within the political framework of a society, not a condition offered by the natural world as in "anything we feel like doing".
I can't make it any more clear.
Freedom in a social context means that might doesn't equal right, and that crime is punished. The need to punish crime doesn't justify the curtailing of the freedoms of non-criminals. It is a concept that exists within the political framework of a society, not a condition offered by the natural world as in "anything we feel like doing".
I can't make it any more clear.
Interesting. Its more that I was just curious what you mean by freedom. For as you have even explained above, freedom can mean different things in different context. For freedom is simply a concept, something that will mean something different to every individual.
But I have sooooooo digressed from the pic itself. Love the style you do the ponies in .
Should you wish more of a social discussion I will gladly take it to notes.
But I have sooooooo digressed from the pic itself. Love the style you do the ponies in .
Should you wish more of a social discussion I will gladly take it to notes.
You're doing a very good job of depicting Zecora in natural rhyme that isn't too hokey. Better still it contains a fair amount of deeper concepts that fit her character perfectly. I must commend your visual depictions thus far, your presentations of their personalities, and the possession of actual substance behind the comic without actually making a statement yourself. Very well done indeed.
I would agree completely with Zecora if it weren't for the fact that Equestria's success and prosperity comes from the ponies' abilities to control the elements of nature and make them act in a beneficial way (as well as an unnaturally near complete absence of selfishness in their society, save for the nobles). How many times do you think their harvest would have been ruined by drought or excessive rains if they did not regulate the weather? I'm not saying Zecora is wrong, in fact she's mostly right, but in a large, progressing society like Equestria, there are more pros than cons to regulating the weather like they do.
...
I over analyzed this way to much. :P
...
I over analyzed this way to much. :P
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