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So... unless you don't follow the series or happen to live in a cave I'm sure word has gotten to you about a recent interview with Shigeru Miyomoto regarding the Koopalings.
http://nintendo3dsdaily.com/wp-cont.....9/No-koopa.jpg
And well... aside from the fact that we'll get people yelling this in our ears forever now, I have a number of beefs with this. Not sure where to begin... I guess I'll just list points on what problems I have and elaborate.
- "Current story" using first because it's a minor niggle: When you change something as major as one of the main characters FAMILY that might bear a bit of elaboration. It's not like he even said "they never were" but they're "currently not".
- Names: Okay, so in Japan, Bowser is regarded as "great demon king koopa" so if he had a bunch of minions that also happened to be a similar species then naturally they'd be "little demons"... except they're called "little Koopas" or in English terms that'd be "little Bowsers" and well, the use of Bowser's name alone implies a connection beyond that of a standard goon...
Okay, now for the bigger problems:
- Minions: It seems people are arguing that because they're called minions or underlings it directly means they're not Bowser's kids. Well... I don't think it changes a thing. After all, "minion" simply means they work for someone else. Bowser Jr often works for Bowser and thus, is technically Bowser's son AND his underling.
- Employment: If the Koopalings really are nothing more than henchmen it brings up a really, really, really big question: Why is Bowser placing CHILDREN in his army? And in high-ranking positions no less! If there was a whole race like Bowser... wouldn't he have employed adults?
- Treatment: The way Bowser seems to treat them and vice versa wouldn't really add up with what we've seen. How many underlings have been given their own castles on multiple occasions by Bowser since he was old enough to rule without Kamek? Simple, only Junior and the Koopalings. Not to mention none of the other lackeys were given, say, airships with their own faces on it. I don't think even Junior got one of those. Not to mention a lot of standard minions never got as many chances as the Koopalings either. I mean, they've been defeated about 5 times or something so far, yet Bowser keeps bringing them along and not other powerful underlings that have failed less.
- Competence: Again, something completely unlike other minions and shared in common only with Jr is that they've been able to abduct Peach without assistance from Bowser, excluding cases like the X-Nauts and Fawful for the obvious reason that they never actually worked for Bowser. Again, it's not like Bowser would lend the koopa clown car to them if they were just standard minions... unless the Koopalings stole it and even then the fact that they weren't immediately exiled for stealing his stuff says quite a lot.
- "It's from Japan/It's word of god so it has to be true!": Erm... right. Remember how in the Japanese continuity Sonic the Hedgehog was supposedly always been on Earth? Yeah, I really remember the geologically impossible loop-de-loops and stuff last time I went for a walk. Hoo boy those were a doozy.
Now I've actually seen people saying how Nintendo of America were "misleading" people on the insistence of them being Bowser's kids... well not really in the slightest. NoA's only "crime" was getting the Japanese material and trying to make sense of it. After all, if you'd seen a bunch of character designs labeled as "little (character name here)" one would probably assume a relation since it's not "little (species)"
Personally, I like to question things. I tend to ignore the word of god and look at what I know.:P And because of that, I still believe the Koopalings are Bowser's kids, simply because it makes far more sense than otherwise. But that's just my two cents on the matter.
Oh, hopefully some of you found Lemmy Objecting to be amusing too. :3
http://nintendo3dsdaily.com/wp-cont.....9/No-koopa.jpg
And well... aside from the fact that we'll get people yelling this in our ears forever now, I have a number of beefs with this. Not sure where to begin... I guess I'll just list points on what problems I have and elaborate.
- "Current story" using first because it's a minor niggle: When you change something as major as one of the main characters FAMILY that might bear a bit of elaboration. It's not like he even said "they never were" but they're "currently not".
- Names: Okay, so in Japan, Bowser is regarded as "great demon king koopa" so if he had a bunch of minions that also happened to be a similar species then naturally they'd be "little demons"... except they're called "little Koopas" or in English terms that'd be "little Bowsers" and well, the use of Bowser's name alone implies a connection beyond that of a standard goon...
Okay, now for the bigger problems:
- Minions: It seems people are arguing that because they're called minions or underlings it directly means they're not Bowser's kids. Well... I don't think it changes a thing. After all, "minion" simply means they work for someone else. Bowser Jr often works for Bowser and thus, is technically Bowser's son AND his underling.
- Employment: If the Koopalings really are nothing more than henchmen it brings up a really, really, really big question: Why is Bowser placing CHILDREN in his army? And in high-ranking positions no less! If there was a whole race like Bowser... wouldn't he have employed adults?
- Treatment: The way Bowser seems to treat them and vice versa wouldn't really add up with what we've seen. How many underlings have been given their own castles on multiple occasions by Bowser since he was old enough to rule without Kamek? Simple, only Junior and the Koopalings. Not to mention none of the other lackeys were given, say, airships with their own faces on it. I don't think even Junior got one of those. Not to mention a lot of standard minions never got as many chances as the Koopalings either. I mean, they've been defeated about 5 times or something so far, yet Bowser keeps bringing them along and not other powerful underlings that have failed less.
- Competence: Again, something completely unlike other minions and shared in common only with Jr is that they've been able to abduct Peach without assistance from Bowser, excluding cases like the X-Nauts and Fawful for the obvious reason that they never actually worked for Bowser. Again, it's not like Bowser would lend the koopa clown car to them if they were just standard minions... unless the Koopalings stole it and even then the fact that they weren't immediately exiled for stealing his stuff says quite a lot.
- "It's from Japan/It's word of god so it has to be true!": Erm... right. Remember how in the Japanese continuity Sonic the Hedgehog was supposedly always been on Earth? Yeah, I really remember the geologically impossible loop-de-loops and stuff last time I went for a walk. Hoo boy those were a doozy.
Now I've actually seen people saying how Nintendo of America were "misleading" people on the insistence of them being Bowser's kids... well not really in the slightest. NoA's only "crime" was getting the Japanese material and trying to make sense of it. After all, if you'd seen a bunch of character designs labeled as "little (character name here)" one would probably assume a relation since it's not "little (species)"
Personally, I like to question things. I tend to ignore the word of god and look at what I know.:P And because of that, I still believe the Koopalings are Bowser's kids, simply because it makes far more sense than otherwise. But that's just my two cents on the matter.
Oh, hopefully some of you found Lemmy Objecting to be amusing too. :3
Category All / Miscellaneous
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 522 x 406px
File Size 73.1 kB
Hey, random passersby here. I actually asked this question a while back in a journal. One of the responses was that Bowser has many illegitimate children, which at the time I was doing research into this matter I found somewhat believable.
But then comes into the matter are the lesser known Koopa Kids, who first appeared in Mario Party Advance (which I've played long ago) and if I'm not mistaken some later Mario Party titles(I haven't played a game past Mario Party 3 or Mario Party DS). What of their relation to Bowser, I wonder? My thoughts are the same yours to the Koopalings, even more so to Bowser Jr, seeing as they could be considered colorations of Jr.
But then comes into the matter are the lesser known Koopa Kids, who first appeared in Mario Party Advance (which I've played long ago) and if I'm not mistaken some later Mario Party titles(I haven't played a game past Mario Party 3 or Mario Party DS). What of their relation to Bowser, I wonder? My thoughts are the same yours to the Koopalings, even more so to Bowser Jr, seeing as they could be considered colorations of Jr.
If I may join in,
The Koopa Kids were actually introduced all the way back in the first Mario Party. They replaced Toad as the Star vendor in the final stage.
Back then they had a different name in each region. Mini-Bowser for PAL regions, Mini Koopa in Japan and Baby Bowser in the Americas.
Given the name I first knew them as, Mini-Bowser, I assumed they were clones of a sort. Kind of like Bowser's personal Mini-Mes. However, apparently, in Mario Party 4 they refer to Bowser as "dad".
Frankly, it just makes me want to disregard the Mario Party series as even remotely canon.
The Koopa Kids were actually introduced all the way back in the first Mario Party. They replaced Toad as the Star vendor in the final stage.
Back then they had a different name in each region. Mini-Bowser for PAL regions, Mini Koopa in Japan and Baby Bowser in the Americas.
Given the name I first knew them as, Mini-Bowser, I assumed they were clones of a sort. Kind of like Bowser's personal Mini-Mes. However, apparently, in Mario Party 4 they refer to Bowser as "dad".
Frankly, it just makes me want to disregard the Mario Party series as even remotely canon.
Hm... can't argue with that. I vaguely remember the ending to the first game, now that you mention it. I think they appear outside those games too, but I'm certain they do not.
And I wouldn't disagree there, considering how virtually nothing from those games contributes elements to the main games. At least, not yet.
And I wouldn't disagree there, considering how virtually nothing from those games contributes elements to the main games. At least, not yet.
Well having many illegitimate kids is something I'd actually buy... except that'd still mean they were Bowser's bastard spawn.
As far as my headcanon is concerned the Mini-Bowsers were failed cloning attempts and Jr was the only successful one. I mean, he DID replace them after all. Presumably the mini-bowser/koopa kids were just disposed of as soon as Junior got old enough. :V
As far as my headcanon is concerned the Mini-Bowsers were failed cloning attempts and Jr was the only successful one. I mean, he DID replace them after all. Presumably the mini-bowser/koopa kids were just disposed of as soon as Junior got old enough. :V
Talk about Mario? Don't mind if I do!
Regarding your first point... It's a retcon. Miyamoto didn't say they are "currently not" his children, in that sense. He said that the current story (as in; different from the past story, and may change again sometime in the future) is that they are NOT his children. As in, they never were within the current canon. Being someone's child isn't exactly something you can stop doing. Even if you are disowned, you would still be that person's child biologically.
This is pretty much what happened when Yoshi's Island erased Mario and Luigi's brooklyn origins and instead opted to make them native Mushroom Kingdom..-ers. A new idea is introduced, and all past references to the contrary aren't explained so much as just quietly swept under the rug.
Frankly, though, what Miyamoto says doesn't really matter. He's the most important figure when it comes to Mario games, but far from the only. Miyamoto has said a lot of things that directly contradicts things that have happened in his games. And I can see why that would happen. Miyamoto really doesn't seem concerned with story. He probably just can't be bothered to keep track of it all, or even enforce the ideas he does have.
To quote Dr Who: "I reject your reality and substitute my own!"
You can believe whatever you damn please. Especially when it comes to a narrative as unstable as Mario's.
Regarding your first point... It's a retcon. Miyamoto didn't say they are "currently not" his children, in that sense. He said that the current story (as in; different from the past story, and may change again sometime in the future) is that they are NOT his children. As in, they never were within the current canon. Being someone's child isn't exactly something you can stop doing. Even if you are disowned, you would still be that person's child biologically.
This is pretty much what happened when Yoshi's Island erased Mario and Luigi's brooklyn origins and instead opted to make them native Mushroom Kingdom..-ers. A new idea is introduced, and all past references to the contrary aren't explained so much as just quietly swept under the rug.
Frankly, though, what Miyamoto says doesn't really matter. He's the most important figure when it comes to Mario games, but far from the only. Miyamoto has said a lot of things that directly contradicts things that have happened in his games. And I can see why that would happen. Miyamoto really doesn't seem concerned with story. He probably just can't be bothered to keep track of it all, or even enforce the ideas he does have.
To quote Dr Who: "I reject your reality and substitute my own!"
You can believe whatever you damn please. Especially when it comes to a narrative as unstable as Mario's.
Sometimes I wonder if maybe Shiggy's just going a bit senile in his old age.
Mario and Luigi's origins though, I think what it is as of Yoshi's Island is that they were born in the Mushroom Kingdom, ended up growing up in Brooklyn, somehow gaining stereotypical Italian accents in the process, and one day found a pipe leading to the kingdom while doing their usual plumber/construction work, and they've stayed there ever since.
Mario and Luigi's origins though, I think what it is as of Yoshi's Island is that they were born in the Mushroom Kingdom, ended up growing up in Brooklyn, somehow gaining stereotypical Italian accents in the process, and one day found a pipe leading to the kingdom while doing their usual plumber/construction work, and they've stayed there ever since.
In the cancelled, "planned" continuation of whatever cannon the Mushroom kingdom actually has, it is suggested that this is actually what happened. As, even in the cartoons, even though they don't flesh out story much and just teach life lessons or generally act goofy, it is hinted at that they originated in the Mushroom kingdom. But according to those same cartoons, it begins with them leaving from Brooklyn.
Sonic DOES take place on Earth though. Some of the 3D games are even set in America, and the notes for the first game mention Christmas Island as being the location of Green Hill Zone and Sonic's birthplace. "Mobius" was a concept made up by the same dumbass advertisers who made up "blast processing", cause they thought the game wouldn't sell unless kids thought it took place in some "TOTALLY WACKY ALIEN WORLD~!" that's never once mentioned in the games themselves.
It is also heavily hinted at that the Koopalings are now "pseudo adopted" by Bowser. This means to say that they are LIKE his kids now, but aren't really his. More like "future leaders in training" as Bowser himself points out by how he treats them. Their current military positions only accentuate this because they don't yet have total control over an entire section of army. They are usually monitored by Kammy and other Magikoopas, seen as the guardians of Bowser's prodige, and have limited control over troops.
This represents their in-training status completely.
Maybe the current ark is trying to show that, when they grow into adulthood, they are to rule by Bowser's side as sort of governors of the different lands surrounding the Mushroom Kingdom. Also of note is that only the center area of the "maps" that have been shown over the years is actually Mushroom Kingdom territory. The others are regions Bowser also plans to conquer, and are the regions he sends his Koopas to. Bowser himself rules the volcano, which, in most of the maps is to the northeast, but in Mario and Luigi is located to the southwest. (Except Inside Story, which has the volcano in its original place again. Partners in Time may be the only one that specifically shows the location of his castle being to the southwest.)
This represents their in-training status completely.
Maybe the current ark is trying to show that, when they grow into adulthood, they are to rule by Bowser's side as sort of governors of the different lands surrounding the Mushroom Kingdom. Also of note is that only the center area of the "maps" that have been shown over the years is actually Mushroom Kingdom territory. The others are regions Bowser also plans to conquer, and are the regions he sends his Koopas to. Bowser himself rules the volcano, which, in most of the maps is to the northeast, but in Mario and Luigi is located to the southwest. (Except Inside Story, which has the volcano in its original place again. Partners in Time may be the only one that specifically shows the location of his castle being to the southwest.)
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