Still Here
15 years ago
General
I'm still here, not going anywhere.
We'll have an explanation posted soon.
We'll have an explanation posted soon.
Digimon | Virus-Type | Registered: December 4, 2005 07:32:59 PM
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Reverse Schadenfreude. It sucks, but I suppose I was due.
This website has been irreplaceable for the past few years and I think anyone should be immensely proud of the accomplishment that this thing is.
Good luck.
And they'll go with it, gossip, make rumors.
But you have to look at the entire thing. All of it, and look at how much good comes from the entire site.
DeviantArt just went through something very similar. It's unfortunate, and it sucks, but you carry on.
I"m sorry about all the personal bullshit because I feel like it's uncalled for, I don't want to sound like a suckass but this site has and probably always will be important. Do what you gotta do keep it the best damn artsite around (even with all the flaws).
Toumal is really good at keeping his site stable with few security breaches.
To be fair, Dragoneer, many concerns raised by FA users over the weekend were not taken out of context, but from your own words and actions -- or lack of action.
People have raised points that I would urge you to hear, about security of the site and the personal safety of its members:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1952576/
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1952230/
These issues will not go away until you and the other admins deal with them with greater honesty and transparency than in the past.
I sincerely hope that you can find the strength and integrity to do this.
Mark
For many of us, despite all the limitations and frustrations of the site, FA matters, and the people here matter even more. If we see them ignored, censored, lied to, or preyed upon, then we get angry.
That's a connection that goes far beyond money.
so that's the way you want to play it, then? you reap what you sow.
so that's the way you want to play it, then? you reap what you sow.
Really, Straight to the point is what's needed. Any pussyfooting around would really just make 'Neer look worse in the long run, and have people demanding answers and burning effigies.
Like I did mention before. People are getting pissed for all sorts of things right now, so 'Neer might as well be righ to the point and get things said.
As for being direct to Ferality. He wasn't wrong. he COULD have handled things better. But, we're human, he's human, and we're all just animals with morals.
Short version: Shit happens. Best to just carry on ASAP.
I think i know what could help FA. Get more admins. If 21 isn't enough to read support tickets (because i have some that have expired and never been read), i think either you got some not doing their job or not really here at all. Inactive admins = less moderation being done. They need booted and replaced with people who are ready and able. With how big this site is becoming you really need a staff dedicated to support tickets. It's either that or remove that feature entirely since it is picking up dust.
just sayin bro
No "hacker" is keeping me down!
I love it.
For the record I still don't get a whit of what this hack/compromise accomplished, aside from major inconvenience and some definite loss of privacy. There's something to be proud of.
Honest question man.
You have a wonderful sense of humor, neer.
I genuinely commend you on that.
I certainly do. We always have tomorrow to face, and the day after that.
I don't care how people broke in. I want to know why the site was not yanked down the second you saw it was being fucked up.
Which mod was it? Not going to launch a attack but would go along way to clear pinkuh's name if it wasn't her.
Um... no. Dragoneer did not create this site. He wasn't even instrumental in its development. He took over a couple years later when he bought it out. So, chances are, without him the site would still be here, and it's a tossup whether it would be run better or worse or the same.
If there's a clarification coming to quell the rumors, that would be awesome. In the meantime, I guess I'll sit back and wave farewell to all those who say they're leaving. :3
8[Bannor]8
And hey! That meth addicted hobo is a genius in his very own special way! :P
*so many hugs*
But sometimes with this site it's best if it just passes right by you. I'm quite happy not knowing as long as I have this plate of cookies. XD
The funny thing is, the only way for Dragoneer not to have known about these massive security problems (over the few years myself and various others have been complaining about them) would have to be "complete ignorance".
You actually DID apologizing for "misspeaking" when it looked as if you'd told a rape victim to hush up and not cause waves. But it's really low of you not to have at least taken responsibility, as site administrator, for the privacy of at least two of yours users being invaded. You owe them that since you're the one who fucked up.
It was like watching a game of Halo, no matter how many trolls and aliens were annoyed with Toonces, and tried to take him down he wouldnt just keel over and die.
I have to agree.
I think, Dragoneer, that a sincere apology, a sincere effort to set up clear guidelines for handling these issues in the future, would go a long way to winning back the respect of those women (and men!) who saw that your concern and your empathy were less than they could have been and extremely one-sided.
As for people who use FA to prey on others... you really should face up to them as well. We need a clear way to warn people -- openly.
There isn't anything being taken out of context because it's your own notes and your own words and your own actions that are being referenced. If you, the person with whom the buck stops, has screwed up on such a massive level and is publically declaring that not only are your own words and actions that have disapponted being taken out of context but that you are sticking around, you'd better have a damned good reason.
I have kept my nose out of "fur affinity drama". I like it here. I have made lasting, life changing friendships thanks to this community. But the way you've been acting this week has made many others including me, feel less safe.
Thank you for mentioning this!
Dragoneer, very few of us are members of that furrydrama livejournal (where, despite your growing responsibilities here, Teahound has offered to make you co-admin), and posting your updates there will not reach us here on FA.
The only prompt information and warnings I noticed here came from concerned people who had nothing to do with administration, yet took it upon themselves to get information out to the rest of us.
If you and your admins could show a similar initiative and concern, I think that you could win greater trust from the people who should matter to you. We're not furrydrama, we're FA.
The only prompt information and warnings I noticed here came from concerned people who had nothing to do with administration, yet took it upon themselves to get information out to the rest of us.
Exactly. This goes double because the community on livejournal in question is locked, with membership currently closed. So unless you happen to be a member (of which, most of your site userbase is not), you can't even read what you've said.
If it wasn't for concerned friends spreading the word, I certainly wouldn't have know, either. There was no trouble putting out site wide notices about Everyone Draw Mohammed Day or changes to the site TOS and AUP. If for some reason you couldn't have placed a notice site wide or linked to clear-easy-to find place that outlined what was going on, what precautions users could take, and what would be done, then there at least should have been a mass email sent to users. Going forward, aside from showing real, honest contrition, there must be a way outlined for you and other admins to communicate with the site as a whole when problems of this magnitude come up.
Frankly, don't know what some kind of public apology before he knows what he's apologizing for is going to be any smarter. Maybe you missed the whole jest of this journal, but he's gathering the information on what exactly happened, and will make a statement when that's done. But hey. Maybe you're the type of person who wants him to go off, half-cocked and make more dumb public statements. I bet that sounds like fun to you, doesn't it?
dont you mean
"oops i didnt read that paragraph"
I suppose my tastes are eclectic. :)
I just wanted to say Dragoneer, please dont take what they say to heart, everyone is different, and I dont think wrongly of u for liking what u like, to be honest I like it a bit as well, Im not gonna lie, so ur nothing bad in my book.
People just need to shut the hell up.
I hope everything turns out good in the end Administrator. And with that I take my leave and hope that my comment leaves a positive influence on u.
Hope to hear from you again.
I suppose this will just have to be an event we all learn from and move on.
lol God name oh dear
7And if thou shouldst be cast into the a pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.
Use what you have learned through all these journals that have blown up.
You lying to me!!! D;
lol jk
I can't wait to hear the whole story.
Damnit, there go my plans for a coup in the chaos.
Until our dying day, until we're old and grey.." Business -Eminem
I'm pretty much tired of those "FA Doomsday Journals" on my notifications. =/
Just wish you luck with handling all of this mess, 'Neer.
and sad that people are getting so worked up over some of it...
I'm still here.
Seriously, I send you my continuous gratitude, respect and constant praise.
The last days seemed to be a hell of stress for you. (from my point of vision)
its been a mass hysteria on Fa lately..
It will be good to know what has been going on.
I hope things settle down here, glad to hear you're still kickin
Anyone care to fill me in? I get that some idiotic person said they'd hack and slash the site on 11 EST
but other than that, i dunno shiz o.o
It might not count for much, but you still have my support.
Ban me if you must.
However, after (thoroughly) reading YiffyLeaks, I actually have more respect for Dragoneer for showing a more level head than the white knights and exhibiting a pro-community attitude over the aggressive dictatorial attitude so many white knights want to see.
It shows true concern over the users, victims, and even predators. The white knights are unconcerned with the repurcussions, and feel the ends justify the means, no matter who else gets drowned in the drama to do it.
Soon as in...today? Maybe? It's been two hours. You'd think soon would have fallen in that timeframe, but...
I eagerly await to see how you try to explain all this...if you come forward and finally come clean, tell the truth and try to clear the air, or if you continue to throw up clouds of smoke and debris to try and hide everything.
The site was hacked one-and-a-half-to-two times in a row, something people have been warning him about happening, in between incidents (this has happened before, but without the leaked notes).
Someone leaked 41 user's notes.
Dragoneer made a journal that contained an outright falsehood ("is FA secure? yes!", when the reality of the situation is that they weren't aware of the full extent of the damage.)
You can't suffer two hacks in a week's span, then turn around a day later and say "we're secure, yep".
Of course, if you ask anyone else, you'll hear "LEAVE DRAGONEER ALONE!!!! HE'S MY YIFFY PAL!"
I think you can pull through, and I think that you'll be able to wade through all the comments and hate-mongering to pull this site up again.
Those who left, well, we're better off without them. I, for one, am going to stay, and it looks like the majority of users are staying.
Which I -think- is a good thing.
Anyway, again, good luck with everything, and I'm really happy you're not leaving.
take down your last journal, then
Women on FA would probably want to see that journal: the policies he makes, and the implications of those policies, will most likely reflect issues that were first raised there.
It's an important source.
But if all of that shows just where certain attitudes lie on FA, it might be better to know... and to confront that reality head on.
But the damage has been done, thanks to FA's tissue-paper security, thanks to Dragoneer's less than diplomatic approach to journal writing. Word is pretty much everywhere. That's a mistake that people will remember.
What they might not remember is that people stood up to it, and openly called for a new approach to sensitive matters like this one. That makes the journal worth keeping -- if it keeps Dragoneer honest.
that means yes. I am leaving.
oops i just leaked my own note
a little bit of life advice: dragoneer isn't the one who needs to know about threatening voice mails. call your goddamn phone company.
Of course, I'm pretty sure he is aware of what his actions caused. I just don't think he cares. He'll just babble some internet meme, say something about how he supports the community, and how everything is under control. Oh, then he'll delete the journal because it makes him look bad.
I'll be very surprised if this isn't the way it goes down.
are you asking why i dont report dragoneer to the PD and simply sweep this under the rug, or are you asking why does my info need to be kept private?
right now that'd just be a bad idea
You know what works? I know you can't exactly ignore what was done to you, but shutting up about it on the damn internet does help. Talk to police, fuck the internet. You're going to stir up more problems by posting this shit online.
You may or may not see my comment among others, But I'm not going anywhere either, lol. After being bounced from various other furry sites, this one one I'll stick to till the end... Even through any drama that pops up.
Anything that's said by anyone can and will be taken the wrong way by someone... I'm not choosing sides on anything, but also am not adding to the drama. It is what it is and just hope things will continue on. :)
I only hope my humble opinion won't get me totally banninated, since the person in question has quite a temper ._.
the only thing you continue to say is "THIS SOCKS WITH THOS ADMIN WORKINNNGGG"
and WarMock (who is quite possibly the admin who is the nicest of them all and most willing to solve a problem)
Damaratus is also okay but he has his slips (he thought I was trolling once and we got into a little argument but
the misunderstanding got cleared and I did not stop liking him).
I have no problem with the other admins in general.
But there are two or three of them that make me sick to my stomach just when I see their user icons
I JUST CAN'T FORCE MYSELF TO LIKE THEM D:
Dude, I can do that same thing. Would you then "kinda owe me"?
Dragoneer has a long-running habit of sweeping gaping security problems under the rug. This is well-documented. Would you like to hear more?
;)
if you're up to read my opinion, along with the
shitstuff someone else postedMost people are wanting an explanation for Neer's responses to Ferality about her story of Zaush (I have no opinion on if it is true or not but there are people on each side of that issue), as well as his response involving zoo.
I'd vomit back up all the rules about passwords, but I'm sure this has already spoken for me.
And while the compromised admin didn't MEAN to have their account hacked into.. they put a lot of people in jeopardy and exposed a lot of things that shouldn't have been exposed. Do you plan on firing this admin? Because at any other company, the particular personnel responsible would be given a pink slip.
Also, do you know who did the hacking? Was it one person or more? And will you be telling us who, or let them remain anonymous?
I think that the admins might listen sometimes. But listening is much different from accepting what we have to say, realizing we are right, and putting the most intelligent decisions into effect. Just because you get someone to code doesn't mean you have to get new admins. You can hire coders, have them code, and their job be done, plain and simple. It's actually exactly what my mate does. It's a job to do, and unless they are looking for permanent coders, freelancers can be the way to do. But I think they need to do a bit of both.
Once all the proverbial 'midden' has finally settled and at least been stowed away then you can go into what details you can; I know a list of affected users would certainly come in handy if nothing else and if there are any actions we should be taking etc etc etc.
1. The site goes down for from what I heard was 4 hours.
2. All the administrater accounts were changed to regular member account.
3. FAF being down for the past few days. (When is FAF going to be back up?)
4. All the administraters for the past few days being so quiet about it. (We don't need to know the full story before all the information has been gathered, just a quick administrater notice that administrater accounts were hacked and that it being looked into and that any damage done is being fixed or will be fixed.)
Glad you're not leaving for whatever reason, but I hope -you- type up your own damn excuse, and not just some horseshit yak tells you to say, they're your notes, we want to hear from you. And only you
I just don't want yak to give him something random to say as damage control, I want Neer to man up and explain why he's tipping off animal abusers and such.
i do not want to hear what yak has to say. i want to hear dragoneer come clean. i want him to apologize. i want him to explain. i want closure
When you sweep your old journals under the rug, are you censoring yourself... or censoring the rest of us?
Well?
You have nothing to fear from the past, you know... not if you learn from it.
You don't have to be afraid. You can listen to people, and learn from your mistakes.
No one expects you to be anything more than human.
So you don't have to hide any more.
And you sure as hell don't have to hide from us.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:16234074
Sheds more light on how this has been an issue for years.
BETTER TELL HIM HOW AWESOME WE THINK HE IS
What exactly happened? All I can seem to figure out is that FA got hacked, and Dragoneer's notes got leaked. Yet I can't find out for the life of myself what the hell they had in them...could someone please enlighten me to this highschool drama going on?
Then a popular user raped another user and Neer' told the girl to not tell anyone and keep it under her hat.
"Man I only pretend to like it to troll people"
Jesus people make me sick
allll of it
juust fantasy
The site was hacked one-and-a-half-to-two times in a row, something people have been warning him about happening, in between incidents (this has happened before, but without the leaked notes).
Someone leaked 41 user's notes.
Dragoneer made a journal that contained an outright falsehood ("is FA secure? yes!", when the reality of the situation is that they weren't aware of the full extent of the damage.
You can't suffer two hacks in a week's span, then turn around a day later and say "we're secure, yep".
Of course, if you ask anyone else, you'll hear "LEAVE DRAGONEER ALONE!!!! HE'S MY YIFFY PAL!"
Honest, I've had more fun in that journal then anything in a long time and it broke my heart seeing it gone
Actually the other day I wanted to contact you because I want to make you feel better, but I wasnt sure if sending you a message was a good idea. Either way I would like to do something for you to help make you feel better sooner, if you will permit me that is.
So you'll fill in FD_2 first, but not the userbase of FA as to whats going on, as well as censor and sweep under the rug?
That inspires just so much confidence.
I know I can't really do better, but his staff has no idea how to handle this and his refusal to let anyone help is also not a "Great job"
This journal is waaay to easy on him, and no matter what Yak has him say, he's going to be called out on bullshit as damage control won't cut it, honesty is the only thing that will
The site was hacked one-and-a-half-to-two times in a row, something people have been warning him about happening, in between incidents (this has happened before, but without the leaked notes).
Someone leaked 41 user's notes.
Dragoneer made a journal that contained an outright falsehood ("is FA secure? yes!", when the reality of the situation is that they weren't aware of the full extent of the damage.)
You can't suffer two hacks in a week's span, then turn around a day later and say "we're secure, yep".
Of course, if you ask anyone else, you'll hear "LEAVE DRAGONEER ALONE!!!! HE'S MY YIFFY PAL!"
One of the other sides of the story is here: http://forums.vivisector.org/index.php/topic,432.0.html
Does this really warrant 'Neer's defamation? I honestly can't imagine too many sites with higher security than Gawker Media. Besides, a good hacker could probably tear down most defenses thrown up.
My own humble opinion of course.
I've got a feeling that you wouldn't put up with this if it were gmail or AIM that got hacked twice in a row and leaked 41 user's private messages, especially if they've been told about the problems leading up to the hacks, 3 years ago.
This isn't just a case of "nothing is 100% secure". This incident is a case of proactive insecurity, sweeping the security problems under the rug, and generally being lax about security. Of course nothing is 100% secure, that's an easily provable result of basic computer security.
Do you have any idea how stupid that question sounds, by the way? Lemme rephrase this conversation
<pi> I'm angry about the security problems on the site going unfixed for years
<you> WHY DO YOU HATE THE SITE AND WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE???
Kinda glad to see people are waking up here, and I thought I was getting through to him when he changed his journal from "Everything's fine!" to what the actual status was. Then he deleted 'em, swept it under the rug as usual.
When do you plan on fixing whats wrong?
When do you plan on showing even the slightest modicum of credibility?
Maybe you should be talking to them here rather than behind a selective closed door on the outside.
You're under a microscope now. Anything you do in any of the places you go to may be seen in entirety.
Though I shouldn't need to be reminding you of this.
A large amount of users stand at your doorstep. Within your house should only be staff members, not outside communities. Discuss and investigate among the house, then step outside and offer a clear and lengthy explanation.
The hours tick by and the unanswered questions go ignored. All of which are legitimate questions.
I'm pretty sure it's been stated before that anything on FA, deleted or private or otherwise, is accessable by admins/owner. It all should be, anyway.
For me, I think it's not a big deal. You have right to check anything for safety, and the thing you done is just a little mistake that everyone could do, pushing themselves into the other people's business because of they want to help that people until they got a conflict.
I am not the great artist or famous, but I know I like to post art heree, this is my second home where I could make friends or live as a furry.
So I won't leave this place, I will stay here and won't let those hacker or any bad anti-furry guys enjoying by watching us break this community down ourselves.
God Danmit It's gonna be Christmas soon. Why not prepare ourself to celebrate together just like the last year ?