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17 years ago
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1371974/
Will you guys just fucking grow up already?
Seriously. I know a lot of you who have replied to this. You're just encouraging this warrantless harassment by participating in it.
I'm so disappointed to have to KEEP POINTING THIS OUT to you all so that you can know it's going on. It's bullying. I can't imagine what this guy must think of the people on Furaffinity now. I've pointed this kind of behaviour out too many times. It's the worst kind of peer pressure. I want it to stop.
I don't have much to bargain with, but I swear, if I find out that any of you have participated in any harassment dogpile like this one, or any sort of other bullying, I'm unwatching you, removing all of your art from my favs, adding you to my block list on FA, and blocking you on IM. At my own discretion. If you'd rather harass people than be my friend, then you have an easy choice to make. That's all I can really do. I wholly believe in free speech, and people can say what they want to say, but I also believe that being a good, compassionate person requires some self-control and empathy. It's pretty easy to pick on someone when you know nobody will defend them.
I really, really have zero tolerance for bullying.
EDIT: He's taken down all of his submissions. GOOD JOB ASSHOLES. I hope you're all proud of yourselves.
Will you guys just fucking grow up already?
Seriously. I know a lot of you who have replied to this. You're just encouraging this warrantless harassment by participating in it.
I'm so disappointed to have to KEEP POINTING THIS OUT to you all so that you can know it's going on. It's bullying. I can't imagine what this guy must think of the people on Furaffinity now. I've pointed this kind of behaviour out too many times. It's the worst kind of peer pressure. I want it to stop.
I don't have much to bargain with, but I swear, if I find out that any of you have participated in any harassment dogpile like this one, or any sort of other bullying, I'm unwatching you, removing all of your art from my favs, adding you to my block list on FA, and blocking you on IM. At my own discretion. If you'd rather harass people than be my friend, then you have an easy choice to make. That's all I can really do. I wholly believe in free speech, and people can say what they want to say, but I also believe that being a good, compassionate person requires some self-control and empathy. It's pretty easy to pick on someone when you know nobody will defend them.
I really, really have zero tolerance for bullying.
EDIT: He's taken down all of his submissions. GOOD JOB ASSHOLES. I hope you're all proud of yourselves.
You either have too much faith in humanity, or too little.
Take a little time out to cool.
You're overreacting.
I'd never participate in something like that.
Just kidding, I guess some people don't remember what its like to be new at art.
I didn't draw porn for a long time, mostly sticking to usenet and drawing clean stuff... I can't imagine the hell you must get for drawing porn right out of the gate.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/
He must be either a kid, a troll or mentally underdevelloped.
Either way he shouldn't really be actively posting on FA, cause he's to young, an ass, or a magnet for harassment and jokes.
I don't want to blame the victim here. It's too easy to say it's their fault for posting something that other people find appalling. It's not like it's something worth getting angry about, like racism or sexism or bullying or stuff that actually affects people IRL. This is Sonic the Hedgehog characters having sex. Harmless.
Nobody will be hurt if you don't comment with something calloused and rude on a picture you think is funny. Besides, if people think these kinds of pics are so funny... if they're getting so much entertainment out of it... why don't they step back and just let them do their own thing?
He should be actively posting on FA. Anyone who wants to can do it.
that being said, trolling isn't really a great idea, but they're out there. can't avoid that (unless you want to sequester yourself in a totally private part of the net, but even then, that isn't going to work for very long.)
it would be nice if we all could work together, but that's not going to happen and i'm not going to be so naive as to think that we all can get along. that's just not how people are. it's also overly idealistic and a slight bit narcissistic thinking that how i do things is the right way.
this is an art site, that i'm sure we can all agree on, but that's pretty much where the line stops.
and flouncing only really serves to egg trolls and others on.
though, at the end of the day, we all have the freedom to say what's on our mind. we don't have to agree, but at least we are able to express that.
Look, I'll play it for you straight, AGAIN, since you can't read the other replies I've made to other people saying THE EXACT SAME THING YOU ARE: negative comments are one thing. Four dozen people all saying WHUT and making someone leave the site is an entirely other thing. This person didn't just flip out over one measly comment. They literally got harassed into leaving. And here I am taking heat for defending them, like somehow I'm in the wrong for saying that people should maybe hmm I dunno be nice to each other instead of fucking DICKWADS.
Look. I'm passionate about people good human beings, and that passion means I don't give up. I have ample evidence that people are really stupid and rude sometimes, but I know I can't force anyone to change. I'm not naïve, like you so smugly suggest. I have high standards, and the balls to stand up for them, even if it makes me look like a humorless turd, which I'm fully aware I look like right now. And yes, this is serious business, because I hate the attitude that lead to all this trolling. It extends into RL. The calloused, defeated "hate is always going to be around so why fight it" game.
FUCK
THAT
BULLSHIT
MISTER
I do shit about what I believe in even if it's unpopular and even if it gives me a bad rep because that's how strongly I believe in it.
So SORRY FOR BEING ANGRY but goddamn you people, give me a fucking break here, I'm doing the right thing and nobody is seeing that.
yes, in some respect i do have some level of incredulity for the person that was spammed... rather than actually telling the trolls to STFU and actually use the banning/de-voicing functions that come with the site, s/he decided to run. i can understand that, hell, people behave in different reasons but i don't agree with it. i'm of the mind that you should stand up for what you think is right (yes, i know the inherant irony of you being flamed for doing just that, but refer back to the "trolls will still be here" point.)
again, like i said, if someone had something to say about my own stuff, i'd be pretty calm. if it went to the level of trolling, i'd just ban the trolls. if further problems persisted (sockpuppet accounts, drama llamas feasting or whatever) i would make a report to the moderators and administration.
and though this is more a personal belief and less of a judgement but to me, running is cowardice.
and yes, i do agree with you that being trolled sucks, it's sucky like nothing else, but rather than rail against it, stirring up a hornet's nest of drama, i just do what is within my power. hell, read my profile page. i state that drama and fighting is NOT tolerated nor is trolling. it is the power that i have been given by the administration and by the gods i use it.
Sure, Master Account COULD have told the trolls to "STFU" as you so eloquently put it... but dude, are you blind? I did just that. And look what came out of it. Unsatisfied, they come over and try to get a rise out of ME. Not everyone can handle that. I obviously can or I wouldn't have bothered.
I don't get why nobody blames the trolls in these situations. They're solely responsible for everything that happened here. They're responsible for initiating it, they're responsible for keeping it going, and they're responsible for not trying to make ammends after things got out of hand. And they're in total denial to protect their sanity, to keep on believing that they're a good person and what they did was wholly justified. Whatever. Fuck that noise.
Redregon isn't blaming the victim for the trolls happening, he's saying that the victim could've fought against the trolls by banning people..
Trolls won't bug you if you don't let them..
So, all I have left to say is..
WAT?!?!?
Besides, morals are just opinions anyways
I stick by my morals, I don't falter with them, because they're mine, not what someone else tells me to do.
Or is it because I don't think Swatcher needed to get involved?
What are you even TALKING about? "I live by and stick to my own morals instead of pretending and following someone else's." That statement is so pulpy and meaningless that it's comedic. Are you saying that your morals are an entirely original creation? That NO ONE ELSE has morals like you? That the morals you follow are somehow LESS arbitrary than the ones others personally hold? Or are you saying that your code of ethics is in no way influenced by others or your experience in life, in which case you're admitting yourself as a solipsistic sociopath?
The truth is, you don't mean ANY of those things, even though that's what your words are implying. The truth is, you are an idiot. I can say that without hesitation. A self-congratulating airhead with as much legitimacy as wax fruit.
I don't pick morals because they're common, or not... I'm not saying mine are better or worse, but that they're mine.
Frankly, I think you read way too much out of what I said.. I said I stick to my own morals, instead of following someone else's. How exactly did I imply that I thought my morals were completely original? Did I say that I was the only one with them? No? Ok.
Did I say that I thought mine were better then someone else's? I said that I don't follow morals I don't believe in for myself. Morals that you follow because you really believe them are better than morals that you follow because you're told to. That doesn't mean that everyone else's morals are all lies. That means that some people follow morals they don't really believe in, just to fit into society. That doesn't mean that your morals are inferior to mine. I don't know if you follow blindly what someone else tells you. I don't know you, and I don't presume to.
Did I say that my experiences in life and people don't effect me? They do. But, I don't blindly follow what others say. If I meet someone and I get to know them, and they have different points of view, they may effect me. I compile everything I've experienced and decide upon what I believe is right. Sometimes my morals change, it's called growing.
What I'm getting at is that I'm not just a member of the herd doing and believing what I'm told to do and believe.
What my words are implying is what you want them to. I mean what I say, and I say exactly what I mean, the morals that I follow are my own, not what someone else tells me to believe. If I thought mine were better than everyone else's, or that I'm the only one with them, I'd have said just that.
The question? "Why don't people blame the trolls in these situations?"
Well, here's what I think. People don't think of trolls as human beings. They don't consider that they have understanding and free will and that they're choosing to do this. Instead, they think of them like alligators. If you put your hand in an alligator cage, the alligator will probably bite it off, and everybody will blame you for putting your hand in an alligator cage.
It's not a good thing at all, but it at least explains what is going on, I think. Does that make sense?
And because of those, everybody posting anything on the internet anywhere whith the possibility of comments, must be ready to take the shitstorm of those, that are out for nothing but "the lulz".
So the kid, learns that bitter lesson, the troll...is satisfied and the mentally underdevelloped will be really hurt. I only feel sad for the last two.
I'm not preventing anyone from hating. People think I am! But I'm not. I'm just saying... if you wanna be a jerk, then any association I have with you is the price you gotta pay. It's not much at all.
Also old.
YAWN
Also truth
If the faces showing up here are a good representation of the faces that had been in on the usual gang-rape dogpile, then the majority of them have received warnings before, and have all stuck to the same defenses you see here: that they're just having fun; the internet isn't RL; that it's the victim's fault for being who they are instead of being like them; freedom of speech means nobody can have standards of respectable conduct; etc, etc. Words of correction do nothing >because< they don't see this behavior as malice, nor do they understand that IRL or OL does not change the fact that you are communicating with a living feeling human being and NOT just gunning down artificial fodder in some fantasy game.
Even if it isn't intended malice, there comes a point where simple lack of personal restraint, compassion, or empathy, is no different than malice. In some ways, it could be considered worse. A person who understands that certain behaviors are hurtful, and only does them when they want to cause harm, can potentially be worked with somehow. A person who simply is genuinely incapable of realizing that what they're doing is hurtful has a LOT more wrong with them.
There's a word for these people. All of them.
Sociopaths.
http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
That's the very first thing that comes up when you google the word, so it's not like I took any time to find a definition that fit my needs. And the people that Swatcher is complaining about, the people who are >always< there whenever something happens on FA involving somebody getting severely mistreated just for trying to express themselves without causing anyone else any harm, the people who you will most often see defending this garbage, all fit most articles of the profile. Not all sociopaths are serial killers. Some are just life-long raging douchebags to everyone who doesn't fall in line behind them.
The problem isn't those of us who might be reading too much into these behaviors. The problem is everyone acting like this crap is no big deal, and the feelings of those subjected to this are less relevant than the ones of the people making other members of the community feel like shit just for being themselves. If people reacting to this stuff is a problem, then the simple and easy solution is to take SOME measure of action to restrict the hurtful, >hateful<, and downright loathsome behavior that causes these reactions.
If trolling people like Rouge gets a pass as simple 'natural human response' then why the hell doesn't that apply to the just as natural >yet socially more desirable< response of those who feel that it is wrong for a group of people to ridicule a stranger doing them no harm to the point of exile?
I know you're just offering a point of view, man, but really, of all the viewpoints there are with this stuff, is Swatcher's the one that most needs to be getting words to consider changing?
But, I have it IRL and on the interwebz..
Of course, there isn't any malice to be had if ppl don't get upset over it..
Like when the kid gets teased in school, if it really didn't bother the kid, the bullies would walk away..
If the person getting trolled reacts the right way, the troll loses it's fun..
But, it becomes so much juicier when someone that wasn't originally getting trolled reacts, and then causes even more lulz..
Idiots
Those who trolled the person are responsible, I'm just saying that the "victim" could've done more to prevent it. Could've not abandoned the account, could've not reacted (well, I never got to read the original, so I don't know if he did) and Swatcher could've not reacted as well
I've reacted in the past so this is nothing new for me. I point bullshit out all the time because I want people to see the pattern, and hopefully question whether or not they're doing the right thing by contributing to these so-called harmless flashmobs. That's all. I think it's wrong, and I'm out to prove that point. My agenda's right out on the table.
Good for them that they didn't react...
Well, on the internet, in this day and age, you DO have to be able to handle the "flashmob" as you put it. Right or wrong, that's the way it is nowadays
Trolls don't bother me, everytime I've had someone try, I just laugh it off. So, I don't personally have a problem with trolls, and never will.
Just call me neutral, because that's what I am
Am I correct in thinking that what you want is for others to realize that harassing people is wrong? Or that the average person shouldn't join in with the trolls?
Regardless of which of the infinite possible viewpoint we're looking at though, eventually, there's a line to cross where we need to determine and acknowledge that not all viewpoints are equal. You can justify just about anything if you look through the right viewpoint, and this is a trap I'm all too familiar with. But we do come to a point where we have to pick a viewpoint to take action from. And discussing alternative viewpoints simply to point out alternate ways to look at a situation, doing it just for the sake of doing it, can be an endless distraction from any notion of actually acting to resolve a situation. And that is often the reason for inaction or insufficient/excessively slow action from the administration.
Sometimes, even if you might not be looking from the most balanced viewpoint, you need to act to at least >try< to resolve a situation. If you refuse to take action until you think you have THE most perfect, flawless, and equally balanced viewpoint available, you will never be free to act. Because that's what the problem people are good at: presenting an alternative viewpoint that makes their completely unacceptable behavior seem somewhat justified. Which then shifts your acting viewpoint to be more desirable to their needs. And call me crazy, but when you have a conflict between an individual who is repeatedly and persistently a CAUSE of the problems, and an individual who is only a problem when others instigate one, I feel the needs of the problem-causers should come well behind the needs of people who are just trying to be here peacefully and do what the site was meant to allow them to do.
I know you know a lot of this already, but I guess this is more just me expressing my reasonings here for anyone who's following this and might not know me that well.
I guess it's hard for me to accept that yeah, people are okay with being cynical, and have come to terms with the fact that they can't change anything. I understand that point of view, but man is it ever toxic. It would save me a lot of headaches if I just sat back because the trolls are here and there's nothing I can do about it.
It's that the people who CAN do something about it WON'T.
The problem is that the key difference between the community now, versus what it used to be, is that now there is an authority structure.
Furnation used to be one of the hubs of the furry community, along with some mucks, irc, and newsgroups. As far as I can tell, any of those hubs that had an administration or authority structure would actually stifle harassment and trolling with warnings, suspensions, and actual bans. Trolling was and always will be a problem online, you can't ever completely eradicate it, that's all true. But it wasn't AS MUCH of a problem because at least an effort was being made to keep it to a minimum.
FA doesn't do that. Verbal warnings are handed out, and those work remarkably well for those who aren't really part of the main problem. People who just act out in a way that is just human nature and natural reaction tend to be quite cooperative when presented with how their reaction was inappropriate, and a request to not repeat the behavior. Most people understand that this is both a community, and a private website, and as such, has to maintain certain rules of behavior and conduct in order to remain enjoyable and hospitable to everyone.
But for the relatively tiny portion of the community that actually cause these problems (once you've watched these flashmobs for a while, you get to recognize a very specific short-list of names who are nearly always involved, several of which are here on your journal), verbal warnings do nothing but cause them to react trying to justify their actions and villify anyone trying to encourage better behavior from them. FA then talks down to its own admins and community members who manage to invoke such a reaction from these people, using the same argument the problem-causers use: "if you didn't get them riled up, there wouldn't have been a problem/it's your fault for provoking them/just ignore what they do, and it won't be so bad/etc."
Suspensions are met with ban evasions and ban evasions are met with either more suspensions, or no response at all, depending on the individual's capacity for inciting more mob shenanigans.
To actually earn a ban, a user has to have caused so much grief as to have already gone well beyond what should be tolerated in a community, earned infamy for it, AND they need to be someone without a support base. THAT is one of my biggest gripes with the leadership of this site: A person who causes excessive trouble, but is largely operating alone, may eventually earn a ban. But people who cause significantly more trouble, with more specific intent to do so, will not ever be banned so long as they have enough of a support group of fellow troublemakers to pitch a stink if any action is taken against any part of the group.
The problem with the community here on fur affinity is NOT really a problem with the community of people who are here for what the site had been intended by its creator (by his own words) to be. People who come here to post and share and interact with others who share a common interest manage to do so with minimal problems and conflict beyond simple natural human friction. The problem here is that the leadership of the site not only condones, but actively stifles any attempted discouragement of the behavior from a splinter community of people who are here primarily or solely for the purpose of inciting hostility, upset, conflict, and strife, all for the drama and lulz of it all, for their own personal amusement.
The leadership of this site is at fault for the problems you're speaking against. Not because they are doing it themselves, but because they DO have the ability to greatly reduce the problem, but refuse to do so. Users can't do anything about it other than silently take it. I had joined the administration to try and help the problem. But every time I got involved in suppressing this sort of behavior, you could bet that the greater a positive, thankful, and appreciative response I got from users NOT part o >causing< THE problems, the more finger-wagging and lecturing I got from site leadership. They don't listen to the peaceful and cooperative members of the community half as much as they listen to the ones causing the problems.
A good portion of those causing problems are only doing so BECAUSE they were ignored or dismissed when they weren't causing problems, and only found their voices to hold weight after they lashed out in retaliation.
Eh, sorry for the essay, but I really really hate seeing someone such as yourself talking about giving up. Because that's why this has become such a problem. The lack of action from those who CAN change things, but don't, eventually instills a sense of futility in those who WOULD change things, but can't.
Why?
i really don't think everyone involved was actively trying to be an asshole. I think it was more a case of just following along with what everyone else was doing. it doesn't make them right, but yeah.
Thanks for your comment. :)
\"wat\"
what was the point of that
It’s true, societies code of ethics on proper behavior towards other people are…loose at best, but with angst towards those who have acted in a way you feel inappropriate, you also have to consider THEIR side of things. The kind of subject matter this persons art continually features, however permissible upon this site, can be considered offensive to the point of repulsing folks. It’s one thing when patrons of this art hub illustrate their own characters doing things even a backdoor slut would find sickening, but an ENTIRELY different one when they take cherished and loved characters and pervert the hell out of them.
I used to love the chaotix, now I can’t look at my old Archie comics from the 90’s featuring them without seeing crudely drawn genetalia. I get that these are ‘requests’, but this person always had the option the refuse them and possibly focus his attention on improving his ‘talents’. No offense but the bulk of what I see appears just to be straight-line characters filled with color gradients in mspaint…It’s understandable if this person dominate hand is crippled or something, but otherwise COME ON.
Does that justify people spamming and ridiculing his work? Perhaps not, but you’ve got to be prepared that such crude imagery will not be immediately accepted, especially given its content. As expressed earlier, just because this site allows such stuff, does not equate people being comfortable with it.
Does warrant a posting of ‘if you’ve nothing nice to say, don’t say anything at all’, but you could respond to that with ‘if you’ve nothing ‘tasteful’ to draw, keep your pencil in your pants.’
…though admittedly with the kind of stuff I’ve seen lately, the concept of savory art has gone down the same toilet I saw ‘shadow’ pissing in.
By the same token, you're on a site featuring a lot of porn based on cartoon and video game characters. You should be prepared to find someone drawing pornographic pictures of ALL qualities, rather than acting all shocked and defensive. Quit blaming the victim here.
It's an old mantra... if you don't like it, don't look at it. If adult material shocks you, turn on the filter that blocks adult art. Easy as that. There would be so much less pain and suffering in this community if people would just learn to turn off adult art.
Anyone that doesn't agree with you is blaming the victim..
He's just not necessarily blaming the others. It's called neutral, dumbass
‘I can’t draw anatomy right nor do I know what male or female genetalia even looks like, so I’ll just slap it on a poorly drawn sonic char and nobody’ll know the difference!’
…yea *coughs* some people do notice here.
The only thing I’m shocked by is the serious lack or time and care put into the shit people slap up on this site. It’s pitiful the way people spend a total of 2 minutes into a piece of work and clog up this site with crap like the whole fucking site is a toilet in a Denny’s restaurant. I mean, seriously I could go into a whole bloody rant about stuff that pisses me off here, but I won’t.
If he wants to be taken seriously, tell him to take his art seriously, practice from real life, I can’t stress that enough. This person needs to learn that, and in all honestly you seem more perturbed by people not receiving his laughable submissions well then he does. You’re not going to be taken serious drawing rectangle characters with asinine captions above their heads that was pissed out in paintshop in under 5 minutes…I shouldn’t even have to say that.
Yea we all have to start out someplace, but how we choose to start, and what we choose to show the community is what eventually defines us. I don’t make these rules and I’m not any happier about them, but it’s how it works…what this person needs to do is spend some serious time offline defining and mastering what he ‘draws’, and then come back with something halfway decent.
Or, he could just keep doing what he’s doing and people will eventually grow bored of him and move onto to someone else for the lulz.
I don't think he's interested in being "taken seriously", but getting spammed was what he was interested in either. Hell, I don't think the majority of people who get spammed or trolled or bullied believe that they'd ever get picked up out of the randomness. There's a lot of stuff posted to wtf_fa after all.
Now... do you draw, personally? I'm assuming you do, but don't post for whatever reason. I mean, you're gallery's a blank slate, and I'm not even going to venture a guess as to why. But I am interested in your reasons. Is it because of what you've said here? Or something else?
not to mention that this is furaffinity, you are pretty much guaranteed to see things that repulse you. why are you still here if it bothers you so much?
fixed it for you, dumbass.
I love the fact that I'm a dumbass now for sticking up for someone. That's just rich.
Well, as the person who made the original post to WTF_FA that started this whole thing, I guess I need to say something here. It wasn't my intention for people to go and spam the comments. I wasn't making fun of the quality of the drawing or the fact that it was Sonic porn. I just thought the narration ("I'M CUMMING INSIDE YOUR VAGINA, VECTOR") was hilarious and awesome. I don't think the WAT onslaught was justified, but, seriously, if you don't want to risk people reacting negatively or obnoxiously to your work, don't post it on the internet.
In all honesty I thought the guy was a troll.
I can't stand for that "if you don't want negative feedback, don't post it" schtick, it's just blaming the victim, who did nothing wrong than to share his sexuality in a way that other people found ridiculous. Negative feedback is one thing... this wasn't negative feedback, and at this point, I find it really hard to believe that it wasn't harassment, even if it was unintentional harassment.
I hope you reconsider your habit of posting to wtf_fa, too! That place is really not condusive to a very friendly community. :(
The notion that granting one person the ability to not HAVE to hear what someone else has to say is somehow limiting the other person's freedom of speech is a prevalent one around here. Freedom of speech gets painted as meaning that if anyone has anything to say, then everyone they wish to say it to HAS to be made to hear it.
Last I heard, there >was< talk of implementing a user-controlled comment delete/hide feature, but more for the purpose of removing a need for admins to get involved because the trolling HAS reached a point where the administration recognizes that something needs to be done (something besides simply removing users who are here for apparently little other reason than to instigate and inflame such drama), and less for any concern of simply making the site more enjoyable for users who don't find random hateful abuse of total strangers to be amusing. Though with a disappointing consistency, requests for features that would greatly lighten both the admin workload AND factors that are breeding grounds for drama and hostility like this have always taken back seat to other "more important" things, like changing the layout of the submissions page. >If< it ever does get implemented, you can expect a wave of outrage from the sociopaths of the community when they realize they've been effectively neutered and can no longer impose their opinions and hostility on people who have done nothing to deserve it. And, again, with a disappointing consistency, the complaints of those people have been taken as more valid by the top brass of the site than the complaints of people such as you or I who think it would be nice to have a community site where people who don't actively cause others upset are NOT simply told 'swim at your own risk.'
Also, wat
I don't have much to bargain with, but I swear, if I find out that any of you have participated in any harassment dogpile like this one, or any sort of other bullying, I'm unwatching you, removing all of your art from my favs, adding you to my block list on FA, and blocking you on IM.
MOAR SERIOUS BUSINESS. Wash the sand from your vagina and quit being a bitch.
oh hay i herd candlejack is around
Yeah, I posted the first "wat" comment in a way that I often do on a ton of people's pages, on a lot of websites. I get different responses from everyone. They're very rarely negative. It's not "trolling" at all -- I wasn't aiming to hurt the person's feelings, and I didn't insult the person or their art, even though I thought it was horrible and jointly thought that a person of that age/mental capacity should not be on a website centered on the exchange of pornographic art. If they took what happened to be insulting, rather than strange, unusual, surreal, odd, etc... that is entirely their issue. Likewise, if any onlookers feel the same way, then they're reading too much into the situation, and acting paranoid and self-deprecating to boot.
There's no reason to react like this, but whatever. If this is how you are, then this is how you are. I'll miss your art and stories, but I won't lose any sleep over it. Too bad you had to take something silly and funny and turn it into a shitstorm.
talked to the guy over AIM, and it was meerily a way to see if people didn't go FUCK YOU CAN'T YOU TAKE A BIT OF LULZ at him, on which Agouti and Sonderjen had the correct attitude since there were quite some people on the shitpile that would be really silly of him to unawtch so it was more of a putting foot down type situation
however people instead acted retarded and went GOD YOU ARE SO UNLULZY, CAN'T YOU TAKE A JOOKE?!?!!! which was something he really didn't want to see
Reading too much into... What the hell are you talking about? I'm calling it EXACTLY as I saw it. A bunch of calloused posters innocently ganging up on someone who had JUST started drawing and posting to the site. These posters were showing off how strong and well-connected they are right in the person's face and showing that we do not like your kind here. They might not have WANTED to be mean. They might have thought he was a troll and therefore it was "ok". They might have gotten a laugh out of it, so therefore it all balances out in the end, somehow. And I keep hearing over and over "well he shouldn't have been posting on the internet if he was THAT bad" and well you got your wish and I hope you're proud.
So go ahead and feel anything but remorse at having ganged up on a guy who, for all we know, might be developmentally disabled. I'm SHOCKED that what I thought was a tight-knit, friendly community is this calloused and prone to bullying. I'm not asking for much, I'm just asking for someone to see this from my point of view.
When I say "reading too much into things", I'm referring directly to what you're saying here: --"...they don't understand you, that you're not even worth the time it takes to type a full sentence, that you "fail"." Who ever said anything like that? How can you pull that much out of a three-letter nonsense word?! You go on to do the same thing over and over again, here-- "We do not like your kind here." Uh, pardon the irony, but WAT? Furaffinity, not liking genderbent herm sonic fancharacter porn? Are you serious?! That's what this website was MADE for!
"I keep hearing over and over "well he shouldn't have been posting on the internet if he was THAT bad" and well you got your wish and I hope you're proud." Hey, that was never my wish at all. I don't give half of a shit who posts on the internet. Just like I do, and you do, by posting things on a public forum online, they are opening themselves up to connect with millions of people. I dislike a -great- deal of the things that I see on Furaffinity nowadays. That doesn't mean at all that I think they shouldn't be there. Everyone has just as much of a right to be here whether the other people like it or not.
"So go ahead and feel anything but remorse at having ganged up on a guy who, for all we know, might be developmentally disabled." ....You're really, legitimately saying that? It isn't a valid argument at all. I guess nobody should bother trying to correct any spelling or grammar errors, or misprints in newspapers, too, because "the author might have been ~DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED~ and we didn't know!!!". Honestly, come on, that doesn't make any sense.
"I'm SHOCKED that what I thought was a tight-knit, friendly community is this calloused and prone to bullying." You're really shocked that the internet contains human beings, then? Everyone in the world isn't a happy clockwork toy, who do only what your ideal of "right" is, nor is everyone a soft and fluffy snuggly bunny who doesn't experience any emotion or drive other than "let's cuddle and yiff". The internet, and more specifically the furry fandom, and even MORE specifically the Furaffinity community are made up of tons of people from every walk of life, every race, every belief system, every different moral scale, every different sense of humor... etc, etc. I'm amazed that you expect one particular corner of the internet that you've settled in to all be exactly the same as you. Just because you're sitting under an umbrella term doesn't mean that everyone else with you is the same person.
And in regards to the "friendly, tight-knit community" line in reference to furaffinity? This website is a cliquish, fad-driven group of people with a pack mentality, all striving to get to the top. There are some diamonds in the rough, of course, but as a whole, it's not exactly as "friendly" from the outside looking (or attempting to come) in. People who are joining and making new accounts and an attempt to 'break onto the scene', so to speak. should be ready for anything and everything the community entails. If they're open minded and can laugh about goofy things and shrug off the torrents of drama that crop up, then they'll most likely stick around long enough to make some friends, fall into a social circle, and enjoy themselves. If they're too frail to understand that people are people, and will react differently to different things, then not only are they not going to survive in the community that this website holds, but they're obviously not going to survive in real life either.
I mean just the editor comparsion is really sketchy here if you think of it, and I think you are having here a really messed up concept of how much \"skin\" people have towards offenses.
As far as the concept of "skin" goes, I don't know. Maybe I'm misaligned because I'm used to getting harsh criticism and sharp jokes day in and day out without them damaging me too much, and therefore can't compare my "tough skin" to other people... but it really seems like a lot of furries nowadays just plain can't take anything at all. It absolutely HAS to be nothing but fluffy cuddles and warm hugs directed towards them, or else they crumble. When did people start being this way?
If you honestly think that the general animal people consensus comes from Swatcher or that guy, then look at the people who jerk off Tirrel, to Dave Kelly's works, to WTF_FA, to lulz.net, to Encyclopedia Dramatica and so on and so on. Lotsa more people are on the "ANYONE WHO FLINCHES AT BAD WORDS IS A FAGGOT"
I seriously think you should think through this or rest,
There is a lot of positivity yes, but people do go a bit apeshit on the criticism. And not just on LMAO FURFAGGOTS field, on other camps as well.
A lot of people do make this mistake and don't seem to realise it, and they do it the minute they spot too many a circlejerk
not to mention that I'm starting to notice that the people who do this are starting to have a persecution complex as well.
christ foor someone who tells everyone on how to have patience with criticism you have the skin of like a goddamn third degree burn victim
It's like a whirlpool and everyone's getting sucked into the middle of everything ever.
and I don't like so because I really like her output and otherwise she's cool
Amen. People tend to find a certain group of people and plant themselves in a particular spot. Firmly. Those pocket groups can get pretty tightly knit, but FA is more of a confederation of aberrant behaviors, fetishes, perverts, jerks and a very small amount of decent folk who still have their own oddities and kinks.
I wish the cliques would stop causing trouble for each other, for instance, and that's not an empty wish either. I'm obviously no good at it, but I want to encourage people to think about who they're bashing and why. There's always going to be someone out there who doesn't care who gets hurt, but my hope is that by standing firm on friendliness, empathy, and compassion, more people might feel more inclined to see things from the other person's perspective.
I wish FA was a more tight-knit community of aberrant behaviors, fetishes, perverts, jerks and decent folk. I don't want anything else than for people to keep their own behavior in check. That's not something I can change, but that's something THEY can change, and all I can do is hope they'll do it and throw out rather pathetic ultimatums.
I still think what happened was wrong, but man I aughta give people more of a chance. People were convinced the dude was a troll, and were responding in theme. Understood.
I'm being a pretty huge jerk here myself.
I still think it was the commenters' responsibility for preventing things from getting as far as they did, as well as seeing it from the point of view that perhaps this person wasn't a troll.
I also think that blaming the victim and not the instigators (in this case there were many many many) is kind of nauseating.
I also think that a lot of people have been taking my opposition to all this really, really personally. And I'm wholly at fault for that, even though I didn't mean it, and I'm really, deeply sorry. I wasn't thinking about how my words would look when they got out, or how they'd be construed. Which is the very same thing I'm criticizing. It doesn't do justice to what I believe in.
Really. Shit.
niiku ftw ^_^
What on Earth happened in here?
...Well, at least now you've got something to refer back to when you're trying to describe an extreme amount of shit. That's, uh. That's something, right?
Real trolls post comments on pages that don't offend them, just to get a rise out of someone... real trolls actually mean it, anyone that really believed sonic porn man was a troll isn't a troll themselves...
In fact, I'm not so sure he wasn't a troll, I've seen some VERY convincing trolls, like, people that spent months setting up several accounts.. or took a real persons' posts on a site, stole their online persona to use on another site as a troll
Real trolls would post things completely out of line to get a rise. Any of the "wat" posters who thought MasterAccount was a troll, aren't trolls themselves, as they were only following an apparent trend.
Faith thinks MasterAccount was actually a troll (see: double negative, "not sure he wasn't"), and that it's entirely possible that he made the account way back and stocked up on favorites for art relevant to "his" interests before posting art to add to the pile. Faith bases this thought on trolls he's seen in the past who do exactly that.
Deciphered? :V
Ever.
Internet blows so much out of proportion!
The administration is not allowed to take firm action against this behavior. Tell a troll to stop and they react like a spoiled child when you try to explain that it's wrong for them to break someone else's toy. Try to suspend them, and they make evasion accounts to continue pointing out how they are simply exercising their free speech and how you are stifling the growth of society by not letting them be an abusive prick to a total stranger. Ban them, and they make evasion accounts until you unban their primary.
If an admin tries to enforce any kind of standards of respectable behavior, and the people causing all this drama make a stink about being told to not be douchebags, the admin gets lectured for handling a situation poorly. Any response to a person causing trouble that does not result in the person >causing< the trouble being happy with the response they received, is deemed handling the situation poorly.
Try being a cop that gets a lecture or a write-up whenever the criminals aren't happy with you.
Then imagine what kind of community you're going to have when that is the case. FA's becoming more and more a good example of the likely product of such a situation.
I also hope every one of you feel better tomorrow. Robocoon, get a haircut.
Unwatched.
"Few attacks of either ridicule or invective, make much noise but by the help of those they provoke."
(B. Johnson)
This just.. ugh. ugh. The actor/observer difference totally gets the blinders with shit like this. It's just awful. "You're saying this thing, that you're saying people should respect other people, you're a dick. But when I say the exact same thing and it applies to me doing it for the lulz, I'm correct. So suck it up, and get a thicker skin/sense of humor/be more open-minded/whatever code word for 'you're supposed to let me make fun of you' I want to use."
It always seems like it's just too much to ask people to not run around pushing people's buttons.
What's most baffling about this is the degree to which people are denying their culpability in these sorts of scenarios.
The logic goes: it's awful, but it was inevitable that it would happen, so it doesn't really matter if I participate in it, since it was going to happen whether I participated in it or not, and what we did wasn't even that extreme, and they should have seen it coming and prepared for it, and they overreacted, so it was funny, and they were upset and they should have had a thicker skin or not posted at all.
My own take on it is: it's awful, it may be inevitable, but it's your own personal choice to participate in it, and your choice reflects upon you as a person. It seems to me the choice between earnest compassion and thoughtless bullying should be an easy one. That's what you'd think!
Accountability is really funny like that.