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Prop 8 blitz GO!
17 years ago
So I'm sure most of the folks who will see this have already seen the No on California Prop 8 piece I did, and now 
tann has made a similar piece as well.
The more exposure this message gets, the better! I want to formally ask anyone and everyone to make a post promoting awareness for this cause. If you don't draw, make a journal entry! If you're not confident with words, you can just modify this basic info:
=======================================
California Proposition 8 is a ballot initiative in the upcoming November 4th election that will strip the rights of same-sex couples to marry. Same-sex marriage has been legal in California since July -- this proposition, if it passes, will amend the California state constitution to include the phrase, "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."
Same-sex couples are just a simple majority vote (ie, 50% of votes) away from losing their right to marry the person they love. I urge everyone who is able to get to the voting booths this November and protect gays' and lesbians' equality by voting NO on Proposition 8.
What happens in California this November will be a powerful precedent one way or the other, and folks all over the country and beyond will feel the decision's results. If you're not able to cast your vote against Prop 8 this November, you can donate time or money to any number of advocacy groups that are helping to fight it.
Tell your friends and loved ones to please join us all in voting NO on Prop 8 this November!
=======================================
Someone just messaged me asking what a good way to tell other people about Proposition 8 is without outing yourself! This is a very good question, so I figured I'd post my response here. In it, I mention one of several possible tactics:
"My friend [insert female name here]'s brother is gay, and he lives in California, and she's been telling me about this Proposition 8 thing you guys have out there. She says it's going to take away her brother's right to get married if it passes, and that he's really worried that it might.
I don't think anyone should have the right to tell another person they can't get married just because of the gender of the person they love, so I know I would vote no on proposition 8. Are you guys planning to vote no on 8, too? The objections I see people raising on the internet, like about protecting kids at school, seem important, but the California Superintendent of Schools has said that the law won't change the state's education system at all.
All of the major newspapers in the state have said it's an unfair law, and even big corporations like Mac and Google have openly said they're against it. I know [friend's name] says she just wants her brother to be happy, and to get the same rights that she has, and that makes a lot of sense to me. I hope you guys will vote no, for my friend's brother's sake, and because I think it's the right thing to do. Thanks, guys!"
And then if they're like, "well, actually, we're voting yes because of X, Y, and Z reason, you can address that on a fact-by-fact basis. There's a lot of good information available at www.noonprop8.com. If you don't think they would respond well to an advocacy site, then you can at least use it as a resource yourself to know what some of the arguments being made by the yes on 8 campaign are, and how to address them. Best of luck, and feel free to ask if you have any questions at all!
=======================================
I'll keep this journal entry on top until the election, and update it with links to every post that you guys make -- just reply here with the URL <3
Thanks, guys!
=======================================
tann's painting and journal entry
redarmyzombie's journal entry and post-vote journal
leftcross's LiveJournal post
fabercastel's journal entry
bearsculptor's first and second image, his journal entry, and his husband,
dinrael's image
f27's journal entry
dragoneer's journal entry
darhan's journal entry
kyell's journal entry
bloodhound's image
gingham's drawing and colored piece
rainbowdog's drawing
teko's image macro
tann has made a similar piece as well.The more exposure this message gets, the better! I want to formally ask anyone and everyone to make a post promoting awareness for this cause. If you don't draw, make a journal entry! If you're not confident with words, you can just modify this basic info:
=======================================
California Proposition 8 is a ballot initiative in the upcoming November 4th election that will strip the rights of same-sex couples to marry. Same-sex marriage has been legal in California since July -- this proposition, if it passes, will amend the California state constitution to include the phrase, "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."
Same-sex couples are just a simple majority vote (ie, 50% of votes) away from losing their right to marry the person they love. I urge everyone who is able to get to the voting booths this November and protect gays' and lesbians' equality by voting NO on Proposition 8.
What happens in California this November will be a powerful precedent one way or the other, and folks all over the country and beyond will feel the decision's results. If you're not able to cast your vote against Prop 8 this November, you can donate time or money to any number of advocacy groups that are helping to fight it.
Tell your friends and loved ones to please join us all in voting NO on Prop 8 this November!
=======================================
Someone just messaged me asking what a good way to tell other people about Proposition 8 is without outing yourself! This is a very good question, so I figured I'd post my response here. In it, I mention one of several possible tactics:
"My friend [insert female name here]'s brother is gay, and he lives in California, and she's been telling me about this Proposition 8 thing you guys have out there. She says it's going to take away her brother's right to get married if it passes, and that he's really worried that it might.
I don't think anyone should have the right to tell another person they can't get married just because of the gender of the person they love, so I know I would vote no on proposition 8. Are you guys planning to vote no on 8, too? The objections I see people raising on the internet, like about protecting kids at school, seem important, but the California Superintendent of Schools has said that the law won't change the state's education system at all.
All of the major newspapers in the state have said it's an unfair law, and even big corporations like Mac and Google have openly said they're against it. I know [friend's name] says she just wants her brother to be happy, and to get the same rights that she has, and that makes a lot of sense to me. I hope you guys will vote no, for my friend's brother's sake, and because I think it's the right thing to do. Thanks, guys!"
And then if they're like, "well, actually, we're voting yes because of X, Y, and Z reason, you can address that on a fact-by-fact basis. There's a lot of good information available at www.noonprop8.com. If you don't think they would respond well to an advocacy site, then you can at least use it as a resource yourself to know what some of the arguments being made by the yes on 8 campaign are, and how to address them. Best of luck, and feel free to ask if you have any questions at all!
=======================================
I'll keep this journal entry on top until the election, and update it with links to every post that you guys make -- just reply here with the URL <3
Thanks, guys!
=======================================
tann's painting and journal entry
redarmyzombie's journal entry and post-vote journal
leftcross's LiveJournal post
fabercastel's journal entry
bearsculptor's first and second image, his journal entry, and his husband,
dinrael's image
f27's journal entry
dragoneer's journal entry
darhan's journal entry
kyell's journal entry
bloodhound's image
gingham's drawing and colored piece
rainbowdog's drawing
teko's image macro
But if they're silly like half of the US and use those electronic things, wouldn't it be quite easy to try to alter some of the boxes to, at the very least, rickroll anyone who votes yes?
I do like the image of my local voting station blaring out ♪NEVER GONNA GIVE, NEVER GONNA GIVE~♪ though, so kudos for that.
But yes, by and large, paper ballots offer way more accountability and reliability. Let's not get lazy here.
That's also a great safeguard against counterfitting, since this ID could be issued separately. Since each ID is registered to a voter and doesn't come with the ballot, we don't have to worry about someone intercepting the ballots or making fakes.
I thought about throwing a rock through it, but we all know fags can't throw. NOTHING COULD BE DONE.
Sigh. Sometimes being mature sucks. Eeevery so often, I feel like stepping off the high road <3
i just want to know whats going on in their heads to feel so strongly against something like gay marriage
or maybe i dont
I think if this thing is going to happen, it's going to take a lot of people like you <3
There will be people working there to walk you through each step and answer any questions you may have, or if you want more detail, I can scrounge up some other resources for you.
This is super important, and it's awesome that you're voting -- harass all your friends and family into doing so as well!
but this kind of thing just terrifies me. that people actually want this passed..... just knowing that degree of tunnel-vision exists baffles me, & so i've discovered burbank is actually quite conservative. frighteningly so. i've been seeing an alarming amount of yes on 8 signs.
i'll do my best in writing. just wouldn't know what to draw...
ALWAYS good to get the word out when concerning issues such as this.
also... just wrote a little something.
not much, just a few words for the sake of awareness (:
Obama: Seperate But Equal
McCain, I can't find the video for, I'm sorry, but he said that he felt it was a state's right. I agree with him on that, and have been saying the same thing since before I knew that's where he stood on it.
Obama-Biden do support civil unions as opposed to marriage, but they would never countermand a state's decision to allow same-sex marriage. McCain, as far as I know, has not spoken on that issue. Palin has explicitly stated that she would like a United States Constitutional Amendment banning gay marriage from the entire country.
If your intention was to suggest that an Obama-Biden administration would be less willing to give equal rights to gays than a McCain-Palin one, I think that is almost assuredly incorrect. If I've misread your implication, please set me straight! Thanks ^_^
McCain supports state's rights, and supports the current "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy in the military. Without it, gays could easily be discriminated against. He has also said that he would not be against having a gay president. Really, the thing I like about McCain's policy is that he seems to think that sexual orientation has little to do with anything else. And I would agree.
And another point, as well, is that no matter what goes for marriage laws, there will be people who take offense to gays. No legislation will outlaw gay bashers. Obama is against gays, and anyone, for that matter, owning handguns.
I also disagree that Don't Ask, Don't Tell serves to protect gays from discrimination when it in and of itself is a discriminatory policy. There have been multiple instances when physicians within the armed forces have, in the course of treating someone, been forced to ask what sexual activity that patient has engaged in. Obviously, with their health at stake, the patient isn't going to lie to the doctor. When they've disclosed that they have had same-sex intercourse, the doctors have been compelled by Don't Ask, Don't Tell to violate patient-doctor privilege and report the soldiers' activities to their commanding officer. All soldiers in these cases have been discharged dishonorably from the services.
I believe that it is the role and responsibility of every officer in the forces to maintain order and discipline within their unit. If the fact that one soldier in the unit is gay is the cause of some issue and discrimination happens, the responsibility should lie with the commanding officer and with the person performing the discrimination, not with the target of the discrimination. Don't Ask, Don't Tell, in that case, is like proposing a solution to domestic violence where women are enjoined not to talk back. It suggests that the victims are the ones responsible for the crime, and places the burden of avoiding it on them, which I think most people would agree is unfair.
I'll certainly concede that legalizing gay marriage won't end discrimination against gays, but surely we can agree that it's a good thing and a step in the right direction. Technically, the entire body of hate crime and violent crime law already outlaws gay bashing, so I'm not sure I completely understand you there, but I certainly follow that you're saying that we have a long way to go before everyone will accept homosexuality.
I feel like the handgun issue is a bit of a departure here, and I would like to at least keep this discussion somewhat on-topic, but I certainly don't get the feeling that Obama is "against" anyone. His stated policies and his professional track record both in public office and out has shown a commitment, I think, to bilateral cooperation and inclusiveness. I think that Obama would be a very good choice as a candidate who can help to ease the polemic nature of American politics today and bring the country together to focus on the issues at hand.
As far as "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" goes, it might be discriminatory, but when I was enlisted in the Army I would have rather not told anyone and not have to deal with having my fellow soldier hate me or be repulsed because of some inconsequential detail. Something like that could, and most certainly would, interrupt soldiers with their tasks. As far as the doctor/patient thing goes, when I was enlisted it was also forbidden to discuss anyone else's sexuality. I don't believe it's right for a doctor to divulge such information, even in the military, but that's another issue altogether.
As far as handgun ownership goes, I'll take a line from a pro-gun gay group and just say, "Armed Gays Don't Get Bashed." The simple fact of the matter is that hate crimes generally involve one or two victims, and a larger number of assailants. Having a pistol could tip the the odds significantly. Simply having it is likely to prevent any aggression towards the would-be victim at all.
I just felt that Prop 8 was too important and too close a race not to make mention of here. Thanks for your understanding.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/514348/
A constitutional revision refers to a, "substantial alteration of the entire constitution, rather than to a less extensive change in one or more of its provisions." Constitutional amendments in California need only a majority vote to pass, whereas revisions require a two-thirds vote in the legislature before they can be put to a popular vote.
One of the ongoing anti-Prop 8 legal cases' holdings is that the scale of the civil rights curtailment resulting from Proposition 8's constitutional ban on same-sex marriage is too fundamental a change to the spirit of the constitution to be an amendment, and that it should have to pass the tighter scrutiny of a revision before it can be made law.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't remember being taught about different sex couples in school.
Either way, I really hope that this doesn't get passed.
It's certainly true that I don't remember being taught anything about marriage at any point in my school career. I would also ask what the supposed consequence of children finding out that same-sex couples can get married will be on children. Is the fear that they'll be turned gay? For what it's worth, I've known about heterosexual marriage for most of my life, and it didn't turn me straight -- that seems to suggest that worried parents can rest easy, no?
Sorry, I tend to rant when talking about things I believe strongly about :C
And yeah, genetic research into the roots of homosexuality does have kind of a sinister side. On the one hand, it would be nice to finally get people to drop the ridiculous "it's a choice" rhetoric, but by the same token, as soon as these people are convinced it's a physical condition, they'll be spending all their money on a "cure," and heaven help their children if they find one.
http://istences.livejournal.com/102426.html
I'm tired of this coming to a 'To/For' fight, just decide on legalizing it so people stop spending countless dollars, and time, on an issue that while important to some, is not a completely life affecting matter to most people(in comparison to quality of life issues for _everyone_). Things are legal in Canada, and it hasn't changed the non-gay/non-rabid christian(or conservative, I know many anti-christians anti-gays) life any except there's a lot less moaning about it. It's been a good thing overall. So it'd be nice to get something up on it. There's no reason that it needs to be de-legalized, it'll just cause a lot of stress, money, and heartache for many people(not just gays), versus the few people that it'll alleviate if it does get changed.
(I hope this didn't sound weird, I've had a long day, long and short. I think that people should just stop fighting about it, legalize it, get over it, and move onto more pressing matters)
It's too bad that the legalization of gay marriage is still an issue (and will probably continue to be, even if Prop 8 fails to pass). Even in Canada, where gay marriage is legal and people are supposedly more open minded, I've found that the people I'm closest to - even though they're level-headed, highly educated, and kind people - are homophobes. It's something that's pretty much embedded into their heads when they were growing up, and I'd even wager that they'd be supporting Prop 8 if they were in Cali.
Either way, without going off on a tangent - best of luck with Prop 8 and I hope it doesn't pass. I was actually surprised and disappointed to find out that the polls are generally evenly split and I hope that the people who are against Prop 8 (and in Cali, obv) will actually take the time to go and vote against it. Every last vote will count.
Do I lose marks for plagiarism?
I didn't cite my sources.
Thanks for the support, dude <3
same sex marriages already living there and married and stuff.
it it gets passed, thats like handing them the marriage cert, then saying
"OOPS JUST KIDDING LOL"and ripping it back out of their hands after
they were already given it. this whole prop 8 is pretty balls altogether, yeesh.
Now bully your friends and family into voting no with you ^_-
I live in Massachusetts where (currently) same-sex mariages are recognized, protected, and legal. Chalk one up for the Puritan state.
Cheers to you guys, and cheers to your friends out here, man.
Wish I could do more from here, 11'000 miles away... Everyone I personally know is already going to vote against, but that's not enough, right?
In the meantime, good on you for the support and for making sure the folks you know in positions to vote are doing so. I know that donations and volunteering would be tricky from where you are, so I guess just posting info up to every corner of the internet is about the best thing you can do ^_^
Thanks.
I don't expect to have as many watchers as you do, but who knows.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/489014/
I dunno how to say. But just how it seems, and I am not totally sure about this but just with all the TV and comedy I see, stand-up comedy how they say things that are funny yet true, that being the whole woman and man thing. How the man is a dog and a slob and a woman does this or that and how marriage is like a prison or something?
Just what dictates us to think a man and woman has to be together? Just because they can make babies? If that factor was taken out and only same sex couples could make babies I wonder if it would be the other way around. Maybe so, in another world, another universe.
It almost seems in a way that same couples get along better than straight couples even if it is just slightly better, more or less, etc etc. Not saying all couples are in that sense of course. Just it is what seems common and what is put into real life true things into comedy which is what makes things funny and they wouldn't be funny if they weren't true.
I think as most of us should know, us, as humans, when we see or find something we find weird and don't understand and fear it, we think it is wrong and it shouldn't be done. That holds true for many things in the world and well it seems as if the US is destroying itself with things like this. It better not pass. Sad too, Nov.4th is my birthday.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1668466/
But yeah, The proposition itself is bad enough, but the people who support it make me even more sick. All these holy rollers and homophobes who act like giving homosexuals the right to say they're married (even though they apparently have every other right of marriage) is gonna end the world. It's hypocritical, unconstitutional, sickening, and above all absolutely retarded.
Man, California sucks, I can't believe it passed 8C I really hope there's enough angry people to overturn it. It's apparently federally unconstitutional as it stands, because Legislature wants to keep the married couple legally married but not allow more people to get married. So I don't know what's gonna happen as far as overturning it, all I know is there's gonna be a LOT of demonstrations and lawsuits over it.
There's the challenge of whether Prop 8 was a legitimate constitutional amendment to begin with (as opposed to a constitutional revision, which requires a legislative process before it can be put to a popular vote). Like you say, there's the ridiculous issue of having 16,000+ same-sex marriages still legally recognized in a state where the constitution now says that only marriages between a man and a woman are legal or recognized (Ruh roh!). Then there's the straight-up argument that Prop 8 goes against the fundamental spirit of the Constitution (state and federal) as well.
It's just a matter of time <3
Now it's only a matter of time before something falls in our favour. :3
And there's also a movement now to strip the Mormon church of their tax-exempt status, because tax law specifically states that no organization that expends a significant portion of its funds on lobbying expenses will be granted tax-exempt status (cf. IRS law, Section 501©(3)).
Let me be totally clear in saying that I have nothing against the members of any church believing and practicing what they will within their homes and congregations. That said, they're still subject to federal law, same as the rest of us. That law says that you can't be a Church and a lobbying organization at the same time. If they violated that law, they violated that law.
Even if they don't actually lose their tax-exempt status, this will hopefully raise awareness within California and nation-wide about their involvement in the Prop 8 campaign, and serve to embarrass and chastise them enough to deter further explicit involvement of the LDS church in the political ongoings of California.
Gotta keep the fight fair, too ^_^
Oh well, as long as things don't become stupid, and human rights wins out over closed mindedness, even if it's just a compromise in the right direction, things'll all be gravy :3
(Except for the part where we ream them with those lawsuits. That can get rough if it wants to.)
=^.,.^=
It becomes a game of trying to reverse-engineer other arguments from their desired conclusion, and (unsurprisingly) none of them wind up being very convincing. Like you say, reading through their talking points, it's like a who's-who of logical fallacies ^_^
Oh, and I think that "majority rule" is a load of shit or we could get slavery reinstated in some states too. (Not to mention denying interracial marriages if it came to a majority vote)
The snag with same-sex marriages is that the Defense of Marriage Act, passed in 1996, put two points into law:
1) No state or other body is required to recognize same-sex marriages performed in another state.
2) The federal government defines "marriage" as between one man and one woman.
That short-circuited the Full Faith and Credit clause, and left us with the weird patchwork we have today where some states perform/recognize same-sex marriage and others don't.
Eventually, we're going to see a critical mass of married same-sex couples reached where the lawsuits demanding recognition on a federal level get to be too numerous to ignore. The matter will come before the US Supreme Court, and they'll have to judge whether the denial of standard marriage rights to same-sex couples is Constitutional or not.
(Hopefully Scalia will be dead by then.)
But yeah, with popular support for same-sex marriage rising every year, it's only a matter of time. The latest polls show that national support has just crossed the 50% mark -- it was less than that in the case of interracial marriage when the Supreme Court made their decision in Loving v. Virginia. The higher that figure climbs, the more likely it is that the Supreme Court will accept a case, and the less likely it is that they will vote against the will of the populace.
I completely agree that civil rights shouldn't be subject to a majority vote, but thankfully, it looks like we're quickly approaching the point where the majority vote will fall in support of same-sex marriage anyway.