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Rape Accusations
12 years ago
[NOTE: links to chat logs have been redacted in order to comply with FA policy. I am available over notes, or on Skype as videozaush if you want a version of the journal with links intact.]
I have a lot to say, and this journal is going to focus on a few important points.
Scandal
There’s been a continuing rumor for the last 3 years that I’ve been involved in a sex crime. You might classify it as a rape, coercion, or even just me being a miserable sleazy sack of shit that demands sex from random people. It all depends on who you’ve talked to, and what they’ve told you I do or how I am as a person.
On to the topic of rape. I can’t think of a more emotionally charged word, or despicable criminal act. It describes one person engaging in intercourse with another against their will. I take the subject of actual rape, rape victims, and those affected by such atrocities very seriously. That said, I also take seriously the implications of false accusation (particularly relating to violent crimes/rape), invasion of privacy, and the mob mentality that sanctions all of the above as just.
Many of you have read the leaked note to a certain site owner. It describes a fairly desperate male individual who pressures a girl into every decision she makes, using his cunning to drive her decisions and motivations, and getting verbally abusive whenever things don’t go his way. The note concludes with a list of others who are on her concern radar, and leaving little more than a “thought you should know” taste in the mouth. Also of note, the author insisted that this information be kept secret.
There’s always two sides to every story, though. I released the chat logs I’d saved from one of my laptops back in 2010 when this arose, but apparently they didn’t get around quite as quickly as I’d hoped, and I later realized that the information within them mentioned outside parties. Considering the confidential nature of some of the conversations regarding friends of mine who don’t wish to be dragged into this mess, I’m selecting relevant segments and censoring names/details.
My adventurous phase (approximately 2007-2009) were some of the craziest, and likely destructive years of my life. By destructive, I’m referring to the social improbability of having a friend with benefits, and said friendship not turning sour, though sometimes it’s life’s lessons that are the best catalyst for change.
I met [name redacted] at Califur in the summer of 2009. She had her own seller’s table next to my fiancé and I, and at that time we were in something of an open relationship. I introduced myself, and brought up the topic with her, though she explained that she and her boyfriend were in a closed relationship, and that she wasn’t into that kind of thing. I offered an art trade as well, something of the naughty variety, though she once again insisted that her boyfriend wouldn’t like that. We talked a bit, and exchanged contact information, and I didn’t hear back from her for a while.
When she did get back in touch with me, she was in the middle of a breakup with her boyfriend, and the topic of fooling around became center stage. Her opinion toward casual sex reversed almost overnight, and a planned visit to our home (for the additional purpose of touring the local art college my fiancé was currently attending) was arranged between the two of them.
Monday, September 28, 2009
[link to chat log redacted]
During the latter part of her visit, she agreed to an offer of a nude massage, and her desire to go further with it abruptly ended just before sex happened. She told me she was on her period, and I stopped. She welcomed the notion of me and my girl having our own fun with her next to us, and it concluded the evening before she went home. She and I chatted a few days later, reflecting on our experience, the sexual intensity of our conversation escalating. Her interest in making a second visit was also discussed.
Tuesday, October 6, 2009
[link to chat log redacted]
The visit planned for october never happened, which was disappointing, but another was well in the works and ever more focused on her desire to experiment with me, this time with a one on one visit.
Monday, December 28, 2009
[link to chat log redacted]
Things went well, she and I enjoyed each other’s company and all seemed well until the next morning when her ex called her and accosted her over the phone. She was pretty choked up at his words, calling her a slut, telling her that she should go back home and call off her visit with me. She and I ceased out sexual activity after that morning, and she spent the next two days just hanging out before she had to go home. I managed to get back in touch with her about a week and a half afterward, her views on casual sex with friends had changed considerably, and her ex’s opinion on the matter of what she does weighed in quite a bit more than ever before.
Monday, January 11, 2010
[link to chat log redacted]
We discussed more of her thoughts on the visit, and she insisted she didn’t have negative feelings about it. She explained that she didn’t think she could detach sex from love and emotional desire, and that her ex’s distaste for her interaction with me and my fiancé was also a part of her decision to potentially end our arrangement. I explained to her that she needn’t remain under his thumb, and the way she described him made him seem controlling of her personal life due to his jealousy. My suggestion was that she distance herself from him and see if he could handle maintaining a friendship with her where he was not in control of what decisions she made. If she wanted to continue our arrangement during FC that month, then it was entirely up to her. Neither him nor I could tell her what decisions to make, or how to live her life.
Wednesday, January 13, 2010
[link to chat log redacted]
Her interest in fooling around at the upcoming Further Confusion convention was wishy-washy, inconclusive at best, and I resigned to the fact that our days of having such fun were probably at an end. Her condition being that we use condoms if we fooled around again, and I had always expressed my preference against them, and so it came to pass that upon meeting up at the event we would keep our sexual interests out of it.
She’d asked me to bring the slotted glasses she’d left at my house during her last visit, and when I saw her in the dealer’s room to return them, we had little more than a minute or two of hellos before she had to go. I’d been under the impression she wanted to hang out some, but understood that she might have had prior or unforeseen engagements to take care of. I didn’t see her again during the trip.
I talked to her again several weeks after the convention, at which point she told me about a guy she’d fooled around with since, and how he ended up being something of an undesirable personality. Surprisingly, her ex wasn’t concerned with her sleeping around with him, and upon further discussion it had to do with his comfort level with her being involved with me and my fiancé sans the use of condoms. I discovered this when I offered another visit opportunity, and her immediate condition was that condoms be involved. I wasn’t going to budge on my preference for bare skin, so no plans came of it.
Some time later, she sent me a series of text telling me she didn’t want to be associated with me anymore. She claimed that her visit at the convention was brief because she thought I’d force her to do things with her that she didn’t want to do. I was upset about the whole thing, especially when I found out that she had in fact gotten back with her ex. She had what seemed to be a complete reversal of her opinion concerning the topic of our casual sex. Her words felt like either the justification she needed to maintain a rejuvenated relationship with her ex, or the result of a breadcrumb trail of lies and betrayal. It didn’t end well, and we called the friendship off that night over text. I didn’t want to hear from her again, and I nor did she from me.
Fast forward to the holiday break of 2010, December 19th to be exact. My fiancé had since dumped me the past spring for one of her swinging partners, an older guy with a larger income. Months later I’d met a wonderful girl, not of the furry fandom, and we’d been together for long enough that I wanted to bring her up to visit my folks for a Christmas getaway. At some point a disturbing eruption of drama had surfaced that I was involved in a rape scandal. I figured it was some kind of wild rumor going around like such things always seemed to with me. I kept my personal life off the internet as a general rule back then, leaving a massive void that could only be filled by fiction.
But this was something else. A note hacked from FA’s own administration was making the rounds, telling a confidential story of unwanted advances by a menace to society. A villainous cretin who has, or will, be a danger to others listed. Mind you, none of the people listed currently back her claim, even the ones who initially had knee-jerk reactions based on the assumption that her note was true.
Words could not describe my frustration at all the hate shouts, notes, comments, and public scorn this had brought upon me. To make matters worse, my own account had been hacked, locking me out of it and deleting all of my art submissions, and collecting my notes of correspondence between those who had contacted me, soon to be post posted on yiffyleaks.
The notes themselves posed no value toward the argument that I was the person described in her letter to the site owner. Rather, it was justified that a monster who fits the description of her letter has none of the rights of a human being, and should be made a pariah through constant ridicule and harassment. Things weren’t the same since then, and I very nearly removed myself from the fandom entirely out of pure disgust of the mob mentality.
Everything from dox dropping to death threats ensued, and I knew I needed to find some way to get these people off my back. I initiated a remote connection to one of my machines back in California, and screen capped all of the logs I had in Adium between me and this girl, asking a friend to distribute them through the usual drama channels in hopes of people reading them and realizing that her claims did not reflect the reality of our involvement. (The same logs I’m paraphrasing above.) The commotion died down with time, and I assumed that the issue had been forgotten for the most part, apart from the occasional fanatic or stalker insisting I was guilty. I could even joke about the accusation, having suffered what I consider one of the most significant shit-storms of my existence on the internet.
Conclusion
I urge those out there to think for themselves, especially regarding sensationalist media that’s nothing more than he-said-she-said, or an attacks on someone’s character using out of context quotes, or even presenting outright fictional data that is protected by anonymity and firewalls against litigation.
Regarding sexual matters, I’ve grown so much since the days of swinging and casual sex, instead choosing what I consider a more fulfilling life of monogamy, shedding much of the arrogance and self centered behavior of a young man, and growing into a sociable adult. My preference for unprotected sex suits me well within that model, but don’t let my poor choices set an example for those of you engaging in casual sex. Condoms are the most effective way of preventing the spread of STDs amongst those with multiple partners.
If you’re a victim of rape or sex crime, contact the authorities, or at the very least seek a counselor who can help you make the right decision or cope. Crimes of this nature should be dealt with by those who are able to intervene, so be brave and don’t hide away in the shadows thinking nobody cares.
[NOTE: links to chat logs have been redacted in order to comply with FA policy. I am available over notes, or on Skype as videozaush if you want a version of the journal with links intact.]
I have a lot to say, and this journal is going to focus on a few important points.
Scandal
There’s been a continuing rumor for the last 3 years that I’ve been involved in a sex crime. You might classify it as a rape, coercion, or even just me being a miserable sleazy sack of shit that demands sex from random people. It all depends on who you’ve talked to, and what they’ve told you I do or how I am as a person.
On to the topic of rape. I can’t think of a more emotionally charged word, or despicable criminal act. It describes one person engaging in intercourse with another against their will. I take the subject of actual rape, rape victims, and those affected by such atrocities very seriously. That said, I also take seriously the implications of false accusation (particularly relating to violent crimes/rape), invasion of privacy, and the mob mentality that sanctions all of the above as just.
Many of you have read the leaked note to a certain site owner. It describes a fairly desperate male individual who pressures a girl into every decision she makes, using his cunning to drive her decisions and motivations, and getting verbally abusive whenever things don’t go his way. The note concludes with a list of others who are on her concern radar, and leaving little more than a “thought you should know” taste in the mouth. Also of note, the author insisted that this information be kept secret.
There’s always two sides to every story, though. I released the chat logs I’d saved from one of my laptops back in 2010 when this arose, but apparently they didn’t get around quite as quickly as I’d hoped, and I later realized that the information within them mentioned outside parties. Considering the confidential nature of some of the conversations regarding friends of mine who don’t wish to be dragged into this mess, I’m selecting relevant segments and censoring names/details.
My adventurous phase (approximately 2007-2009) were some of the craziest, and likely destructive years of my life. By destructive, I’m referring to the social improbability of having a friend with benefits, and said friendship not turning sour, though sometimes it’s life’s lessons that are the best catalyst for change.
I met [name redacted] at Califur in the summer of 2009. She had her own seller’s table next to my fiancé and I, and at that time we were in something of an open relationship. I introduced myself, and brought up the topic with her, though she explained that she and her boyfriend were in a closed relationship, and that she wasn’t into that kind of thing. I offered an art trade as well, something of the naughty variety, though she once again insisted that her boyfriend wouldn’t like that. We talked a bit, and exchanged contact information, and I didn’t hear back from her for a while.
When she did get back in touch with me, she was in the middle of a breakup with her boyfriend, and the topic of fooling around became center stage. Her opinion toward casual sex reversed almost overnight, and a planned visit to our home (for the additional purpose of touring the local art college my fiancé was currently attending) was arranged between the two of them.
Monday, September 28, 2009
[link to chat log redacted]
During the latter part of her visit, she agreed to an offer of a nude massage, and her desire to go further with it abruptly ended just before sex happened. She told me she was on her period, and I stopped. She welcomed the notion of me and my girl having our own fun with her next to us, and it concluded the evening before she went home. She and I chatted a few days later, reflecting on our experience, the sexual intensity of our conversation escalating. Her interest in making a second visit was also discussed.
Tuesday, October 6, 2009
[link to chat log redacted]
The visit planned for october never happened, which was disappointing, but another was well in the works and ever more focused on her desire to experiment with me, this time with a one on one visit.
Monday, December 28, 2009
[link to chat log redacted]
Things went well, she and I enjoyed each other’s company and all seemed well until the next morning when her ex called her and accosted her over the phone. She was pretty choked up at his words, calling her a slut, telling her that she should go back home and call off her visit with me. She and I ceased out sexual activity after that morning, and she spent the next two days just hanging out before she had to go home. I managed to get back in touch with her about a week and a half afterward, her views on casual sex with friends had changed considerably, and her ex’s opinion on the matter of what she does weighed in quite a bit more than ever before.
Monday, January 11, 2010
[link to chat log redacted]
We discussed more of her thoughts on the visit, and she insisted she didn’t have negative feelings about it. She explained that she didn’t think she could detach sex from love and emotional desire, and that her ex’s distaste for her interaction with me and my fiancé was also a part of her decision to potentially end our arrangement. I explained to her that she needn’t remain under his thumb, and the way she described him made him seem controlling of her personal life due to his jealousy. My suggestion was that she distance herself from him and see if he could handle maintaining a friendship with her where he was not in control of what decisions she made. If she wanted to continue our arrangement during FC that month, then it was entirely up to her. Neither him nor I could tell her what decisions to make, or how to live her life.
Wednesday, January 13, 2010
[link to chat log redacted]
Her interest in fooling around at the upcoming Further Confusion convention was wishy-washy, inconclusive at best, and I resigned to the fact that our days of having such fun were probably at an end. Her condition being that we use condoms if we fooled around again, and I had always expressed my preference against them, and so it came to pass that upon meeting up at the event we would keep our sexual interests out of it.
She’d asked me to bring the slotted glasses she’d left at my house during her last visit, and when I saw her in the dealer’s room to return them, we had little more than a minute or two of hellos before she had to go. I’d been under the impression she wanted to hang out some, but understood that she might have had prior or unforeseen engagements to take care of. I didn’t see her again during the trip.
I talked to her again several weeks after the convention, at which point she told me about a guy she’d fooled around with since, and how he ended up being something of an undesirable personality. Surprisingly, her ex wasn’t concerned with her sleeping around with him, and upon further discussion it had to do with his comfort level with her being involved with me and my fiancé sans the use of condoms. I discovered this when I offered another visit opportunity, and her immediate condition was that condoms be involved. I wasn’t going to budge on my preference for bare skin, so no plans came of it.
Some time later, she sent me a series of text telling me she didn’t want to be associated with me anymore. She claimed that her visit at the convention was brief because she thought I’d force her to do things with her that she didn’t want to do. I was upset about the whole thing, especially when I found out that she had in fact gotten back with her ex. She had what seemed to be a complete reversal of her opinion concerning the topic of our casual sex. Her words felt like either the justification she needed to maintain a rejuvenated relationship with her ex, or the result of a breadcrumb trail of lies and betrayal. It didn’t end well, and we called the friendship off that night over text. I didn’t want to hear from her again, and I nor did she from me.
Fast forward to the holiday break of 2010, December 19th to be exact. My fiancé had since dumped me the past spring for one of her swinging partners, an older guy with a larger income. Months later I’d met a wonderful girl, not of the furry fandom, and we’d been together for long enough that I wanted to bring her up to visit my folks for a Christmas getaway. At some point a disturbing eruption of drama had surfaced that I was involved in a rape scandal. I figured it was some kind of wild rumor going around like such things always seemed to with me. I kept my personal life off the internet as a general rule back then, leaving a massive void that could only be filled by fiction.
But this was something else. A note hacked from FA’s own administration was making the rounds, telling a confidential story of unwanted advances by a menace to society. A villainous cretin who has, or will, be a danger to others listed. Mind you, none of the people listed currently back her claim, even the ones who initially had knee-jerk reactions based on the assumption that her note was true.
Words could not describe my frustration at all the hate shouts, notes, comments, and public scorn this had brought upon me. To make matters worse, my own account had been hacked, locking me out of it and deleting all of my art submissions, and collecting my notes of correspondence between those who had contacted me, soon to be post posted on yiffyleaks.
The notes themselves posed no value toward the argument that I was the person described in her letter to the site owner. Rather, it was justified that a monster who fits the description of her letter has none of the rights of a human being, and should be made a pariah through constant ridicule and harassment. Things weren’t the same since then, and I very nearly removed myself from the fandom entirely out of pure disgust of the mob mentality.
Everything from dox dropping to death threats ensued, and I knew I needed to find some way to get these people off my back. I initiated a remote connection to one of my machines back in California, and screen capped all of the logs I had in Adium between me and this girl, asking a friend to distribute them through the usual drama channels in hopes of people reading them and realizing that her claims did not reflect the reality of our involvement. (The same logs I’m paraphrasing above.) The commotion died down with time, and I assumed that the issue had been forgotten for the most part, apart from the occasional fanatic or stalker insisting I was guilty. I could even joke about the accusation, having suffered what I consider one of the most significant shit-storms of my existence on the internet.
Conclusion
I urge those out there to think for themselves, especially regarding sensationalist media that’s nothing more than he-said-she-said, or an attacks on someone’s character using out of context quotes, or even presenting outright fictional data that is protected by anonymity and firewalls against litigation.
Regarding sexual matters, I’ve grown so much since the days of swinging and casual sex, instead choosing what I consider a more fulfilling life of monogamy, shedding much of the arrogance and self centered behavior of a young man, and growing into a sociable adult. My preference for unprotected sex suits me well within that model, but don’t let my poor choices set an example for those of you engaging in casual sex. Condoms are the most effective way of preventing the spread of STDs amongst those with multiple partners.
If you’re a victim of rape or sex crime, contact the authorities, or at the very least seek a counselor who can help you make the right decision or cope. Crimes of this nature should be dealt with by those who are able to intervene, so be brave and don’t hide away in the shadows thinking nobody cares.
[NOTE: links to chat logs have been redacted in order to comply with FA policy. I am available over notes, or on Skype as videozaush if you want a version of the journal with links intact.]
Although to be totally accurate, it isn't certain that this quote is actually attributable to Eleanor Roosevelt, it's been doing the rounds since 1948 but there's no original source.
Folks be innocent until proven guilty in a Court of Law. Not the Court of Public Opinion.
So those of us not involved in any incidents which may or may not have occurred should drop it and move on.
Which is what I intend to do. Although I have issues with this site, I am not leaving it.
but ill add that if anythign unlawful has been done, that you should turn yourself in.
but when its senseless violence happening in front of them nobody bats an eye
Maybe realize that you and the other head hunters are NOT the court of law, although apart of the Sheeple*(1) Staffed "Court of Opinion". Think with your own mind next time and try not to be swayed by junk logic, falsified facts, and inflated senses of ego and morality that people would only tout around online to impress their subscribers/watchers while safely behind their computers. Analyze situations before you cry wolf, and enable others (by not telling them to use their brains) to go on a witch hunt against someone who is quite possibly innocent (I am almost 100% sure of this) and ruin their lives off of hazy accusations that spark off of the word "Rape".
*(1) Definition of Sheeple: Sheeple (a portmanteau of "sheep" and "people") is a term that highlights the herd behavior of people by likening them to sheep, a herd animal. The term is used to describe those who voluntarily acquiesce to a suggestion without critical analysis or research.
Here is a good mental checklist that I go through on wild stuff like this. Maybe it will help you see, I operate with cold logic.
1.) Was there any legal documentation of this factually happening?
*Does not matter if it favored the victim or not. (I.E: Files were charged and dropped, or Zaush was taken to court and won, ect.)
2.) Is there any proof aside from social bloggers parroting everyone else, mud slinging and going on their own self righteous witch hunt?
*Committing a Tumbler effect
*I.E: Is there any witness that is close to the friend and not some other person dredged up from the ether of the internet.
3.) Do you think it is wise getting emotionally invested in stuff that has nothing to do with you and no factual ground other than "He said, She said." and echoing behind that, a resounding clamor of "They said", "They did" and personally supporting people who are trying to ruin someones life based off of stuff that even they have no business in?
I am not for Rapers, I do not support them. I support Cold, Factual evidence. I support Cold Mental Reasoning. I don't care what the words Rape mean to someone or to you. Call me a bastard. I only care if it happened. If it did, Damn the perpetrator. If it didn't and a person is crying wolf, Damn the Liar.
Congratulations on a post worthy of infinite praise. I hope many may read this and learn from you.
Seriously, thank you.
Good to see that there are indeed people online with common sense. I've been around for some time on FA, and I have to admit that sometimes I have been one of these 'sheeple' at times (although only when there's at least SOME evidence to bring an accusation into the realm of fact). I have grown up since joining here, and have now known for a good while not to take things at face value, and that even the evidence may be called into question.
I've not seen a scrap of this so called 'evidence' that has made the rounds of the net, either for or against. Perhaps both have been consigned to the deepest darkest parts of the Deep Web, and may never appear to me. But I know for certain, until I've seen enough proof that can be classified as sound, untampered with, completely 100% real, who am I to judge?
Zaush currently has enough counter-allegations for an unbiased court to be more likely to declare him not guilty. He also claims to have enough evidence to back up his counter-allegations, so until a time as I would be needed to make an opinion, I give him the benefit of the doubt.
Accused does not equal guilty.
Personally, I think Zaush should continue on with what he is doing and Damn them all. Why? Well if he were to step down he would:
a.) Be setting a precedent for these people to think that their 'white knighting' will get them the results they want, and furthermore it will inflate their ego.
and...
b.) Imagine in the future... a relationship going sour and your partner hates you and calls you a Rapist online, or socially slams you and you did nothing other than just displease him/her. Guess what, people like this (the people on tumblr, ect.) will be out for your head on a platter and nobody will raise a cry.
*Note: I am not saying YOU personally, I am saying anyone falsely accused of rape.
It just isn't fair to have your life ruined by this, employers even search your name up online to see what comes up and I doubt it will be easy for someone accused of stuff like this to get a job ANYWHERE even if innocent. Seriously, Search up Zaush's real name and you will see the Sheeple (20+ tumblr websites with almost copy+paste wording) along with a full wiki about him SLAMMING him off of groundless and legally unproven acts from leaked notes.
Zaush to me sounds like he is an arrogant person by this post. someone with a huge ego problem. just please, stop this bs.
And that they're from Tumblr.
This "social justice warrior" idea has been around for ages, under one name or another. The fact that the mentality is flaring up right now doesn't mean that it's a new arrival. They're not doing this to target Zaush because they think he's a rapist. They're not going to leave because he steps down, or even because FA folds. These would be celebrated as victories by the Social Justice Army, and in the way of most conquering armies, they'd leave a sizable battalion behind to make sure the natives don't get restless and prevent them from improving our lives.
You know, kinda like the US did in Cuba and the Phillippines after the Spanish American War.
But to get back to my point... they're kinda like cockroaches. The roaches didn't move in because you bought a box of sugary cereal. And they're not going away because you stop doing so. They were always there, hiding in the shadows, and they'll always be there, unless you're willing to nuke the site from orbit.
And even then, you can't really be sure.
we are very much real were just not your fake fantasy ones that can throw fireballs out of our hands lol (though that would be really awesome if we could xD)
I'm aware that wiccans are real people. ;) As I said, I've read lots of Scott Cunningham books. Debunking pseudoscience is a favorite hobby of mine.
Witchcraft, is not real.
And if you come up with any results at all, take them to James Randi and win yourself a cool million bucks. I'll even help you fill out the application. :)
You know there are people out there that doubt the Holocaust happened, right? Looks like he's a direct equivalent. The trolls of the real world. People who have to hate and making others miserable to make themselves happy. People who would definitely do well to live a little by the Wiccan code of "Do what you will so long as you harm none."
You, sir, deserve an award.
It all comes down to proof. There's plenty of proof that the holocaust happened.
Where's the proof of your claims?
Next they'll be telling me that Santa Claus is real.
1) Offering a cash reward for duplicatable proof of supernatural ability, such as ESP, ghosts, mind-reading and other psychic powers.
2) Debunking fraudsters like Uri Geller the spoon bender who claim to have mystic powers. Randi worked with Johnny Carson to debunk Geller when Geller appeared on the tonight show. As Randi and Carson were both former magicians, they saw eye-to-eye and were aware of the magician tricks that huckers used to deceive the unwary.
He did the same with "faith healer" Peter Poppoff who took peoples' money while tricking them into believing that God told him directly about peoples' illnesses, and that his faith had just "healed" them. The reality was that Poppoff's staff was able to relay by radio personal information on prayer cards to Poppoff, giving him the ability to "miraculously" know peoples' illnesses, and declare them cured. This not only meant he made false claims for money, but said sick individuals would lose valuable treatment under the mistaken belief they were cured. Hucksters, quacks, they don't merely make humorous claims that can't be proven, they prey on people who are at their most vulnerable and desperate for a buck. I have no problems with the exposure of such individuals.
Randi can be abrasive, I'll give him that. But he's also a MacArthur Fellow, which makes him a far cry from a "troll."
YOU WANT A FUCKING FOG WORLD? DO YOU?
I've seen preachers. I live with witch room-mates. Trust me. They're real.
And they're all practitioners of nonsense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
So... yeah.
Is it that my beliefs are different than yours that makes me loathsome, or my engaging in conversation about it that makes me loathsome?
personally as a Shinto practitioner of Onmyodo, i can empathize with the feeling you have in the topic though. :)
Though, I am glad to see this stop being a one-sided issue. Kudos to Zaush for responding in in this calm demanor.
you are completely right with this.
But those who participate in the court of public opinion are, in my opinion, asses.
Take this drama to criminal court where it belongs.
While I prefer Weasyl because I think it's built better over all, it's not a reason to leave FA. Neither is this, and nor is it a reason to gossip. It's like an unintentional game of telephone, the players just don't know they're playing.
bummer bro!
This was from people who were "moving" to Weasyl.
What's been said has been said. Whether opinions change or not is not up to anybody other than their own.
.......
unless they get pressured to change their opinion.
:o
You replied to the wrong comment, I never said anything about "EVERYONE that goes ad/or moves to weasyl is a horrible HORRIBLE person".
anywho, you said "I don't want to be huddled together with such people that are quick to use libellous, slanderous and defamation comments against me just for trying to get people to clarify their absolute truths (not opinions) they were spreading around."
i.e. you don't want to be around the people that MOVED there for such reason. Why not just accept that some people actually want change and join just for the sake of that?
Whatever the case, we'll see what happens =]
Because FA is changing for the better, those people are going away which resolves my issues.
Also, I already have a Weasyl account, I just refuse to use the website now.
AND FOLDERS HOLY SHIT THEY HAVE FOLDERS
But yeah. The whole 'hoping and waiting' thing has become tiresome over what the what...5-7 years of false promises? mnyeh.
Personally, I'd prefer to use deviantArt if it weren't so restrictive on the types of art they accepted. But FA works otherwise.
> At least promises are fullfilled there.
That's nice.
> The whole 'hoping and waiting' thing has become tiresome over what the what...5-7 years of false promises?
I'm not hoping or waiting, this is sufficient for me.
unless you're talking about DA which is a completely different animal on it's own but it's k.
But whatever makes you happy!
Either way we'll see how things go :D
bawhghgh
Given that Weasyl is supposed to be a general art website, not just furry, I'm surprised more folks are not pushing SoFurry and other furry exclusive websites.
also there's a tag filter system you can use on weasyl and a few other sites as well =] pretty nifty!
I gave up trying to find it on Weasyl yesterday when I decided to ditch it.
As for SF? I find it more of a writer's haven, where I just simply vomit what comes out of my brain into a picture :D My hubby used to be on SF quite a bit but yeah. Everyone's got a preference. Some are just moving to a different and better flow is all~
I think ultimately I just want me and the people I wanna follow to feel comfortable, ya know? Simple as that :3
Recruit people on your own site, and let people have their opinions. Do you think that arguing with people with such a coercive attitude is going to convince them to come to weasyl?
You want to know why FA is better? because everyone is here with the exception of people butthurt over issues like the above when it doesn't concern them. This is the furry social network. Why would people use a website where their friends aren't as a social network.
woowoo! it's a gasss
You also seriously passed off the other questions I asked :P
and also uhm... yeah, i've made a shitload of friends here but you know why other people use this site and other art sites? Again, money. This place isn't only for social networking, you know =]
Weasyl has promised change on some major problems for a year plus now with no results. At least SF mucks things up with updates on a very regular basis. ^.^ And it has a happy thumbnail system.
Anywho I agree to disagree with how you feel and how many others feel. And fuck yeah I love it but, like everyone else, there's a bit of a Stockholm Syndrome that will always float about our beautiful and seemingly everlasting FA =]
But feel free to bastardize those that make a decision where they wish to choose to post their art. It's fun to watch ^_^
MANY people accused of being guilty and admitting innocence WERE innocent so why does the Ford example trump the others?
Didn't we meet at one of FireStorm's parties a while back? Your profile pic on FA looks very familiar, then again I also watch XTube ;)
And frankly, the public is already doing their own good job of re-victimizing the alleged victim because they are creating an environment where supports of the accused who are not as mature as some of the other adults here will go and harass her, or her name will be dragged through just as his is now. And I'll keep saying alleged because I still am not sure if SHE herself ever actually accused him of rape at all. That charge seems to be a community generated accusation (but if evidence is shown contrary, I'll more than recant that statement because then it'll be factually known).
1.) He is not in an administrative position. He has no access to ban/suspend/delete/etc. tools on this site. He has no authority to do anything.
2.) He has no access to the production databases or any private content on the current FA. All of his development will be done on a test server with sample data sets not taken from the community at large.
3.) The "required number of signatures" is 1,000 - less than 10% of the users online at any given time, and a tiny, insignificant fraction of the entire active userbase. It is not, as the petition states, a "large portion".
4.) The administration team only issued a small number of suspensions/bans at the beginning of the drama, as is allowed per the terms of service. After those few bans (which were widely publicized) no more administrative action was taken, and Dragoneer has been posting a lot of comments on a lot of journals explaining the situation.
5.) Online petitions are useless and don't do anything.
6.) FA is not a democracy.
Now, it could be said he probably should have spoken his side as clear then as he did just now, but the result in a fandom like this seems still probably would have been the same. People drawing the lines in the sand of what side they believed and that would be that. The furry fandom is very good at choosing a side based on emotions than actual full factual context before hand so I'm not sure if a statement would have been possible or if an 'apology' would have done any good either.
From a non-judgmental party, I'd also like to see the other person involved in this side of the story and statement of events. It would, afterall, only be fair so that a compare and contrast can happen. To my knowledge, I don't believe the other party has ever actually brought the claim of 'rape' towards the accused or am I mistaken?
"I was gonna do so much, but I work 72 hours a week on another job and have no time to code FA."
Good riddance. Any decent developer would apologize and give up the assigned tasks so someone else could take them over; code isn't gonna write itself.
Also, the "FurAffinity that could’ve been" mockup he posted is pathetic; what is it, 30 minutes of work?
By stepping down he has in my opinion expressed his desire for the greater good and the triumph over his legendary ego. Done.
People would start thinking about what they`re saying and hopefully reflect. Maybe he is not as bad as people point him out to be, or maybe he did change. It`s an easy choice in my opinion.
Is he so unhappy with his current list of conquests that he feels the need to add FA Saviour/Coder to his resume? Or is it his ego? I am thinking ego.
It has nothing to do with ego on his part, it is logic. What is there to gain from stepping down, Logically? People who are prone to wanting to go on head hunts don't usually stop even if the other side acquiesced. Getting a job ANYWHERE, hired ANYWHERE to ANY position will be hard for anyone in the unfortunate position of being falsely accused of something like this.
If he has some concern (which I assume he does), step down and do what he does best. Draw. That is if he has the lust to do so after this.
1.) Begging for sex
2.) Being insensitive
3.) Being slow on the Guard
and these aren't crimes in the court of law :/ Sure these make you think differently about someone, but it does not make anyone better just by damning him. He, we, everyone here... We are all human, we all change, all grow, and all make mistakes and errors, even those of our character.
If all I have to do to get somebody to step down from a position of authority is claim they murdered my dog...
Then what's stopping me from making whoever I want bend to my will?
Hey admin- you ought to ban so-and-so, or I'll say that you murdered my dog.
XD It's a stupid example, but it serves to make the point.
You can't just bend over because drama might happen.
You have to stand up for the truth.
Dragoneer bears much blame for choosing you in the first place over dozes of better qualified people.
Dragoneer owns FA I don't see an issue with hiring his friend to do work on it.
this is the reason why Dragoneer playing favorites (like always picking his "friends" for things) can cause issues. just because they are your friend doesn't mean they are always right 100% of the time.
Only days after all this started was any attempt made to address this and it's obviously inadequate. Zaush needs to go because he is such a divisive figure.
This isn't even getting into whether or not he's competent and his bullying style which has driven professional programmers away.
Sorry, you were just dangerously correct.
The fact remains that Zaush is and will be deeply divisive and he has driven away people who were better qualified to re-write FA. That is why he needs to go.
Really? I would like to assess that myself. Please provide the following information:
What skills do these people have?
What do they know of scalable solutions?
What sort of systems have they implemented on comparable scales?
Resumes of these better qualified ones will likely provide all this information for me.
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa.....=1#post4361073
Zaush is, at the least, a divisive figure who is not as suited to the task as some make out and that is why he should step down or be removed.
So, there it is. No amount of sidetracking about resumes will change this.
I read the drama story, but honestly, it didn't answer these type of questions at all:
What skills do these people have?
What do they know of scalable solutions?
What sort of systems have they implemented on comparable scales?
I can't do an assessment of someone without proper information. I am not interested allegations of holes of Zaush's knowledge that is filled by someone else, I want to know what these 'better qualified' people actually know, have experience in, what sort of systems they've implemented etc.
The company they worked for has no relevance to me (I've work in and with large companies, not everyone that works in a prestigious one actually knows what they are doing).
I would not take anyone on that thread on such work based off that none information, so I don't see why you would consider any one of them to begin with.
> So, there it is.
Yeah, I wouldn't take anyone of these people based off that information alone. I would not trust you to do any sort of assessment in this area either at this point.
Go and ask them:
www.furaffinity.net/user/myr
www.furaffinity.net/user/benanderson
"I'd rather not talk about this, TBH. Just fire me whatever question you want in a Note and I'll answer it."
So maybe you should send him those questions in a note.
How about you just stop making claims about things you clearly don't know anything about to begin with.
I think you should be saying that to Zaush!
He is not saying Zaush is innocent, but he is also not saying he is guilty.
You are basing your opinion on rumour.
Yes, drama has come out of this, but it is people like you that jump on the bad wagon and treat him as guilty.
You are basically saying in your posts "I'm treating you as if you were guilty without a fair trial and you should be punished by stepping away from FA"
Dragoneer made a mistake by appointing Zaush and he's making a mistake by keeping him on. He's demonstrating a real contempt for the users, the community here and it's just disastrous. This is going to be a festering issue for a long time to come and people will remember it.
Lets say that he is totally innocent of all crimes......How the heck do you think you would feel if you were told you couldn't help with the site because of a crime you didn't commit? Because all the drama furs would rage quit?
One of your good friends has had a hard time being treated unfair for something he didn't do.....would you still be friends with him?
I know I would look after my friends and defend them if needed....until I was presented with proof. Thats what friends do.
You were speaking earlier how he wasn't getting people more qualified than him on the time. You spoke as if you knew exactly how qualified he was and how qualified the other people were...when you did not know.
I mean no offence, and you are probably not like this, but it sounds like you would throw your own friends out (guilty or not) if it would save on drama. That is how you sound to me.
That is how most of the "get rid of Zaush" posts sound in this journal
http://benanderson89.tumblr.com/pos.....-over-fa-2-0-3
"I was gonna do so much, but I work 72 hours a week on another job and have no time to code FA." This volunteer is a great asset to FA's development, with all the plans and expertise he has... Too bad code won't write itself.
Funny you should say that. I did this because someone just like you made very similar claims. One of these individuals that he didn't want to discuss it (see the shout on my user page) and I respected his wishes because honestly, he is a third party to this BS and doesn't deserve to be pulled into a convo if he doesn't want to be.
The fact /I/ am told that /I/ have to go investigate the truth tells me that the person who is claiming it, doesn't know the truth to begin with.
I said it would suffice, I didn't say it was required. After all, a resume is just a nice compact form of information condensed into a few pages. I assumed that when you made the determination that these people were 'better', you had access to such information to perform an assessment. I wasn't expecting some forum thread that tells me little to nothing on whom to take on for such a task.
Of course, in reality if I was in Dragoneer's position, I would have a follow up interview with someone (informal) if I was in such a role, but I was willing to try to accept what was provided as experience/knowledge at face value.
> I'm not digging up peoples resumes for you.
That's fine, but I want you to be aware that after our little discussion, I am going to be very sceptical of any future claims you make as well now and advise others to do the same.
This thread is evidence of why.
As I said, if you want some resumes go and ask these people for em'. Anyone can read the thread and make up their own mind about Zaush's proclivities WRT to being a brash bully who talks himself up. You made up your mind and that is your right, but good lord get off your high horse with this nonsense:
> I want you to be aware that after our little discussion, I am going to be very sceptical of any future claims you make as well now and advise others to do the same.
If he is shown to be screwing up the coding of the site and hindering it's function, then he should step down. But until he has actually done something, like anyone else, he should be afforded the benefit of the doubt.
I like giving people the opportunity to prove themselves worthy of something rather than making the decision about them before they have.
Anyone can well see what Zaush and Dragoneer have already done to the site and the bitter divisions and bad feeling they've opened up in the community.
If Dragoneer or Zaush cared about the community such a deeply divisive person as Zaush would not be on staff in preference to people who do not have the same reputation.
Personally, I'm in favor of drama being divisive. That way all the drama-spewing furs can move to weasyl where they'll whine about imaginary rape and art theft and FA can improve standards for constructive criticism and have none of that nonsense.
I think we have such different thoughts on this matter that there would be little point in discussion.
How is it the Zaush's moral obligation to avoid ANY significant role in the community because apparently his mere presence causes divisive drama? Just because rumors and potential libel have been flying around, that means he is no longer allowed to participate?
His role couldn't be more isolated from actual individual action while being widespread. So you're essentially saying that he is now a pariah and should act accordingly. Am I missing something?
which one of my comments were you replying to? The threading has fucked up and I have no idea who is responding to what. D:
I'm automatically someone from tumblr who whines about shit 24/7, because i'm concerned that people are fucking talking about rape like it's a sick joke?
classy
however, i'm sorry to hear that happened to you.
Again, I know what you mean, it's hard to be generalized with those kind of women. It makes me sick, honestly. Yeah, the term feminist comes off as strong, and just..a weird feel, i guess? However, i when labelling myself, don't really categorize myself with the general whole. It's more of just my general thought process towards the matter, with a label slapped on it. i've already made what i think clear, so i'm not going to re-state it.
Oh yeah, with this kind of stuff, i'm completely open. i'm not that stereo typical feminist, don't get me wrong. i don't really even talk to many others as it is. The ones i do talk to, however shade that same mindset I do. I'll give it a look over no doubt.
No harm done, at all. no worries man.
While I can agree with that to some extent, Zaush is the reason for the uproar. Cause and effect brother, you cant rest this blow up entirely on the community. At this point Zaush is social liabiltiy and as habsburg-chin stated he is divisive. He has made really uncouth comments publicly throughout all of this, I personally would not want someone who has behaved as Zaush has representing my website in any way. Dragoneer made a really bad call on this one.
I dont agree with the uproar, but there is more than one reason that people dislike Zaush.
Everyone churning the shit waters isn't going to do anything but create a shit wave that crashes down on everyone's journal inboxes. The people involved have gotten over it, and it's not our position to judge.
The victim is trying to live a normal life now, has a loving boyfriend, and probably hasn't talked to the guy since they broke up, and yet everyone's barging into their personal lives and bringing up these potentially terrible memories for her. They are making it worse on her by spurring these ridiculous drama tsunamis. People do get over rape - they likely don't forgive and forget, but they accept the fact that it happened and start to rebuild their life. That's called getting over it.
Go back to tumblr.
Or did those situations also include repeated visits which resulted in consensual sex which was later questioned and then judged by all parties to not be rape until we all barged in and decided otherwise for them?
Maybe if this website is so "fucking disgusting" and there is "so much filth on this shit running site", you should just leave.
bye
This is basic guidance passed to a jury in a court of law. Whilst from a moral standpoint it is horrible for a rape victim to be forced to stand up in court and recall a traumatic event on public record, it is required for a court of law and the legal system does everything it can using partition screens, testifying remotely and trained custodians to help victims as much as they can.
Now where does this FA incident fit in? It is "Social Justice" from Tumblr where guilt is automatic, people are abusive to the accused and ignore their evidence, interpret facts from a blind perspective clouded by emotion instead of approaching all evidence critically and with a degree of skepticism, hurl abuse at those who do not fit their verdict of guilty (even if neutral, see those throwing "Rape Apologist" at everyone who doesnt' agree) and form a lynch mob hellbent on destroying the accused's reputation. In doing so, they also cause extreme damage to the victim without realising that they are doing so and by starting witch hunts can jeopardise a potential court case, in fact the victim doesn't ever receive any support with this so called "justice". It wouldn't surprise me if a number of replies to this comment are abusive and fit that description above which prompts those who can bring a rational view to the table to hide for fear of repercussion from the community.
In short (though if this is TLDR for you don't even bother hitting reply) Judge Tumblr is a danger to both parties, people need to stop hurling accusations and quit behaving irrationally before something awful happens as mobs are not capable of stopping to view evidence ina balanced light like a court of law and instead cause untold damage to everyone from the victim and accused to you, me and the community as a whole.
SOURCE: My own experiences from jury duty in a British Court of Law which leaves me frankly shocked at the behaviour of all parties. Own stance: NEUTRAL.
As I have said, Dragoneer's appointment of Zaush has caused enormus damage to the community, ill-will and so on. If Zaush respected the community of people that used FA and wanted to help them he would step down. If Dragoneer respected the community of people that used FA and wanted to help them he would let Zaush go.
So yes, 3 years later, the horse was dragged back out and everyone was issued sticks by a few muckrakers that wanted to plant a drama seed.
Only a select few people - so few that I could probably count them with my fingers - really cared about this once people got over the fact that it's a he-said-she-said scenario that nobody will be able to prove.
And yet, 3 years later, it's suddenly the talking point of every furry on the internet, and everyone's poking each other with pitchforks over it. It's a much, much worse situation.
Which is exactly why Zaush needs to go.
I don't think you want to engage in a good faith discussion over this because you've dismissed many members of this community who have legitimate and genuine concerns that are not or have not been addressed, with that choice of phrasing.
So yes, almost everyone making a big deal of this is really just a drama-hungry mob.
I wouldn't call Weasyl getting 10,000+ new user registrations in 24 hours "extremely low".
mmm, liquor
there is nothing you can do about it. get off your soap box, it doesn't matter. you can scream and shout for zaush to step down and leave FA but IT WONT HAPPEN.
the matter of rape is he says she says. there is no definitive proof one way or the other. and the drama it has caused in the long run will not affect FA at all. the site will continue on as it always has whether you like it or not.
By all means advocate on behalf of victims, but leave the predator catching to professionals actually qualified for that type of work.
Can't we all just get along~?
*cough*personallyIdon'twanttoinvolvemyselfintheangryconversations*cough*
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa.....=1#post4361073
Its worth reading. It demonstrates that Zaush isn't quite all he makes himself out to be when it comes to programming. Also, if you look a few posts up, there are some question marks over Zaush's claim to have worked for British airways.
THOUGH, I would agree, he could work on his team leadership and management skills (Depending on what you think is good leadership, kicking people in the butt to do their jobs right or giving them a soft pat on the bag with hugs to get them to work to their potential).
Please don't read me wrong. At no point do I say that the admin have handled this in the right way. At all.
I just feel that the crap storm going on is based on incomplete evidence which I would like to be more clear before passing judgement on something, because if an accusation is enough to condemn someone without any supporting facts to back it up, anybody on this site would be in danger of having their reputation ruined OR any actual victim would have a hard time actually getting the support they truly do need and being believed, which would be even worst.
I just don't understand why calling for a fair and balanced weighing of evidence on a charge against someone is seen as such a jerk thing to expect.
dozens, that should be.
Did she make this claim or is the community making this claim (because if there's anything I've learned about the furry community these past 18 years is that once someone says one thing, it telephones like wild fire whether it's based on a true factual event or not).
Her accusation is that she felt coerced and forced into sexual situations. She claims not to have made this accusation in order to bring about any legal retribution, instead stated that she hoped to prevent the same happening to other people. I couldn't fault anyone for defining her above descriptions as rape, and there's many people who would say that's exactly what happened.
Those ALSO however, were statements made in private, to another person, not Zaush as well, after the fact.
Now, I'm not making an opinion one way or another because of the fact that as and adult, she has the right to express her opinion on the matter, particularly now that it's made public, or not. However, by choosing not, she is thus denying an equal accounting of presented evidence by 2 opposing sides where a fair decision/judgment can be made on what's true and what isn't. To have feelings about something, isn't enough to charge someone with one of the most terrible crimes one human being can commit against another (in my opinion it's even worst than murdering someone). To allow other people to define "her above description as rape" is to allow second party hearsayers to make a judgement of intent and motive without one ounce of input from her. Which frankly may be even more condescending because it's like saying she's not mentally capable of making her own decisions as an adult woman.
And believing her accusation, just because she said so, without her presenting any evidence of her claim/charge, isn't fair either. It'd be like someone saying "I think VitualSin has assaulted someone" and then just leaving it at that with nothing to support the claim.
NOW, is the behavior displayed either way something I would encourage people to do? Hell now, but then I'm a bit an old fuddyduddy conservative in thinking when it comes to how people should act in relationships that involves sexual relations with another person, but I'm not going to hammer anyone who believes otherwise.
I do believe though that adults have a responsibility to held responsible for their behavior and decisions they make. They both are adults. They both needed to do what they needed to do to resolve this situation or to not have had it happen in the first place.
People who aren't involved need to sit back and wait for all the facts to be presented. This journal has now given us facts from one side of this story. If the other side decides they are comfortable to allow it to stand as is, well..then we got to go on what we got to go on. If she's uncomfortable to present a counter, I'd just say, well, at one point they were comfortable to go to an admin with their feelings on this (If memory serves me right, there was also a journal made by the alleged on this at the time too, that didn't outright say she was raped either, but was made uncomfortable).
Well sometimes we gotta tell people what we feel and not hold it in and be firm about it so that everyone involved knows where everyone stands.
Me, old guy that I am, would advice against trying for con hookups be you male or female because there are always more emotional strings attached to those situations than you may realize when you get to the morning after part.
Believing her accusations without evidence is no different than believing his defense without evidence. He makes mention of these logs he has, but those aren't evidential of anything either. The fact is by this point, I don't think there is going to be any real evidence to prove or disprove the accusation, and any consideration towards that is a bit of moot. People will either choose to believe one or the other, or neither (or both, if they can somehow reconcile both sides of the argument through some strange personal debate).
[ btw, you can easily make the "innocent till proven guilty" remark to the above, but that only works in a court of law, in the court of public opinion all that goes quite easily right out the window ]
That aside, her accusation isn't without corroboration; one of the girls mentioned in her accusation did come forward, though the rest remained quiet. There were also other remarks made from people within the situation which could be considered. Still, none of this is evidential either, which is why I hold that (outside of taking the case to a court room) we'll never find either side proven one way or the other.
One theme that crops up a few times in your post is "opinion", which is an important factor here. You may be right in some cases that people should just sit back and calm down, but that's not how people work. People will take the information they come across and form an opinion. If they're given enough information towards the opposite opinion they can also change their mind. Either way, opinions are going to be made. Further than that, many people are of the opinion that on the off-chance that the accused is guilty, having him handle the code behind the website and having access to the site's back-end could be problematic. Another concern might be what outside opinion of FA might be with this drama attached to it.
Lastly, you assume that because this whole mess was brought back up (3 years later) and this journal was made the accuser is now somehow obligated to come forward and make a new case for herself. She is no more obligated to comment than Zaush was to make this journal, and at this point I would not blame her for not speaking up anymore than I would have blamed Zaush for not commenting. Either of them commenting can only inevitably become a battleground for the flood of people's opinions facing off. These journals are not some court of law that can or will dole out any justice. Also, she claimed her point was never to cause drama or bring legal retribution, so it's not very surprising that she hasn't commented.
And what did the other girl come forward and say? Where's the evidence of that. Does she say that she too was raped or that she was also talked into having sex? Again, somebody talking you into doing something you later regret doing does not a crime make. It may make that person incredibly persuasive and at least the person who's being talked into doing it incredibly naive.
RAPE is a horrible crime of violence. There has been no evidence even by the accuser of there being any such thing. And as you state, my statement is that people had based their opinion based on an one sided group of statements not even made publicly with no context applied to them of why they were being made fully in the first place, because the person making the statement had no idea that they would become public. So there was never a back and forth given towards the statements to see if they were actually valid. And frankly, that's kinda scary, because if all it takes is one person to say something negative about you, in private, and then have those statements become public knowledge through, frankly, illegal means, and you're left to try to defend them because people are talking them as fact, who would want to have to go through that? Especially if afterwards, the accuser clams up, never says anything and leaves it up to you to try to defend yourself without the opportunity to refute the claims directly to the accuser.
And if the accuser is not obligated to come forward to defend an accusation, then why isn't the accused statements taken as validly as the accuser's? Call me crazy or naive myself, but I believe in justice which is brought about through a full examination of all facts where 2 sides have the chance to have a say in it where their statements are equally weighed. That's not what we got going on now. It's clearly not.
Zaush was put into a situation where he was forced to present a defense to a charge that not even the accuser has directly made. Rape.
Can you think of any thing worst to be accused of (other than murder). I sure can't. But if it was rape then the person raped should come out and flat out say that that is what indeed happened OR have the decency to come out and allow the person incorrectly accused of such an act off the hook by saying so. So yeah, being an American we have a right to face our accuser. I believe in that. Otherwise we live in a land where one person could say anything about you and never have to be questioned on what they say, leaving you to forever have to try to prove your innocence.
Yes, this is the point I was also making. This isn't court, this is public opinion; you can dislike that people are forming opinions, but you disliking that doesn't stop people from doing so. People are going to take what they've learned and react, that is what people do. I'm not sure what part of this you're having a hard time understanding, but hopefully you will figure it out.
"And what did the other girl come forward and say? Where's the evidence of that."
Are you trying to get me to quote third and fourth part here? That would silly; all the information is available, and if you haven't read it then I suggest you do; not to convert your opinion, but so your opinion is informed. As for evidence, I already pointed out several times, nothing in this is evidential on either side, at all.
"there was never a back and forth given towards the statements"
Again, there doesn't have to be. People will take what they have learned and form their own opinions; some people will read one side and disregard the other completely, some people will read both sides, some people won't read either. All of them will form some opinion, whether they wish to voice it or not.
"I believe in justice which is brought about through a full examination"
You quite obviously think your opinion is right and mine is wrong, does our disagreement mean that one of us is not examining the details? Not necessarily, it simply means we've come out of our examinations with two differing opinions. Do you honestly think that if both parties talked it out some reconciliation would be made? There's a likely chance it would just make the current drama even bigger than it currently is.
"Can you think of any thing worst to be accused of"
This is again where you're making personal observations and inserting your personal opinion based on your own feelings while condemning others for doing the same. Just as you have, people are going to form their opinions based on the perspectives they come away from the topic with. You can disagree with them and you can fail to understand where they are coming from, all of that is perfectly normal. To lend some perspective, you say Zaush was put in a situation to defend himself from the accusation of being a rapist; what if it were true though? If it were true then what position was the victim put in? It's all perspective, opinion and personal decision on what you want to take away from it and do with what you've learned. the fact that people disagree with you isn't the end of the world.
It has nothing to do with ego on his part, it is logic. What is there to gain from stepping down, Logically? People who are prone to wanting to go on head hunts don't usually stop even if the other side acquiesced. Getting a job ANYWHERE, hired ANYWHERE to ANY position will be hard for anyone in the unfortunate position of being falsely accused of something like this.
I honestly think that Zaush needs to step down, the energy dispensed having to defend oneself is distracting from actually coding and getting the site update that has been sorely needed for a whole now. I mean, how focused can one be with a volley of people flipping their shit over this controversy? Let someone else have the job, the site update will get done faster and we won't be delayed with the site update."
I find it absolutely ironic that a post about Project Phoenix which started about the administration being more open, was banning and hiding comments that critiqued administrative and design decisions. Since when did the FA staff learn leadership skills from Prime Minister Steven Harper?
While I will respect your opinion for wanting Zaush to step down, I will have to say I feel contrary. I don't want to see people who falsely accuse someone of horrible deeds win, even a inch.
So much time and effort wasted on this stupid issue, I don't care that Zaush was brought on board to be a coder, that's not my concern, my concern is that shit ain't getting done because of this drama, and I, like many frustrated users of FurAffinity, want this damn 2.0 site up and running, we've been teased the 2.0 images for years, YEARS. It shouldn't take YEARS to update a site, but from my observation, there's been a lot of dick waving and finger pointing both internally and externally that shit isn't getting done, and I'm quite frustrated over the fact that nothing is being resolved except to add to the bickering.
If there is more effort focused on drama control than actually going onto site construction, then obviously he is not the one to head the project, because there is going to be a lot of issues brought up that aren't site related that are going to be a distraction, and will continue being a distraction. According to the journal this happened 3 years ago and STILL continues to burn even to this day. This isn't personal to Zaush but if someone that is put in charge of a team is unable to deal with his personal issues interfering with coding progress, then for the good of the project he needs to step aside, keep him as a coder if need be bot someone else who hasn't had this much negative public exposure and possesses extensive web programming knowledge should lead it.
So I'm re-stating my point. I don't care about who did what, I care about "is the site up and running, what is the status of Project Phoenix, are we going to get a concrete timeline as to when the first series of updates for the site will roll out?"
The more Zaush opens his mouth, the more Dragoneer, or any one of Zaush's friends and or white-knighters step up to speak for him, the more damage is being done. I'm sure it'll die down eventually, but in that time, precious time is ticking away and the site still looks horribly outdated, and the mockup for Project Phoenix, as the prototype, looks very cluttered and complicated and gaingly-legged.
Either way, I, like many other furries, will be doing plenty of this for the duration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPXr8SNKaAA
The more Zaush opens his mouth, the more Dragoneer, or any one of Zaush's friends and or white-knighters step up to speak for him, the more damage is being done. I'm sure it'll die down eventually, but in that time, precious time is ticking away and the site still looks horribly outdated, and the mockup for Project Phoenix, as the prototype, looks very cluttered and complicated and gaingly-legged.
Either way, I, like many other furries, will be doing plenty of this for the duration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPXr8SNKaAA
The more Zaush opens his mouth, the more Dragoneer, or any one of Zaush's friends and or white-knighters step up to speak for him, the more damage is being done. I'm sure it'll die down eventually, but in that time, precious time is ticking away and the site still looks horribly outdated, and the mockup for Project Phoenix, as the prototype, looks very cluttered and complicated and gaingly-legged.
Either way, I, like many other furries, will be doing plenty of this for the duration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPXr8SNKaAA
all i can say is if you know deep down you have done something wrong whenever it was, do the right thing and apologise, take the punishment like a man.
Awesome for you for doing this
and for everyone that is jumping ship because of this? regardless of this validity of the information?
Its like members of congress/state officials/the cabinet deciding to leave office because someone new was elected in who ~rolls a d20~ murdered an underage hooker who WASN'T a minority.
It's like really? what makes the rest of this entire fandom sparkle fucking clean? Especially if we don't listen to both sides of things like here with Zaush.
Although things happen here I don't always agree with, I have the choice to leave whenever I want and FA makes it easy to delete my steps behind me and move away. Now I'm waiting to see the other side of the story. And then I'll turn off my PC and probably go down to the pub, have a drink and get on with my life, coming back tomorrow to see what new things have been created for free by lots of people around the world.
Attitudes like the one you display are major contributors to why sexual assault and rape are rarely taken seriously by authorities.
...Yet easy to go to a complete stranger ONLINE mind you trying to slam him and ruin his reputation... I guess that is easy, it worked.
I see no threats or force being used by zaush.
Begging for sex or convincing someone to have sex is not sexual coercion.
She's a woman of free will; if she has some mental disorder that might have comprised her ability to make a conscious decision that he knew about, then there might be a case for all this.
If anything at all this is sexual harassment, even that is pushing it though.
"Sexual harassment is bullying or coercion of a sexual nature, or the unwelcome or inappropriate promise of rewards in exchange for sexual favors."
"Rape is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse, which is initiated by one or more persons against another person without that person's consent."
It's fine to have an opinionated dislike for his actions, but to go as far as to say this was rape? People have a very shallow understanding of how the legal system works. They try to play the judge without any real knowledge of the matter besides a few wikipedia definitions.
noun
1.
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.
"Sexual coercion in animals is the use of violence, threats, harassment, and other tactics by males to help them forcefully copulate with females."
Begging someone to fuck you is in no way violent, and in no way threatening. It may be scummy and disgusting, but it's not criminal.
Coercion is more threating and violent than harassment. Harassment you can say no to, coercion is different.
What do you think the difference between harassment and coercion even is? They are not the same thing I assure you.
http://www.upf.edu/estiu/_pdf/1363_info.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_violence
That fact that you demand "reliable links" when you haven't bothered posting sources for anything previously in our discussion gave me a chuckle. Any points I make are vague inferences. Beautifully argued, that.
This article is NOT a definition, it is someone's OPINION on what should be considered rape. I don't care one bit what someone thinks sexual assault should or should not be, the facts stay the same.
http://www.upf.edu/estiu/_pdf/1363_info.pdf
This article is also not a definition, but a statistic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_violence
Key word being violence huh? Can't have sexual violence without violence now can you. Show me where zaush was being violent while trying to ask her to fuck.
I'm not interested in debating you if you intend to demean me and play the snarky attitude.
http://www.swarthmore.edu/sexual-as.....r-violence.xml
Here is provided a definition of sexual coercion.
Key words being "coercion, unwanted sexual comments or advances".
Opinion does enter into legal proceedings. Just because you disagree doesn't mean a judge or a jury would. That said I don't understand why we're stuck in this rut of discussing the prime legal definition rather than being able to openly debate what we think is right and wrong. Your belief that what Zaush did wasn't rape is your opinion, you're not an authority nor are we in a court proceeding.
According to the accuser, she did feel threatened by Zaush' size and strength and did fear he might act violently. Whether he did act violently or not does not detract from the fear a person might feel towards potential violence.
And the provided link to sexual coercion only subverts your argument;
"Coercion is the use of pressure to compel another individual to initiate or continue sexual activity against an individual’s will. Coercion can include a wide range of behaviors, including intimidation, manipulation, threats, and blackmail. A person’s words or conduct are sufficient to constitute coercion"
Also, I wasn't demeaning you, I was remarking on what gave me a chuckle.
Opinion does enter legal proceeding, and I'm sure with enough money and the right lawyer any one of use could be put in jail for rape. That has nothing to do with the fact that there was no sexual coercion by practical definition given the chat logs provided.
In the accusation, she posits that he was physically trying to move things further, and she tried to get him to stop but was afraid (due to his size and strength) that he might turn violent. On the one hand, he has not threatened her, but on the other hand the possibility of threat is there. Some would say she should fight anyway, others would conclude that if her fighting could lead to physical violence she shouldn't fight.
We agree then that opinion does enter legal proceeding; and that in your opinion there was no sexual coercion. That doesn't stop anyone else from being of the opinion that coercion was plainly present.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape
"Tactics of postrefusal sexual persistence [used are] defined as persistent attempts to have sexual contact with someone who has already refused: This is a convoluted way of saying that the perpetrator continued with the sexual acts after the victim has already said no either before the act occurred, hence the emotional and verbal pressure, or while the act is occurring, hence the physical and verbal pressure."
http://www.fit.edu/caps/documents/S.....ercion_000.pdf
Shall I go on..?
Think you need a solid read of this before continuing on the way you are right now.
It's fairly obvious that he was very nonthreatening and she had consented.
Given the limited evidence, you cannot jump to the conclusion she was raped following this "was it raped" guideline.
Yes means Yes and saying yes in skype is the equivalent of saying Yes on the phone. Just because you don't like said person does not mean that you can slap him with a rape charge, why? Because there is no factual evidence.
Being someone you (or others) do not like is not a crime, or you probably already are ready and willing to brand me as a criminal. Just because he 'sensationalizes' everything as you say, does not make him a criminal. This is his way of dealing with things, this is his personality. People joke about rape all the time, so don't act pious and try to pin a magnifying glass onto Zaush, he isn't the first to do it and he isn't the last and i personally see no problem in it, call me a bastard but as long as you are not joking and actually raping someone or joking about someone raping someone I don't care. If you/someone was actually raped... then I care. Then I get MY pitchfork out and go on a witch hunt.
Just because he 'sensationalizes' everything does not make anything he say less valid on the internet than what she has said on the internet, at least until factual proof comes out.
You say pressured? Did you read the whole log? He asked her repeatedly yes, and while that is pathetic, she eventually said yes. Lets not use buzz words and just because it was on skype does not make the words less potent. In any dictionary, in any sign language... and in any spoken language, Yes equates to yes.
Him joking about rape is just him being insensitive that is not a crime. Trivializing traumatic things is how a lot of people get through events, and call him what you want given the facts, he is not a rapist.
"He called me angrily twice to yell at me about his frustrations that I wasn't comfortable visiting or having sex with him. "
"I was constantly pressured by Zaush into having sex with he and Keovi although I explained to him before I arrived and during my stay that I was not interested."
" I insisted that we use condoms, but he would not. Since he was much larger than me (I am 5'2") I felt like he could become violent if I had chosen to leave at that time. "
I do not know what more you need to know about the original note. Chat logs before the fact is not proof of consent. Period. He pressure him over and over and over until he got a yes. That is coercion. Ferality wanted to leave. Ferality had given their terms. Ferality was scared of leaving, meaning they did not to go through with the act. Adam Wan is a rapist.
Does this Equate to actual Rape? He could have been just that, boasting. Why? I need the context and location, because I know of people that can boast of worst (lie) in front of their friends.
"He called me angrily twice to yell at me about his frustrations that I wasn't comfortable visiting or having sex with him. "
Was this before, or after?
"I was constantly pressured by Zaush into having sex with he and Keovi although I explained to him before I arrived and during my stay that I was not interested."
I've heard word stating the contrary.
" I insisted that we use condoms, but he would not. Since he was much larger than me (I am 5'2") I felt like he could become violent if I had chosen to leave at that time. "
Yea, 'feeling like he could become violent'? Does he have a history of violence? Do we know? Other than being a insensitive jerk, I see no crime other than being taller and larger than her which isn't a crime, we cannot control our height
I do not know what more you need to know about the original note. Chat logs before the fact is not proof of consent. Period. He pressure him over and over and over until he got a yes. That is coercion. Ferality wanted to leave. Ferality had given their terms. Ferality was scared of leaving, meaning they did not to go through with the act. Adam Wan is a rapist.
Wat? I think the term rape implys actual sex happened that was against someones will, so what you are saying is that they did not go through the act? So you just said he wasent a rapist and yet you turned around and said directly that he was?
Secondly everything is a chat log, her stuff and his. Sooooo why are you choosing to believe her story over his? Because the big bad male is always in the wrong? Oh please, I've seen this junk fester in court and MANY innocent men get scarred for LIFE over bullshit that didn't happen.
Not saying that makes it automatically rape, but the chat logs literally cannot show consent unless they happened to be laying next to each other on laptops, deciding to IM instead of talk, right up until the point one or the other 'made the move'. :P
No mean NO. It doesn't mean maybe, it doesn't mean we'll see.
It Means NO.
Once she said no the converation should've been over.
Once she said no the first time, he shouldn't have brought it up again.
That doesn't change the fact that what he did is not rape.
We share the same opinion, but that does not change the facts.
Not everyone is going to be strong willed and you really can't expect that of everyone. Situations are never black and white, hence why there are systems in place. Using the excuse of being "weak willed" is rather appalling to read, to say the least.
Also, I hate to break it to you but if someone says "no" 100x and then finally gives in and says "yes", that does NOT make it willing at all. It's called peer pressure aka being pressured into something that you didn't agree with/to and then being manipulated into finally accepting it's ok. It's human, not weak willed; especially if someone is already damaged emotionally and can't stand up for themselves.
Begging for sex is not wrong, but continuing to do so when they have already been told "no" and still hoping for that small chance of it possibly happen... That is wrong. It's manipulative, repulsive, and just down right not ok makes you seem predatory. That fact that he knew what he was doing, makes it that much more scary to me.
I'd also like to point out that emotions are not "simple, cold, logic". Emotions are by no means logical, nor simple in any way, so you really can't use that to justify your argument. Otherwise we wouldn't have people try to kill someone over something trivial, such as not serving chicken nuggets. That is a real deal, I'm not even joking, there is a video.
I've been reading your comments on here for the past 20 minutes. This one has taken the cake.
I do agree that the way I handle things are different than the way other people would, but that does not make the way they would handle it correct. While I doubt my way is the best, I think people need to see logic which is why I keep trying to shove it in their faces until they calm down and quit using buzz words as if that is going to flip the script. I do understand however what you are saying, we do not know either people in this situation or how strong they are emotionally or what was going through the 'Victim's' mind when she finally said yes, nor how she felt every time she had to say no.
However it isn't a excuse to call someone weak willed, it is a fact that people, we humans need to own up to. We all have weak spots in our will. So asking 100x and finally getting a yes isn't the fault of the person asking the question (unless threats, drugs, or physical force were used).
For example if a person is weak willed enough to eat a whole cake that someone bought for them in one sitting (would be nice right?). Then the problems the next morning that may arise are not the fault of the person who bought, or even designed that cake. I do see how this is a slightly different fish because this cake in question is moving, sentient, the same species, and literally wanting you to indulge but the context is quite the same. In this case the reasonable thing to do would have been to permanently remove yourself from the situation or ship the cake away (I.E: Restraining order maybe?). Unfortunately it seems as though she chose to remove herself from the situation after the fact when she could have done so long before the incident occurred, before sour emotions flared up and she left and apparently through all we know, and she has not had any more involvement with the accused.
Also, I am glad that my comments are a good read for some, even if we don't agree on each point in them. Though I do admit that this post that you are responding to is one of my weaker, I must have been running out of Coffee
Cheers.
As for the actual legal definition, you ought to scroll down. I've already covered this.
Or could it be that you don't have any good way of explaining it?
But no, I'm not insisting that rape has to be violent, there's several violent, threatening, or non-violent ways that rape can be comitted:
(a) Rape. - Any person subject to this chapter who commits a
sexual act upon another person by -
(1) using unlawful force against that other person;
(2) using force causing or likely to cause death or grievous
bodily harm to any person;
(3) threatening or placing that other person in fear that any
person will be subjected to death, grievous bodily harm, or
kidnapping;
(4) first rendering that other person unconscious; or
(5) administering to that other person by force or threat of
force, or without the knowledge or consent of that person, a
drug, intoxicant, or other similar substance and thereby
substantially impairing the ability of that other person to
appraise or control conduct;
is guilty of rape and shall be punished as a court-martial may
direct.
Being that nobody suggested that she was drugged or unconscious, and even did say that he didn't give her alcohol, would eliminate that as a possibility.
An example would be a lawyer that cites non-violent coercion in a rape case. To bring that case closer to the case this journal represents, Zaush' accuser stated she felt pressured by his physical size over her, and feared if she did not comply he might get violent; in this proposed scenario, the accused doesn't actually have to get violent for the act possibly be deemed rape. That aside, her emotional and mental states can also be taken into consideration on judging the case.
The law does spell out non-violent coercion pretty clearly, and it does dictate that it must be a communicated threat. Feeling threatened by someone is not a crime by that person.
What you actually want to look at is section 261 of the California penal code: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/.....N/3/1/9/1/s261
You might find this particular bit, which applies to the entire section, of interest, as it states that a direct threat is not necessary:
(b)As used in this section, "duress" means a direct or implied threat of force, violence, danger, or retribution sufficient to coerce a reasonable person of ordinary susceptibilities to perform an act which otherwise would not have been performed, or acquiesce in an act to which one otherwise would not have submitted. The total circumstances, including the age of the victim, and his or her relationship to the defendant, are factors to consider in appraising the existence of duress.
I know there many different situation speaking from experience,this just didn't make sense to me.
Now all we have to do is decide who is telling the truth on an internet he-said-she-said scenario! That won't be difficult at all.
One of the larger obstacles to positive progress in the world is how prevalent the average attitude of 'he appears smarter than people I know, he must be a deceiver!' has become.
It is entirely likely and plausible that this journal was composed very carefully, and after re-reading the logs involved, which would not have been the first time he's had reason to go over all these events. Have you ever had an event happen that seemed unimportant at the time, but due to later events, you had to repeatedly go over the memory and/or re-tell the story? Eventually it does become a very clear memory, especially the greater the significance the event comes to hold.
Even if you yourself have never experienced this, that does not mean it doesn't happen. People do come to revisit specific memories for various reasons, and it does lead to the memory becoming much more readily recalled. Especially when you have saved logs of the conversations surrounding it.
The fact that his recollection is phrased so carefully, and is supported by the provided evidence, is not evidence of falsehood. Using the logic you're applying, the more clearly a person's innocence is proven, the more the proof must be falsified and fake. :/
What you wrote was very well written.
It has gotten to the point where there is just too much here-say and everything is becoming convoluted. This has certainly become convoluted. The fact that the logs are being given out on a voluntary basis, and can be in fact edited to fit any narrative is highly suspect to me. It took three days of careful preparation in order to publish this journal along with the chat logs. Which to me states a lot of careful thought and planning went into it.
There is a point where in any court of law people come up and attest to the persons character. Testifying to a persons character does have an effect on the conclusions made from those judging a case.
The fact that the question exists should be enough for a person with common sense to step down.
The reason the term 'witch-hunt' is used to describe that mentality is that during the witch hunts, an accusation meant guilt. The incredibly faulty presumption that "no truly innocent person could possibly ever give anyone a reason to falsely accuse them" was the justification for throwing the need for evidence out the window. People were burned at the stake, drowned, etc, on nothing more than an accusation, because to some people, burning an innocent is more acceptable than the slightest chance of letting the guilty go free.
Zaush has given people plenty of reason to find fault in his character. Being seen as a douche doesn't mean it's okay to just accept every other negative claim that can be made.
The fact is, simply being qualified to do the job needed is not enough to get a person on board to actually fix this place. Dragoneer has his own laundry list of flaws, and those often add up to being the obstacles to MANY previous attempts and efforts by countless people who wanted to help this site improve and progress. For any person to have any chance of being of use or benefit, they have to first manage to somehow get past all the quirks of Dragoneer that have prevented anyone from doing so up to now. For whatever reasons, Zaush has achieved that.
If he steps down, the site stays as it is for however many more years. Qualified and willing people will throw themselves at Dragoneer only to bounce off, as they always have.
If your interests are about the accusations, then dismissing the provided evidence because of the possibility of it being falsified means there IS no form of evidence that could possibly be provided other than a signed and notarized consent form from the accused. Requiring the accused to prove their innocence and/or taking accusation as proof from the accuser is the opposite of what civilization has come to regard as Just, and is definitively 'witch-hunt' mentality.
If your interests are "what's best for FA," then ANY PERSON with ANY amount of capability who can manage the feat of getting Dragoneer to fucking let them do anything at all to make positive change to this site IS what's best for FA. The only thing FA has going for it is sheer weight of the absence of momentum. As in, an object at rest will stay at rest. People only stay here because everyone else is here, and they don't move until given a reason to move. Without actual progress and improvement and CHANGE to this site to give people REASON TO STAY as opposed to simply lack of reason to move, then time will pass and they will continue to give one reason to move after another until the "most everyone is on FA' ceases to be a factor and that is when the site will die.
Many would argue that would be better for the community. But you're saying your interests are 'what's best for FA,' so allowing the status quo to remain, pushing for someone who MIGHT be able to fix things to step down just because an accusation was made, is not in the best interests of FA.
Christ if you're not a lawyer, ever consider being one?
I'm gonna remain neutral on the subject, but I'll say a lot of people had good points and good arguments.
But again, you did well with your responses. :3
What good is it?
Well I don't know? Not be called a rapist. Stay on the FA admin team. Be accepted in the community as a whole?
I guess when you think about it, he really has no reason (sarcasm). Not to mention it has taken all weekend for this to show up. So he has had a lot of time.
I doubt he wants to be accepted by those who accuse him of being a rapist with no evidence and without taking both sides of the story into account.
If this were to go to court ( which it won't), you don't think that the originals can be recovered? Of course they can. He'd be in extra trouble for tmpering with evidence, had a crime actually been committed.
Because being a coder and building a site from the ground up doesn't involve having administrative access eh?
I dont care whether or not he did what he did. Well I do to some extent to be honest but not enough wherein I am going to fully call him out as being a rapist. That's not for me to discern.
What I have said repeatedly in the past is this;
If you love FA, and want to do better for it. Step down. If you feel that strongly about this site work in the background without the name and recognition. Too easy. That is unless you're egotistical.
If you feel so strongly about it, take the lady to court for slander. (But we all know he wont do that)
Clear your name. Be done with it.
At the moment he's Rob Fording it. Just stay in. It will pass like everything else does. Shows a lack of character not to mention a lack of growth.
Has he proven he could code? No. Show me something.
If they wanted something substantial. They would have made an announcement asking for coders from the community regardless of name or buddy status to apply.
There are so many quiet furries out there with such wonderful abilities. Yet were not given the chance to show their worth. Just because they weren't all buddy buddy with one of owners/admins.
As in three year old rape accuastaions. Think of this.
You have a child. You need day care. You have two options. One being a care taker whom was accused of rape ten years ago, never convicted. Or another who is completely free of accusations and slander. Who do you pick?
ONFG I loled so hard at this. This pretty much sums up almost everyone that is involved in this fuckfest.
And I hate to inform you but that does includes you too. As from what i understand you would have "Read" an accusation, and must have believed it.
So glad I can take a back seat in all this a laugh at it all.
The notes starting all of this were obtained unwillingly, and with great effort unbeknownst to either party. Which to me states that they were published in their original form.
Zaush is offering his chat logs, which in my opinion has given the accused ample time to edit such logs. Not saying he did anything. I just have a hard time accepting them as gospel. Mixed in with the fact he is not only fighting for his reputation but also possible legal action. (if it shall every occur)
I'm not a drama fur and i don't really care what others get up to. And from my brief reading of the situation (the rape scandal part)
A "supposid" note was sent to the admin (who shouldn't really have been told as it wasn't his place at the time) - i say supposed as the note was attained via hacking thusly is not verifiable in any way and may have been edited by numerous sources with malicious intent, including but not limited to. Either party, trolls and the anti-furry scene that only wish to create a scene or a large amount of drama.
Now if let put this into a different situation and I now say, for example. I have hacked your account and found a note written by you to Randomfur365 saying that you killed someone and buried the body in random location x.
Now lets play the scene exactly like it happened with zaush, you're fucked. The end. mob mentality has just deemed you guilty and you should be thrown in jail.
Im not saying zaush is innocent of anything and neither am i saying he is guilty of anything. there is NO factual evidence supporting either story that couldn't have been edited in some way or form thus both sides of the argument are flawed. Thusly anyone siding on any side is basing all of their so called proof on possible forged 'facts'
In this situation the balance is in favour of zaush as by the law of most countries a person is innocent until proven guilty. If it is however true, rather then attacking zaush everyone should be convincing the "victim" to take this to the proper authorities where they will carry out a Proper investigation of the facts and then charges brought forward rather then drown her and if she dies then oh dear she wasn't a witch, scenario. (using the witch as warlock didn't feel right for that)
My argument is what if it was you in Zaush's place and your were innocent but you're still call a rapist, how would you feel. :)
Objectively looking at the situation, I would not take anyones side due to the lack of verifiable proof. I consider hacked information nothing more then rumor.
Any who -hugs and kisses all-
Not wait three years until its convenient to me and only when it is to secure a position I truly desire.
All hersay and rumor to me
I like this.
Ps I love arguing factually with people that don't boil it down to "becos" and attempt to find any excuse to further back a failing argument. Or manage to dismantle my side of the argument.
<3
Now, I could be wrong, she may have said she was raped (those exact words), but I don't recall that being the case 3 years ago, or even now.
I personally don't jump to conclusions until all evidence is presented by both sides, so that I can make an actual fully informed decision on the matter and until that happens, the accused is assumed so and the "victim" is alleged. Because these are serious charges that shouldn't be taken lightly and definitely shouldn't be ruled by gut emotional reaction based on rumor.
That's it, that's all. If he cant paint himself in an innocent light let the courts decide that. If he is unwilling to do so, step down. Or at least take a break from the coding thing until otherwise proven innocent. We have been waiting since 2007 right? What's another year or two. He has everything to gain from such.
Already his presence is causing people to leave. Why not step back. Let the dust settle. Bring the chick in for slander in front of the courts? Only if he feels that confident about it? The reason why he hasn't is because I guarantee you, somewhere in the back of his mind there is some doubt. Some small thing that he knows he did wrong.
Which is why we are all at this stand still. His ego is reigning, and Neer from what I can understand couldn't admit fault even if caught red handed.
And how can he let a court decide anything if there never were any actual legal charges brought up against him? It's the definition of trying to prove a false negative.
Frankly, I honestly don't know why he would have wanted to volunteer to do the coding in the first place. The 'furry community' (as many people seem to call it) rarely shows appreciation for people who bring them things free of charge based on their own hard work. So why he'd want to use whatever skills he has to give something to people who could personally care less about the effort is beyond me anyway. I'd advice him to not do it because, there's no real gain from it anyway. There wouldn't have been so much of a thank you for the effort because someone would find something to complain about whatever would be done anyway. It's the nature of the internet and people who use it and are used to getting things free of any effort on their own part.
All I said was that it's for the greater good. That's it, that's all.
However, I too actually do believe he should step down from doing the coding, but not for the reasons you state, but more so, why bother helping those who don't want your help? I'm sure there are far more productive things he could find to do than wasting his time coding a furry website.
Then I accuse you of being a rapist.
"Already his presence is causing people to leave. Why not step back. Let the dust settle. Bring the chick in for slander in front of the courts? Only if he feels that confident about it? The reason why he hasn't is because I guarantee you, somewhere in the back of his mind there is some doubt. Some small thing that he knows he did wrong.
Which is why we are all at this stand still. His ego is reigning, and Neer from what I can understand couldn't admit fault even if caught red handed. "
The reason why we are a standstill, is because idiots are continuing to say "fuck the facts, I heard the word rape!" It has nothing to do with ego, have you considered how hard it will be for him to get any work because of these largely unproven accusations? (unproven because there is no legal documentation)
I am not Zaush's friend, and I really don't aim to. My aim is to try to help avert a social witch hunt and add my voice to that of logic and reason... which sometimes can be wrong or insensitive but it usually is true.
Anyway, Cheers
Old news is old. (and for the outraged people quitting now all of a sudden, it was sorta out there in public that he was helping with the coding back in December, why it's now all of a sudden news is beyond me as well).
I think I have given all the fucks I can give to this buddy. Pleasure chatting though :3
But, more seriously -- it seems to me he's done this dance before, much closer to the time of the incident where such recall would be more acceptable (but still subject to suspicion, no doubt), and that some of the points involve chat log transcripts, and journals and notes and such, which is why they're redacted from the journal entry and available only upon direct request through Skype vs. posted on a site somewhere, which FA's policy regulates. So it seems reasonable that recalling these facts isn't remarkable. Whether it's colored or not, edited or not, so on and so forth, is more debatable, but I think using the volume of detail as an argument against the validity of the detail weakens your stance.
Mind you, I'm not saying you're wrong or right in what you believe. I acknowledge that you're fully entitled to your opinion on what happened, and so I'm not trying to convince you one way or another. Besides, you've clearly already made up your mind, so that would be pointless even if I had any interest in doing so. I'm merely suggesting that pursuing this "too many facts" angle does not strengthen your overall case, and may well weaken it.
I can watch tv shows from the 80's in my head, and remember codes from games I haven't played since the early 90's
Ro laren is the code to access...commander level difficulty for the Star Trek:The Next Generation game for the classic brick gameboy, by the way~
Also what you just mentioned above isn't really anything exceptional memory wise.
As for the project Phoenix screenshot, I do honestly hope something like that doesn't come to fruition, as it looks like Weasyl ripoff with a pretty, but useless, UI, cropped thumbnails, and little to no information. What there is now works, in my opinion, extremely well, short of missing a few features like folders and (ignorable, so as to prevent someone spamming them every hour all night) streaming notifications and auctions.
What I do care about was how it was handled. Dragoneer posting on twitter about his version of events instead of being silent or having better PR control. Him "forgetting" about the group (who was also shitty and disorganized) who were attempting to rebuild the site before (concurrently with??) Zaush. It's a clusterfuck of people who are overwhelmingly too inept to run a site of this magnitude.
I left FA (still lurk, yes) months ago before all this nonsense. The site was slow and unpredictable, it wasn't mobile responsive, and the organization of content was a joke. That people are still able to generate revenues and run full fledged businesses through this site is a miracle. I guess the audience is patient enough. I'm tired of having to keep quiet or mumble whenever anthro/furries come up with my friends, since THIS crap is what's representing us to the world. I want to be able to proudly link people to a regularly updated, full of features site like DeviantArt when I'm showing off the art I do or explaining what the rest of the fandom does or is like.
This whole issue further solidifies why I left. Dragoneer? If any remote chance you read this, enroll in a PR/leadership course at your local community college at least, please. You desperately need it. You're an offensive joke.
But yeah, I do agree, management has handled all of this pretty darn poorly. No denying that fact.
They have to publicly acknowledge what they did wrong and what they aim to do to improve going forward. And not in a BP "I'm sowwy" kind of style, actually admit to having an ignorant and terrible attitude and approach to this whole situation, acknowledge the deleted tweets and other statements, state what their official stance is and how they plan to improve going forward. All that will only help them in the end.
The press will do it for you.
I think it's very important for people on both sides of this to not forget the big things that each side does appear to forget and thus angers the other side/fuels their dismissiveness even more:
1. Rape does happen, a lot, with no way to prove it, and an unacceptable amount of guilty people do go scott free, if their victims even ever come forward at all,
2. No matter how bad the above is, or how frequently it happens, removing the need for proof before assigning guilt is still not ever going to be a Just or acceptable option.
People wanting to see rapists punished are good people, and people NOT wanting to see someone destroyed wrongfully are also good people, and there's a lot of both sides letting their good intentions make them miss the valid points motivating the other side's not-always-valid words and attitudes.
And you're right, I once watched a documentary here in Britain about rape and they said on there about 90% of cases get thrown out due to lack of evidence. Sad but the truth. It's sad because a lot of guilty men (and women) get away with it. Some women are evil enough to make a false rape claim. Unfortunately my half sister was one. She falsely accused my best friend of rape and(cause it got thrown out due to lack of evidence) later confessed it was false just to get back at him for hurting her after he broke up with her.
Problem is, people using their personal experience or that of friends/loved ones to dictate their presumptions about other cases is kindof what both sides are doing. Some presume accusations are false because they've seen that, others presume unpunished guilt because that's been >their< experience or exposure.
Not dogging you, dude, just making a general point, hoping maybe some of the more worked-up people see it and think about it and chill out a bit, y'know?
To the people who want you to step down, FA NEEDS an overhaul. If you step down, someone has to step up, because FA will die if no one fixes it, and so far no one's done it. The fact that you're offering to is great.
The fact that people can't get over something that might have been done 3 years ago is a sad factor of mob mentality. I stay out of furry drama (or drama in general) because I know exactly how much BS it is. What happened, happened between you and whoever else. That affects me absolutely ZERO when it comes to who codes the website on which I store my pics.
And for anyone who thinks this is bull, lemme put it this way: I still use a certain site whose designer and head coder tried to rape me. Because it's a GOOD SITE.
So furry drama or not, don't step down. If you can help FA, do it because you can. Let these drama whores rail like they do until the next thing comes along.
--
My perspective, to put it simply, is this: On one side you have an individual who may or may not have committed a gross violation of someone's self (Zaush); on the other side, however, you have a lot of people (the Anti-Zaush crowd) who have absolutely committed gross violations of the self against many, many others, including myself.
I'm far more likely to feel sympathy for someone who has even a chance of being innocent, than I am for people who've shown that they are willing to hurt anyone who disagrees with them.
I know exactly how the furry drama baloney goes. I've been under attack before (though not for sexual deviance) for a simple misunderstanding turned into something bigger by the court of public opinion and idiots who didn't know the full story.
To the people who want you to step down, FA NEEDS an overhaul. If you step down, someone has to step up, because FA will die if no one fixes it, and so far no one's done it. The fact that you're offering to is great.
The fact that people can't get over something that might have been done 3 years ago is a sad factor of mob mentality. I stay out of furry drama (or drama in general) because I know exactly how much BS it is. What happened, happened between you and whoever else. That affects me absolutely ZERO when it comes to who codes the website on which I store my pics.
And for anyone who thinks this is bull, lemme put it this way: I still use a certain site whose designer and head coder tried to rape me. Because it's a GOOD SITE.
So furry drama or not, don't step down. If you can help FA, do it because you can. Let these drama whores rail like they do until the next thing comes along.
BTW thats a beautifull rendition of FA in that picture.. id love for it to be implemented seriously.
I for sure ain't moving to weasyl, I never saw it as being friendly to commissioners/non-artists.
Ugh, now I gotta go take a shower.
its kinda as if someone were to ask you "Cake or Death" what would you answer?
the admins and zaush could have handled this situation with much more class than they did. people were initially put off by the situation itself but i didn't see everyone jumping ship until dragoneer made comments defending zaush. regardless of how i feel about this, i think the professional thing neer to do was not voice his opinion, at all.
same for you, zaush. i don't need police records or a trial to know that you're an egotistical douche. your behavior has said it all.
Keep up the good work Zaush.
"Can we have sex?"
"No."
"Can we have sex?"
"No."
"Can we have sex?"
"No."
repeat this for a few days.
"Can we have sex?"
"Fine if it will shut you up!"
To me... it is more pitiful than problematic and I find that type of situation funny. Saying Yes, and feeling bad about it afterwards does not give ANYONE free reign to call it Rape (well you can, but legally you just voided your right to call it rape), and twisting the words as people want to do... Calling it "sexual harassment" and then "Sexual Coercion" to give it a new 'buzz word' feel does not change the facts.
Did she willingly at ANY point walk into having sex with him and during the act she was fully willing?
If you answered Yes: Then no Rape happened.
If you answered No!: In this case, check the facts.
Now, call it what you want, but if you see a hot woman [or dude] out there that you really want to get with, you are going to ask her multiple times in most cases right (unless you are really lucky, then I congratulate you ) ? Is that in and of itself rape? Did you just rape her? Coerced her into having sex, maybe. Sexually harass her? Did she tell you "Get away freak!"? if not, then you weren't Harassing her to a point where she felt threatened.
I don't offer much but if you need someone to talk to, I'll be online to talk to.
SJW's want that planet that's 57.5 Light years from here, Cardassia, where the law is guilty until proven innocent
This
not to snub you of course, but to avoid drama.
I mean, you don't hear about the personal lives of every coder on Facebook who mangles features on a daily basis. :P
Also, if you can count only 5% of FA is leaving ;) Sounds about right to me. Weasyl can keep the drama whores.
Perhaps grow up and get over youself. you have your opinion, keep it to yourself because no one else cares about how you feel/think.
This is all just a misunderstanding that got outta hand because of people who just want something to bitch about
>"Fucking rape apologists!"
AWOOGA AWOOGA!!! SJW DETECTED! AWOOGA AWOOGA!!!
Its odd, how people were slamming him for not bringing up proof, and yet now that he does... they claim it isn't good enough. This reminds me of the whole Obama scandal in America, with the republicans clamoring for his birth certificate of all things, and when he DOES show it and omits some of the things people can use to do identity theft... they cry and moan that it isn't enough and continue being the sheeple they are.
Seriously, ask for the Chat logs. There is no issue with it, if you want to know what was in the gaps he isn't hiding any information from you or anyone and presenting everything he can at the table.
As far as his fanbase attacking, everyone with a modicum of popularity will always have people mindlessly defending and assaulting them It is just logic so I see no issue with that, sure you and I have NONE of that and if someone wanted to accuse us of something horrible we probably would be booted from the community.
You can edit text based information easily enough. Meaning: That either her statements or his could have been changed to show whatever they wanted them to say. Using either of these as evidence against someone is a bit silly.
You people say that Chat logs can be altered or taken out of context, and not usable as proof...
EVERYTHINGS IN TEXT
EVERYTHINGS A CHAT LOG!
Those notes? A Chat log!
This conversation, In Text!
Honestly i am going to need more coffee if I am to keep myself sane. All you are doing is taking two apples and saying one isnt good enough, I'll have this one, I like the color red and then ignoring the fact that surprisingly the other apple is red.
(Plus, has she, herself, actually said she was 'raped' by Zaush or is that the furry conclusion that started and spread in the typical furry rumor mill fashion?)
/sarcasm
I try not to make assumptions about people's motives. Me pesonally, I had no idea, but referring to 'him' as 'he' wants to be (using quotes so you know I'm not referring to Zaush when I say he), is no big deal now that I know. I'd assume an apology though would follow on assuming wrongly towards me though.
I'm not faulting individuals that genuinely don't know; it's the people that know, but think it's 'confusing' so they refuse to respect Ferality enough to at least use the correct pronoun. I've met so many people that do not identify with the gender they were assigned at birth and I've seen how hurtful it is to them when they are referred to incorrectly PURPOSEFULLY. So I find people doing that very disrespectful.
And I'd also like to be clear that I'm not saying that what happened to 'him' did or didn't happen, but the problem is, it's not really clear what 'he' believes did or didn't happen because all the information that people are going on from 'his' perspective is what was said in leaked notes, which do not contain the charge, directly from him, what everyone else says happened. It would be clearer if the information had more direct context to what Ferality actually feels happened, but without any actual statement made, it creates a cloud of uncertainty and the public is stuck with the only evidence available, those leaked notes and Zaush's presented account.
I personally feel, in the best interest really for both of them, something is said that would nip this in the bud one way or another. If Ferality feels happened, himself, what everyone believes happened, make a statement. If people are taking the comments in the leeks more out of context than it seemed, clear it up.
Cause if it's true, then yeah, Zaush would deserve all the scrutiny such a person would deserve and rightly so. If no, then he should be let be and get on with it.
(Either way though, I don't think his behavior in the situation was becoming of an adult anyway, but I'm old fashion like that, but having bad behavior is not equal to being accused of one of the most ultimate worst crimes).
Fuck law! Fuck due justice! Fuck Evidence! He's guilty cause you said so!
Fun fact: Even Judge Dredd obeys the law
...you still haven't convinced me that you're not part of the lynch mob. Sorry.
But I will leave it with Thomas Paine: "Time makes more converts than reason."
I'm not interested in having a debate with a closed door. Good day.
Call me a bastard, call me not understanding. However at least get a fucking restraining order on someone if you feel so harassed.
I don't know if he's guilty or not, nor do I really care that much. But there are victims even if people aren't proven guilty. Hell, there may be that nothing criminal happened and she'd still be a victim here.
If this is such a serious thing, then it should be discussed by authorities and courts, not by people who are trying to be noble.
If he's not guilty, it's not fair that his reputation is being ruined by drama llamas who were not, are not, and never will be personally involved.
Sorry, all this drama is forcing me to become somewhat humorous. :I
Why not? Why should a person not be able to make a statement based on observation based on outside reality. Why is so intrinsically important to preserve the delusions of people? I literally can't wrap my mind around this notion. If reality disagrees with you, you have no right to demand that others walk around you on egg shells to preserve your delusion, that's unhealthy as fuck to yourself and to the people around you. If I'm convinced that I am Napoleon, does that make it so? You know what it is called if you are really really convinced off something that has no basis in reality? Insanity, that's what it is called.
http://www.bpdresourcecenter.org/
I'm outright stating it.
(Also, it was totally just a lucky guess, I can't believe I was actually RIGHT on that one, wow)
But hey, I'm sick, what to I know, derp-derp! =B
Especially one as utterly destructive as BPD.
...okay, I lied, I actually do have sympathy for you. ;P
Anyway, I cannot stress how imperative that it is you get active treatment. Without it, you will continue to harm yourself and others, and you're unfortunately at a very high risk for suicide. =/ I'd hate for anyone to take their own life for any reason, or hurt someone, especially when there are options for help.
That's far more important than this stupid FA drama, wouldn't you agree?
It sounds like you have a lot personally invested in the topic of mental illness; presumably you or someone close to you has BPD, since it seems like my comments bothered you.
Check here, please: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5435527/
Now, if my assumption is totally unfounded and off-base, then I apologize, sincerely and completely.
And now you're being condescending to me - another person you don't know - and assuming an awful lot about my mental state just because I called you out for being rude.
And please. I didn't attack you, I was responding to your unbelievably rude comment, but feel free to clutch your pearls about someone calling you out on your presumptuousness.
You're telling me that... giving someone you don't even know unsolicited and unwanted input on their personal life, assuming a lot about their mental state and thoughts, and doing this all in public is a bad thing?
WOW THE IRONY
I've got no more to say on the subject. I hope you rethink your approach to "help" and "concern" next time, because you're not providing either. You're just being disingenuous.
Have fun with yourself, hopefully things improve for you.
It's just amazing how people who love to blame victims also love to play the victim.
Since you want to think me this slavering deranged mental cripple who "doesn't know she has a problem" or "is in denial/thrives off the attention", I'm just going to tell you to go fuck yourself. This line of discussion is finished, whether you wish it to be or not.
I don't use the word 'victim' unless there's actually 100% evidence there is a victim based on the testimony of both sides. "Has he/she been through enough". One could argue he/she hasn't really been through anything because all responsibility has been shifted to the accused where they have to attempt to disprove charges that the alleged hasn't even made.
Tell you what, you show where rape actually happened, I'll be all on your side. Show a statement where the calm and the word is made or disprove what was written as the course of events in this journal as false, I'll pick up my torch with you. But right now it's a one sided affair with evidence provided only by one party.
If the victim, in question, doesn't WANT to stand up and fight this (either because he wants to just forget it ever happened or because they genuinely can't handle the stress), we have to respect that. I don't LIKE it, but I can respect it. But to be perfectly honest, I don't need her testimony to know a sexual predator when I see one. The way he reacted to the leaked note when it first appeared, how readily and enthusiastically he went out of his way to publicly shame and slam said person, the way he encouraged his fanbase to attack her, the way he continued (and still continues now) to sexually harass OTHER individuals within this fandom, his complete disregard for personal boundaries and the definition of the word "no" ... That's all I really need to make an informed enough opinion that he's a sleazy womanizer that shouldn't be within 10 miles of a female, ever. He delights in exploiting the unassertive and those with low self-esteem, and feels entitled to anyone he's attracted to (even having zero reservations of bad-talking someone's relationship, to their face, when a significant other is between him and who he wants to fuck). He's a disgusting human being, pure and simple, and I deem him a monster based on THAT, alone.
Combining all of that WITH the alleged victim's leaked note...? I find it fell difficult to even BEGIN to dissuade myself from believing that it very much happened. Zaush is MORE than capable of doing what he's been accused of. There's no doubt at all about that.
We don't know if Ferality expressed concerns or apprehensions directly to Zaush, the leaked notes don't say or imply that "he" did. Right now the most we have as far as facts go are either Zaush's side of the story, a leaked journal where no formal charge of rape is actually made, but implied talking into having sex (which if you talk someone into doing anything, you have convinced them to do it willingly at that given moment of time), and second hand statements for other female artist, who don't, themselves go as far as to claim rape.
Now. am I saying that kind of behavior is acceptable. No. I've told Zaush that directly in other comments here and actually right at him. I personally would never encourage anyone to partake in such casual sexually activities like he did then , because I'm much more conservative in my beliefs about sexual relations and have, admittedly probably an old fashion way of thinking that it's better when confined to 2 committed people and not in open relationships. But being sexually aggressive in social interactions with women, being a big over egoed about how you go about doing it, does probably make him come off looking like a social womanizer, but it doesn't rise to the ultimate claim of "RAPE". It just feel that word is inappropriately being used right now and diminishes true rape victims.
Some people believe thinking this way is thinking like a "Rape-apologist", but unless the alleged victim 'himself' comes out and actually says "I was raped by Zaush", i don't think it's fair for people to immediately go there with that accusation. And I think it's factually accurate to say that Ferality has never come out and many any direct public statement anywhere about this topic ever. All the info we have from him are from the leaks.
If I'm wrong, I'm more than willing to say, ok, you've showed me the evidence, you're correct. But that's what I'm waiting on to see before I, personally, come to any conclusion one way or another. Judgements and conclusions are best made when all the facts have been presented and can be examined. It's fair for both parties that way. But just going on hearsay and unchallenged accusations is dangerous for everyone involved and shouldn't be made by either camp. People who might be harassing Ferality should stop until he feels ready to make a statement and people against Zaush should reserve judgement until all the facts are in. Because let's face it, if an accusation by someone can be made against another person and then the person who makes the accusation never has any responsibility to support their calms with some sort of facts, that puts ALL OF US in danger to be accused of anything by anyone with no way to defend ourselves.
I'm with ya sister! He's not been convicted of rape, but we can't trust him, why? Well, cause somebody said they got raped by him! Thus we can never trust him never again even if he is never charged!
Down with logic! Down with due process! Lets all run on emotions! Fuck letting him defend himself, lynch him now!
*One of your other posts, saying don't pick a side* yet you are very clearly picking a bloody side, unlike you I looked at all the chat logs, the only thing I found is she made some bad decisions and he was a whiny puss.
I'm -DAMN- ok with defending the accused, cause that's what he is, ACCUSED, the law is "Innocent until proven guilty" not "Guilty until proven innocent", you're trying to tell me that HER opinion is more valid than his, simply because she's a woman?
Do you know a great deal of woman lie about rape all the time? But no no, we need to take all their comments at face value! Men are all rapist pigs! Trial by jury is a sham, it should be trial by social media!
P.S.: You said you're going to leave, so leave, piss off, yet you're still here making posts. Take your fucking ball and go home.
I think, I'll let someone far more brilliant, suave and all out magnificent than me, you or any other member of this community answer this question:
"it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer" - Benjamin Franklin, Works 293 (1970), Letter from Benjamin Franklin to Benjamin Vaughan (14 March 1785)
That statement there is all I need to evaluate all this. It's an epitome of morality, rationality and all that is good in humanity.
just how other people have said.. Innocent until proven guilty. There is no physical proof that anyone was raped or that rape ever even happened... in the court of law.. evidence is everything... and yeah people can give that argument that "It may have been just some kid who was embarrassed to speak up" well then that person was fucking raised wrong because if I was ever raped you damn well better believe Id go straight to the proper authorities and let everyone know as well. These notes are all out of context and cannot be used as proof because of how easily it is to edit/change them. Please before you get on your milk box and preach please please please I beg you.... read the facts
They don't want to relive the experience (which they'd have to as they give their complaint to the authorities)
They expect that they wouldn't be believed
The very common act of victim blaming/slut-shaming (which is happening right here on FA actually; "what were you wearing;" "you wanted it, you were sending signals;" "you shouldn't have been a tease then," etc.)
Fear of further harm to oneself or one's loved ones
The dragging of the mud and/or past sexual or emotional or medical history by the courts if the victim is put on the stand on the witness (in spite of statutes, known as rape shield laws, in the U.S. and Canada outlawing or limiting such cross-examination being done by a defense attorney)
Wow, my typing is off today. Sorry!
I feel like I could be a potential victim.
It's to side with NO ONE AT ALL.
There is nothing but allegorical proof on either side.
It's really damaging for someone who's dealing with the emotional trauma of being accused of rape. The falsely accused are being triggered left and right from the callouse comments people are making. Why can't people just silence themselves when they have an opinion that isn't mine? Do people really not stop to think how their "impartial opinion" may sound when read by someone whose gone through the trauma of false accusations...?
Who's to say which side has the truth. Is Zaush really the victim of false accusation?
The point is that we don't know, and it's not our place to side with ANYONE.
Am I right? XD
No. That does NOT happen. Very, very, very, VERY rarely is someone utterly and completely traumatized as a human being for falsely being accused of sexually abusing someone. There go through a rough spot sometimes, but they recover, life goes on, and people forget the accusation ever happened. But surviving a sexual abuse only to have EVERY person you tell discredit you, call you a liar, question every possible thing you did or didn't do to try and prove that you're making it up, verbally being attacked for "daring to accuse someone they like/respect" ... you REALLY believe that doesn't fuck them the hell up, and discourages other victims from wanting to speak up? Because THAT'S the treatment they can expect...? You truly see NOTHING wrong with this, at all?
I do see something wrong about accusing victims of being liars.
I also see something wrong about accusing people like Zaush of being liars.
The fact is that there is no reputable evidence for either side.
You can't tell one side (the people suggesting Zaush is innocent) to silence themselves without telling the other side (the people suggesting Zaush is guilty) to also silence themselves.
Doesn't that seem unfair to you?
There are a lot of predators out there, and plenty of people willing to pretend to be victims in order to get something out of you.
Trust me. I look into this sort of thing for fun.
I'm not saying that's what happened here.
I'm just saying that nobody knows, and that the practice of automatic side-siding is pretty poor policy.
G'night!
what...
that is stupid
youth doesnt need to be taught 'dont rape people', just like how we dont teach 'dont kill people', 'dont steal from people', 'dont kill animals owned by other people' and other things
rape is illegal, so we do teach our youth not to rape, because it is illegal, just like those other things i said
yes, 20 years ago rape was more accepted, but it has been fought against and rape is illegal and a bad thing, and now sometimes rape accusations are the things that are fake, and they ruin lives
if we lived under the rule of christianity or islam then rape wouldnt be illegal, or would just have a fine or something like those old stupid laws, that is more of a rape culture, but then again, women were pretty much possessions back then
rape also ruins lives, i am not saying that rapists dont get away with it, and many rapes are not taken to the police, both of those things happen, but so does false acusations, and so do small false accusations to damage the reputation of someone
the 'learn hot to not get raped' is like classes in learning how to avoid getting mugged, learning how to avoid getting robbed, learning how to keep yourself and your belongings safe, i got taught how to protect my home, and things which will make robbers less likely to want to rob from my home
does that mean we have a theft culture? the lesson being taught isnt 'dont steal from people' instead it is 'put locks on your doors and protect your possessions', we even have insurance to cover theft, we have more of a 'theft culture' more than a 'rape culture'
but, we do teach people not to steal, because it is illegal
just like rape
your post is really silly =3
but yeah, it would be good for society to treat people equally, not caring about orientation or gender identity, that would be cool
Well no shit, why would you tell a mob of people already doing it that you had that happen to you? It's likely that mob of people will start it all over again.
Not much different, but I don't really see much of that happening here. Unless you consider the lack of undeniable evidence that points either way to be defending?
I read a lot of comments on this thread, trust me on this. I genuinely did not see many posts doing that (maybe I'm blind?). The vast majority I saw were:
1) Humour on drama.
2) "I don't care"
3) People making unsubstantiated claims against Zaush.
4) People arguing against those that point out the unsubstantiated claims as being substantiated through the use of non sequitur arguments.
I did not see really many of the arguments of the sort like "she was asking for it" (I don't even recall seeing that phrasing at all anywhere).
> ALL sorts of disgustingly insensitive and vile remarks.
I've been receiving a few of those for being uncompromising in my neutrality on the issue - I refuse to believe one way or another unless there is something that is substantiated, otherwise it's just Internet comments and potentially massive libel people are creating.
I've also been the target else where in FA of libellous comments for this, which didn't really help the case of those trying to convince me and others there is merit to their 'facts' on the issue.
> This site has now become a haven for those who either condone (or don't understand) rape culture.
I still haven't seen any of the vast majority of posts being anything like that, maybe I'm blind here?
> THAT'S why so many are leaving for other sites.
You may find this funny, but I used to visit Weasyl frequently and I stopped doing that because of the libellous comments I received (as in, targeted at me) whom claimed to be moving to Weasyl. I don't really want to be around those people.
I will also add, that I do not approve of actual rape. I would not stand to defend anyone who is undeniably a rapist.
If you disagree, that's YOUR thing.
Sorry, thought you meant this journal, not the site. I'm pretty certain there is plenty of hate in other journals.
> and demonstration of complete ignorance on the subject of rape
Not really surprising. They're not exactly an organisation that was meant to deal with that sort of thing. I would be upset if my local police that dealt with serious crimes demonstrated that behaviour though.
> I don't blame people at all for leaving.
Do you blame me for leaving Weasyl?
> I've lost all desire to support this site.
I hear you.
> If you disagree, that's YOUR thing.
I'm not trying to convince you, convincing anyone you're talking to of anything on forums, comments is close to impossible in my many years of experience online.
Its a shame that so many immediatley think the worst of others when this kind of thing keeps happening, and i hope your ok *hug*
Either way, everyone needs to remember that they were not there and they don't know shit. Zaush and Ferality know what happened and the rest is up to the US legal system. I'm glad that furs like you took the time to try and understand what is going on. The majority in here are just riding the drama train.
At this point I barely even care what officially happened that day anymore......It's been screwed all different ways. I'm more ticked off at how the admins handled the understandable uproar.
Well...that and like 999 other things FA just can't seem to get right.
I'm sure, like me this was a 'last straw' thing for a lot of people.
This so called scandal is the victim in question and your problem, not some random group of people's excuse to make jackasses out of themselves.
It's a shame people can't think for themselves and base their accusations on facts instead of rumors some pissed off person said.
But oh well.
I look forward to how project pheonix turns out.
Hopefully it'll make it so that no one can hack the system and make copies of our notes to post online.
B: Mob mentality is fucking ugly, i really hate how everyone jumps on a sensationalist bandwagon with little to no facts as to what ACTUALLY happened. Instead they just go off the whole he said she said bullshit and thats how we end up with this stuff (Or people believing that the Obama is a Islamic terrorist who was born in kenya or some shit like that).
Donald Trump's fanboys are still out there moving the goalposts?
Sorry, not to go off-topic, but... wow. I thought the birther movement died a long time ago X3
I know he was born in the US. I'm not part of the birther movement - I'm poking fun at it. X3
I don't have any coffee, sadly. Can't stand the stuff. >.<
Will you settle for a banana?
There you go. Have a good one.
Now I'd like to think/hope people can change so I wanna just go by what people do now, if you make another mistake I'll remember that but a lot of people have regrets and mistake so can we please calm down just a little? I don't think anyone knows how these people involved feel, be it bad or glad it's over we just don't know and can't keep jumping up and down claiming we know like we where there :c
If you have been raped or sexually abused, visit http://www.rainn.org/ or call some authorities. DO NOT just discuss this with friends and think everything will be better. You need to seek proper help in order to get proper help, and its nothing but a unproven accusation until you do.
Also, if you're raped or have issues with a person, then you SHOULD NOT be seeing this person again. If you going back to them despite your feelings of being taken advantage of, then you should not be crying rape. You're consenting through your own actions. It would be asking for raw eggs from a restaurant and then sued them for salmonella poisoning.
Rape is a serious and important issue and everyone involved should regard it as such.
Whoa wait what? What happened with that?
She sung in a few songs for them... set me free and boy toy.
Bravo, and to all you haters: Just stop.
I read up and been on your page that you were a CODER.
Yet we are not safe apparently.
I found out all of this crap happened YEARS ago,and its like...why does it matter anymore today. Especally for a fucking Coder bringing us Updates many of us BEGGED for.
It also is sick because false claims belittle the real victims and make it harder to come forward when they're already so scared to.
I really do hope FA can be fixed, and I bet all the fleeing sheep will come back home wagging their tails behind them. FA has been my home for 7 years now and even when I've been knocked down and harassed too I just can't let the place go.
goodluck
and its even more sad that after Zaush has basicly given proof of his innocence the dramawhores will continue to cry rape rape and run off to weasyl in tears for a few months
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwRQSv-LuJc
sure seems like it
If so, congrats.
What you're doing is making an overall uneducated generalisation. A mistake you continually to make in every damn journal I read with your name associated to it.
Unless you have some spread sheet listing user names along with their proven political values. What you're spewing is just pure shit.
Keep yelling. It wont make it any more true.
don't waste yer breath
It's a fair stereotype to say a few commentors that are unwaivering their opinions that Zaush needs to be punished because themselves have had an emotional, sexual experience are acting similar to a negative interpretation of a femanist.
#Mens rights activist
#antifeminist
Not all feminists are as you think, that's more of the extreme variety ( which is not a form I agree with). Most just want equal rights. It is not a wish of all Feminists (or most even!) to see men raped or oppressed.
The issue with the Men's rights movement (mind you I always see this going on on Reddit) is, what are they fighting against? They do not experience discrimination in the same way as women can on a wide field.
Plus,they seem to be very assholey about it which doesn't help. (Again, maybe this is Reddit's problem but still.)
some of the most outspoken feminists I've encountered are some of the most hateful filled people incapable of leaving others minding their business alone.
I'm sure some of them are just people who chose a side, and it wasn't his.
Feminists use the world incorrectly as "Don't agree with my opinions?! You're obviously a misogynist!"
I just point out they practice misandry, and call it a day
Show me a logical feminist. I'll wait.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/125...../#cid:78655681
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/125...../#cid:78655190
Those who believe you already gain nothing from this.
Those who don't believe you made up their minds long ago and will read into this what they want, or will not read it and see it as the murmured denials of a guilty man.
Those like me who don't give a damn either way won't be swayed to one side of the argument or the other.
So really the only thing worth doing was keeping your head down, working hard and proving yourself through actions, not words.
People, especially in the internet age, want to know what you can do for them. They don't want justifications, they want results.
Sometimes trying to put out the fire will only make it worse.
In this case there seems to be more rumour spreading around than fact. Worst thing you can do to a rumour is give it attention.
that being said FA likes one thing more than pron, DRAMA
Try to salvage what respect you have left. Either innocent or guilty, what has transpired here by you and Dragoneer has caused a massive shitstorm.
Unless they are doing this for free. nothing will get done.
Then again, I merely assume most people in the community are terrible people, So i don't have the problem of being shocked.
If you go anywhere, Furries are notorious for drama bullshit.
So... do you still go to youtube?
I only ever use youtube for computer modding tips. Other than that, just another bandwagon I ignore. Like Facebook.
If we actually hired Coders from outside the community, FA wouldn't be the fuck up that it is.
But right now, despite any good intentions that Zaush may or may not have had, no good is coming from it.
And let me just state that all of this is my personal opinion, and should not be taken as fact.
The only reason no good is coming from it. It because there is absolutely nothing that can be done for this community.
We've already had one DDOS attack probably due to this issue. Do we need another?
The Long-Term effects have yet to become apparent, but the short-term effects, which can lead to further landslide conditions, are extremely evident. Looking at this from a P.R. stance, he needs to step down, otherwise further bad rep will be garnished from the situation.
We've already seen poor damage control in the form of bannings and suspensions. It took days for him to get any decent defense out into the open. Best example of what is rapidly encroaching upon us could be shown in the form of Dwarf Fortress's " Tantrum Spiral ".
Zaush stepping down won't solve much besides sparking rumour that he has done so out of guilt.
Well. I prefer principle. And the whims a bunch of grown men in diapers, tails, fur ears masturbating furiously is no way to run a website.
My life offline takes precedence. Education. Work in industry. Family.
This? This community? I'm no more connected to it than a fellow traveler. I'm here for my interests and nothing else. I'm not your brother, your brother in arms, fighting with you for you cause of "furry" or any such nonsense.
It's my personal interest to be as far from those people as possible.
If I accuse you of stealing money from your work place, does that mean I can make you quit your job just cause I accused you of stealing?
I'm sorry to see all of the hate that has surfaced from a community that generally is full of hope, open minds and freedom. Not knowing any of the parties involved personally, I make no allegiances one way or the other. The plausible act is revolting, as is those who use it's accusation without the ability to understand what it means. Since no actual authorities have ever been involved in this, it is blatant to see that you are the victim of false accusations; not a committed crime. If there was any corroboration of evidence and truth to the "victim's" actual victimization, clearly her boyfriend (who disapproved with this to a zealous level) would have pursued legal action to see that justice was done. But there was no justice to be done; there was only hate wrought upon you.
Looking at the facts, this is my conclusion; but again, having not been there nor an accessory, I make no allegiance. But the facts seem to speak very clearly.
I wish you the best of luck to put this behind you.
I don't have anything against you, but then again I've never spoken to you. Thats most likely due to your popularity.
Still don't care. I've said it once and ill keep saying it. This place is just an art gallery. People need to keep their panties out of a knot. Just chill out.
Staying on FA till there isn't an FA.
c-c-c-combo breaker!
I second this notion entirely ;D
A very nicely written levelheaded reply. Bravo for keeping your cool.
Classy.
Besides, isn't this information people have been demanding from him to begin with? Now it's up to the other part to counter what was said as he did the other way around. If it's a lie, let them say so and present their side. I mean we're already being judge and jury anyway so mind as well have all the evidence out in the open from both sides, to make an actual EDUCATED decision on what's true or not based on the full statements of both parties instead of just the knee jerk gut reactions that everyone has been doing up to this point.
And yeah, I just wish people would go at stuff like this with a bit more emotional detachment and just make decisions based on facts presented. So far, the facts are incomplete, so conclusions should also be incomplete.
(And frankly, it's people who are now bringing this all back up after 3 years and making it literally an FA event are the ones who are reopening a wound if there is one to reopen on the alleged victim, because they're bringing it up again, loudly.)
Aaaaand all of which is also totally irrelevant to your ability to do coding for a furry art site IMO, but what do I know...
Keep on being awesome. =)
I think FA is a great place and people leaving it is just like me leaving DA when they were fucktards so dude I will support you however I can and come on, all this rape stuff is bullcrap.
And whoever did this to you, will receive swift justice on their heads.
If people would explain things in a calm and collected manner like you just did Zaush the drama would be far less prevalent on FA. I stay out of the 'politics' of websites personally, and in general there really isn't much that can influence me into moving my profile elsewhere. For me, Furaffinity is easy to use and -usually- enjoyable to be on. Maybe because i'm under the radar and don't draw a lot of porn I'm not getting meteors of verbal doom thrown at me. I digress, people will be people and it's better to not take what people say about an emotionally charged situation at face value.
The problem is getting to know when to back off when the other person isn't interested. This is where Zaush probably dropped the ball, prolly being a little too pushy, and insisting on aspects the other person wasn't comfortable with (barebacking, usually incompatible with casual sex).
Consex is freaking common. If you don't believe that you're naive.
Seriously:
Have you never been physically attracted to annother person? Just look at that guy/gal and thing, "Ohhai. That is one hot person. I'd sure like to have a romp with him/her."
One of the easier and less complicated ways to deal with such a discovery is to walk up to that person and tell them:
"Hey. You're incredibly sexy. Would you like to go for it?"
Either you end up an hour later, happy and exhausted, or not. I don't see any problem with that whatsoever.
By that I mean , Even if you prove yourself 100% innocent of the accused crime , People are STILL going to think you did it.
If this case was actually Brought to court and you were acquitted of the charges and ' Proven Innocent ' People will continue to think you're Guilty.
AND WORSE is that you're accused of a sex crime which is a hot topic for people ... It's like A Teacher just needs to be Accused of molesting the kids they teach and their Career is Ruining Forever, and that's what this seems like.
You were Never Brought up on Criminal Charges , So until you are , you have to be considered as an innocent person.
So I ask all the people judging you without a fair trial or do process ~ What if you were in his shoes ?
Obama is a Muslim, Sasquatch roam the US, everything in Australia is out to kill you.
Your journal probably won't be believed by the people who already accuse you of being a rapist based on rumor and poor evidence. It is enlightening to hear the other side of the story though in my view.
I remember when all this came out a few years ago, and I was disgusted by peoples' personal lives being plastered over the internet... I still read everything as it had suddenly became public and people were asking my opinion... I figured I should make an informed opinion if I was going to make one at all.
At the time, I said "Zaush comes off as an asshole, but not a rapist" which is something I could probably still say today about that situation.
I don't need to be friends with the site administration to continue to enjoy the community though, so my personal opinion of those people doesn't matter.
What disgusts me more than any potential accusations here is the complete mob mentality that has taken over the fandom over this. If you had been convicted of raping someone or if there was substantial proof, that would be one matter, but to have this kind of witchhunt over what amounts to shaky accusations and rumor is completely disgusting and makes me lose faith in the community I choose to be a part of.
Thank you for letting me vent on your journal. I wish you the best, and I hope the fandom gains some perspective.
You're a smart guy from what I can tell. No one in their hate mongering ect has ever accused you of being stupid. In fact I think you far from it. Which worries me to some extent.
You claim to have grown quite a bit since 2010. I can't fault you for your sexual preferences and feel terrible that you had to list them in a public forum. The fact is. If you want to do good, if you want people to see you cast in a different light. Step down. It's the last thing they expect you to do.
You could sit there with Neer and the others. Just wait, and in time it will pass. Or, you can do what everyone doesn't expect and just be the bigger man and step down. That to me would prove to myself and everyone else whom have had a doubt that you have in fact grown. You have in fact learned not to be that egotistical gent that everyone speaks of. In the end, regardless of the reboot, this will reflect on your character, not the site.
The better man stands up for what he believes in.
I don't see that as being the bigger man. I see that as potentially being bullied off through the use of libel.
> That to me would prove to myself and everyone else whom have had a doubt that you have in fact grown.
Wouldn't mean anything like tat to me.
> You have in fact learned not to be that egotistical gent that everyone speaks of.
I don't see stepping down as an anti-egotistical move.
> In the end, regardless of the reboot, this will reflect on your character, not the site.
Yes, to me it would say that Zaush could be bullied. His weakness exposed.
http://www.xtube.com/community/prof.....olfherdtreznor
enjoy
Don't worry about it guy; the point of that post was really to point out to others that not everyone has the same perception as you. Not to change your mind.
Peace out.
and if you feel that strongly about it. Take it to court.
"STOP CHOOSING SIDES! RAPE APOLOGIST!"
Y-you mean like reporting it to the police, gathering evidence, and then charging you with a crime?!
I-I-It almost sounds like you're referring to the justice system!
Why are you allowed to use the justice system, but Zaush isn't?
People are always gonna have their own opinions, truth or no truth. Also furries worship great artists like gods and are blind anyway to truths in their faces, explained in clear detail or not.
If Zaush did rape? Fuck it, who cares, and this should be considered a IRL issue with police. Not our business to know, care, or get involved. Still want the update regardless.
If Zaush didnt rape said female but was still a douche about it to get her to do stupid sex shit, who cares and everyone should just move the fuck on cause its just typical "unf unf fuck me guuuuurl" furry sex drama.
With that said, can we get on with the new update so we can just put this ridiculous drama aside?
rape or not
nice~
Me? I dont care what happens. Not my business he is lying or being truthful.
And we shall sit, and wait. Patiently.
get the fuck outta here you little ho'tes
Because guess what the biggest hot-button issue in Dragonriders of Pern fandom is?
gotta make it fun eh? ;d
Blah blah blah~
People are always gonna have their own opinions, truth or no truth. Also furries worship great artists like gods and are blind anyway to truths in their faces, explained in clear detail or not.
If Zaush did rape? Fuck it, who cares, and this should be considered a IRL issue with police. Not our business to know, care, or get involved. Still want the update regardless.
If Zaush didnt rape said female but was still a douche about it to get her to do stupid sex shit, who cares and everyone should just move the fuck on cause its just typical "unf unf fuck me guuuuurl" furry sex drama.
With that said, can we get on with the new update so we can just put this ridiculous drama aside?
If Zaush did rape? Fuck it, who cares)
Uh, if he did rape her, would you care? That should be somthing you care about. He has ADMIN privileges, that means he can harass ANY girl on this sight, by viewing her notes, and all her private information. Dragoneer gave a key to the city, to a sexual predator, you SHOULD care, but as you stated, you dont, and that, is sick.
a completely different tune would be sung I can guarantee ya
Me, me, me, me, meeeeeeeee~ *cough cough* oh, damn. Sorry! Waiting for that different tune to show up after 8 years of membership.
I mean the ho'tes above, ben
Problem solved in itself, if you ask me.
And your right, I dont care. Cause what can I do to stop a sex craving lunatic (if he is one) and save the furry world that is FA? Wave my magic sword of basic FA membership and defeat the evil that is Zaush? Come on... think outside the box and look at the real picture that is reality.
This is physical, he forced himself on a woman, you dont do sh*t like that. Dragoneer doesnt care, he defends Zaush. He wont lift a finger to revoke his admin status, but will play favorits, and defend Zaush, as hes doing now. Have you seen Dragoneer twitter? Hes making excuses now for him.
People are pissed over the ADMINS, defending him, acting like its nothing, just move along and fap happy, like you. No, its wrong, sorry.
As for forcing himself on someone, yeah its wrong. But whats done is done, and if that woman didnt press charges, then thats her fault for not doing so and getting ACTUAL justice involved and sending him to jail or fining him for rape, harassment, etc.
That I personally feel is wrong, is that these furries think they can do something about all this and change this flow of events. in sad thruth, they cant, they wont, and its just not possible. And as I said, whats done is done. Nothing will change what happened that he did. And if dragonner wasnt to back him up, let him do so and make such false/truth accusations/excuses and make himself look bad. Wont fix anything still since he is the highest admin ranked anyway.
Solutions?
For some reason, this made me laugh harder than I have in a long time.
Kudos.
People seem to think they can change the world just by saying some words on a comment to a journal...
It's like watching people screaming at the news when something bad happens saying 'god bless you all' and thinking it's really going to help.
If they wanted to help they would stay out of it and let the people involved deal with it and apparently it was dealt with long before he even decided to try for admin.
I think it's funny how the worst people on FA for white knighting and drama still stick around to troll people who spread some 'Truth and honesty' about the whole situation.
The only thing I'm rather sad to hear is how hard the man is to work with. Then again if you love a project enough you would stick with it regardless of how horrible your boss is. >.>
I dunno though, I'm just an idiot on FA trying to encourage people who say something worth two scents and let them know they did do good by what they said. Haha I guess I'm a bit of a loser too.
This post you made here is the only reasonable response, you know? Which is sad.
We sure as hell can't reason or talk to the anti-Zaush crowd... I know I tried to, a couple of times, and both times I got accused of being a rapist or worse. =/
Haha I've never seen so much drama over something so cheesily wrote up, its like everyone's seen a horrible porno and all they can do is bash the actors for playing in it because they needed the money.
Sure, while everyone's at it... make claims that I'm referencing this to rape and that I don't care at all. :P I've heard it all already people.
Can we move on yet?
You dont know the answer to this yet? Let me give you the answer in 1 word.
"Furries".
These people really love you it seems. Good luck with telling the lynch mob here to grow up and get real hobbies. ^.=.^
Hey, if they wanna try and get involved in something they cant ever hope to solve, let them. They may not see that in the end their time and effort was all for nothing... but I will. And I will smile.
if none of these allegations were true, why'd the 'all mighty admins' remove comments and ban/threaten users? and why do you still withhold names even to this day if none of this is 'as bad as it seems' though your victims name is out in the open...
yeah~
Libel and slander are two-way streets, my friend. It isn't all just fall onto one side without applying to the other. FA should be shutting journals like THIS down, as well. But we know that they won't, because this site's administration has already chosen it's side, and has zero interest in remaining neutral. It's already decided whom to favor, that much is abundantly clear.
This applies just as much to Zaush's victim as you feel and believe it applies to Zaush. Funny how all of his Yes-Men conveniently forget that.
The bottom line is that given the current evidence, the scenario is not legally rape. However, given the current evidence, we can't say he's not a hypersexual creep. It's not a black and white, true or false situation.
And that's why the people that are being harmed by this, or can't watch said people being harmed, are leaving in droves.
Now, would he do that, I doubt it, but the fact remains, Admin were looking out for themselves in all of this (AND DAMN YOU for even making me have to defend an admin position because their decisions as of the past year have not been stuff I've been personally happy about).
This matter though, remove the emotion from it, is factually logical for them to delete content.
NOW, as for this journal, since Zaush created this one himself, he opens this line of conversation up himself, which protects FA. That other journal where stuff was being removed, this topic was not relevant to what the journal was about.
*Sigh* Really? Have you ever in you life at all looked how Logic works? I mean this is Kindergarten stuff. Have you ever heard of something called the "burden of proof?" or "onus probandi"? The "burden of proof" is always on the one asserting a claim. If I say "there is a pink unicorn in my garage" it is MY responsibilty to deliver evidence since I have made a "positive" claim. If I say "Person XYZ is a Rapist" It's is me who is asserting a claim, ergo, the burden of proof is automatically on me. That's how this shit works since friggin Sokrates. Skeptics on this issue, don't even have to claim anything all they have to do is say "I don't believe that to be accurate" to the accuser and Bam! you assertion is out the window per default. if you can't show it, you don't know it and no one has to move from the default position. (original comment hidden and reposted due to FA fucking up the collums)
No, this is the definition: a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.
I can post a series of events me and my friend did, ie. "Mark and I went to McDonalds for some burgers. He LOVES Big Macs!" I don't need proof or any evidance to post this yet I made a claim about Mark liking Big Macs.
Calling someone a rapist is serious and >should< require evidence otherwise be removed from the site.
She's the one that made the rape claim without a police report or any evicdance. In a court of law, if a person says you killed their partner while providong no evidance and you went to the stand and denied the acqusation, do you really think you would be charged with libel for implying she might be lying? The onus is on her for her claim. Once again I do not support guilty till proven innocnet and defending oneself against such claims is not libel.
Everything you said just makes it sound like you think there are no ill consequences of Zaush's journal towards the victim and that the only one who could POSSIBLY be harmed for being the target of potentially untrue statements ... is Zaush. Which is not even REMOTELY true. The alleged victim is being just as badly harmed by Zaush trying to discredit him as Zaush is being harmed by being accused. Potentially moreso, since the victim isn't being shielded by an army of Yes-Men and the entire administrative staff of this site. =P
And FYI ... the victim identifies as female now, so it's disrespectful of you to misgender him.
In a nut shell, a serious accusation was made without any evidence and everyone flipped out. I believe in 'innocent till proven guilty'. I don't know what Adam did or did not do. None of us were there. All I have is here-say from both parties. If this journal goes against the AUP then it is the site owners responsiblity to remove it. End of story.
Think of it this way... we have no proof from either sides, JUST a accusation. Therefor how about this, if i were to say you are a rapist. What can you do to defend against that? Nothing, because in your book because there is a victim out there because I called you out and accused you of rape. Yet factually nothing ever happened [I would hope] and nobody has the ability to say otherwise because they don't know either of you and weren't there.
The only way to prove this is if there was SOME legal measure taken and don't try this junk out on me because at the very least a restraining order could have been made, a notice, SOMETHING.
As for the "Victim" being harmed by this, as far as we all know factually... He, she, It [I don't care, I'm going to continue calling her a SHE for ease of conversation, call me a bastard for being insensitive <3] is a liar. So I don't care, if she is getting any backlash from this then I say good! 9 times out of 10 however she will have her own honor guard of greasy internet white knights and keyboard warriors waiting to lick her feet. Yes I am a insensitive bastard, when I smell a liar! If there comes a time where factual evidence tilts the scales of justice to prove that Zaush is factually guilty then I will be standing along side everyone else.
I don't care how popular someone is, you don't joke about rape and you DON'T use it for you personal agendas to ruin someones livelyhood and exile them from a community they willingly joined!
And for the record...? Rape is literally the HARDEST crime to have end in a conviction. There are almost never witnesses or physical evidence, the victim is often intimidated into calling off the charges, or law enforcement doesn't take the case seriously to begin with. What you're proposing RARELY ever happens. Especially with coercion rape. And even restraining orders aren't all that easy to get. Especially since you need to declare WHY you're getting it. That's not something all rape victims can handle. Discrediting someone from having been raped just because they aren't willing to try and handle it through legal means shows me that you either have NO experience with victims of sexual abuse, or a very, very, VERY limited and skewed perspective on what it's like. It's NOT that cut and dry.
Though I stand by my opinion, if you are lying and crying wolf then you deserve some backlash! If you are telling the fucking truth, and people are calling you a liar, then those people should either wake up or go to hell.
What makes 'the victim' right to vilify people just because something went sour? Just because of bad feelings? Call me insensitive, I don't care. This is for ease of conversation and I am going to continue calling her a SHE because at the time of this event it was SHE. If she wants to correct me, then I will politely from this time forward call her whatever she wants. So, yes I am a sick dude, yes I am a cold bastard and everything horrible because I don't empathize with people I believe wholly to be liars.
You sheeple consistently sound like a broken tape "Hardest crime to have in conviction." True, that may be fucking true. However, if someone ever did something like that and got away with it, I would take things into my own hands, they make fire arms for a reason. To defend yourself in dire needs, send the bastard to hell.
I'd rather do that then live with people thinking that I made something up, I'd rather that then have that person walking around, I'd rather THAT then anything. If it actually happened.
Look, you continue to insert your emotion into this forum, it is juvenile. Call me what you want, call it what you want. I only care about what is Cold, Cut, and Dry. Did he do it? Is there enough facts to support everyone's claims? If not, then someone must be lying, and seeing as I've seen this whole spiel play out before with other people, I am inclined to believe that she is in fact lying.
As far as Coercion rape, how many fucking terms are you people going to fish out of the water? Lets slice this fish up, shall we? Coercion is improper in this case as it was just persuasion, coercion implys that she went against her will through suggestion. She went in, fully aware and willingly. So, Coercion is out.
Secondly, Rape. Rape is not rape just because after sex you didn't like it. It just means it wasn't for you. That it wasn't something you enjoyed, which sucks but that happens. Rape is when you are unwillingly dragged into sex, or half way in between you say stop and the person does not listen. So far, NEITHER requirements have been filled.
No one's saying they don't care about rape here, we're saying that to bash someone for accusations against him is wrong.
Guess what? It is wrong... and you're going well over the top with all of this.
You sort of remind me of that guy preaching the bible to furries at FC this year, telling them they are evil and sinful and should repent.
Except in your eyes nothing this guy could ever do could ever help clear his name or make a bad situation that did or didn't even happen any better.
Might as well call everyone in the furry community who has ever looked at someone and thought about taking them in some elevator or storage closet a rapist too at this point.
Hell my little sister was raped and we didn't go through this much bullshit and drama over it. We handled it, got shit done and that was the end of it.
You know what the worse thing about rape is?
It's fucktards like you that keep bringing it back to light and keep reminding the victims and people that it happened.
You are being a Drama Queen.
You are trying to be a White knight.
You are going off of GROUNDLESS accusations and fighting people in a community YOU are apart of off of things YOU have no business in.
Zaush has only Text information [and screenshots of stuff in chat]
The Victim has only LEAKED notes that weren't even supposed to be public, that she sent to NEER trying to SLANDER someone based off of sour feelings!
Then again, I still allow for the possibility that I may be wrong, NOBODY aside from Zaush and the Woman and maybe one or two people who haven't spoken up or proven themselves haven't gave us more to go on.
Quit using that term Coercion rape, I already picked that weak term apart though you are right, not all rapes consist of violence, some consist of drugs and blackmail, were either used? Do we have proof to either side, NO.
Coercion does not fit.
Rape does not fit.
Combining both words, does not make it transform into something different to suit your needs.
Furthermore, if a victim is scared, that doesnt make any evidence cease to exist. Also, evidence can be retrieved up to 5 days after an assault. When it comes to reporting an incident it is the victims responsibility to do that. I understand fear, but fear does not remove responsibility. Especially the responsibility to protect ones self. Im not condemning people for it, because fear is a large obstacle, but its the truth.
Finally, I never said that all rapes were like that, I know for a fact they arent. I had a friend go through a date rape case involving drugs about a year ago. I would appreciate it if you could try not jumping to conclusions and make false assumptions about what I meant by what I said. All I was doing was correcting a false statement.
Withold names: he actually answered this in the journal, if you read it, "Considering the confidential nature of some of the conversations regarding friends of mine who don’t wish to be dragged into this mess, I’m selecting relevant segments and censoring names/details." People don't want to be dragged into this whether it's bad or not because at this point, he is a pariah. He doesn't want friends being asked about this and being harassed as he has been.
Hope this answers your questions.
the ones saying rape is OK are totes aight
so are the ones encouraging assault, and bitching out the victims
cos yanno, the TOS is actually a system and not a means of selectively nuking what makes dragoneer look bad for being a fucking moron
I am not saying that the whole situation was handled particularly professionally :P
Hmmm, why indeed... lets see what Aunt Wiki has to say about that:
Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, or traducement—is the communication of a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal action to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism.
Under common law, to constitute defamation, a claim must generally be false and have been made to someone other than the person defamed. Some common law jurisdictions also distinguish between spoken defamation, called slander, and defamation in other media such as printed words or images, called libel.
I'm still getting some really bad vibes from even your side of the story.
The first time you met that girl you asked her if she was interested in fooling around with you and then offered to do a trade with nsfw art. If that had been me I wouldn't have even given you my number, in fact I probably would have reminded you how you should introduce yourself to people, especially to women, because that's just gross.
You then proceeded to, as we can see, attempted to press her into doing things she was uncomfortable with multiple times knowing already she was uncomfortable with the things you wanted to do although from your side of the story she seemed okay with doing these things. Or at least you thought so. It doesn't seem like you forced these things though (at least from your side of the story).
You then go on to admit that the lack of online drama by removing your personal life from the internet left a "hole in your heart. Not the person that should be the administrator of a site.
I understand this happened a while back and you may not be the same person as before but this is wrong and you know it. Take responsibility for your actions, they happened. Step down.
2.) He is not an administrator. He is a programmer. That's like saying the guys in Office Space were on the board of directors for Initech.
I fully agree with the previous comment.
It's good, Zaush. Just do you and the world is your oyster and all that jazz.
Reason:
- stress reduces sex drive
- men have more libido than women
- the woman has sex with the partner unwilingly to "shut him up and make him happy"
- its very hard to get the woman in the mood unless shes very hormonal by nature.
... And I have two very pronounced examples of the reverse I talk to every day.
I can honestly say that all of those ARE true.
As for me being in the other 60%, well... First, to be honest, IMO, it's a completely made-up statistic -- I believe it is not 40, but much closer to 100% for both sexes provided they are in a relationship for any significant time, and are past "fuck whenever they can" age for boys which you clearly base your view on. (Libido peak for males being in teen age, for females, in thirties, if you're to believe wiki and it having three references quoted on that same fact.)
Second, you're totally wrong. I am neither in those 60, nor 40, and both at the same time. Me being into D/s lifestlyle for longer than you're alive, I have been in a couple longterm relationships where me being willing was defined -- consensually -- as not calling a safeword. Simple "no" didn't cut it.
And as for examples I mentioned... Well, make it three. All three people are here, two are just too similar. There are way more I know outside.
One girl is in a stable longterm relationship, her mate is not here. She's constantly complaining about him not wanting to have enough sex -- often, giving an excuse he's tired from work (she's staying at home), but generally, just having lower drive.
Second is pretty similar, them both being here, and me talking to both, so knowing both sides of the coin. She often complains on having to push him into sex, to the point he got a kind of a guilt complex and was asking me for advice on how to deal with the issue, and complaining on his low drive.
And third is a guy who is here, his wife isn't. They don't have sex often, four times out of five, she initiates it, and half the attempts end in her being unable to push him enough -- and then trying to get him to take pills or whatever for his erectile dysfunction -- which he really doesn't have (I know :P), just is totally not hitting the mood. And when he's in the mood and she's not, by her own words, she still goes for sex not to "shut him up and make him happy" but to "get any".
... And I am not gonna count the stereotypical geek/gamer cases. These are... I don't know what they are doing in a relationship. Until recently, it was almost universally the teen/20s guys spending all their time at a console and their girls having to pull the plug -- but as I get it, it's getting the other way around, too, lately. Don't know how common it is, I don't have that many folks that age in my circle.
Hell i do it all the time coz my drive is pretty damn low (to deprive him for months just coz I'm not in the mood isn't very nice)
Here's hoping FA Phoenix comes out with no further hiccups.
thats not actually against the rules, FA has a "take it off site" rule which even now you are using by telling folks to talk to you via skype to get said information.
post proof~
well, it's on a different site
then post a link~
...it's against the rules
-w-
just smells fishy to me .-.
and keep yer false messiah to yerself please
Ask him, and he will give you those notes he is 'hiding' from you.
You're the one spinning things, dude. He cannot provide a direct link to content that would violate the TOS. Period.
Cause you see, ToS doesnt cover this, CoC does.
Actually Technically he cant use Notes to tell people or give a link to the problem as hes giving a link on site, thus leaving only email and skype.
nope~ he's just fallowing the rules don't you know? :0 bull~
Point is that directly providing such information is still a violation because it's a direct link. Like you said, email and skype are the only two unenforceable methods in this situation.
naw, i'll just watch you sheep's baaa at yer idol
lel oh you
good on you for pushing through mate :3
PROVE ME WRONG!!
try harder little lamb
orly nao?
to much for you lamby? heh, and just when it was getting fun
'not trying to sound or come off as intelligent, you keep implying that for some reason? your own short coming getting to the better of you eh?
you claim not to care yet we're still having this conversation~ yer actions speak otherwise, little lamb
you obviously have some intellectual inferiority, else you wouldn't keep bringing it up, what's this, 3-4 or more times you've brought it up throughout this entire journal?
I call you a lamb to demean and to classify you with yer group, you know, like christfag shills~ surprised you weren't able to piece that together with your 'superior american intellect' already
all this bs aside, you are a fun gent to shoot the shit with ;d if you can call this that
when'd that go down?
"My fiancé had since dumped me the past spring for one of her swinging partners, an older guy with a larger income."
I made a simple observation, yes it is a bit one-sided, but it's not false, for a decent amount of women (not ALL women, or even a majority, mind you)
Please keep your insults to yourself or we're going to have a problem.
I don't know how making an observation like that makes me a sexist, I was just responding to Zaush's unfortunate situation where he lost a girl when she left him for someone with more money.
Hope your doing alright, teacher lol. ^^
FYI, The note leak was not caused because the DB wasn't encrypted and then somehow compromised. If you're heading up this new rewrite, ensure you're not inventing solutions to non-existent problems (though it's probably a good idea anyway, but for different reasons).
Afterall a way fix that problem is to make it that admins have to go thru extra hoops to access peoples notes
Still, the weakness of that event was the fact that Admins can read notes if they want to, all you have to do is just get the password of one of the admins. The possible way to fix it is to make admins go thru hoops to see notes, like only being able to read it if said person provided a direct link to said note...which they may have already done such thing as the TT system do ask for links to the note(s).
Hopefully, this helps in some points and with what Dragoneer has said about some points in this, I can see why he has his decisions he's made.
The only clear thing here is the poor management of the FA stuff on all of this.
FA is not a court of law. It is a bunch of drama llamas and gossip queens.
The authorities of law should have been contacted if such a crime did occur, not the authorities of an online furry art site consisting of 99% porn.
Still, I've kept my nose out of this. I just wish the hundreds of journals on the topic I have to nuke everyday would end already.
You go to city hall for marriage licenses, and permits and stuff.
FA is none of the above.
This whole "social scandal" is one big clusterfuck. I don't know why everyone has to go around parading their 'righteous indignation' about the situation.
YOU DO NOT BRING YOUR REAL-LIFE SEX-LIFE DRAMA HERE. This is a furry art website. It's supposed to be for ART, written, drawn, recorded, or otherwise composed. For people who are fans of said art, and for people who want art to buy the services of artists whose galleries and style appeal to them.
I just want to get back to browsing art, and following artists. I don't want to nuke tons of journals about this..... SHIT.
Rape is shitty. Rapists are shitty. Can anyone prove that this is legally, criminally rape? Zaush is not in cuffs, not in jail, and not in a courtroom anywhere that I'm aware of. So in at least.... 4 states that I'm aware of, including Colorado, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Utah, defamation is definitely a legally-actionable offense. Not profitable to pursue, not easy, and not common. But the laws ARE THERE.
Where's the Like button? WHERE IS IT?!?!
Gaaaaah I need to upvote naaaaaooooo.
Your welcome. :p
*is going to stay all Switzerland on this*
A. Hold onto the fact you were even slightly working on it as a developer.
B. Assume you are still working on it if someone else was to pick up where you left off.
Things never change here.
Drama never changes.
He has enlightened me to a sad but equally sadly understandable statistic: About half of all rapes reported are bogus claims.
Girls who don't want their parents to realize that they're (willingly) sexually active, or regret doing a one-night stand, or... that kind of BS.
So oddly enough I'm enclined to believed you on this Zaush.
Plus from the looks of it, it all seems to have been a big misunderstanding blown out of proportions. If something criminal had been done, why hadn't she simply filed charges?
/thread
cause that does happen
However, such offenders tends to NOT publicly make statements regarding their innocence.
I mean, think about it dude, why lie about it now?
If for years they had maintained silence about it, causing many to just ignore the drama since nobody seemed to know the true facts, why change that if they truly wanted to hush it up?
Not getting caught is 9 10s of criminal law - and not stepping forth and acknowledging that you had part in it (Even if claiming to be innocent) is thus NOT something guilty people tend to do. Sure, some do, but I do not get the impression that Zaush is that kind of criminal mastermind
it usually happens when something is being done towards them
This happen previously before (this is actually about an old thing that happen years ago being brought back up again) and then it died out and Zaush was doing such a thing back then too.
its been years BETWEEN events, specially how the person themselves didnt say they were raped, it was other people from THAT event going on how she was raped. The person at the time thought they were taken advantaged of, their side points to "taken advantage of".
I'm a person more worried about the coding, cause I been on FA for 7 of its 9 years, and I have seen teams come and go and nothing happening, I remember Ferrox Team, I remember when we got the people from Furocity who was gonna come here, and to learn that before Zaush, Neer hired another team to do the new site and he forgot about them...
Literally redo everything what Yiffstar did to become SoFurry: kill the old code, make new code, test out new code, take down website to implement new code and bring it back up...
The taking down part is what Im worried about cause I remember what happen when FA was down for MONTHS and people went mad, seeing what happen when FA was down for a week or two was actually worst than that. I dont think FA can handle another down time for a period of time.
I've seen a couple of news stories about how friends of a guy convicted of rape collected evidence (mp3 players with dictaphone features for the win) from the accuser - exonerating the guy convicted. And that was all because the girl had originally not wanted to admit to her father that she had been dating a boy he didn't like... so she'd said that he'd raped her.
It puts an awful lot of stress and pressure on genuine rape victims - and it sucks
I recall a particularly amusing/nasty story from the US where two otherwise friendly acquaintances, a man and a woman, get together one night. The woman says she needs to borrow a bit more money than is easily spared, but she offers to have sex with the man in return. The guy is a bit apprehensive, but ultimately agrees.
Next morning the woman regrets her choice and calls rape. The police bust him, he denies everything but otherwise remains calm - even when his entire local community turns on him and makes his life hell during the trial.
Since there's a good load of DNA evidence in her, and two weren't in any way known to date or anything in advance it goes to trial - all the way to just before the guy is about to declared guitly...
Turns out that the guy had been weary of her offer to begin with, so he'd secretly had his webcam record their last 30 seconds of interaction before sex plus most of the sex itself. He revealed this just the last moment.
He gets exonorated, she gets busted big-time for perjury, and a lot of people from the local community who'd shunned him got to eat their words quite harshly
Now, whether this story is true or - I honestly don't know, seeing that it was posted on 4chan several years ago (supposedly by the guy who'd gone through all of this) - but honestly, from the description then I could easily imagine it so
Real people who actually do the statistics for this country will tell you that it's 2 to 6 percent
So
I only know what I've been told - plus, I think it stands to reason that many false rape allegations never make it on the books, as most police worth their salt can spot false allegations fairly early. Not all make it to trial, and not all false accusers are necessarily punished beyond a slap on the wrist with a "Don't do that again" - because honestly, given the circumstances where most such allegations come from, then punishing the accuser even more might not just be adding insult to injury
And no, it really doesn't. Some people like to THINK that it does, but that number of false rape allegations simply does not exist. 92-98% of all rape allegations are founded-- meaning, there is solid evidence to them. The remaining 8% are mostly UNFOUNDED-- which means that they don't have evidence to back them up. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're "made up". It means that they couldn't find any substantial evidence to prosecute-- which is likely to happen if the victim is coerced into having sex. An estimated 2% of all rape allegations are truely false.
Still, only 46% of rapes are reported, and only 3% of rapists actually go to prison.
You're grasping at straws to make a made-up, and fairly disgusting, statistic that a family member told you one time stand up. It doesn't.
Also, I will note that I find it quite curious that newer research in places like the UK and elsewhere get a very small 'fake' rate, like 5% or lower, when they go check.
I'm kinda curious why there is such a difference in the numbers. You see, that kind of statistical discrepancy is - at least academically - really weird and kinda suspect
YOU MEAN THE ONE THAT PEOPLE WHO STUDIED FALSE RAPE ALLEGATIONS AFTER HIM
FOUND TO BE COMPLETELY FALSE AND NOT A VIABLE STATISTIC/ SOURCE FOR STATISTICS
I can't even keep talking to you. I cannot BELIEVE that someone can be so PURPOSEFULLY IGNORANT.
As we all know rape is a serious accusation and one that shouldn't be taken lightly, that said, i don't know that anyone here knows the full story or can see an unclouded truth. I don't know you personally, and i don't know your actions in the past other than what you've stated here, but it is a very unfortunate situation you are in.
I hope things can be cleared up quickly for you and that this will be resolved in a way that future issues will not arise.
Thus is the 'furry community' though - if there isn't a drama available, find one to jump on.
Cheers and be well.
>If you’re a victim of rape or sex crime, contact the authorities, or at the very least seek a counselor who can help you make the right decision or
>cope. Crimes of this nature should be dealt with by those who are able to intervene, so be brave and don’t hide away in the shadows thinking
>nobody cares.
If she had a case she would have gone to the authorities. As she has not, anything she says can only be counted as slander.
I apologise for the following sarcasm.
As we all know 'innocent until proven guilty' has no meaning at all.
RALPH NADER 2016
http://benanderson89.tumblr.com/pos.....sh-over-fa-2-0
http://benanderson89.tumblr.com/pos.....e-note-i-never
http://benanderson89.tumblr.com/pos.....-over-fa-2-0-3
I am not a coder, I am not involved in any coding or management projects, and I do not have context outside of these screenshots. While many only have heard of you and the allegations of rape against you, your words to those supposed other coders form the basis of my questioning of your involvement with the project. Anecdotal, I have seen several other coders who want to code for FA but cannot lend their skills. When you say you presented your material to the site owner upon his request, I believe you are not mentioning the position you were already in to be able to see the code and be in such trust with him.
The sexual allegations against you are one thing, and if they were the only thing, then I can see it being excusable to introduce you to the position you are currently in with FA. However, you have TWO issues revolving around you, and in my mind, when it comes to the FA that I spend my time with, your apparent bullying and verbal abuse of other coders (and potential social manipulation in order to get the position over the other candidates) are much more concerning to me.
Do I want you taken off the project? I have not come to that conclusion yet. I want to know more about how you treat and work with the other coders, and I want to know why Dragoneer chose you. I would also like to hear from those you were working with (particularly from Ben Anderson and Hunter).
All I really want is some transparency. It may be a free site, it may be that I am just a user, one among thousands, but I care about this site. I want to see it be the best that it can be. I want to know that the decisions that are made about FA are made with the best information, the best intentions, and the best results. For FA, for the community, and for me. I enjoy what FA has built and I feel proud of my contribution to it.
That said, can Dragoneer and you, Adam Wan, confidently vouch that you are the best choice for this role?
i have nothing to say about how he treats his co-workers
let the world itself judge
This entire thread has been the (furry) world judging Zaush
And Adam... you have balls to follow great path thru village of rock-throwing dumasses. Go for it man
I didn't believe in this nonsense when I first heard about it, which I believe was yesterday sometime. I don't participate in drama, nor do I take sides as that is how one participates in the drama. lol.
The rumors of you being a rapist just sounded horribly false, as it sounded purely like hear-say. People chose to believe in things that can't be proven, and these people are rather weak-minded. They may believe anything anyone tells them purely because they want to be in for the ride.
Also your description of events sounds very plausible. I can all too easily see that happening in the furry fandom. The furry fandom shouldn't be about all this drama, but seems lots of people like excitement. Furries could host our own regular show of Jerry Springer, new episodes daily. :)
Stay strong, continue your work to better FA, and don't worry about people who people whatever they're told to believe without proof.
With your kind of experience I'm actually kind of confident that it will actually happen instead of being just another empty promise. "[...] something to freshen the site’s appearance and bring it out of the stone age." Yeah, very true :P
I have no clue of FA's actual code structure but in terms of looks and features I don't even think you would have to go very far, at least for now. Folders and a new UI, that seems to be what most users are looking forward to right now. Or something like Inkbunny's pools. And I would be perfectly happy with that.
Too many people these days and not just in the furry realm tend to use the Salem witch trial mentality towards accusations. Burn at the stake before solid proof is presented.
More to your point though a proven criminal history doesn't mean a person's skills at a certain job can be ignored and is against state law to discriminate even there. Naturally that depends on the job. After all if it was proven eventually he wouldn't be able to work at a gynecological facility just to use an example. However in this case the crime is just alleged. And really in terms of here or a real job if everyone who was even alleged to have committed a crime couldn't get a job we would have a massive amount of homeless.
I HOPE TO BE SEEING GOOD WORK FROM YOU, SOLDIER.
TO GIVE THOSE UPDATES that, y'know, everyone's been bitching about -- but now its a matter of "who is doing it"
ZAUSH! Just start your work.
You'll be quite alright. Quite.
regardless this crap, how hard would be to move the site to a CSS sheet and then work on the encryption?
the ideal of the new FA is cool and all, but yeah....somehow shit in the past WILL come back to bite you in the butt...you just gotta fucking clean it out/and try your best to prove ur innocent or something? idk....but yeah, hope this feud ends cause yeah, ur bad rep of this is making me think different bout you but i barely know you so whatever i guess? Moreless ima still post art here, nothings going to change my posting appeals but yeah....you were kinda asking for this man. idk
Why hasn't this been implemented yet!? This looks hell of a lot more streamlined then what the site looks like now! I want this like right now!
it might not help because people can be stubborn, and deliberately seek out the negative things about people, true or not. but whatever happens, i hope you will be able to eventually look over this chaos and push it to the side in your life. dont let it get to you.
all in all, ive been extremely irritated by everyone leaving fa over this. it is ridiculous and stupid, and even though i had weasyl before all this, i am now avoiding it like the plague because of all the horrible people now there. i used to look up to them, now i simply feel pity for their awfully closed minds.
Decisions about improving the site were never taken with care of user base. Being owned by one person, it's still up to them to make unpopular decisions.
What I'm getting at is that I'm wondering what sort of design philosophy you have in mind for the redesign?
Good on you for not freaking out over the drama, BTW. That can't be easy.
As for the drama? Eh.
If he wanted to clear this up, it should have been done when it was actually revealed instead of scoffing indignantly about the other person it in twitter. Now it's just way past the point and comes across as insincere and because he stands to lose something.
There’s a good chance that most of the ire comes from the fact that people expect big figures in their subcultures to behave perfectly. Hating starts easy, and builds easy when it comes to big names.
From what you said, I’m pretty sure you didn’t do anything criminally reprehensible. You knew a pretty girl you wanted to have sex with, who didn’t seem opposed to the idea. In your place, I probably would have pushed the suggestion a little as well. I don’t think this ever went into coercion or harassment where she could have reasonably been fearing for her safety.
You probably stepped over one of her limits without noticing, because you didn’t have the same limits as her. Maybe her own limits changed with time, judging by how she seemed to swap around. You got flack for it. And because this is the internet and this is the furry fandom and you’re flipping Zaush, it blew up.
You probably don’t deserve all of this. You made a mistake lots of ordinary people make, but you get more shit about it because this is a fandom we all love, and we want it to show as much integrity as possible.
honestly i dont give a damn about what someone does in their own time. If say a scandal came out where Bill gates raped someone would you stop using all windows products? In fact Bill gates is know as a scam artist but we still use windows products cause they actually work!
Fa NEEEDS a rework, and they need it now, you want to throw zaush aside cause of SUPPOSEDLY raped someone even through there is no solid argument that he did such a thing? Its time for these anonymous white knights to either shut up or put their real name, their real lives up on the chopping block cause that is what you are doing to Zaush, its only fair you do the same
This is just ludicrous the proportions this was blown out of.
And before you ask, no, rape is a heinous crime, I do not sympathize with those whom commit. But how can one say he did or didn't? Where is the proof of one way or the other? Just move on people, it's an art site. If you leave, we'll move past the ever so horrid event soon enough :/
Have fun reading my journal here: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5426270/
Go fig
They couldn't care less about putting any effort into new episodes. They're just catering to the lowest common denominator.
The dead horse they were beating has fossilized.
My stepdad's been watching the simpsons since day one, and he still loves it even today
Has the Simpsons PEAKED? Yes, long ago, however, its still entertaining
If people were not watching the Simpsons, it wouldn't be on the air, despite what your AND my opinion is of it, people are still watching it, thus people are still laughing at it, and resorting to ad hominem attacks against people that like the Simpsons is childish
Trust me. You're talking to an ex fan here. I used to love the Simpsons and Spongebob. (Not Family Guy though. That show has always sucked).
Like the Nostalgia Critic once said in his top 11 best Simpsons episodes. "I really wish the Simpsons would up and DIE so we could talk about what a great impact it had on Comedy as opposed to asking why they are beating a dead horse with another dead horse".
I fucking hate Breaking Bad, doesn't mean I think everyone that watches it is soulless dipshits
and thank god that pony blog was shut down.
Same with making fun of rape victims. It should never be done. Based on personal experiences of my own, jokes about rape and making fun of rape victims can cause the victims to be suicidal.
Sorry,but I don't advocate humor that can drive some over the edge and end their lives. I'm sure some agree with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIcUk2D3km8 Learn to laugh maybe
If you don't like rape jokes, that's 100% your business, but, you can't tell OTHER people not to like rape jokes just because you don't like them
Thanks for seeing my point of view
Not everyone finds the same things funny, but when people start dictating what other people should and shouldn't find funny, that's just censorship
I nearly blew my brains out and made fun of myself quite a bit after words and I did before hand too, had pre cancer in my jaw bone, made fun of myself with that too, was in the ER with a blood clot partying in my brain and I told the nurse who panicked and shoved the IV in with nothing to catch the blast of blood coming out of my arm "looks like I sprung a leak" then proceed to pass back out. But then again, I know how to have a sense of humor about my misfortunes and I know I'm but a small part of the world. Some people cant even handle filling out their taxes without going insane or play a video game that has item management without panic attacking.
The thing people need to do is step back, and understand, that fiction is just that, a joke is a joke, a movie, music, just because they are saying things that may upset you dosent mean those things are happening. Some need to learn how to step back and breath deep, maybe say something to themselves to keep them calm.
I have arachnophobia, I play games that have massive spiders, look at pictures of camel spiders, I know that it wont hurt me, some cant.
This prolly wont make much sense, but I'm tired and expressing what I am trying to state is rather difficult.
And I applaude you for laughing at yourself at times like that. I sadly, can't do that. I wish I could, but call me pessimistic at times.
But as said, agree to disagree :)
It was a question directed at Zaush that I really would like answered. I wanted to see why he would tell those jokes if he claimed he took rape seriously. And in my opinion, rape should never be joked about, and I wanted to see his point of view.
I ask a lot of questions and I apologize is people are taking it in that negative way. I just happen to be a natural Devil's Advocate.
Ask yourself this: Do you consider Mel Brooks a scumbag? The man made many pieces of comedy about one of the greatest atrocities in humand history. An event were millions were not only killed but also raped, mutilated, starved, vivisected and a whole bunch of other horrible nasty things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0sw22v7C_0
Why do people make jokes about 911? Why do people who have terminal cancer joke about it. Why do Jews joke about the Holocaust? Because humor is one of the OLDEST coping mechanism in the human book. When you make fun of something it looses it's power. Something terrifying, threatening, something overwhelming suddenly becomes something that can be expressed, that can be understood and in the end can be dis-powered and reduced to nothing. Humor empowers. It empowers a gay person when facing anguish and yes it can also empower in cases of rape. Humor is the most powerful tool humanity has to deal with overwhelming terror and fear.
Taking rape seriously does not make a person a model citizen.
It just means that the actual event of someone taking physical advantage of another is something they take seriously.
However...
It does not mean that they aren't still jerks about things and don't make Jokes about rape, its free speech. What I care about is actions, not words. Though you seem to want to do some sort of character assassination before truly going through and realizing that the constitution allows for this. As long as he isn't physically harming or threatening your life or body or possessions he can swing within a inch of your face.
I understand that rape-jokes are free speech, I never said it wasn't. My comment was my opinion. In my point of view, and my own experience, rape jokes can lead people to suicide if they have been victims of rape, jokes that lead people to suicide (in my opinion), aren't funny.
I think that can make him a jerk in my eyes (though the things I stated above are the main reasons why I think he's a jerk). Key word: my eyes, other people can think whatever the hell they want.
Sadly, this is way too late. The damage to yourself and FA has been done. There needs to be a showing of some kind of good faith to those who are fleeing unabated and the first thing I would suggest is to step aside. I am sorry to say this but the court of public opinion has judged and convicted you. You appear to have the best of intentions in trying to help a community you care for. If you want any chance to see your project truly take flight, you can't be associated with it. Please for any chance of FA surviving this and other administrative blunders, do what is best for the community and not yourself.
Matters have moved beyond guilt or innocence. Any good company when faced with negative public opinion must cut bait with the issue that is creating this image. It makes no difference about facts any longer. No pride, no right or wrong can be salvaged from this mess. Right now, from a PR perspective, this is a no win situation. The faster the controversy is lessened by removing the focus of the negative attention, FA can finally get back to fixing the site and prove they can live up to their promises.
Why the fuck would you sit on something like this if you had your innocence to prove? It makes absolutely zero sense to sit back and say nothing when somebody is saying 'you raped me'.
But, as is possibly the case here, some would delete everything after a certain date while keeping an archive on their personal computer and not online, bringing it up once again when it becomes relevant.
I'm unaware of the existence of a place that archives absolutely everything that was ever put up onto FA, or at least one open to public.
Essentiall, yeah. The whole issue here on FA is a perfect, big, fat case studie of this:
Confirmation bias - The tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs.
People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).
The protest is always loudest when the accusations hit the truest.
No, it is not. It is just a snowball effect rolling down the mountain, but instead of snow it is uninformed people, pricks, or just people looking to cut some throats. Just because one Sheeple baaa's and the others in the herd echo does not mean that what they are saying is true, it just makes it louder. Mob mentality has a way of hinging on Buzz words, like Rape, or Rapist. This gathers other people around because they feel it is their moral obligation to go on a witch hunt.
(uninformed people spreading lies turned up to the highest volume still equates to uninformed people spreading lies, so does he have no right to say anything to the contrary even though up to this point he is factually innocent?)
Personally, I do agree he should have posted this stuff sooner. However, what is done is done. Better late than never, rather than Too little too late. Too little too late would be if some pathetic Dramaqueen took this stuff to irl and killed him before his side was out [I'm sure we have some psychotic people that have and currently are contemplating this just because his name was mentioned amidst the words Rape and Woman].
Though his character [being arrogant or whatever you personally feel] has no standing in this issue, being arrogant or a jerk is not a crime. It just makes some people clash heavily with said person and in some cases a easier target for people to join in and throw mud at.
Frankly, Zaush is full of it. Personally, I don't give a shit about the rape accusations at all - I have no foundations upon which to base an informed opinion on the matter, therefore I am electing to rather wisely keep my mouth shut on the issue. With that said, however, given how unsavoury his character is, I would certainly not put rape or coercion past him (and just so you're informed, even coercion can legally be considered rape).
However.
Zaush has, time and again, shown himself to be nothing more than an egotistical, full-of-himself jackass, always ready to put others down if it furthered his own goals. The only way he rose to prominence in this venture at all is by pissing off far, far better, far more deserving people until they left the project. He refuses to give any evidence of his qualifications, electing instead to stay quiet about them and say 'I'll show you - privately'. This hardly engenders trust with the community you're trying to remain a part of, does it?
Being an arrogant jerk isn't a crime, no. But it tells a lot about your character, and frankly, I wouldn't want somebody of Zaush's character working on FA's sensitive information. That is why I want the retard to GTFO.
As far as his qualifications, what do you want out of this? Other websites he has done? A college certification? I mean aside from being bad at being his own PR, I see no crime. This is how he chooses to reveal information and hey, I asked for information and I got it and everything seems on the up and up.
Also on Coercion, it 'can' and it 'cannot' I follow the believe that it 'cannot' because all it is is just a clever way of saying persuasion and there is nothing wrong with persuading people to have sex, sure it wasn't well thought out in this case but she ultimately willingly kept coming back and was not physically forced or threatened into the event, and that in and of itself allows for evidence that would dampen the fuse right there.
Sure, the situation got worse but at least it is out there. Too little too late is better than never and letting people assume that he is some monstrous woman rapist in the shadows hiding underneath our beds at night waiting to flip us over and have his way with us.
I haven't called your competence as a web developer into question. Mainly because I don't know your qualifications.
I have questioned your decision to use a technology you (from your own twitter posts) apparently know little about. Like it or not, it's a valid criticism. It's the same reason that I don't suddenly write sites in Grails for work... our projects use either Spring or raw JSP/Servlets so not surprisingly, that's what we know.
I have my fair share of shit stories from that same period in my life too.
I've also dealt with my fair share of people who didn't comprehend things that happened between us and who's own over-thinking left them with a twisted mess of "what REALLY happened" in their head.
I say this as a female victim of a very very brutal rape and beating, so I don't want people who read this (as they will) thinking I'm some person who doesn't sympathize with REAL rape victims).
People will forget this in 3 months, just as they did last time.
I, for one, am glad a capable person like you has been chosen to make the changes this site so sorely needed.
I think both you and 'Neer have handled this as well as was possible for people who no fuckin' PR team to back them. You're not politicians, you're not gods, you're just some people on a web page. You shouldn't be asked to deal with 100,000 people's crazy, be it in regards to this situation or any other.
I don't envy you but I do wish you the best. Keep that head high. We ALL make mistakes and we've all done/said/been involved with things we're not super proud of in hindsight. No one here has any right to punish or otherwise judge you.
Just keep doin' what you do and make your best efforts to choose the right thing to say/do when faced with future indiscretions.
I tip my hat to you, good sir.
One thing I noticed from reading what others wrote, was that most of their information contradicted. What one person wrote to explain the drama and what happened, someone else wrote something completely different. It's like that game telephone, where a message goes around a circle and comes back mutated. So, I did my own research and made my own assumptions.
I for one am excited for Project Phoenix, and I believe it to be in good hands.
Just looking forward this drama to finish.
I wouldn't judge a person based off of something petty they did in the past. Whats done is done, and from what I understand, what was done was easily misunderstood, but I can see anyone going through that kind of drama. You just happen to be more popular and thus people would notice things like that more, and make a bigger deal out of it.
All I care about is how much better of a site this place will look and be in the future. If it weren't for you, then who else? When? This place needed a major overhaul. Honestly I really want to actually thank you for helping FA out.
It's not my place to tell you to step down; so I won't..nor will I take a side.
By Zaush, an hour ago
I have a lot to say, and this journal is going to focus on a few important points
*shits all over keyboard*"
But also, this guy probably doesn't even care to begin with unfortunately.
Complete nonchalance being shown when discussion of rape was brought up.
Statements that are very victim-blaming in nature (In general regarding rape),
The fact that Staff made it CRYSTAL clear that they don't care about the feelings of their users
Trampling on our rights and liberties as users using censorship and banishment
^All of that was enough to make me want to leave. I'm still considering it, but seeing as a majority of my commission business comes from here, sadly I cannot.
I think the best thing you can do right now is step down.
- No evidance of rape was given so not getting upset over it is not the same as being nonchalant
Statements that are very victim-blaming in nature (In general regarding rape),
- No evidance of rape was given so standing up for 'innocent till proven guilty' is not victim-blaming or pro-rape.
The fact that Staff made it CRYSTAL clear that they don't care about the feelings of their users
- having a policy that does not permit users to slander other users IS 'caring about the feelings of their users'
Trampling on our rights and liberties are users using censorship and banishment
- The owners of FA have laid out rules and regulations for this site. It is their right as the site owners. Your rights and liberties do not trump theirs.
My first two points were not about discussion of this particular case. I'm talking about when rape in general, was brought up. People making rape jokes, or making very victim-blaming comments.
I never made a stand one whether I think Zaush raped anybody or not. Because I wasn't there, I don't know Zaush or Ferality, and there's no evidence pointing either way, so I can't.
My third point, regarding the Staff caring about the users, was not about the people who were slanderous being silenced. It's about the fact that it should have been getting-punched-in-the-face obvious that putting him on staff was going to cause a shit storm of unseen proportions. Both because of the rumors floating around him, and the fact that a good chunk of people just don't like him, for one reason or another. And they did it anyways. And when the users make it CLEAR they were not comfortable or happy with him being on Staff, they were shown their voice did not matter.
And my last point, while I agree that anyone being malicious or slanderous deserved the punishment they got, not all of the comments that got hidden and resulted in a suspension, were deserving. Because they were not slanderous or malicious in any way. Staff was clearly trying to cover up something that frankly can't be, because it'd be like trying to cover an Elephant with a napkin.
what if this is just some other phoenix' team member having beef with adam and we're all getting trolled into a shitstorm while some other sinister motive is at hand?
what if this is just some other phoenix' team member having beef with adam and we're all getting trolled into a shitstorm while some other sinister motive is at hand?"
Ahhhh, please no no nononononononon! Don't even joke about that one. The last thing we need now is our own Furry version of 911-Truthers.
what if all this shit is some smoke screen to something bigger?
you know~ keep the people preoccupied
-w- just watch~
At least make porn of the drama, fellas.
This whole bullshit is nothing more then SJW's bringing up the past. So please. Continue with the crying back and forth. I'm enjoying it very much.
this is quickly becoming the new /b/ isn't it? ;d
Weeeell, to be fair, that's not really a new interpretation. Dracula has been viewed since... well, "Dracula" as an allegory for forbidden sexual desires and rape. Though, it was traditionally more in the context of "Those dirty foreigners who invade our good English shores, rape our virturous womenfolk and turn them into wanton sluts and whore and we as good British men are not sure if we should be horrified or get a huge boner out of it... and then, be horrified." Victorians were rather neurotic about sex and such.
Don't worry Zaush this will all blow over sooner or later.. if people don't like it they can go to their Weasyl or IB or DA what ever they wanna use
That seems very biased and unfair to him.
Good luck, my dear.
I am on no one's side anymore so that is all I have to say.
I dislike drama. I do indeed.
But I think that it is good that you at least spoke about this matter.
*Bows Politely*
I don't want us to destroy ourselves from the inside out. ^^; *mews*
Sad how disagreement leads to crying if we don't agree woth them
During this whole thing, I haven't known WHAT to believe. None of it escaped the realms of rumor. ^^;
Hearing your side gives me a much more stable take on the situation. I don't want ANYONE to hurt at ALL, for any reason.
I'm praying for you and everyone involved or affected in any way by all of this.
The sooner we can be a giant happy fuzzy family again, the better. =^w^= <3
A. One destroys your entire sense of self-esteem and seeks nothing more than to cause destruction, chaos, and despair, willfully ruining the lives of innocent individuals... and the other has sex with you first.
The only comparison I can draw is to a famous magic the gathering player a few years ago and his very public break up and threats he got from a girl he was dating. She was in love with him and admits to that but when she found out she was dating a magic player she freaked out due to the preconceived notion of what that community was like. There are a lot of people out there who see magic players as a bunch of degenerate assholes who have only their well fair in mind and care little for the community or other people. In her words she said magic players are assholes who treat others like shit. This public dispute happened on a public forum know as twitter and well there is still some bad blood around due to this towards magic players and pros. Now I understand this is not similar in that it wasn't a rape allegation which should always be taken seriously regardless of who it comes from or the reasons behind it it is a very nasty word these days and has a very negative context assigned to it. It is akin to saying the N word these days when it comes out you can't take it back and its damage is always there regardless of what happens after or what facts come to light later.
Now the point I'm trying to make is this is a very public forum and there are people who don't agree with the way we live our lives or how we enjoy what we enjoy. This is a time now where Twitter and Facebook are real things like it or not we are always in the public eye. And an allegation like this even though it is still only an allegation looks bad for this site and all who use it. It has been proven time and time again people remember the negatives far longer than they ever remember the positives.
Now attacking those who left or even banning people for speaking up about this is really not going to ever help the matter. How can you say how this word an allegation should affect them or their feelings about this site. Until you know someone or you've dealt with this word or this type of allegation yourself than you have no idea the damage it can do or the hurt it can cause. The problem here is this is a public site and he has been appointed to a fairly high position on the site which helps put him in the public eye. There is nothing out there that can take this black eye away it will always be there even if proven it never happened. The information is out there and can never be taken back.
What happens now is pretty much damage control as well as a little bit of trying to mend broken fences. There is nothing that can fully make this better or change what happened. Now is when we find out how strong the leadership is on this site as they do what they can to repair any damage that has been done. And before you say its only about the site I'm sorry but you are wrong in that fact when it moves over into twitter and other sites it becomes a very public issue and encompasses more than the site.
If you don't understand what I mean about the twitter thing look at very public entities who use twitter. Once they put out a bad tweet or release some bad information or anything on twitter once its out there its out there to stay and takes a long time if ever for it to go away. There are some sports entities and public starts who have lost endorsement and charities due to what has been said or come into the public eye via twitter. Its sad to see this but there is little that escapes the public's attention these days and often times the backlash goes for years now. So now its all up to the leadership here how they handle all of this.
I Patiently await to see what the long term fallout will be :D
I'm sorry to say, but this journal came too late, after days of drama, hundreds (if not thousands) of journals of people that heard the story from a who-knows-what source and spread it further. Many people left FA. I hope this will somehow reach them and make them think this through.
The only thing that REALLY got me was the reach out on twitter, but you seem to have summed that up in a way that makes sense. Again, you don't know me at all, but I DO apologize for doubting your talents for something as thus.
On another note, It's probably best you want to stay away from administration of that kind. No matter what is said, there are ALWAYS going to be people who will hate on you because of the past implications of your sexual deviancy.
...Just how bad is the coding for FurAffinity?
And now I have problems going to the toilet
can i help you in any way
let's say, by making a huge shitstorm drama, would that help?
Those who say they are leaving are still here causing drama, trolling people who speak anything about anything in regards to a situation that wasn't even about them in any way possible...
I think when you guys banned people you missed quite a few that deserve it right now. Not solely because they are wrong in their opinions but the fact they keep attacking anyone who says anything they don't like.
Makes me really wish I tried for the admin job when I had the chance and was asked too, I wouldn't mind at all being called the heartless bitch that removed these people from FA for the better.
People just need to calm down, relax and if they want to help support rape victims... they need to do it on their own time and in a way that will actually help someone. Not bring a bad situation like this back into the light (That may or may not of even happened at all...) and enjoy the life THEY have a bit more.
Having had a sibling who actually was proven to be a rape victim leaves me rather torn. One hand I know what its like to be there around the victims of it and what mess they go through. Yet on the other hand there is no proof other than he said she said and from what I gather the woman never once even mentioned rape. I actually remember talking about this with a certain someone back when you applied for the job of coder.
I believe I even called it when I said this was going to happen. Though I didn't realize how gullible people were or how they would holy war someone for just the mention they may or may not be involved...
I don't have a damn clue what happened, no one does but you and this girl and seeing as things have went their way I don't think it's fair to anyone to be bringing all this back into the light.
Eh, at this point I will say that this situation I could care less anymore and its not because I don't hate rape or that I don't support rape victims. It's just this whole damn community has taken this to such an extreme without any sort of proof or any sort of -anything- really other than some text based info over the internet that I can't support either side of this.
You'd think that people who indulge in Reddit would know how easy it is to fake documentation... But alas, people are going to badger you forever.
I'm proud of you though, for not running away and standing your ground. For at least trying to prove yourself innocent in the eyes of the mob who's trying to lynch you. Takes someone with real courage to do so even in an online community...
The only thing I have to say is that you guys better come through with your promise to make FA better and don't let the big guy (Dragoneer) forget about it this time around. I would like to see this site compete with Weasyl and burn it to the ground honestly.
And that's all I have to say on this, my last comment on this holy war of shame and idiocy.
Though as far as weasyl goes, if weasyls are anything like ferrets, we just need to wait for the spring. If there are no boy weasyls around, nature will take its course.
However, will always be a big fan of your art and good luck with the project, don't let others take you down! ( Heh I know you won't. xD )
mfw no-one in the UK gives two shits.
Definately a brave yet detailed step to address the situation, Zaush. Seems like it was a necessary thing to do and you have done it in a professional manner.
Best of luck with the FA overhaul, I'd love to see this place looking good and running smooth :D
Without evidence one way or another, I prefer to give you the benefit of the doubt. The whole drama is stupid furries being stupid furries because furries can be stupid and nail their tails to a bandwagon without realizing they can't run fast enough to keep up.
That said, this was indeed a good read, but do forgive me as I don't take it as the gospel truth either. I'm the sort of person who likes as much information from as many sources as I can get; and know a bit about the tendencies of said sources. But you present a good case.
If you agree with the site the don't go on it. Simple as that, you don't need a huge ceremony like your entire country is switching to capitalism, this is a website, a FURRY website at that, this isn't a democracy. you are free to leave if you don't agree. And there's no reason to slander anyone's names if you don't have to, noone life is being depended on it.
(That being said, I don't want to argue about it, this is what i think)
I'm with you on this, it's not cool to destroy someone's name and drag it through dirt over some fabrications you've been told by someone on the internet.
[Please do not debate with me.]
I will just say this, I do hope, now with time passing, you've grown and matured when it comes to decisions about relationships and sexual interactions. I get you prefer skin to skin contact in such activities, but seriously man, wrap it up. Far worst things one can catch in relationships. Primarily kids. Those things kill you slowly in many different ways when you aren't planning to actually have one. You'll save yourself a world of less more serious drama that way.
So I don't think you should step down at all, I say you use this and you put everything you have into helping rebuild the site, make it your masterpiece and show everyone you have the skills and talent and all the people who left FA will feel like crap after hearing about how much better its gotten.
Power to ya man
People should really calm down because:
-No one is dead
-No one is in the hospital
-No one is in jail
-Accussations are not true, not good and they are not a useful information for our daily life
Nothing is happening please!
Just breath, guys and girls
I just see someone trying to change for better
Though as far as weasyl goes, if weasyls are anything like ferrets, we just need to wait for the spring. If there are no boy weasyls around, nature will take its course.
Glad you put in your two cents.
I think he gets what I mean.
I hope this will be a turning point for you so you can be at peace again and keep up your good design and programming work.
The internet with its waves of social media is very quick to judge and often confuses fiction and rumors as facts. Unfortunately, it does that so much that it can even trigger a perceived mass exodus from a community site.
If only everyone was a little more careful about what they posted and forwarded with strong bad emotions.
Just keep keepin' on, old friend. Let's see what you can do with FA. :)
It's like some people make a living from this.
The modern version of DDoSing someone: spam it with drama.
And I was right.
This entire drama loop DID happen before. My memory works, huzzah!
Either way, hopefully we can now move to more productive endeavours. Like eating excessive amounts of pie and performing thorough background checks.
Also, being innocent until proven guilty, because hearing it all around you in a flock of parrots playing telephone is not the best place to find reliable data.
That's not to say I believe all Zaush just said, but hey, innocent until proven otherwise, and at least he spit out his part, so get bent, parrots.
If there's one good thing to come of this whole drama issue, it's that I've realized that a lot of individuals I've been interacting with are at risk of having Borderline Personality Disorder.
Individuals with BPD are noted for having a tendency to feel emotions very deeply (and that will change at a moment's notice), and also for what's known as "black-and-white thinking" or "splitting."
Basically, to someone with BPD, people are either paragons of virtue, or reprehensible aspects of vice. There are no in-betweens. In fact, they will apply those labels to the same person, alternating between loving and hating them on a seeming whim.
This leads to situations where such individuals can cause vast amounts of emotional and physical harm to themselves or others.
Borderline Personality Disorder is a very, very serious condition, and if untreated, can have tragic results.
However, there is hope! If you or someone you know has been exhibiting the previously-mentioned symptoms, please please go to the following link:
http://www.bpdresourcecenter.org/
Doing so can save lives; one of those lives may even be your own.
I posted a journal stating my opinion on the matter a few days ago. the gist of it was, exactly the same as your Conclusion to this journal. I am glad to see that you posted your side, and presented the opposing argument to what has become a meaningless shitstorm of lies and backwards opinions based on "he said, she said".
i wish you the best~
you sir win the interwebs for the day
RAPEDOLLARS INSTEAD?!?!?!
*runs screaming into the night laughing manically*
But a PR address sculpted for days are "Mind blowing" "so true" and "logical" because if a person says a thing then It's obviously true, even it's years after it should have been addressed, suspiciously lines up with the speaker standing to lose something, and the evidence must been pursued directly and voluntarily, and has only just now been collected despite it having been an issue forever.
Dunno how you'd shorten that, though.
* Long chat logs are often unreliable due to tampering, but crafted FA journals are ÜBER LEGIT (nailed it)
But there is this one bit in the last paragraph of the 'Scandal' portion of this journal: 'I initiated a remote connection to one of my machines back in California, and screen capped all of the logs I had in Adium between me and this girl, asking a friend to distribute them through the usual drama channels in hopes of people reading them and realizing that her claims did not reflect the reality of our involvement. (The same logs I’m paraphrasing above.) The commotion died down with time, and I assumed that the issue had been forgotten for the most part, apart from the occasional fanatic or stalker insisting I was guilty.'
Nobody has a vidcam recording every private moment of day to day life, and not everything goes down with witnesses around, so "proof" isn't really going to happen. What can make a big difference in public opinion though, is how you handle it, and the attitude you show. He was largely disinterested when it originally got discovered. This is the first time he's really tried to make his side known. It's hard to take this too seriously given after the original bomb went off, all he seemed to feel like doing was making tweets about "typical case of woman changing her mind". It's one thing to want to bite at someone who accused you, but another to sneer at victim blaming in general. Did he have all this 'proof' back then, but just decide "Naw, I'll let everyone hate me, and just pretend nothing happened"?
The logs do bring about the element of reasonable doubt again, if only because we have the other side of the story to finally weigh up, but it comes after a previous disinterest in the subject, and is made with damage control in mind, relating to his new position in FA. I dunno, it just seems insincere, like a token of afterthought to a problem that could have been nipped in the bud way back when. You don't have to be a PR master, but an honest address back when it was relevant rather than an overly detailed and purposeful surgery of a response would have been way better, and seem way less suspect.
That being said however,
Our gloriously incompetent FA overlords as per usual handled the situation to such a shitty degree that the likes of 4chan would cry tears of joy at the amount of lulz both generated and that could have been prevented. I'm not leaving the site as many others are though. FA however has not earned much of my future support.
So congrats FA, in my years of browsing on the web, you are the first site that I have ever completely no-scripted.
Opted out of viglink, and have rigidly enforced all disconnect protocols on.
and by the end of the day I thought
This is a personal matter, from the private life of a staff member. Whether or not the allegations are true or not, it's not our place to judge it, or get involved based on unclear details. Nor distil a person's ENTIRE IDENTITY to just one action that isn't entirely certain. I'll leave FA if I find there's a problem with the functionality of the site, not what I feel about the personal life of a staff member
And I stand by that. I think that it's so incredibly silly that there are people who up and left because this, and that other people decided to follow them. We're a community of like-minded individuals and artists that share common interests, were not a crazed mob. We can't forget that there are PEOPLE behind the screen, REAL people with real lives and personalities and feelings. You can't just pretend that you know everything about a person, you can't just assume that you automatically know what a person is like.
We know nothing for certain. We've heard both sides, we can argue the morality, everybody can say what they want about innocent or guilty, but it doesn't change that NONE of us, can honestly say we know anything for certain. And that the more important thing, is the functionality of the website. Of which I have had no problems, other than those obnoxious downtimes here and there.
thank you for stating your side of things Zaush, and I sincerely hope that everybody actually puts some real thought into their feelings. And on the bright side, anyone who was willing to just outright lash out without any real consideration, have shipped off to other sites.
On a side note...
To you, the administration, I thank you. I thank you for putting up with all this shit, drama, bandwagoning, etc etc that comes with dealing with furs. I've been here for going on 8 years, and while there have been issues and bumps, you've managed to keep the site going. Not an easy, or cheap, task.
To all those who criticize the administration, I say this. You dont like how it's run? Take over. Buy it form Dragoneer, get rid of AAAAALLLLLLLL the old staff, hire your own, new staff, and show us you can do better. Please, go right ahead. I'm sure dragoneer, and the whole staff, could sue a break from the stress.
As stated above, FA is NOT a democracy. I would also like to add that, as a private website with a terms of service contract, freedom of speech does not truly exist here.
https://www.weasyl.com/~Zaush
2. Changes are always good (about new site version)
3. But Weasyl much better then FA (I don't think that any design changes will change the situation)
...so come on and join beautiful and modern Weasyl ^____^
The site needs fixing, unless you know someone else willing to do the work he is, for the same cost then either shutup, putup, or toss a fit, leave a large drama filled I'm leaving fa journal and be done with it. I'm staying, no real evidence and a shit ton of hear say means it's bullshit both directions.
im not saying anything about this other than that
GL, man, hope this levels off soon.
In some ways you sound forceful, and even not willing to wear condoms for the girl you were pursuing? That rubs me the wrong way.
Also saying, " ...one of her swinging partners, an older guy with a larger income." -Totally not needed, perhaps you have more growing to do.
I had a better opinion of you before this journal.
I was wondering if you can link us to a few of those product names or company names of things you have built. I see you have many years of this, even just 1-3 names would be helpful in satisfying my curiosity.
I just want this information to be displayed as it'd help solve the
"I urge those out there to think for themselves, especially regarding sensationalist media that’s nothing more than he-said-she-said, or an attacks on someone’s character using out of context quotes, or even presenting outright fictional data that is protected by anonymity and firewalls against litigation."
So we have more than just the he said he did/built things.
You're asking a large community to trust your qualifications without tendering a resume for them to review publicly, instead preferring to simply say 'I worked from 20XX to 20XX at Herp De Derp Inc, fixing Shit and doing Bollocks, I also did some Tits and Wank at FuckShit LTD and I've limited experience in Dick.'
No sane company is going to want to take you on without seeing proof of your resume. And, frankly, until I see public evidence of those qualifications being tendered, I'm going to treat you like you're full of shit.
Fuck these pricks.
Here's hoping the majority of those people threatening to leave the site will actually do so, taking their drama and whining along with them.
Anyhow, for your sake, and all of FA, I hope this blows over soon. And good luck with those site updates. ( That is, if you still have any interest in working on that project, after this whole mess. )
However, all this aside, the more I read, the more I doubted. Though, personally, some of your tweets made me unhappy with how they were worded - but then again, this is the internet, and intent of meaning doesn't always translate well.
What I can say relevant to the matter was that I am kind of proud of you for coming forward and being willing to talk about it. Because my major problem was with the explosive (and unprofessional, imo) reaction from the staff. People were even getting banned for trying to answer someone's question of "What is going on, why is everyone so upset they are leaving?".
I think, personally, that you posting this is the only "smart" thing I've seen in this whole drama-splosion, and you are also right - the site needs updated. Period.
And security being updated would be great. I have, for example, a stalker on here. And I can block him, but he can still read my every comment, journal, and art description, and even persists in favoriting my stuff - even images of my fursona in the nude or otherwise in a naughty position. I know he follows my journals because he is now watching me on both my new Weasyl and SF after I announced them a few weeks ago. This leads me to wish the blocking system was more effective, or disabled them from at the very least, viewing your page.
But really, the site cannot remain as is and continue to support the community it has. It just can't. It needs an update. Then again, please don't blame me if I doubt that update will come this time either. There's only so many times you can hear a promise to have it not fulfilled and still believe.
Also, I admire you for how calmly this appears to be written, although I can assume you are very upset over all this.
TL;DR
Thank for handling things in a calm and (at least semi-)professional way which is how it all should have been handled in the first place.
I have no interest in taking any sides unless there was an actual case presented instead of a witch burning....
Get an admin position over at Weasyl, instead. I hear they have lots of new users, so I'm sure they'd appreciate having you on the team.
It shall be... glorious.
( Sorry, couldn't help it. )
like we need that puts ruining shit over there
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/9d/9d8.....97fb8f7ece.jpg
http://lolsnaps.com/upload_pic/YouE.....inMe-20388.jpg
As long as FA keep giving me my free porn, I don't give a fuck who's in charge
are you serious people?
not the court of I'm a user on FA and my opinion is right!
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedict.....+proven+guilty
read it it describes innocence til proven guilty as such: a fundamental protection for a person accused of a crime, which requires the prosecution to prove its case against the defendant beyond a reasonable doubt. This is opposite from the criminal law in many countries, where the accused is considered guilty until he/she proves his/her innocence or the government completely fails to prove its case.
Either way...I only just NOW heard about all this crap happening...and for me? I just don't care...it doesn't affect me in any way shape or form
That being said...Zaush, wish ya luck with getting the updates out...lord knows FA was needing an update sooner or later
Now can we just get on with the rest of our lives and drop all of this?
Not directing the question at you Zaush, just everyone else who has been spouting overly sensationalized drama.
There is always the question about reliability of a source.
"Show proof"
"there are logs"
"Logs can be maniuplated"
...
Well. At least there is proof. I don't support the behavior of Zaush, of the logs I have seen, but behavior is the one thing. Actions are something else. And I have not been there when it happened, just most of us. We can only rely on the information given to us and I don't want to judge, but I have to. Either the woman lies or Zaush lies. Or maybe the truth is somewhere inbetween.
You can choose which side to believe. I heared of too many cases of false accuse for rape, that I rather see it as a weapon to shut someone down. And this is happening right now. But we can choose luckily what to think and feel.
AND YOU DIDN'T OFFER ME ANY!?!
The problem is that this scandal exists, not whether you are at fault or not. And that's nothing to say of the massive schism it's created on this website between rape-apologists ("If there was no police investigation it never happened", among other remarks) and white-knights, leaving moderates like myself sitting here wondering what the hell is wrong with all of you.
Don't be the Rob Ford of the furry community. Step down from being a part of this website's development.
To everyone saying that because police were not involved, there was no possible way it could've happened, the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network has statistics gathered from 2000-2005 that reports 60% of all rapes/sexual assaults do not get reported: http://www.rainn.org/statistics/ It is not unbelievable for a rape to go unreported, and discrediting claims because of that smacks of victim blaming, which is also highly common when it comes to the subject of rape.
The more you know.
I don't believe the rape nonsense at all... but in the public eye a few vocal folks deem you a rapist even without any proof of that. However there is even a much larger group of people who while don't believe it still think about it the "hmmm maybe..." crowd who at the first sign of anything borderline sexual harassment will look back at this and go "thought so" its a ticking Drama Bomb.
That aside your journal here while nice to read...is too little too late. The longer this goes on more and more damage is being done to the sites brand as a whole. So, stop trying to weather the shit storm and remove yourself from the project before this reaches the point of no return.
I don't know enough to care either way what happened, but do you honestly think you staying on board is helping at all whatsoever? I have no doubts about your capabilities as a coder or what have you, but the mere fact alone your name will be on will scare off quite a good bit of people, or refuse others who don't know better or who have "sheep mentality" to leave/stay away from FA as well.
Just my two cents.
So... this will do nothing but serve to embolden people who are white knighting the victim and people who are going on their own personal witch hunts just because they have strong feelings and react to the word "rape" without reading both sides before letting their emotions get super charged.
Long story short?
If the so called 'victim' never sent such notes, the notes would have never been found, the notes never leaked, and the drama you and everyone else is here to see would be non-existent.
kthnxbye.
I still have no opinion other than people are sheep.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcE5aDTszrY
Simply put Sebek. All he did was Coerce her into having sex WILLINGLY mind you, he did NOT lure her into his van with candy and the promises of meeting bugs bunny.
She said yes after a string of "no"'s, felt bad afterwards... those feelings welled up, she went to Neer and then the notes got leaked. So... shove your self righteous sarcasm back where it came from buddy and I'm not talking your mouth or mind.
It is innocent until proven guilty and there is not substantial evidence to mark him as guilty of being more than a Jerk. A few chat logs wont work especially when [if you asked for the chat logs on his side] he has his own.
Here is what Rape means.
Rape
1 [reyp]
noun
1.
the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
Lets look at the dictionary's own definition: the Unlawful Compelling through physical force of duress to have sexual intercourse.
Was physical force of Duress used from what we all know?
Threats? No.
Violence? No.
Constraints? No.
Other actions to bear on someone to do something against their will or better judgement? No.
Why? Because she willingly went into the room came back MULTIPLE times even after being asked. Rape does not cover feeling sour over the event afterwards.
Duress: threats, violence, constraints, or other action brought to bear on someone to do something against their will or better judgment.
cant wait for the updates :)
I'm still going to remain neutral, as this whole thing is frankly none of my business. I'm glad to have seen your side of the story, though.
I'm STILL picking up the scraps of ruined relationships after the false accusations against me from MONTHS ago over something minor that was handled very badly. I urge people to take a step back and think about how their actions are going to affect people, and to think about all sides of a story, to see what real evidence is actually out there, and to see what is just rumor.
I'll repeat: I'm not taking sides. I'm not even saying what I do or don't believe. I'm telling people to calm down and think for themselves.
to do anything they didn't want and I hope this drama will stop swiftly.
Then again... a LOT of furries feed off of this stuff so it's most likely going to drag on a bit. -.-
here's hoping this all blows over soon. i hate going from website to website. forum to forum and only seeing this and hearing "have you heard whats going on, on FA?!" and "I'm done with FA! Everybody go to weasyl and abandon this site!" even though so many artists are so integrated into FA already. we're effectively forcing them to move and start over because all of this schoolyard he said she said bullshit. :p
glad that everybody on here's being somewhat mature. but this shit shouldn't have started and/or been made public in the first place. just my opinion.
~Audryn
sorry I dont agree with any of this BS what so ever, and the half of the half of going on about qualifications and team cohesion? I'm sorry but there ARE times when things get heated on projects..(course this part I'm saying with out really know I'll read whatever later) and with most in the dark abit some finer details to this mess your words arent worth very much. More to the point its drama novas like this is why we can never have nice things, I'm looking for to the change after 6-7 years of being on FA if it runs better whose to argue that, most of this sounds like PR issues, NEEDLESS
Zaush I wish you luck and hope for the best, alot of people have been run out of fa for less and honestly I hate to be seeing more artist leave cause of nonsense.
Side note: for you nay Sayers, why make a journal saying your leaving FA? why not like some people just have an account across all the sites? drama become far less of an issues with yourself when you ARENT INVOLVED IN IT. I have a DA, sofurry, weasyl, ink bunny you dont like one then dont check in as often. Stop back seat driving.
Sadly many people already take you being a rapist as a fact and probably won't even bother to read through this.
Even if what you say may or may not be entirely made up or at least bending the truth, I believe you.
That said, I hope this mess turns out alright for you.
Weasyl weasyl?
Weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl, weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl. Weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl! Weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl. Weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl weasyl."
I swear, that must be all that has gone through some people's heads these past few days, my inbox has been certifiably spammed with Weasyl s**t.
What I care about is "Did the event happen?"
"No?"
Then let me drink my coffee then.
1. Have you worked as a part, or the leader of, a coding team? (LinkedIn profile, maybe?)
2. Will your code be kept proprietary like it was under Yak, or will you be releasing it to the owner/staff, so they can update it as needed, should you not be available?
The first question will answer a lot of other questions for me. The second is the nicest way I can say that we would prefer Yak not be a part of this project.
I remember hearing about your "scandal" a while back but it was on Encyclopedia Dramatica and we all know how that site is like. Personally, I don't know you well enough to think of you as a horrible person so that's why I, along with many others wouldn't have anything to say about the accusations. With that said, I am happy you learned from your past as you came to a more reasonable (for yourself) conclusion of what you'd want in a relationship. I wish you the best and for the future, just remember what you've said and been through to make rational choices.
That being said? This witch-hunt is terribly unfair to you; it's not right you're being crucified over something that there's no proof that you've done. Whether or not you did what you're accused of, you're innocent until proven guilty, no matter what the court of public opinions says. These claims that you're a sexual predator are very unfair, given how much of this information is based on information hearsay, and I've done what little I can to try and convince people not to assume guilt without proper proof. It's not right, and I don't like standing by when people accuse someone when it's impossible for them to have all the facts in the situation, especially since this is all on the internet.
As much as I am not a fan, I hope you can get your name cleared if you really are innocent on all this. The court of public opinion is rather unfair at times, especially on the sensitive topic of the abuse of women.
I might understand being mad about Project Phoenix or whatever taking too long... but that false rape accusation stuff is just plain stupid.
The 'Did he, Didn't He' argument aside, Joking about it didn't do you're character any favors.
Yes rape is bad, and people who make those jokes are doing it in bad taste, however that does not make him guilty. Just a person YOU dont like. Just because YOU don't like someone does not make YOU or people like YOU decide what another person does, or all of you "I'm going to Weasyl" types would be gone, every time you would try to get to FA your browser would magically redirect to Weasyl, every time you'd search up anything on FA you would be turned to Weasyl.
I'm sure you'd know nothing of that though, since everyone should just "grow thicker skin" and get over all their problems and all. I'm sure keeping friends while being a complete unsympathetic douchecanoe is really working well for you.
As for your rapist, I am sorry and I hope he goes to hell or experiences hell on earth. I don't condone rape jokes or raping as I've said before. I also don't condone people jumping on peoples necks and ripping chunks out at the sound of the word rape without any factual evidence being provided.
However, don't get personally invested in other peoples drama just because you have had a traumatic experience, its just asinine! There is no facts behind this that anyone can grasp on, all we can come to a conclusion on is that Zaush can be a jerk, he begged for sex, she eventually said yes... regretted after the fact and went to Neer.
These are facts, this is not YOUR business just because you had a horrible experience, and again I am fucking sorry you had to go through that shit but don't expect to verbally disarm me with this, it wont work.
http://benanderson89.tumblr.com/pos.....-over-fa-2-0-3
"I was gonna do so much, but I work 72 hours a week on another job and have no time to code FA", and bragging about it on Tumblr. Good riddance :)
I haven't read of the leaked files, nor do I care about that, so I'm not gonna get into your innocence or not. But from what you say, I can see why someone may interpret it that way.
I need to tell people, "You know what it means if you don't look back on your younger self with at least a bit of wincing or regret? It means that you haven't grown up at all."
I know a couple of people personally who seem like they're stuck in college age. They're not very fun people to be around; irresponsible, pushy, unable to admit to mistakes... it sucks.
I think everyone was a little shit at some point in their life. If you aren't improving, then you are probably still a little shit, because no one's perfect, and thus we should always be striving to better ourselves.
just fix FA and blow that drama up your ass, this goes for mods too
inb4 buttmad b&
Shocking news, people: Some us are in monogamous relationships and use birth control or are fixed, or don't even care. 8D Why? Because condoms ruin the experience for some us, but since we're responsible adults, we're taking necessary precautions to avoid negative consequences.
For others, we may WANT children, and condoms kind of make that part really difficult.
Hes not a rapist. Okay.
Still an asshole with bad judgment and unfit to run a site..
We're all going to hell in a handbasket :D
Do people believe you did what is being claimed you did? probably. Did you do it? only you can say for sure, and anything you say will immediately be heresay anyways.
Does FA need an upgrade? My layman voice says maybe a little. I admit web coding is something I know absolutely nada about, so I am forced to take peoples' word for it. as long as I have been on Fa, it does what I want it to (upload work, watch, note and fav)
If you had truly been accused in a court of law, then I would have issues with you have access to our personal information via FA. since you were not, I can only voice a minor concern and see what happens.
Now, if another year goes by and we see no real updates to FA... THEN I'll have a much louder voice. You are speaking highly of your desire to bring things up to date and your time spent achieving that goal. so I expect progress.
Honestly-- True or False, Zaush should have said this a while ago when 'Neer first decided he would be the lead coder. To clear up all and any doubt people still had in him. Personally I think Zaush should step down and just call it a day, because his reputation is tarnished enough (wither or not it's warranted is up to you), but that's a decisoon only he and 'Neer can make.
And 'Neer shouldn't have just put Zaush on the team and not expect everyone to mutually raise their eyebrow about it; and then to top it off-- start banning people and deleting comments. That's what intensified everyone's anger. FA trying to silence everyone.
At this point-- Both parties involved have said what they've needed to say, it's up to everyone to either believe one side or the other or disregard both. The chick involved really really should have taken this to the police or made a report of it or something back when it was still relevant. It's only relevant now because the issue was never truly solved just more....forgotten?
But for now, I say the whole drama of the admin's deleting comments should be the thing that we be more angered about, also the fact that 'Neer only waited till it blew up in his face to realize it was a problem.
As for wither or not Zaush did anything to this chick, I say we let this sleeping dog lie. Why? Because the chick involved seemed to have just put it behind her a while back. If she doesn't have a problem with it anymore, I don't think we should.
Also-- for the people saying that those who got pissed off at all of this were too slow 'quick to act'-- I think not. I think it was Zaush and the admins that were 'slow to act'. As I said earlier-- I'm sure, this would all be 50% less full of anger if these explanations had been said sooner and it wasn't a little 'surprise' to everyone. That and a lot of people leaving was a 'last straw' for a lot of things having to do with FA.
The chick involved gave her side (tho it was never meant to be seen by the public), Zaush gave his side. It's over. If she still has a problem with what did or didn't occur she would have spoken up by now.
Now it's time for the admins to explain why they didn't do all of this exposition sooner. (apparently they just updated saying they want to dispel rumors in a few hours...?)
As far as the chick making a report, people automatically say 'she was scared' or something, my brain is melting so replace words that feel weak <3
Either way, what she could have done is at least file a restraining order, as far as I know... none was made.
Cheers.
It's a moot point now. She's getting on with her life now apparently and is doing well(from what I've seen?). I'm sure this has given her MORE than enough grounds to raise hell-- should she choose to in the future. I'm also sure that if Zaush decides to be shady(or whatever you wanna call t) once again everyone will be on their toes about it and be quick to call him out on it should he go back to that lifestyle again.
But as it stands. The 'victim' seem doesn't care anymore, so I don't think we should care anymore. As for Zaush, his actions will have to back up his words of wanting to improve the site and changing his ways.
There was a legitimate reason to argue up until now, most things said that are Pro-Zaush or Anti-Zaush now will just be moot points. I think the community should just focus their attentions on wither or not Project Phoenix comes to pass, with or without Zaush's help.
As for the drama z-z Since it is three years old AND there aren't even any explosions, burning orphanages or nuclear bombs involved, it isn't really worth such a shitstorm. I think people are just bored.
but really people are stupidly fast to point fingers in a system of law that puts the burden of proof upon the accuser. So as the wisest of all men once said "You're still here? It's over... go home..."
Hold on to your butts.Zaush indirectly hinted about this over twitter before it was officially mentioned on FA. The first thing that came to mind was that given the reputation he has (rumors or not), that this was a bad idea and something like this drama would ensue. The information is still out there, it still floats about the internet, so it wouldn't take long for people to come to their own conclusions. You have to be somewhat absent minded to not think this might not happen, there really was nobody else? What about those other people in that other project that Neer simply forgot about?
At the end of the day, there really is something horribly wrong with the decision making process here on FA. I can't imagine the coding process is even all that far along considering things so I don't know why this has to be set in stone considering all the damage it is causing. This also happening right after that bout of downtime of FA.
All this suppressing information and deleting messages and suspending accounts etc, and good vs evil. Might have well just not mentioned who was doing the coding and just let it come out after the fact if a new site ever does happen~ It's hard to believe that this is coming if you've been on this site since 2005. Knowing that you've been chosen to take on this task is as others have said, a horrible PR disaster.
~tdawg
oh and bravo, loading this page-o-rage actually made my browser freeze for almost half a minute, that's impressive all on its own. going back to the land of no fucks to give now, i never want to hear about this again. -30-
Don't start no shit won't be no shit. -Lil Jon :3
I mean seriously, jesus h christ. I'm not even remotely in the realm of popularity that zaush is but people have posted art I've commissioned, and called me all kinds of things on sites like lulznet. People claiming "From personal experience" that I'm a sociopathic sex deviant that will fuck anything that moves, and if you fail to "bow before the glory that is ark cock" i will ostracize you from my army of friends and turn you into a pariah.
Fact? I can count on one hand how many people in my 29 years I've had actual sex with. I can count on two hands how many people I've done anything sexual with.
To me I find that shit funny, but I can't imagine what it'd be like to have to live every fucking day in zaush's shoes dealing with these accusations.
That aside, from what little I know about you personally Ark, you seem like a cool dude. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff7E.....EB8C3BA378F582
It's really funny what popularity can do for you. The power of being able to draw dog cocks, now able to help you summon a phalanx of people who know nothing of the situation but somehow feel compelled to say that ZAUSH IS INNOCENT BECAUSE HE GIVES ME BONERS.
That being said, I don't think you raped that girl, not for one second did I ever think that, but that doesn't change the fact (as was previously said) that you're a King Kong shithead. That, however, will also be swept under the rug because dammit if you don't draw very nice looking butts, Mr. Zaush.
I wish the real world worked like FA, all I would have to do if I stole a car and robbed a bank would be to show the judge a picture of my murrypurry fursona that I covered in Photoshop filters and I wouldn't only get off scot-free, I'd get a fucking Medal of Honor.
Oh boo hoo, poor baby is coding the whole site, what a horrible job that must be. I guess that's why you refuse to give the job back to the people who it was given to first.
Oh boo hoo, your drama is so hard to deal with. I guess that's why you made an entire journal about it so everyone could throw their two cents into the communal spittoon.
See, what you are unable to see because you are blinded by your self importance is that the only person who is tearing down the walls around you is yourself, because whenever the tiniest inkling of something about you bubbles to the surface, then here comes Boss Zaush's opinion in lights! Your refusal to step down or even simply to delete this journal is showing everyone with two brain cells to rub together that your unwarranted self-importance is completely out of control. The best thing to do (even though you've heard it thousands of times before and 1001 will not change your mind) is to sink into obscurity and let this glaze over, or perhaps maybe just admit that you've dug your hole too deep and pull out completely. Truly, this is the most effective and mature thing that you could possibly do at this point. You are hanging over the lion's den right now, held up by the last few tatters of your dignity. You're holding the scissors. Do what you will.
First off - he's been repeatedly accused of an illegal act without evidence. All that people have is a set of alleged emails and IM captures. This happened THREE YEARS AGO. It's been quiet for a while and then someone finds out Zaush is working on the FA code and suddenly it's all pitchforks and torches again. A small group of very vocal people are once again making accusations, bringing it all back up again. Where have they been until now? And of course, as usual, we're getting the 'FA sucks and is run by evil people - let's all go to Weasly' - which is the exodus of choice (last time, it was InkBunny as I recall).
Zaush posting his side of the story is kind of taking a huge risk because now people will use his own words against him. And really - you have a very weird inability to differentiate the information: he's the *accused* - his post isn't 'his 2 cents'.. it's his *side*. It's ok if everyone else makes up whatever rubbish they want - but it's wrong for him to present his side. Yep - that's fair.
As for your opinions of how doomed Zaush is - really - I think you're the one who has an overinflated self-opinion. If the actual accusation of rape blew over within a few weeks do you *really* think this will last longer? And clearly, there's a lot of people who either don't believe the accusation - or simply just don't care.
In reality - this is just the usual FA Drama - very likely being fomented by the usual gang of FA haters who saw an opportunity and took it.
Granted I still don't see how any of this effects anyone that is not directly involved in the situation...
<_<
Like, not even talking about whether or not a rape happened -here-, talking about in general. Do you -know- how many rapes aren't reported by the victim? Cause it's a lot. >_> An awful lot. For various reasons.
I do know that anyone supporting her that she told, would push her towards reporting it, and despite it being years later, it would still be put in the court of law before peer review.
I was a rape victim myself, and I say... Do something about it, or shut up about it. It's been years now, and there is therapy available if nothing else, that doesn't cause a war...
Maybe you consider that rape, maybe you don't. Personally, I don't think ti was rape, but it was really scumbag of him if he indeed manipulated her into having sex with him multiple times.
My roommate Drako Tags is a master manipulator, and a creeper that coerces (which I really need to save up badly to get somewhere better), but even he can't get people to see him more than once, and only one was going to come all the way to see him, who I knew and swiftly talked out of.
I met Zaush once years ago at a convention in 2005 I think, and I didn't get any bad vibes off from him, nor could I picture him manipulating someone into anything of the sort, especially when he already had a mate there with him. Granted he could have changed a lot since then, and my conversation with him was only brief.
I've met a lot of creepers and manipulators both in the fandom, and outside of it, and given that she went out of her way multiple times to visit him, never attempted to contact the authorities, and that Zaush had a mate present for all of this (who to my knowledge supports him in the matter, and has stayed with him happily through the years), I would have to say that I couldn't believe that she was even manipulated. Though the opinions of all those who have dealt with them in real life might sway that...
I still don't understand why artists and watchers would leave this site either... How would having Hitler or Paris Hilton doing coding on a free website effect them?
The people who say "I don't care" are probably all ages.
seriously, I don't give a shit.
Doing either of those i believe is against the ToS, drama isnt in and of itself what is going to get someone banned or a journal deleted I'd hope. It isn't a double standard as the goal of this journal is to shed a bit of light [that honestly was already out there if you looked properly.... I mean past the 20+ copy-paste tumblr accounts falsely accusing this guy of being what he is not].
Don't be so jaded [you appear to be] just because [possibly] your journal or your favorite artists journal was removed and I do know some artists that had no spite in their journals and had the same unfortunately. Why? Probably to localize the damage, to go to THIS journal to see first hand information rather than information that someone heard from someone else that someone heard from someone else, ect.
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
More importantly, the OTHER people weren't actually involved in the event in question - so they're spreading at best second hand information and interpretation - while this journal is written by one of the two people involved.. ie: it's direct information.
You can't seriously equate those as being the same thing - not and make any claim to objectivity...
It's definitely not easy for you - and the odds are heavily stacked against you in the 'kangaroo court'.
I've been seeing the 'logic' and there's really no way out for someone accused of rape.
To my mind - this was all resolved years ago. Their bringing it all back up now is just either pathetic - or a group of FA haters who were waiting for some reason to create a drama explosion.
Maybe this time we'll get lucky and they'll actually go to Weasly and leave the rest of us in peace - but that would too easy.
Other than this site, I have nearly zero interaction with the furry community for the preservation of my own sanity. I really have no idea how much drama people were propagating as I paid zero attention to it.
I saw people posting "I'm leaving" journals and never read any of them. Let them leave. It's just a show and I'm not buying it anyway. Select all journals and delete.
As a neutral party looking in I see you (Zaush) opening yourself up in a big way with this post and my first reaction is that this is just entertaining those who play in the mud; a bunch of ignorant people that aren't worth the time or trouble, but who are in the business of causing trouble for others. Some people are so cowardly that they feel the need to extinguish others because of their own low self-worth and insecurities. Life is too short for feeding negatively fueled fires. If the majority of this non-sense drama is happening online, consider yourself lucky.
Ain't nobody got time for that! -- Sweet Brown.
You can always turn off your computer. XD For me I treat online drama as the nothingness that it is. By the end of it, I still have real life to deal with, and 'this drama' isn't helping me pay my bills and the computer goes off.
I see a lot of stuff going on in the comments to this journal, some of which are good examples of people acting on assumptions. Their mistake. I also see people inappropriately applying an emotional investment in this situation for the wrong reasons and that does nothing to help anyone, including themselves. As long as that 'investment' remains in the minds and emotions of those with the specific and deliberate intent for this to continue, the drama isn't going anywhere, just like the people who add to it. It's an absolute waste of time.
This isn't a court of law. I consider judging others to be arrogant and not a laudable personal quality any more than those who engage in personal attacks on others. The ego and immaturity really shows. What a bunch of fools.
You know what amazes me? How quickly people abandon a situation when it's no longer serves their interest. For example, I see pages, and I'm sure Zaush has countless pages more of documentary evidence at his disposal for pressing charges for defamation of character and he would be in his right to do it. Watch how many people stick around if the situation got real, in a real court. Suddenly, yet conveniently, people become unavailable. Dust. It's funny how that works, but it happens. It is, just an example, after all.
Until now, I barely remembered Project Phoenix until I saw your screenshot, Zaush. Dude. It's about time. It sounds like you have some creative ideas and I will be happy to see them work out. Last month I was commenting to my mate how (compared to other sites) FA looks ghetto.
To those causing drama, you’re wasting your lives! If you feel the need to get negatively involved in the lives of others than there’s something missing from yours. Get off the site.
I've came back to this website multiple times today sadly and none of it was for art lol. One thing i cannot stand is lies, and even more so trying to trash someone based off of things that people didn't even grasp the full concept of and came to a improper conclusion off of piecemeal whispers.
You yourself stated there are two sides to every story. I could give two shits whether or not you're a rapist myself (that's your problem, not mine), but in regards to other users on this site, the simple fact is that all of this boils down to- as you said- "he-said-she-said". It makes me wonder if it's useful at all for you to respond to this, because without any evidence outside of possibly biased chatlogs (if you were talking with friends, no one would expect you to actually admit to something), I don't believe people here can make a fully informed decision on who to believe.
Or, of course, people could just not give a damn and leave FA for good reasons... of which I can think of plenty.
No the smart thing to do is use what is inside your skull and quit parroting other people, it isn't a excuse to say "I learned from my past and am working to change myself into a better person." Are you crazy? Caught and in the open? Its been out and in the open for YEARS, the smart thing for YOU to do is to tell your self and your friends that "There was no factual documentation on either side, therefor... I shouldn't go on a witch hunt."
You don't own this website, I don't own this website, you don't get to make choices and neither do I. Live with it, or leave, that is our only option and if you choose to leave off of people raving like lunatics over false unproven information that has been there for YEARS... Then let me help you pack. I'll make your account at Weasyl for you and everything if you want :/
And I already have an account on there and one on several other sites and I wouldn't want you touching anything as far as "making an account for me". Because you believe people don't deserve to have their own opinions or stand up for something.
Look, I am all for opinions. Though when they are propped up by lies and shaky information I am going to kick the legs from underneath the table they are standing on and shove facts in their direction and hope they take a gander. I am a blunt individual, and I make no apologies.
And at this point even if things didn't happen and both sides are false as you said it's a little too late anyways. People are pissed off about the situation either way and it's only going to continue to get worse. When and if Neer speaks up more about the situation it'll probably just get worse again. Because he's already spoken up once in support of Zaush and it's just caused problems from that.
If they did, that would be something to write about.
I could have kept myself to doing my LP's, Gaming in general, Writing, and such but I didn't want to be uninformed about something that obviously was growing too large for its original subject matter due to emotionally confused people spewing the word Rape everywhere. Which in turn people only apparently see that word and the White knights obviously looking to defend a 'Victim' even if that self same person didn't even want their help in the first place decide to go on a head hunting crusade. So it isn't something that I could just ignore and then people say that XYZ artist is a monster and just 'go along with it.' Its... Just not how i work, If I am to judge someone that I don't even know, I need to know what THEY see, and I need to know if their claims are valid and personally, they aren't. None of this is valid and we are not a valid court of law, NONE of this should be our business.
...
Oh wait, not all of them are. FUN!
Surprisingly, it's less and less about Zaush. lol
As far as for 'me thinking it's just about Zaush' Well, I may be wrong I mean having two different view points can create conflicting accounts. Most of the people I've watched [within the first few days, I just started nuking journals that look related to this] All say they are going to Weasly because they "cannot stand being underneath the tyranny of Zaush", or "cannot stand neers decision to put a rapist on board" honestly paraphrasing in some cases but boiled down it all equates to that. All of which is quite ignorant and disappointing, however maybe the people you watch can keep their goals and their problems in mind. For that, I say bravo.
you're basically saying "either allow them to do whatever they want or leave" and which yeah, most of their fan base will leave. i doubt you'd stay on a website too if it did a ton of things you did not appreciate and told you to just "deal with it".
There is far more going on here as to why many people have left but it seems you and a large amount of other people are way too focused on if he actually did rape someone or not while letting all the other major problems going on fly by.
I do realize that there are blank accounts made to view porn and comment here and there, I know what this website is to some people, and I know what it is to others. I am not 'scared' to stand up for myself as I am still talking. I choose my battles though, I am not that invested in this websites development and honestly I LOVE the layout as it is. It is simple and not flashy and I enjoy it.
nice
So far all I'm seeing in the accusation side is what has all the blatant earmarks of a traditional mob-fueled witch hunt.
could I be wrong? Yes, but for the moment, I see no solid evidence of wrongdoing, nor any solid reason for you stepping down from a project that needs to get done.
Hoping you have a better day,
-Nk
"Regarding sexual matters, I’ve grown so much since the days of swinging and casual sex, instead choosing what I consider a more fulfilling life of monogamy, shedding much of the arrogance and self centered behavior of a young man, and growing into a sociable adult."
Monogamy does not make you more "mature". It does not contribute to adulthood. It's just another life path, no better than anyone who chooses to maintain only casual relationships, an open relationship, a poly relationship, or whatever.
There are no "better" relationships, only better people involved in them.
He's chosen what he considers to be more fulfilling, and has shed a lot of his self-centered behavior, and that he's grown since his earlier days.
Hell, I've grown a lot since my earlier days of swinging and casual sex, and I've chosen monogamy as I've matured; it is not the choice itself that mattered, but that I was able to mature enough to realize what I wanted.
I hope you realize this isn't a small piece of code that will be approved and inserted as a module like with your plane's code. There? Yeah, you can tackle it on your own. Here? I highly doubt that a single-man army will... or an army made of men and women at the verge of a mutiny.
I have my own beliefs on relationships like everyone else, but still my comment stands. You, in my opinion did not feel as a forceful person upon her one bit.
But I wish you all the luck hun, seeing everyone leave over these rumors (which obviously are not the full story) is just ridiculous.
in conclusion, not a single fuck will be given from me and please, please keep trying to fix this god awful mess they've been calling a website all these years and as for the rest of you people spreading drama just for the sake of spreading drama: you are a social infection, either stay the fuck away from a computer or just die, I just want my porn sans all this unnecessary shit
Wanting to be recognized by someone who has reached a title they will never reach themselves?
Oh wait... this is the internet... Anonymous "A" wants to type to Anonymous "B" and be praised by their typing.
Then why am I typing?
1300+ comments... the internet tells me that I am feeling left out... that I need MY attention.
This trend shall continue.
As for Zaush doing some kind of harm to FA by poor coding... I suppose if I were so inconvenienced by technical hiccups involving FA, I could just ask for my money back. Of which I have spent nothing for a service I have used almost every day of my life for the better part of a decade.
When it comes down to it, I just feel shocked that there are so few actual adults left in the fandom that we cannot separate our media-programmed knee-jerk reaction to celebre-drama from the more relevant need to make the fandom as a whole less toxic with this relentless shitstorm that has made every damn person on the site in some fashion a victim of shit that "might" have happened, we just don't know.
Seriously though, this was a good read to wake up to with my morning coffee
This community, although unique... is very sensitive over something that doesn't involve them. Not just that, if this was any deeper of a case, personal matters should of remained personal and off the web. More locally then anything else. But when people bring it to others attention, its a screamer.
My brother was a victim in a case like this. He was dating a woman and then when he wanted to break up with her, she said he raped her. They dated for four years and he lost the case. This was in the 90's so maybe law was a bit different.
We don't know what really happened zaush's case. We don't know if what he said or she said is true. But that's the best part about stories. People will take a side and go with it and defend it will all force.
Me? Well, my escape, and my outlet for creativity and perverted thoughts is cluttered with people screaming left and right over something that can't just be fixed in its own way. A project to make the website better turned into a high school classroom.
I'm disappointed. But its my word against thousands, upon thousands of others. So that's where I stand. I can say what I want or will, but there isn't much else to it.
I like the design, I would love to see change to the site.
But power comes as power goes. Now it might take longer than expect. *sigh*
Best of luck.
I just hope this whole mess blows over so we artist can just get back to work instead of being thrown all these drama journals :-O
No one has 100% matter-of-fact proof for anything in this scenario at all, in either direction. But we can't just drop everything, no. We can't. :/
So sad to see this site die, but it's done.
Did you notice that the sites visitors hasn't gone under 9k in the past couple days? Any publicity is GOOD publicity. To think this site is "dead" is outright ridiculous.
People passed judgement without hearing both sides.
So just let it go.
Anti-Zaush Crowd:
"This was none of my business and there were not enough facts to begin with to allow me to make a informed decision."
Pro-Zaush Crowd:
"This was none of my business and there were not enough facts to begin with to allow me to make a informed decision."
But neither side will, there will always [even in years to come] be someone that says "I know what you did [last summer]!" and the shit storm will resume.
-The person who accused rape without going to authorities first
-The person who leaked personal data
In my country it is a huge crime to go against someone's individuality. They would be both sued, and jailed for a few years. That being said - if they were wrong about the accusations.
IDC I like FA, i'm staying.
I'm glad you're not an admin.
I still think you're not going to get anywhere with project phoenix.
For the good of FA; prove me wrong.
Besides, the three year old rumour hardly bothers me at all.
So I hope Project Phoenix is changing something, If not...I probably won't stay v_v I really like the site, but it's just to insecure and buggy.
But i have high hopes :) I like the new Mock-Up and since you are an artist yourself you will make sure it's useable with nice features for us "content providers" XD Good luck! It must be a shit-load of work X__X
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Could someone please tell me
how the fuck do all you people have so much time converse about this MEANINGLESS BULLSHIT.
No, but in all seriousness, this shits redonk, people need to get their fingers out of other peoples pies.
Not to mention FA is nothing more than a giant episode of Jerry Springer these days. Its nauseating.
Wish you luck fellow creator.
And to quote someone.
Cupcake143
Nice to see your side.
Still don't care. I've said it once and ill keep saying it. This place is just an art gallery. People need to keep their panties out of a knot. Just chill out.
Staying on FA till there isn't an FA.
1. This "fandom" is no more welcoming, forgiving, or understanding than the twisted society that it so badly wants to separate from.
2. Everyone that disagrees or "hates" on others have no clear understanding about what they are at conflict with.
3. Zaush shouldn't have to explain himself to anyone if he feels that he has done nothing wrong.
4. "Stepping down" will not benefit FA in the least, because if Zaush doesn't revamp this ancient site, no one will. Every other coder or developer this site has had have been absolutely worthless and lazy.
5. People will think what they want. The truth will be painfully twisted to form a lie that will qualm the masses and harm only one.
If the retarded politics of humanity will follow me here to FA, then I'm going to make myself blind and deaf. I don't want to see or hear anymore bullshit.
LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!!!!
Now... everyone here is just so human it hurts.
So from a standpoint where I have nothing to gain from blaming anyone or pointing fingers at anyone I will point out what I gathered from BOTH sides of the argument.
From the offense side
The nameless victim has been "raped" along with many others. An administrator is silencing them. Zaush is the one doing the raping. Zaush has also been banning or deleting anything negative said to him. He also has the power to look into everyone's personal information and can do what he pleases with it. What he did/is doing is wrong and if you stay on this site you are only saying that this is all ok. Zaush must leave immediately for he has only made things worse in FA. The proof: Several notes and several deleted comments from people against FA.
From the defensive side
There is only really one victim, and so called victim isn't as much as a victim as merely someone Zaush slept with. What he did was NOT pressure her so much as he only jeered her into it. Then, after they both dropped any plans of sleeping together, she broke up with her ex. He did not see this as an opportunity from the start, this had happened after he had asked her. Zaush has no authority to ban anyone and had not done such things. Zaush has not done anything at all to the site and has not even done any official coding. He has only merely planned for some changes to FA. The proof: Several notes and saved documents from the actual person. Note:not from any random hacker or friend you heard this from.
My stance from a position where this has not affected me at all nor do I believe it will affect me.
My Neutral stance
Said administrator dealt with the issue poorly and these banned people are victim in this too. Pressuring into sex IS rape.
Zaush is NOT said admin however, he does NOT have power to do such things anyways. He never pressured her so much as he woo-ed her, therefore, not rape. Honestly how else do people get into one night stands so often.
Due to having heard that there were multiple people victims in this and now it was only really one the information given to those who are on the offensive is not really trustworthy. One of the main arguments was that Zaush could have altered the words said in the files however he pleased, the person handing out the information could just as easily do the same if that is your standpoint. Therefore, if you say that Zaush is unreliable, a first-hand witness in all this, then you are really saying that a third party source should be far less reliable.
Zaush should NOT step down from FA for he never even did anything to begin with. Step down from what? What did he do to change the site? If you think this is the worst state the site has ever been in, you are wrong. As someone who has gained nor suffered from anything site related I can say that the site has not been made worse at all, in fact, there has been no real change. I have seen nothing different. As for a business standpoint, artists never had to take notice of the matter if they were so focused on getting income from art in the first place. They did not need to get involved, again, I can see why they did. Until the site is actually affected by this, THE SITE and not the people on it, then this argument on the site being in its worst condition is invalid.
No rape occurred "to my knowledge" since the said "victim" not only did this multiple times, but later dismissed it too. Zaush did nothing to the site so why should he really leave? There wont be any real gain, it would only fuel everyone's reasons to believe that he was/is a rapist.
To close off, I would honestly be on the offense side had the victim straight up come forward to the police and said it was rape, I do understand the reason why she didn't though. TRUST ME WHEN I SAY I KNOW WHY SHE DIDN'T. On the other side of the coin though, I would be on the defensive side if people were not banned for speaking out, this is too much evidence that something is being covered up to dismiss. As a neutral party though, I see no reason to be against Zaush specifically. I am NOT however dismissing "rape culture" as not real for I know for a fact that rapists/sex offenders can get away with things. I have nothing against Zaush until further reliable proof against him is shown, far too much counter-arguments to the evidence given.
apathy replaces reason -3-
It is between said parties either it be 2 or more I don't care but every one should look at both sides and even then look at evidence.
But I still say every one butt out it is not my duty to pass judgement just be there for both until something is found out be the real law.
The only thing that really irks me is how one still can think that sex without protection with a stranger is safe in present times. My mate and I have an open relationship as well but if anyone would try to fool around with us without protection they'd get dropped that second.
Open relationships without protection should not exist at all. For your own good and for the people you play around with.
Seriously, people need to let this all die down. I am tired of hearing NOTHING but this from friends, tired of pointing facts in their face when they love to assume among everything even after facts prove otherwise that being a Jerk = being a rapist.
This is the sort of stuff that will not go away as quickly as you think for many. This isn't something like "OMG THERE IS TOO MUCH MLP PORN HERE I AM SO LEAVING", its heavy stuff. This is not a big joke, its quite disturbing actually.
But whether you did, or didn't do this, i don't think you should be involved in the site because the accusations are there for one, bringing more drama to likely happen in the future and two, i still think what you did (from your account) was a little..inappropriate... in a sense.
I hope you take this into account, that these things in the past are a part of your life, always will be and only you/the people involved will know the truth. You have to live with the decisions you make, though you claim you've changed for the better, only you can decide to do the right things from now on.
Though it makes me uncomfortable to have you on staff, i believe there is possibility for change and betterment in people. There's always some kind of good in someone, even if it's only toward themselves and no one else. I hope things settle out, and hope this experience doesn't take you off the path you've chosen for your offline life.
So I'm glad his side is out here as a good counter weight until we have tangible proof [which I doubt we will ever get]
It's good that he presented his side, though people will believe what they want. She's probably still out there rolling in the drama too. Who knows. All I know is that some women can turn a straight man gay. Know what I mean?
Is this over yet?
There's literally nothing that can result of all this debate other than carpal tunnel. Can we just move on and have our furry porn website made pretty already?
Actual rape, with a actual person getting violated is what i think he takes seriously. I do, and I think people that commit such acts need to get placed in their own personal hell.
Theoretical/joking (about) rape, talking about something like this is insensitive and I believe this is where you find issue. Not everyone is a Morally refined person and not everyone is going to give two cents about you or your friend and how you feel about it, maybe if you had the issue at hand [rape] happen to you or your friend you can ask them to take their jokes elsewhere but keep in mind other than being a jerk and talking about Theoretical rape or joking about Rape it is all freedom of speech and that is supported by the constitution as long as he does not swing or make himself a tangible threat to you or someone.
I have not to much idea what is going on but I know one thing.
If it have been any happenings that is agenst the law it shuld not be flamed/spamed/talked bout on a forum
it shuld be taken up with lawers and judges and mill throw the Legal system.
Also personal attacks/happening is what it says, personal not something to toss around.
I cant say who is right or who is wrong myself but it seem to hurt a lot of people on both sides.
So i here hope this will be solved so people can move on and feel better soon.
Tank you.
ps: Now i want to go back see nice art and funny things!... also i cant type >.<
I'll end by saying this: unless something is irrevocably proven, I believe that people deserve second chances. And if you're on the team to revamp FA, then I trust that you'll do your best on the job at hand. Time will tell what happens.
Look, quit being blind he already stated what I just said YEARS ago. I'm not going to change your opinion obviously because you only want to hate him and live on in your fantasy that you are right.
Coincidentally, I'm here after reading through Tobias's journal entry; I typically keep my head out of this sort of drama but I thought I'd leave my two cents nevertheless.
That said, I'm well aware of how such rumors - slander or otherwise - can affect otherwise unrelated issues.
However, my perspective on this issue is that if there were rape events and/or other sexual abuse-related events, it'd be in the prosecution's best interest to bring them up sooner rather than later. To bring it up on an internet forum rather than file a lawsuit amounts to little more than defamation of character if the appropriate evidence isn't provided - and the internet is hardly a base for fair trials to be conducted, much less any kind of judicial hearing.
I believe there's an old saying, 'Don't beat a dead horse' that applies in the recent circumstances.
Frankly, if something as serious as a sexual offense charge originating between two legal adults hasn't been resolved in the span of that many years there's likely a good reason for it, and I'd like to believe people can wrap their head around that possibility.
Since I can neither prove nor disprove those claims, I'd like to reiterate that this is personal perspective only. I neither endorse nor condole sexual offense of any kind, nor rumor mongering to the point of disruption. By the time you reach adulthood, I'd like to imagine most can overcome embarassment or shame they may have about an event and take charge of the situation appropriately.
Nevertheless, I also agree with Afevis's comment - that this debate will result in nothing more than carpal tunnel, to paraphrase.
There's a separation of real life and internet propaganda that should probably not be lacking here.
On a lighter note - That mockup website you linked looks very, very sleek. I for one quite like it.
really? there's a site called "yiffyleaks"?
Also, what was that about something replacing FA? Did I miss an announcement there? O.O
Finally, ugh.... I really hate mob mentallity. Nothing good ever comes out of that way of thinking. Humans... worst species ever
As for project Phoenix, And from one developer to another, I hope that it comes to fruition and gets completed. It will be good for FA and the community at large to refresh this beast of a site. However, FA's historyof reworks, redesigns etc have been quick to be promised but have never come to completion. It makes dispair that its has gotten this far without much of a refresh. If you can bring some new life into this old beast it will be good, though I feel its the last gasps of a sinking ship, with other alternatives out there.
This is only my opinion, I may be wrong, i may be talking out my ass, but that's what I think.
F
(PS this was a pain to type out on my phone due to the size of the page filling my phone's memory)
You draw porn. You could fuck anyone you wanted in the fandom, and you want me to believe you just happened to pick the one person who wasn't worshipping you?
Yeah...
Personally I think this whole situation is blown out of proportion and people hang on buzz words too much and get blinded and cannot see facts. There was no rape, just sour feelings afterwards [on her side].
And that isn't the only point either. Many people were aware of all of this well before it was announced on FA, years ago. Of all people in the universe that could have been chosen to do this job, the person with all this known history was chosen of total disregard of the dramasplosion that would 100% result from this.
Kind of concerned about furaffinity's future when people don't take things like this into consideration during the decision making process. Not once during the entire process, not one person on the admin side of things brought up that this might be a bad idea?
As far as just hearing Zaush's side, you can easily EASILY find her side too. Just search for the leaked notes, it really isn't hard. I'm actually surprised you are here without seeing her side first.
Yes but that is her side from back then. All this drama could be cleared up by her saying something about this now. We only have stuff from back then to go on. She could end up saying something that could make or break this quite honestly.
At this point I don't think just doing nothing is going to make the whole thing go away.
If you don't care, that's one thing. But at least get the facts straight. Don't spread misinformation.
Everybody should stop talking about this.
now, before I get attacked for whatever reason. Hear me out
I knew a girl that was 'raped' or 'coerced into sex' or however you want to describe it. She told NO ONE except for the 3 people she trusted most and made sure they vowed never to tell a soul. (before anyone attacks me for this, I am a totally anonymous person on the internet, I could be one of millions of people nobody will EVER find out her secret from this unless you decide to stalk me, then that's a whole new problem, but I digress) So, She only told who she wanted to know and she chose that for her own reasons, I respected her wish and did not go to the police or tell her parents because I put myself in her shoes (as best I could) and thought "how would I feel if suddenly people knew that I didn't want knowing?" It was pretty terrible, in fact I was so worried about possibly accidentally telling people I started to have panic attacks (Yes, I have an anxiety problem and it is medicated and I see a psychologist)
So, Think about this. Would you want THOUSANDS of people knowing about you emotionally scarring and traumatic experience?
Short answer: No
So, pleaaaase let this drama go. And before people come in with the "But I'm helping by showing support, discussing this issue and trying to get justice". You're not, you're perpetuating a situation that should be private and 100% confidential to everyone except those deemed appropriate to know about it.
Please, drop this drama and if you feel the need to do something, do it in a place more suited. Start an anti-rape rally, make buttons against rape and sell them but DO NOT invole yourselves in other people business, it is not only rude but can cause more emotional damage.
Thank you, Inuko-kun
If you saw two people having a discussion in public and you over heard them would you walk up to them, stand next to one of them and declare loudly that the other one is guilty/wrong? No, you wouldn't. People choose how they handle a situation because they're intelligent people and can make their own decision and don't need people like you shouting from the rooftops that they've made the wrong decision. Look, I know you just want to spread awareness that Zaush may (key word, MAY) be guilty but that doesn't mean you go and make a huge drama about it with mass exoduses, petitions and rants... You just simply let people know and then get on with your life.
Stuff like this, just for a second in your wonderland imagine Zaush as innocent, and still he is getting all of this. Stuff like this, can drive people to thinking of Suicide. Stuff like this, can drive people crazy. Stuff like this, can destroy your lively hood.
Even people who have commissioned art from him are getting a backlash, do you not think that this stupid head hunt of yours and people like you has not gone far enough?
I admire your resolve to go out of your way to help someone you think went through traumatic experience, however this person has done nothing, nada... zip, Zilch! Whatever you want to say, this person ONLY went to Neer as far as we know. Furthermore, this person was most likely NOT assaulted, was NOT looking for help, was NOT warning others for their safety because if she was... she would have made the notes public of her own accord.
Thinking with logic isn't being dismissive and if someone has had this happen to them, GO TO the local authority's and if that does not work, go farther. If you cannot get help from legal means, you have two hands, you hopefully have money or can get some, put the shit together and be creative and get your measure of closure by your own hands.
I don't really care. Like, at all.
Damn drama hounds..
This journal is a equivalent to the hacked notes out there and is far more clear and concise than the hacked notes in my opinion so that validates things. As a added bonus I've seen what false accusations like this can do to someones life and so that may be a good leading reason why I am defending a position I see as logical and true because everywhere else I see greasy white knight keyboard warriors crying about how rape is bad and its bad to rape. Good for them, and while that is true... what does this have to do with Zaush? Absolutely nothing outside of unfounded and undefended [my the victim] accusations. Initially I didn't care enough to give my two cents because artists and other no-name people were happily staying here, but then they suddenly started crying "XYZ is a rapist, I'm going to ZYX website and Screw FA!" paraphrasing but still. So that is why I am here.
Use your brain, empathize with people and you will learn a lot more than bashing the buttons on your keyboard to get out some thoughts driven wholesale by opinion.
If it was not for a massive amount of people packing up and moving over to Weasyl, I honestly do not think we would see the FA staff taking this seriously. We have not in the past, and I seriously do not think we will in the future. How this, and other cases has been handled by FA staff sets a pattern. This is why people are leaving. Not because "oh, he is a rapist!", but because this should be dealt with much better, much sooner.
There is no drama in leaving, there is no drama in staying, there is drama in throwing sit either direction. My 2 cents.
That would be like you getting accused (not proven, but just accused) of shoplifting... there's no video, you were not caught with any merchandise, and no witness actually saw you take anything... the store owner just FELT like some stuff was missing. Here's the kicker though. The store owner never had you arrested or even filed a report, but some guy on the street heard the store owner tell someone else that they felt like you might have taken something. And that guy on the street went and told EVERYONE ON THE PLANET that you were a thief.
And now no company in the world will hire you because everyone just knows you "might" be a thief.
Do we as a society honestly accept THIS as justice?
This is the reason for my stance on this. I can't prove that Zaush did what he's accused of, so it would be absolutely wrong of me to go around and continue to parrot that he did it. I am not attacking or belittling or dishonoring the victim in it, I just intend to have no part in making additional victims by way of the internet bullying that serves only to be a divisive element within our fandom that we all should have outgrown long ago.
How staff handles stuff can be reason enough for someone to leave. But, again, I am not judging people that chose to stay.
Based on the journal, Zaush made some bad choices, and I do not agree with his views of never playing without a condom, but what the hell does that have to do with the rest of us? What does it have to do with FA staff? No, I don't buy this business of the angry mob having the right to pass judgement against FA OR Zaush.
The only damage being done to the site right now is by the acidic vitriol spewed by the people who want to perpetuate this mess en perpetuity. Either take it to court and let him be found guilty in accordance with the law, or else people should drop the senseless e-bullying and mind their own damn business. This is worse than Jr. High School.
As I stated, everyone has the right to feel what they may expect from FA staff. We are not a jury sending him to jail, we are users who can choose if we feel comfortable using a site or not. I do not know about you, but when I read a lot of comment, I see a lot of angry mob lashing out at the people who want to take their art elsewhere. Are you ok with that?
Just know you are joining a website that is a safe haven for people who judge at a moments notice and don't read both sides because the read what they think is the 'good' ['OBVIOUSLY' The victim] side and the 'evil' ['OBVIOUSLY' zaush] side isn't worth listening to because it will corrupt their widdle brains.
That and I had a look at the so called safe haven, it sucks, it is unintuitive and full of fluff.
Honestly you do not know how many people who are MUCH worse have been on here and there, but feel free to delude yourself.
There is no reason people should still be throwing tomatoes at you, or even at all in the first place. It's situations like this that have arisen in the past that make me want to investigate more before pointing fingers and throwing things at people. Often times it leads to the accuser looking like a jackass. So with that said give it time! The tides will turn...though, as I told a friend, it's drama to this scale that makes me feel so bad that I wish I could like..send the victim like...a gift card to Cracker Barrel or something. Because everyone likes food, right? :3
1. It was years ago.
2. No one pressed charges.
3. The alleged rape victim isn't the one bringing this up.
4. The one who brought it up is a butthurt furry who wanted the position Zaush got.
5. If you want to leave FA....effing leave. Its a free site run by dedicated individuals. You don't pay to be here. You have no ownership of this site. GET THE F OUT DRAMA LLAMAS and let someone who wants to help and improve the site do so without all of your bullshit.
6. Do something better with your life than languish over furry drama.
7. Tideer out.
The individuals who do, do so for free. This is a for pay service. If you don't like it then leave. Otherwise shut it and stop acting like a spoil entitled child throwing a temper tantrum.
While I still can't find it logical to believe either side of this fustercluck anymore, you, good sir, have done substantially better for yourself by taking the time to write out the situation for yourself so people can be educated about who they're attempting to crucify as a person, and how this ridiculous situation has actually affected you.
On a purely emotional level, I would apologize if you were really the target of misinformation and propaganda. That kind of uproar should only be for politicians.
In any case, if you've decided to stick with the efforts of improving the site to the very end, then you have my support. Damn all who put inane squabbling above all of that. Emotions have no place in the world of programming. You can't program emotions, you can't program WITH emotions.
Because all the drama aside. What you are doing for this site, giving it a fresh look and code, is a very good one and I really hope it will work out. I am a developer myself and have to admit that is horrible to do any work with FA on a code basis.
There is no API at all, output is often very inconsistent in behaviour and there are many restrictions that don't have to be there. Fresh code is the only solution you have to solve those problems and give the opportunity to spread this site and community to the fast growing mobile market.
So, I wish you luck with your project and hope to see a better working FA very soon.
but thats my best guess
Thanks Obama.
Looking at the comment section and the "furry drama" surrounding the situation: Why must humans be so disappointing :E
I know, I know, it's only a TV show, but I remain haunted, by an episode of CSI: NY, where a high school coach was brutally murdered, by one of the parents, because he was suspected of being a child-molester.
Too late, everyone found out that the "proof" was merely a prank, pulled on the coach, by members of his own team. The parent was later arrested and charged with murder, but that's not the point. Have we actually slid so far down the slope, as a society, that it's okay to complete destroy someone's life, simply because he might be guilty?
People getting up and moving- that act is very unnecessary.
I wonder if they would do such a thing...
Just because this is a website, it doesn't make the topic of rape any less serious, it's only natural for people who care about the fandom, or the topic in general, to react and debate. If anything it's incredibly healthy to have a community defend what they believe in, albeit divided, but still. If you want to have a no-shits attitude towards the people who left, OR the people who decided to stay, then try to keep it to yourself if you can, and respect that people are doing what they are doing because they care. No one should be ridiculed for that.
Everyone should just be gloriously good to one another.
The first issue I had with the rape accusations was the fact that people were judging you based on one persons' suggestion that turned into a wildfire. The next issue I had was the fact that if you truly were guilty, then why was there ABSOLUTELY NOTHING being done with the authorities, last I checked nobody on FA has the jurisdiction of anything that happens in real life. And lastly, there was the fact they were judging your abilities solely because of your supposed deviance, not to sound like I advocate such crimes, but just because you're (not you) a deviant does not mean you lack skills or job competency.
That being said, I am truly glad you have spoken up and cleared the fog. Drama is always present on the net, but just because drama exists does not mean there should be a lack of logic. Lengthen your attention span and look at the facts instead of believing one persons' ill conceived notion of how something happened.
Okay.. 1 if raped.. go to the cops.. don't go to a site and try to report it to an admin on a site said person is popular on.. it REALLY makes you look like you just what attention or free art or be quiet.
If it was rape, first stop police. Didn't go? well you lack common sense don't ya? :D
Okay I accept it's hard to admit, but THIS is why rapist get AWAY with it! THIS is why laws are changing, the real victims are silent and the fakers are shouting, this is why it's HARDER to catch the REAL rapists. Alas I'm getting off topic :O
Okay FA drama about all this? Make response?
He isn't in a seat of power, he has no control over the current site. If he and his team make a new faster more stable site. Kudos!
If they don't then we torch them, not before, but after.. No use knocking em down without letting them try to fix the site. <-- cost effective.
IE we wait, maybe get new site, then flame if you feel the need.
If we don't, site stays broken, and nothing changes, except next time pictures might poof forever next time.
In the end! Zaush is still here regardless, so let's get a free site upgrade at least. Or we don't you zaush torching people get the addition torches of people angry about not getting the new site. :D
Kindly don't think I have no clue as to what psychological scarring does. At any rate, I do accept most furs have the social skills of a llama, at least 60-70% of them to be generous.
And he already said he's not that great at coding, but he is studying, and his project lead is more of a 'go this way' type of position, he'll probably just be drawing a few things for his input in the worst case. Or the project will flop and the fur torchers will converge.
As for the hacks that started this, he was one of the people most effected by it, so doesn't that mean he has the most drive to see this through?
I think you're pulling that attempted murder story out of your ass because of this logic of yours.
So yeah...this is nothing more than a "burned fur" who is stiring the pot because he is butthurt.
Keep trying though.
Anything older than a few months is moot. Get a life, move on, and stop making your self miserable and frustrated about things that won't, and can't be changed. And if someone admits to being an ass, accept it and be gracious.
Rape is Sex using force or its threat. Coercion isn't rape. Nagging isn't rape. Consent, no matter how reluctantly given, is still consent.
I think FA should allow the posting of an award on people's profile. When someone starts to be a Drama Queen, everyone could post the award if they wanted to. That way, people would be forewarned who are the pain in the asses.
And yes, FA could use a good redesign. But again, as long as drama is important to people, it will never go the way it should.
Just my two bits worth. ^_^
But to pick apart your argument, here's part of CA's penal code on rape:
"Where it is accomplished against a person's will by means of force, violence, duress, menace, or fear of immediate and unlawful bodily injury on the person or another."
Duress is defined as: "In jurisprudence, duress or coercion refers to a situation whereby a person performs an act as a result of violence, threat or other pressure against the person"
"Other pressure" is "nagging".
End of story.
Yeah, blame the victim. You wonder why people don't go to the police over rape? Questions like this.
And sorry, I believe Zaush as much as i believe the Son of Sam telling us that his dog told him to do it. He never admitted to nagging. WHAT HE SAYS MUST BE TRUE AMIRITE?
So, I never said it was fine, I said just the opposite. Your comments are not Jermain to the subject at hand, and show a lack of thought. We're not talking about a *Proven* incident, but a rumor.
I can't begin to explain how much is wrong with what you just said.
You sweetums need to go educate yourself on what constitutes consent and what constitutes rape asap.
(Hint: Coercing consent out of someone is still rape.)
I didn't say "talking someone into it is rape".
I didn't said "Zaush did THIS or THAT"
I said COERCION IS RAPE, which is also what you have just said.
Coercion is ALWAYS rape, because by definition, coercion is persuading (an unwilling person) to do something by using force or threats.
The concept of a form of coercion that implies proper consent does not exist.
Coercion
coercion
[koh-ur-shuhn]
noun
1.
the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance.
2.
force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force.
Firstly! In this case, was Coercion used? Intimidation? No. Force? No! She went to him WILLINGLY she wasn't dragged there physically or through some form of blackmail or even promises of some type of physical abuse in the future if she didn't bow before the all mighty!
Seems like you just want to see a monster where there isn't one and at worst the best you can say is that he is a Jerk. Which is NOT a crime.
PLEASE read the conversation, instead of picking up comments isolated from context.
Still like them better than dA's tho <:D
No means no. And why this is even a debate is beyond me.
I had no idea you'd done stuff with airlines, that's pretty amazing; I assume it's to do with the entertainment system?
The thing that annoys me are the 5 shit stirring extroverts that keep making out that you're a rapist destroying fa and everyone's against you. I think this is going to help fa more than ever!
The website does need an overhaul; other websites look and feel so much nicer than this one.
And if these people that say they're leaving, because of the 'claims', actually do leave it might make the website better, because they're the kinds of people you don't want to be associated/mingle with.
Well, wishful thinking...
The Drama on FA and the problems it's been having, ESPECIALLY with the poor performing admins as well as (mainly) the site owner not doing their job right and handling the situation in a very poorly manner via blocking journals or people giving their opinions (cause everyone has a right to speak their mind), and banning people.. It's gone for far too long. Hell, honestly, I would rather see a much more matured and better lead administrator than the one we have here, with new admins that ACTUALLY do their job right and not have dark secrets, like actually fucking animals or even being accused of rape.
Rape is a serious crime, as we all know, and you said you were the kind of person who likes to fool around back then.. Well, answer me this, how do you see this now? Are you taking everything that's going on very seriously?
As for the overhaul that this site desperately needs, I really hope it goes well, cause everything here is just broken.
One last thing, if someone accused you of rape, you should've seriously notify the authorites and not the (put it bluntly) crappy and shitty FA admins, especially the "Uber Admins" Hell, they probably would do a much better job than him. For him trying to protect you and say that you didn't do it and that no one can question of state their own opinion about what happened just cause you're his friend, then having the nerve to block and ban people just for talking about it, he's steeped very low. It's very pathetic, immature, and just a shame. At least you're handling this much better than he would.. I just hope this ends quickly, cause this is stupid: the drama here, they way the lead admin is handling it along with the administrators, everything. This happened personally in your life; it's a shame of having to bring up something that happened to you personally in your life.
If it was indeed consensual, then I'm sure people would want to see further proof, but if you're indeed a rapist like the others are saying, then you're gonna get what's coming to you. I can't say nor believe anything until I get real proof, but your explanation seems legit, then again, I'm neutral here.. I just hope this ends well and not on a sour note..
'
This was a calm, collected description of events, there was little justification made throughout (there was nothing that needed justifying), and at the end he didn't try to brush off the mental state of the victim as insane/crazy, or even the discussion itself.
It is very likely he his telling the truth.
If he were to talk down to the individual or their mental state, that would have proven something was off about his thought process, but the story treats them as an individual with social issues, not mental issues, and so is likely to be true.
If in any discussion one party questions the ability or mental state of their partner, or uses the volume of their voice to cut in on their opponents argument, you know there's something wrong with their own argument/mental state that needs rectifying.
One example would be going to the first day of college, making friends, and as the bell rings one of your new friends goes up to the desk and starts gathering assignments to hand out, because they are actually your teacher. What is that teacher now aware of that other teachers aren't privy to?
In response to the second statement, is there any record of these statements? It's important because the context of who he was talking to matters. Was he joking with friends? Attempting to save face in a crowd? The exact wording of what others said is just as important as the response. Plus, evidence is better than hearsay.
And, people don't tend to change easily. Even attempting to trick others doesn't always work if you let them talk long enough. And if you trust a person who talks a lot, then it's likely they're trustworthy.
If he were to revert then he would deserve whatever ire comes his way (for joking about this subject), but for the moment the past is past (if there were any real crime that occurred the individual affected would have gone to the authorities. If the authorities didn't believe them, then the collective anger is currently being misdirected).
However, honestly through seeing everyone that actually knows this guy. I cannot say for certain that he was a Angel, but he is definitely no Devil, no monster like some people wish to paint him as :/
I allow for the fact, but it still does not mean that Zaush is the social equivalent of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde just because precedent exists because almost no two cases are the same.
I personally don't believe it. I don't believe it, because aside from the fact that I knew him during that point (which YES, knowing someone's character IS a good reason to believe them, and has proven people innocent who truly were in history), if this were really truly a case of rape, and Zaush is some sadistic monster, it would of been a matter dealt with by the police at the time of the crime, NOT the owner of FA. Further more, rape wasn't even the word used by the supposed victim. She indicated that essentially he had begged her and guilted her for sex at worst. If that was the case, I could understand her disliking him and feeling uncomfortable, but that's NOT rape. The choice was entirely hers. No one held a gun to her head and told her to fuck him or die, and calling that rape is quite frankly extremely disrespectful to people who really have been raped.
Until someone manifests an actual police report, I call bullshit.
Can all you drama-whores live with the blood of two innocent people on your hands, because you felt like taking sides in something?
If it's been years of drama, and nothing has been figured out yet, then taking sides is probably the worst thing to do...Maybe you are just filled with that much hate, and want to watch people burn though, while looking like a good person through it all...
See, it wouldn't have been "years of drama" had he actually, y'know, stepped up and addressed it like this back when the notes were originally leaked.
"
We are all human and we all make stupid mistakes, honestly you are right. This whole issue would have had less of a impact at least had people known at least this much... much longer ago, but I am glad that people have the full story that they crave so much.
And if all of this is effecting her so much, then people taking either side (hers, or Zaush's) in the matter ,is hurting her, and letting her be comforted by friends and family in real life, and everyone else dropping it would be the best. It's not like anyone on either side that doesn't know them in real life actually cares about either, and is just being dramatic for the sake of being dramatic... *acts dramatic* Because when it comes down to it, taking either side hurts both sides, and people not directly involved are only like a harassing group of camera men outside a celebrities window.
I'm on FA for the art and porn.
*takes it back* Sorry, I'm a cheap bastard like that.
I hope everything between everyone gets sorted out. Drama sucks, but admittedly entertaining.
I've been in this fandom for nearly 20 years now and this isn't even remotely as big as people are making it out to be, so hang in there dude.
This whole thing is playing out like a story in sensationalist American news media based solely on speculation and hearsay. Once the next scandalous story pops up, the drama whores and side pickers will forget all about whatever this B.S. is.
Someone needs to make T-shirts that say "I survived the furry drama of 2013-2014." Or better yet, "I survived the frurry drama of Tuesday."
People are accusing him now just to be Drama queens.
It took a lot of digging before I finally got a handle on what the ruckus was about. Frankly though, I am one of the people who really doesn't care. I don't subscribe to that mob mentality just because people say I should. I draw my own conclusions based on my own experiences. And unless something happened to me specifically, I just don't get involved. My mention of my expansion into Weasyl was mere coincidence, so my frustration at the journals from people saying they were leaving for Weasyl was growing.
Anyway, I don't know who did what, nor is it my concern. If you can indeed improve FurAffinity for the better, I do hope you can bring about such a much needed change. And while you're at it, can you please please PLEASE implement a comment nesting option for the individual user to be able to switch between newest or older comment first at the top of said comments. Or even better, make it so newer comments appear at the top instead of the bottom. It gets so annoying having to scroll all the way down to the bottom to read the newest comments. That's my two cents anyway. Other than that, I feel for ya over the accusations. I'd say you handled it quite well considering.
Let it go guys don't drag this on.
Why?
Because I am not educated enough to talk about rape and any related subjects like I am an expert. I am not going to embarrass myself and get myself involved in any debates/arguments/tantrums while acting like I know what's best for everyone, for Zaush, whatever. But what I can say is that some people need to get over themselves and their holier than thou attitude. They are not lambasting and tearing apart the different stories, art, what have you that float around this website that revolve around the subject of rape, since they appear to be so picky about it. Yes, this is different because this matter has real-world implications, but that doesn't take away that shenanigans picture (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/12550642 ) has been bombarded by comments about how "rape jokes are not funny" and so forth.
Then why are you not being so passionate about the other content involving rape jokes in any shape or form, on FA and outside of it? Why is it NOW, in the middle of a "scandal", that people are suddenly inspired to look decent and noble and taking down the evil, even though that's far from what they usually are on the website? I am not going to say that these same people are horrible human beings for deciding to care about one specific case over another. That would be ignorant. And I already know the answer to my question. It's simply that the people who seem to be so adamant about their feelings on this entire headache are deciding to care only now, when a name like Zaush is involved, because they either want to be noticed or they just needed something to suddenly be angry and venomous and let out their emotions. The problem is, some of them try to look like the deciding answer, even with no concrete evidence of anything. And that just inspires more hate, more drama, more unnecessary bullshit instead of trying to discover the truth. Sure, it is difficult to do so, but it would be a much better use of energy than looking like a group of complete assholes who don't know what they're really talking about.
People judging even when they weren't there or judging by what they read on leaked notes is truly disgusting.
The same shit happened to a friend at a con, accused of rape by a girl even if the guy was gay >-< and he got banned.
What was probably just a communication problem between 2 people ended up being a public drama. Not only it affected you but it also affected all of us who keep being spammed by useless stupid journals.
All the hate and insults and yet they think they can give lessons to you or anyone... haha.
Good luck with the new design, FA -really- needs it.
As for codding/programming chats with other folks, well as far as I know FA is "as it is", so there is no big company with all levels and sub-levels behind it. Being myself an electric engineer, I have to make allot of decisions that at most time takes care of other people life (example safety stuff). And if there is no serious coordination, documentation and trust, things will go out of paws, what we see in the statements above, one thinks he is the most smart fellow, other thinks vise-verse, and we have a never ending debate.
My guess is the lack of planing and coordination is one of the most slow downs for future FA. It a miracle so far, that we have FA running till today, even if it has it downs here and there, but it's working thanks to the folks behind it, it's a fact that we can't deny.
is this still a thing though? the zaush rape thing?
get a fucking life people. zaush is a butthead but there are plenty of real rapists out there that do way worse shit
You want to know why i dont capitalize every single time i should? Im typing this on an iphone.
Also, i am agnostic. I have read many religious texts overthe years. Some were christian, most were not. Dont tell me what *I* believe. It doesnt help your argument.
Possibly you are on the wrong battlefield sir, religious fights are two journals that way. ---->
Cheers on the A+ resolve for what you believe in.
(I don't know what his original comment said, so if i sound out of left field that is why and i possibly owe a apology. It just seems like things were notched up to level 11 in this argument and it makes it seem out of place :3)
I hope that you make FA a better site, it could really do with a talented touch.
Comment wasn't aimed at you, you might have your opinion, I have mine but I don't trying to argue with people whose opinion differs to mine so please do the same.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion weather you agree with it or not, just going through and arguing with those that don't match yours is just incredibly petty.
I look forward to when this whole thing dies down and the drama goes back into remission again.
To be honest, i'm more concerned about the clustered-block thing look of the so quoted "project phoenix" (wich I don't like and, sincerely, prefer the one in use now) than who raped who and when.
- Act hard and tough for or against zaush.
- Pretending they know every damn thing in the world and is a specialist on the topic of rape. Seeing as there is a specialist on everything now adays...
just gonna kick back with my coke here n watch the sparks fly. GG furries. Making yourself look like 10 year old youtubers calling everything fake n gay.
But after reading your total explanatory journal here I can honestly say I do not think you are guilty of any thing other then been harassed over some thing that does not involve others.
Keep up the good work dude and don't let stupid misunderstandings of the past interferer with your promising future.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/10328780/
The sheer ignorance is what makes me want to leave. That people could be so ugly to each other. People want to leave. Fine. People want to stay. Also fine. No one should have to answer to anyone for how their moral compass operates. Opinions are opinions and other people's don't affect your own. That being said, you shouldn't shove yours down anyone's throat. I see a lot of people saying leave it alone, yet those same people instigate argument after argument to try and prove their point. If you say leave it alone, then you yourself should leave it alone too. Those of you saying it doesn't matter to you. Okay! My opinion is not all ignorance is bliss, but there are things you should probably make yourself aware of (not this particularly, but there are things about this site's staff that ought to be known). If you keep your head in the sand, you miss out on bad, pointless things, yes, but you might also miss out on some good things.
And I would have loved to read those logs Zaush, but it seems they're long gone from here, as is the publicity of your Twitter, which you said you posted them on. I'm sure you have tons of notes asking for them too, so instead of asking, maybe you could just mark me down as another one who also wants to view them?
Oh, and last I checked, if an admin farts, people leave the site "never to return," so this "migration" is nothing new, as 99.9% of the leavers will come right back as always.
As for if he's guilty or not, I honestly don't give a damn, as I don't even know him, and neither do half the commenters probably. They, just like NUMEROUS times before, just saw "Zaush" and "rape" in the same sentence, and made like a freaking lynch mob, and attacked with only half-assed "evidence" as a reason. And 2,000+ comments...I could name of entire user pages (galleries AND journals) that don't have that much traffic.
I read the entire bit.
Not sure if I have much to say. Stuff happens dude. I just hope it smooths out for you and you can move on with it. The fandom will heal and move on, its okay if they leave.
People evolve and move on. Be it because of drama, root of drama, or dissatisfaction. They will live, and so will you. Wish you luck on your endeavors.
You have to be screwed up in the head to want a proven animal rapist to be traded for someone who you do not like and was only accused of rape by the ignorant people in the community.
if you have read both sides of this story of Zaush being accused of rape.... you would find this shit fucked up.
i found out from a reliable source that the woman or man (dont really give a fuck) has brought more detail to this supposed act of rape. i myself have been accused of rape and been to court. now you may think oh hey im a rapist lets start bagging on this guy.... no dont even go there. thing is i was accused of something that never happened my lawyer told me to agree to the terms of probation for 2 years even though there was no evidence to back the statement of 1 mother who was a total bitch to my blood line family.
thing is im trying to point out Zaush even if he was or wasnt the suppposed rapist is owning up to anything he says because he feels its best in his duty to step up and just let everyone say your a rapist till your hearts content. sure it seems fishy but for fucks sakes just call him a rapist and leave him alone guys... seriously you give this man enough problems as it is with the shit about the website update but god GET OVER IT JEEZUS... everyone please listen take a deep breath, calm your tits, and try to read. everyone is biased of decisions one may have done in the past. this girl didn't realize that 1. he was trying to be sweet help her in her time of need of pleasure and just be a friendly person who could help with her NEEDS. 2. he is owning up to something that may or may not have even happened and shes just a total douche who wants something out of him.( if you have seen enough tv and shit you would know there are men and women who try to cry rape and get something out of it even though it never happened just like my bitch aunt did)
3. he is openly admitting he did some fucked up things in the past... GET OVER IT. the past is in the fuckin past, present is the present, and the future is the future.
please stop bitching and moaning over something that may or may not have even really happened. he stated he tried to help her in her time of need that she wanted to try and break up with her ex but got back with him. i think that sounds fishy cause ive seen men force a woman to come back by some things and i wont go into detail.
over all BACK THE FUCK OFF PEOPLE IT WAS IN THE PAST IT SHOULD STAY IN THE PAST DONT BE A FUCKIN BITCH PULL THE "oh you did this in the past so ill fuck you over with it" card shit happened back then way back then stop pulling that shit back up that you force the person into depression and can cause them to do things that will make them dissappear.
if you really wanna support anything guys give him a hug apologize say something that will be kind and helpful to him and make him realize that shit is in the past and just needs to be forgot. sure he did fuck up with the site updates but hey thats just in his nature to be a dick about somethings. have you never been a really big dick to someone over something so trivial. if you wanna troll me, flame me, put a pitch fork up my ass.... go ahead i wont respond to you and feed your lil thread. im the one who is deciding to write this tell you to stop, think about what your going to say, and how you should present it. if you really want to respond to me and discuss things stop and think dont try and say oh your defending him cause you know him. i dont even know him im backing him up from what i know is most likely a bitch who wants something from him just like what happened to me.
please understand that there are people who want to see both sides and want to see the right thing. sure ide tell him to step down from tryin to push dragoneer and shit for the site update but please everyone STFU PLEASE. end of discussion stop your nonsense now and nut up and shut up.
Nobody is perfect, so people need to empathize and get their facts strait before they brandish their pitch forks wildly around the room.
As I see it, much good has come of this. This whole incident will succeed to improve FA has a whole, letting survive only the fittest minds while letting the mindless herds of sheeple walk off the Weasyl cliff.
My two cents:
Womanizing was never a crime. It's an extraordinarily common quality which has helped ensure procreation and is as abnormal as grass growing in a field.
Rape has a clear definition and it's definition wasn't met from those who tried to use it in this case. In fact comparing your evolutionary essential personality quirks to sexual assault is a huge insult to every real victim of rape.
Every single furry who has tried to pin a crime without evidence and further publicized private matters should say nothing more then an apology to you and to any poor sap who had to waste a single moment reading about others opinions of business other then their own.
i cant find a opinion bout it .
cause i know well that people that not stable emotional can , well , do thing they will regret and blame people after .
cant think , but do i want to in the end ?
i think not , cause its impossible to find who say the true there
I take pills but I only have sex with my boyfriend, and would never agree to sex without it with somebody else. I once did it and got so terrified the next day that I could have got pregnant, or worse, got a disease... sigh...
By the way, I don't think you are a rapist.
Delete the journal. For the love of ice cream!
Rape is a horrible thing and it never should be done. Sadly people do use the heft that comes with claims of being raped to their own advantage. I could see how it could work fairly well for them. No one wants to protect the 'rapist'. It is an issue that has to be gotten over as much as victims of rape not properly reporting the crime.
False Claims do occur and assuming that it isn't possible is wrong.
But, that being said. False rape claims do exist, the fact that people do so doesn't help real rape victims. It just makes dense people think that all rape victims are lying. But, Assuming anyone that claims to be raped is telling the truth is just as dense. Real victims need help, false 'victims' should not change that.
As far as the wikipedia, I guess you are probably right but I still loath to look to wikipedia for any information that isn't already plastered everywhere else.
Rape accusation. Totally uncool, bro.
You say you didn't do it, I believe you. Skål
I only met you once that year at Califur '09.... but I hope the best for you dude. Choose your friends carefully... and be especially careful with what you do, and who you do it with.
I...was NOT there.
What I see is a man defending this honor.. For years!
Now I see him trying to improve a community he loves and contributes to.
I make no judgement, nor do I try to sway any accusation.
Everyone who hates on celebs just because they're celebs? I guess there were a lot more of them than I thought, because they're leaving FA by the hordes
Cheerios all of you or something
Look at this:
http://conservationreport.files.wor.....our-world.jpeg
How big do your problems look now? Compared the rest of the universe, Earth, and all the events on it, are trivial and so is this pointless bickering over rape accusations.
According to the 'house of cards' logic I've seen in some people's blind and broad based accusations, my mate is a rapist, whether I consent to sex with him or not. I don't understand this way of thinking.
This is blown out of proportion where it should stay within between the parties.
I cannot make any input on this.
For what it's worth, I support you. If you need someone to vent on, I'm happy to have my ear bent.
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Don't fool around with a wishy washy individual with a bunch of loose-ends. You'll find that the ground constantly shifts under your feet.
Once again, I hope that you as well as those who do appreciate you can work through this together!
I've had a few haters try and tell me that you are without a doubt the worst p.o.s. on here and I ask the same old question over and over: If you think he did it, where's the irrefutable proof?
Its your life, the fact that you are fighting for your name is cool, but...
THAT'S FA FOR YOU
SHIT SECURITY AND A SHIT NOTE SYSTEM.
ANNNNYYYWAAYYYY I hope it works out, good luck.
if he really did that, then did he that and raped someone, the law will get him sooner or later and it will hit FA badly
if he didnt raped someone at all happens nothing at all, just stupid rumors which trying to kill zaush´s reputation.
for this journal here
why do you reposted it? its fcking 3 years old x_x
why bringing it up again? if the rumor would be true would you be already jailed and sitting in a prison somewhere.
but you are still here right? so, let the rumor be a rumor >_>
i dont know if you will read this comment here but ... its just an advice from me. you keep the rumor on your own up now because you starting to fight extremly back AND thats what the person who trolls you with that rumor wants! well ... i guess that troll finally reached his goal ~w~
Just scanning over the comments I can see that everyone accusing Zaush is only voicing options without any real evidences to support their words. The only evidence is less than a handful of chat logs and forum posts that don't provide decisive evidence either way.
My own opinion is that the girl wasn't rape and Zaush didn't rape her. Regrets don't equal rape. As far as i can tell girl didn't take any drugs, say no, try to leave, or even struggle during the sex.
Much praise to those that support the side of Logic and Fact. And much hate for those acting purely on opinions and emotions.
this is insane
8/
What rock have I been under?!?
They told me of this happening and honestly...without knowing you at all, disregarded it at all, did not know it was a 3 year long thing and could not have mattered, because believing it was unlikely.
Hope this can be left behind, man.
I was supportive of you from the get go because I knew that It was more than likely that I wasn't getting the full story. You wouldn't be around right now if you had rape allegations against you, at least, that's how the Canadian system works. Something THIS out in the open wouldn't go unnoticed by the authorities for long. But it's the sheep herding mentality that people HAVE TO follow a leader in order to feel safe, regardless of what that leader is saying, got you in shit that you didn't even step in to begin with.
I really hope people stop harassing you over such a flawed and holed accusation. The ignorance and complacent behavior of many people on this site is the true crime. You didn't deserve this bullfuckery at all and I hope you get at least a little recompense for it. Cheers, mate. If anyone deserves a vacation right now, it's you.
Neither you nor the other person involved deserved this going public. We didn't need to know. Has Fur Affinity addressed its security to prevent against further leaks of private information? This is a question everyone can agree is important.
Sorry my post is so late.
Anyway, aside from my small rant about why Weasyl serves me no purpose, I started thinking about that story. The more I thought about it, the more it didn't make a whole lotta sense to me. Like, why she kept going back if it was such an unpleasant experience. I'm glad I decided to check your journals. I was actually about to ask for your side of the story out of curiosity.
Also, felt a huge relief when I read "A common assumption going around is that I’ve been promoted to administration, and was involved with the bans revolving around harassment. I am not, and have no interest in being part of administration, moderation, or sysadmin duties." So glad I ran over here to check your side.
This misogynist, male dominated, mostly white hipster kid community thinks it can pass judgement on a woman.
They think they know about rape.
Ha.