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Community Issues, Concerns and More
11 years ago
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Our primary goal in 2014 is to give a breath of fresh air to the site, the administration, and the community. Over the course of the next twelve months, we plan on overhauling many aspects of the site, as we have started recently by improving transparency and openness with the community.
Over the last several days there have been a number of concerns raised by members of the community, and we wanted to address them in an open format for community review and discussion. Your feedback continues to be important to us as we grow and change, and we look forward to reading it.
We apologize for the delay in posting this article, however we had to come together as a team to ensure that all parties were on the same page as we approached the community.
Rules, Consistency, and Trouble Tickets
At the moment, we understand that there’s a lot of concern with the consistency of moderation, as well as the time taken to respond to Trouble Tickets. Over the next few months, we hope to tackle these issues using a multi-pronged approach.
First, we plan on eliminating much of the ambiguity that currently exists within the Terms of Service and other policy documents on the site. We will be rewriting, condensing, and simplifying many aspects of the rules in order to make them clearer and easier to understand for the community.
Once this is complete, we will begin recruiting new administrative staff. This will include new staff to help with Trouble Tickets, as well as staff to assist in site moderation. We hope to include new procedures and guidelines for training staff that will help to ensure consistency, clarity, and a more positive experience.
By improving clarity, training, and bringing on additional team members, we can work to lower ticket wait times in a consistent and sustainable manner.
Project Phoenix Rumors
Some rumors have circulated regarding a team of coders working on a new version of the site prior to the announcement of Phoenix. While they did ask permission to help, they were not a part of site staff and were working independently on their own project. They were not in communication with site staff, nor involved in site developments.
Additionally, there have been a number of concerns regarding one of our staff members and alleged incidents in his past. Sexual assault is a serious topic, and we encourage anyone who has been a victim of sexual assault to contact authorities or a crisis hotline. We understand the community’s concerns, and we have heard you on this topic. However, there is no criminal background on this topic, nor a violation of Fur Affinity policy, and we cannot make staffing decisions based on allegations alone. We would not knowingly bring someone onto the team with an alleged criminal background without reviewing the situation carefully.
Initially we hid and removed content that brought up these allegations. Our intention was not to stifle users’ ability to bring up criticisms or discussion, but was intended to ensure discussion stayed within the confines Code of Conduct. We will not remove content related to this issue so long as it remains civil and in line with the Code of Conduct.
Site Staff and Data Access
Another concern has related to what staff can access what data. How Fur Affinity collects and handles data, as well as who has access to it, has been subject to a great deal of rumor and speculation over time. Therefore we have started work on a Privacy Policy that will become part of Fur Affinity’s policy documents in the coming weeks. This will outline what data is collected, how it is used to enhance your browsing experience, and how to remove your data from our systems if you wish.
As for staff data access, it should be noted that none of the Project Phoenix developers have access to the production database, where user information is securely stored. Nor do they have administrative access on the site. As for user information, anything not publicly accessible is restricted to trusted administrators, some content only allowing specific administrators to see it, and only under certain circumstances. Fur Affinity does not share your data without your permission except under certain circumstances, such as a valid legal request.
On Old Projects
One concern that has been brought up is the number of old projects we’ve had in the past. We acknowledge that there have been quite a few and we apologize for this, as none came to fruition. Many of these were simply a refresh of the user interface, which often times didn’t pan out due to complications with the site’s existing code that needed to be fixed. Project Phoenix aims to function as a complete transformation of the site, allowing us to rework the user experience as part of a greater whole.
Some have also brought up that they liked old designs better than the new one. We understand, some of them were pretty nice! Unfortunately, a design that looks great for one page won’t always translate well to another, which we found to be the case with our older designs. The way we approached the redesign this time was different, it’s still not final and we’re working on incorporating your feedback, but we can better ensure that it works across our entire application.
2014 and Beyond
Our end goal in 2014 is to improve all aspects of the site. Again, we don’t anticipate this will happen overnight and we ask that you be patient with us. These changes will take time and we’ll continue to update you as they are rolled out. Any questions or comments can be directed to this article, and we’ll be responding to them regularly.
Over the last several days there have been a number of concerns raised by members of the community, and we wanted to address them in an open format for community review and discussion. Your feedback continues to be important to us as we grow and change, and we look forward to reading it.
We apologize for the delay in posting this article, however we had to come together as a team to ensure that all parties were on the same page as we approached the community.
Rules, Consistency, and Trouble Tickets
At the moment, we understand that there’s a lot of concern with the consistency of moderation, as well as the time taken to respond to Trouble Tickets. Over the next few months, we hope to tackle these issues using a multi-pronged approach.
First, we plan on eliminating much of the ambiguity that currently exists within the Terms of Service and other policy documents on the site. We will be rewriting, condensing, and simplifying many aspects of the rules in order to make them clearer and easier to understand for the community.
Once this is complete, we will begin recruiting new administrative staff. This will include new staff to help with Trouble Tickets, as well as staff to assist in site moderation. We hope to include new procedures and guidelines for training staff that will help to ensure consistency, clarity, and a more positive experience.
By improving clarity, training, and bringing on additional team members, we can work to lower ticket wait times in a consistent and sustainable manner.
Project Phoenix Rumors
Some rumors have circulated regarding a team of coders working on a new version of the site prior to the announcement of Phoenix. While they did ask permission to help, they were not a part of site staff and were working independently on their own project. They were not in communication with site staff, nor involved in site developments.
Additionally, there have been a number of concerns regarding one of our staff members and alleged incidents in his past. Sexual assault is a serious topic, and we encourage anyone who has been a victim of sexual assault to contact authorities or a crisis hotline. We understand the community’s concerns, and we have heard you on this topic. However, there is no criminal background on this topic, nor a violation of Fur Affinity policy, and we cannot make staffing decisions based on allegations alone. We would not knowingly bring someone onto the team with an alleged criminal background without reviewing the situation carefully.
Initially we hid and removed content that brought up these allegations. Our intention was not to stifle users’ ability to bring up criticisms or discussion, but was intended to ensure discussion stayed within the confines Code of Conduct. We will not remove content related to this issue so long as it remains civil and in line with the Code of Conduct.
Site Staff and Data Access
Another concern has related to what staff can access what data. How Fur Affinity collects and handles data, as well as who has access to it, has been subject to a great deal of rumor and speculation over time. Therefore we have started work on a Privacy Policy that will become part of Fur Affinity’s policy documents in the coming weeks. This will outline what data is collected, how it is used to enhance your browsing experience, and how to remove your data from our systems if you wish.
As for staff data access, it should be noted that none of the Project Phoenix developers have access to the production database, where user information is securely stored. Nor do they have administrative access on the site. As for user information, anything not publicly accessible is restricted to trusted administrators, some content only allowing specific administrators to see it, and only under certain circumstances. Fur Affinity does not share your data without your permission except under certain circumstances, such as a valid legal request.
On Old Projects
One concern that has been brought up is the number of old projects we’ve had in the past. We acknowledge that there have been quite a few and we apologize for this, as none came to fruition. Many of these were simply a refresh of the user interface, which often times didn’t pan out due to complications with the site’s existing code that needed to be fixed. Project Phoenix aims to function as a complete transformation of the site, allowing us to rework the user experience as part of a greater whole.
Some have also brought up that they liked old designs better than the new one. We understand, some of them were pretty nice! Unfortunately, a design that looks great for one page won’t always translate well to another, which we found to be the case with our older designs. The way we approached the redesign this time was different, it’s still not final and we’re working on incorporating your feedback, but we can better ensure that it works across our entire application.
2014 and Beyond
Our end goal in 2014 is to improve all aspects of the site. Again, we don’t anticipate this will happen overnight and we ask that you be patient with us. These changes will take time and we’ll continue to update you as they are rolled out. Any questions or comments can be directed to this article, and we’ll be responding to them regularly.
"We're keeping Zaush. If you're not down with that, leave."
So about what everyone knew it was going to say.
Guess not though. From what land do you hail, may I ask?
http://reocities.com/muirnin/Dropbear.jpg
Naw, just poking fun... but really, it DOES bother me to see how popular this insult is, because you make it sound like not being fun at parties is a bad or unusual thing. It's not as uncommon as you might think. The trick to getting around this problem is not to push us to go to parties, because it's not exactly everyone's best idea of a good time. A lot of people just assume parties=fun is a universal standard.
okie.
the stars are pretty tonight.
okie
you won a million dollars.
Okie
I sold mu kidney.
okie.
quick eat my cheese fungus.
okie
Dear goggles, I can't stop laughing at how well you're taking this! xD
You're awesome, CWL!
Okie?
Duchess: "Okie."
NITRO WHY.
yes
Its an established word,
Where is the Oxford dictionary staff now?
okie
okie
okie
He didn't.
The rest is cruft.
Largely because of this really shitty societal thing called "victim blaming," which tends to keep rape victims from coming forward and accusing their attacker in a court of law, for fear of being further victimized, traumatized, and humiliated by the people that are supposed to protect and support them.
No conviction =/= no crime, and the fact that
furriessome people seem to think otherwise is kind of skeevy and more than a little scary.Agree totally. Car break ins happen all the time around where I live but no one ever reports them because the cops won't do anything about getting your stuff back or catching the victim. It just simply goes down in the books for statistical records, unless you have proof of an identity they're not gonna do jack squat.
Basically the same with rape I would imagine. If you got no proof so-in-so touched so-in-so your "rapist" could just as easily say you raped them...because of the lack of proof.
The Salem Witch trials used that very logic too with men accusing women false of being the Devils minions. I shudder to think that if even a small portion of people like you got together during that time period how many more innocent women would die due to your flawed mentalities.
I was raped when I was a teen, didn't tell no one for 3 years. When I finally did, the cops grilled the hell out of me then told me with no proof, they couldn't do anything. Because I didn't report it when it happened, no justice could be served. Sad... but I accept it. Like the "victim" I kept quiet because I didn't want more trouble, but not to protect the accused but to protect my family (he threatened to kill my brother before he actually attempted to kill me). When I told someone, it was 3 years later and I told a teacher, I lived hours from where it happened so I was no longer scared. I just was talking about it... not wanting justice. I accept my attacker is still out there, has a family of his own now... and working. I think I was a one time thing, a moment of passion thing... wasn't right and I still hate him for it but I also forgiven.
So... how far do you go to destroy a life of someone who could very well be innocent? Do I think he is guilty? Dunno, don't care unless she attempted to go to the cops. For all I care, a convicted murderer on death row could be designing the site. As long as he does a good job, his crime has little to do with site design.
THIS
THIIISS
If it came up that FA had considered him, or that he had volunteered or whatever, but been declined despite his skills. That he had been declined because we don't want people talking, that in it's own way would indeed BE a conviction by the staff here.
Did he do a bad thing? I don't know.
I do know that if he did, and keeps doing it, eventually he will get caught.
And until evidence says otherwise, he should not be treated any differently than any other user.
Additionally, they have outlined that he and those others working on the project have no access to any data that other users would not have.
He's just a coder.
And seriously, coding a site doesn't exactly bring him into contact with anyone on the site. Rapist or not, whether we even have the right to claim it or not, it's coding! Not personal social interaction!
We've hung him enough. Let's drop it and move on. If I ever meet him and the victim in person, then I'll see if I wanna slap his face off or kick him in the balls. Until then, it's none of my business.
What I mean is in this case, not hiring him due to internet rumor would be despicable, much like the paper that used internet forums to accuse those two men of being the bombers at the boston marathon, they had nothing to do with it but friends family and coworker would believe otherwise
You have to let the law work, and can't impose it yourself that's just the way it is. Even if he had done it, and served his time it's not a job one can really deny to him, working with vulnerable or kids yes, but other jobs no. Otherwise he'd have to go on to benefits, so the taxpayers money would be his salary rather than the ads on here
Our system is innocent until proven guilty, and we have to stick to it.
Christ we have had people who we where SURE were stealing from us, we had evidence but not proof and could do nothing., The law is on the employees side, thats just the way it is. I'm referring to uk law here just to make it clear.
Thing is what happens if a rumor starts about other employees? He sacks them too, or himself, lets the site go, a member? Ban them? Once you start were do you draw the line?
They certainly can effect you, but the question is what other reasons could they provide for not hiring someone. If the person thinks they have not been hired because of a rumor they may take legal action and could win. So though you don't want to take them on you have to make sure there ether a better qualified candidate, or other good reasons for not taking them.
Also as I've mentioned before it's not even direct action that can destroy a life. Some will directly have a go ether in vigilante justice, as with the chap accused of beaing a peadofile due to having a sinnilar neck brrace, or they will suffer constantly online with people having a go, as I dare say the coder is at the moment. Or they are shunned by those they classed as friends. Now you may not be making the law but you are enforcing it in your own way, I've seen school bullies destroy someone without ever touching them. And as we have to take the chap to be innocent until proven guilty one must treat them similarly (though perhaps with caution)
Another example is media portrayal. Not so long ago someone was stabbed to death in my town, the paper portrayed him and his brother as two lovely would never hurt a fly sorts. They were and his brother still is the roughest nastiest piece of work you can find, and then they portray perfectly normal people as the scum of the earth.
And lastly. And I may be going a touch to far here but it's fa, this is no innocent haven, a place a member is likely to tell people in reality they have an account, you find your front page featuring new content quite slowly with sfw enabled do you not? As a whole I doubt the reputation among others can change much now.
And as Adam Wan (the one that wrote the ED article) Already believes all of those connected to the fandom to be peadofiles (ref his article on deviantart) And that each and everyone is a danger to children (ref furfagotry both of wich employed many a fact and screen shot) the image of this site and any like it along with it's uses is unlikly to change to non users in the slightest.
FA could hire Luis Garavito and the world would be like pfft that make sense...Perhaps not
Theres several people we want to fire due to them negatively damaging the business BUT it's bloody hard. Mounds of red tape, and all the time they keep doing damage, just to prove it;s not 'constructive dismissal' course it's bloody constructive dismissal, they go it helps the business and creates a better atmosphere in the work placehow is that not constructive. They may have had good CV's and interviewed above other contenders, but once in they proved to not be what we wanted.
But in the days of no win no fee layers, and the law on thier side, what can you do? You have to jump through every hoop to protect yourself.
And I was under the impression pay was involved, if not then it's a area grey, more volunteering than a job if you will. Far safer position to choose people via opinion
Case and point xbox one, PS4 and Deviant art, super markets and the government. People always bitch and moan, on da they 'go black' then they come back, though a company should not rely on this, it tends to happen. I'm just as guilty of it, said I'd not go back to gta v after charater loss and customer support screwed me over, kept off it for five months and starting to go back even now
People will fuss and moan, then something new will happen they will forget and things will go back to normal
This is no court of law, this site is incredibly polarized. Wright or Wrong the fact that it was not taken to a court of law means it is left to be sorted between the two individuals involved in the alegations and not to be decided by any number of passionate flamers, trolls, FA staff or otherwise.
My sincerest condolences for the girl who has been in any way slighted. There is a way to handle things that is not always a pleasant nor comfortable one.
My sincerest condolences for the guy, who's gotten way more infamy for a private affair that should never have been blown up this big among a group of people that can do nothing to decide their fates in the first place.
And my condolences to everyone who's had their time wasted sitting idly by and waiting for it to all blow over.
omg my sides i can't even handle the stupidity. I couldn't even get past that, jeez.
Women can be every bit as shitty as men because humans are all equally capable of being raging buttholes. A man raping a woman is horrible. A woman falsely accusing a man of rape and getting him fired for something that didn't happen is also horrible. There's a victim in both examples.
Unless there is _proof_ that someone broke the law or otherwise acted in a way inconsistent with being trustworthy to help on FA, everyone needs to just shut up about it. It doesn't matter what anyone "heard" or what "so and so said" or what someone _thinks_ happened. PROOF, or GTFO. The fact that even allegations of sexual misconduct in our lovely culture can ruin someone's life forever is poisonous and totally unacceptable. I don't know the person being discussed. I don't even know his/her name. However, in my opinion, everyone needs to just calm down and leave it alone. It's poisoning FA, it's driving people away, and it's totally uncalled for. So before you start a sentence with 'x' "says", or 'y' "thinks" or anything other than, "I have concrete proof and _here's_where_you_can_see/read_it" think about how you would feel if it was you, or your mate, or your parent, or your best friend being tried in the court of public opinion and found guilty without any basis whatsoever? That's not a situation you want to be in, and it's not a situation you want to put anyone else into. Please, just stop.
It took me 6 years to get a conviction against the man who raped me. 6 years.
This rape ended with me becoming pregnant, and because I chose not to abort the child, I CLEARLY wanted him to rape me.
So, I had DNA evidence of what happened to me, but thanks to victim blaming, nothing was done until the guy tried to take my daughter from me, where he ADMITTED that he raped me.
Good job, Society. Good job.
i can't be assed readin all that x3
I'm gonna speak purely as a businessman here - you aren't doing right by your business. It's your responsibility and that of whatever staff you employ that they do not damage the PR of the business. Your business in particular runs almost entirely on the PR goodwill of the community. And, like my employer, you simply must have a code of conduct for your staff, and if you do, it has been breached.
Putting aside allegations of a serious nature, certain staff have in their communications both here and elsewhere broken what most employers would deem a code of conduct. Inappropriate jokes, messages and tweets should warrant disciplinary procedures where they bring the brand into disrepute. Look at sports, for many examples of this.
So, I don't quite know what legal standing your 'employment' of staff is built on (casual, contractual, full-time, 'off-the-books') but strictly as a businessman: your staff have damaged your brand, and the brand is bigger than they are. You can hire another coder; you can't so easily repair the goodwill that has been lost.
Practices such as hiding admin users from the community, and draconian moderation has not helped, although I understand why you may have felt so at the time.
I urge you to remember that FA also is your business, and whilst it's great to run a very community-focused business, speaking cut-throat that is a mechanism to keep the lights on. Giving back comes too, but losing the brand will leave you unable to do either.
--Onni
--Onni
Reputations in and of themselves are a double edged sword. While yes they can help in a particular field, they can also put one into their power, where they become more powerful than they really are or need to be. Worse case scenario, they can make us slaves to it, willing to do anything to preserve it, even at terrible cost. Afterall, what is a reputation, but mere words in the minds of the few that care. If one has the reputation of being a difficult commissioner of artwork, it really doesn't mean anything in ones life if one is a darned good used car salesman.
Anybody can make an allegation. One can point a finger and say "Joe over there is a crook! I loaned him $5 for popcorn at the movies and he hasn't paid me back yet!" Yeah, technically that may be so from one standpoint, but it is hardly the whole story if Joe says that it was mutually agreed on that he was going to pay the guy back this coming payday, and at the time when all this blows up, it's currently the middle of the week. So while yeah, there is the kernal of truth in there, it's enough to make the blowing out of proportion believable.
While the offender list may be helpful to those that are in need of it, it does essentially say in these mailers "Hey, this is just a public service. Even though we put this guys picture, name and address out there, in no way are you to go out there and hassle this guy,make his life hell, take him out in the street and beat him up or lynch him." And with that it is given to the collective law abiding nature of us all not to do that, to say "Ok, yeah, fine, I guess this guy has done his time, he is in the system trying to become a productive citizen again, it is up to us to live and let live. But we don't have to like it!" and not grab flaming torches and pitchforks and chase him off like Frankenstein's monster to the castle. "NNNNN! Fire BAD!"
Yeah, Unfortuately in this day and age it is all too easy for us to be branded as this or that depending on what our outside interests are. Furry fandom can cost fans jobs simply because they are fans. Seems like one just can't win. *Shrug* Yeah, on the whole there are some fights which you just gotta say its not worth it.
--Onni
--Onni
--Onni
Don't get me wrong: I understand your point and have thought as much as well. I just don't believe that if he hasn't done it, he shouldn't get the backfire from it. It'd also kind of support the flame wars going around which might all be wrong in the first place.
"Sorry bud, people don't like you so you gotta go." Rather than give 'em a chance to redeem themselves or prove the public wrong? "Your image is unattractive and you're bad for business. So, you gotta go." I think that people should have at least the chance to clear stuff up.
Now on how they act-- I have no idea about any of that. I only address what I've said above and imply nothing either way on anything else from your post. I don't have enough information to even FATHOM an opinion, let alone take a stance.
I think what Dragoneer is saying is that they've looked into the guy, the guy doesn't seem to be what he's accused of (a bit of an assumption on my part and I could be wrong), so everything should be copacetic. Hearsay and public rumor don't reflect his coding skills and they wouldn't hire on an alleged criminal, especially of that nature. Again, assumption on my part and I could be wrong. I won't hold fast to false information. I'm all about the truth.
I still agree with this, like I said: "I urge you to remember that FA also is your business". He does need to take things into consideration (though it seems so far he already has).
I also say that people need to stop assuming the worst and spreading bad PR where it isn't deserved or correct. (People kept saying if you talk about it you get banned, and it wasn't exactly the case. It's if you violate code of conduct and start just spewing a bad reputation around, you'll get suspended. And because it was an FURAFFINITY WIDE phenomenon, they had to do SOMETHING about it, just like any other person would get; it's not just because it's that guy or a popufur is my point.)
Gah, I gotta stop rambling. I told myself I need to keep it short and sweet about three chunks back. x_x;
I'll also do a quick note, to ANYONE reading this: I don't pick sides. I look for facts and I go with what I feel I should do from there. And just in case, again to anyone: So don't accuse me of supporting this or that, shaming and blaming and attacking, 'cause I'm honestly not supporting any damn thing and I won't be dragged into that bullshit. If people can't take the time to understand what I mean, then that's their problem and not mine. I've had this problem with people way too much lately. :l
TL;DR: I'm not siding with anyone. I don't feel like just because someone's image is bad for PR that they should be immediately booted-- especially when that PR might not even be true. Isn't that the kind of crap that furries have to face from the rest of the world, btw?
Case in point, I'll use something that's not related to business: Education.
If a teacher is accused by a student of having done something to them sexually, the teacher is IMMEDIATELY suspended pending an investigation by the administration, the school board, the teacher's union, and the police. Even if, through the course of the investigation, the claims are found to be false (and in this profession, many such claims are falsified since teenagers are vindictive little buggers), the teacher's career is essentially ruined, to say nothing of the lost income from the suspension that lasts until the conclusion of an investigation. The teacher lost their reputation whether the allegations were true or not, and it makes it more difficult to find jobs. Many people leave the profession because the rumors persist for so long and they are very strong. Anyone from a teacher's society in a given province/state would tell you the same thing (My information, in this case, comes from the Manitoba Teachers Society, directly from the man in charge of handling such disputes)
Is that fair? No.
Is that reality? Yes.
In FA's case, the guy has to go. Period. It doesn't matter what he did or didn't do. It's what the allegations have done to him. This is true in both business and education and probably many other sectors in life.
On the other hand, this guy is not in a position of authority, and does not invoke any sort of trust beyond fanboys of his art. He does not have access to anyone's name, date of birth, personal information, address, or even IP address, email, et cetera (unless such information is posted publicly, of course). He has no power. The only ability he has is to fire up Dreamweaver (or his editor of choice) and type things. In a few months, he'll zip all of that off, send it to Dragoneer, and his job is done. He doesn't have any administrative access. Moreover, he doesn't warrant an internal investigation anyway, because what is there to investigate? Teachers having sexual relations with students leave a physical trail. Some guy inviting someone else to his house to fuck is far less traceable beyond the evidence that we've been provided already.
Imagine, if you will, the guys from Office Space. Say that Tumblr existed at the time, and someone posted a private email conversation between some girl, who happened to be a client of Initech, and her friend about how Peter (the main character) is a bit of a sexual deviant and might have pressured her into having sex. Should the Initech board of directors suspend him and carry out their own internal investigation? No. What's the purpose? There's nothing for them to investigate. He isn't in a position to use his job as leverage for sex, unlike a teacher or a cop. And even if they did, could they fire him based on this accusation alone? Of course not. They would be sued in an instant for wrongful termination. Of course, the FA coding position is entirely voluntary and as such falls under a different set of rules, but the principles behind it remain the same.
There is a huge difference between the two scenarios.
The brand is already heavily damaged by the rest of the furry drama going on. A lot of people are taking advantage of the opportunity to move on the basis that FA in general is a terribly-run website, not because of the accused rapist scandal. Firing a developer would not really change that (in fact, some would probably perceive it as a blow against the site's stability and development, making things worse).
dragoneer makes all his money off it.
Think clearly on this before you say anything.
We are people, who can't fly. Did we accept this or did we work away around it to make Botha truth and a lie at the same time?
Point being is,just because something is "the realty" of a situation, doesn't mean you can't stand up to reality and say "I disagree with you" and try to change it.
We as humans have proved reality is relative and that it can be altered and changed.
My problem, is twofold.
One.
It doesn't matter what everyone else does or how people treat others falsely accused of such crimes in the real world. We are furries, we aren't "everyone else".
Many people think furries are just people whom have sex dressed as animals, or are simply perverts and sexual deviants. Never mind the reality, never mind the community, never mind the facts. Just shun the furries!
Is that fair? No.
Is that reality of how many people treat us? Yes.
Does that mean we should think of fellow furries the same way?
Two.
There is no proof of any rape. There are no official allegations, no police reports, no inquiries. Hell, there isn't even a specific person claiming to have been raped. It's all allegations based off of rumours, "leaked" information and hearsay. Quite frankly, it is a witch hunt.
So simply banishing someone based off rumour, hearsay and "like the rest" attitudes, means that rather than go bye the facts, we want to judge someone, ruin their credibility and possibly even their life, simply because it's the popular or mainstream thing to do.
We're furries. We've been unjustly judged, shunned and have had baseless accusations of untrue things our entire lives. And now we do it to our own?...
Sorry mate, but in a world of people hating others for no reason other than it's popular or mainstream thing to do so, assuming guilt, rather than proving it... I'll give the man the benefit of the doubt, rather than ruin his life over rumours and haters, who've already taken their toll.
grats ignorant twit
It may not be the best situation - morally speaking - because as you do point out, a large number of innocent people are hurt by policies like this. Gay people, people of color, people of specific religions, etc., all used to be fired for bullshit reasons under similar justifications until legal protections were put in place.
It's all a very big grey area, morally. Ideally, people would be innocent until proven guilty, but practically speaking, that kind of assurance is not going to make the parents of the kids at the daycare who just hired an accused (but un-convicted) child molester suddenly be OK with it. "Oh, there was no evidence? Just a report? That's OK. My kids are totally safe!" Yeah, right. :)
(It's happened quite a lot with guys being accused of sexual harassment and such because it's an easy target and crying women are often easy to listen to, then the guy's life is ruined forever, just as one example. In terrifying amounts. I've seen at least two people in the few journals I've skimmed through mention something like this, let alone those who don't speak up and those I haven't seen. It's terrible.)
Thank you very much for the perspective. I appreciate it a lot. :3
And yeah, unfortunately, situations like this suck. The best thing you can do is try to "play it safe" and not blindly trust either party until one of them is officially exonerated. Which means being careful around accused rapists, and possibly taking steps to warn others and protect yourself, but not going "BURN THE RAPIST!".
That's not to say that you should throw tons of distrust at self-identified rape victims. Yeah, it's a double-standard, but I think rape accusations are likelier to be true than not, and providing support and comfort is important. I wouldn't want to NOT do that just because a small portion of victims might be lying.
And ditto to you. It's not common to see reasonable and chill people during this kind of stuff. Or maybe it is, they're just drowning in the sea of rage and drama, flecks here and there. xD
See you guys on Weasyl.
While I understand evidence of an act has not appeared, it isn't changing how the community is reacting to it. People are leaving because they feel uncomfortable with this decision. Yeah, people may be acting rashly, but I've never seen such a strong and pervasive reaction throughout FA.
As a business person as well, I can't understand the decision from a PR perspective either.
Maybe they should hire you as their pr guy. You seem to have a far better handle on it than anyone else on the staff.
This pretty much sums it up. The issue so many are having is NOT if he is guilty or not guilty, but how the situation was handled. The way it has been laughed off and ridiculed is so extremely unprofessional. Very, very good comment!
That said, I agree with all other points of this post.
90% of us who are staying here on FA. Are only staying for the money we can bring in from commissions. Even if most of your watchers and artists you admire leave. Then the other 5% who stay, no comment.
Long version: FA staff spewing nonsense to cover their asses.
TL;DR version: What Nemo said.
They weren't rumours, everything that was discussed in the forums I still have saved on my computer.
Rumours my arse.
Humans judge all the time. We are not all judges in the legal sense but everyone is a judge in SOME sense.
Also,"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is a rhetoric that goes against what our nations court system is supposed to be about, just like what the court of Public Opinion sadly does. It's a horridly bad thought process that follows a "guilty-until-proven-innocent" mindset, basically says "Let's string him up and worry about whether or not he's innocent while he hangs!". It follows the idea that the accused is guilty as charged and the state of whether one is innocent or not is treated as an afterthought. Such a mindset will inevitably result in false convictions. That's why proof is supposed to be paramount. Just because "he said" and "she said" this happened does not mean there is no room for doubt of a persons guilt, and to say otherwise is pure foolishness.
Second, just because I say "absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence" does not mean that I am a proponent of "guilty until proven innocent." However, I do find a jury system of justice to be an immensely flawed one especially because of the fact that many jurors simply aren't trained to put emotions to the side and give a fair verdict. "Twelve Angry Men" is a play that shows just how flawed the jury system was then and currently is now. Personally I find that the jury should not be the only opinion that matters as far as giving a verdict. In my own opinion the judge as well as a panel of jurists (legal experts) should have some ability to give a say on the verdict.
I really hope there isn't a large group of people who are honestly ONLY concerned with that one thing, because this site and its mods have far more issues, many of which were addressed here. They're far from in the clear in my eyes, at least until they can prove that they're willing and able to shape up.
just goes to show that you can't trust anything admins promise you
im sure they sign a document that says they will treat everyone fairly
and what a crock of shit that is
its just like the government
and if this gets deleted because im voicing my opinion based off of what the staff has done in the past
they can kiss my scaley ass
legally there is nothing they can do to me.
i didnt sign a contract/terms of agreement when i joined this website, they cant ban me nor my IP because i was never asked to abide by a set of rules. should they do, they can have class actions filed against them for the gathering and storage of personal information
X'D!!
Ooh alright ahahah
(Also...journal is...laggy.)
Nuuuuu
Okeh?
Nuuuuuuuu
Okie?
Okie!
Okie! 8D
(flip them around, it'll make sense >.>)
Though I may be wrong.
I appreciate Neer for buying the site and keeping it going even people are asshats. ^~^
Yes i appreciate the site and all, but that doesn't mean i have to be COMPLETELY okay with everything that happens with it. Hince why some people left.
Anyone else notice that whenever the site or dragoneer does a thing, and people get angry, other people tell them to leave if they don't like it. But then when they make the effort to do so, they get people going
"YOU HATE ADMINS/SITE FOR NO REASON!! Y U LEAVE?!"
Name me something. :I
My comment was really meant more to mean the time and effort that the staff puts into running it, the OP didn't seem to realize that.
It could be argued that by uploading art/music/etc they are contributing to the site in some way and can have some opinion, but I tend to agree with you, and say that they would have MUCH less weight than someone who actually DID something for the site.
But seriously, I really have no problem with people using multiple sites. Hell I TECHNICALLY still have a presence on VCL (though I literally haven posted there in 10 years... wow, now *I'M* showing my age)...
I don't even mind people moving to Weasyl, but if a person is going to move, just move over there, give a simple "hey i'm moving" and go. All this drama and shit people are doing is just ridiculous really.
Also they need to know if they are moving to another site, they will get SIGNIFICANTLY less traffic than they will there, as even with as many people as are moving, MANY more are staying.
But yeah, if you only have a couple hundred watchers and you've been on the site for a while, it probably won't be too much different anyway. I do agree with you on the Weasyl part. People don't need to post in this comment section about moving to Weasyl or anything of the sort. Hell, I think it's dumb to even remove your account here. FA could change how it operates, just don't use your account. Remove what you think could be used against you if privacy is your beef and just use Weasyl. Look back only when you need to.
GET OFF MY LAWN! *waves a walker with tennis balls on the legs at you*
Anyways, the real issue, and it has been brought up a few times here, is with artists who make significant money off of commissions. If they go purely to Weasyl or Inkbunny etc, they will lose a LOT of their clientele, and it is just bad business sense.
Kinda like when someone doesn't agree with.. say.. Wal-Mart, but cant justify how much more they would pay elsewhere so they give them their business anyways. I see that particular issue a lot.
Eh, we will see. I tend to post in large bursts cause I am lazy, LOL.
Only one person can complain apparently for the past few months.
--Onni
-Danda
--Onni
Like...is this Key and Peele? Or Saturday Night Live?
No amount of drama can keep me from enjoying FurAffinity, and I'm totally looking forward to the new layout.
That said, my actions speak louder than words, and it will take proof to back up my claims. I intend to deliver. This community is very important to me, and I want to make things better across the board.
Well see
SO just so you know I am on of the ones that believes in you dragoneer. ^~^
It would be silly to fire someone over something that is not true. . .
I have had someone be accused of being a rapist but I know it wasnt true because the girl was a dramatic bitch and she was just trying to get her sons to stay with her and not him (he was her ex husband)
and he was a quite sweet man.
I have been raped before so I am all about justice to assholes like that-but really if he was a rapist, and it was actually true-the authorities could easily prove it as everything on the internet is stored FOREVER even IF you delete it. . . so that is why I dont really think they are, and I believe it is just a rumor and something someone is blowing out of proportion. Some people on here are far to dramatic and that is why FA doesnt want to just go and fire an admin over a rumor. Plus who knows maybe the acusors are just trolls trying to get back for something they may have done to upset them.
I cant really defend anyone though, because I have no clue whats going on and no one will really tell me (I really think no one has a clue but they are just dramatic and say shit spreading the rumor more)
AKA Check it yo http://furryscumbags.tumblr.com/pos.....-ashes-im-gone
Get yourself educated so you know what the fucks going down
B)
Furry logic.
How do you do that, with this attitude?
a lot of victims (including myself) are upset that he is in charge not only for the rape allegations but also for the times hes claimed to start a project and never do it. it also makes people uncomfortable knowing theres a rapist in charge of changing the website.
if you would like more information about the issue a quick google search might help. i dont want to get banned (probably will anyway) so i wont link you to the specific ones- but i know copies of the conversations with the victim to neer are available, as well as zaush making rape jokes and victims expressing what happened.
(i apologize if this is in any way triggering for you- i do not want to offend you, and especially, i dont want to upset you if you are a victim. i just think this is very serious and i dont want people to go uninformed or misled)
Rape has a false report rate identical to any other crime. People lie just as often about being burgled, but nobody uses that to justify not believing people who say they were robbed.
There are number of barriers to getting someone prosecuted for rape. Even with the perfect expected set up, ie serious injuries done to be a virgin viciously attacked by a total stranger and full DNA evidence? A rapist can still walk free.
It is not silly to fire someone who may pose a threat to vulnerable individuals, because site owners are supposed to think about public safety. It was silly of Neer to hire someone who was suspected of such thing in the first place.
firing the rapist is probably the best idea
Well, see. It's going to take a whole lot more than this weak journal to earn our trust back.
Good luck, is all I can say, good luck because you are all going to need it.
looking forward to see how you and
your team turn the site around.
A new look sounds nice and refreshing
after the same one since like 2008
Sorry that people have to be rude over
something so little and pointless to get
upset and angry about.
not the journal
meaning I am not talking about that
I'm talking about his comment.
Which by the way has nothing to do
with the sexual assualt thing.
and sorry I do not have any room in
that issue. I can't prove it true or not
so I do this thing called ignore it because
I don't even know the two people that
the issue was about.
You insulted someone for their opinion by calling them a jerk and telling them to leave. Now you think you're an adult just because your opinion doesn't match his and you're staying because of it?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
how dare they
I'm sure I'm not the only one who just wants this shitfest to end and FA and its community to emerge changed and better than before. And for people not to feel bad or pressured about logging in to or afraid of expressing themselves fully. Which seems to be the general feeling that's floating about now.
And now this 'update' where....well...you don't really do anything to address the concerns, just that you're holding the course you've set and that's just how it's gonna be.
I do hope you read my journal aimed at you and the links within it. while the one was written by someone who was livid at the time, there is a lot of interesting facts there...quotes...logs...etc. Rape...whether prosecuted/legal charges/what have you are pressed or not...is still rape. Can we at least agree on that one point?
Even so, by that logic, if I were to murder someone and dissolve the corpse in acid, leaving NO remains, then I wouldn't be a murderer. If I jack a car and leave no trace of tire tracks or where the car went then I'm not a thief. Your logic is insane, misguided, and illogical.
Just because there isn't evidence of the rape doesn't mean it didn't happen.
There do not have to be bruises, cuts, tears, etc for it to be rape. Rape is a sexual act by forcing consent, whether that consent is through physical means or mental manipulation and abuse.
Please learn more before continuing to comment about things like this.
Summary - Rape does not always have touchy feely proof and a hundred nos followed by a yes does not mean yes...it means rape.
I believe ya, but I think that I need to see progress before I can back ya 100%
You could have avoided all of this, had a fantastic site refresh, and still come out smelling like roses. Now you've got a clean division, white knights and enraged furs... and a couple of very disgruntled site architects who will remember how this went, and second guess any following projects.
If you and your team can pull it off, fantastic. I wish you luck, and hope you know what you're doing this time around. But if not, you've got a cataclysm on your hands here. When the person that designed and founded this site posted a different site we could find him at... I think that's indicative of the general faith in Project Phoenix.
Some are just stubborn and need the right information to be proven wrong or right or to be satisfied.
Just so you know most of us are thankful for what you guys are doing
Thank you~
That just really bothered me for some reason
SPOILER: FA never does and probably never will.
Dragoneer Goes Shoplifting And Gets Grounded!
'Neer, you are terrible. Not only do you not know how to into finance, administration or even basic common decency, but you also have the gall to act as though this project rides on you alone. Just how damned arrogant do you have to be, to turn around and say stuff like this?
Not that I'm fussed, mind - as far as I care, watching you fluster like a politician losing his cue cards is funny as all hell, but do you honestly think you have any sort of credibility anymore? You've run this place like your own personal playground, run it into the mud and beyond, made a lot of good, decent artists jump ship with the way you handle things, and you still expect us all to believe you (after several failed attempts) to make them all come crawling back under the promises of roses, wine and a nice lick of paint? Can you honestly be this dense?
The damage is done, 'Neer. Just let it die, turn the place over to somebody with a little stuffing between their ears.
Not every concern a person brings up is 'drama'. If I say 'hey, the paint job I just got on my house is shitty', I don't expect a decorator to say OH MY FUCKING GOD YOU'RE SUCH A FUCKING DRAMA QUEEN JUST FUCKING SIT DOWN AND ACCEPT IT.
But then, you're one of those randoms that thinks that any sort of criticism is drama, rather than just that person saying 'shit's fucked, yo'. Run along back to your hugbox, child, and hope we don't fucking invade Portugal again.
If it's not though, hooooooooooly crap.
Thanks.
have fun arguing with people you essentially the same as
No, I'm completely honest. I have no idea what you're trying to say here, and I'd like to give you the chance to try and make your point again.
you are using autism as an insult and defending it
that is bad and not much better then anyone else whos being disgusting on this journal
that is what I'm telling you, the only way to redeem yourself is to apologize
its not very good to see you do this when i've been agreeing with most of your comments here
Besides, the insult wasn't directed at you. I utterly despise people getting upset for things that don't concern them.
For people with autism, calling someone "autistic" as an insult has implications upon themselves as people. The running rhetoric is that children with autism are generally on the same level as the average pinhead, or idiot. Reality and research show otherwise. That does not detract the impact of the words use as a slur.
Also you forget what a community is about, especially on a public site like this. When you post here in this journal, it's anything but private, and you leave yourself open to public opinion and criticism from outside forces. You want this to not be our concern, take it to notes. Yet you didn't, and left yourself open. That fault is not anyone else's but your own.
As someone who has good friends who are autistic, (though even if I didn't) using it so freely as an insult is disgusting to me.
What a scum lol.
The fact that she said that was extremely offensive to me and my close friends who are also autistic, why would I feel people with autism were less of people? That's so silly! I adore my friends and see them and anyone else who is autistic just as equally as anyone else.
Sounds like a plan. :O
With umlauts.
The miserable handling of this situation has angered a massive percent of the user base, and sent them off to other sites that are already leaps and bounds ahead of FA's design. You have no other option but to be serious.
But "damn the torpedos, full steam ahead" isn't a serious response.
"Actions speak louder than words" is a saying most know well because it's really how you show that more than what could be said that what can be seen would be the determination of character and trust. That being said I have to disagree with how you handled things up to this point over the course of now and at least several of the years I have been here.
There have been plenty of things out of your or the rest of the admin's control with the down times, server failures and such, but when it comes to a lot of sensitive subjects it seems the approach at times is to just sweep it under the rug until it blows out of proportion. There needs to be more transparency if I am using that right and if you are going to bring someone onto projects that things might be questionable on somethings of the past, you may want to have a better discussion on it first. In a way you did get that, but not to the extent I would think many would be satisfied with in how it happened here now.
I feel in general that much of the higher ups lack responsibility and while you have visions for how this site and community should be, and it's going to be all the users that determine how things will progress. All users young and old are the backbone of why this even exists today and each one has a voice. Though at times when they share it might not be in the best judgement so muting them with suspensions temporarily on one hand might be seen. Honestly I didn't see what they said to make an observation, but if it was done to save on overall bandwith then you need a medium to discuss such things and not just throw them up on the site for a bulletin. You could redirect everyone someplace they could voice it, be it the forums or elsewhere in order to keep things civil and out of the way of the overall website if that is a concern. I think that overall should be something considered in the near future.
That's just one alternative, overall it really just made things seem as censorship over the matter when it really shouldn't. The fact is again the users pay the bandwith when they get ad space, or the fact when they donate supplies for your servers or even funds directly to you or the site. As those that clamor and say the website is free? It is not by a margin and is operated solely on the graces of generosity of the community. So again everyone has a voice because even if they may not assist you like others have, there may come a time that they may do things that aid you in the long run and it always branches out when more do. It looks like a lot of donations start like this and they try their best to show they care, especially when feelings run rampant like this.
Over the sum of all these years, I feel a lot was lost on this site when it should not have been. I have seen a lot less social integrity and that by far is something very much lacking as of late. When you are of a community this size and you want to keep everyone on the same page, it can be quite a feat. Whether it is the courts to decide or not, allegations in this community on things sometimes could hold up to be true. I was here when this was first brought up and it was pushed under the rug in nearly the same fashion with bans and suspensions. There have been other incidents too where again this would happen simply from others asking what was actually going on. When someone at higher power is caught up in some type of scandal or drama, they are not the best to recruit for things that oversee much, including privacy and overall full workings on the backdoor or backbone to this very site. You wish people to be assured on things, but your word right now is not going to be enough. Any member of your admin working on the website that has had somewhat of anything sketchy going ever for their time on this website or the community should not be even part of restructuring. One artist or you or me or anyone is not the entire community, but they should have the responsibility to know that they might not be suitable for the task when there is much objection and it is known there was those already capable of handling it. How the situation is being handled so far only further cements that. There are times when you must show that integrity and be more responsible with things and putting more faith in those that can show they can work and not always go toward those that might be close friends one way or another and you probably do not wish to hurt them from excluding them from your vision.
That could possibly be one way on seeing it, from what I have gathered like many others you could have favored this person despite somethings of their past that they seemed worthy of pressing things forward. I don't know what happened exactly with the others that worked on it but I can't speak for them. Again you may want this whole community united over this and right now you have to be infallible to get everything to work. This whole thing will not bring the community together but only rip them apart and it already has done so.
Every time something happens on this scale you can see who is newer to the scene as in they still see all the possibilities a place of acceptance to them will give. They have more patience. It's an open world of discovery much like when you first take your footsteps out in setting out on your own, graduating high school or turning that mile stone in your life where there will be much more because of potential. But that doesn't make this place a paradise and any person here can't justify just putting everything off their lives to a furry side. Those that have been here know sort of the truth. There has been too many lies to them and broken promises, sacrifices and too many things dishonorable, immoral, illegal in their eyes that society in a way branded to common folk sees furries as deviants and in ways that might be true. They come for acceptance and that is not what they get here. There will always be drama here because it is part of life and the complexity it is to be human. There are those honorable as there are those dishonest. People hurt everyday from losing family members passing away or the fact a loved one is injured, sick or in need of help. The needing of aid due to not having enough money to make ends meet is something seen almost on an everyday scale. You watch enough people you can easily pick out one on any given day to see their struggles. If one thing this community is a very giving one and many people deserve to shine brighter than others because they have done so with their heart many times over. Many of them are possibly ones you suspended or even banned for their voice now.
It feels like responsibility only seems to come up when it's absolutely necessary as in whatever happened that you're finally going forward a route to actually update the site more than just throw more parts at it. While it is a step in the right direction, why has it taken over five years to implement? Yes you want 2014 to be there year everything turns around, but what about every year up to this point? What goals do you set? What do you see for things in the immediate future? I couldn't answer that beyond the scope of those that occupy my life like any other user here, but I can answer those questions for myself in my goals, how about you? Since you're at the top of the mountain here at most you're the one that sees the sky and should be able to move things forward. The problem there is I don't see someone too capable at the helm unless they matured a bit in their core. As in grow up. How everything blows up like this only shows in a way that it's almost an endless cycle to the drama that in a way that will remain when there is always a certain group of individuals attached. I'm not telling you to step down because that's not my right to say, nor would I enforce such a thing, but I would think from all of this you may need to dig a bit deeper in yourself in exactly how you treat this website and the users in general. Is it just a community? Is it a business? Are you putting more toward close friends than getting the job done? It really feels a bit on the latter. I wish it didn't feel that way, but for the longest time it does, and especially from all of this.
This isn't a call out or anything of that nature but more like a heart to heart. You can see how upset everyone is for one reason or another, and in their way in how this impacts them they are justified to feel it. Not one person is right or wrong depending on their view. Most just want to carry on as they always have, but whenever there is a slight change from the status quo has this site ever been able to? I can't remember any time it has in all of this because there's always drama attached. I wouldn't want your job, but at the same time I would rather try to support those friends and artists somewhat to this site in the fact that something might light up and there's an actual change. Things get done and it can be taken as such. The problem with that is the choices that lead up to it. Which sometimes you have to ask yourself before full implementation if it is the right thing to do. Here is where you may in the future ask which in a way you should on who gets put toward certain tasks because in a way it all boils down to how you see this community to you, but above all you have to treat it like a business. You have to keep that over friendships because at the end of the day that is what this website is. It is a conglomerate of the furry kind of a community, but it is also an artistic marketplace that provides to many their only means of support in the world of today. They are sacrificing other ventures and other means to support themselves to provide your website with content. With other viable options you have to keep yourself relevant or face the fact of things slipping out of your grasp once and for all and FA would just be a memory. This year really is make or break for you probably more than you realize or you are seeing just that now.
This is where you really need to be infallible and have that squeaky clean reputation right now because word of mouth in a social site that depends solely on social interactions from commenting on someone's work to commissioning can go a long way to the user experience if the overall environment is not safe or healthy. You could make this site ten to a hundred times better, but if your actions are questionable to get there, who is really going to stay? Maybe more of those newer users that have not yet felt the taint of time in being here. The empty promises, drama, site outages, the list goes on. You are going to keep seeing an exodus anytime you break now. There is so many other options that I doubt one year from now or even six months for time that it will ever be the same here with the amount of users you have. That is if things don't change. I'm not going to tell you what to do because that's your decision, but remember in all of this you need to put the users first. Allow us to voice concerns, push to live skype chats, feeds or streams, something if bandwith is a problem. If people are upset or whatever. Channel it away from the site in a social, but professional way and people will respect you for it. Do not just start silencing people over it as that can be a very big lesson to learn and I hope that one sticks.
Whatever choices you make propels you and everyone else further along as we have to make our own choices as well. The options we have always change and in most cases get smaller and smaller until there's only one path forward to the end. This could be my last act here on this website today from posting this. I could be suspended or even banned, but the point I am trying to make is to not harass admin or the higher ups, but for you and them to take a look around and see what all of this is doing to the user base, your community. This website and community is far bigger than one artist, an admin team or any one user. It is that conglomerate of a furry type of family you crammed into these interwebs that for the most part was built and shaped by each and every user that his placed themselves here over all this time. A few simple words is not going to fix things this time, nor is just overnight slapping together any old site to work like magic and brand new. You need to re-instill that faith in those that come here that it is the place to be for anything furry, and it is going to be your biggest hurdle this year because from what is going on I really don't see you keeping too many much longer if things aren't addressed better here and it's going to take time.
I probably would have left like others three years ago from the drama I had to overcome and if it wasn't for someone here I knew back then things would have been a lot different without her, and I bet here there are many that have someone here who has helped that experience be better. It gives them that driving force to comment here even though it is possible they could share the same fate as several already from speaking on this. They do it for them. You can take away this website though, but those people will carry on along with everyone important to them from here.
It reminds me back in the day of the old Sciggles streams where the one time you sang 'A Whole New World' and you know that could be felt here. This could be a whole new world from everything changing, but will it be seen as a heaven or hell to your community is what remains to be seen. If it's anything like this, then you need to close this Pandora's box before you only make this community suffer further and think outside of that box you created.
I would assume that most of the people who use this website would rather see it succeed than fail... but the failure of a company, organization, or project often comes right down from the top. If we don't have strong, capable leaders who commit to the success of the website and what's best for it, and they instead just cater to what they personally want and don't take the problems seriously, the site will slowly fail and die out. It would be a horrible loss to the Furry Community on a global scale if this site flounders out into irrelevance.
These words speak REAL fucking loud, asshole.
Do NOT let your personal feelings on things get the better of you. You HAVE to run this website professionally, and that also means taking community-wide complaints seriously, and actively working on the PR (Public Relations) as it pertains to both yourself and your staff members.
You owe it to the furry community to make this work. Don't let us down, soldier.
They were promised a very long time ago.
They were also repeatedly promised!!!
But nothing happened.
Note.:
Other things were also promised.
But there is also nothing happens.
In order to recover confidence it would be good to keep the promises.
You've tried to act, you may fail in everything you do, but trying matters.
Lots of shit goes on. You may have never fixed anything or succeeded in anything. You tried to.
Mind you, trying works. Giving your word works. Failing also works.
It's if you never tried, never spoke, and never even failed, that would have been worse.
And let's face it, a staff member committing rape is the smallest of worries if even half the things that gone on that police have taken notice and made their threats.
If anything, you have your hands full with more shit anyone can ever imagine, and more than you and anyone could ever solve.
Seriously, thanks for even keeping this site around and dealing with all these messes.
Last note, having experienced countless horrific things in life, and having been mocked and abused for even making claims of rape and molestation happening that eventually was revealed and was never done with apology or justice happening, I know what is going on, and I hope Zaush, if he doesn't suffer for this in FA, rots in hell, amen.
2) A TON of people have issues with Zaush...and the PR fallout of putting him in charge of this has been rather huge.
3) You claim to care about this community...again and again you state this.
So...after seeing how polarizing this choice has been, after seeing how it's tearing apart the very community that you state you care so very much for...after you've stated that he's not the only one coding...why is it so impossible to have him step down, go back to just being an artist...and have the rest of the coders take over?
Might be a case of 'way too late' by now....but why is it you 'never' seem to be able to even entertain the idea of doing anything other than what you've decided to do...no matter the consequences?
I love FA but....I cant see much that you have done for it. Besides being the owner, that's about it.
THIS so much
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:38205719
As for my explanation, rewritten:
1) Nearly no case of rape is found to be false
2) Most cases of rape are actually not reported
3) it is said of Zauch that he commited rape
4) Therefore he committed rape
Ka already pointed out how (1) is not even a fact relevant to this argumentation because of how that statistic is made. And using (2) and (3) together to blame someone as in (4) is pure conjecture, I'll show it right now:
1) Nearly no case of rape is found to be false
2) Most cases of rape are actually not reported
3) I say of you that you commited rape
4) Therefore you committed rape
This line of reasoning was used for centuries to burn people accused of witchcraft; we have a better justice system now, which requires proof and is not based only on allegations.
I don't agree with your second statement, you seem to already assume there is a victim when you say "This is a case of public respect and sensitivity towards the victim and anyone else affected by sexual abuse". This could be public respect and sensitivity toward people affected by sexual abuse in general, but the fact there was a victim is not established, this is conjecture. I explained why judging people based on pure conjecture can be easily abused.
"most people who are protesting this are doing so because they genuinely believe something wrong happened and want to protect the community"
What 'wrong' could have happened?. If it was a case of a bad relationship, this happens anywhere, and there's no reason to be alarmed or protect anybody.
The only wrong that could merit to protect others from, in this case, is this person being a sexual abuser. And this is, as I said before, never been established as fact.
I believe the spirit of your argument is that this is a political issue (not a justice issue), where it is unwise to put someone unpopular on a position of authority. I could agree with that, but to really know whether he is unpopular, the selection of admins would have to be democratic so there's votes to count, and it isn't.
Everything else was pretty sound though. I understand what you are getting at. But one issue I have is that it's very difficult to prove rape. Unless it was violent, and the victim goes to the police right afterwards (which, if you have ever dealt with PTSD/similar situations you know is not usually something that is possible to happen because of trauma), or there is written intentions of rape ("I want to rape you") - which isn't the case, again, usually it is spontanous with someone that they knew and trusted- it makes it very difficult to prove. So... at this point, for posterity's sake, I would still err on the side of the victim. Usually, someone accused of rape can just move and no one will know, they might deal with some trust issues but- but someone who has been raped can not move away from their memories.
I'm still willing to be convinced of your side though... But at this point, as someone who has been coercively raped (I'm pretty sure the person still would think that they haven't raped me, and it makes me question my own self), and someone who knows in person well MANY other survivors of rape- mostly coercive and non-violent- it is hard to not believe someone when they put out such a report, nor do I want to not believe them, because that can hurt just as much as being raped itself.
But yeah, I am not on a jury right now, trying to arrest someone. Just trying to figure out what to believe.
I will think about it more.
I expect they will be dashed soon enough.
I don't think the images where doctored, but unfortunately it's difficult to say what actually happened due to the amount of purging that FA has done with evidence. An event happened. All parties acknowledge. Coupled with Zaush's terrible reputation, its easy to put some pieces together.
All things to take into account, it's important to take things with a grain of salt, but people must be held accountable or at least properly prove their innocence rather than go on deleting sprees and making journals that don't actually acknowledge the points being brought up.
We will never know the truth, and that is a shame.. and because of that, the drama will continue.
I do agree with most of what you said.
Were the documents doctored? who the hell knows.
In general, yes, I usually do side with a victim, you are correct. But as you said, there isn't much proof on either side, so I am bit leery about either side not changing/hiding/fudging/exaggerating the truth to some small degree.
So many parts of this story ring so badly for me, but I've definitely calmed down enough to think about it more rationally. There are definitely some parts I am skeptical about now, but there's so little that can be said. There was no real investigation done with actual authorities or even renouncing by people who are accusing, that it's so hard to say what's true or not.
Regardless, the way it's being handled by FA is leaving a bad taste in my mouth (and all the other instances of FA's shitty policies with other things are taken into account here too[I've seen people having left due to FA not taking stalking/harassment seriously, people leaving cause of art theft, etc.])
I am erring on the side of caution here at this point and I'm going to abandon ship. Better to be safe than sorry IMO. I apologize if I said anything to have offended you, you seem to be a pretty decent person, and I was pretty upset earlier.
In any case, I'm out, stay safe, etc.
I respect your decision to leave, personally I will be staying. I think I made a Wesyl account, but I doubt I will be doing much if anything with it. I have a hard enough time keeping up one art site, LOL.
Its a shame you are leaving though, it's been nice chatting with you.
I agree, I don't like the way it was handled, but I guess I am too lazy or stubborn to want to start everything over and lose a lot of good friends I've made here.
Good luck in wherever you end up. :)
Except, there is no evidence to prove it happened, just accusations. Is it totally not your concern at all that it could be libel?
my issue is that it even became an issue. of all the coders that exist on furaffinity, neer had to pick one with the most static. with all the 'leaks' it was only a matter of time before it was a firestorm. (: but it has to be THIS guy, and if we don't like it we can get out.
well.. that's what people are doing.
> well.. that's what people are doing.
To be honest, I see more people complaining than leaving. FA online stats haven't decreased at all in any notable way than any other day.
leaving a community is a process, and people are trying to get their friends and anyone else who might have an opinion on it to take a moment to read, think, and switch if they feel it necessary. i didn't touch this stuff until i learned what it was about, and considering how both the community of FA and neer have handled it, it seems beneficial to let this community be its own and move on to a new one.. without people who have stacks of 'accusations but thats all they are guys!!!' against them.
to think someone is COMPLAINING or HATE MONGERING or BEING IMMATURE just because they've decided to leave seems in a sense hypocritical. And I do understand some people are making it a bigger deal than it needs to be, cursing, behaving inappropriately about it, but it can be a very sensitive subject to some people and they will react in whatever way they see fit.
However, I think it's also grossly immature for people to say "o dose drama llamas they will be back in a week!!" and for all we know, they probably won't, because this became a bigger issue than it ever had to be.
Point.
> leaving a community is a process, and people are trying to get their friends and anyone else who might have an opinion on it to take a moment to read, think, and switch if they feel it necessary.
I never really thought about it that way, good point there.
> However, I think it's also grossly immature for people to say "o dose drama llamas they will be back in a week!!"
I agree also with that.
My own thoughts on it is that some users will definitely leave permanently. A few may come back quietly too, but that is of no consequence. I think that those which leave won't reduce the user count by much, because there will be new users to replenish the user count soon after. FA is not stagnant when it comes to getting new users.
i did enjoy reading and responding the comments made by you, and i hope that more users can understand that in order to proceed, we should not divide, but respect the views of those wishing to go, or wishing to see the site (hopefully) make changes and keep true to their promises.
Likewise, I also enjoyed reading and responding to your comments. Thank you for the enlightenment, I really was not expecting to have such a civil conversation.
I noticed it, but I also noticed a lot of artists in my watch list saying they were replicating their galleries there as well, but not moving. Only two stated they were moving.
I don't believe that traffic is symbolic of people actually moving, my anecdotal evidence based off my journal stream leads me to believe it is mostly mirroring traffic and users creating an account "just in case".
And I'm not saying that because of the drama. I'm saying that because FA is 5+ years due for a major update. I've always felt that way, and just sighed, because no one ever goes to better sites. They're lazy. Everyone staying, who isn't an artist who NEEDS to stay, is lazy. They've always been lazy. Every single site that has popped up in the last five years is objectively better than FA.
That being said, I'll withhold my opinion and any accusations, and simply state that you can believe what you want to believe, and I'll do the same. We're both adults, and have the right to have our own opinion and to draw our own conclusions. But, in the end, someone's done work for the site, and I feel as though his qualifications should be grounded in things like "work experience" and "ability to perform the job," not whether or not he has or has not raped, or was accused of such.
...
Until I realized I've been here for years, and this is the same old shit they've been pulling the entire time.
|・'）
|'）
|）
|
I, for one, CARE about the situations here and comments to speak what's on my mind...
I have to agree.
That's kind of a stupid tactic, if anyone is actually doing it.
Sure, it's probably one of the worst ways of getting a random specific FA user to check out your page.
However, it makes that attempt on every currently active FA user.
I just find it funny how many people actually do that though.
but in the best of ways~
I love to act random tho
*guilty sometimes*
Actually it doesn't even work that well. I posted about 8% of the comments in the spam journal (srsly, 250 comments or more, all productive answering people's questions) and only got a few watchers. What annoys me around here is actually the massive circlejerking (I think that's what it's called) that seems to take place. Whine once and move on, or contribute something further. Otherwise keep mass-posting to a helpful positive format, people. :(
You have to post comments on artwork that's similar to yours for that!
Drama journals don't really result in watches, unless people just think you're going to be entertaining.
If a person is going to leave, put a note in your journal and go.
Posting that you are leaving in this thread is just drama-whoring.
But hey, it's furry. What do you expect?
Again, I am sorry, and I really hope we can still be friends, that was just the point I was trying to make, perhaps it was just worded badly in the heat of the moment.
shit have been told! hella good x'D
good.
They always come back.
i'll throw a shitstorm over this
brb posting hate journals and leaving FA forever
brb. leaving FA and posting a journal about how sick I am of bacon allegations
♔
Drop
Everything
And
Freak
Out
~
Are you insinuating something?
brb quitting the internet forever
You've ruined Christmas, Jimmy.
*nibblerimrimrim x3
now now where do I put all this pony gear hm hm >:3
This whole dramafest was annoying to watch since I got an influx of 'LOL I LEAV LE FA BECAUSE BLAH BLAH BLAH DRAMA' journals
And by the old saying: 'Innocent until proven guilty'
so you never know.
i don't know anymore. I'm too tired for le dramaz
Read up on the issue before you accuse it of being something as silly as drama
if you don't take sexual assault seriously stay on this site and never leave
Thank you. lel
I don't care at all about what the fuck FA does with it's website, I just want a community where I know people will protect each other and not let this stuff go by as if it's nothing. This isn't something you cover your ears about, this is something you speak out about. EVERYONE IS AN AGENT OF CHANGE, IF ENOUGH PEOPLE SAY THEIR PIECE AND PERFORM ACTIONS THERE CAN BE SOMETHING DONE
If you fantasize about something, that's awesome! I love that shit! I love weird kinks and fetish and stuff like that, maybe sometimes it's not my thing but who am I to judge.
The moment you bring any of the illegal and morally reprehensible things to reality, however, that is when you are to be judged harshly for your actions.
It's not about the porn, is all I wanna say here. It's about the actual actions performed on an actual person.
the thing that bugs me with the cub porn is they banned it for a while but then unbanned it.
my friend likes pedophilia. and i dont give two shits? because i know its something shed never do in real life; but if she did id be the first to call her out on it...
I will say this though. As a victum of sexual assult myself the prospect of having someone around that has been accused of it is kinda a touchy isue, but the way I look at it is...you can look at 1 in 5 people and they've done something and not been convicted of it. How many people have shoplifted, lied, cheated, stolen, or hurt someone in some way?
I know it's not the same as the sexual assult issues, but in a way it is. No one knows the truth but those involved. I don't care how many times Crevan posts that link and I say this with the utmost respect i can muster...STOP FLOODING THAT LINK seriously if people wanted to read it they would have clicked the first five or so you posted. This isn't me being a bitch. It's me saying that the more you push that down their throats the less likely you are to get people to believe what's written there. It's like the boy who cried wolf.
I enjoy the site and have met a few people who were awesome granted I don't remember names I just met them once and hope to see a few a second time this Saturday but anyway....that's just my rant and $0.02 feel free to ignore me. ;)
/oh and not doing it for watchers.
You are free to say you are fine with the situation, it's you're right, but I won't stop because you asked me nicely, I wont stop because you ask me angrily. Because I believe in something strongly enough to get angry about it. Emotions aren't something that should discredit an argument, I will get angry if someone is hurt and there is no justice, and I will be upset when people turn their backs on their fellow furries.
And you are right in one aspect, you can't know when you look at someone what they have done, but equating someone shoplifting to someone manipulating a young person and committing rape to that you have already created a huge error in judgement. Your logic is faulty when you try to say because I can't tell who has done a whole slew of other crimes, it's okay to look away from the evidence of another crime being committed because it happens. That won't help anything.
Yes again I said in my post (if you are going to accuse people of not reading don't do the same thing) I'm not saying those things are alike in nature, but it's a crime none the less. I've known a guy who lost 10 years of his life because he was accused of raping a 4 year old little girl. The mother pushed so hard and for 10 years accused and pushed her story all over the place. Guess what? It was a lie because the girl cheated on him with the kids father. HE lost 10 years of his life to prison, and the fact HE WAS INNOCENT it is still on his record that he was incarcerated. That is a blotch on his permanent record. He's got issues finding good work, AND he's still a registered sex offender because he spent time in prison for a sex crime. As a female I have strong feelings toward men who force themselves on women, but I also have strong feelings of women who use rape as a joke.
Until the facts come out if they ever do you can't just say this guy is guilty beyond belief and say that's the end of the story.
Let me ask you a serious question? What will you do if this comes out that he did not rape her?
Please read this and just.... realize that you are So. Very. Wrong. about your accusations on women. 97% of rapists DO NOT GET CONVICTED. They do not get sent to jail. They DO NOT SEE JUSTICE FOR THEIR CRIME. Only 40% of rapes that occur are actually reported. Out of those, only 3% get convicted.
Having a personal stake in it means absolutely nothing. Did Martin Luther King Jr have a personal stake in the civil rights movement? Of course he did!!!! Was he any less right???? You are correlating things and saying they make my argument invalid and it doesn't make any sense!!
And also, your story also doesn't make any sense. because are you trying to say that the girl was raped by another man and another man got sentenced for it? Because that is one story that seems so fantastical and out there and also completely irrelevant. You are saying one single anecdotal evidence should clear the table and make your argument a valid one to consider, when really you also do not have any evidence to prove your side of the story? Are you trying to convince me with this story that I should change my tune and start looking at the evidence I was presented harder? Because I have stared at this evidence, stewed on it for days, and have only just now started to speak out against it. This wasn't a sudden surge of energy out of nowhere, it as a slow climb to anger after more people kept coming forward with more and more incriminating evidence against Zaush and Dragoneer's rape apology.
There are facts in the links, screenshots to twitters and actual comments (that got deleted and hidden by moderators on FA to silence the people speaking out) that people where able to screenshot, and the two people accused digging themselves deeper in a hole, but you refuse to actually look at it and see it for what it is.
If Zaush turns out not to have raped this girl (and the others who have shared their story), I would apologize. I have no power over Zaush, I can't award him a medal of "congrats you weren't reprehensible scum of the earth I was wrong" and give him 100$ or something, but Zaush has power as a coder and as a popular artist with people swarming to come to his aid after plenty of people have already called him out on his bullshit. If he is innocent I will eat my scarf.
(Also to note, 1% of all rape accusations are false. It is such a low number it should not even be used as actual evidence in this argument)
Also do you know FOR CERTAIN that those posts and screenshots are real?
MLK had a personal stake in what he did as did the women woo suffered for women rights. that doesn't change what I said.. You have no personal stake in this yet you are on your soap box pushing and pushing yet you don't know the whole story.
People keep saying they are leaving the site because of this yet they are still posting on this conversation.
Is no one allowed to say hey we will stay here till we know the truth. No because you are tellling them they are wrong and stupid for not going along with you no matter what.
Even if the stastistics are real, this is still not an evidence. People claiming rape while it's not true do exist TOO, it happened to a friend at a con a few years ago.
Not saying this girl is lying or anything, she probably genuinely felt like she was forced and as she said "she didn't dare to". Sometimes you don't really want something but you don't dare to say no on the moment, because that person has been nice with you, because you're not really sure but you'll do it anyway... There can be a lot of reasons we know nothing about (John Snow!)
And probably Zaush thought it was okay, maybe he didn't really care enough to make sure it was really okay and maybe he was a jerk but spreading the word everywhere that he's a rapist because of that, because NOBODY of us know the truth is truly disgusting.
You don't know the truth, nobody does, so please stop spamming a link that might contain lies and that will just make more drama, enough is enough.
WHY ITS NOT SUPPORTED by the source they cite:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fdluc02.pdf page 6 under sentencing says (and i should point out that for some interesting reason the rainn site that created this figure does not actually cite the page of their source, which is a pretty big red flag when doing any type of research that they dont want people fact checking.)
"A large majority of robbery (73%) and rape (64%) convictions also resulted in prison sentences. Nearly all
convicted defendants who did not receive an incarceration sentence were placed on probation."
so this means that there is a 61% discrepancy in the figure you and rainn cite from the source that rainn it self uses; 64% or convicted rapists spent time in jail or prison and "nearly all" of the others that did not were placed on probation, as opposed to the only "3% of all rapists receive punishment" that Rainn cites. http://www.rainn.org/news-room/97-o.....-no-punishment
They are some how subtracting the unreported rapes from this figure, but how they got that figure or exactly how they are doing their math is never explained and the report from the BJS as far as i can tell never mentions a 3% figure. If you can find something i missed please let me know though.
Also I should point out you are not even citing THEIR claims correctly, they claim "Factoring in unreported rapes, only about 3% of rapists will ever serve a day in prison"
(http://www.rainn.org/get-informatio.....eporting-rates)
while you claim only "3% are ever convicted", which is not the same thing as what rainn is saying, nor supported by the citation they give. Im not attacking you here, please understand, only pointing out you really need to fact check the things you say before you get so emotionally charged about them.
You also wonder where the 3% figure is in the single source you cited, but there are 4 relevant sources in total being cited by RAINN. The 3% is the logical result of combining all four.
The oddest thing about your comment is that you then go on to berate the OP for failing to distinguish between convictions and prison-sentences, when you started off by confusing the exact same apples and oranges in order to do some extremely unjustified math. Perhaps an apology is in order.
According to the fbi databases the number of false allegations are 8 percent, which is a pretty high number.
Yes, it's unsafe because many people don't know what's going on or if it's a rumor or not.
Some of us have only decided to stay because... how do I put this... we don't care. We're only here cuz what
good friends, showing off our art, giving away stuff, making business, getting known, you know the basic networking.
Like I said in the other journal people should just mind their own business. The admins and us have their own little secrets
as we do.
I'm not raging, flaming, or whatever it's my own opinion and mainly a good reason why most of us decided to stay.
And this is not something as simple as "mind your own business", this is a community, and wether you like it or not you are all intertwined with each other and each other's actions. If you decide that you don't want someone as reprehensible as a rapist in your community, there is a variety of things you can do, one of them being to ask for said rapist to be taken off of the staff, especially when coding means they have a whole slew of information at their fingertips (something I am very uncomfortable with might I add).
You are free to stay, just know that as a community you are liable for each other's actions.
Did anyone on the site tell you that he is actually on staff, no? Ok he's not on staff, he is volunteering to help out with the Project nothing more nothing less. I don't feel like we have nothing to do with each other. Each person has their own thoughts and actions. That's why you are leaving and I am staying and yet we are still in the same furry community. Not FA, just furry. If one person decides to have a rapist on staff, then I have no right to say anything. It's none of my concern I'm here to meet people and draw nothing more.
What the staff want to do they could do it. I have no rights I just follow the rules on the site. Sure some may seem out of hand more than others but whatever as long as I'm following the artist rule and talking with people I don't care. This whole rape issue has nothing to do with me nor my art.
If it's information they want they would've stolen maybe killed maybe idk fucked us over already. I don't care because my address is not important my number, e-mail, or fb is not important I don't care. If someone decides to call in and come over to my place during the middle of the night ok sure come in I'll be awake waiting for your ass to be slaughtered and call it defense, whether or not the cops decide to do something about knowing all the Leaks that there have been of abusive, murdering cops. That's another thing. You can't turn to anyone these days because either way wherever you go you're going to get fucked in the ass by life.
*shrug*
that's all I'm saying I'm heading to bed.
Goodnight world.
if you can live your life without speaking out about something and prefer it that way, it is your right, I can't make you run a marathon if you want to walk.
You are free to live in ignorance, as is your right, but you also don't get to sit there and call what I say bitching when I'm shoving textbook definitions of rape in your face.
and digging up past events that have no relevance to making a new site.
this pretty much sums up how i feel about this http://www.furaffinity.net/view/12554286
I am upset because I want the communities I participate in to be places I feel safe in, and this is just showing more what a terrible idea it was for me to think that.
And saying 'fuck the haters' just shows how trivial you see something so serious as and there is no swaying your thoughts. I just hope you are never put in a position where this community will turn it's back on you after you need it's support.
I can understand if he actually did something, but when i hear different stories, then my conclusion is not to care anymore; it's not any of my business.
I can understand if you want to leave if it's personal, but to me, there's too much vagueness in this story to say he's a rapist. Which is why i'm sick of hearing it and why i don't care anymore.
So if you wish to leave, by all means do so.
I'm not going to discuss this further because i don;t see the correlation.
It's an issue now because Zaush was recently put in a position of authority on this site. It wouldn't be this big of a problem otherwise.
someone assumed he was staff and poeple were blocked/banned from saying it because the STAFF found the topic against code of conduct.
This is what happends when people do not get their facts straight and assume and start flipping out like drama llamas. Enough is enough and drop it; this rape business, whether is true or not (i don't think it is at this point), is not one we can control, so drop it.
And you do make a valid argument. Still, i've decided not to leave; i don't see how that resolves anything of a situation i cannot control.
I believe the main problem is the terrible way that Dragoneer and Zaush acted in response on their twitter accounts.
If he actaully did it (what he was accused of), would you think the other party have allowed this whole fiasco to happen? i'm pretty sure she'd be pissed off at how we're handling this and react to it, seeing as this was something that happened 3-4 years ago.
This is a matter of something that no one here has any control over; it feels rather pointless to try and discuss it further.
This is also my last comment on the issue.
Most rapists are not convicted.
I'm not going to respond more to this subject after this comment.
I just feel like ever since this started, people felt the need to control a situation that was WAY out of their league.
THANK YOU!
Eat shit, fuck off, die in a fire, and I hope that Satan pisses on your ashes.
Wow you're so morally superior. Not. You're a piece of shit.
this was the first thing to make me lol on this whooooole comment thread thing. hahaha XDDD
You've read an account of what happened that was posted by someone else, not the girl herself. This is third and fourth hand information that could have been rewritten and edited...who knows
And if you did read it...
How is it rape if she knew he wanted sex and then she travelled 3 hours to go have it.....That sounds like consent to me. She had a choice. She had the entire journey to change her mind and turn around. According to the link you posted, she gave Zaush consent...and a year later she changes her mind.
Rape is a terrible and horrible thing that no one should have to go through. Yet too many people use it as an excuse to justify their choices and that is just as bad.
No Sir....what you have posted is not proof. What you have posted is something that is just on the internet for the purpose of drama.
Plus, didn't she ask for that note to be private anyways?
So it's not a matter of the note being private or not; the note could be seen by all admins, and the note was one of the ones that got leaked out when the site got hit.
It's perfectly okay for people to think that this isn't enough evidence for them to go on, just like it's perfectly okay for them to feel like it is.
Stop trying to force your views down everyone's throat. Whether or not I agree with you or not.
Both sides should be allowed their own opinion without the other side going "NU UH!! IT'S THIS WAY" or "You're a fucking moron for thinking this way."
I'm so tired of everyone on both sides of the fence it's not even funny. People have forgotten how to let other people have their right to an opinion and if they're not comfortable, or if they are, that's THEIR perrogative.
Stop posting this link to every friggen person that wants to stay. They've got about as much information about the situation as you do and have formed their own opinion already.
God forbid people let their friends and watchers know that they're switching art sites and why.
FA is an incredibly turbulent and unreliable art site. Have fun with it!
The Great Furry Migration has begun!!!
REBEL!!!
No One Wants To Be Defeated
Showin' How Funky Strong Is Your Fight
It Doesn't Matter Who's Wrong Or Right
Just Beat It, Beat It, Beat It, Beat It, Beat It
at this rate, you'll have the knowledge to make the next FurAffinity!
ever wonder what's inside. Lets just say its a sponge.
YOU MIGHT BE GOING OFF THE DEEP END THERE
RIGHT INTO THE POOL OF ABSOLUTELY CORRECT
Rules are rules are rules are rules. And above all that is the discretion of the site in the first place, especially when people insist on turning those rules on their head and abusing the letter of the word.
TLDR: have fun leaving. don't let the door hit ya ass on the way out. and stop condeming people with out reason and proof. and if at all remember the golden rule (do unto others as you have them do unto you).
Secondly, it's too late for them to claim neutrality. By purging comments critical of him, trying to bury the allegations, and trying to pressure the victim to not come forward they have already taken his side.
And yes, I know about the ToS argument, but FA's rules have always been enforced very selectively in order to help friends of Dragoneer. It's a public site but he runs it as if it's his private club; he needs to decide which he wants.
Libellous claims about 'rape'.
Besides, let's say he sued and won. What's he going to do? Collect back pay on his $0 salary?
"Creepy dudebro" is not a class of people legally protected from discrimination.
It may have issues but totally agree it's still home!(for art at least XD)
I've made to many friends here D:
Thank you~
"Good luck"
:D
Ain't life fun? lol
Lets see how well this all plays out.
You already lost TONS of people to Weasyl, its only a matter of time before we ALL move over.
Weasyl is better.
Hands down.
the end.
They'll be back within a month.
thats why i have almost 200 new watchers on Weasyl in the last 48 hours.
-holds out paws-
You're reading what you want to read between the lines.
wanna still sob story me? welcome to the internet, where everyone elses story is worse then your own. "
If this doesn't show how much of an ass he is to prior victims. then lord Raptor Jebus help you
Not trying to take sides but if you're gonna bash at least be able to back it up cause
138 is not 200
I went there, around the block, and back!
FUCKING EPIC.
That wins this whole fucking thread.
a] zaush is fired
or
b] the site ACTUALLY updates, then ill come back.
For now, im keeping an eye on things.
Anyway,
I can say the same thing about YOU. Were you there the "day" you think Zaush committed an illegal action against someone else? Of course not. The whole thing was overblown and it was spread out over a longer period of time. Now, I may not know exactly what happened, but I failed to ever find any evidence of any illegal activity. And please tell me why you think it's not libel to spread misinformation about someone?
also your icon gives no fucks xD
Also, cat tech support is best tech support, Try chasing the little red light.
Calm down.
Chill.
Relax.
Breathe.
Take a break.
Unwind.
Loosen up.
Settle down.
Oh wait no that was that cat-girl from Food Fight.
Mebby I'll check out the comic later. It seems tame and sensible enough. I'll also share with the artist of my icon. I don't quite see it but I think they'd appreciate being compared to it. ^_^
Though, if anything, it's better art than one would come across on Twokinds.
I-I
What?
how dare i be mean on the interwebs?
at least i didnt, oh i dont know. sexually assault someone.
i had someone cut up so bad and mugged at knife point, then watched his wife get raped.
a friend of mine was raped in a mental institute.
wanna still sob story me?
welcome to the internet, where everyone elses story is worse then your own.
And just cause something bad happened to him dosnt mean every experience is the same.
except it's super rare for a male to be sexually assaulted in the real world and the chances of them coming forth with it is rare in today's man ruled society, and you brushed it off like it was nothing when you responded
"And just cause something bad happened to him dosnt mean every experience is the same. "
I'm pretty sure my experience through that ordeal was the same as when a male rapes a female, only this time it was to try and "cure me" when things didn't go her way with the relationship
good job dude
when people play the 'pitty me' card i just get pissy. its not fair to the people who CANT talk out when they have had something happen.
but hey, thats just me, i know im mean~
Sorry i had to get that out.
BUT SHOW ME YOUR LOVE! ;u;
I want it all~ I want it all~
dude, this site could really use some love.
Seriously been seeing too much downers here over all this nonsense.
LETS GIVE ALL THE LOVES! :D
im gonna write a valentine to all 50,000 people on this site xD gonna be like xmas in february lmao xDD
or HORRENDOUSLY painful
Because all I want for Christmas, is YOOUUU!~~
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?.....ages_video_set
LOVE.
YOU WILL HAVE IT!
AND YOU WILL LOVE IT! xD
And love is, a real life porn ... Minus all the stuff that makes porn cool.
And love is, a homeless guy ... Searchin' for treasure in the middle of the rain and finding a bag of gold coins and slowly finding out they're all filled with chocolate and even though he's heartbroken he can't complain cuz he was hungry in the first place.
cant leave out tacos <3
;D
Only bacon.
MOAR BACON.
......maybe some popcorn.
I mean... Bacon flavored popcorn!
(Sorry I couldn't resist XD )
I'm sorry if I look stupid for that, but I just don't want to leave.
I hope stuff happens that are positive and whatever.
Much like everything else, I'll believe it when I see it.
Nice staff, FA.
Most people I know from the site know it's not even worth it to report things--including severe harassment.
The sad thing is that every time they 'get new/more staff to handle the ticket load' it never seems to pan out, then all the admins are mysteriously gone and it's back to months of waiting.
I stopped being hopeful a couple years ago.
It still has any pictures you uploaded up, though they will only be able to be seen if searched for.
Yes, it is possible to reactivate, I have done it with an old account, and your everything seems to remain untouched. ^ ^
Sorry, not an admin or anything, just someone who knew the answer, aha.
I don't see the point in deactivation if it doesnt remove anything, you know?
But thats just me.
Yes I'm aware of WayBack machine and other tactics, but if I can delete all my images on here from general public view (including search) that'd be awesome. Right now the only way seems to be to manually delete each one.
I have asked this of the admins many many times. =<
I'm not entirely sure about it though, you'll have to look into that. ^ ^
Sometimes your stuff goes with you, sometimes not =<
Best of luck to you though. ^ ^
Its how I do it >.>
As far as I know (since I am not an admin, nor have I tried deactivating it) yes, you can reactivate at a later time.
Thanks for everyone attempting to answer, though. 2014 Year of Transparency off to a great start. :(
Aaand that's not how you run a site. If enough users are uncomfortable/upset enough to be leaving, then you DO something about it. It doesn't matter if/what he did, honestly. What MATTERS is how a large amount of your userbase feels. If they don't want him on staff, don't have him on staff. Saying you're going to do nothing because there's no police evidence is bullshit (especially considering what this is about). Think of the feelings of your userbase for once.
>large amount
A vocal minority is not a large amount.
i dont beleive a damn thing this staff says. -nods-
and ima bitch
i dont keep my mouth shut. plain and simple.
Which does that make you: a coward, or just a loudmouthed hypocrite?
We're done talking. Take the last word if you want it.
But everyone i know knows that ;3
also, why hide your last comment if you were just gonna come back and bash me again? Seems counter productive~
but whatevers
#lastword
Just say nothing. At all.
I don't do that often, but that's why I have done it a few times tonight.
they're simply stating a fact regarding something that is part of the update lmao
When you say a "Criminal Record" you mean being convicted by a Court of Law or having a Real Life history with the Justice System? Or do you mean a "Criminal Record" as in "Bullshit that's been flying around the Web?" Please clarify that one. If it's the later I'll say "Uncool FA"
God knows all those arrest for internet bullying could happen here as well. I mean I remember seeing and hearing about people killing themselves for treatment from the certain groups of folks here.
>u< seriously there are so many things that could be reported and shit.
dragoneer owns the site, he can put whoever he wants on staff and he doesn't even have to give a reason for it. he chooses to but ultimately he doesn't have to. whatever he decides to do in regards to the site is what will be done.
See, you can tell me to "go elsewhere" and to stay neutral. In fact, I rather am, minus that I have disdain for the fact there are people who have actually done rather hideous things. Lemme see if I can try to explain my point of view...
2 People.
Both have committed the same crime, not necessarily on the same day, month, year, or time.
Both committed the crime off this site, possibly on another website or off the internet.
One is a friend of a person of power over something.
The other is a little-known viewer/user of whatever that person of power owns/runs.
The friend gets let off with a wrist slap, while the little-known fella gets booted from a place that preaches neutrality to off-site practices.
Note, while Aspenbear and I were bantering, he did mention Zaush. Of course, my following comment would lead you to believe that maybe I accuse Zaush of having some sort of criminal record. As I have seen thus far with no further proof, he does not have a record of any sort other than apparently being a rather unsavory fellow. Not that I can condemn a person for such a thing, but it is also hearsay. I can read and read and read, but unless I was there, I could not honestly say the girl lied, or Zaush lied. Perhaps I am biased, in that I have had rather unsavory things happen to me, but I believe that possibly removing Zaush from being (what appears to be Head) coder for the new site would quell some anger, angst, fears, etc of the general population.
What may have been missed in my response was that I agree with the fact I can't necessarily trust anything the staff says here, just as well as I cannot trust what User-A says over what User-X says. With THAT fact, it also may be duly noted that you don't have to trust me or believe a word I am saying to you now.
TL;DR?? (hopefully it was read...)
I am not accusing anyone but the staff of anything other than having what appear to be Double Standards.
I am stating that it is not fair for one party to be removed for one offense while the other party gets to stay even though they committed the same offense.
I don't always believe everything I read.
First paragraph, after "innocent little angel", should read "I am referring to the fact that there are known violators and violations that have been off-site----"
The first way did make it seem like "Only Zaush has known violations" or something to that effect. Apologies.
With Regards to Zaush? I cannot say much, for I have not reached a conclusion yet.
For FA staff? They should be lucky FA even exists at this rate considering the laughable incompetence in regards to Public relations and the handling of the site functions and code.
So far as I've seen, very few people I watch who said they're leaving... have actually left. Like they're still posting artwork here.
Only about 2 I've seen actually have deactivated their profiles and moved on.
Public Relations require a lot of care in almost any setting. It's not something that's easy to just tackle as soon as it happens. Bad things result from kneejerk-PR.
Things were said and done by all sides instead of a nicely put journal like this, I know it takes time to do things such as this but the bad PR happened anyhow so now this journal just seems a bit like oops, we effed up. That is just my opinion though.
I guess I just don't tend to get swept up in these waves of panic and drama. Call me too forgiving, but we're all human (I assume).
And *even if* the initial PR effort had gone better, there would still be tons of people moaning and groaning about anything and everything they can think of (And leaving, but not REALLY leaving because they still want to comment here, haha :P).
But this is par for the course, as usual.
I'm interested in seeing a better functioning site, but this really isn't helping anyone.
Whether that still falls under libel or not, I'm no lawyer so fucked if i know.
However, it's as important not to say definitively 'he didn't' as it is to say 'he did.' What if it somehow(and this is just for the sake of argument) comes out that there's clear evidence he actually did it? You'd feel like a jackass having said he didn't, right? Just as anyone saying he definitely did would feel like a jackass if it came out that the claims were provably false.
Doesn't mean I'm gonna go and hide my comments and pretend nothing happened.
I didn't say you should hide anything though, just that you'd probably feel like a jerk if evidence did surface and you went around claiming the opposite as truth.
Also i have failed to check dates, and didn't realize your comment was already two days old. Whoops. :U
It's just a game of wait and see now.
OH MY GOD!
I MADE A POINT!
GLORIOUS DAY!
And Fuck Dr. Phil!
:P
No, I love you, beat me harder!
The rest just wanted to share a bit of their minds before leaving. A few are here just to wallow in the drama.
And there are some who had a glint of hope for things changing... I think this journal was the nail in that hope's coffin.
Re-watching everyone at Weasyl isn't the problem (as long as they link to their Weasyl in a journal or profile at their FA). Dealing with the burst of submissions by watched's in your inbox is it.
^^this^^
I've been trying to pinpoint why all this drama is getting to me (I'm usually tolerant of most drama)... but that's the world I was looking for; uncomfortable.
(EMPHASIS ON POTENTIAL, MODS, since I know you're watching comments.)
If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.
Seriously, I couldn't agree more with ya on this.
At this point, the third party drama over it's gotten so much worse than what might have happened years back >.<
Also, another large portion of comments really and truly don't understand what it's like to be in charge of a big project and wrangle the masses. No matter what you do, someone will be unhappy. No matter what you say, someone will spit on it. They do what they must because they can, for the good of all of us, except the ones who are
deadleaving-in-a-fit-of-drama. ;PI'll let you know if that number starts going down.
Also, it's still going up. D: 150580 messages ( 98086S, 6415C, 39060J, 6051F, 956W, 7N, 5TT )
Good to have official confirmation!
Also, it's sad to see so many leaving FA after these current string of events :I
Hope that all the recent drama blows over and wish those who are leaving the best of luck.
So TL&DR
Trouble Tickets will be answered quicker, still totally depending on the moderators opinion. So at least you have to wait less long until they say it is fine/ no violation.
We do try to make the site better, we failed multiple times already but hey, community somehow believes us lol.
We are not concerned by the uproar out of the society and rather pick our staff so every flame war has enough fuel to burn the whole site down.
No one has access to private user information, except hackers who really want to. Only happened a dozen times before so, all data is safe.
Old Projects, yeah we failed a lot, sadly the internet really doesn't forget... damn and we thought we'd be safe.
Final Note:
Innocent until proven guilty is not very true, doubt until acquitted is more like it.
Wanna know how many rape victims never go to the police because of said success rate.
Additional Mockery, Disbelief, Ignorance and Carelessness ( plus sometimes if e.g. a condom was used there might not even be proof)
I guess acquittal for all?
Then why fuel the flame war? Just drop him, if someone is charged with something then acquitted and has / had a representative position in a company or sports club it is time to say goodbye anyhow
But I bet you if he did that and he was proven innocent, people would still throw fits about it, calling him an ass for going that far.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Repeated site downtime. Offensive twitter replies when "handling" this situation. Empty promises of site features. Slow/nonexistent ticket response time. Refusals to offers of more secure hosting or programming work from community members. Etc. (admittedly a handful of this is hearsay)
The guy owns the site. If the dude at the register at Starbucks tells me 2 weeks in a row that they're out of caramel flavor, I'm not going to blame him. I'm going to blame the owner of the franchise and perhaps the larger company.
Not saying Zaush is innocent/guilty/I dunno, the point is we're kids on the Internet, not a court of law. He seems like an ass in his own right and as someone else pointed out that if enough of the community is uncomfortable with this guy (as they've overwhelmingly made clear), then keeping him on board is at the least a bad business move (again, blame Dragoneer).
(◡‿◡✿)
(ʘ‿ʘ✿)
u sayin all girls have to have vaginas??? and all men have to have penises??
u sayin that if a guy had a vagina you would discriminate him? because you hate vaginas?
or are you afraid of them?
lol
however, its highly offensive for you to use the term transgendered. it is not a disease. it is a gender.
what do you mean you dont deal in absolutes? are you really so biased to say that you hate and are terrified of anyone who has a vagina or, rather, anyone who doesnt have a penis? ah no, forgive me; because youre a scientist then its ok for you to be bigoted. just like how police officers can be racist!!
you see; i am transgender and theres a LOT of common terms that can be seen as offensive to people who identfy as trans*. transgendered is one of them. i apologize again for coming off as rude, that triggered me a lot to hear that. also friend, the high horse has already been put in the stable you see. i know why im upset and i know that its justified. so if were gonna say directions here; how about you go check all the evidence thats actually there, with victims talking about it, and also fa's cover up? maybe youll learn a couple of things there bud.
someone here posted a link talking about the information; and the only things i can confirm that ive witnessed is that FA has made numerous attempts to redo the site but never followed through, and that the staff thinks zaush is a good guy even though hes assaulted other people. and when people tried to talk about the assault then they got banned or hidden. ill try and find one of the links explaining more if youd like!
Good thing then, that things in the real world... you know that place that suddenly comes into focus when you switch off that strange, beeping machine in front of you, don't work like that. :)
2nd bit: About [Your deity here(Or your favorite food if you don't like any god(s))] dame time!
3ed bit: Thank you for telling us. Was it really that hard? As for the last part of that: http://www.jadaliyya.com/content_im.....mages/mask.jpg
4th bit: You don't say...
5th bit: What ever.
6th: So what?
GG FurAffinity.
Bye.
also dat icon
Feature X - Assigned Developer ctrlaltdel123
Notes on progress and development such as amount completed and interesting information.
Then if something like that was in place you could link it maybe at the bottom of the website and in the header/footer of Fender journals. People get a regular update and can provide feed back as well as developers/administration having an official place to direct inquires.
Others ways popufurs might get butthurt.
Your first point of action for any unwanted contact should always be to add the user to your block list. If you believe their conduct violates site policy you're free to report it, but the block tool is always the most helpful first step in preventing contact with an individual.
Good to know, my legal knowledge really flourishes on this site.
Sorry, that's the first thing that popped in my head when I read that. Other than that, hopefully mods/admin will be able to get through those tickets faster, since the longer it takes, the more work there is to do. :x
Why wait for this site's empty promises?
Hell if doesn't have to be weasyl. I'd support sofurry being the top furry art site over FA.
Toumal is an excellent lead admin. He admits when his staff fucks up, and he makes an effort to fix any fuckups promptly. That alone is a reason to join SoFurry.
Sorry, if some well-meaning douches shied you away from the idea by shaming you for remaining on FA. They're not helping their own cause.
No, no, no!!!! Don't ask silly questions next time, Silver One! Instead do, as most dragons would! Reply with some wise dragon sh*t, like:
"Above the clouds, where the rainbow's colour die, there you'll find a growing darkness, and it's echoing voice will shatter the mortal hearts, so as the Eons pass, everyone will know the true blessing of the coming calmness of the collective minds, which will last until a the last phoenix dies it's final death."
And while they try to figure it out...you clobber them hard in the head with your forelegs, for trying to be smart!
Fuck up as they may, they always at least TRY. And as long as they keep trying, I'll keep logging in.
basically the same promises we've seen in the past?
not to mention the fact that the outside coders tried to get in contact with the staff...or are we just ignoring that part of the story?
cuz i'm all about ignoring key parts of history and all.
Problems solved
Granted, having been a moderator elsewhere for years, I understand the problems with attrition and all, but these hiring drives, done in bulk but every other few months, is not really being an effective as measure as possible. There's training to consider, yes, but the hiring process, the vetting process, the training process...when it starts taking a quarter of the year or more and there's no visible headway made on people being chosen, introduced to the community, or problems being handled...it doesn't set a good precedent.
Just my two cents.
Here's hoping that the next search goes a bit better, though. If I might make a suggest, please do try and keep it as transparent a process as possible. That term has become such a political buzzword and colloquial buzzword as of late that it's almost a joke (not solely here on FA, of course, but at large). If and when people are picked, introduce them to the community, try and show everyone where they are coming from and who they are, so there's less of a "...well, who's this person and why did they get removed / deleted / suspended / banned by whatshisface...?"
Granted, I know a lot of the problems stem from the outdated code, and even looking at it from a moderating standpoint I can easily see where, if I was in their shoes, I'd be walking on fiery coals with what the code is capable of (removing a post leads to "censorship!", removing it but responding to the now-missing message can be construed as "censorship AND rubbing it in!", etc).
Anyway, best of luck on the revamp, at least. Just some food for thought in the interim.
By the way, will some aspects of the old (current) site code (color scheme(s), fonts, etc) be retained?
But lol, whatever FA.
okay
really hope that pretending to be right is worth your self-respect and the slow death of your increasingly shitty website, you've sure as hell earned it you goddamn shitlamps
I think I just might.
This truly is the best comment I have ever seen
Thank you, googly-eyed sir.
I can't stop laughing.
ROOOOOOOOFL!!!!!!!!
That's why people are nuked off the site with their shit deleted when they say anything negative (and truthful), right?
Don't worry FA goers. Nothing's gonna change. xD
Seen FA in some real issues time and time again and I've never left the site.
While I feel FA could use some "Fixes" here and there. I can only sit and watch as the site seems to actually hit a wall this time.
Yea it was none of our business, but It's out there, we know it happened. And those who have been personally affected in the past wont feel comfortable about it....
But I mean, if Z gets the job done then, damn let him do his shit. I won't leave FA. I respect those who left for their reasons.
But so long as FA provides some great use, I can't see a reason to leave.
Follow the rules and stay quite. Mind your business and all will be well I suppose.
Do you happen to have a psychopathic friend or so? I mean would fit the staff well, of course only if he is productive.
He's great at organizing, but in his spare time he likes to pop peoples ribs.
Just ignore that part and all is well.
Like you said, just need a big enough rug to sweep them under.
except animal abusers right?
Banhammer will come, banhammer will silence.
is this... the birth of... a new cosmos?
jk I love you rasin girl
About Project Phoenix...Will all our art and scraps be transferred successfully, or will we all have to re-upload everything from scratch?
Which you won't.
Because incompetence and working on live cables and all that shit.
Do me a favour and add some magnolia to that paint can, will you?
Of course it is. Assuming you had anybody competent working on your team it'd be a cinch. But you don't, so it's not, and you can't.
Very strange indeed....
And I'll say this in response. You said you didn't want to air it out. Yet, you said publicly you quit. That's hardly not ' Airing it out '. That's more like ' HAVE SOME OF MY DIRTY LAUNDRY, I'LL KEEP THE REST '.
And I said I stepped down. I didn't state why. There's lots of reasons people step down from things. I also happen to have a very busy life outside of the internet. :P If correcting a misconception that I'm still doing PR for FA is giving people some of my dirty laundry, then it's a necessity in order to correct misinformation.
It'd be a wise idea to do so!
I laugh. *highfive*
Every single one was deleted or hidden by its owner. Not site staff.
See watch: Dragoneer ate my baby! *grabs a bag of popcorn and waits*
no disrespect intended, but if that's the case then why must it looks like another Metro/Timeline/Instagram clone?
I've grown quite attached to the simplicity of FA. I don't want shiny buttons everywhere and confusing navigation. DA is absolutely hideous in comparison to this place. I prefer very light sites without fluff.
one thing I found about web designs, is that CSS can only do so much. some round edges and such are ok, but go overboard and it becomes an eyesore. and heaven forbid extremely bright or over-animated interfaces(i.e. every button flashes, drop downs slide up and down repeatedly when you try to move the cursor).
balance is key
Nope, if everyone moves over, FA *whatever version it is now*
Thanks for the update!
Your absolute inability to comprehend that this goes beyond allegations and is symptomatic of everything wrong with how you administer this site would be shocking if this weren't par for the course.
The individual in question doesn't have any attributes that so specially benefit the FurAffinity revamp that it justifies the colossal PR disaster this has engendered. Not only has it reminded everyone of what you said in leaked notes and how you counseled someone to keep quiet before accusing a popular artist, you decided to rub the community's face in it by announcing them as an integral part of a huge project.
At this point, even if you insist in discounting the accusations made against this person, you are disregarding the indignation felt by a large part of your userbase. That speaks to a lack of respect and a lack of understanding of what your users want and how to move forward by at least acknowledging that having a person with that kind of baggage is not conducive to making this a welcoming community.
The more you try to ignore this reality and hide behind the argument that because an arrest was never made, everything is hunky dory, the more you alienate the people who give a damn about what kind of staff are running this site.
Even if the accusations are wrong ( given his background, not so likely ) he still has baggage with cub porn and otters (who of course are not cub, really guy, staff approved seal on it so why bother )
How mad he got, how insulting and how nothing happened to him.
Popufurs, are another caste. The untouchable
ˈlībəl/Submit
noun
1.
LAW
a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.
Just because something has no "proof" does not automatically make it false and, therefore, libel.
Stop using that word just to make yourself sound smart, "devil's advocate", and come up with an actual argument.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5434971/
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5423517/
And again: If the victim was simply trying to make Zaush look bad, logic dictates they would have made a big deal out of it. Gone public or something. But they didn't. They admitted it in private to an admin.
This is something that :
1: has NOTHING to do with his ability to help improve the site
2: was in the past and is being dredged up again
3: is not even clear what happened and is not relevant to 99.9999% of the people here on FA.
1. Who cares. The site isn't going to be improved, anyways. It wasn't when Ferrox was a thing. Or when 2.0 was announced. Giving it a fancy new name isn't going to make magic happen, especially since the lead coder on board is incompetent as frick, current drama aside.
2. Because things that are in the past don't matter anymore..? Tell that to any victim, I fucking dare you.
3. It is relevant to users, because of the lead admin's abhorrent, shitty attitude about the whole thing. Some users, myself included, are uncomfortable continuing usage of a site run by someone with such a harmful, uneducated view of rape and sexual assault. inb4 "then why are you still here!!!" I'm still here to discuss the matter at hand because it is important.
I stuck around to see if 'Neer and friends were going to own up to their mistakes and try to fix things, but it's not abundantly clear that that's not happening.
Have a good evening!
2. I NEVER said that it didn't matter any more, what I said was that whatever this was, it was in the past and therefore goes back to the first point of having no relevance to his competency to help work on the site.
3. Again, this has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the person did anything wrong, and the admins are taking the stance of innocent until proven guilty, which I can understand.
You're not playing devil's advocate. You're sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending that a good chunk of this site's most talented members aren't leaving because they believe FurAffinity's staff are bad people who consort with bad people.
And truth has always been accepted as a perfect legal defense in libel cases.
Not to mention, the way FurAffinity promotes trolls to moderators on the FurAffinity Forums, and are perfectly content with having their forums so toxic that it's an open secret that most site users refuse to use their own forums.
It looks like the people replying to your comment negatively lack the reading comprehension not quite developed to understand that you were talking about the OTHER things ASIDE the allegations. I believe a great portion of those who are capable of understanding the grist of your comment are no longer here.
What some people fail to understand that the anger many people have is a cumulative effect of mismanagement. You have one more follower on Weasyl.
But I need it, I make ALL kinds of art and wish to organize it. Otherwise i'm stuck with rarely submitting any art.
Email: no-reply[at]furaffinity.net
Subject: Notifications!
Message: {Username} has created a new submission/journal/post [Link to Post]
or
Email: no-reply[at]furaffinity.net
Subject: Notifications!
Message: You've received a new note from {Username}
in my gmail inbox, but keep in mind if you do add such a feature, you'll need a way for people to opt out of it
You should already have our Email addresses within your system as they were used for account activation in the first place
an option to enable Email notifications, again, as I said, would be simply lovely, perfect even!
It's terrible >.< I thought about submitting a "Trouble Ticket" but so far there's never been any real clarification to me exactly as WHAT that is and where to submit one to...not to mention according to this journal post here it doesn't look like it would've gotten me anywhere anyway.
But even though I haven't been able to submit anything and months, I've remained loyal to FA...I'm honestly considering joining SoFurry at this rate...not that I would leave FA, heavens no, FA would still be my homepage and stuff...but I mean I can't upload anything here...it just makes me sad ya know? I have friends here and I won't leave them behind though!
You just...Don't...Care, do you?
Oh wait, that's sarcasm.
Umm.. that is a real solid argument there.
You said this so much better than I have been able to in all the people I responded to.
Thank you.
staying out of the argument, just saying - your comments have been particularly dumb.
actually yes you can
Because they already do this shit all the time.
a) artists who do not deliver commissioned artwork on a timely basis and use FA as a vehicle for advertising their waresb) commissioners who are abusive towards artists or don't pay up
c) length of time of suspensions due to these infractions and a process for getting them relieved
d) a way for clients and artists to interact with each other in some way on-site should such a ban occur
I was under the impression that what happens off-site is out of bounds, but apparently I was wrong.
A friend of mine was banned because she was late on delivering her commissions due to iRL difficulties (I still vehemently disagree with the way it was handled by the staff)
And even now after completing a majority of them, she's still suspended.
Your site, your rules, but please be absolutely clear as to what the rules are.
Oy.
While I do not know of the instance you speak of, Falvie was in a similar situation and has since been unbanned and is caught up with commissions.
To meter behavior and subject it to zero-tollerance 'clear cut' rules, we develop a system that is rife with abuse. Each case must be handled both objectively and subjectively for proper decisions to be reached. If your friend succceeds in fully catching up, then there will likely no longer be any issue. No, the real issue is with artists I see who take on endless numbers of commissions despite already having a backlog. Repeatedly.
Can you imagine trying to police the following?:
All commissions taken publicly must be tracked publicly.
An artist may not take more than 10 commissions publicly at any one time.
An artist may not take more than 2 months on any commission or that artist will have their page suspended until all public commissions are completed.
It's just unreasonable sounding. Everyone is different. Some people are genuinely taking advantage of others. Some people are genuinely just flat out bad at time management. Some people have explosions or RL stuff but don't release all bindings of outstanding commissions when this happens. Some people can't stand waiting more than a few weeks while others are fine waiting 6 months. Everyone is different. :3
"We're keeping him on and fuck anyone who has a differing opinion."- I ALREADY KNEW THIS BUT THANK YOU FOR SOLIDIFYING THAT THIS PLACE IS A COMPLETE SACK OF SHIT WITH ADMINS WHO CANT EVEN BEGIN TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY THE REASON EVERYONE IS UPSET IS.
I stuck around to see what you would say but now BAI FOR GOOD!!!
good luck with the project
IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW
It's like, really, what exactly do you want to see happen? This is sexual drama from offsite, that only exists here because for some odd reason the person regretting their actions messaged Dragoneer about it and said note was hacked.
That's my interpretation anyway. Never once did he initiate any of the drama here onsite. :/
It apparently keeps things interesting
Perhaps for the people that are leaving it's for other reasons than the ones are are so... prevalent.
The furry fandom is so prone to drama it is insane
Just wait for the flood of irrationality to leave and things will calm down significantly
I think it's time for a fresh start with the furry fandom, and I think this is a good way to start. Be dead serious with what your promises are and be open with us about these issues. Like I said, I'm very skeptical about how things will turn out, but I'll be damned if I'm not surprised at how things will change.
I'm gonna catnap you.
*lets lodidah kidnap him*
bah guies I'm gonna go with Lodi Nao and live in a blindfold 8D
As fas as staff and those involved with the project, it may be prudent to consider what consequences may result from an unsupportive community. Regardless of whether allegations are true or not, the decision to continue business with unpopular staff may be unwise in the long run.
Whatever decision is made, I look forward to a hopefully brighter future for the site.
This is a site where the people in charge only care about themselves, and who THEY trust. No one care about the users and their comfort level. Your new pet has shit the bed, and instead of putting them outside and cleaning the mess, you are droning on about how, if we just stick around the smell a little longer, the drapes you've ordered will be outstanding.
This entire had an unbelievably simple solution, but no one seems interested in anything of the sort. Rather than snuff out a source of problem, you have thrown everyone under the bus.
Stop blowing smoke up your userbase's ass. Stop ignoring things. You are making things worse.
You have a point sir.
Hell people still use VCL; the main furry artsite of many years ago before FA: http://us.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/New/
Not as many mind you, but there's still a demographic.
not as active as it used to be though, because of FA.
Say, are you aware where the name actually came from? Are ya, are ya? :D
nas-Kan.
Brian Antoine created the Velans a long-ass time ago. Within the story existed the Velan Central Library. The Velans are a matriarchal society of fox anthros in a more traditional sense. The story mixes magic and technology in a galaxy-romping science-fiction war-of-the-roleplayers sense. If you can forgive some typos and such, then I do suggest reading through a few months of content and see if it grabs you once they get their ship built and start getting into trouble. ;D
http://nas-kan.org/ go read some ;3 Wings of Dreams is fantastic imo.
I upload my stuff in batches when I get a decent pile of new work and every time I do I get e-mails from people. It just doesn't have the volume of viewers that it used to :(
... hell, I still upload on Elfwood occasionally even with the atrocious interface Thomas decided to go with.
And it'll always have a special place in my heart.
Lesson learned out of over six years of membership
is this why only comments and users who criticized neer and zaush were deleted/banned and the remaining comments and users that attacked, criticized, slut-shamed and victim-blamed the original victim and other rape survivors were allowed to remain
because i don't buy a fuckin word of this horseshit t b f h
hope you scumbags have fun with your socially inept rape-defending fanclub, because im gonna have fun watching this cesspit burn to the fuckin ground
i mean trolling is normally what i do but i honestly am so sickened by the disgustingly dangerous and ignorant comments by such a large portion of this community that i'm honestly just too angry and emotionally exhausted to really bother with trolling anyone on this issue anymore, it doesnt get anywhere. people get banned for criticizing neer and zaush, meanwhile people here who are 'defending' this two are wishing rape and physical harm on actual assault survivors and i can't. i fucking can't. the userbase on this website has become a horrifying, unsafe community for survivors and instead of addressing that side of this whole fucking fiasco - which is why it exploded to the point it did in the first place whether or not zaush even did anything - the administration is just shrugging it off and saying 'oh its just a rumor, nothing is wrong, if people are gonna leave thats their problem who cares' and go back to sweeping it all under the goddamn rug. its appalling and above all disheartening as fuck
sorry i didn't mean to rant at you like that i just kind of turned into a bucket of feels for a minute there
It's an interesting commentary on the danger in judging what someone says, based not on the content of the statement, but on who is saying it.
i probably woulda switched to some sorta main account to say that for the sake of it seeming a little more serious but this is literally the only fa account i have sooooo
Now, nearly 400 comments, and by the time I post this it'll be over, but I wanted to put this out there.
If the old design interface (as in the front "user" pages/notes) can't be translated into the "new" codes. Can I at least point out that if the end result looks closer to the preview we received that we need to have the top buttons/links small enough so we can still fit the 2 top advertisements. I don't know if other users agree, but I know that I feel this way, we shouldn't take the 2 advertisement slots on the top of the screen off. I know majority (this is human nature again) don't want to scroll to the bottom of the page to see who's being advertised or if they'd be good to commission. I honestly -don't care- if the user page/notes/whatever changes so long as that one thing is fixed/doesn't change. We need the 4 ad slots, and especially the 2 on the top. c:
Alright, I've said my peace. And again, thanks Staff/Admins and other peeps for the update and clarity!
I mentioned this on the last article in some comments but there were a ton, so I can understand why it slipped by. The new design we're demonstrating is only a prototype, the ad placements in that version are definitely not final. We'll have more definite positioning for them in the future, and we'll let you guys know when we do!
Then someone gets the blame, is banned and we have the same old furaffinity.
God the trick never gets old.
Don't expect much from me or a lot of others until we actually -see- you keep your promises for once. Until then, I have little hope.
Prove it.
As far as the drama, the database access concern, given the rumors, was my main concern. The allegations are serious, however, and that leads me to approach everything with a healthy bit of caution.
As far as the site redesign.... Sounds good (though there have been a few plans for something like that for, well a lot long then I've had an account).
I don't post enough art for it to make a difference for me, but I'd imagine it'll help some folks. (I'm a mechanical designer/writer primarily. FA's Story posting system isn't capable of handling 200k word stories without clogging up, and that tends to be what I like writing. And mechanical designs are rarely something one would put here :P)
That and special chars showing up as they should, as others might have mentioned. Those would be two big improvements, in adtion to the secutiry/preformance of the whole site itself.
Just figured I'd hand my two cents in, then.
As for how they're displayed, I know that a comic/chapter type system is something that we're considering, but likely wouldn't be a part of version one of the new site.
Which makes complete sense, because it's very complicated. And, frankly, there are other, more pressing issues to fix/improve. But it's good to know that was being thought of.
(Godwin's Law, and also First. Yeah)
Until so far there are only leaked notes, statements of other female artists he had been inappropriate to and his confession to neer.
But now that you can finally prove your point, go for it.
And friends of people who are accused, are the most trustworthy witnesses, same goes for wives, husbands, children and other close relatives.
Wait... not really...
You're just as bad as anyone saying he definitely did it by saying he definitely didn't. You don't know. I don't know. Nobody but the involved parties knows. If there was proof it'd have been jumped the fuck on by now. There is no proof.
Since we have no concrete evidence to back up either claim, I was countering with opposing evidence which would have been just as valid as the other crap people are digging up to claim that Zaush did rape someone.
This is a "we do what we want, fuck you" update
Also what's gross is that other people are attacking others for being skeptic.
1) The two parties were in a mutual, sexual relationship that had a falling-out
2) The accusing party, after waiting like two years, decided to contact 'neer and basically cry "rape"
3) The date of contact was within the period known as the "great note hack" which leaves the above allegation in question
4) Sciggles clearly states there was nothing between her and Zaush.
5) The allegations of bestiality and cub-porn are from an infamous source known simply as "Encyclopedia Dramatica"
6) Photoshop can and will be used to forge screenshots
In short: the drama is based on pure bullshit.
I mean, you type so I can exclude blindness for the cause of this post.
You are smart enough to form English sentences so stupidity is not the cause.
Ignorance or Fanboy, choose.
Z fits X
Therefore Z has commited Y
This the reasoning many are following in this thread, and is fallacious, rednec0 is neither Ignorant or Fanboy.
For each finger pointing at somebody else, 3 fingers point at you.
It was admitted by Zaush and Dragoneer himself that he forced sex on this girl.
That alone should be good enough to bother you.
Even if there would be a sentence and show it. It would be of course forged, judged/jury was/were biased/bought.
It is fanboism, endstage, incurable.
Just let it go its way.
Foolish of us to think popufurs are humans, tststs
And all the research done by the person, who claims that Zaush is innocent is probably done on e621
Rather relatives and close people / formerly close.
Yeah, you really did your research... on e621.net maybe looking for Adam's latest prnz pics
That's going too far
Clearly, the victim's only reason for coming out about the abuse they suffered was to ~*~get back at their abuser.~*~ Victim-blaming at it's finest, really.
They see someone attacking their favorite artists, fear the supply of porn and flame the person who is putting doubt about the clean image of someone ( lol as if Adam had a clean reputation even without this )
The simplest cure is to hope that those who blame the victim turn into a victim. Problem solved
I'll beat it, but only because your head is too far up your own ass to listen to reason. Enjoy living in your ignorant little bubble.
W o w.
Nevermind the fact that if this all was some diabolic scheme to bring down poor lil Zaushie that, you know...They would have probably gone public with it and all that! Not shyly admitted it to a site admin as a warning in a private note. Yeah. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for opening my eyes.
Also where is the proof that Zaush has a history of Sexual misconduct? Cause i seem to have missed that somewhere. Or are you referring to the so called "other victims" named in the leaked notes? Yea dont buy it sorry.
I have no idea why you're so hellbent on defending someone like Zaush, but whatever. Enjoy. I'm done. You are not worth my time.
"So to you it's believable that an ex and a bunch of their buddies would gang up and scheme to bring down this guy via something this heinous years and years after the fact...But it's not believable that a man with a history of unwanted sexual advances would one day push it too far?"
But yea you not gonna change my mind, and im obviously not gonna change yours.
We'll agree to disagree I guess. :/
>Implying that the "victim" is a victim and not someone with a grudge/coerced
All your all doing is trying to pressure her to go out and make it completely public shes raped or she has to shut up. His ways have been spoken for. There is no need to prove crap.
The entire handling of this situation is what matters.
More of my thoughts on the large amount of virility and degrading quality thought that the internet has been instilling into those that wander around it: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:38200255
Even I've been involved in relationship drama, from similar instances of flirting at conventions. I know that I for SURE wouldn't want to have this type of thing happen to me, especially not when I honestly thought everything was peachy-keen and I was behaving like a normal person fooling around at a con. X_X;; (In the instance where I was put into an awkward situation afterwards, the woman just seemed to have a hard time saying no so she instead was extremely submissive. This simply made me feel like shit afterwards and in spite of saying sorry, I feel I contributed towards pushing her into a dark state. It's like, really, what the hell am I ~supposed~ to do???)
Err. I ranted a bit. Sorry. XD But really, even just flirting carries some major risks for guys these days. Not being able to read women very well is something that's kept me single my whole life. I'm a nice guy but I tend to back off at the slightest bit of resistance because I don't want drama. x.x
So I guess I just tend to always be a loner. xD
Where are you experiencing this problem? If you can let me know that would be a great help.
Thanks!
It's bad enough from the last update you guys did a couple years back to the site, on PSP it's nowadays only possible to browse some parts of the site and ONLY if you stop mid-loading, if you let the page load all the way it doesn't work anymore, so improving that would be great.
Simple is always better, DON'T do the mistakes of deviantart where it's physically impossible to browse the site even with newer supercomputers because they have so much unnecessary javashits slowing it down to a complete stop.
FA's been my #1 choice all these years because it's the only one that still kinda works, don't take that away from me in favor of garbage that will only ruin the site like DA did.
I think you have bigger problems if you only have a PSP to browse the internet to be calling names at a powerful scripting language. Here I thought Internet Explorer was the biggest joke on the internet~
da TRASHES my browser, and i have a dual core processor D; prolly not the BEST dual core but it's still dual core! my vita can handle da A BIT but my 3ds absolutely CANNOT handle da... even the message inbox D;
javascript is a pain in the ASS when there is just TOO MUCH of it.
After closing the DA page *take time* pretty much instantaneous, keeping in mind this page isn't small either with all these comments, animated avatars etc.
It wouldn't have been so bad if not all other options weren't so vastly superior in every way, I mean if javascript actually brought ANYthing to the table other than atrocious optimization and performance drops I could've been okay with it in tiny doses, but it doesn't.
And to anyone whop wonders why I use my PSP, it's simple, PSP is the best for me and I want/love to use it.
If I wanted to use my smart phone or tablet I would, but I hate touch screen controls and PSP offers what I love, buttons, if I can't do something on my PSP I'd rather just go to the computer than use the smart phone or tablet, hell I'd rather start my Wii and use that to go online than use my smart phone or tablet! Still, much rather PSP than any of the rest though.
While most of the community leaves, and others continue to pry and ask for questions, only to be given a swift ban.
"The end justifies the means", am I right?
Simply Neer Logic
I'd say more about it, but one never knows who might be spoiled by reading these comments. :c
But, welcoming in a new change because I know how hard it is to keep wanting to put something up and plan on it and everything, and even announce it, but it never seems to come out right for it. Coding isn't an easy thing for this, so I'ma be patient and wait for it.
1. DRAGONEER IS A FAGGOT.
2. SQUIGGLES IS DRAGONEER'S BEARD, HE ONLY MARRIED HER TO HIDE THE FACT THAT HE'S GAY.
3. BOTH OF THEM ARE FUCKING RETARDED AND CORRUPT ASS HOLES.
4. SQUIGGLES DIDN'T MARRY DRAGONEER FOR HIS LOOKS (thats obvious).
5. DRAGONEER PUT SQUIGGLES AS THE HEAD ADMIN WITHOUT ANY PRIOR ADMIN EXPERIENCE.
6. SQUIGGLES BANS FOR NO REASON.
7. YOU CAN'T QUESTION EITHER OF THEM.
6. YOU CAN'T EVEN SIMPLY ASK WHAT HAPPENS TO THE MONEY YOU DONATE TO THE SITE.
7. I CAN'T MAKE ANY OF THESE SENTENCES TOO COMPLICATED OR ELSE THE ADMINS WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO READ IT.
9. RULES DON'T APPLY TO ADMINS AND POPULAR ARTISTS AND THE ADMINS MAKE UP THE RULES AS THEY GO.
10. DRAGONEER AND SQIGGLES ABUSE THEIR POWER TO GET FREE ART FROM ARTISTS AND MOST LIKELY HAVEN'T PAID AN ARTIST IN WHO KNOWS HOW LONG
11. IM PRETTY SURE DRAGONEER IS COMPENSATING.
12. AND IF YOU DIDN'T GET NUMBER 11 IM SAYING HE HAS A SMALL PENIS.
13. AND THEY'RE RATHER LARGE! AND NOT JUST LARGE. MACY'S DAY PARADE BALLOON FAT. FAT AS FUCK. HOLY SHIT FAT.
And if this doesn't get me banned i don't know what will. BAN MEH FAGGET.
here's the front door: http://www.furaffinity.net/logout/
Disabling your page is the best way to get your account "gone"; even moreso than being banned because you can't see the page.
and for someone that really hates this site you sure do keep coming back leaving comments eh?
This journal is full of shit. Why? Because of the performance and behavior of the staff. When your own community points out that you are full of shit, making empty promises, saying updates will never happen and just brushing what you say off as if you were the boy that cried wolf, then you know that the site or rather, those in the administration are useless. Take the site admin. Would be a person of neutral standpoint trying to get everyone's view point but what do we have? A guy that loves his twinkies. Hell, didn't we have a "No call out" rule? And wht did one certain user do? Made a journal about bouncing breast icons, then LINKED to a journal and admitted that there were more users with this icon very plainly POINTING INDIVIDUALS OUT...and those users had their avatars removed. Hypocritical administration at its finest.
Sure Zaush has allegations associated with him, but you are a liar if you claim you cant say "Sure we will hire you" or "no". You can say no, you choose not to. Yeah, he doesnt have a criminal history, but on the same note there isnt any court documentation arguing one way or the other
Administration staff...where do I begin? What happened to "Hey, looking for someone that knows computer code XYZ" instead of hiring friends or significant others with no experience what so ever. Ok, so we see dragoneer owning the site...and his wife as the lead admin? And she has no experience?! So we have someone training incoming admins with no experience....lovely. Then you have some moderators suspending and banning on their own accord...yes your administration staff sounds oh so very reliable...maybe this is why your community dislikes you?
site reliability...is non existant. Site goes down for 2 weeks then comes back up....then you break a hard drive and it goes down for 3 more days...is it honestly that suprising to see your user base go to more reliable sites? To go with that, is it that shocking to see users migrate to sites that ALREADY HAVE WHAT THEY WANT?!folders, a chat service, methods to listen to their community and improve their site BASED ON THE COMMUNITY'S WANTS is not that hard to go by...but apparently that is too hard for this site.
All around this site is useless, digging itself into a deeper hole and burning to a pile of ashes
If it's not hiring a dog fucker to be an admin, it's hiring a rapist. If it's not a dogfucker or a rapist, it's your inept wife. If it's none of those, just pick from a pool of popular artists/furries after they bribe you with art. If the inept site staffing isn't a prime concern, then the dozens of security holes in the site can take their turn at trying to buttfuck you for your data. If it's not that, it's the site's finances being mis-managed or even embezzled. If it's not any of that, it's general mis-management of the site, so that we get a few week's worth of downtime when they forget to enable automatic cache deletion. If not THAT, you can choose the site going down when they choose to work on live code rather than work on things to the side, take down the site to implement solid changes, and then reboot the site.
PICK YOUR DERP. IT COMES IN MANY FLAVOURS.
You've made my day. xD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBrdPbgXnMo
If you really want to leave just leave and don't look back - no one is stopping you.
... You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.
I see you are an expert on this topic. Dr. Prof. Wan N. A. Be
Oh, you cannot...
We got leaked notes, statements of other artists he has been inappropriate with, but go on expert.
Save your favorite artist.
Truth is not the thing you want it to be, think about it.
Read where sciggles says that Zaush didnt even assault her.
Read where the "leaked notes" were altered and fudged to make them look more like rape.
Read where it was 2 YEARS after it happened before anything was even said about it.
Read the chat logs that Zaush has posted as well as his side of events.
And for fucks sake, read the name of goddamn website your even looking at those "leaked notes" on. Encyclopedia Dramatica? Furry scumbags? People's random blogs and twiiter accounts? This is your proof that something malicious actually happened, this is what you show me. You really must have some issues if you think that anything posted on those sources can actually be considered fact.
You want to see this crap? Note me id be glad to show you exactly how i can confirm its all bullshit.
Zaush of course couldn't do the same...
Bias much?
All of it, currently, is he said/she said. Everyone's free to form their own opinions on the matter.
I don't have an opinion... because I don't know who any of these people are.
I definitely believe, however, that this whole mess could have been handled better by the staff of FA.
I think it could have been handled better on all sides, to be honest. But unfortunately what's done is done.
So, read this along with me here. You ready?
---DOWNTIME IS EXPECTED AND WHEN IT HAPPENS IT CANNOT BE QUICKLY FIXED---
Shit breaks, backups are not already owned due to a negligible budget, they must be obtained, data must be transferred, problems arise, etc. Welcome to the tech world. Go take a course on data logistics.
>_>
<_<
I am but a simple little husky
someone draw slutty pictures of meprancing around the snow fields with his friends.Innocent as a newborn babe
who is actually an adult who wants sexy picturesI only hope that we can all just get along and not gossip about each other in some kind of prosperoushardcore orgycommunion of being!Amen
Ah~ men~(Nice phrasing for, you do not know a bit)
Voice your opinion without name-calling, you'll be fine.
lying slanderous/libelous bitches
whores
cunts
sluts
and on top of all of that threatening actual rape survivors with rape and physical harm for having the audacity to question some dog dick artist's integrity
all in the same spaces as the people who were criticizing neer and zaush
how many of these people who were so elegantly 'defending' neer and zaush got their comments deleted, or were banned?
oh right
none
because the administration is too fucking concerned with tackling criticism of their own dumbass decisions than actually upholding this code of conduct they're now hiding behind
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/.....8#cid:37488677
I'm pretty sure it's against the site's TOS to have a 'last word' scenario where the staff member pretty much says 'you don't understand' and then blocks you to prevent further discussion of the issue.
But it's OK.
She's 'Neer's wife. I don't expect shit.
Seriously... most of this is less then a stone's throw from each other. It's hard to miss.
i mean if you guys were actually reading the shit going on on your own damn site while deleting anything that criticized your stupid fucking decision you would have seen them yourselves
if you seriously need someone to point out shit that you should have already fucking seen then maybe you should get some more competent mods involved
(pref. ones who aren't just getting the job because they're buddies with pre-existing mods)
I don't mean to bash you or the staff but that is my honest opinion without any bullshit thrown in.
You do know the No 1 contributer to "rape-culture" according to Feminists, right? It's Porn and Sex. Last time I checked that's pretty much what a huge chunk of this site is about. So how should such an ideological shift be achieved then? Make the site G-Rated and hand out the fur burquas?
Feminism: the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.
Feminist: those who believe in feminism.
Rape culture: a concept that links rape and sexual violence to the culture of a society, and in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape.
Straw feminist: a sex-negative, man-hating caricature, used in straw man arguments against feminist ideas.
Ideological shifts happen only from introspection, in my experience. The tricky part is, when the truth is invisible or doesn't make personal sense.
Now on to your point about rape culture – very cute but ultimately useless cliff notes version of the concept. If you would be asked to describe rape culture in an academic paper and would come up with that, it would probably result in a C. In reality things are less clear. Different Feminist schools have different concepts of what constitutes rape culture and what not. However, they all seem to agree on the following:
Pornography has also been commonly targeted as a contributor to rape culture because it is said to contribute to larger patterns of oppression. Feminists frequently link rape culture to the widespread distribution of pornography, which is seen as an expression of a rape culture that objectifies women, reducing the female body to a commodity.[38] The fusion of several pornographic motifs are seen in the accounts of rapists. - source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture
Straw-Feminist: I'm a bit confused about that point. If someone argues about tenets of Feminist Theory and their different schools and quotes works of Feminist writers (haven't done that yet. It's just a general question) that could be interpreted as "sex-negative" or "man-hating" does that make these writers not “real” Feminists then? Sounds a bit like wading into "No true Scotsman"-Fallacy territory.
Ideological shifts: Certainly, but I am really not interested in lofty speculation about an idealized view of a thought process. I would really like to know hands down what you advocate the admins should do to prevent perceived “rape culture” on FA. I have a hunch that every idea you come up with will ultimately be nothing more than a form of censorship of speech and expression.
Now on to your point about rape culture – very cute but ultimately useless cliff notes version of the concept. If you would be asked to describe rape culture in an academic paper and would come up with that, it would probably result in a C. In reality things are less clear. Different Feminist schools have different concepts of what constitutes rape culture and what not. However, they all seem to agree on the following: [wikipedia excerpt]
The "cliff notes" definition you are attempting to argue against came straight from the same page you cited: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_c.....gins_and_usage
Wikipedia has its faults and biases--just like any dictionary and encyclopedia--but I thought the definition had value, so I included it.
Straw-Feminist: I'm a bit confused about that point. If someone argues about tenets of Feminist Theory and their different schools and quotes works of Feminist writers (haven't done that yet. It's just a general question) that could be interpreted as "sex-negative" or "man-hating" does that make these writers not “real” Feminists then? Sounds a bit like wading into "No true Scotsman"-Fallacy territory.
Are you suggesting that your G-rated fur-burquas comment be afforded the same intellectual respect as a serious, differing opinion on feminism? In my opinion, it should not--a strawman attack does not contribute to the culture, and instead denigrates it and according to my values, I reacted appropriately.
Ideological shifts: Certainly, but I am really not interested in lofty speculation about an idealized view of a thought process. I would really like to know hands down what you advocate the admins should do to prevent perceived “rape culture” on FA. I have a hunch that every idea you come up with will ultimately be nothing more than a form of censorship of speech and expression.
That's not quite what I'm going after, but understanding thoughts are vital to my reasoning. If you like, I can attempt to explain my thought process.
I'll start by making some assumptions:
1. all speech and expression contribute to some system, positive or negative, subtle or obvious, in our minds and in the minds of those witnessing it. For example, if I call a gay man a faggot, that has repercussions in both my mind and his. It also has social and possibly legal repercussions.
2. These repercussions are culturally accumulative in our language, values, law, art, media, religion, and politics.
3. people will generally resist internalizing suggestions or orders unless they believe them to be true.
Are you with me so far?
I will use other art sites on the side like Weasyl, InkBunny and Sofurry - but I will always use FA.
I won't leave the site over some silly hearsay drama.
We get that you guys are upset, but we don't care enough. Also HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED didn't get arrested so who cares? Also apparently sexual assault isn't against FA policy, that's neat! So yeah, HE is staying on staff.
And all I wanted to do tonight was to look at some porn.
Anyway, what does Voldermort have to do with any of this? >:I
You put your petty "vision" above people's wishes not to see a man that is, in every sense of the word, VILE, be granted a position a large sum of your user-base has cried out against.
Having been part of this site since February 2006, I have seen some insane events go down, each one handled with the grace of a snake in the throws of death. Frankly, we deserve better than a site that hides every flaw and never explains for it besides, "I bought this site and I will run it how I damned well please."
This
i guess it's exactly like the 2nd poster said so that'll surely help this site's image even further.
Makes me think: 'internet drama = first world problems'.
Where's Waldo?
You mean like Ferrox, Furaffinity 2.0 and others?
Just stop.
"Attention! This is our concern addressing tone. We are addressing your concerns. There is nothing to be concerned about. Stop being concerned. That is all."
How many more times will you "take a new approach" to resolving Trouble Tickets before admitting that the real problem is the administration that doesn't give a damn?
How many more times will you "rewrite and condense" the Terms and Codes before everyone understands them?
How many more times will you "recruit new administrators" to replace those that leave in utter disgust at how poorly FA is run?
You're only fooling yourselves here.
Likewise, as with many documents most sites find the need to update their policy documents somewhat regularly, it's a necessary fact as the site grows, changes, and new issues become apparent.
As for administrators leaving, Fur Affinity is staffed by volunteers. With volunteer positions you will generally have a higher turnaround rate than, say, paid staff due to the nature of the position. It shouldn't be thought of them "quitting" so much as them transitioning on to another opportunity in their life.
Rewriting your policies every year is not necessary. Not by a long shot. Things don't change that fast in the furry world. And if they do, that means the policy has historically been inadequate, which is another failing. And rewriting a policy that the administration doesn't even adhere to is even more meaningless than the rewrite itself.
And yes, it should be damn well thought of as quitting. The ones who made journals didn't go on about how they had "moved on with their life", they made journals about how bad the position was and how they couldn't stand it anymore. Most of them wished they could stay on - quitters don't wish they can stay on.
Sorry, but trying to excuse the shortcomings of the site is not the same as addressing the issues. In fact, you should probably start by responding to the pending trouble tickets in your queue, instead of getting involved in a public debate about the integrity and competence of the administrators - that way you'd be dealing with the cause, and not the symptom.
Then again, FA have bitten off more than they can chew usually.
Lets see if Mr. Zaush is the magic man with the good hand, or be another person who loses to the house. 9 years and so many promises he got his work cut out for him really.
Like the article says, we're looking at improving how tickets are handled by a multi-pronged approach. You're right, manpower alone isn't the best tool, but we can combine various tools in order to provide the best service we can.
"Team Leads" - Select leaders for certain issues. These leaders know the issue like the back of their hands. They also should know most aspects of the rest of the terms.
"The Team" - These team leaders select members they feel they can trust through interviews and the like to handle issues of that specific field.
"Team Members" - These members only handle issues that they are well versed in handling. Any multi-spectrum issues or issues that have a questionable answer to are differed to the Team Lead.
"Board Decisions" - In the event that the Team Lead has trouble dealing with an 'escalated' issue, discussion between all Team Leads should occur. Ideally this should be rare, and recurring issues should be further clarified in Terms of Use.
This will allow you to build you team stronger where issues are more time sensitive, as well as to not overload the volunteers by having them handle all types of issues.
:3
That, and I would think about how to best handle cases of an incorrect judgement. Perhaps first contention would be having another member of the team also review it. Second contention would be the Team Lead looking into it with a final decision being made there with potential re-educating of team members following it. Obviously many people will whine to whine so it's important to have such procedures outlined.
*Enjoys thinking of such logistics*
I mean whatever you do it's definitely going to take FA offline for like a week and cause major crying but as long as it finally happens...
You ticket submitters need to make sure to provide legible, clear communication that doesn't ramble or state opinions and provide all of the relevant links and then they can take action on it within a minute of reading it.
Or maybe it's the chance mine might have fallen into a ticket type category that is actually being handled normally IDK.
Your second possibility is more likely.
I am patient in waiting for my tickets to be resolved. But there are some instances where expediency would be critical. Those are what bother users the most. When I started here, it took weeks for an answer. It improved during the spamming incidents of the "Hey buddy" "In the spirit of the Olympics" and "Full malls" spammers, tickets were handled overnight. Since then it has slid in response time dramatically.
I'm not bashing, and am just saying...you are one of the fortunate. Give me some good fortune! :)
Thanks for the link. We probably won't be using that tool necessarily, but I do appreciate the offer and help!
updating site documents isn't going to fix this shitty site.
Ya blew it.
No updates.
Userbase will return.
Murry-purry shit continues.
Rinse&Repeat
Oh, and something about a site redesign? Cool yay woo. Just don't break everything, and you've got my approval.
Also people keep throwing around the word libel in the journal, which leads me to believe they don't actually know what libel is.
Think of it as like letting a cop rumored to be racist on the police force. There's no legitimate proof aside from a bit of hearsay but it's not slander to be concerned that a cop might be racist nonetheless.
Especially if you're in said group the cop is said to be racist against.
How is Ben anyway? I thought it was an awful shame to lose someone so dedicated to making the site better.
Wow, such truth, very amaze, wow
(But really, I look forward to surprising you!)
Naysayer's ready!
Fight.
But seriously. I see to sides of this argument and how it's being taken and, I got to side with the naysayers. There's still zero transparency here.
And I'm still waiting on a ledger to show experiences. Giving just how many donations go to this place I would like to know exactly where the communities money is going. There's been to many hardware problems and expenses to fix those problems here, and yet I cant remember ever seen a shopping list/ledger showing where the money is going. Giving that features her have been so slow or nonexistent to get out and the sight still constantly goes down/has issues.
This journal seems to be all fluff worded in such a way to appease those that won't look deeper into the situation, or may be new to it all or whatever.
This has been the same song and dance they have done anytime they have don something controversial...
And typical anyone that speak up against it is flooded by said whiteknighters saying "BYE don't let the door hit you on the way out!", rather then wonder, "Hey,.. if so many people are upset.. maybe I should look for more information. But NAH, long as the sight runs, it's OK by me."
This is sloppy. Really sloppy. But I suppose also par for the course.
And you wonder why people are in such arms. 6+ years of this. Get it together.
My responsibilities here are to increase transparency, and I'm working on it. I've got a lot coming down the pipeline for you guys, but I do ask that you be patient. It takes time to transition everyone and everything smoothly.
So I ask for your patience and for you to at least give me a shot as the "new guy" to have more than a week to get everything I want to get done!
You've had my patience. You've had it for 6+ years. 6 years. 2190 'days', and COUNTING. And still this transpires. That means one of two things: You really don't want us to know what you all do behind closed doors, further fostering the distrust in the community. Or You are terribly slow with the concept of wearing everything on ones sleeve.
This has to stop or like I see above, very few will ever take you seriously or trust a word you say, even when/if you do gain transparency. People will likely considered everything just more smoke and mirrors.
I hope that does not happen to you.
If you want something to get done something major needs to be done before more than this project goes up in smoke.
I've already said it, but it's nice to see staff communicating with the users.
'Hey! We hear your concerns, but we don't give enough of a fuck to do anything about it! Also, by the way, here's some shit we're planning for the future, hopefully it'll be enough to make you forget about the past week and let things get back to normal' :D
Aka; Nothing's changed, and the admins don't really care :3 nice to know.
bleh idk where I'm going with this TldR
we need online and offline statuses, especially on such a simple site like this. Why not you know join the internet and get a full layout like a website that has users and doesn't feel like an html storage facility.
I like those odds.
Also, keep on keeping on! I can't wait to see the new FA!!
cant let it be racist like that duuuuuude
But when I say that someone violated the Code of Conduct on fA, well then everyone loses their minds!
yay joker memes XD
lol i dont/never did give 2 shakes of a fiddlers FUCK about all this drama. Just lemme post mah porn! >:U
I just came into this thread.
:3
Anyone noticed that this sentence actually did not make sense? It says
"We used to removed comment where people were concerned about what happened. We did so because of our code of conduct. However, from now on, we will only remove stuff that violates code of conduct"
It's like trying to acknowledge that you have done something wrong, without quite wanting to admit to it!
Also
"Sexual assault is a serious topic"
I assume that is why it was joked about and ridiculed. Fun fact is, none of this mess clean up would not have happened if the staff realized that there is a site that starts to become a threat to FA. If that site gets enough momentum, it's enough to tumble FA's rule over.
As stated before, you do not need to feel that the evidence is strong enough to send a person to jail. You may simply be upset with how staff handles matters. Leaving a site is not the same as proclaiming that someone is guilty. It's a personal decision.
I've been in the fandom for 20 years, sites come and sites go. FA is not the end of all things, nor is Weasyl. Fortunately, the furry fandom is not a site centered fandom. It's a community, and FA is just one of the blocks in that community.
Saying "GenericFurry is a rapist!" is still not okay anywhere on the site, but if you want to talk about the allegations against staff members and how they make you uncomfortable we won't intervene until things cross that line.
Obviously I don't know about every single comment made and every single action taken, so I'm only speaking based on what I have seen personally, most of which has been comments on the newsposts.
I am aware of the fact that this does not involve the entire FA staff, and I still feel that several on FA staff are great people, and I have no desire to judge you or other staff members I know based on what is happened. It is my opinion though that the staff handling this did so in a very bad manner. One can say that there were people on the other "team" that came with bad responses. I do feel, however, that one should expect more professionalism from site-staff than one might expect from a common from FA users.
I'll still be a fan of you and your art and will keep looking out for new stuff!
Until you have found a way, I rather stick with the victim since although against popular belief, most rape accusations are real.
Thing is too, with most rape victims, they tend to wash themselves afterwards, which destroys most of the evidence. However, since there wasn't anything even close to rape occurring, just some on again off again casual swinging sex with a boyfriend in the background telling her he didn't like it (but she still did it anyway more than once) evidence was never even a factor. Well after the relationship had ended, claims of rape came up.
Uh, okay.
As I said, it is hard for the victim to prove. There can always be billions of time consensual and one time no, so do the billions of times justify the one time or make it clear that the one time was also consensual? No.
That's what people forget. What relationship they are in, is simply not important. Rape means without consent, it can happen everywhere, in every relationship. Them being swingers is not an excuse and even a worse alibi.
The staff can manage notes if necessary, access deleted journals and hidden journals.
I do not care if it is just him, but him as an admin/staff/involved in the coding/redesign. Hell no!
Everyone is basically mad, that he's spending hours of his personal free time, sitting at a computer, and writing code, to make all of our lives easier on FA. He's not getting anything out of this, in fact, the way everyone's acting I'm surprised he's not just backed down entirely and said fuck it.
He could still implement secret backdoors and such which could make him an administrator or give him access to the site.
Therefore I do not want see him involved in this site, neither as coder, administrator, moderator or anything.
That's my understanding of what you're saying, if I'm wrong please don't be frustrated, just elaborate for me.
He could still try to go for charges against her because of badmouthing him. Until proven innocent, just let him be an average user of the site.
Jesus Christ, this is like asking someone to prove God doesn't exist.
There is a reason why we use 'innocent until proven guilty' in courts of law.
Also, as this site is not even an archive for you, you can also delete your content. Oh and disable shouts since you won't be returning, don't want people thinking you're simply ignoring their shouts.
And yet you have a staff member that makes jokes about sexual assault. hmm. yeahokay.
Regardless of wither the allegations or false or not, 'Neer, you proly should've had the foresight that this would've been a huge PR disaster. Seriously.
Initial thoughts about site changes: Heard it all before to the point of being a broken record, its said actions speak louder than words and even those words have been used before on site upgrades we never saw. I like FA but to be honest I wont be holding my breath especially since how long other "beta" versions have been in the oven before being scrapped
and the other drama with that dude and his apparently sexual assaulting someone. Remember folks Innocent until proven Guilty in a court of law!
2014 - The year FA follows through with a promise? or will it be another drama filled year of overly sensitive furry's... we shall see but I got my popcorn here! and folks remember: http://www.furaffinity.net/full/9430175/ Think about it a while before you post, walk away for a few hours if you need too then come back with a level head!
It'll be really funny when all the people claiming that everyone will be back in a month notice that people are actually gone for good. If anything, this news is just going to encourage more people to leave than before. I know I sure as hell have no desire to stay anymore.
Now as for this whole damn drama i really have to say something about it now. If the person who's name i will not say cause everyone knows it was actually guilty do you really think that person would even be online at all let alone on a site that carries adult material? i highly doubt it. Second and most importantly When the hell did FA become court system? i mean i am not defending anyone here but if its based on rumors and such no hard facts etc why the hell are users even talking about it and saying whether this person did or did not do something. I mean geeze last time i checked this site was for art, music, stories, poems etc, not to be a judge, jury and executioner so to speak.
One more thing on this drama\rumor. normally it should be between the parties involved right? Well someone please tell me this. When the hell does someone who you do not know at all in real life have anything to do with what you do on this site let alone why is it anyone's business?
Just do what you came to this site for, to see art, read stories, listen to music and talk to friends etc, I personally don't give a damn about the rumors cause of one key thing. It has nothing to do with me!
This issue about [one who shall not be named] (and I say it that way because apparently things have gotten a bit crazy with Admins hiding comments and suspending users), whether or not happened is irrelevant in the eyes of this site. Before you hate on me for saying that, read on. What I mean by that is that this site should be more concerned with catering to the artists of this site than protecting or trying to defend accusations of someone on staff. Which means that if the overwhelming majority of the users/artists of the site feel that a certain staff/developer working on the site is offensive, hated, untrusted, etc, THAT is the main concern site Admins should concern themselves with. Whether or not accusations, past history, whatever can be proven is entirely irrelevant. The mere appearance or rumor of impropriety on the part of ANY admin staff should be cause for concern and subject to change. The Admin should take a truly neutral stance on this and simply ask said person to step down from their role for the sake of the community. At the same time, said person should WILLINGLY step down, regardless if they are innocent, guilty, whatever for the betterment of this community.
Web developers are a dime a dozen. There are TONS of developers who are also artists more than capable of doing the work this person was hired to do. In fact, from what I read, there have been many folks over the years who have already attempted to do this type of project under their own time so if nothing else they have an advantage already over the current team. Regardless if their initial designs dont conform, if hired to do a job they either take direction from the site owner or they dont. If they dont, they get replaced.
As far as the notion of privacy in data from Admins, arbitrarily changing rules on the forum that the community disagrees with, appointing staff that the community disagrees with and the rest of the issues I see in play throughout all this, there are more mature, responsible, and better ways to handle those things than have been done.
From my perspective, the Admins of this site run it as their own. Making decisions based on their own wants and desires, not adhering to standards or enforcing rules without bias and so on. This is a HUGE problem. Now I can see why this might be happening. One, this isnt a real for-profit site. Im sure revenues are generated through ads or elsewhere, but artists as far as I can tell dont pay to be here. Thats fine. However...just because the site is privately owned does not mean it should be run like a personal project.
This site exists solely because of the artists and users who come here. That is the key which I think is being forgotten here. FA does not exist without the contributions of artists. Without them it is a site with no content. THAT fact needs to be taken into account on every decision made by the Admins. What the Admins want or dont want, feel or dont feel, or whatever is inconsequential to the end all be all fact that this is a site driven by user content. Because of that, the majority of the users opinions and desires needs to be taken into consideration before any decision is made or this site is doomed to die. Perhaps back in the early days this was the only site for Furry content, but that is no longer the case and the site is dated, plagues with constant outages and drama that make it undesirably for artists to want to continue to post work here. This arrogant concept that oozes from the Admins of "we do what we want because we know thats best" does not work and will not work. Again, perhaps in the early days it did, but that doesnt hold true any longer. FA is nothing without the artist community here. In the end the community will always remain but FA can just as easily fade into nothingness. So whether the site owner(s) like it or not, you are in the business of appeasing that community.
So...as an Admin, I would be asking myself this question right now: "Are these decisions the best for the community?" and I can tell you as an outsider who doesnt care about the drama because I have no loyalty to this site or any other nor to any specific persons, no...the current decisions are not whats best for the community. If thats how you want to run it, fine. Again, privately owned and all that jazz, but this site is in serious danger of becoming obsolete and this latest drama bomb in the community will only hasten its demise if continued to be dealt with in this manner.
And the assumption that decisions are made arbitrarily is something that I've seen throughout my professional experience. Decisions are far from arbitrary, and I've personally been reading every comment I could regarding this situation for the past several days, which has as you can imagine taken up quite a bit of my own time. I brought all of these to the table when we were making our decisions, and we took into account the community's voice and concern when making these decisions.
I can understand how that isn't obvious just now, but I do hope in the future you'll give us the opportunity to demonstrate more clearly that we do listen.
hires rapist
At the same time I am pretty sure that the community would not mind rallying behind a fund raiser of sorts to fund a paid development of the site using standard donations or Indiegogo or something of the like.
With regard to decision making, from outside view these decisions seem to be made arbitrarily and without care or concern of the community. Whether that is true or not again is inconsequential because the appearance of such is what counts in a community like this.
As I stated I have no loyalty to this site or any other. I come here to see artists. I keep out of drama, politics, whatever because I could care less about those things. What I see is the artists being enraged at certain decisions and rather than open dialogue about how to improve, alter or better those decisions to appease the community, I only see defense of those decisions based off statements like "I dont feel..." or "This is what we believe..." and no evidence given one way or another to substantiate those claims which is then followed by statements that can otherwise be summarized as "trust us" which is effectively what youre asking me to do in your reply. Therein lies the problem though, due to what I can only believe to be a series of mistakes, bad decisions, or whatever, there is a seemingly overwhelming distrust of the site Administration among a large majority of the community. Comments on this thread alone show that. THAT is a huge problem, and the first step toward resolving that problem is to have a more open discussion about things rather than just making statements that can be summarized as "it is what it is".
Again, I dont care about the person involved in all this. Thats not to say I condone what may or may not have taken place, because I dont, but again, not getting involved. If this site fades away I will just move along to the others I peruse daily and follow my favorite artists elsewhere.
And the mistrust is nothing new, and it's something we're working to curb. Unfortunately it's just something that's going to take time to resolve. And you're right, statements asking for trust won't get us much ground now, but hopefully in the future as we deliver on our promises we can follow through.
Simply taking the approach of "This is the decisions we've made and are staying with them, you'll just have to trust us" is not going to foster any trust or respect. As a PR person, you above anyone else should be well aware that image is everything, facts be damned and that speculation in a society or community has way of becoming fact.
Right now, from the gist of the comments I read here (and like you, ive read them all), people seem to view the admins of this site as follows: manipulative, egotistical power abusers who engage in cronyism.
Now, again, regardless over how true these sentiments might be, thats a sign of an extreme problem when more than one or even a handful are making those claims. This notion of providing more transparency in decision making and the whole admin process I read about from staff postings; this statement made here today, this is not how that process starts.
Open and intelligent dialogue can be engaged in on this and other issues to bring about a resolution that is not necessarily going to be everything each side wants, but certainly can be something that each side can accept. That isnt taking place. Dictation is what I see, and that is a sure sign of imminent failure if continued.
The replies here and even statements made by staff all seem to try and paint this picture that the person involved which has caused this whole flame up of anger is somehow the only person in the community possible to carry out this re-invention of the site and I find that impossible to believe. They may be good at what they do, truthfully I don't know but I do know they are not the only person out there that can handle the job. Yes this is a large site, but there is a problem here with that logic in that 1 person can not undertake an entire redesign and re-code of this site, I dont care if they were Tim Berners-Lee, its just not possible.
There are people willing and I am quite sure able to perform this task, and while 1 or 2 of them cannot do it alone as it is a large project, that is why you develop a team that works together and divides up the project among the team assigning tasks based on strengths. Someone might be good at UI, another at database queries and so on. There seems to be a world of hopes placed on this one individual doing this monumental task and how no one else is equipped to do so, but if this whole revamp relies on 1 person, its going to fail. I worked and still work on enough large websites, many larger than this to know that 1 person will not do what you seek.
Why not hold a open call for developers and formulate a team for this project? Ive not seen any such call, people can submit resumes, examples, etc and you can select and assemble a team of volunteers who will be successful. Hell Im capable and would, the only reason I havent is like I said, Im a lurker and no one knows me, and it seems in order to even get considered one has to be known in the community.
There are a multiple range of options to do this in such a way where it would foster trust and acceptance with the community as well as actually end up with results, fundraiser, etc and yet they are just seemingly ignored in favor of this one which countless numbers are opposed to and no logical explanation of why this is the only solution is ever given. Thats why the community is angered and enraged at all this more so than anything else.
I've said all I intend to say on this and leave it at that. Like I said, I follow the artists and not the site, wherever they go, I follow in views. I only follow a hundred or so folks on here and so far over half have openly stated they are looking to display works elsewhere. Thats a sign of a problem, and if the Admins choose to ignore that, well thats their right to, but its also a dumb move.
FA has had DOZENS of people who are "incredibly skilled and willing to volunteer their free time for the betterment of the community and the site". They've all been ignored, mistreated, or had organized PR campaigns run against them. They've been called "trolls" when they brought up things FA was doing wrong in public. So no, don't sit here and try feeding us this "It's hard to find help!" shit again. It's hard for FA to find anyone to help because they've alienated anyone who's tried.
FA has NOT LISTENED. EVER. Eevee was outright ignored when bringing up security issues. Yak even said he knew of and wasn't concerned about the "comment hiding exploit" when it was brought to his attention.
You've been on staff a week. Stop talking to us like you've been the "PR guy" for years. You don't seem to even HAVE the whole story.
On the other hand, will there be themes for the new build? Such as the current dark and light ones? I think I may be one of the few people that uses the light version, because the dark one hurts my eyes q.q And needless to say, but I'd think if there's anyone else who suffers this problem that it would be difficult to use a site that literally pains you to look at.
IDK....this whole issue is much more out of hand then it needed to be.
And over something that should have stayed between the 2 original parties.
Im going to bed, fuck all of this...
I seriously can't believe how the fanbase is acting...
Congrats I guess.
(Really, you can NOT tell me you couldn't have seen this coming from a mile away.)
Just wait and see. No one asks you to believe just right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sticXkHxZC4
FLEA
FLEA
FLEA
FLEA
FLEA
yes, look at how much this resolved
you truly are blind as fuck aren't you
I'd understand if a company was to protect their chairman or one of the vital members of the board, but I would not understand a company ruining their PR just to 'defend' a simple manager or such as it's the case in here.
In all due honesty I deem it fairly stupid to accept the loss of a number of important (and unimportant) members of the community just to protect someone who doesn't have any particular set of knowledge, skills or resources to make it of vital importance, and the action of dumping said member would highly improve the image of the website staff in the eyes of the majority; in the end in PR it is not about whether something happened or not, it's about how the company deals with the discontent of its users regarding said event. Why do you often see celebrities dumped out of major events due to their statements, or lower member of staff usually fired or having their career truncated due to their actions? Because it is more important to keep the majority happy than to protect an individual who hurt its own image through its own actions.
But well, I guess it's a lot easier to take bad decisions when everything fixes itself by not-your-own-actions every time.
Again I see a lot of saying and no doing. Things only happen if an imminent problem needs solved. Progress goes back to halt after that.
Person added to staff generates a substantial amount of protest that should call for reconsideration. That won't happen.
TOS rewrites. Again. How many of these have to happen due to them being too ambiguous?
UI update. I can't say that with a straight face.
The shadiness and refusal to let the community help is just diminishing my overall will to stay here, and FA is a "main hub". A low quality hub that just covers itself in more rust.
Choosing someone who is even involved in the rape scene shouldn't even be an option for you guys, not like furries have a bad rep already.
"Oh hey, did you know that one our trusted admins was accused of rape which may or may not be true?"
"Gee, sounds like a safe and reliable site right there"
Also immediately banning people to try any shove this dram under the rug was a HORRID way of dealing with all this. An immature way, for better use of words.
*claps*
Don't bother replying, I'm just so not impressed how all parties are handling this.
I could accuse you of something right now... shouldn't matter... only factual evidence should matter.
Just it stirred up so much bullshit lol
You sociopathic fuck.
If that makes me a "Sociopathic fuck" so be it. Guess who's sitting here in the end not getting mixed up in a big hooplah about nothing that concerns me. this guy.
I support you guys a long with a lot of the people who watch me, I am never gonna leave here unless this site dies or I die, which ever happens first.
and also, free doesn't mean there's no cost associated with this site either, people donate tons of money because they care enough about keeping this site alive and rely on it to do commissions and keep in touch with people and whenever it goes down (which is far too common if you ask me) it significantly affects how artist do their business and get justifiably angry when they realized that the money they've donated is not being used productively because of the staff's
>incompetence
>frivolous spending on constant new hardware to fix problems that wouldn't happen if the site was coded better
>outright refusal of help by users with programming experience who were more then willing to spend their free time fixing a site for the community
>leaving their userbase in the dark about serious issues plaguing the site
in fact i had a friend who was suppose to help fix this site, he and a buddy of his had a mock up that was well-received because it was based off of feedback from the community and were pretty far ahead with it till it was thrown out by the staff in favor of... that one guy (and he was quiet rude and extremely unprofessional from what i can recall) and forced them to quit so they can work on this new Project Phoenix on there own, without much community involvement
so yeah, keep complaining how ungrateful we are for this "free" site, cause good forbid i'm not ranting because i use to care about this site or anything
I know this site runs off of donations and ad revenue, this is a well known fact.
No need to throw a tantrum like a child and leave huge amounts of text when ever possible.
Other then being extremely irritated that you are responding to me for no reason, I do respect your opinion and your insight of the goings on, does not change mine and how thankful I am for this place.
Complaining much as you can to everyone you can does nothing, again if you do not like FA leave, good luck where ever you decide to go (guessing Weasyl, read enough damn journals about it)
Hell I'm surprised no comments haven't gotten hidden by administration yet.
Also you continue to say Zaush cases are rumors but what do you say about his vile rape jokes he made on twitter? Are you going to tell us that he was hacked or someone forged it? I seen those actual tweets along with other people with my own eyes before people started to cap them.
C:
a·pol·o·gist
A person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial.
Though I thought that definition just meant you were thinking objectively about the facts given. XD
NNNNGGGGHHHhh!!!
If you have EVER been raped, please call your local authorities or the rape hotline. Here is the number to the National Sexual Assault Hotline: 1-800-656-HOPE
In America, there is a justice system established to solve these problems. It is not the responsibility of an online community to crucify someone on hearsay.
This website is really helpful for finding help: http://www.rainn.org/
This one explains the laws behind rape: http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/08/sr/state...../summary.shtml
I am not posting this as a furry, I'm posting this as a human being. A male sitting on his couch in his pajamas watching "The Mind of a Chef"
Aside from just encouraging people to head directly to the authorities, we must really also offer them a shoulder to lean on, someone to confide in, and an encouraging push to survive after such a traumatic event. Not everyone that is raped can really run to the authorities because of the way this country treats the offense. They are scared of being blamed, or called liars, and being disconnected from people they trusted and thought would help them.
(wtf why is there a banner about nothing but Princess Peach on a furry site? O.o /offtopic)
And a lot of people affected by these situations are unable to refocus on their daily life because they haven't had someone there for them.
I only ask for a little common courtesy, from as many people as possible. So many people here have forgotten the "golden rule".
When it comes to ANY crime in ANY country, the first thing to do is report the crime, whether or not you're scare doesn't matter in REPORTING it, if you fear for you life reporting the crime, let the cops know and they CAN, and hopefully WILL put you into protective custody. If you don't report a crime, no one can do anything but TALK about it, END....OF....STORY.
I appreciate the feedback on my post.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...../rape/rapemain
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti.....nviction-rates
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn.....isleading.html
Why the media continually lies about these numbers is beyond me, as the truth would encourage more woman to report these attacks.
Your choice to take this seriously or not, just thought this was an interesting read.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fdluc02.pdf page 6 under sentencing says (and i should point out that for some interesting reason the rainn site that created this figure does not actually cite the page of their source, which is a pretty big red flag that they dont want people checking.
"A large majority of robbery (73%) and rape (64%) convictions also resulted in prison sentences. Nearly all
convicted defendants who did not receive an incarceration sentence were placed on probation."
so this means that there is a 61% discrepancy in the figure you site and the source that rainn it self uses, 64% spent time in jail and "nearly all" of the others that did not were placed on probation, as opposed to the only "3% of all rapists receive punishment" that Rainn cites. http://www.rainn.org/news-room/97-o.....-no-punishment
Im not even against using the number of unreported rapes to add into that figure to give a lower number then 64% but I;ve yet to find how they actually find out and prove the figure for unreported rapes that they so earnestly use.
In fact by the very own report that Rainn sites for that figure we see that rape is has one of the higher conviction and jail sentencing rates out of a number of criminal offenses
http://i.imgur.com/oIiIRO5.png
I looked through all of the cited report by rainn. the first 40 or so pages are statistic on how often people are convicted for what crime, the ages and race of the those people, how often they get bail, how often each type of crime went to trail etc. and the last 10 pages were the methodology ( how they collected and analyzed their data) but no where did i find any mention of the 3% that rainn claims this 54 page paper supports, which does not surprise me since they did not bother to actually cite a particular page.
If ANYONE can tell me how exactly this 3% figure is supported, I;d really like to know, are they just subtracting all the unreported rapes from the actual 64% figure? And if so how well is their methodology to determine how many unreported rapes there actually are, because that is a figures that is easy to manipulate if its done by self reporting. To BE CLEAR I have no position on this whole rape situation thing, but i do hold the position we should use actual good statistics if we are going to argue anything.
These are the UCR that the FBI publishes every year. I cannot find the conviction rate but this is still an interesting find. Again this is only reported rape.
I was a child. 13 years old a man came into my mother's house and molested my sister and I.
I went into court and because they put so much pressure on me, belittled me, I caved in. I sat there and said nothing happened in court just so I could go home and just forget everything. And because I did that, another little girl got victimized. I still think about this often, and cry, I was never able to forget anything. I'm 31 years old and I can't forget. But you know what? It's not my fault. It's that asshole's fault as well as the system that would rather blame the victim.
Think about all the rapes that are happening where the victim gets told it's their fault, get harassed, etc. Is it worth the trauma over and over? Until shit changes, sadly a lot of rapes will go unreported. I have nothing but admiration for those strong enough to go though it all. But the truth is, a lot of us aren't. And basing everything on "oh well they didn't report it" is stupid, sorry.
The RAINN is there to help people who need it. They can help them find safe spaces and people that can provide support. The whole point of this is there are options.
I was just sayin' to anyone that happened to read.
I apologize if I that sounded like I was getting frustrated. I just don't like seeing people drop into a spiral of hopelessness when there are options they could do.
There's a reason people are flocking to other sites now, and I expect this journal to only add another valid reason for them to do so.
The only reason I'm still on this site is because there are a few artists on here who haven't moved over to other sites yet. That's your only saving grace.
Furaffinity's current layout is not at fault. The backend getting overloaded and therefore making a simple and fast-loading system a horribly slow slug to work with is. The layout is not the problem and it looks like Project Phoenix is going to be damaging a lot more than it will fix. But time will tell on that.
When half your userbase puts up a vote of no-confidence to one of your staff members, no matter how much you may be buddies with them, get rid of them for your userbase's sake. Rapist or no, Zaush is not someone who inspires confidence in the userbase and people are actively avoiding this site because of his relation with it.
Whether one can prove the allegations were true or not, he responded to them in horrendous fashion-- really did himself no favors, no one on staff did-- and keeping him on staff, after he's churned the waters and made many users literally flee the site in their discomfort, is a terrible move.
It's great that you have your buddy's back, but it's really sad that the admins don't care enough about the comfort of their userbase-- or the number, for that matter-- to make better staffing decision.
On another note, whether or not the other coding team was a part of the staff, the fact that they were given the thumbs up for their project-- and then dumped at nearest convenience-- is a shady move at best.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/12559969/
Just as I expected. I must be psychic. :I
Don't mind me, I got bored and copy/pasted something that I thought was funny
My name is John, and I hate every single one of you. All of you are fat, retarded, no-lifes who spend every second of their day looking at stupid ass pictures. You are everything bad in the world. Honestly, have any of you ever gotten any pussy? I mean, I guess it’s fun making fun of people because of your own insecurities, but you all take to a whole new level. This is even worse than jerking off to pictures on facebook.
Don’t be a stranger. Just hit me with your best shot. I’m pretty much perfect. I was captain of the football team, and starter on my basketball team. What sports do you play, other than “jack off to naked drawn Japanese people”? I also get straight A’s, and have a banging hot girlfriend (She just blew me; Shit was SO cash). You are all faggots who should just kill yourselves. Thanks for listening.
Pic Related: It’s me and my bitch
As for leaving? Nah. Every fandom has its drama. There's no such thing as a drama free fandom.
Those of you who thought the fandom was "safe," seriously? How naive. NO FAN BASE CULTURE IS "SAFE!" Participate at your own risk. Creeps are everywhere! Guard yourselves! No one else will protect you.
Nuff said.
Good luck on the revamp or whatever.
~RJM
- Those of you who thought the fandom was "safe," seriously? How naive. NO FAN BASE CULTURE IS "SAFE!" Participate at your own risk. Creeps are everywhere! Guard yourselves! No one else will protect you. -
So few people seem to realize this! Every fandom will have its shitheads who make them look bad. Same thing on the drama...
Sure, I understand not WANTING to fire your friend because of past things. But Public Relations is PR- which is something no one on staff knows or cares about.
This was your last chance. I refuse to continue having any sort of connection with a site as shameful as this. Count me among those you've lost to more professional sites- sites with GOOD standing.
I wash my paws of this mess. I'm gone.
P.S.: Call me when the Phoenix rises PURE.
This entire situation just reminds me of the Duck Dynasty bullshit that went down recently. A man publicly badmouthed a HUGE group of people-- but was given the a-okay after the company behind the show realized "Oh, our blind and faithful fans that give us a shitpot full of profit over this show are angry and we are losing money. Time to dump morals for ease."
Good Idea: Having capable, well respected members in your staff.
Why: Puts newcomers and parents at ease knowing sites are run by kind, top-notch people.
Bad Idea: Having shady characters with questionable histories in your staff.
Why: People often jump to conclusions even if nothing really happened. Best to not even let it become an issue by NOT having these kinds of people run your site.
THAT is PR. If you think this site's public relations is fine, you are blind.
lol wut?
LOL manners?
Alright. Admittedly, I had come up with somewhat of a conclusion in my mind, though I chose to focus on PR, which is the overall factor of my leaving. But, I read your journal because I didn't want to come off as biased. If what you're saying is true, then I do see why it has turned out the way it has. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised considering the mindset of victims of relationship abuse (her & ex).
That said, I still don't believe you should be on the development team for Project Phoenix. I'm sorry, Zaush, but you're too much of a hot button topic right now. When Dr. Phil aires his furry show, people are going to get online, find that FA is the biggest furry site, and see that you, an accused rapist, and a dog molester (Chase?) are on some sort of "staff". They're not going to care about what you're actually in charge of- just that you are in charge of something. Your reputation as a person has been stained because of this and people aren't going to trust you for a long time. So long as you and the dog molester are in charge of anything on FA, I can't allow myself to be part of the horrible PR that's going to follow.
I will, however, refollow you on Weasyl. There's no reason I can't allow myself to see your art- and you're safer there, as a member only.
Even if nothing does get done and the future I foresee for the fandom does happen, I may return after it dies down in a few years and the community starts to recover. But that remains to be seen.
Anyway. See you on Weasyl.
Your icon says you moved to Weasyl, so stop posting here and drama-mongering.
You are going to go? then go.
See ya.
(Bet I will see you post again)
dang, you are mean all over the journal :(
Yes, I know you're not a mean person. I was just surprised, that's all! i shouldn't even have said anything, i'm not exactly helping here.
i waited a little while before checking this journal out, since the last ones upset me. ottergryphs should never be neglected! see ya'll at FWA if you end up there.
wich is to say, absolutely nothing.
Talk about digging a hole and not having a ladder to get out of it.
seriously...What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
I'm a victim of shit and you know what, Authorities dealt wit it. If you don't get authorities involved and instead just gripe about it online, your own fault and shame on you.
Good Idea: Having capable, well respected members in your staff.
Why: Puts newcomers and parents at ease knowing sites are run by kind, top-notch people.
Bad Idea: Having shady characters with questionable histories in your staff.
Why: People often jump to conclusions even if nothing really happened. Best to not even let it become an issue by NOT having these kinds of people run your site.
The More You Know ~*
a.) Disowned teen furries
b.) Parental-Blocked Furry sites (less traffic on sites)
c.) Falling number of Con participants
Anybody that takes that fraud seriously needs to seek real help. When you have family members saying hes a con artist, shit just got real. I have seen numerous stuff from him, and he's the biggest fake of them all
If anything, he's more shock factor and less fact based. You try to bring in any sane person to him, and he'll go after the super emotionally unstable ones for ratings/views. While it can be funny to see people go at each other and brawl with the audience, a certain person said here earlier that people need to think twice before going onto a show like that
Still, I can't help feeling at least a little depressed. It's sad to see that SO MANY people are just out right frauds.
He believes all the hogwash about all furries being animal fuckers that media put out there.. so ya
But, that aside, I still think in general it is good to ensure that your USERS-- not (just) their parents-- would feel safe on the site.
Agreed, of course.
But, oh man yeah. If the phrase "A staff member on FA was accused of rape" (or molesting a dog, in the case of another staff member) ever hit my parents' ears with them knowing I peruse the site, they'd definitely hop into that conversation in a heartbeat.
And, actually, it's been admitted by both Dragoneer and Zaush that there was at least coercion (screenshots available off-site somewhere, but I didn't bookmark them because I have no foresight). Wether that falls under "rape" or not is up to the beholder, really.
Not that I'm saying we should be TELLING someone what kind of rape happened, but, like I said, someone always has an opinion. Coercion, to ME, being the ONLY gray area, should be decided by the victim wether or not to consider it rape. But I think we're getting off subject here.
As sensible as your preference is, it's really not possible with every situation and issue, so it's actually illogical to stand on it. While I'm not at all bashing peoples' decision to stay, I simply find it... risky to do so.
As past (and present) situations have taught us, there's really no helping this site until Dragoneer LETS us help. He's not. So it's up to him alone to deal with trying to keep his site afloat. The desisions he's made reflect poorly on the furry community and I simply refuse to be part of a site that allows shady people to participate as staff or designers.
And if my situation was brought up in order to drum up ill will against any of the men involved, I'd be absolutely livid.
To be honest that has fully calmed me down too...
Quite a bit stupid people here around wll always continue heating the shitstorm (at least till the beginning of next week, I asume x3 ) and distrusting in everything because they clearly are not able to rethink about anything.
In a free country it's their right to do so probably, lol. I and hopefully most other FA users will just ignore you :)
Staff and everyone else: Don't let those issues bring you down! FA is a good site and it deserves to be kept up and worked on :)
Just my little two cents c: And no, this time I don't want any sitelong discusion because it's honestly hopeless :(
this crap adresses nothing i havent already seen promised again and again, nothing new will ever happen here till management switches over. the project is laughably in the hands of an infant coder. we will be stuck with this fa as it is most likely intended because our current glorious leeder is afraid of change and fights it by promising change just to keep things stable.
staff needs to do more competent work than what they have been doing and you cant pull the "but we are a site that runs on donations".
every time this site goes down or needs new thousand dollar hardware the site gets more than what it should from free users.
Check those two statements carefully. They contradict one another.
Additionally, Zaush has had allegations against him, that you were fully aware of, before those notes were leaked as of 2010. Regardless of whether or not those allegations are true, you knowingly brought him onto the team. While it could be argued that you reviewed the situation carefully, the actions made made by FA staff both on and off-site regarding the fallout suggest otherwise. I really do not get the impression that his skills vs reputation were taken into account. That his credibility was considered at all. So how has all that fresh air been smelling these past few days?
Even this post, made to clarify things, doesn't really change or illuminate upon any of what has been said elsewhere. Except to folk who didn't know there was drama. And now they do :)
That said, I wish you luck in 2014. Things are rough for you, and I hope you can redeem yourself - not just in the eyes of the people, but possibly in your own eyes as well, if need be.
Think about it... You get raped by a guy and you decide the proper thing to do is try to get the guy banned from a furry website? Rather than going to the police?
Yea that sounds legit. :p
Now, I have no idea where this occured, but I did find this little gem from Wikepedia which outlines what sexual assault is in Texas. I'm in Canada, and I know what is considered sexual assault in Canada, but I had to do some research for the U.S.A.
Penal Code, Sec. 22.011.(a) creates the offence of sexual assault. It reads:
(a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) intentionally or knowingly:
(A) causes the penetration of the anus or sexual organ of another person by any means, without that person's consent;
I shortened it a tad, but going on the information I have currently gathered, what he did, if he did it, is punishable by law.
The fuck is wrong with you?
Yawn.
I sometimes think the banning of cub porn might cause a larger loss in artist then this.
With more promises that will run on ValvE time and will probably never see the light of day.
Good luck, I guess.
The staff have an obligation to progress the site and cannot realistically please everyone. At its core, people are just running around yelling with their arms flailing in the air. On both sides. If you entered a room, and everyone was doing that, what would you do? And then answer that same question if for some reason it was your house during a party and you stepped out to get some snacks. Nevermind how much sense those questions make, the point is to think about it, because sometimes it's interesting to just think about the what-ifs of odd situations. :3
As for people being scared, I personally haven't seen anything to be scared of other than the overly-passionate userbase that seems to dislike separating emotion from perception. :( There's been some scary commenters on both sides here. And meanwhile, at its core, it feels no different from the usual relationship drama I've seen locally. |3
And while the staff of a site cannot please everyone, they damn well have a responsibility to ensure that the site is not just progressing-- but that it is safe for its users, and that the users feel comfortable. They have done no such thing and, even though a large portion of their userbase has literally jumped ship over current affairs, continue to stick with their poor judgement.
There is plenty to be scared with when a site cares little for the quality of its staff.
Number of people who can do anything about it: A dozen. Maybe.
Too much incoming information, too many people without the insight of the backworkings, you're asking for the impossible and assuming the worst. Please, for all of us, be less emotional and more objective. Remember that all the information being posted is subjective and that people are also not flawless.
"Before finding fault in others, first become aware of the faults in yourself."
A large portion? Nah more like bringing the population back in line before the 13 - 15 year olds from a few years ago became of age to look at smut.
Pretending that the userbase do not have any say in any matter literally ruins the purpose of a social site. We are not "entitled" to anything, but we damn sure have a say if we stick around.
Actually, many of the artists I have seen leaving are good people. Good people, good artists, and no one worth slandering.
>says they are leaving FA for a 'better site'
>Still commenting on FA about this 'drama'
>le greentext
And stop doing 'this' to make light of serious concerns.
Please. Try. Force me to actually stop doing something over the internet.
Since you're leaving FA, can I have your loot?
I hope I get to a lifeboat fast!
I've been on this site for awhile now. And there has always been these empty promises tossed our way like bones to keep us satiated. I apologize, but slapping a new name on a decade old project does not fill me with new hope for it. Talk is cheap. Saying you're going to do things differently is easy. It's actually following suit that matters. And, due to you're past history, I honestly don't think you guys have it in you to do that.
If I had to take a guess, I foresee maybe a month, two months tops if I'm being generous, where the administration will actually be on the ball with this project. Then a sharp decline as the petty infighting that has historically plagued the FA staff breaks out again. The new admins will leave or be fired, and we'll be stuck with the same clowns as we've always have. You know the saying. "Bad habits die hard" or "you can't teach an old dog new tricks."
During this past weeks PR nightmare, I think we've all seen some pretty fucked up things happen. People have received death threats for where they stood on this issue, for wanting to leave, for wanting to stay. People arguing over what is and isn't considered rape. Old drama being brought up again. Two fairly known musicians were recently outed for having committed rape. I can only imagine how Kyle feels. Sorry I was mean to you before Kyle. Not many people came out of this one clean.
One thing I especially noticed was that some people were belittling artists who decided that they wanted to leave or crosspost their work to other sites. Hell, I saw artists belittling other artists for it. Guys, it's not a bandwagon to want to promote yourself at different places. Especially with this being a full time job for some of you.
My personal thoughts about this fiasco? What where they honestly thinking. Anyone, and everyone could see this coming from miles away. I saw it coming when the news broke over on the forums. Was it really worth it? I personally don't think so. A lot of great artists where chased of this site. New users were scared off. Any the community distrusts the administration just that much more. Any coder would have really done honestly. Hell, they already had some guys working on it. What could have been awesome news that some actual progress was possibly going to take place was overshadowed by the rumors and accusations that surround this one guy. The whole thing was very poorly handled.
You've given yourself a whole year. That's a lot of time to deliver on your promises. But remember, it's just going to make the sting that much worse if you fail.
Couldn't have been that bad, I heard and saw none of it. Only found out something was happening from others saying there was something, still never say any of it directly myself.
(And better for those who dislike skittles? idk.)
But I'll stay in a positive state of mind and hope for the best. I'm not here for the decisions of the staff (though I don't agree with some of them) or how the website works. I'm here to be a part of this wonderfully creative bunch of individuals who bring joy and awesomeness to my rather bleak and boring life. This is still the most populated site of the fandom and this is where most of the community lies and I don't wanna exclude myself form the majority of the furry community due to some superficial drama.
Maybe just like the Phoenix that the project is named after. Maybe this is just the thing we need. Maybe in order to move on to the better FA, the current FA must burn up in flames before arising from the ashes, brand new and improved.
As they say, ignorance is bliss (referring to nobody in particular.)
second give the possibility to people to defend themselves against stalkers, creepy and assholes. Instead of ban them cause they're tagerting someone. We're not in a MLP world and not everyone is nice, stop make yourself illusions
third, give a real security to the website. Anyone with some training can have acces to the database and all. That's why the site shutdown sometimes
And your statement that the site "shuts down" as a result of database access is wholly inaccurate. There has never been a complete database compromise on this site to my knowledge.
and LOL! A friend show me the database by accessing it and he's not an expert in. Do you really think they will say "oh someone made the site crash by accessing everything" ?
So his answer may be true about not knowing anything about it. Kind of worthless answer in my eyes. PR should be dealt with by someone that's here for far longer than that.
Tobias: I've read your posts in this discussion. Folks who think sites don't need morals aren't even worth talking to. Have a good day.
I don't like looking just at the past, however, I think sometimes a fresh mind and new ideas can do a lot of good when it comes to staffing a site, especially in a role like mine.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
Be a good citizen, help me secure FA.
Yeah. Nah.
On a more serious note, I've seen that you can still get banned for venting about a situation involving users without naming them while other posters don't. Probably doesn't help when a representing moderator insults a user behind their back either.
My point: If the Terms of Service are to be enforced and promptly incorporated, don't use them 20% of the time.
Its nice to see the owners finally getting serious about doing something to fix the long standing DB design issues, but I'm hoping they don't end up ruining the parts of FA that do work well and have been, IMO, been the reason why FA became the defacto furry art site.
If the admins end up carrying things through to rollout of something that's truly something good and that's not joking mess of lost functionality and shit-awful browsing, I'll seriously consider supporting FA with large donations of actual good hardware.
I hold no expectations, otherwise disappointment can be too distressing. Though I will hope for the best.
(lol, Phoenix was the name of a Secondlife viewer project I worked on, which was used by over half of grid till it was outmoded by its replacement, Firestorm.)
And now you tell me about Firestorm... I like that name.
And how does that in anyway pertain negativity towards users jumping ship, as you felt the need to comment upon at first?
Apathy is never a good route to handling any issue that deals strongly with morals, so I believe I will keep my emotions as stand, thank you very much.
As for recruitment, maybe consider hiring a big bunch of people to only deal with trouble tickets and nothing else. I know personally I dont even bother using trouble tickets anymore when I see people doing stuff wrong. Waiting months to be told 'the user isnt doing it anymore' isnt really fantastic. Having strict rules for your admin would also be a good idea. If said admin isnt following the rules maybe you guys should sit down, review them and give them a warning/fire them.
And for the TOS, maybe dumbing it down would be a fantastic idea with examples of what not to post slotted in.
We're in the early stages of development at this point, and I don't entirely want to offer a full timetable right now. That said, we'll be keeping the community updated on a regular basis on our progress so you guys can follow along as we move along!
And I must thank you for taking the time to answer questions here. It's nice to see comments being directly addressed, and I appreciate your effort in doing so. I'm sure this entire series of events has been rather hectic on the staff, particularly for staff members that may not be directly involved with any previously made accusations or concerns.
And thanks for your kind words. It's definitely been a hectic time, but I'm hoping we can learn from this experience and come out the other side stronger. It's all I can really ask for.
Yeah, I think that's the best anyone can hope for with this latest post. :I
Also the T-54 should be a tier 10 and the T62 should be tier 9.
Nerf Warlocks they are still OP.
IRL MMO has removed the infinite chocolate glitch. Please bring it back chocolate is expensive.
Master Yi is still OP as well, moves too fast.
Sonic the Hedgehog porn is an officially licensed product.
Justin Beiber to be deported.
Obamacare is not actually caring about what it does.
Meanbearpig was recently spotted.
The Devs upstairs have reworked the how much money I got system.
The highscores are broken. A chewy vulpine still remains at top for the FA shitstorm high score.
Wasn't this done about 5 times already? How much more simplified do people need it to be to understand it? hahaha...seriously...though, it was simplified so many times now...why again?
Also, looking forward to what you guys come up with for the revamp. Sticking by you 100% :) Thanks for all the hard work you do for us
Don't be that index finger.
about Trouble Tickets "Once this is complete, we will begin recruiting new administrative staff" thank you
If you are going to fix the site, then fix it.
If you are going to make the trouble ticket system work, then get it working.
For years now there has been plenty of talk on these and other issues. This talk has been going on longer than the Edmonton Oilers rebuild (I raise this comparison, because the Oilers owner just released a letter to the fans doing what this journal did, lots of talk and asking for patience).
There has been too many years of talk, but no actions to back it up. If you truly want to be transparent, tell us the game plan for the site. What are the specific things you want to see, that will improve the site? Don't throw it back at us with double-talk and ask us what we want. Tell us what your exact vision is, what straigies do you have in place to ensure success. Do you have a vision statement for this site overhaul? Is there a plan in place with a time frame to go with it?
You want my patience, yet again? What reasons do you have for me to give you my patience? I have given you my patience for years and nothing has changed.
If you want my patience you need to earn it. Give me the vision you have planned so that I can share in watching its creation. Give me a time line so that I have something to look forward to (also having a set date for something helps in ensuring the goal is met).
I am not expecting miracles, it's a staff of volunteers, crap happens. If crap does happen, then tell us right away. Perhaps a solution is right here with one of your fantastic watchers.
If we didn't want this website to be successful we wouldn't still be here. We, as a community, have high expectations. This is not a bad thing, it means we push ourselves to become better and strive to be more than what others may think we are. Share with us what will be happening in the coming days, weeks and months. We want to be apart of what makes this site our online home. We want to be involved because we give a damn.
So, what say you?
We plan on sharing the development process with you all, updating you as we continue to work on it, hearing your feedback and taking it into account. We plan on updating you if we hit a roadbump and finding solutions together.
High expectations are a good thing, I'm by no means a perfectionist (because then nothing would get done) but I hold myself to high standards and I plan on, in my responsibilities, holding Fur Affinity to those high standards as well.
So I say that you're right, at this point I, and we, haven't earned your patience back yet. But I hope that we will soon.
You have willpower stronger than steel, my friend
This is me telling you that it is completely idiotic to compare complaints on the internet to real world events. I bet there is at least ten military personnel that read your comment and just sat their shaking their head in disapproval. Don't compare our troops to your complaints, it just makes that more of a negative impression.
Sure there is worse things in the world happening and it sucks to be the guys those bad things are happening to. It is still foolish to think that it makes this situation any better.
Pick a little talk a little
Cheep cheep cheep
Talk a lot pick a little more
The fandom has spent way too many years trying to defend the fandom against outside sayings of how furries are sick fucks who screw animals, are pedophiles, and are rapists. People keep saying "not EVERYONE in the fandom is like that/I'm not like that!". But these vile people came into this overly open, non-defined fandom, and instead of being pointed out and shamed, people shrug it of and say "how does this effect ME?/it's none of MY business". Now look. You have a huge ass chunk of the fandom filled with despicable people, some of the worst even owning and running this site. And it seems that the people who stick up for this site don't even care about the assholes that stand next to them on here. Thus perpetuating fandom rot. The people who are so damn blindly willing to stay here really seem to miss the point of things too. This site has been behind the times for YEARS and is a piece of shit. But admit it. You don't care about the quality of the site. You don't care how it's run or with what people. You don't even care that artists want to branch out and go to other places and might end up losing business because you won't follow. You don't fucking care about the fandom as a people. All you care about this stupid ass site and your pictures and RP contacts. Thank you for proving the furry fandom has a lot of horrible people in it. Let's see you defend the fandom when people can look all over this site and see all the shit that's come from this event and all the people hugboxing/circlejerking Furaffinity.
Part of me thinks he bought his way unto adminahip.
Wrong, so many people are saying it's unproven and refuse to side with with either side until they have information that proves one way or the other.
> There are SO many people outright saying things like "fuck women I hate them/once again some stupid whore stirs up trouble" to sum up what the problem is....
Actually, there hasn't been on this journal post. But feel free to link all the 'so many' posts if you wish to prove me wrong.
Exactly. Like I said, "it wasn't rape as there was no trial". Unless you are expecting a Time CSI to come out with video footage, people ONLY want evidence of there being a police report and/or conviction to judge. But never mind, let's just ignore all the things Dragoneer has said [X] [X] [X] [X] In fact, let's ignore EVERYTHING that is ever gathered up [X] Because hey, instead of reading words and seeing how people react, no, fuck putting two and two together and making our own judgements. Let's just cry "no conviction/no crime". All that shit that was screen capped from being said and released back in '10? Naaaaaw let's not read any of that or anything. Let's just hope that our magical flawless "bad guys are always eye patch wearing thugs that make crime meters go beep when they're near by and we always report crimes the second they happen to us and the hurtful people always get thrown in jail" judicial system pulls through and says if someone did something bad or not. You know, just like the Trayvon/Zimmerman case! I mean that had SO much evidence of what was going on and that case was handled so well! *vomits*
Actually, there hasn't been on(e?) journal post.
[Boom]. I didn't have the time to screen cap three other journals I ran into (two having similar topics, one just having a disgusting mysoginistic person spewing trash and flooding the journal) before they got deleted. Again, you have so many people on this site blindly defending it (sadly a bunch of new people to the fandom/site), and they don't read what's in front of them nor tell their fellow FA supporters to not act like the stereotypical gross furries that outsiders of the fandom accuse furries of being.
You'd think that with THIS many people up in arms and not being with okay with what's going on and how things are handled, people even staying and siding with FA would wonder "wow, the fandom is tearing into two huge groups. I WONDER IF THIS IS AN ACTUAL CONCERN AND A BIG THING HERE"". But nope. Too many people brushing that under the rug (like with the other shit that happens here) and say "oh they'll be back next week".
Of course, and it is probably because they don't feel they are in the right position to judge on the poor evidence provided or have the investigative powers that the law has to go further.
> But never mind, let's just ignore all the things Dragoneer has said
Yeah, I'm seeing a guy that doesn't really know what happened, can't even read his notes properly. I don't know what you're expecting me or anyone else to take from that beyond the fact that Dragoneer doesn't appear to be doing anything out of malicious actions (he appears to be like a version of Inspector Jacques Clouseau, except not so good at solving crimes).
> Let's just cry "no conviction/no crime"
I'm on the fence on the issue, what I am against is people claiming something as if it did happen and they have nothing that undeniably backs it up. No convictions, no court cases, no decent evidence, nothing. I am completely fine with people saying "potentially a rapist, but unproven".
Calling someone a "rapist" that you don't actually /know/ really did it, means that you are trying to bring back witch-hunts in a different form. Personally, I found the witch craft trials obscene and this is escalating in very much the same way.
> All that shit that was screen capped from being said and released back in '10? Naaaaaw let's not read any of that or anything.
I read it back then, I don't remember seeing conclusive evidence that showed the events really happened, even with the 'deleted evidence'.
> Actually, there hasn't been on(e?) journal post.
I said:
Actually, there hasn't been on this journal post.
...
I am referring to people's comments on this journal post. You would think if there was so many people with such a thought, there would be "a lot" here, right?
> Too many people brushing that under the rug (like with the other shit that happens here) and say "oh they'll be back next week".
I've seen a few of those, but not the overwhelming majority. I can also understand from some people's perspective that this 'another drama', since this site is so prone to people protesting so much. It doesn't help that there is no conclusive evidence showing that it happened, which only reinforces that it's "probably furry drama".
I wouldn't say that, I would say what I would say now. Notes aren't evidence of the act.
FA doesn't make money based off traffic. The donations for this month is $10.00, source: http://donations.furaffinity.net/
I'll give Charkonian his $10.00 back if it is such an issue.
Just watch, go ahead and continue with your shitty "I'm leaving" journals, expecting people to care, and then later on when the site does get updated and you come flooding back from weasyl saying "i regret everything" I will remember this moment, scoff in your face, and shove a block of cocaine up thy ass.
Seriously people, this matter is none of YOUR business, stop trying to be the Internet Police. Again, no one else but the victim can do something, does it sound cruel that I really don't fucking care? Good, because I don't, it's not my problem. I come here for art, friends, and other shit, not to witch hunt. So to all those starting their shit about Zaush and ruining the site for the rest of us, gg cry more.
If YOU don't care so much, why did you write a goddamn essay?
I wouldn't trust an alleged rapist with my personal data.
Why would they censor things en masses as damage control? No matter how you look at it, it's unprofessional all around.
Because somehow I'm gay right. I wrote an essay because I felt like it and was bored, it's called reason, maybe you've heard of it? This isn't twitter, I am not bound by a character limit, and if I want to write my opinion (which is pretty short in my standards) I can. Why didn't you TL;DR on it and just fuck off? Lol. I also never said I didn't care about the situation with the site coding, just that I didn't care for the rape accusation because of lack of evidence and as such it's just beating a dead body with a crow bar and expecting results. This ain't Law & Order with you being Olvia and Detective Benson, good sir.
Oh, alleged you say? As in, accused of, not proven. He's coding the site, and if you dislike it then leave. I too would censor things en masses as damage control as well because quite frankly this form of Witch Hunting is retarded all around. It's not a conspiracy it's just a matter of "could you fucking not ruin the site for others with bullshit that's old?" Also, who says I am giving up my rights because I find this sack of shit to be rather amusing? And finally what's with the insults bro, it's hurting me in the brain because I detect autism from you.
qq plz.
Talk to me when you have words worth substance.
I wouldn't trust an alleged rapist with my personal data.
Why would you do that on the internet to begin with? rofl
This guy's always the downer of the party, though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJdsayraI4s
I'm sorry but since when does date I joined matter? I've been here long enough, and yes good sir I am quite aware of the analogy being bad, had you looked at an above comment you would have known.
Now please go back to sucking your thumb or what ever the hell you were doing before you decided to skim everything else and put this idiotic comment here.
I do know what's going on, I do understand the level. And I did read what the fuck happened, and I really don't give a shit except for potential site upgrades. oh my do I sense anger? Sorry, but I don't flock like sheep with this bullshit, I am aware of all the times shit was promised and it never came, but even so the admins deserve a chance and I am giving it to them. And there is no thing as a stupid contribution, nor opinion, just stupid people and I am pretty sure being a veterinary technician means I am not stupid. So again thanks for more attempts to either insult or look bigger than me. You started the insults, so deal with that. And I will go suck my dick because it's big enough for me to.
QQ more.
I don't flock like sheep
but even so the admins deserve a chance
I'm pretty sure being a veterinary technician means I'm not stupid
I will go suck my dick because it's big enough for me to
[stupid meme ending line]
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE
Also, not everybody makes rape jokes. Bad people make rape jokes.
Tell me sir, do you like mudkipz?
Our primary goal in 2014 is to give a breath of fresh air to the site, the administration, and the community. Over the course of the next twelve months, we plan on overhauling many aspects of the site, as we have started recently by improving transparency and openness with the community.
Like that whole ‘hiring Zaush’ thing. Totally transparent hire there, right?
Over the last several days there have been a number of concerns raised by members of the community, and we wanted to address them in an open format for community review and discussion. Your feedback continues to be important to us as we grow and change, and we look forward to reading it.
The real question, before I get to the rest of this: will you actually listen to the community this time?
We apologize for the delay in posting this article, however we had to come together as a team to ensure that all parties were on the same page as we approached the community.
‘We all had to get our stories straight.’ Yeah, that doesn’t instill confidence in me.
At the moment, we understand that there’s a lot of concern with the consistency of moderation, as well as the time taken to respond to Trouble Tickets. Over the next few months, we hope to tackle these issues using a multi-pronged approach.
I’ve heard that shallow promise before.
First, we plan on eliminating much of the ambiguity that currently exists within the Terms of Service and other policy documents on the site. We will be rewriting, condensing, and simplifying many aspects of the rules in order to make them clearer and easier to understand for the community.
I’ve heard that one before, too. (This’ll make, what, the sixth or seventh major ‘re-write’ of the AUP/TOS within the past three years alone?)
we will begin recruiting new administrative staff. This will include new staff to help with Trouble Tickets, as well as staff to assist in site moderation. We hope to include new procedures and guidelines for training staff that will help to ensure consistency, clarity, and a more positive experience.
Aaaaaaaand we have another promise from the past raised again.
By improving clarity, training, and bringing on additional team members, we can work to lower ticket wait times in a consistent and sustainable manner.
Some rumors have circulated regarding a team of coders working on a new version of the site prior to the announcement of Phoenix. While they did ask permission to help, they were not a part of site staff and were working independently on their own project. They were not in communication with site staff, nor involved in site developments.
You would’ve saved yourselves a lot of trouble by both communicating with this team and bringing this situation up on the main site sooner (rather than letting it fester on the forums).
Additionally, there have been a number of concerns regarding one of our staff members and alleged incidents in his past. Sexual assault is a serious topic, and we encourage anyone who has been a victim of sexual assault to contact authorities or a crisis hotline. We understand the community’s concerns, and we have heard you on this topic. However, there is no criminal background on this topic, nor a violation of Fur Affinity policy, and we cannot make staffing decisions based on allegations alone. We would not knowingly bring someone onto the team with an alleged criminal background without reviewing the situation carefully.
So, rather than rid your team of a member with a trail of controversy surrounding him per the wishes of your (slowly dwindling) community, you keep him on and invite further controversy (not to mention accusations of nepotism/sycophantism in regards to hiring a friend and ‘popufur’ artist).
Initially we hid and removed content that brought up these allegations. Our intention was not to stifle users’ ability to bring up criticisms or discussion, but was intended to ensure discussion stayed within the confines Code of Conduct. We will not remove content related to this issue so long as it remains civil and in line with the Code of Conduct.
This bit sounds good and all, but it also reeks of trying to cure a symptom instead of the underlying disease.
Another concern has related to what staff can access what data. How Fur Affinity collects and handles data, as well as who has access to it, has been subject to a great deal of rumor and speculation over time. Therefore we have started work on a Privacy Policy that will become part of Fur Affinity’s policy documents in the coming weeks. This will outline what data is collected, how it is used to enhance your browsing experience, and how to remove your data from our systems if you wish.
Wait, you just now decided to get around to this? Damn, ’Neer, you need to step your professionalism game up.
As for staff data access, it should be noted that none of the Project Phoenix developers have access to the production database, where user information is securely stored. Nor do they have administrative access on the site. As for user information, anything not publicly accessible is restricted to trusted administrators, some content only allowing specific administrators to see it, and only under certain circumstances. Fur Affinity does not share your data without your permission except under certain circumstances, such as a valid legal request.
...or a note hack. *cough* Jokes aside, this sounds well and good. Kudos.
One concern that has been brought up is the number of old projects we’ve had in the past. We acknowledge that there have been quite a few and we apologize for this, as none came to fruition. Many of these were simply a refresh of the user interface, which often times didn’t pan out due to complications with the site’s existing code that needed to be fixed. Project Phoenix aims to function as a complete transformation of the site, allowing us to rework the user experience as part of a greater whole.
Once again, I bring up the whole ‘empty promises from the past’ thing.
Some have also brought up that they liked old designs better than the new one. We understand, some of them were pretty nice! Unfortunately, a design that looks great for one page won’t always translate well to another, which we found to be the case with our older designs. The way we approached the redesign this time was different, it’s still not final and we’re working on incorporating your feedback, but we can better ensure that it works across our entire application.
‘We want to see if Weasyl does anything else in the next couple of months that we can rip off.’
Our end goal in 2014 is to improve all aspects of the site. Again, we don’t anticipate this will happen overnight and we ask that you be patient with us. These changes will take time and we’ll continue to update you as they are rolled out. Any questions or comments can be directed to this article, and we’ll be responding to them regularly.
Remember when you said you would hold monthly Town Halls? Yeah, I don’t buy this for a hot minute.
You present a decent plate of promises, but considering all the times you and the FA ‘coding’ ‘team’ and ‘moderators’ broke those promises, I can’t swallow any of it. You’ll have to make some real changes if you want to make me believe in your dedication to improving the site.
For starters, you can address the ongoing allegations of ‘popufurs’ and close personal friends of the administration receiving special treatment for which other users would end up suspended or banned.
I mentioned what I thought would make a good statement on the ‘situation’ on your ‘announcing the announcement’ journal. This statement doesn’t come close to hitting the mark; if anything, this statement feels like another round of empty promises which you’ll forget in three months.
Show us results this time, ’Neer. The FA community -- hell, the furry community in general -- deserves better.
I would be concerned, but it's FA staff we're talking about. How much do you think they'd accomplish? Remember when "we're working on folders!" was announced three years ago? Now it's standard on any gallery site....except this one?
IB has an inline "donate to artist" button. Given FA's colorful history, I would NEVER trust them with important things.
me? I'm of 2 minds here; part of me wants to stay and part wants to fuck off to Weasyl (and keep this account somewhat active).
I dunno what to do anymore.
No, it's not. It's GeoCities-level awful when it comes to modern coding/web design standards. Tables are for tabular data, not layout. Anyone who says or thinks otherwise is selling you snake oil.
That is business 101.
Tables are not for layout.
Tables are not for layout.
Tables are not for layout.
I'm going to check on this page on January 1, 2015 and laugh at this statement. That same line has been said for 7 years now, just with the year changed of course. I can't believe the WWE Network is actually starting before this. Now I owe someone $20.
I'll always be around, if you lift the pedo porn ban I might think about it but I doubt I will.
OH wait I wasn't watching any of them lol haha
Also Neer, people can see your twitter, we know the way you approach things and it's not the best. You know what you did and what you think and you are not being entirely honest in this journal. If you want to improve FA you have to improve like a person first, give us a reason to trust you again.
I do know that Dragoneer is advocating a transparency that he is not willing to give, however, and that's what bothers me the most. Public relations are not anywhere near the top of FA's priority list, and that's a big problem for me. I want to see things changed for the userbase, for our comfort and ease, and the format of the site is about third on the list of things necessary to make that happen. Being able to trust the site's administration is first.
Bye, FA.
In b4 the project goes the same way as project Ferrox; requirements for the backend/website as seen from the developer's PoV are (unawarely) leading instead of the requirements wished from the admins/mods' PoV.
It's obvious the voices have been heard here, but it's also obvious that the biggest concern is simply being written off as a 'Yes, we hear you, now do shut up for we don't believe it and we don't care.'
Which, fine. Your site, your rules, your bed to make foul in. Doesn't change the fact that your decisions have been disasters and apparently will continue to be so.
Everyone who cares doesn't want Zaush on this team. Everyone who doesn't care--well, doesn't care! At least, those who will go out of their way to say 'please take him off!' seem to far outnumber any that would say 'please keep him on!' Which, honestly, when it's so one-sided from the community stand point, why is this still being a thing you refuse to do? The only answers to that I can see, is that you value Zaush's opinion over the community's, that you refuse to properly own up, or, that, what? This is easiest? I just don't know.
Which, hey, not saying he's guilty. I won't touch that. But he's obviously NOT the nicest guy, and people have reason to show concern and keep that concern regardless of if your team thinks he's innocent. It... it just looks so bad! It really, really does. More so than, I think, if you were to say 'Hey, so we fully believe Zaush to be innocent of any crime. Any users who henceforth harass or accuse him of this thing, will get their comments/journals hidden, and if continue to do so, will get suspension/banned. That being said, we hear you and understand the vast majority would prefer him off the project. We understand this has been a bit of a nightmare, and we full-heartedly look to rectify it. To quell future concerns and needless drama, we will be removing him from the team at this time.' (Not to mention what transpired between him, Ben, and Myr. /which you also brush over with a meh, not our fault in the slightest)
Boom, everyone's happy (besides Zaush, but hey, one against many?), he still gets protected, and we feel better knowing that a) he's not on the team over more deserving members and b) the staff is willing to make amends when needed and show value for their community.
Which, frankly, I find ridiculous that the only apologies were that this journal was late, and that you haven't followed up on any of your past projects.
Not even a freaking 'We apologize for the stress and concern this decision has caused, but would like to clear it up with...'
Let alone addressing how you suspended/banned users w/o any previous offense or warning and who, honestly, weren't even being that bad with their comments (in comparison to some of the stuff I've seen here NOT get removed). Again, it could have been worded as gingerly as, say, 'We apologize if our response came off in a silencing/censoring manner, as that was not our intention. We are doing our best to protect our community from harassment and will be removing any comments that go against our rules and ToS.'
SIMPLY PUT. An apology goes a long freaking way by itself, and it's just... it's like this whole journal is an attempt to be as soothing as possible, while also trying to cover any wrongs that might have been made.
And, c'mon. When so many users are voicing their unhappiness and leaving/working on leaving... it's OBVIOUS something is wrong. You can't chalk it up to drama, as many of those I see that HAVE left? 100% professional and respectful about it, while also asking to please keep drama AWAY from them.
/huffs
Anyway, I know this comment is falling on deaf ears. I understand sharing this opinion is going to do a whole ton of nothing, but I still feel it's important to share it. I want you to know I do not stand by your decision here. You are isolating a huge group of people, and belittling it and them with how you've decided to handle the entire ordeal. I look forward to the time where I am financially stable to remove myself.
As always, still, thank you for your time.
But for all the people do care about whats going on and how its affecting things, you summed it up pretty damn well.
"We would not knowingly bring someone onto the team with an alleged criminal background without reviewing the situation carefully." - so carefully that, when you did this, you were totally unprepared for the massive shitstorm that opened up. I've seen some PR train wrecks in my lifetime and my field, but this is one of the best/worst. I imagine your idea of "reviewing the situation carefully" involved quite a lot of lube. Well done.
"We will not remove content related to this issue so long as it remains civil and in line with the Code of Conduct." - also hilarious. I mean, well done for removing content that relates to one side of the discussion. It's almost like, when the shitstorm did erupt, your first thought was to try and suppress it, because apparently none of you have heard of the Streisand effect and its ilk. Big tick, guys.
It's not just Zaush. If you didn't know people were going to be angry that you hired him, then you're idiots. If you knew people were going to be angry but didn't care, you're assholes. Then when you did hire him and, lo and behold, people were angry, you handled it in the worst way possible. You waited ages to say anything through official channels, but on twitter we had admins lumbering around with trebuchets loaded with shit, flinging it in all directions. Then, someone realised you needed a strategy to respond to this problem, so tweets were deleted and furious backpedalling began - forgetting, again, that people will have screenshotted them, because of the sheer size of the shitstorm.
It's like you're trying to create your own version of the Borgias, but you have literally no idea how to handle politics, public relations, or just people in general, so instead of being ruthless and succcessful, you're just flabby and inept. There's only one man ever to have the creative talents to sum up your ineptitude, so the last word goes to one Malcolm Tucker:
"You're like the coffee machine - from bean to cup, you fuck up."
If it's not hiring a dog fucker to be an admin, it's hiring a rapist. If it's not a dogfucker or a rapist, it's your inept wife. If it's none of those, just pick from a pool of popular artists/furries after they bribe you with art. If the inept site staffing isn't a prime concern, then the dozens of security holes in the site can take their turn at trying to buttfuck you for your data. If it's not that, it's the site's finances being mis-managed or even embezzled. If it's not any of that, it's general mis-management of the site, so that we get a few week's worth of downtime when they forget to enable automatic cache deletion. If not THAT, you can choose the site going down when they choose to work on live code rather than work on things to the side, take down the site to implement solid changes, and then reboot the site.
PICK YOUR DERP. IT COMES IN MANY FLAVOURS.
CORE BREACH?!
lel
You do know that you guys just shot yourselves in the foot with a shotgun, right?
Of course not, because Zaush did no wrong. Nobody has a problem with him at all.
Enjoy your shithole site. Anybody with a conscience has left.
I hope you realizing this is enabling as fuck for the worst kind of people. Please do some research on Rape Culture if you really want to be sensitive about this topic and not be so stubborn.
Nothing will change.
It's the only thing I can expect actually. It's no secret that this site is under extremely poor management. What makes them think they can keep a separate team on track this time? Bad enough they couldn't do that earlier when Adam and his blurted out the project publicly when they were told to keep things hush-hush. Even worse when subsequently, reveals that nobody was communicating with each other for the project or rather their. From what's said in the journal some of them are gone, but Adam remains a vital(?) part of this project for some reason, whose proven he can't keep quiet when trusted not to, did not bother to communicate with the team along with all those who also didn't, let alone whose very involvement is creating much unneeded backlash and damaging to their reputation.
If I were whoever is in charge, I would not care if any of them had 4~10+ years of experience in the field of whatever I need them for. I would be perfectly fine with postponing the project as a result of getting rid of all of them for what happened, causing a fucking drama scene to show how little we even got it together.
I like to stress that I do not care about some moronic claim that Adam's a rapist nor do I really believe it. Why do I say moronic and the disbelieve? Because it's simple, when you get raped and want justice/revenge, you go to the police, not the internet. I don't care if it really did happen, nobody in their right mind would believe it, because the lady never went to the police. Yes, it may sound angry, because I am quite pissed I've wasted time looking into it only to see nearly all of it was blown out of proportion and/or fake, and that someone mentioned it wasn't the lady, it was a hacker who exposed this shit to the community.
Now I'm going to go back to doing what I'm doing expecting nothing to change.
Also, more people need to acknowledge that Chris Farley did not die....he changed his name to Rob Ford and got a crew cut.
ah, ok. things will return to normal in no time.
Another concern has related to what staff can access what data. How Fur Affinity collects and handles data, as well as who has access to it, has been subject to a great deal of rumor and speculation over time. Therefore we have started work on a Privacy Policy that will become part of Fur Affinity’s policy documents in the coming weeks. This will outline what data is collected, how it is used to enhance your browsing experience, and how to remove your data from our systems if you wish.
As for staff data access, it should be noted that none of the Project Phoenix developers have access to the production database, where user information is securely stored. Nor do they have administrative access on the site. As for user information, anything not publicly accessible is restricted to trusted administrators, some content only allowing specific administrators to see it, and only under certain circumstances. Fur Affinity does not share your data without your permission except under certain circumstances, such as a valid legal request. "
I love how this was only directly addressed now and after I called to attention in more detail about the programming of the entire site. It means little now since this is something that should have been discussed from the begining, but whatever.
I have yet to see someone of outstanding character or at least sensible disposition directly address or stand for ANYTHING on this site.
Time and time again I've seen the fog of general statements and facts thrown around to fog the situation and issues at hand. I know what you're trying to do but it's far too late to be trying to sound professional.
Zaush has not proven to anyone he can program anything, nor has he dis-proven or even shown a good moral character, and the staff on FA have shown action only when concerning other FA staff or popular members. Administration should NEVER BE BIASED. I've been an admin and ran communities before as well as having been part of smaller communities that have effectively destroyed themselves. The actions of the staff and community have been, in general, unacceptable and disgusting. As admins you've neglected your jobs until you saw fit to step in and DO something when it was in self interest or in the interest of friends and such that benefit you in some way.
Hey, everyone of FA know that they have a partnership with a company called VigLink that puts a tracking cookie on your computer and monitors if you buy something linked directly from their site so they can make a portion of that sale? How about the fact this tracking cookie stays on your system and passively collects all sorts of information about your browsing habits and more! Also, if that wasn't enough, the TOS for VigLink's tracking cookie and agreements are very shadily worded. WHERE'S THE TRANSPARENCY FOR THAT?
I'd like to state again that even if the development staff don't have access to private information.. it wouldn't be that difficult to allow someone to back door the information. You can even program ways to bypass typical security protocols on a website to do whatever you need to. Some websites have this feature just in case something extreme happens, but as far as what everyone is concerned with is can we trust that everyone on the development "team" is trust worthy enough to believe they would do us no harm. I'd wager that from the amount of people leaving it shows that they do not trust that idea or you to follow through with anything.
Dragonneer, you have the weakest voice on this site. You may own this site, but your actions, or rather inaction, discredits you GREATLY.
To all of you who say "It's not your problem" or "It's none of my business".. you are all the reason why sexual assault (of any kind), bullying, and other issues in the world are a problem. The lack of empathy for other human beings shows a sign that the individual in question does not value all life or persons equally and has a selfish and unhealthy value of self over others. Taking no action, saying nothing, and ignoring the issues only adds and makes the problem worse. Ignorance and blind compliance are two very dangerous things and have caused many terrible things to occur through-out history. You perpetuate an age old problem with mankind when most people would at least feel upset or try to do something.
Hitler was a pretty nice guy, no one could prove he was doing anything wrong at first. He was actually very charismatic and even got people to blindly comply with everything he said and asked because he made it sound like it was in their best interest in favor. Hitler was actually a loved and respected person before he attacked and showed everyone what he was really intending to do. He was a man that disillusioned an entire country by playing on the ignorance and complacency of others. He used their natural desire to have their own lives improved to slowly weaken them and setup neighboring countries to be invaded with little resistance. Relevance of what I'm saying? It wouldn't be difficult for one person on the staff to do something like this to the rest... as well as others.
People who care still do exist, we just aren't as loud and dangerous as the people that people are crazily interested in seeing do things.
Grow up, people.
bet you will feel dumb now.
Bet you'll feel dumb, but text that can easily be fabricated isn't considered proof.
Also, even if he DID do the acts, is it really necessary to say things like "Burn FA to the ground!"?
It just shows how immature some people are.
Just because FA hires a guy that has a possibility of a sexually offensive background, it doesn't mean we should boycott FA and hate Zaush. Because there's no good reason to; there's no proof. Just as I said above, it's like mainstream society going around and avoiding/slandering furries because they heard this thing from that guy's best friend saying that furries go to meets and fuck each-other in fursuits. This isn't true, but they're slandering the name of furries without any real desire to even think about it or look into it.
As for the FA hiding comments and blah blah blah for people wanting to leave, all of that is covered above and I think that FA's fine. They had good reason to do it. They're trying their best to improve things; this is not a time to be pissing and moaning about how bad it is. It's a time to support the website.
So, seriously, get over it people.
They have been spewing this same fucking shit since 2006 and sucking up people's donation money left in right. Removing the whole Zaush situation FA does not get a green light anyway. A backlash was a LONG time coming honestly...Its about fucking time. If people are simply going to ignore these problems and say its okay you can royally go fuck yourself.
Your no better than the FA staff themselves. All the complain and bitching Rapist Coder or not is completely justified in every way.
First of all; I think the site is great as it is. I've seen no reason to hate the site. This is mainly because I've only been on FA for half a year.
Second of all; If you have trust issues with the site, then FUCKING LEAVE. Nobody's making you stay. Stop complaining about it.
I've seen NO reason to leave. I think the staff is trying and I see evident effort from their part to improve things around here. If you don't, then fine. Let your suspicions do whatever, but don't take it out on people who don't deserve it.
Also, try to get an attitude check. I was just saying my personal opinion on this whole situation and you came up and tried to insult me. Calm your nuts, I'm only trying to bring some sense into this.
This situation is about what's happening right now, and I'm here.
Your past strifes with the website is your business. If you want to leave, leave.
It's simple. Why are you making shit complicated like it's a life choice and arguing over the internet? If you don't like how FA runs things, then don't stay. That's your opinion entirely.
I think FA is a wonderful website. This is actually an old issue that people are bringing back up because they were reminded.
I also think it's fucked up when someone's accused for rape; I could accuse anybody on this site for rape, fabricate the whole thing, and they'd be banished everywhere the news spreads. This is not reason to get pissy at FA and Zaush because there's no proof of anything. This applies in real life too; being fired for being accused isn't quite right. I do understand the PR move, though. Which is just a sad fact of life.
I think that the immature part of this is that a ton of people now hate both FA and Zaush for something that may not have even happened. What happened to thinking fairly?
This whole debacle is stupid. It's causing artists and producers to lose money and business, it's causing people to get disconnected, and it's caused a ton of unnecessary drama. It'd be best if it was left alone.
You must be some special kind of stupid.
Literally every single comment NOT siding with him, has been deleted, or hidden.
Have fun with that.
That's fine...I wouldn't want these people migrating with me anyway to any new place. Let them just all stay in a shithole and die in shit.
His Immaturity is showing.
I said this last week.
I will repeat myself.
I SMELL CAKE...
FA needs an actual PR team because what's going on now is not helping. The behavior of the staff is utterly reprehensible in how they addressed peoples' concerns. When things began to blow up after the first few hidden comments, did nobody stop to think that that way of handling the situation was NOT GOOD? Why wasn't someone addressing the community that day about the situation via a public forum in which criticism and concerns were not hidden? The number of people I've seen leave the site is extreme and a lot of them are NOT because of Zaush but rather because how the staff handled the situation. Instead of educating people on how to bring up their concerns to be HEARD, the staff went through and deleted journals, comments, and suspended people who ever so much as mentioned what was going on. This is not good PR. This is not even in the realm of possibly acceptable PR.
And instead of a heartfelt discussion between staff and community, you just sweep everything under the rug and expect things to go back to normal. You put the blame solely on the users who brought up the concerns. You ignore the obvious distress of a good number of your community. Shame on you.
The solution is to not make it blow over, take action, and spread the word. Eventually they will do their 180. It may not ever be the same trust wise but at least the site will be better in itself.
And if they don't do a 180? well simple...fuck em.
Well.. its basically PR strategy: Address everything without affirming, confirming or actually informing nothing. Its basically a "mentioning it without actually discussing it".
feels alot like "We regret nothing; Shit won't change; We still support a rapist and don't care about what he's done; Hope you let this ship sink and move on after this journal".
Gladly I'm just waiting around until my transition to Weasyl is done.
zaush's profile pic
is hella cute
that is all
Instead, I've decided that Weasyl is in fact a good site. I like it a lot more than FA, which I heard hasn't been updated since 2006.
I learned that a lot of the onus comes from Dragoneer telling the victim not to report Zaush. And that's why it's been dormant for so long. Dragoneer though that Zaush's reputation was more important than the safety of the victims. And that behavior is deplorable.
Anyway, I also implore you to stay the fuck away from FurryScumbags. These people aren't your friends. They are only opportunists who have jumped on this bandwagon to gain popularity. If you search their blog BEFORE all of this stuff happened, you'll see gems like these:
Accusing Wolfy-Nail of being an ACTUAL rapist for drawing rape porn: http://furryscumbags.tumblr.com/pos.....e-wolfy-nail-i
Attacking SakuraFox for fursuiting in a kimono and calling her racist: http://furryscumbags.tumblr.com/pos.....-sugar-worn-by
Accusing people who still like Lapfox Trax of being rape apologists: http://furryscumbags.tumblr.com/pos.....-a-person-isnt
This blog is about as supportive of the furry fandom than the GNAA or the Patriotic Nigras. And that was what spurred me to write such vile shit. I was legitimately afraid that the side against Zaush would be like these nasty vile trolls. I was scared of their influence in the furry fandom.
But then I found that there were plenty of people against Zaush who were also against FurryScumbags. And they explained the facts about the case in a calm and collected way without calling me a Nazi, Rape Apologist, Fuckass, Fedora-Wearer, or anything like that. I learned where the 1 in 4 rape statistic comes from (it includes any kind of unwanted sexual contact, and that also means, by that criteria, that 1 out of 10 rape victims were men in 2003 http://www.rainn.org/get-informatio.....ssault-victims ) and I changed my view.
Ultimately, I learned that rape isn't just forcing someone down and violating them violently. It can be any kind of unwanted sexual contact. I just thought the word implied strong physical violence like murder, battey, etc. so I was wary to use it to describe anything but the most violent and physical situations.
I apologize for the bigoted comments I made.
But I still despise Tumblr so-called "Social Justice" as it's not only batshit crazy a lot of the time but it only serves to make the reaction even more extreme like that found on r/mensrights, /pol/ on 4chan, and Stormfront. Both the extremes have only bolstered each other increasing the far-left insanity and that far-right insanity at the same time.
Like that I should believe that Wolfy-Nail has actually raped someone or that I should be offended by a fursuiter wearing a kimono.
I certainly don't agree with those things, but wolf-nail does appear to be an asshole from what I've seen!
you were such a little shit through most of this zaush crap but i totally agree with you here tbh, good on you for apologizing for what happened and on top of that, actually learning from your mistakes. more people on this site srs need to learn to do that.
And yeah, let's just say that when your supporters include a "political homosexual" who "chose" to be gay out of misogyny, something is really fucking wrong with your ideas.
And more people should join Weasyl. It's a really good site! I'll probably still have to be on FA though since only 21 of my 443 followers followed me to Weasyl.
Oh, and ironically, right after my comments were posted on FurryScumbags and FurAffinity_txt I got over 40 new watchers on FA. Go figure.
I'M STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO WON THE $1111 HERE
Give'em a chance for fuk sake...i know they had too many but i'm sure that we don't want the FA community and FA as a whole to fall apart....no i'm sure we don't......right?
LOL
Yeah, obviously.
For everyone screaming foul here, take a HUGE step back, and remove from your passion for this subject ANYTHING to do with your personal past. What YOU or someone you KNOW went through, has nothing to do with THIS 'incident'. If you read the facts plainly, that are NOT verifiable from the victim's hands, She willingly and knowingly went BACK to this house where she was made to feel 'uncomfortable' more than once, knowing that she felt 'uncomfortable' while broken up with her possessive boyfriend...
She gets back with said boyfriend and THEN cries foul? I'm female. I KNOW females. She honestly comes across as a toxic personality. This sounds a hell of a lot more like a justification to herself and to her possessive boyfriend than it does a testament to Zaush wanting some fun with her.
And I'll stick my head out there for any drama lamas to lop off, because honestly I think Dragoneer is handling this in the ONLY way he can. Aaaaand over half of you just stopped reading. But he's doing this site for free. He has NO PROOF in a he said she said situation. Demanding the owner of a website do something instead of the police is doing things bass ackwards.
I am (to give you the only history you'll EVER see on it) a 40 year old survivor of rape from when I was a pre-teen. The person who DID that, is still part of my life. We've both been through therapy, and while I'll never truly trust them again, we are both NOT the persons we were back then. I also know people who are fellow survivors, I also know men who's lives have been ruined by vindictive bitches out for a piece of flesh because they got dumped who scream rape/abuse that never happened. There's victims and then there's victims folks. Facts speak for themselves.
Considering I use this site for free, I don't have a say so in its running, but I honestly hope these updates make things smoother, and even more fun, and can anyone explain why the donations have been stopped? Finally in a place where we could donate to the site and I see that they've stopped taking them. I must have missed something...
If Dragoneer is comfortable letting someone with that sort of personality, reputation, and past history write the code for his site and take up the mantle of FA staff, then it's not a site I (and many others) want to be a part of anymore. They knew the reaction they were going to get for it, but just didn't care enough. They'll tank the PR damage and wait until things die down and go back to the way it always was. This is nothing new.
That's attention seeking Tarath. Even if I give her benefit of the doubt... that's ATTENTION seeking from a total stranger on a website who doesn't know her over something he has absolutely no proof, no control over, and if he DID kick off Zaush and he was a cock about it? He could go after THEM for kicking him off... If you're too young to realize that, too naive to see that... whatever the reason? I KNOW those kinds of attention hungry negative folks. I, and many others can easily SEE those patterns in her words, if they even ARE her words. I AVOID those kinds of folks. Because they ruin lives to save their own asses when called out for letting go and trying to have fun and don't give a rat's ass for who they destroy.
I'm not referring to ANY other situations/girls because I honestly haven't looked them up, and don't want to look up any other ladies from Zaush's past. That doesn't concern me, doesn't affect me, and doesn't matter to me. He's not one of my personal friends, and if he was he'd know my opinion if I knew the whole story. Not out on any forums, not out on any public places. I'd keep it to ourselves.
If Dragoneer says he's not got any access, he doesn't. And even if he did? He's not getting any info from me that any of the rest of you don't have from looking me up. I'm not insane enough to leave all my personal info out there on a furry website for the world to see online. No matter how much people complain, this is his website. And you're here for free. If you don't like it, you have to accept it or leave because Dragoneer doesn't have to accept anyone's criticism but his own and maybe his significant other's... and trust me, you always listen to that other half because they matter too. The rest? Can take a flying leap off the .net if they don't like it and can't live with it. Plain and simple.
"UNLESS I'M MISUNDERSTANDING SOMETHING, WHY THE FUCK DID SHE GO BACK TO HIS PLACE REPEATEDLY AND EVEN TAKE HER TOP OFF? " Not word for word but like... ah, fuck, this reminds me of the stupid bullying videos they played in High School.
"your boyfriend broke your arm?! Why are you with him?!"
" It's not that easy! I can't just leave him! ;A; "
-___-
Not to say that I'm taking this situation lightly, I'm a victim of two incidents as is so it can be shitty, BUT those were ASSAULT.
YOU DONT FACKING WALK INTO THE RAPISTS DEN AND NOT EXPECT TO HAVE ANYTHING STUFFED IN YOUR HOLES, MA'AM. So, as you mentioned, it just seems to me that they did something and she changed her mind about it late and wants to blame that mistake on him and not herself for giving into her curiosity instead of remaining loyal to her BF at the time.
You don't just PUT yourself into these situations and then complain about it.
That said I'm glad to know that anyone who is immediately offended by this is leaving. If they're willing to jump to conclusions over something like this with little reason or evidence then it probably means one less moron to deal with on this site... And their 90 accounts they make for each fan OC they have.
Rather than remove the problem, you'd double down on it. There are plenty of other people out there that could do what Zaush does, but I suppose being one of the top watched artists and good friends with the site admin gets you places.
From the bottom of my heart; fuck you.
Why can't the weasyl supports just drop off of FA and leave people alone on here? Staying cause there is still money isn't gonna help your claims that FA is a terrible site. All you are doing is keeping it going. :/
Bitching about Zaush isn't gonna change anyone's mind that is already set about staying.
They always come back.
Once you join FA, you're here FOREVER.
FOR-E-VER.
FOR-E-VER
That is me. I still have no idea what all the specifics are about. Don't know about the allegations or the actual facts of the matter. It does explain the jumping ship thing that so many have been doing though.
just something for artists to think about if they decide to jump ship.
An ON SITE reader that is capable of displaying doc docx pdf and rtf and being able to display all of them on the site WITHOUT having to download
support for .tif images
removal of the size limit
ability to filter by keyword (i dont wanna see macro hyper herms with 4 tits and 3 cocks when browsing the front page of FA.) ON SITE instead of with an add on in firefox
a checks and balances system for admins. seriously. your admins are out of control, and it is obvious.
more sorting options.
separate sections on the front page for visual art, stories, and music. Stories and music are abundant here on FA but it gets very little attention. It would be great to have those artforms more visible
The ability to reply to shouts on your page (take a look at Sofurry and Weasyl. they both have this and it is handy)
the STAR system for rating.
personally i'd love to see a prompt to comment when you fave an image. too many times i get a fave but the person never comments to say WHY he or she likes it. It is annoying.
some digging will bring you to the creators FA page http://www.furaffinity.net/user/matteh
his page info reads
"I have left permanently due to numerous personal issues and a great deal of harrassment and bullying from numerous members of this "fandom" who shall not be named but should know who they are.
I also need time to focus on my own personal life.
I'm afraid I have no free time to develop or support FurAffinity Filter anymore and upcoming changes to the site may well make it unnecessary. It can still be found for download at Mozilla Add-Ons and the Chrome Web Store should you need it, but unfortunately it won't be updated.
- Matteh/Matthew."
Is somewhat saddening.
I'm very sorry you feel admins are out of control. You can always appeal admin decisions through TTs for review if you feel they are not in line with site policies, or Note the admin in question if you feel you need clarification in regards to administrative action.
I can't really address the rest of your points, as I'm not involved with the redesign, but I was curious about the first point and feel you deserve some kind of acknowledgement, at least, of the second. I don't claim to be perfect, but I do try my best to help this community.
as for the tif thing, I just like that format better than png. It allows for practically unlimited resizing, especially if I end up using the image for a poser or printing it. I dont want to have to save multiple copies onto my own hard drive. That is wasting space for me. HECK just have it capable of displaying a .psd directly! That would solve even more problems.
The trouble ticket system is broken to hell and back. I cant trust an admin to discipline another admin cause they are all friends, and none of them are willing to do that.
It's also not only a matter of FA's bandwidth, but also the users' bandwidth. There are still (arguably maybe more now with the spread of smartphone and tablet devices) people who live under a bandwidth cap, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't appreciate having to download potentially megabytes of file to see their favorite artist's latest work.
*.tif is great for storing a "raw" local copy, I absolutely get that (I do have some art schooling background and save formats were part of that), but generally for the web it's better to save things in the most compact format that still makes it look good.
I assure you, if an admin needs disciplining because of some administrative action taken (or even just because they uploaded something to their gallery they shouldn't or what have you), they will be disciplined. While I respect the other members of the admin team, I am not afraid to disagree with them or tell them I think they're wrong, and I'm not aware that any of the other admins feel differently on that subject.
I'll readily agree that the ticket system is incredibly backlogged, and that it's missing some features that would make both admins' and users' lives so much easier, but that doesn't mean that it's completely worthless.
Something I see SoFurry doing a lot is just that. I see site updates all the time that basically say "We just added another server." how is it that sofurry can afford to do this and FA cannot? I seriously can't fathom this concept.
As for the TT issues, I honestly think most of the administration is corrupt and arrogant. You are practically the only one who has ever replied to me in a helpful manner (which I appreciate. at least they arent ALL bad). But I think it might be time for the entire team to be scrapped and re-built with a re-application process which includes a public voting system on FA.
As far as coders go, the current one is a UI coder. he is NOT qualified to work on the backend of a site (which he will be doing), and from what I read, he has too much going on in his personal life to dedicate time to the development of this new look for FA. Not to mention he makes the entire fandom look bad (whether the rumors are true or not, his public image isnt good, and for a site that relies so heavily on PR, he was not a good choice)
I would hate to see FA go the way of Myspace. I love the community here, but the site needs to be run MUCH better and reach functionality levels that far exceed current levels, to really survive.
In my understanding, as someone with no involvement at all in FA:U, there isn't any "all that FA:U money" - what profits might have been made have had to be channeled into costs related to the con. I do have experience with the planning of a con a lot more local to me, which ultimately was aborted, and I can say that there's a lot more expenses associated than most people realize. It's not my place to speculate regarding the financial situation of SoFurry, but last I heard just recurring costs related to FA's upkeep frequently involved Neer dipping into his own pockets.
I'm very sorry you feel that way about the administration; I do not have that impression of my colleagues at all. Not all of us may speak in public, but that does not mean a lack of desire to help; there's a lot of reasons to not get involved in all kinds of discussions, not least time constraints. I can also practically guarantee that if staff hiring choices had been done by public vote, I'd not be on the admin team, as I don't get around enough for most people to know who I am despite having been in fandom for around a decade and a half at this point.
There actually are two coders currently involved with Phoenix, though I know one of them has received practically all the attention from the community so far.
Bring in a professional website designer, coder, and a database manager. That is what needs done.
The concerns and issues among the community, if you are failing to realize, are coming from the site and the site's recent actions and not the community. Therefore, it is up to the site to fix these issues. No you can't prevent people throwing allegations around, but that happens ALL the time - political world, corp world, scholarly world, and even our own fandom. You can prevent getting involved. If you make a decision to become involved, you have to stick to it. Which it sounds like you all will. So you must handle the backlash, which I'm -sure- you will.
I realize that the community is exacerbating issues at this time. But that's what a crisis does. And despite how the organization may feel, this was caused by FA. The outage, the changes, the mod control and power, and staff selection - all FA controlled decisions. The community is just reacting. You can't fault the people who make you what you are.
I love this site, been a member for a few years. I think the FA leaks was a worse crisis than what this is. But fairly, I think you will lose a lot of members soon if you don't plan out communications and plan for the future now. FA needs to start thinking like its an organization and not just some art site. FA is way more than that now.
Apparently he has not learned that when enough people dislike something about the site, you do something about it. Doubling down on a rapist is a sure fire way to increase the userbase on competing sites, and hopefully will decrease the amount of donations FA will recieve. Hopefully enough people will leave and never come back, because remaining on this site will only enable the piss poor management to keep on doing what they have been doing all along.
Id bet Zaush's block list is lonelger than Anal-lay's block list now.
Here's a fact for you. Zaush has NEVER been charged with rape.
I hope you're never in his position, although if you were you might see things differently...
i'm glad you were there to witness it and have enough jurisdiction to declare that
When you don't have the facts, you don't automatically assume something is true.
Produce facts, and my opinion will change, until then best regards ~
Please get a clue.
you said it yourself with certainty, either you worded it wrong or are backpedaling
we're done here
Your argument is invalid.
Dogs can not give consent to a human in any way shape or form. Even the smartest dogs only have the mental capacity of a three year old. They would also be classified as mentally incompetent.
Sex with a dog? Rape
Sex with a 3 year old? Rape
Sex with a mentally impaired person? Rape.
Do i need to spell it out for you?
Years in the past? To my knowledge, Chase has not come out to say that he no longer has an interest in fucking dogs. I am by no means a Saint, but even Hellen Keller could see that this is a clear and obvious abuse of power. It shows that the administrators DO NOT have to abide by the same rules that we, as users, are held to.
I, at no point, asked that Chase is "completely horrible person all together and should burn in the fires of hell for all eternity". I've met him in person. I've drank with him probably half a dozen times. In person, he is awesome, however I do feel that he should be held to the same standards as users and his actions of sweeping his admissions under the rug are certainly detrimental to his character.
Also, this is not Korea. A large portion of users on FA are in USA. Chase lives in Florida. Sadly, his admissions to dogfucking happened during a time where it was completely legal to fuck a dog in the sunny state of Florida. Dragoneer even admitted that Chase admitted to fucking dogs. His excuse was that (paraphrased) "It wasn't illegal at the time, so it was okay" or something. Here's what FA's CoC has to say about it:
"DO NOT Discuss or Engage in Unlawful Activity - This includes illegal activity such as piracy, streaming copyright content, vandalism, threats of violence, gambling and games of chance (incl. raffles involving the exchange of real money), or discussion/usage of controlled substances. You will receive one (and only one) warning to leave such content off the site. Further, users admitting or found to be engaging in bestiality or pedophilia will be removed from the site."
It does not say "...engaging in bestiality or pedophilia will be removed from the site if it is illegal in your jurisdiction."
Once again, it matters because it shows that administrators are *NOT* held to the same standards that you and I are. Not only is it unprofessional, it is unethical especially since he was allowed to "clean up" his image on the site in ways that we cannot.
though my point is there should not be such hostility and hate towards someone who had made a mistake, this is the sort of thing that causes divides and really hurts a community, so he did something wrong, we all have but we should hate the action not the person, it just pains me to see so much anger and hate towards other people who are only human
http://help.furaffinity.net/article.....nduct-COC.html
Have fun reading the Code of Conduct from Fa and why the ''you shouldn't care because it's not your dog'' doesn't work =P
but call me what you like, I don't care especially not from someone so thick headed you can't even understand the post in the first place and let emotions rule instead of rationality
your ignorance astounds me why don't you actually pay attention before making accusations and saying someone disgusts you, this would be a lot more civil a conversation if you could be smart enough not to immediately lash out without getting all the facts, something that it seems the entire community needs to learn because that is what is happening in this entire conflict
which is basically like saying, "well i mean even if he did fuck a dog i'm okay with him still being on staff"
are you truly OK with giving someone like that a place of power? no? then you might be backpeddling a bit. if are going to support them in any way then i don't know what to say to you.
however it was then brought to my attention that it is in the site rules that those who admit to something like that should be removed, and that being the case I agree action should be taken
> Proof being provided against it is so easily edited, even I could do it in an hour
Noice.
An "apologist" is someone who debates a topic. The definition from thefreedictionary.com is "A person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution."
An apologist has nothing to do with apologizing or stating you support something. It merely means you have made an argument in defense of something. In this case, it's not necessarily accurate. I have never seen anyone here make any defense for rape, and they are therefore not "rape apologists." IF, in fact, the person in question were ever convicted of rape, the closest correct term would be a "rapist apologist." If anything, some have made a defense for the person in question, but most really didn't. It has been vastly more of an "I don't know and don't care" than a clear "He did nothing wrong." >.=.>
-Is a nerd.-
And while bad PR, they also are within their right to keep whomever they want. But I do want to point out that he's not on staff and not hired or paid. He's simply a volunteer. He has no access to anyone's information. He's simply writing some code for the site and is supposed to be sending it on to the current staff once it is finished. So this whole argument is a moot point and somewhat of a "witch hunt," as much as dislike that term. The legal system did nothing, he's not really been "hired" to be fired, and the only real argument here is if they should accept his help when it has caused them so much bad PR. Though considering the site's track record on updates, I would think an update, even by an accused rapist, is better than no update at all.
Is that the staff that are listed here: http://www.furaffinity.net/staff/ Because I don't see Nanuk, ctrlaltdel123 or Zaush's names on that page despite the announcement of them being involved with new site developments here: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5417252/ Pretty difficult to ensure clarity if the staff list isn't clear to begin with. Are they "team" or "staff", and what's the difference?
I'd like to see things like staff contacts being update at the same time as a change/addition in staff is announced. Putting everything else aside for a moment, it's issues like this that are the cause of my biggest concerns regarding lack of clarity and accountability. Reading over this journal post again, it's full of statements relating to staff and yet there's no clear picture of who the staff actually are D:
Time and again you've made promises like these and time and again you've delivered on precisely none of them. There are no foundations here on which we can build any kind of belief in this site ever improving. For one thing, how you can insist on increased transparency when the boss of the site can't answer even the simplest and most non-contentious question clearly and honestly (believe me, I've tried, in the most polite way I possibly could) I really don't know.
As to the main issue, the one you seem determined not to even properly acknowledge, in this instance the accusations do matter, simply because of the sheer scale of the reaction to them. Enough people believe them true for (reportedly) thousands of them to leave the site. As much as you might want to believe otherwise that level of negative response, that degree of unrest and upset just at his appointment is cause enough to deem him a poor choice. How you can possibly think someone that controversial and disruptive a suitable fit for such a high-profile job frankly boggles my mind.
All I can think is that the painful bias toward 'popufur' artists that has dogged the fandom in general and this site in particular for so many years now truly does extend right to the very top, as I can't see any other way you could be so blind to what's staring you right in the face.
What's apparently the biggest exodus in FA's shameful history doesn't seem to have opened your eyes, so one more departure isn't going to make a difference. I still feel it's my only choice even if I don't really know where I'm going to go, as I have very little doubt Project Phoenix is going to crash and burn, and quite possibly take this site down with it.
I've been a member here pretty much since the beginning; I don't want to see it end like this. As long as Dragoneer remains in charge, though, FA is doomed.
I'm on weasyl, and you know what? They aren't just a furry site, PLUS they have ALL the features we have been promised on FA since 2006. The staff there are nice and actually care about our opinions.
So FA you can keep your dog fucker and rapist staff, alot of people have already made the move to weasyl and other sites. I hope more will continue to do the same.
Good riddance.
And I was raped rather brutally when I was 13, all rapists need to die end of story. Zaush is a rapist, and since the staff sucks his dick obviously I'm out. Lets not forget that he also tried this shit on Sciggles but I suppose that's fine. Emotions or not, rape is something I do not tolerate and it did in fact damage me. I also did not tell anyone till recently actually, I have alot of mental health problems and he USED that against me *my rapist* I was too terrified to say anything because people would have though I was crazy. So people think what they want, but people like me who HAVE been raped can spot a rapist a mile away.
Zaush needs to be locked away, he harassed not just Ferality but others like Sciggles as I said earlier but also Shinigamigirl and a few others. No one speaks against him though which is sad.
I don't condone rape either, and i find it disgusting also, and i understand where you are coming from as a victim, and i also give you my support too, but honestly, I've had to grow a thicker skin and toughing up thanks to society's pressure on male rape victims as opposed to females after they locked her away in "CC" (which is a military type jail). Yes, it was hard to hide for both of us.
What I don't like, is this mob mentality of other victims to go after someone and then ask me to join when I don't know. I know that rape is disgusting, but I really don't know who Zaush is, and quite frankly, I don;t want to go on a moral crusade either. If that makes me a bad person, then oh well, it's the equivalent of people laughing at me, saying I'm a feminized faggot man who needs to die off for the sake of the human species for not beating a women who assaulted me.
But, let's just hope this blows over and things settle down
I got over it, I mean the scars are still there but I don't let it affect me anymore but when things like this is brought up my memories start coming back. I hope it blows over too but I have been here since 2006 from my main account. This place is just full of drama and I can't deal with it anymore. I just wish that the admins would tell the truth and actually take our concerns into consideration.
Only time will tell. I will say that a positive out of this is that people are now (or growing) the strength to come forward and speak about it, as I know I was deeply afraid to tell anyone, but overtime, when people asked, I gave them a brief rundown of the situation, and alot of support was given, which is good.
I hope you have a good future ahead of you
i did read his comment, my response was to lue directly who is talking about respect all the while telling people "good riddance." i should not have to explain how this is immature
why does it even surprise you that people might be pissed when the fa staff have not been treating their userbase with respect or dignity, you do know the rape allegations are not the only thing people are upset about right?
also technically you are always in some state of feeling when you make a comment
Rape is bad and disgusting, but putting yourself to their level by doing this crap makes it unacceptable by my standards. Apparently furry is serious shit to you, so you might want to go outside and breath some fresh air before you pop a blood vessel
completely not ok. I may calm down when people take this shit seriously for once, that is why I am so mad.
Elsewhere, it's none of my business to poke into Zaush's personal life, and just because I'm a survivor, it does not mean I'm going to go apeshit on him and cause more drama to him, as he's in enough to begin with. Not attacking you others, but this is wayyyyyyyyyyyy out of hand now
By that, also, I want to hear you start defending male rape victims/survivors too, because we all know society looks down on men who are sexually assaulted, it's seen as a laughable matter and deemed UN-mascluine by both genders. If you were a sane survivor, you would put aside your anger for Zaush and defend all victims of gender in a mature fashion.
I do agree with some other users though, regarding Zaush. Whether or not he was reported to the authorities, the posts elsewhere and inappropriate joking should be frowned upon. As someone else has stated, what you are running is essentially a business. When one of your employees starts to make your business look shoddy, less serious customers will want to use your services.
You can always find another coder for your website; There are so many talented furs out there who would jump for the opportunity to contribute to a site they love. You cannot, however, cover up every hole in the wall caused by rash actions taken by your staff. If it were my decision, I would remove him as a primary source for your coding. Keep him in the wings if you so need his help, but find someone else. Perhaps someone who doesn't rub folks the wrong way?
I do hope this new project comes through! I've been poking around here for around three years now on different accounts, and I've had high hopes. Good luck to you, and I hope these changes do come out, and for the better!
And don't let a few people's threatening to leave force you to take action against somebody, when there's no proof of anything.
Only facts matter. Rumors should not factor in, ever.
Do not remove Zaush based on mob rule.
1 - Not being able to speak with a mouthful of peanut butter
2 - Farting in an elevator and having others join on the next floor
3 - White Knighting
4 - Ad-hominem Attacks
5 - Broken Promises
6 - Rape Apologetics
7 - Diddling Pets
8 - Rape
9 - Mob Rule
10 - Justin Bieber
We've been fighting the wrong battle, folks.
As for the allegations, it's not my place to comment and it doesn't effect my opinion of this site. Completely none of my business, but I will say that people here are acting so immature about it...
Anyway, looking forward to the (~hopefully~ frequent) update journals the Phoenix team have to offer. Don't let us down this time, make this time count.
Agreed with Student. Having a public CoC for staff would be a good start. More ways for the staff to be accountable.
Seriously, can't you just accept/admit that you are a terrible site manager?
Second, most of the users of the site aren't "blind", they are smart enough not to trust rather shady allegations made through the note system of a furry website.
I was referring to Zaush lying about his credentials, and having multiple /multiple/ people call him out for being a liar. He's notorious for being obnoxious and self-absorbed. If you aren't rich and popular, and I quote, "You are a nobody."
On top of that....
bud·dy
ˈbədē/Submit
informal
noun
1.
a close friend.
Being female has nothing to do with it, bud ;3
That in an of itself has NOTHING to do with him working on this site.
As for him lying about his credentials, I have not heard of that, I guess it got lost in all this hullabaloo.
Nothing I was talking about had anything to do with his knowledge or lack of when it comes to his coding skills, so you are arguing a moot point.
"Don't like it?"
What is "it" exactly?
The it, despite you not knowing what it was even as you typed it, was my disapproval for 'Neer's decision to replace his actual development team with a guy who doesn't know what he's doing. Hence, the lack of knowledge when it comes to coding. The entire basis of my argument is founded on this, and you seem content to argue it, so...
Also, Myr and Ben were publicly announced to be working with Nanuk on re-writing the code, by Dragoneer. I'm not assuming anything. They've been working their proverbial butts of for 'Neer, and he kicked them to the side to support a friend of his (who doesn't need the support in the first place). But hey, this is Zaush's project now. When it crashes down on all of you thanks to poor coding knowledge, and every is forced to admit this was all a sham, don't cry :3
As I said below, you said "this whole fiasco" which one would assume from the 99% of the posts here was about his personal life not his coding skills.
What is was trying to get across was that the reason I responded to your OP was that it didn't sound like it was being directed at Zaush's ability, or lack of, to code and improve the site. It looked it it had to do with the personal issues that everyone else in this thread is talking about.
I already said that I have no dog in the fight when it comes to how the site is coded, because I admit that I know nothing about coding, I am with everyone else on FA saying that yes we want improvements. Can Zaush bring them around? I have no idea.
I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but considering the other projects that have been started and abandoned, I take it with a HUGE grain of salt.
When it comes to the down times, I had this argument with someone else during the semi recent down time, and they made the point that it is really not a good business decision to put all your eggs in one basket if the furry fandom is what you use to pay bills.
For the people who make fursuits or do art professionally, they ALWAYS have a website. This place is nice, but it is a FREE site, and if you are entrusting your money to a FREE site, that isn't a good business decision.
I had to grudgingly agree with their points. If a person really is paying their bills with furry art. fursuits, etc, then they need to have a backup plan because this site is run by volunteers, not businessmen and it WILL have some downtime.
Theeeennn... Zaush happened.
As for putting all of your eggs in one basket? I agree, especially when that basket is full of holes. But how can you justify moving, when you try to get a new basket, and all of your egg-buyers complain? It's not that you just don't like the color of your original basket, it's that the buyers refuse to acknowledge the holes in the basket. If you get the new basket, you lose a lot of buyers, but you don't have to worry about losing your eggs. If you stick with your current basket, you're going to constantly lose more and more eggs, until the basket finally breaks beyond repair. But hey, at least you have your buyers left!
But Leiton, choosing the new basket means you don't care about your buyers!
*sigh...*
What I *WOULD* suggest was a multi-pronged approach where you have a website and a presence on multiple furry sites, but keep your communications through email, so if FA goes down, then you wont lose all your information.
I don't think that furries would complain if you have a presence on a furry site, say FA, and then if you are serious about commissioning them, either going to a website or just through email to talk about it.
That way, you have multiple baskets, and if someone doesn't like one color, then they can choose another.
Seems logical enough to me.
Few hours later, the comments are filled to the brim with hate for the artist's decision to use a different website as their main website. I've seen a few artists who tried that, and each one received the kind of disrespect that makes me want to reach through my screen and strangle the self-entitled idiots who are mad that they have to make a WHOLE NEW ACCOUNT to look at porn. As for keeping communications through email, I would also recommend this, but when your website of choice has a reliable note system, people don't find many reasons to use email messaging.
It's amazing the lengths people will go through to make sure everyone knows how much of a bother it is to spend 15 seconds typing just to look at porn.
I have done business with quite a few artists who mainly work on their own website and use FA to post art and garner commissions.
I am not saying it happens, I am sure it does, but I don't think it is as prevalent as you say it is. I would be honestly curious to see any links you may have of this happening. Maybe it is just the artists I deal with, but I just haven't seen it.
And as I said, what I am talking about it not making a person have to make another account on another furry site, I am talking about an artist redirecting people to THEIR OWN website, no sign ups or anything, just a straight website.
And before you mention the comments I made to a particular individual in that thread... I'll admit, I lost my temper a bit. There is no arguing with stupid.
Also, in regards to simply creating their own website... Some artists aren't able to do that. While there are easy alternatives with things like Webs.com and countless others, the sites don't offer much in terms of actual customization, and often have strict guidelines in terms of content.
At that point, you're better off creating your own website from scratch, which obviously not everyone can do :/
The actual hosting of a website is pretty cheap. I get hosting from Gushi, he is a furry and specializes in web based hosting with basically no guidelines and no size limit. He is VERY reasonable and I would definitely suggest him to anyone wanting a furry site.
Now when it comes to designing a site, that is a little different. There *ARE* places online where you can design a basic site for free.. that should be enough for someone starting out.. if someone really wants to go professional, and they are earning enough money to do so, then there are places that will design a site for a fee. The good thing is, that is a one time fee, and if they are really a business it SHOULD be tax deductible.
Hosting is cheap, sure enough, but most people are going to take the easy way out and simply use the free websites like FA, Weasyl, IB, SF, and others. It's not a bad business choice, it just means that financially they have no reason to move from one free site to another, and it's all a matter of personal choice. I don't see why people get so upset that someone would want to use a different site... *sigh*
Doesn't help I'm getting a headache, it's hurting my ability to come up with clever ways of putting things ;w;
I would argue (to them, not you) that is you want to make money, you need to spend a little bit of money. People want a professional look if they are going to pay a person 2K or more for a suit.. maybe that isn't quite as true for a $50 piece of art, but it doesn't hurt your brand by any stretch of the imagination.
If you are semi-professional, it isn't a bad business choice, but if a person is using it as their main source of income I wold have to say it kind of is.
I am not upset at all personally that people want to use a different site. That is their prerogative. What I don't like is drama-mongering and making a big deal about it. If a person going to go, then go. Don't yell about it, just post it on your journal, make a link on your FA page, and be done with it.
Have a drink, it always helps me forget about my headache. :)
For a bit more of a detailed view on the matter, take a look at BenAnderson's posts. You know, the guy who was working on FA 2.0 for a while now (and officially sanctioned by Dragoneer, at that), and got kicked out because Zaush happens to be butt-buddies with our dear ole Mister Neer.
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa.....=1#post4358527
If you meant his skills, or lack of, trust me, people didn't take it that way, me included, It would perhaps be better to be a bit more specific in the future. Considering 99.99% of the comments on this journal are not about his coding skills, its hard to assume that is what you meant.
Just a thought.
first off, supporting FA does not mean you support rape that is a terrible argument even if the alleged rapist, because there is no proof either way and frankly its none of your business, even if the alleged rapist is an admin, it doesn't even mean you support him because he is only one part of a bigger whole and if you keep your nose clean you will probably never even see the guy you can support FA for many other reasons even as simple as you support art.
for those worried about Zaush being an admin, why? what is he gonna do? its not like he is track you down and rape you so what do you care? and even if the accusations are true, sure its horrible and I am not saying its ok, but people make mistakes are we going to bash on him forever now should we all grab our pitch forks and torches and make him a pariah? because that is how you all are treating him, don't tell me none of you have ever made a mistake, and you don't even know all the details of this and it doesn't concern any of you anyway, there are plenty of other admins, and from what I gather he is a coder he will mostly be behind the scenes if I guess right so seriously leave the issue alone and enjoy your porn, I hate how people simply hop on the band wagon and start hating on people, I prefer to judge for myself how i feel about people by interaction, not by pieced together assumptions and spotty information
and even if FA is the worst sight in the world, even if it is horribly run crashes a lot and is moderated poorly, which I think its actually pretty decent, why leave it all together? to me that just sounds stupid, sure go make a Weasyl account, while your at it make an account for inkbunny and sofurry but don't just drop FA for artists that just seems like bad business sense missing out on clients who solely use FA and for commissioners your missing out on artists for the same reason, so leave if you want I guess, more art for me :3
THANK YOU.
You are 100% right, people on both sides have totally been flipping their shit for something that really honestly is non of their business.
Furries LOVE a mob mentality, and that scares me, as this shows how scary we can be when we start to mob, gathering pitchforks and torches.
Sound like you and I are of like minds on this :)
seriously so many people act as though they are so much better than Zaush, so he made a mistake, mind your own business your on a furry porn site I'm pretty sure there are some things you wouldn't like out in the open either
I mean I know a lot of us don't have any lives but there must be better things to do than try and tear people down for past mistakes, find a better way to pass the time people
You are so right on this. I can't even imagine what other furs have done, we are a cross-section of society, so there will be murders, robbers, people who have defrauded others, the list could go on and on.
And yet, people are so quick to judge a person on quite circumstantial evidence?
I wish I could say it surprises me, but it doesn't.
NOW I LEARNED MY LESSON
DON'T VIEW FIRAFFINITY ON MOBILE
my thimbs feel weird from scrolling ALL TE WAY down from the comments aaagh
it feels so weird I wanna chop em off
This site even gives us the chance to watch and see and even talk to (if lucky) some of our favorite artists. And pay them for more if we like them! It's helped younger artists get a foot in the door, and other folks a place to showcase their work with an ENORMOUS following.
It's a good site. It's not perfect, and nothing ever is.
I'll be using other sites too, but not as an alternative, as a way of branching out.
This redesign looks ugly but eh... all I've seen is one measly jumbled screenshot so maybe it gets better. It is..you know...free.
No I don't know Zaush, and I'm not his friend. I would defend anybody in his position.
Deep down I think we all know rumors should never decide someones fate.
Don't be afraid to stand up for proof.
I don't think rape/harassment/bullying of any sort is alright, but I wonder why nobody has contacted the victim to get her to come forward. I feel for you [victim side] who have been taken advantage of and abused. I wish we could all be as strong as you are now for making it through this day still alive. You people are amazing for being able to live through that. I feel you should try to support the victim as much as you plan to damn the accused. She needs to come forward and open up or she'll forever be in fear and shame.
Now for you [this shit don't hold water] people, I agree that you're innocent until proven guilty, but throwing mud at each other doesn't help anything. You can't talk with someone that has hidden harbored fears of sexual predators [even if only accused]. I have not a whole lot more to say except to let them work this out at their pace.
And I applause all of you that take the "high road" in this and just try to let it die down. I feel that is the best for this community. Maybe not the best for the two individuals, but for the whole community, lets not take any sides and let the people that matter handle this. [preferably police/authorities/trauma center/counselors/therapists/and the specific individuals] I'm all for the, "I don't agree with this site, I'm leaving.", but only if you do leave. Why stay here and grow red in the face and horse in the throat mud slinging? I'm sure the victim loves seeing all of this anger and hatred. Constantly being reminded it was a big deal for her to have spent 3 years trying to get away from. Now it's all up on her journal list, maybe all in her notes, in shouts maybe? How would you victims like to be bombarded by a mob [yes a mob] with pitch forks to go attack your attacker verbally [knowing that nothing will probably be done if it hasn't in so long] and then to have your attacker actually release personal logs of texts?IMs? maybe even pictures and a recorded video/audio? To be reminded again that just 3 years ago you were [alleging of course] stripped of your dignity, honor, womanhood, etc? I can't imagine what it would be like as I do not know anything about being a victim, but I imagine it would be a constant nightmare. Every day not being able to trust anyone. Not being able to close your eyes at night thinking that you may wake up with your attacker on top of you.... maybe for the last time. That is an awful thought. So lets end this civil-like.
That was a long winded thing, but I had no where else to post it at. Lets settle down between people. Two opinionated sides. You'll never convince everyone of one idea. So we need to cope or just leave. If you can mingle, do. If you can't, go. Simple and peaceful.
Good luck 'Neer and I hope the revamp goes well.
Also, go through this list. After reading this, everyone that is on the leaving bandwagon should decide to leave the US as well. Even if -he who shall not be named- steps down, he is still there. He has a profile, he still arts. There will never be the jail, there will never be any law enforced. And what if he is innocent? I bet none of you would apologize to him. And you'll never know whether it's truth or fiction. I don't know. I look at it like religion. Do you know Jesus is the son of God? I don't. I didn't know him. There's documented "proof", but I still don't have a clue. I wasn't there. I'll respect everyone for it as well as against it equally. I'm neutral on accusing, but if convicted? Lets hang them up by the toes until the blood seeps from their ears.
And I'm done with my incoherency.
Better to be civil, being aggressive is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy...I'm really glad to see a nice, level-headed neutral opinion on this.
10/10
FA doesn't have to do anything for you. They didn't even have to respond at all.
oneandonly found out that dragonneer hired a lawyer to shut people up, especially Furryleak. https://twitter.com/panderp/status/.....17149841580032
http://pastebin.com/U40jxZuA
We'll see where this goes from here.
Anyway, I do have a question, and I apologize if this has already been asked and answered, but there are almost 2,000 comments to go through so I don't think I'd find it easily.
Anyway, my question is, will these changes result in the site being down for a while again? If so, will we be notified in advance so that artists who take commissions can be prepared for the down time? Thank you!
Gonna be as serious and respectful as I can, but I think you guys should drop him. Rumours/truth or not, there are a huge, huge amount of people who feel unsafe by him having anything to do with the site and nothing is going to change this. You keeping him really only sates your stubborn desires at this point.
Surely if you think he can do the job well, he can get an equivalent or better opportunity elsewhere without making so many people feel uneasy.
Honestly I`m a little surprised if not offended that he hasn`t resigned himself, I don`t know how someone could function knowing he makes so many people uncomfortable and feel unsafe. This is just plain breaking the community. I respectfully doubt he`s some sort of irreplaceable prodigy and in my opinion there`s no reason he should be kept having any kind of power for the reason alone that he makes so many people feel uncomfortable. Absolutely nothing good is coming from this decision.
I think you guys haven`t tried looking at it from other people`s point of views, so please try.
Hope this came across clear and respectful.
Also, his appointment when there were other people already on the job seems like a terrible back stab if anything, not a heroic move to be praised.
I was threatened and my project almost sabotaged by such person when I exposed their incompetence, so I know what I'm talking about, and this puts me firmly on Zaush's side here.
Look here: http://benanderson89.tumblr.com/post/72024106321
Any responsible developer would delegate his tasks to another person if he has no time to do them. Code isn't gonna write itself, and this guy is a complete dick about "Can't do shit, but you need my expertise".
That link you just presented literally does nothing for Zaush in my eyes-- if anything, it makes me like him less. I side with Ben on this situation. The fact that they were dropped, completely and conveniently "forgotten" by Dragoneer, is some serious shady business and being aggressive towards them earns no favors. Zaush is a pushy, unreasonable individual at best-- and a "you know what" at worst.
I can't think of a single excuse to protect him... Well, I might be biased on that because of my own little project :)
Only they didn't. It took them months to come up with just a design document and a primitive mockup.
Even if they did not complete as much as you would have liked them to in the time frame, it remains that they were on the project. They were greenlighted to work, were working-- and were unceremoniously dropped at convenience.
If you want fast progress that happens in a week or two then you've got to pay up. Talent doesn't work under deadlines on a volunteer basis. This isn't some sort of prestigious open source project. It's a furry fetish site -- not something that helps build a resume or appeals to employers.
"Functional database" also says nothing unless you elaborate on it; for as much as we know it could be a single table.
Sorry I'm being nitpicky if you actually had a lot of progress; I've just seen enough IT guys abuse the fact nobody understands what they are doing to be lazy.
Now yeah, what's done is done.
Is this site (FA) going to be down temporarily or permanently? Is FA Pheonix a separate site or just a major upgrade of this site? The last thing I want is end up losing all my important art, creations, and important/keep-worthy text data in this site.
The reason why I ask out of prioritized curiosity is because I'm trying to finish some vital artworks for people on my computer and if this site goes down for a very long time or for good, then that can cause an inconvenience in contacting others that need my artworks that I'm creating. (Oh, and I view FA on my laptop, so it should display well)
Despite my technical concerns, I'm just trying to go with the flow here.
There might be some downtime when we transition to the new site, but we're going to minimize it as much as possible. All data from FA currently should transfer to the new site. You should be fine to continue working and posting in the meantime!
Hope that answers some of your questions!
Epic gif placement is epic, thank you for that <3
Seriously, you decide to take action NOW? Why wasn't action taken in, I dunno? 2010 or 2011??
http://pastebin.com/U40jxZuA
Holy shit, how does this keep getting worse?
Either way I hope more people see and notice this because it's rather sad either way. From the attacks on weasyl's severs and now this, these websites pretty much seem to be at war now.
Neat.
goodbye FA, and here are two middle fingers to show my gratitude.
However, for such a heinous allegation, one would think FA staff would at least be amenable to, I don't know, INVESTIGATING THE ALLEGATIONS?!
Sorry. "There's nothing we can do about it" doesn't cut it here.
YOU GOTTA FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHT TO PAAAAARTY!
As far as the site changes, I'll believe it when I see it. And by "see it", I mean, actually see these changes implemented, and them actually being functional.
Also, from the evidence Dante has seen, Dante declares himself neutral. Chaotic neutral, sure. But still neutral.
Dragoneer for someone whos been called incompitent, and lazy, and lord knows what else, I applaud and thank you for keeping us on this site in the first place and giving us a place to work and display. I know we can sound ungrateful sometimes, but in all seriousness thank you and I wish you luck with the updates or any other future endeavors. Im sorry from the bottom of my heart that every time the staff posts a journal up for the community, many of us seem to come bashing in and dumping all of their personal problems on you guys here. It isnt right, and maybe atleast I hope, some day we can ALL express genuine kindness and gratitude to it. I realize this comment will probably be shunned or ignored by many others that read this, but Ive also seen my share of posts with the same idea in this journal. So come on guys for petes sake lets support FA not kill it.
as far as I'm concerned, this should have remained a private matter,
(one which seemed to be leading to actual legal action that never happened because it was exposed to the public)
but unfortunately some jackass cracker decided to foment controversy within our fandom
by leaking notes that were never intended to be public.
GG on all of you who are arguing about this matter and helping the fucker succeed in their desire to cause trouble.
FA has provided valuable services to me, for free, since I joined up several years ago.
I'm grateful for that, and hope I'll get many more years of enjoyment from the site.
but I've made a whole bunch of friends here that I would not have otherwise met...
...and that alone is ample reason for me not to jump ship.
It's time to remove THE ENTIRE staff of FA, that couldn't possibly be worse than any other option presented now.
Please guys, You all know there's no "Magic" solution that is gonna please everyone so please, just find something to make YOU happy, and run with it. But stop spoiling others users. The one who left left, and the one who stays will stay. What else do you want ? -_-"
how have you already improved transparency?
First, we plan on eliminating much of the ambiguity that currently exists within the Terms of Service and other policy documents on the site. We will be rewriting, condensing, and simplifying many aspects of the rules in order to make them clearer and easier to understand for the community.
this has been a goal every time. why have you failed before and why will you succeed now?
Once this is complete, we will begin recruiting new administrative staff. This will include new staff to help with Trouble Tickets, as well as staff to assist in site moderation.
this comes up every year or so. how do you plan to address turnover?
We understand the community’s concerns, and we have heard you on this topic. However, there is no criminal background on this topic, nor a violation of Fur Affinity policy, and we cannot make staffing decisions based on allegations alone. We would not knowingly bring someone onto the team with an alleged criminal background without reviewing the situation carefully.
Initially we hid and removed content that brought up these allegations. Our intention was not to stifle users’ ability to bring up criticisms or discussion, but was intended to ensure discussion stayed within the confines Code of Conduct. We will not remove content related to this issue so long as it remains civil and in line with the Code of Conduct.
i observe that you're deleting comments for violating the arbitrary rules you made up, but you defend mr. wan only as not having broken any laws.
One concern that has been brought up is the number of old projects we’ve had in the past. We acknowledge that there have been quite a few and we apologize for this, as none came to fruition. Many of these were simply a refresh of the user interface, which often times didn’t pan out due to complications with the site’s existing code that needed to be fixed. Project Phoenix aims to function as a complete transformation of the site, allowing us to rework the user experience as part of a greater whole.
what "many"? there were at least three projects named "ferrox" that were all complete rewrites, plus ice-wolf's caffeine project that was never officially announced. why have none of these been picked up and finished?
the only UI refresh i can actually recall is zaush's from 2009, the same style used to exemplify Phoenix. which makes Phoenix the only project thusfar with zero code actually written. so it's strange to redirect this question into talking about how much better Phoenix is than... itself.
speaking of openness, why exactly can the project not be open source? it's an obvious and laudable goal for a community-focused site that's naming openness as a primary goal, and there are known to be numerous developers lurking around who have no interest in joining staff but would likely skim source code if it were available. the only answer on the previous journal was from Phoenix's new head of marketing and was a complete non sequitur.
As long as the site is functioning, I couldn't care less about any of this so called 'drama'.
If you dont like the site, then leave. I dont see what the big deal is
Innocent till proven guilty?
Secondly, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU OR I. I have no business in what happened, and neither do you or any of the furries here who are complaining.
You telling me to take him to trial is just asinine, ridiculous, and downright stupid.
Second, as a survivor from 3 SEPARATE rapists, I am pretty sure my input counts when having a rapist on the staff.
If you honestly believe without a doubt that he is innocent, you would bring him to trial to prove so
It is just ridiculous to tell me to take him to trial. That is like telling me to perform open heart surgery on a patient. I am not a doctor, I am not a lawyer, Neither you nor I nor anyone here has the right to being this person to trial, yet, that is what being done to him here in the furry fandom and on FA.
Except that people are literally sending death threats to victims and that most rapists arent convicted. just because someone isnt convicted doesn't mean that they arent guilty.
We have officially had circle logic.
I was not comparing a car crash to rape, I was trying to give you an example that something happening to a person, like you, doesn't make what happened to someone else your business, it is still that persons business and not yours.
I think its the hat, adore the hat. :)
Furries. We know drama.
no
Tardy to the party.
Disgusting.
You have all of those with the situation in question, and not only do you do nothing, but you fucking encourage and defend the accused. You people make me sick.
And keep in mind word-of-mouth is nowhere near proof of anything.
Google it. Plenty of screenshots to go around. As well as responses from the admins on FA as well as the alleged perpetrator.
Ummm. ok Seems legit.
Let's apply this type of logic to any other type of bannable offense on FA: Hmmm, here's all the proof we need to see that clearly wrongs have been committed. Oh! But I wasn't THERE to see the dude typing the offensive comments. Therefore, can't do squat!
A note leaked from a website is not PROOF of anything, there is no "clearly wrongs have been committed" here at all. It is he said, she said, and people are quick to judge.
See how gross over generalization works??
Enough evidence would be something substantial that could be taken to the police and used to arrest a person. It seems odd to me that if this happened, why was it taken to a furry site and NOT the police? That seems highly suspect.
Again, if "enough evidence" in other bannable cases is the EXACT SAME STUFF that's provided here, why is it not being followed through? Sure, there's no rules in the AUP that say "Members shall not rape other members", but that's because it's common freaking sense! When people get banned or punished for MUCH LESS, and with much less proof, why is this dirtbag not only getting away with it, but being REWARDED and lauded for it?
This is simply a case of the site admins sticking up for their friends, which sickens me to no end.
I am not talking about other bannable cases here on FA. Each case is different, and comparing one to another is like apples to oranges. What I am talking about is the lack of real evidence to convict a person who has already been convicted here.
You keep saying he is "getting away with something" and is "being rewarded for it" and yet again I say, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HE DID OR DIDN'T do. You are quick to judge someone when you know nothing about the situation. And if you call one note that may or may not be real, evidence, that that is just sad.
This is circular logic, we keep going back to the same thing. I have an objective mind, objective enough to think that a log from a website is not enough to damn a person for the rest of their lives, but it seems enough to convict them to many.
I have never bought any art from him, I never intended to, even before I knew about all of this, so that has absolutely no bearing on this for me.
Again, I really don't want to get in the argument about using logs for other incidents because as I said, each one is different its impossible to lump them all together in one broad stroke.
And I am in no way saying that we need a confession or a video to assume proof. I am just saying that I don't trust the validity of what has been posted, that is all.
Unfortunately, I think we are just going to have to respectfully agree to disagree on this. I think this is an impass.
Henceforth, I hereby call for the administration to make the best effort possible in making the site a dog focused site, as dogs are clearly superior due to their long muzzles and cute tails and start applying pressure on the cat community to move from lions and tigers oh my to dogs. The furry fandom, as a whole, should clearly be dog focused.
That's my thoughts on this entire issue.
also, as a fellow canid, I can totally... oh, wait, I'm sometimes a kittycat so HISSSSSSSS FFFFFTTTTT
Do we not deserve equal representation? Are not all species created equal? How might a long snout create an image of importance when a shorter muzzle clearly leads to more efficiency, as well as a high level of cleanliness leads to better overall health. The dog community has run rampant for too long, depicting themselves as the superior category when such a claim is blasphemous and harmful to us all as a community of critters. So Administrators I request that you crack down on this rampant specism that is running so widespread and damaging everyone from the force known as dog.
*WIGGLE*
How many years do I seriously have to endure attempting to capture the small red dot on the floor, only to have it disappear again?
How many boxes that fits do I need to sits for you to understand that I want SALMON flavor not chicken. This is getting ridiculous.
I've sat on this keyboard so many times just to note DRAGONEER about this issue with no response.
If furAffinity doesn't begin to cat, I'm leaving furaffinity 5ever.
this is adorable and hilarious<3333
http://goo.gl/ZQ9p7k
Personally what would be cool to see in a future update is the ability to click and choose what you watch when watching a person. What I mean by that is if you follow a group and just are following for new news or such you can just follow journals they make, or if someone is a artist and you're not all that interested in their journal posts you can just watch their uploads.
While I appreciate that you found such a nice long word in the dictionary, if you read some of my other posts I am not exactly praising everything to do with FA. There are a lot of problems with the site, and I am hesitant to believe that they are going to improve things like they say they will.
The point is that if you are going to leave, then leave. Don't post it here and be a drama-whore. Do one little journal post on your page and be done with it.
The loudest voices get the most attention.
But then, furry happened.
I am not intending to be inflammatory, I am just making a point that it is rather ridiculous to post an "I'm leaving FA" post here on this thread. it really has no point.
If you want people to know that you are leaving, post it to your page.
That is all I was saying. Nothing more, nothing less.
As far as I know, some artists would love to leave this site, but still have commissions to take care of for customers that only use FA. Also, I would say leaving is not synonymous with left, its more of just an announcement of a plan then anything. I personally have made a weasyl account because a lot of the people that I watch are migrating there, but not all of them. That is why I am continuing to use this site. Rather I or he would want to leave or not, we are entitled to our criticisms.
I wouldn't think that a person with outstanding commissions, etc. would just up and leave. Of course they would want to take care of the business here first.
A lot of people have made Weasyl sites and are still here, hell I have a page there, but its only a placeholder, there is nothing on it. I made it as a lark, not because I was leaving here. I would imagine that the majority of people on Weasyl are here too, that makes sense.
People who are staying here and making an account there, sure, I can understand criticisms, but if you say that you intend to leave FA, I assume that means you are not going to come back here at all, and that leads back to my first point above.
*shrug* Just a few cents.
You greenlight a highly-qualified volunteer team to recode the site application and then forgot about it. You throw that volunteer team under the bus for not communicating with you, the Project Manager that greenlit a project without so much as writing a sticky note to remind yourself. Where was YOUR communication with the team that asked your permission to proceed, Mr. Leadership?
You then waste our donations/traffic revenue on hiring a controversial staff member with debatable qualifications to do the same thing, unnecessarily. This person has a history of not respecting personal (sexual) boundaries, and both you and said staff member admitted this publicly on multiple occasions. You personally confirmed the allegations, just that you disagree with applying the R-word to it (which many of us find unacceptable). And yet in this journal you still are riding on the "it's only allegations" wave, and so you "can't take any action."
You then try to muddy the waters in terms of what little information is available, and why it's important in the first place.
And now you're trying to move along like it's not actually a big deal, and that simply re-stating your position is an acceptable "response" to these events.
[hangs head in hands]
Gross, gross, just gross.
Consider what gyaku_zuki said: you have damaged your brand. This journal makes it clear that you are doing nothing meaningful to rebuild it, except for proceeding with "project phoenix," revising your "privacy policy," and restating how "committed" you feel. You are doing nothing meaningful to allay concerns that this community has become an unsafe place for people to be, or that our traffic contributes to a management team who does not see OUR best interest as THEIR best interest.
You had an opportunity to change some minds with this journal. You appear to be more concerned with changing your own diapers, and not with protecting the best interests of the community.
Good bye and good luck.
So, all of you who are mindlessly arguing over this and that and lamenting how badly the staff fucked up and how nothing will change, I have a solution for you: Change your main art resource and stop wasting energy wallowing in drama. If you hate cub porn and cub enthusiasts so much you cannot stand to use Inkbunny, go use Weasyl. SoFurry and e621 have had some staff controversies before and I am not well versed in the cultures there. You have many options at your disposal that still entail you being able to get off on furry porn. You do NOT have to exclusively use FA and deal with incompetent staff. All this is here is needless self-imposed aggravation and distress.
However, I commend you on actually taking meaningful action rather than just continuing self-attriting behavior (yes, I looked at your FA page before finishing this response). I don't know how great Weasyl is, but it does seem like the site that would best serve the FA malcontents who have your mentality. It's regrettable the furry subculture is factionalized to this extent, but, apparently it's necessary.
Great going, Dragoneer. You're even making your belligerently anti-cub/zoo core leave in large numbers. *chuckles as he watches the conflagration*
Please read the facts before deciding someones guilt. Don't just go with what your friends tell you. Do the research yourself.
Start with these facts:
1: Zaush has never been charged with rape.
2: These allegations were never taken to the police, they were sent to FA staff instead.
3: These allegations are over 4 years old. People only care about it now because Zaush is part of FA staff,
4: The only "evidence" for any crime are just word-of-mouth allegations.
5: FA has made this journal address the issue and are allowing you people to talk openly about here in the comments.
1-2. a majority of rape cases never go reported.
3. most people actually didn't stop caring. it's just a larger issue than ever now because zaush is being put in a position of power, one that can easily be abused.
4. a recent study suggests that only 0.6 percent of rape allegations turn out to be false.
please educate yourself on rape culture and the entire matter at hand. it seems the gross majority of furries need to do this.
Please do not generalize people like this. It is bad character.
Sorry, try again.
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/.....rape_claims_a/
There is a small minority of claims that we can be reasonably sure are false. There is a slightly less small minority of claims that we can be reasonably sure are true. The vast majority fall into a grey area, that we do not know whether they are true or false.
In other words, it is just as false to say "Only 6% of rape claims are proven false, so the rest are true" as it is to say "Only 10-15% of rape claims are proven true and result in conviction, so the rest are false."
try citing an actual source like an adult next time.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/.....march_2013.pdf
it is just as false to say "Only 6% of rape claims are proven false, so the rest are true" as it is to say "Only 10-15% of rape claims are proven true and result in conviction, so the rest are false."
It doens't matter what website it came from, how is that not a valid point?
Other people have put up other sites that gave much different numbers, but I am sure they were from "biased" sites as well.
Calling a site biased is easy, but ironically enough, that doeskin make it true..
Does that harken back to the original point, perhaps?
I'd be more civil with you didn't constantly spew bile all over these journals repeatedly with your nonsense. You're not entitled to be treated well when all you do is constantly try to get a rise out of people by spewing the same thing over and over again.
You can hate me all you want, but that doesn't mean that my opinion is any more or less valid than anyone's on here.
You know what they about options being like..
I made some arguments, backed up with facts. Whether or not you agree with them? I don't honestly care.
I don't hate you, but I hate your actions, your words, and your closed minded stance on this whole situation.
Fuck off using that saying about opinions because it's gone well past that and you already KNOW that.
You made some weak arguments which you've repeated like a parrot over and over again. The evidence you've give has not been enough to dissuade anyone from what they believe.
Also, you do care what people think since you CONSTANTLY keep going out of your way to shove your own baseless stance at other people. You use a lot of confirmation bias to prove your point as well as pandering to the people that are already up in arms crusading in defense of someone who they do not know for sure is or is not one thing or another.
You should honestly just stop commenting because it's getting really old seeing you practically copy and paste the same thing over and over again in an attempt to lessen what someone else says in defense of someone else. I highly doubt you'd take the time to actually make a bunch of valid points and re-enforce them with actual facts from credible sources as well as multiple other sources to actually prove that it's not just some lucky one-shot of information proving something you already have a bias about.
Everything you've done in these journals has always had a bias and you've expressed it with a passive aggressive tone just to piss people off. Your credibility as someone that even cares and understands anything about the situation is pretty weak in my eyes. You don't come off as someone that's genuinely concerned about shit. All I see is someone that doesn't care and is willing to piss people off to try and debunk what they say by calling them by implying immaturity and/or claiming that their information is wrong without actually say WHY it's wrong.
You say I am closed minded, when the people who are rushing to judge this person so quickly when we have NO IDEA what really happened are the closed minded ones.
If you don't like me commenting, don't read what I have to say, or even better, take a step back and just stop reading this whole journal. I think you are getting way too worked up about this argument.
I love how you keep saying *I* have a bias and *I* have weak arguments. This whole page is RIFE with bias, starting, as I said with the people who are so quick to judge.
I never implied immaturity to ANYONE. I have not called anyone a single name, or insulted anyone, even when it has been done to me.
I am concerned because this is *MY* website too, and its just sad to see it torn apart from the inside out.
- Lack of proof is only an issue because the information has been deleted since the incident occurred as well as first hand witnesses. The "lack of proof" is also why rapists often get away with it because there's no hard proof of it and it's hard to make a case on he said she said. It not usually until more people are hurt by one individual that enough personal accounts becomes proof of a serial rapist and sexual offender. It usually escalates more and more until it turns violent when all of it is finally looked for a conviction and sentenced for multiple accounts of sexual assault. However, he said she said does work in court due to polygraph tests and enough evidence can convict someone if you can prove to the judge and jury that it happened.
In short, yeah, your argument is weak since multiple people who are unrelated to each other have come forward about the situation that have no debatable past or know behavior issues. So the sources are from people that have encountered him and do not have any sort of active connection with each other. All of the events occurred in person and not over the internet so the proof is with the people themselves and not online. Any proof against these claims has no bases since no one claiming things is confirming their validity. Also, the information points towards it being true merely by how everything has been written. People have a tenancy to exclude themselves from the situation and use vague descriptive words to address themselves while over detailing everything that takes them out of the situation and make themselves look good.
"You say I am closed minded, when the people who are rushing to judge this person so quickly when we have NO IDEA what really happened are the closed minded ones."
- Saying this applies only to some and not everyone. Saying this right here is a general fogging of the situation by trying to broaden it so much it becomes inconclusive. While it is true that there are a lot of people who do not know what happened there are enough people that doubt everything based on the information that's already been given. The individual in question has not come forward and directly addressed any of these things. The admins have chose to hide and try to talk around the issue. While one might claim it's for legality sake it still is, without a doubt, a very shady and questionable thing to do. You cannot justify any of the actions of the site admins or the community's negative reaction of just trying to brush it off as none of their business. The uproar isn't only about what someone has been accused of doing, with more information confirming than denying, but also about the admin's blatant disregard for their duties and the community by mishandling issue after issue that's caused many people to leave over the years. This is not the only time something has happened and the admins did such a piss poor job at handling the situation and tried to hide everything by destroying evidence. The argument that people are close minded is moot when the information, past events, and current behavior with events is highly damning more then anything.
"If you don't like me commenting, don't read what I have to say, or even better, take a step back and just stop reading this whole journal. I think you are getting way too worked up about this argument."
- I've been quiet for a long time about this kind of thing and honestly.. FUCK YOU. The bullshit statement of "Don't read it if you don't like it" doesn't apply here. I'm calling you out on your shit because I've had enough of it. You can have your opinion and you can freely express yourself, but I will not sit by when you repeatedly attack people and their claims with your passive aggressive bullshit. Stop trying to sound intelligent and mature after you openly try to shoot everyone down on their comments. It's not like you're replying to comments made directly towards YOU.. you're going out of your way to reply to other people's comments constantly doing the same thing. If you said you piece and kept to yourself I'd be fine, but you're going out of your way to stir shit up and I'm calling you out on it right now. Fucking STOP IT. You've made it clear enough on how you feel so kindly quit being a little shit about it by repeatedly parroting yourself all over everyone's comments.
"I love how you keep saying *I* have a bias and *I* have weak arguments. This whole page is RIFE with bias, starting, as I said with the people who are so quick to judge. "
- Don't you DARE fucking try to lessen your bias by comparing yourself to everyone else. You are blatantly trying to lessen the fact that you have a bias by using everyone else that has one to make it acceptable that you have a bias regardless of what your bias is. I'm holding YOU accountable for your own actions and not everyone else's because you've chosen to been one of several others being really extreme about it in a disgusting way. Your bias has a morally and socially unacceptable stance because you'd rather keep the status quo that nothing is wrong, everything is fine, and no one's done anything wrong because no one has proven anything that makes ME believe. In the past you'd be one of those people that would have loved and blindly followed Hitler up until he invaded countries and attempted genocide and retort with something that dismisses the fact that you never ONCE questioned ANYTHING and that, prior to something bad that happened, you were at their every defense because no one could prove anything.
"I never implied immaturity to ANYONE. I have not called anyone a single name, or insulted anyone, even when it has been done to me. "
- This might work on other people, but I can see right through this. You can go right ahead and FUCK YOURSELF with a please and thank you. You have on multiple accounts implied immaturity and other things in the most obvious of ways. The way you word the sentence is irrelevant and you can't defend yourself on this one because the context in which you've commented and replied confirms you were implying things while attempting to make yourself sound better while saying people are reading into it. No, FUCK YOU. You have blatantly implied different things while trying to give yourself a "holier than thou" attitude. You are the same as everyone else and NOTHING is going to make you better then anyone for anything ever. While you might know something someone doesn't or even use something else as proof you know more you are never going to be better then anyone else. Stop acting like you know better and trying to belittle and shut other people down. The admins won't call you out, but I FUCKING WILL.
"I am concerned because this is *MY* website too, and its just sad to see it torn apart from the inside out."
- Seriously? SERIOUSLY? You're a joke. This is OUR website you entitled little asshat. The website's admins are tearing this site apart themselves. Oh, and before you chime in with "But they own it" or "They run it" or some other similar shit.. let me educate you, since you seem so prone to do it yourself to others, that if FA has no user base or members the site will fail and cease to exist. The members of the site that use it make it succeed and it's the job of the admins to do things in the best interest of the community as a whole. Also, as a side note.. regardless of the situation.. just because something is still running or continues to function doesn't make it right. People in Africa have their limbs cut off to show that they're property of a Guerrilla Military power or some warring tribe that's taken slaves. It still happens today.. so does that make it right? NO, no it does not.
Just because you post a lot, that doesn't make you more intelligent. Sometimes what needs to be said can be summed up rather succinctly.
Once again, you attack me in an attempt to lessen the validity of what I said, which didn't work by the way. You have used language and personal attacks when I did no such ting to you, making your argument look more like a personal vendetta than an actual argument.
You say that multiple people have come forward, as far as I can see, only two have, and one of those was discounted, that was discussed elsewhere in this thread, so that really just leaves the one accusation.
Past events about other things that have happened on this site have NOTHING to do with his guilt or innocence. Was it handled badly on all sides? HELL YES. What is done is done, There is nothing that an fix that, the admins didn't handle it well, but that still doesn't prove or disprove his guilt.
Ironically you call me out for commenting on other people's comments what that was EXACTLY what you did here. Kinda invalidates what you said about that.
If you think the admin's are tearing the site apart, then leave. No one is making you stay. Maybe they are, and maybe they aren't. This place has weathered A LOT of furry drama, and I bet this wont be the last. It will all calm down soon, and we will move onto the next thing that catches our 5 second attention span.
As for the rest of what you said, like I said before, you need to step back away from this, you are really blowing this whole discussion way out of proportion.
We can talk on here all we want, but that won't change anything. We have already seen that.
- Real cute
"Just because you post a lot, that doesn't make you more intelligent. Sometimes what needs to be said can be summed up rather succinctly."
- While this may be true it's also an attempt to shadow what I've said as a whole. While short and to the point is effective it often omits and leaves things out. Since you have a tendency to ignore certain things I wanted to make sure you knew what I was saying as well as anyone else reading these comments.
"Once again, you attack me in an attempt to lessen the validity of what I said, which didn't work by the way. You have used language and personal attacks when I did no such ting to you, making your argument look more like a personal vendetta than an actual argument."
- Get off your high horse. I simply made it clear I was directing everything at you rather then using a passive aggressive tone to attempt to protect myself like you have been doing. You'll never acknowledge it, but I've made the point transparent for everyone to see. I don't care how it makes me look in this instance because it's now in the open. If no one want to correct you or call you out.. then fine, I've said my piece about you.
"You say that multiple people have come forward, as far as I can see, only two have, and one of those was discounted, that was discussed elsewhere in this thread, so that really just leaves the one accusation."
- Bullshit, you know that's not the truth.
"Past events about other things that have happened on this site have NOTHING to do with his guilt or innocence. Was it handled badly on all sides? HELL YES. What is done is done, There is nothing that an fix that, the admins didn't handle it well, but that still doesn't prove or disprove his guilt."
- Bullshit again. When someone is pulled into an investigation they use all past incidents to see if their is a trend of violence in that individual. In a court of law if you have a history of problems it's going to enough to damn your image and there's nothing you can do about it. You are accountable for you actions FOREVER. The past my be the past and forgotten, BUT IT DOESN'T GO AWAY. Just like scars they'll only fade, but never go away.
"Ironically you call me out for commenting on other people's comments what that was EXACTLY what you did here. Kinda invalidates what you said about that."
- Really? Oh sure omit the fact that I said I was calling you out for a specific behavior just because I'm doing something so general it applies to everyone. You can't defend yourself with that statement, period. This had nothing to do with people making comments on other people's comments. This has to do with me calling you out of the purpose and behavior you've shown when replying to other people's comments. All I'm doing is returning to you what you've been doing to everyone else and calling you out on it. You cannot debase my point by saying I'm doing it too because I'm specifically calling you out on it and said so in the beginning once you made me feel inclined to respond more in-depth.
"If you think the admin's are tearing the site apart, then leave. No one is making you stay. Maybe they are, and maybe they aren't. This place has weathered A LOT of furry drama, and I bet this wont be the last. It will all calm down soon, and we will move onto the next thing that catches our 5 second attention span."
- Sure, use a general statement to ignore the whole purpose of what I said. Ignorance is bliss.
"As for the rest of what you said, like I said before, you need to step back away from this, you are really blowing this whole discussion way out of proportion."
- Fuck off, you've been doing the same shit this entire time. What? Because I'm directing it at you it suddenly isn't cool? You can't seriously expect that you can be a hypocrite and not have someone say something about it. You're not blowing things out of proportion you're straight up ignoring everything like you have no mind of your own to make a more educated decision and stick to the same rhetoric over and over again. Same tactics. Same opinions. Same results.
"We can talk on here all we want, but that won't change anything. We have already seen that."
- No, you and others have proven they will not change. They have proven what they stand for and what they believe in. I'm not leaving to support the few that cannot leave, but I fully support those that leave as well. FA will burn itself down to the ground and the community is allowing it to happen. I've seen it happen several times before, but this is the first time it's ever been over as serious of an allegation as this and with a community this unemphatic and inhuman.
I've said my bit and will not be saying any more about this with you in particular on this string of comments.
You keep accuse me of being passive/aggressive which is a lame argument to start. I have been stating my opinion, nothing more, and nothing less. there is nothing "passive/aggressive about what I have been posting.
I know the truth is not known by you or me, it is only known by the two people who were involved. That is what I am trying to get at, so many say that he is guilty when we really don't know and never will, so it is unfair to assume guilt without the proper knowledge.
You say that this has nothing to do with people making comments on other people's comments, yet that is EXACTLY what you accused me of, and then when I call you out on it- that you did the EXACT SAME THING, now you say that isn't what it's about any more? Um, OK.
You also talk about making an informed decision. I am. I made the decision that we don't have enough evidence to damn a man and make him a furry pariah. That seems much more informed that damning a man because of fairly suspect evidence. It seems to me that more people have no mind here and are quick to judge him based on their own uninformed decisions.
Way to take your ball and go home. Taking the "moral high ground" by saying "I wont respond. " Looks more like quitting.
I never said I wouldn't reply to your comments I'm just done talking to a wall about the topic at which started this whole thing. I'll still reply if you insist on continuing to repeat yourself. However you saying "I have been stating my opinion, nothing more, and nothing less." is passive aggressiveness when used in that context.
I've yet to see you address anything directly and definitely. You're always indirect and evasive in your statements. I made myself clear about what I was talking about, but you keep using general information to cover yourself. Do you have something to hide and cover up? Afraid to speak your mind?
How am I indirect? I am directly saying that I don't believe what was said in those notes are enough to convict him. How is that indirect at all? That is making myself PERFECTLY clear.
You keep trying to saying I am evasive, what am I evading? I don't think we should damn him for that leaked document that came out, that is pretty damn straight forward.
You are just arguing for the sake of arguing, what you are saying doesn't even make any sense.
I have spoken my mind multiple times both to you, and to others on here. My opinion is that it is stupid to damn him for this one piece of "evidence". Is that not clear?
It isn't my fault if you are not smart enough to understand the words I am typing on the page. There ya go, from "passive aggressive" to just aggressive. You like that better?
And yet again, proof that you need to get the last word. Wanna stop taking? Stop responding.
http://comphacker.org/comp/engl338/.....2/20090830.gif
And just from an engineer's viewpoint... Is that 0.6% (because just 0.6 would mean 60%) of all reported cases? Of all cases that reached trial? Or appealed cases after a guilty decision?
they don't care what the community thinks
men doing what men do best, ignore and deny issues
and zaush being the rapist that he is, getting away with his crimes because the staff doesn't want to own up
good luck getting back everyone who left due to your ego's <3
I understand that you are angry, and I'm thankful that something is being done, but do not go off on my gender and paint us all under one brush just because some people did stuff to you in the past. Just please calm down with the anger, it does not solve anything
A better remark to their post would be something along the lines of "people may not trust the validity of your statement if you show gender bias." Directly saying that men just won't like someone's actions, on the other hand, doubles back to issues that require feminism in the first place.
I hate to fall back to a rape subject after seeing so much of it recently, but what you have stated is exactly why people battle so strongly against victim blaming when it comes to rape cases. It not only demeans the victim, but it also paints men in general as animalistic barbarians that "just can't help themselves," so it does no one any favors (other than rapists.)
But I must say I can't completely fault Demonwaffle on their statement because it comes from a minority expressing disdain towards a higher power group. We all know that not all men are bad, but the issue stands that our society is currently a patriarchy and favors men over women in many regards. And so it's best to read these sort of statements like you would any general "I hate people" statement. You understand that they do not mean the entire group, but still feel bothered by a large chunk of it. The same goes for POC individuals expressing disdain towards white folks.
I'm honestly not trying to silence victims as a victim myself, but, when you have death threats thrown at you for not joining in the cause on other places, it feels like it's getting way overboard, to the point where i want nothing to do with said people anymore. Nothing against them and they have my support as individual people, but it's getting crazy now.
You have a good point, though until I see some levelheadedness come about from them, I'll say my piece to them and be on my way. I can say that you are being mature here about the situation, so you have my respect
And I'm very sorry to hear that you are a victim of such a terrible situation, and I wish you the best possible mental health now and in the future.
And thank you for the support . Even though I had to do alot of character development afterwards when everything was in order, It has made me into a much better/stronger person. I won't deny that i still feel a little pain here and there when that word is brought up, but, if someone asks about it, i mostly will give them the full story of what happened and explain to my best ability.
Even though i don't want to bog you down with past history of myself, I will also say that it was very hard to tell this to my family when my term in the military was up, as in when they found out, they had a mixture of "wait this happened to our son? Why were we not advised?" to randomly blaming me for not standing up to that woman (right after explaining I could do nothing and my job was on the line), and ending with "Well since you are gay, do you hate all women for what this person did to you?". With some siting down and discussing what happened and clearing up confusion, my family has now supported me because this was a disgusting thing to happen to their son.
I'm thankful to have the courage to gather strength over the course of some years, and very thankful that there are people here and in the real world that can support me in the best way they can.
That's good that your family understands now, though, even if it was a bit rough getting them to do so. :)
Now I think I'll just sit back and bask in the warmth of this flame war.
oh, and an option for mass unwatching because, seriously, I'm watching way too many people to go through them one by one and unwatch the ones that have stopped doing anything, or abandoned accounts.
also a nuke notes option.
So if they weren't in communication with site staff then just who did they ask permission to help?
Sorry, but it's incredibly poorly written to say "They didn't contact us but they asked permission from us".
If you want to say that they asked permission but were not in contact with site staff after that point then that's fine, but that's not what the newspost says.
All of you are rapists. I am going to track down your employer, all of you, and tell them that you are a rapist, that you raped my underaged friend, are a pedophile, a sexual deviant, and a bastard/bitch of society. And then I'm going to ruin your good name, make sure you can never have a job or get money again, and then - and only then - will I stop.
Now, before you start flaming me for this, please don't. This is EXACTLY what you are all doing to Zaush. Every single one of you seems to be wholeheartedly against Zaush, when really, it is the fault of the female involved for traveling to him in the first place and ignoring her gut instinct. I am NOT by any means defending ANYONE. I'm just saying, blame rests with both parties here.
Go read a book called "Little Boy Who Cried Wolf". This feels like something similar.
"Oh, but someone else has done it too!" Did you ever think that A) The two may be the same, B) The two may know each other, or C) She's just spreading drama? If this were anything but rape, would you all still be as passionate about it? Probably not.
All of you sicken the fuck out of me. Sorry, but you do. Those who didn't do your research, screw off and come back when you've done it. Those who did and formed your genuine opinion based ONLY on the facts without regard to hearsay, I applaud your effort and respectfully disagree if you think Zaush is entirely to blame.
Now, if Zaush had flown out to the female involved, THEN all of this happened? I'd possibly change my tune. Hell, I probably would. Because that would definitely make him a stalker who was tracking down his next prey. IF HE DID IT!!!!
I've got so damn much to say on this matter, but I won't speak my entire mind. You'd all be calling for MY ban from the site, and it would take up a whole 3 kilobytes of server space, instead of just half or 1.
Also, this. Popufur speaks on popufur. 2_gryphon taking about Zaush.
Seriously, people. So Zaush is accused of having sex with a girl "against her will" (I will -NOT- call ti Rape, because she went there of her own free will, stayed of her own free will. She could have easily called the police to come help her to the door to leave if she was afraid), and we all wnat to ruin his life and employment history by making him lose a job he JUST got, a job he can put on a resume.
Now I'll speak critically about Zaush, based from what I've heard. Zaush used his popularity in the wrong manner to coerce a woman into having sex with him and made numerous unwelcome sexual advances against her. That's not rape, but it is still immoral. If he really did it, he only has himself to live with, and the shame thereof. Ten, fifteen, twenty years from now when he looks back on what he did, he can hang his head in shame.
From the little I've read, the current site is coded so poorly that it either has to be replaced entirely or not at all. Basically the data will be migrated to new site, and the site's current code will be thrown away (well, probably kept around for a while, in case a rollback is needed).
Give me your wretched refuse, the too coorazy for you, your unloved and those who feel unloved.
Let them look at the beauty of the creatures, they share the world with, and agree for once that it is good in some regards.
And then let them create things, let them shine the light of their art and creativity until at last
they will no longer be able to deny the beauty they have contributed.
Let them have a chance not to be out in the naked, if they do not feel like working at some
shitty fast food place or kissing their way up some ahole's you name it.
Let them gain the self-esteem over their creations to speak: I deserve better than what I have been coerced into.
All the friends made over here, all the caring for each other, the encouragement reaching far into the real and every day world.
And if they feel like no longer doing furry stuff, let them go. Let them grow outside the pot.
This is a platform, where everything that keeps people from choosing and staying in bad and abusive relationships at home
and at work should be growing! And there are a hell of a lot out there. On second thought, make that five hells.
More power to the site, which makes this possible in the future, which ever site this may be!
As light-heartedly as this started out, we have to go on with caution AND reason.
Some furries don't feel like staying or running away, some feel like fighting.
And now excuse me, I gotta go poop some rainbows.
got to absorb the reads
shhh
I'll get the drinks
DON'T YOU WANNA
WANT A FANTA!
I have some fish sticks in my freezer now.. I think you kinda got me jonesing for them.. damn you! *shakes fist*
LOL that could *SO* be taken as a double entendre.
Furries ruin everything.
Jesus Christ you'd think it would be more beneficial to remove such a person from the staff to avoid any more controversy or to reassure those who feel personally disgusted and uncomfortable about how poorly things have been handled, that the site is at least somewhat attempting to rectify things.
This is what I'm gathering from FurAffinity thus far.
Anything with characters under "18 human years of age" that is a baby, chibi, cute, cuddly, young, or even remotely LOOKS young or sends off the vibe of possible cub THAT IS PORN will immediately get you banned from this site regardless of the artist's drawing style, if the characters are feral or not, or if age even applies.
There is a potential of a rapist in the staff, but there's no evidence to suggest if he is or is not, and therefore is just one big controversial pile of scat that's been circulating around the site like it's Garbage Day, and people refuse to let it go because RAPE IS A BAD THING. I GET that rape is a bad thing. Nobody should have to be subject to it. But quite frankly, things like this happen and once they DO happen, it's done, move on.
FurAffinity runs a BUSINESS, NOT A GODDAMN COMMUNITY. Hmm. This is starting to leave a VERY nasty, DEVIOUS *cough cough* taste in my mouth, I can't imagine why, though.
They don't seem to care that I'm a sarcastic butt that willingly calls them out on things that could be easily exploited and seem unreasonable.
. . .
Wait, why am I still here again? OH, THAT'S RIGHT, all of my favorite artists DON'T HAVE ACCOUNTS ON OTHER FURRY SITES. And if they do, THEY NEVER UPLOAD THERE.
So what FurAffinity is trying to get across to me is that I'm stuck here, waiting to be banned for some arbitrarily unreasonable thing before I can permanently close shop and migrate to Inkbunny.
FurAffinity runs a BUSINESS, NOT A GODDAMN COMMUNITY.
Dwight.False.jpg
I believe it was stated during the new AUP changes regarding YCHs and the like. Damned if I could remember where he said it, but he did.
So FA is not a business, it's a community (Or at least, it tries to be)
...I'm just mad that they decided to ban anything that shares a remote semblance to cub porn all because "Affiliates don't like that kind of stuff". If my affiliates didn't like what my users were doing, I'd tell them that I monitor what's posted on my site and if they don't like it, they can find someone else.
I'M STILL MAD ABOUT THE CUB STUFF. Yes, that's what affects me the most on this site. The rest is just the community blowing things far out of proportion to me. Rape is bad, yeah we get it, WHY DON'T WE SETTLE IT LIKE CIVILIZED PEOPLE?
I hope that you are referring to accusations and drama with this sentence, not rape. Rape isn't one of those crimes that just "goes away" with time, as it leaves lasting effects on the victims. The wording of your comment here makes it seem like rape is something worth overlooking...
But then again, I guess I haven't really given enough time for people to calm down yet and instead snapped and started ranting, so don't mind me.
There's no harm in ranting. Everyone has an opinion and a voice worth sharing. This matter involved the community, so I think it's worth hearing what people of the community have to say.
(But this is FurAffinity. I don't really have the highest of expectations.)
Don't care about what's goin on? Think it's perfectly ok? Don't leave.
Its simple.
There's more than one furry website now you have a choice. Ween yourself if ya have to.
Just, this situation, is just going in circles. People are gonna agree, and other people aren't, spare yourself the time and stop trying to make them have the same opinion as you. It's rude.
I'm not stating where i stand because i know somebody's gonna look at the comment, completley ignore what i jsut said, and still pressure their thoughts onto me.
Plus it'd make me a big hypocrite to have an argument on the matter either.
xbox one is better than ps4
Justin bieber is better than Michael jackson
obama is win
Regardless if Zaush did or did not sexually assault another person, the rumor remains. He's going to be branded as a pariah of the fandom, in fact, he virtually already is. Having seen the way he's handled these accusations on his Twitter (which is now protected), I find it difficult to believe that he's worth keeping on the team. Again, regardless of whether or not he actually committed a serious crime, he still seems to have issues in handling criticism towards himself.
You can also tell us that you weren't trying to silence the rumors, but most still aren't going to believe it. Trying to silence your users by removing their comments is unprofessional, especially from a website that is essentially the very hub of the furry fandom. Of course, the users who began to start this "witch hunt" are at fault as well, especially when the concerns could have been brought up privately at first.
Personally, it's my opinion that Zaush needs to be removed from the Staff Team, whether or not the accusations against him are true. People aren't going to trust him unless he provides a 100% reason for people to trust him again. Keeping him on the staff team is only making the issue worse and is going to deepen the distrust for FA's staff even more.
"Our primary goal in 2014 is to give a breath of fresh air to the site, the administration, and the community."
By keeping questionable members of staff on team, on the basis of 'no proof' (which, let me tell you, is scraping the bottom of the barrel for an excuse to cover your own backs half arsedly) despite the fact allegations are just as serious, especially in this 'don't ask, don't tell' day and age of victim shaming and silencing.
You have already fallen flat at this hurdle by doing what we all expected, keeping a rapist on your team.
"Over the course of the next twelve months, we plan on overhauling many aspects of the site."
Just like you've promised before, and has been handled terribly. Not to mention the fact Zaush has proven to have no skills in coding, once again proving that Dragoneer cares nothing for anything but circlejerking his group of friends, albeit that they have no skills when previous teams were more than competent, and could of got something done. The phoniex, a cliche name, is going to crash and burn- and not rise from the ashes.
"as we have started recently by improving transparency and openness with the community."
Now, this one, this makes me laugh.
You have done nothing to improve transparency, it took you long enough to come out and admit you were keeping questionable people on staff after this whole scandal kicked off. You have blocked users just for mentioning his name, like he's Voldemort. You have blocked users scared for their safety, trying desperately to show you proof. This is not 'harrassment', you are harrassing them by silencing crimes and shoving them under the rug.
Go look at your other journals
Hidden comments, hidden comments everywhere.
Your site is crashing and burning, sadly you tipped the gasoline on yourself.
Now, not saying anyone did anything, because I was not there to witness and the man hasn't been legally tried in court, however, I think it would have been much, much less severe had FA not hidden things, because despite CoC, it's a very, very serious issue that should be able to be discussed.
It would be like hiding comments relating a murder case to a FA user. It's rather touchy information that should not be hidden, nor suspended over.
I've made my own conclusions to the story, and likely wouldn't have been nearly as bothered as I was to begin with if the info had been made available from the start.
No, wrong. It's not okay. First of all, the FA Administration is NOT listening to it's users, by keeping Zaush on and saying "well, it's okay cuz it was only an ACCUSATION", ignoring the facts is not cool. I mean, I guess I should expect it considering Chase was kept on and swept under the rug, but hey. Second, it's feeding into rape culture, yet again. Why the FUCK does the rapist get coddled when the victim is basically being shat on every time Dragoneer opens his mouth? What the FUCK.
I'm looking forward to FA's death, at this point- Weasyl is up and coming and has better features, stronger security, and no rapists on staff. Hell, all it needs is "no rapists on staff" to be superior, christ.
Zaush has no access to any of the information in the production database. This means no personal information beyond what you yourself make available on your profile (and I'd hope you don't fault FA for that!)
You are absolutely in your right to feel uncomfortable or upset or whatever about any decisions made. But the two points mentioned above are whole-cloth rumors. Can we please stop spreading them around? That'd be dandy, thanks.
Also, the update would have been well-released by now, but when the two competing teams merged, Zaush demanded that the better team completely throw out their build instead of working with it. His arrogant behavior (as well as the fact that he just plain sucks) is nothing but trouble for this site.
Nevermind Zaush entirely; the coming update is a visual front-end deal. None of what matters (e.g. glaring security holes) will be fixed so even if the staff dont fuck around themselves, it's only a matter of time until PMs get leaked again
I'm not sure where you get the impression that the update is purely aestethic. As stated in the original announcement, the site will be rebuilt from the ground up, including new database design and entirely new code. It's possible (though we hope nothing serious!) there may be flaws in the new system, but I feel pretty confident promising you they won't be the same flaws.
They have been promising that for half a decade.
As to his competency as a coder, the screencap of Zaush's twitter from the time he was added to the staff explained quite a bit. i am sure that somebody has it, but essentially he asked (paraphrased) "Does anybody know how to write in Node?" I am by no means competent in coding a website, but I know that if my mechanic asked a question on the same level as "how do you do an oil change?" I would certainly question his ability to do any task related to automotive maintenance. I KNOW this is a horrible analogy, but it makes sense to me at least.
Sorta like a mechanic asking how to do an oil change on the latest model Volvo because he's been working with Toyotas for a while now and things changed under Volvo's hood.
Again, I'm not nearly a competent enough coder to make a call one way or another, but I don't find his claims so implausible that they deserve to be discounted out of hand.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/6d5b9574.....nrbo1_1280.jpg
He said he was still trying to wrap his head around it. That doesn't sound like someone who's experienced with it enough to be a lead coder for a project that's as ambitious as Project Phoenix.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/6d5b9574.....nrbo1_1280.jpg
"Trying to wrap [my] head around it all" doesn't leave much open to interpretation.
http://i.imgur.com/KxLGUla.jpg
If your accusations of embezzlement are in regards to what I think they are, there were some statements made that could have been worded better. FA:U raised $10k in donations for NJSPCA, through whatever charity fundraising measure that con has in place, and that money was duly forwarded/donated to the charity. This is something most cons do and the difference is that FA:U happens to have links to a major art site while most other cons do not.
"General ineptitude" is incredibly unspecific, but staff most definitely does not bend or break rules for their own convenience. I can't deny the possibility that it may have happened in the past, as any screening process can let a few bad apples through, but administrators guilty of abusing their position will not remain in that position.
You're welcome to your opinions and if you're unhappy with how the site is run I can do little more than acknowledge the validity of your feelings. I personally do not share your opinion on the overall quality of FA's staff, but I respect your right to it.
If it's not nepotism, then why is Sciggles on the team at all? She has zero ability in being an administrator, and yet here she is, queen of the lands purely by dint of being married to the site's owner - whom, I may add, isn't exactly competent himself. If he were, we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place, now, would we? Regardless, I still dare you to explain why Sciggles blocked me after pretty much flat-out refusing to elaborate upon the discussion of embezzlement.
If your accusations of embezzlement are in regards to what I think they are, there were some statements made that could have been worded better. FA:U raised $10k in donations for NJSPCA, through whatever charity fundraising measure that con has in place, and that money was duly forwarded/donated to the charity. This is something most cons do and the difference is that FA:U happens to have links to a major art site while most other cons do not.
It wasn't, actually - I was referring more to how the site's funding is grossly mismanaged, especially with how little the site seems to be improving based upon the money that's pumped into it. Believe me, I do my research before making claims.
"General ineptitude" is incredibly unspecific, but staff most definitely does not bend or break rules for their own convenience. I can't deny the possibility that it may have happened in the past, as any screening process can let a few bad apples through, but administrators guilty of abusing their position will not remain in that position.
'Most staff don't break the rules' is incredibly unconvincing, coming from a staff member. It has happened, is happening, and will happen again. Why do you think that the majority of the site is up in arms currently?
I can raise the issue of the possibility of keeping some kind of open ledger, but I have no reason to suspect the money is going anywhere but to site upkeep.
I'm slightly confused; I never said "most staff don't break the rules" at any point. A portion of users (I would hesitate to make any claim it's more than 50% of the userbase, personally) appear to be primarily up in arms at the moment because of lacking communication, which we have admitted to, along with other factors that were aggravated by the communication issues.
Sciggles had no reason to block a member simply demanding more transparency in FA's expenditure. If you were in my position, wouldn't that seem just a little like power abuse, hm?
In that situation I might be disappointed and try to get my questions about finances answered through other channels, but the block function is something all users have, so I'm not sure how using it in itself would constitute an abuse of administrative power.
Forgot about Chase sweeping his dog-rape admissions under the rug, did we? Deleting posts that incriminate themselves *IS* an abuse of power. Users only have the ability to "hide" comments, which I can only assume would still allow a member of staff to view the post/comment if need be. The only things we can delete are our own journals, submissions, and shouts on our page. Not comments left in other people's journals, submissions, and the like.
He abused his power by deleting posts that would make him eligible for a ban, and yet he is still a member of staff.
With the multiple bans/suspensions of users for even MENTIONING Zaush, one could only assume that the member of staff behind it was abusing their power. Yet we have zero accountability for actions taken by staff members. When you discipline a user, is YOUR name tied to the ban? I would like to assume not.
Please do not tell us that an administrator or staff member would not remain in that position. Dragoneer's own wife was banned for a miniscule amount of time for doing things that would get any other user a permanent ban.
Staff are very much accountable for their actions; if you have specific suggestions for what aspects of the administrative process you feel users should have more insight into you are very welcome to make suggestions. As we have admitted the situation regarding Phoenix staff was not handled ideally, and there's a lot we could have done better.
I probably chose my words badly; I cannot guarantee that a single instance of misconduct would see someone terminated, nor did I mean to imply that. I'm not really comfortable going into details on this subject, as there are privacy issues etc. involved, but if you are concerned about staff accountability I encourage you to bring it up with Neer as he's the one who makes the final call.
"DO NOT Discuss or Engage in Unlawful Activity - This includes illegal activity such as piracy, streaming copyright content, vandalism, threats of violence, gambling and games of chance (incl. raffles involving the exchange of real money), or discussion/usage of controlled substances. You will receive one (and only one) warning to leave such content off the site. Further, users admitting or found to be engaging in bestiality or pedophilia will be removed from the site."
Dragoneer confirmed that Chase had admitted to engaging in the act of bestiality. Considering that the rule is very clear on the matter, and how he was not removed from the site, let alone from a position of power, shows a clear account of cronyism.
But you still did not answer one question: when a staff member suspends/bans a user, is their name tied to it? As in, if you were to look up which member banned LupineAssassin (first name that came to mind) would it show who banned him? Or is there simply a "ban log" where staff are "required" (read: suppoed to) log who, when, and why they were banned?
I ask because it would show WHO is accountable for taking action against a user and to possibly establish a pattern of power abuse to when the offending staff member, if found guilty in a court of lawl, would be removed as to protect the integrity of the staff team. Let's put it this way, if that kind of system where in place where a staff name is attached to a ban, I am sure that it is one step in the direction of regaining a lot of trust from the userbase.
The "ban log" I had mentioned, was something I had put in place when I helped run a forum. Since phpbb didn't really have a way to log that information, we set up a ban log in the admin/mod only section to give the "who, why, when, and for how long" even if it were the weekly spambot. This system only works if all members of staff were 100% honest and did 100% of their job, where as the backlog of trouble tickets shows that somebody is not doing their job to the best of their ability. Kryphos jokingly banned the comedian, and thankfully he is a rather honest person and got ahead of the controversy before it festered. I've met him, and to my knowledge he is in good moral standing, so I am sure he does his job as a staff member very well. But not everyone is forthcoming when they mess up, especially if a staff member banned somebody for personal reasons, not rule violations.
If you cannot answer this question, I understand and will leave it alone. I do ask that you keep that idea in the back of your head as I would like to think this is one way of quelling any rumors of admin abuse or "revenge bans".
I understand your concerns regarding bans, and I'll include it when I next feel in the mood to natter on about aspects of admin protocol users maybe should know about, but it's a question I am not sure I'm permitted to answer. I want to be upfront with users and help them, so this is very much an issue close to my heart.
There are many contributing reasons for the backlog of tickets, of which turnover/burnout is not an insignificant one, and RL/the fact that we're all volunteers is another. I've said previously to others' concerns on the subject that I'll absolutely own my own periodic shortcomings in that regard, though I'd like to think the underlying reasons are valid.
You will only have half the staff you currently have IF your statement was true.
Somehow I don't really trust aaaaanything they say about the database- they don't even know how to manage their own, they've had TONS of security problems over the years, holes that even their own staff pointed out (and got fired for...) that were never patched... So yeah. I'd say with Wan being a part of the staff and coding staff especially, he can get access if he wants it.
Coding staff that are not working against a production database and have no credentials for the production database aren't really in a position to use their status as coders to gain access to the production database. I can't force you to believe me, of course, or really do anything aside from tell you that this is what's going on.
I'm just saying that the circumstances are pretty rare for the last several years that you would be handing out an address, and while I am not saying it doesn't happen, I find it very unlikely that the majority of users here are in any sort of danger from direct poking into their notes.
If CCP has done so, then I agree if she attracts any attention, she might be in trouble if the address is current, and the staff was actually vindictive (Which I am not going to judge)... I just don't think she *is*, or vast majority of users are.
When it comes to, say, this situation here, the worry is/was (depending on if you believe the staff, which some do and some don't, but that's an entirely different matter altogether), before this announcement, that Zaush would be given admin privs, and would be able to read the notes users would send to each other. Given the screenshots and things shared, there seemed to be a consensus that he liked manipulating girls to try and get into their pants (and while it might go deeper than that, let's stay here on the surface just for sake of example since it may or may not be true either way) and they don't like the idea of, say, someone talking about boyfriend troubles or something like that in a note to their friend or whatever, and Zaush seeing that and trying to capitalize on it. That's partly where this worry, unwarranted or not, comes from, the idea that an admin, no matter who, can take a note and use it as ammo against someone for any reason.
If you have left information that you actually cared about that can get you blackmailed, does it really matter *who* has that information? Should you not have been discussing your indiscretions or crimes in the first place? How does this place differ from any other place in this regard? How could you have been sure that the person on the other end of the conversation actually wouldn't share said information?
Why are you, as a user, not being cautious enough?
The problem with this argument that Admins can be stealing information and using it against you is that if that kind of information exists, than you are ultimately responsible for the situation that your in. So unless it's actually a crime you are trying to hide, then them using it just becomes a case of your own personal vanity getting in the way. If it was a crime that they are blackmailing you with, then why did you tell anyone else? If the person you shared this information with used it against you, then who would you be blaming then?
Can you see why I find this problem a little ludicrous? It's not a problem, unless you actually have done something wrong. Which means you should have never told anyone in the first place.
Yes, I am aware that this has not always been the case, but it is the case now, and perpetuating rumors that we can just go through your notes at our leisure isn't really helping anything. Can we please not do that?
I see what you're saying, and you have a good point, but unfortunately in many cases of miscommunication, the first and biggest hurdle is figuring out exactly where the miscommunication lies. Apparently we tripped over that one this time.
Can we please not go around spreading misinformation and stirring things up?
As with many other FA users (considering Weasyl's explosive growth lately), I plan on leaving FA or at the very least moving most of my activity elsewhere.
lol
If you think he is guilty, prove it.
See how that works?
One rather shady leaked note does not proof make.
that sure is some logic you got there. I am done arguing with people like you.
I would rather pop hemorrhoids than listen to your sick banter for a minute longer.
I am not going a damn a person on what one person told another person on a furry site. This whole journal shows that furries are all about drama, and it proves that furries will do a lot of things to dredge more drama up.
Cause that gets something done, right?
She did not even claim there was rape - Z's claims are backed with chatlogs and they show that they both entered in a sexual relationship willingly, and when she was having doubts he let it go.
The victim's accusations were also backed by chatlogs, that were actually publically available, and nobody had to go PM them for them. Additionally, there are other victims that have spoken up, and other targets who have pointed out they experienced this behavior from Zaush. Sorry, but his "I'm just a lonely flirty guy~ tee hee~" act does not really work.
and remember, the victim NEVER CLAIMED RAPE - it wasn't until the infamous "YiffyLeaks" (as it's been called) where private leaked notes were shown to the public.
No one would have known ANYTHING about this if it weren't for that.
Sleazy? Sure. But not rape, and every person that goes around calling him that is doing something wrong as well - character assassination.
Even if they actually did it and are 100% guilty; they STILL have the right for a fair speedy trial in court, with a jury of selected peers.
Jerry Sandusky had a trial, was legally represented and had a jury of select peers.
THAT is Justice.
THIS - is just mob mentality.
oh okay
so, so, SO incredibly glad I have never posted any personal information here, privately or otherwise.
Please be safe, people.
I know that'll offend someone though, somewhere here, somehow.
It's not just the Doctor Phil thing I'm worries about..... It's also about the Admin issue, IN a different Perspective.. I am focusing on the real manifesting, festering wound we have created on the Fandoms Body that everyone looks at.
But this is something that is wrong with us in the community, and it's going to make us look like we all enjoy drama and accept people that the common everyday, working family, country patriot, is going to tune into this show, share it with their family, friends, through youtube even,
And most of them may not even understand what the internet is like, like the older generations, still in the dark, sick 'humor'
These people are Going to Hear about all this drama, and already as it is, a lot of people THINK furries are too accepting! And without having the knowledge we have, knowing that Not everything is true what you hear and read on the internet is going to believe this....
It's not what goes on in the community that bothers me, it's how it reacts to such extremes, causing a large eruption of chaos, bright enough to bring the looking eyes into our 'subculture/fandom' we have worked good and hard to keep going well.... And if it hits the right time, at the right moment, We all could be labeled as something that we'll regret. I know we already have a pretty pathetic image as it is... And a lot of us are working for the good, running for causes, fursuiting for donations and fun events, doing that...
But what is there to be when the base of the fandom itself, when we get right down to it, is rotten... and we collapse on our self... right there... for everyone to watch, for our mother, for our grandparent, or even that cool boss... We will be imaged as this, and just this.
No one can keep to themselves anymore, everyone has to shove (Forgive me for this figure of speech) But Dicks, down our throats, like we have no other option but their way or we won't be right until we see it their way because the ignorance and selfishness is ripping ourselves apart...
Everyone is so blind and numb in the skull because they don't want to realize that WE as a new and up coming thing, just another community, just like any other, are putting the wrong example, that it's causing entertainment and just not a good Documentary, for these things people can learn from...
We are equivalent to a jester, being. Being the fool and being ridiculous with our own 'thoughts' that its so immature, that it's dumb and marked as a Dark Entertainment we are giving TO the media who finds easy money through this way.
Our fandom can be so selfish, not weighing the facts that maybe Yes! Just maybe someone that at the time was so angry, so much an ass hole something was said because it was their only selfish way out of the way to get past and look good for someone else's eyes...
It's not about us anymore... We all want attention so badly, that it's hurting us. We're selfish, we want the wrong spot light on people.
And others, are just spitting what they want because of their own anger, their own accepting choices, that we also have became a bitter community.
I am sorry I went on about this, but it's been seriously on my nerves that the one thing I look for, the positive, is being torn down by something so big, and so bright, that I get distracted... I can usually brush off a lot of stuff, but with everything right now, it's sad that even how your own friends are turning on you in the community because you simply just don't care about either side, and just want the calmness and real focus of what the website was made for...
It's seriously has became a Spot light thing. So many people want it... So many people want to be heard... they do it in the wrong way...
We are human though, we are built for disaster unless people really buckle down and find real problems of our own instead of ones that make them
Yeah, I don't think we have to worry about the 'straight-ups' ever even getting this far. It's only going past us because we're taking it everywhere outside of the site we seem to be able to, including Tweeter.
well no surprises there go fuck yourself admins
Cheers
Anyways for Dragoneer the main and original focus on the journal, ol' Globox wishes ya' luck on cleaning this all up and with project phoenix.
Jesus Christ.
And it starts with the community, they love drama.
stop beating around the bush
if you wont get rid of them for their actions, then hell get rid of them for their pr
you know how many people know about all of these issues and how much of a terrible name they've caused you
less people = less revenue
less revenue = lest stuff to handle all of the site issues as well as the problems with yours
eliminate the problem and not only will it slowly creepy back to normal days, people will start seeing you guys have a spine
and are actually truthful in your promises
it's just the same group of users that keep complaining and are making this drama drag out. They've done this for years and they'll keep on doing it.
you are fueling the flames you're talking shit about, if you want to stop then stop giving it your attention
respect is earned, not given
Never go Full-Fonzie. B^)
Gotcha.....
Well I am gone and never coming back until every single last one of you get a grip and start ACTING like responsible people..
Zaush defenders.
Those that want zaush gone and the FA staff to wake up and stop defending the populars.
The group of people that have no idea what's going on (somehow) or don't care at all.
And you have the groups wrong. Just because someone doesn't believe the information doesn't make them a Zaush defender. It makes them wary of suspect information.
Everyone has made mistakes in the past, EVEN YOU.
If you are leaving FA, put a not and a link on your journal and be gone. If you post it here, you are just looking for attention. What I was doing was pointing this out.
I can tell you, I SEVERELY doubt it.
You want to let the admins know how you feel? talk to them directly.
Now are they listening to the people complaining? Who knows.
Sending them a note is has MUCH better chance of getting read than in this mess.
"As I said before, no need to post an "I'm leaving FA!!!!!11111oneoneone" post here"
"The point is that if you are going to leave, then leave. Don't post it here and be a drama-whore."
"If you want people to know that you are leaving, post it to your page."
now you are disputing yourself, do not make me add a laugh track
So.. is anything that I said wrong? I can't force anyone to not post here, as I said before, but I just said that it won't matter because it doesn't change anything.
I have yet to see how this is forcing anyone to do anything.
and yes it is quite frankly is wrong to do that what part of "they are entitled to post their opinions" do you not understand
LOL I don't know how much clearer to make it that I cant control anyone here, and it is absurd to think that something a person posts on a furry website can do otherwise
Oh wait, I have.
"Don't post it here"
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:38213070
i am not talking to you anymore
If you really think me saying "Don't post it in here, post it on your personal page " is *FORCING* people to do something, they there is nothing that can be done for you.
One again IT IS MY OPINION. Apparently this is a hard concept to grasp.
No actual formal charges were pressed, Z-man was never given due process.
This is all just mob mentality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR8JPZlRBZY
http://www.vg247.com/2014/01/22/pho.....headed-to-3ds/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj6PSqjLI_c
Until CAPCOM announces that though we just have to wait for the fan translation project to finish.
You can find a fan translation patch; just google it. (Still in progress; only the first two episodes have been translated)
As they are serious allegations, I would like to see more proof that this is true before I call him a rapist.
As for Fur Affinity's hiring practices, I cant speak to that, as what a person is like really has no bearing on how they work on the site behind the scenes.
As for seeing into the matter, I really don't think it is anyone's business but the accuser and the accused. The rest of us- its really none of our business, but unfortunately this whole thing has made it seem like it is.
Have there been coverups and a lack of communication in the past? HELL YES.
Now if he had DIRECT access to our information (he doesn't) then yes, it is all about our business.
I am not saying they should cover things up, they most certainly should not. but I don't think its really fair for us to judge him on what has come to light.
HE DIDN'T PUT HIS PERSONAL LIFE OUT THERE.. it was leaked.
You have no idea if he did it or not, but you just admitted that you don't really care if he is innocent.
Its already been said that his job on FA DOES NOT give him access to private information here.
2. You can believe that if you like, but I and many others are thoroughly convinced that that is a lie and that he can access whatever private information he likes.
2. Just because people are "convinced", it doesn't make it true. People seem to be "convinced" that he is a rapist as well, that doesn't meant that is true either.
As it has been stated MANY times before, he has NO ACCESS to personal information, so there is NO chance he could use his position to get personal information from users, NOR is there any information that he has or will ever use personal information on this site to victimize anyone.
You are using hearsay and mob mentality to justify your beliefs.
I am also using the logic that it is better not to trust an untrustworthy source (FA admins) that he is not a danger, and encourage people to protect themselves from the threat of intrusion and harassment. If hell has frozen over and they're telling the truth, no damage is done except to the site's reputation. If (or should I say since) they're lying, then changing passwords, deleting notes, abandoning accounts, and otherwise taking precautions against him may prevent real physical or digital attacks on real, living people. The risk/reward matrix just does not favor Zaush here, particularly when he will not be able to accomplish his task due to his inexperience with coding, and his inability to work with others.
I do not have an opinion about this rumor/accusation/whatever you want to call it because it's getting extremely old, I just wanted to say put my 2 cents in
Seems like your seeking attention and starting trouble for not liking what I say and replying to my comment for no reason when it wasn't directed at you.
The question is, out of that 72% how many of those are baseless accusations? The problem is that we will NEVER know, which is a shame. I would guess that the percentage is fairly low for baseless accusations, but it'd be impossible to try to put a number to it because I just have no knowledge about the subject.
And you are very welcome, thanks for being civil back. I will be civil as long as some extends me the same courtesy. :)
Sammymutt
Since you had to be all sensitive and block me, my comment wasn't aimed at you. I was intending it for "wallsofgoo"
Hullo there X3 *waves frantically*
But I am pretty good.. It has been an... interesting day here on FA. Its like a train wreck, literally I have been glued to this all day because it just gets crazier and crazier.
One nice thing from working at home.. I can sneak peeks at FA when things die down here. Woot. (And working in my PJs ain't bad either)
I have to agree... more like a dozen train wrecks in one ^^u And yes, furry drama tends to get out of hand a little too easily. T T
Aww XD Best way to work is in pajamas Hopefully things here can die down soon X3 This all is getting out of hand~
I love my pj pants. I have a pair that is black and says star wars and has darth vader's helmet on it, and the other pair are red and they are plants vs zombies and have zombie heads on em, LOL
However, comfort wise... my favorite is the full suit ones /3
I love them so much They're the best X3
Well, it doesn't surprise me that they do :3 It would be torture for you guys if you didn't! X3
The pole scene is the best~
Omg, I want em!!! X3 We actually have a small replica of the leg lamp XD Too bad it isn't actual size X3
And oh god yes, those two for Christmas decorations... that would be so perfect
Once a rape case reaches the courts, almost 60 per cent of defendants are convicted – a rate higher than some other violent attacks.
This site argues that the "6%" that most people claim is not accurate.
Oh, I know....
*Cough* Attention seeking *cough*
People are becoming nosy in others' business, like you, and it's purely pathetic. I've had enough the fact I lost a good portion of the users I was watching. Then there are the ones out there who persistently try to start arguments that they should not be getting into.
Same thing with college shootings too... you should look in the mirror and say, "Hey, I'm the exact type of person of why these things happen."
Also, if he really did those crimes, then why the Hell is he not in prison? Why did the person complain of his actions on Furaffinity?
Exactly.
It sounds like a load of bullshit."
That was my original comment, and I was going to leave it as that. However, I saw a few users on here having trouble with other ignorant users. I got cocky with the ones who were persistent and basically just go, "prove it, prove it, prove it," for their only validation for their argument (like you).
Now, shove off :)
The comment I showed you was the one I originally posted on here, if you'd scroll down a little :)
As I said, I commented that, then I saw people being the typical wankers that they are, so I hopped on in to help.
So, I snapped. So, get your noses where they belong and shut up already about the goddamn topic.
Have a lovely day.
These accusations have no concern of you, so I think you need to shove off and leave the guy alone.
The mob mentality is strong on both sides. I do thing that the Anti-Zaush camp is much louder though.
There are some people being outright rude to anyone who says they're moving to Weasyl even if they don't mention the Zaush thing at all.
Convenient.
Also, if he really did those crimes, then why the Hell is he not in prison? Why did the person complain of his actions on Furaffinity?
Exactly.
It sounds like a load of bullshit.
*Sigh* This world saddens me sometimes.
I hope you do well, and hopefully everyone can straighten themselves out.
That's all.
"Furry Fandom: We Know Drama"
You're off to a great start.
the fuck is wrong with you? since when are pedophiles and dog fuckers on the same level as homosexuals?
She didn't go out on the street and yell out that he was a rapist.
Being a rapist is "no bueno".
Being gay is fine (religious/political views aside) - the issue in this case is the derogatory word.
I'm gay.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/4288891/ (Almost exactly a year ago in fact)
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/3988999/ (Even further back than that)
Saying "new staff are coming, things will improve!" doesn't work for multiple years in a row. Especially not when it's an annual event that FA will (not might, WILL) be down for days at a time without warning, and often times that site-wide failure will reveal multiple other hardware failures while resolving the first 'core' failure.
You've shown nothing but bad faith dealings at this point, any words the existing management says are unable to be trusted, that's the core issue. It doesn't matter what your intentions are or are not, but results over the span of years speak VERY loudly. And they speak of failure, time and time again, and an ivory-tower mentality that comes off as fairly close to Ulrich Drepper's time at the helm of the GLibC.
Stop trying to 'fix' the site, and admit you don't know how to run it, open things up for others to run it instead that folks trust if you want FA to survive. Otherwise I fear this is the beginning of a long, slow decline of FA akin to how the VCL has faded away.
So professional for a site owner to ignore the users that need help isn't it?
Anyway good luck on the improvements! The new lay-out from the last updates looked quite cool. :3
Also, I've seen begging for donations, and constant promises of improvements over my entire time using the site. I'm no longer a fully active member, but this is likely the 4th time I have seen a journal with a promise for "Things to get better soon". Sorry but you're not fooling anyone. Not to mention the squandering of the donation money.
The only positive thing I can remark on about FA, was the fact that I was able to network to many many great people. They have moved on for the same reasons above, and I followed them to those sites and services. It seems to be an ongoing trend that is accelerating. Anywho...
Thanks and good night everyone.
Okay dragoneer this is how I see it
You are the president and zaush is currently your vice president
You two are running for office but there's an allegation that your vice president has played a part in a sexual assault.
You have continued to cover this up and act like nothing is wrong and that you can have him as his vice president with no back lash because it isn't proven in court.
How many people are gonna vote for you over the other guy who doesn't have his head stuck up his ass?
Why won't people vote for you? Why are they throwing a fit and leaving over something that's not proven?
Because regardless it's a part of his personal history. No one wants an overlord who's probably gonna rape them. End of story.
This entire situation is absolutely ridiculous.
THERE IS REALLY NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT THE STAFF AS THAT IS UP TO THE STAFF.
SO HOW ABOUT, IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT YOU LEAVE AND IF YOU DON'T REALLY GIVE A RATS ASS AS YOU'RE PROBABLY NEVER GONNA MEET THE DUDE STAY.
YEAH THIS SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA.
THERE IS REALLY NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT THE STAFF AS THAT IS UP TO THE STAFF.
SO HOW ABOUT, IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT YOU LEAVE AND IF YOU DON'T REALLY GIVE A RATS ASS AS YOU'RE PROBABLY NEVER GONNA MEET THE DUDE STAY.
YEAH THIS SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoWEESRrNK8
I expect little to no change.
they seem to be doing fine
...so many awesome avatars on here lawl |D
This whole Zaush thing has gone way too far. Not only has his personal reputation been absolutely shattered because of an event that may or may not have happened (I haven't seen enough evidence on either side, I'm neutral here), and what's worse is that I have been seeing people actually post some pretty serious threats against him. I understand that some people might take offense at what he (possibly) did, but this amount of slander and shaming is never warranted.
On top of all of this, people have started pointing the blame to others who were completely unrelated to the incident.
"oh shiznit neer hired this RAPIST gotta go to weasyl fuck everyone on the FA team"
The fact that Dragoneer hired an individual with a potential criminal past should not invoke this much outcry. My old English teacher was a criminal out the ass in his teens/20's, and now he's a nationally recognized poet. (/lifestory) It's also pretty shameful to say things like "the entire FA team is full of criminals" (you know who you are).
"hes in a pozishun of POWER we're skrewed :((((((("
No, he isn't. He's on the team to help code and design the UI. Creating the site backend is entirely different from being a moderator.
"Horseshit and more horseshit. 'Neer the rape apologist and Zaush the rapist. Together forever, best of friends. Spirally downward in a whirlwind of shit. And they brought themselves to the edge, and jumped right the fuck in."
Redirecting blame when you don't get your way. There are only so many ways to sound like you still belong in grade school, this being one of them.
"Congratulations on your bold, spirited defense of the status quo against the twin scourges of decency and common sense. "
I get it, people are now the scum of the earth for being accused, or for being related in any way to said person. That doesn't sound like pure emotion talking at all.
Christ, people. Lay off Dragoneer, lay off Zaush. Imagine if you had to put up with this much bullshit every single day, all while trying to improve those peoples' experience on this site. I genuinely feel bad for those guys now.
So much so that it's a simple 'okie' comment that gets the most replies from this whole thread, and the on-going jokes that stem from it.
i'm confus
1. nice melodrama
2. literally nothing has happened to zaush and he hasn't shown any sign of remorse thats the point
3. holy fuck are you overdramatic
i know you apparently must like to see yourself as the big hero or some shit but get your head out of the clouds for fucks sake
It has never been melodramatic to use a metaphor in any written text unless explicitly designed to be so. This is not one of those cases.
"2. literally nothing has happened to zaush and he hasn't shown any sign of remorse thats the point"
Nothing, besides rape accusations, shattered reputation, legal threats, doxing, and death threats.
"3. holy fuck are you overdramatic"
As mentioned in your first statement, I am not being dramatic in any way, shape, or form.
For someone so accusatory for me supposedly using drama to make a point, you sure are dramatic.
"i know you apparently must like to see yourself as the big hero or some shit but get your head out of the clouds for fucks sake"
I don't see myself as a hero. I see myself as a debater defending a point. As such, I am willing to debate it with mature individuals, to which you have proven yourself to not be among, resorting to ad hominem in lieu of a true statement.
"on the ground bleeding and getting the shit kicked out of them" isn't a metaphor, its the exact dictionary definition of melodrama
1. rape accusations -- which you've brushed aside so we cant count that
2. shattered reputation -- ummm furaffinity drones are still defending him at all cost and he hasn't lost his position or anything so no
3. legal threats -- wait you mean the ones that never even went anywhere
4. doxing -- nothing has come as a result, and considering anyone can be doxxed relatively easy who gives a shit
5. death threats -- wow death threats on the internet what a surprise
you dont have a "debate" you pretentious shit
The comparison being to the poster above mine's statement that there was sympathy for a rapist to that of an otherwise defenseless individual getting attacked by a crowd overwhelming those defending him. My statement was the textbook definition of a metaphor.
"1. rape accusations -- which you've brushed aside so we cant count that"
That is incorrect, these accusations are the whole point of my debating. It would be impossible for me to deny the accusations while arguing that they were unjustified.
"2. shattered reputation -- ummm furaffinity drones are still defending him at all cost and he hasn't lost his position or anything so no"
Most of the users posting recently seem to be in favor of Zaush's dismissal from the Furaffinity team, as well as legal action against him.
"3. legal threats -- wait you mean the ones that never even went anywhere"
A threat does not explicitly imply that the action threatened will be carried out. Regardless, a threat is a form of personal attack.
"4. doxing -- nothing has come as a result, and considering anyone can be doxxed relatively easy who gives a shit"
Most people would object to having their full name, home address, email address, age, date of birth, phone number, cell number, and various other fragments of your personal information being put out across the internet? To do so is in many jurisdictions illegal, as that information alone can be used to financially destroy someone, and be used for identity theft.
"5. death threats -- wow death threats on the internet what a surprise"
You are suggesting that a death threat is not a serious thing. Regardless of location or means of delivery, the threat of taking someone's life is always serious. To put it in a context you might understand, just replace "death threats" in that statement with "rape".
As for the personal attacks, I feel as if your harsh statements against my character are unwarranted. I have done nothing deserving such a harsh response from you, leading me to believe that you are making these posts simply to illicit a reaction; as such, further posts from you will be ignored unless the ad hominem is dropped, and the issue itself can be discussed.
TL;DR
You're butthurt, I get it. If you want to discuss the actual issue at hand, I'd be happy to talk.
Cause of death: this fucking journal.
Man.... just spent far too long reading these comments.
And the only thing I remember is 'Okie'
+1!
Where?!
See how stupid it sounds on both sides?
Life: 0
Btw, I willingly drove to your house.
Umadbro?
<.<
Is it bad that in this entire journal, the biggest reaction I had was squeeing like a school girl at seeing the Sherman reference?
Go Hawks!
*coughs* Anyway!
That is kinda cool, thinking about about a Seahawks flag on the Space Needle.
And it was so awesome. I would have taken a picture, but I only saw it while on the bus, and one turn of the corner and it was too late >.<
Anyways, that is kinda how has it been in Charlotte, since $cam Newton came in, there are many more Panthers fan. That made me even less of one, though by all account I SHOULD be one, the stadium is like less than 2 hours away from me.
Honestly, I've been calling them ChickenHawks for the past few years. Got some beef from it since I live less than a half hour from Century Link XD Funny thing is, it started out as a tease, and ever since last season became an endearment. Kinda weird, really.
Ad Hominem. To use it is to drive home the nail that you don't have an actual argument.
I willing drove to your house.
2spooky4me
Willingly.
Thank you.
Too. Fuckin'. Much. Just... goddamn x.x
ya'll really do deserve this site
ollies and kickflips straight into space
Doesn't mean I'm never coming back here again, if only because there are a few people I watch here who aren't on other sites, but my activity will be next to nil.
They're leaving FA for another website
GO TO BED YOU PEOPLE, OKIE?
IT'S OVER 3000!!!!!!!
͚̪
͔̞͎͇̘̥͔́͝G̬̠O̲̰̱̬͚̜̩̘͓͘͟ ̘̳͞T̴̷̗̪̣͍͢ͅO̥̬͘͢͞ ̷̼̯̗̬̯͔̫͞ͅŞ̠͕̙̤L͏͏̪̟̯̞̱̻̣͇͇Ę͏̲̻̪̙̘̟̳̙ͅE̤̺̻͉͠ͅE̸̦͕͖̳͓͡Ḛ̙̙̩̳̱̼͡Ḙ̦̪͉͙̙͎̬͜E̷̙̺̥̮ͅͅP̷͔̩̱͚͉̙͠
-quotes elsa- let it gooo let it gooo. i just feel like everyone is getting really really crazy about it,we should just , sit down like the good boys,girls,trans and everything inbetween and wag our tails and be happy this lovely site is being updated for us~ cuz the admins are so genrous to give us a new site! goodness .3. people should be happy, get over the past is the past the future is tomorrow and today is a present :D
You know the skirting issues is dandy and all Fender but the damage is done and the 'explanation' came too little too late. Damage control was more damaging than controlling although it was an attempt at controlling the situation. This situation has managed to split the community once again, anger and disgust people to the point of leaving, and while showing just how decrepit and low this community can be.
I'm not sure what I'm more disgusted at; The fact someone with a track record of treating women badly, and accused more than once of forcing his way with women was made into a position of 'power' with the site; The fact that the person accusing him became the target of victim blaming by much of this community; The fact that many artists were outright attacked and scorned for their want to move to a different site because of this drama, or for their own reasons; or the fact that after all the outrage and hundreds of people leaving the site you still thought it was a good idea to keep Zaush/Adam Won on as staff regardless of his admin abilities or not.
Dragoneer has yet again proven him and his team are too incompetent to run this site, making promise after promise and never fulfilling, bringing on staff that shouldn't be staff and abuse their power, and again proving he cares nothing about his fanbase despite the outrage. Were this a real 'company' or 'business' this would be the PR nightmare of the decade, hiring on someone /accused/ of rape and ignoring the rage while trying to cover it up. Deleting things like crazy is not crowd control, it is not damage control, is is being controlling and an abuse of power. The situation should have been explained as soon as it started, instead a shitty attempt at damage control was attempted and only escalated the issue and made it worse. Also again were this a business, Zaush would have been fired for his jokes mocking the person accusing him of rape, his twitter comments were LESS than classy and shows just how mature this staff is.
Lastly before I pull out of this site entirely more from disgust over the incompetence of the staff than the drama as a whole, we're furries, we know drama, I'd like to stress something to both parties legally so excuse the use of caps.
IF ZAUSH IS INNOCENT HE NEEDS TO FILE A SLANDER, DEFAMATION OF CHARACTER, AND A CEASE & DESIST ORDER AT THIS COURT HOUSE.
IF THE VICTIM WAS RAPED SHE NEEDS TO FILE A SEXUAL ASSAULT AND VIOLENCE CASE AGAINST ZAUSH.
This should have been done from the start, both people live within driving distance and being accused of rape while apparently is a scoffing matter here is a very damaging thing in real life behind that glass screen in front of you. Legal matters should have been taken to stop this immediately, and should have been said legal matters were being taken. This would have stopped the drama entirely by saying legal steps were being taken against the party spreading the slander, lies and drama.
As a personal comment, KEEP YOUR FUCKING DICK IN YOUR PANTS IF THEY SAY NO. DAMN! How fucking hard is that to understand? You'd save yourself and us a major fucking headache by simply avoiding the problem rather than persisting until the person relented and gave in, which is EXACTLY WHY WE ARE HERE. /rage
Text is long
Bacon
I'm starting to think these posts are good for two things: Trolls and meet and greets XD
"OH GOD I can't find a sexy furry with big enough tits/cock/both!" *tries punching cock to get an erection.....still limp..."FUCK!" .....Oh I got it screaming and yelling about somebody I don't know will do the trick....*presses caps lock key *type type type type* "Oh fuck yeah getting hard now. All the LULZ...mmhhhmmm yeah.... *fap fap fap "Oh god yes...YES....DRAMA IS SUCH A TURN ON!!!! ...YES...YES!!!!"
As for those threatening to leave the site in boycott of this situation, I must remind you that only in doing the action are you going to be believed. I for one must acknowledge the fact that I am thinking of leaving this site. Which is sad, because honestly I have many friends who won't use SoFurry or Weasyl. As well as SoFurry and FurAffinity are the only sites upon which my work is posted. I took the time to deal with this bullshit because it is obvious some of us lack the maturity to realize that while we can give advice, blame and insults to the staff, the real way that we can show our lack of support for the current staff is to leave the site, delete our accounts, and tell our friends to do the same.
Love FA, love the place where I can find artists to commission easily, love a good cup of coffee.
1. I believe Nanuk and Dragoneer are a pair of liars, and I generally assume anything they say is false.
2. The risk/reward calculation does not work out in the Administration's favor, here. If users behave as though they're telling the truth, the risk is that staff members will exploit their IPs, session logs, e-mail addresses, passwords, and notes to gain information and power over users, particularly female users that they'd like to force into unwanted sexual exhibition or acts. The reward is minor convenience. If users behave as though the they're lying and their personal information is in danger, the reward is that the amount of leverage that can be gained against them by staff is reduced or eliminated, and they may avoid being forced into sex acts they don't want. The risk is that they may be inconvenienced.
I encourage every female user to police their passwords (bearing in mind that attempts may be made to use your FA password to access your e-mail, twitter, Paypal, other art sites, etc.), clear their notes, and consider skipping town to another community that considers their safety (and perception of safety) worth a damn.
Also, you seem to just be spewing out the same garbage that the rest of this lynch mob is. Tell me, where were you when this originally started? Why has it only really gotten to you now?
And also, the killer question:
If you think that you are at risk, why don't you just leave? Why do feel the need to stay behind so you can further ridicule and harass a man who's reputation has been all but shattered already?
>"but this rapist did a horrible thing"
Rape is an absolutely heinous crime, and only true scum would ever sink so low as to commit it. Zaush even said so himself.
>"of course he would say that to defend himself"
More probably because it's true. And of course he's gonna defend himself, or at least try to, because people will always spin his words to try and prove that he's a bad guy. It's literally like the Salem Witch Trials on FA.
No, I don't think I need to proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's a threat -- I am playing the percentages based on the testimony of people who have described him as abusive, manipulative, and sexually predatory. People like former FA staff that I've known and trusted for years.
As for the former FA staff, what kind of positions did they hold, and is there any way that I can indeed confirm the fart that they were staff at one point or another? I'm just a tad skeptical, because you're about the 15th person I've debated with who has claimed they have known the victim, or claimed to have been in contact with Zaush being and up and out sexual predator.
Not outright dismissing you, just looking for proof.
Ha. You are as transparent as a concentre block. But do not worry. We have X-ray hacks for that! :D
-Keep Project Phoenix and all who are in charge of it, and bring the long awaited/needed redesign of the site, but ensure that those who hold an extremely negative opinion of the project will not return to FA; or...
-Remove the user in charge of the project to appease those with negative opinions, but potentially lose all progress in the site redesign and have the same situation that occurred a few years back with the previous attempts to redesign the site.
The ironic part about the second option is that many of those that would be appeased by it, would be turned off by the fact that yet another redesign project will be scrapped, much like the previous attempts that many people cite when criticizing the administration.
Now, of course, there are other options to choose from, but these are the two most obvious ones that I, and a few others have seen; and in no way am I demanding that the administration choose one of these options, I'm just voicing my opinion on the matter, and my opinion lies with the first option; bring progress to the site as a whole, and let those that no longer wish to be part of the site move to other sites. There's no sense in trying to appease people in hopes that they will return because as I said, what's happened has happened, the damage has been done.
I've been on this site for nearly 8 years and I've just let this kinda stuff sail by me because, quite frankly, it doesn't bother me because I'm not a part of the equation in the slightest.
If the site improves and the drama ceases (to a degree), so be it.
If it goes down like the Hindenburg, so be it, I can find other places to post my art.
Forgive me if I don't see the bigger picture here, but I wanna put my 2 cents in.
I use this site as a user of a service, and so long as that service continues decently enough (with or without upgrades or changes) then I'll continue using it to share my entertainment
frankly I don't care if the entire staff were rapists; it's honestly not my problem and it's not impacting my need for a gallery, it's all just my apathy, someone else can deal with it, and if it crashes then I can find another
now in before 'if you're not part of the solution, you're just part of the problem'
Others might need to as well, considering all the butthurt on display by all these folks...
Still leaves me with one thing to ask:
The guy in question has been on the site for quite a while and there's never been any drama about that. Then it's made public he's going to work on coding (he's not going to be an admin), and suddenly people feel uncomfortable and leave. Why didn't you leave -before- if he makes you feel so uncomfortable? As far as I gathered these rumors going around aren't exactly new, so why exactly is "acceptable" if it's just one of the users, but so much a drama if the dude's announced as coder for the site?
With that said, I really have side to stand on here. As mentioned, I get where both sides are coming from and that there's need to find some kind of solution. Overall, I am just sad to see this happening because it causes this rift in the community and so much damage to the site.
Basically this whole fiasco started because a lot people just don't feel comfortable with him, which is understandable. But more complaints have been brought up as time went on. The cronyism, inactive admins, months of unresolved trouble tickets, the incredibly high turnover rate of staff, and the empty promises. When it was announced on the forums that he would be heading this attempt, you could could just see this whole thing coming from miles away. Honestly, this whole Project Phoenix thing is shaping out to be a repeat of 2011. The setup is just to perfect.
It's easy to say "just leave", but what you have to keep in mind is that artists don't want to abandon all their viewers and the viewers won't leave because all their artists are here. It's a catch twenty-two which, in my personal opinion, is why FA still remains relevant. Other sites have popped that pretty much carter to everything everyone has asked for, as if they had decided to actually implement the things FA said they would. We're just holding each other back.
I don't think I answered a couple of your questions well so;
"Why was he fine then but bad now?": The drama had just died down but then he was cast back into the spotlight.
"If he's not an admin, why is it a big deal?": Well a lot of people are pissed about that team that was already working on it but was swept under the rug, as well as the fact that FA doesn't have the best track record when it comes to honesty so him not being an admin right now might be a different story in a month when they think no one is looking.
very comments
wow
so whines
such leave
very fight
such drama
pls help
much feels
get wrektd
wow
I don't know the history of everything I buy, or all the stores I go to. For all I know, everyone's been in jail. It doesn't change a dang thing.
To me, it's none of my business what has/hasn't happen. That's for people in real life, not the internet, to decide. Furthermore, none of us were THERE, so, arguing isn't going to change anything.
I could care less if he codes or doesn't. It's an art site. For all you know, every site you visit is filled with awful people with horrid backgrounds.
I'm just going to eat my cereal.
Screw cereal, i'm getting Taco Bell. =P
While taco bell hasn't done that to me, Sour Skittles does cut up my tongue D=.
For all they know, the site owners or admins there could be murderers, but just because they don't say anything that could compromise them doesn't make them automatically good people who care about the welfare of others.
She could be lying. He could be lying. If the truth is impossible to find out, why should we take it upon ourselves to judge and potentially make the wrong call? For me, I would rather let the appropriate authorities handle the situation between the accuser and the accused. This situation happened three years ago and I'm willing to bet bother parties just wanted to move on and forget everything that happened. Bringing it back up and creating is certainly not doing any favors to either of them.
The bottom line is, we shouldn't be judging and 'witch hunting' something that has been accused of doing something by only a few people. Nearly two years ago my ex claimed that I cheated on him after I broke up with him. All that was ever presented was his word. Some people decided to take up his cause and spread those rumors. Should my potential employment or social opportunities be hampered and denied just because he claimed I did him wrong? That's not morally right, in my opinion.
The Redesign
I seriously hope that this project goes through. FurAffinity needs to be re-built if it is going to stay relevant in future years. Web Technology changes quickly and sites need to stay caught up or be left in the dust by their competition. There needs to vast improvements and us, as a community, dredging up situations in the past is only hampering those improvements. My major concern is about the redesign is wether or not it will be design for mobile first? What's the point of revamping the website if there is no support for mobile phones and tablets? Weasyl is stiff competition due to it being a simple pleasure browsing that site on a mobile device.
Adminship
I do agree that things have been handled poorly in the past. Hell, even recent situations have been handled that way. But at the end of the day we are all human. I used to run a local furry group. I made -very poor- decisions then; decisions that I have now made amends for. It's possible to make a change and start handling situations differently with more logic. I do feel that, at the very least, there is a sincere desire to make that change at this one moment in time. Whether that will stay or change in the future is unknowable. Honestly, I feel like they should be given that chance. One last chance to prove everyone here that things can change. If they fail, maybe Dragoneer should sell the site? Get a new site owner, new adminship, new everything. That, of course, should come if they fail at doing what they set out to do this year. To change.
There are two calls that can be made here, and only one of them makes any sense at all.
First call: Keep Zaush on the team
RISKS: Regardless of guilt or innocence, this results in abysmal PR, fear and anxiety among users who find the evidence against him credible, and unprecedented loss of major players and their watchers.
If Zaush has mysteriously been the victim of a vast, high-tech, and professional conspiracy to fabricate evidence and generate phony testimony about both his background and his demeanor, then the risk is that a particular...entity with relatively common skills will need to be replaced, and his fans will grumble for perhaps a few weeks before settling down.
If Zaush is the scumbag indicated by the reams of evidence and personal experience, then Dragoneer will have hired a coder who is extremely abrasive and unable to work with others, and apparently inexperienced with the type of work he will need to do. He will also have empowered a sexually manipulative and predatory entity to handle the very architecture of the site. Entertaining the notion that maybe Dragoneer hasn't already given him Admin rights and lied about it, he may still be able to sneak in a backdoor that provides him access to female users' IPs, session logs, e-mail addresses, passwords, and notes. These can be used to harass, bully, and intimidate them into doing things they don't want to do for fear of being banned, stalked, or having private material exposed. They may even be used to facilitate physical attacks on users who are physically nearby. (Note to Dragoneer: This is actually a bad thing.) If this occurs, it creates a very unpleasant legal and moral situation for FA, to say the least.
REWARDS: Dragoneer gets to keep a personal friend in charge of the site redesign.
Second call: Drop Zaush from the team and find somebody else (hopefully without antagonizing his supporters.)
RISKS: It is theoretically possible that a good and innocent man will not be granted an unpaid coding position at a furry art website. His fans will be upset by the news until reminded that this means he will have more time to draw dog penises.
REWARDS: A large portion of Zaush's critics will be satisfied, another large portion will have their fears assuaged, and it is possible that the hemorrhage of talent will be stanched. Without Zaush, it is possible to hire a more experienced coder who can manage of team of people who can say more than "yes, sir," and "don't hit me, sir." The credibility of the staff will tick up for the first time this decade, and FA will be much more thoroughly protected from the legal and moral consequences of possibly facilitating criminal acts against users. There will be fewer insults/day, and eventually things will die down until the next fiasco.
Which call would you make? Which call do you already know Dragoneer will make because of FRIENDSHIP MAGIC?
The only damage to the PR are people going on in flame wars about this. This information will *never* be proven, so to constantly battle over it is complete stupidity. Don't people have better things to do rather than repeating information that has been regurgitated down a line of people? Go outside! It might be cold, but you definitely need the fresh air. Stop making this into some sort of evil vs good conflict. It's not.
Anyhow, I believe that the competition is good for everyone.
If I'm hearing this right, then I am happy to hear someone say this. Not even being sarcastic or anything.
Predominantly, software and website design are highly consumer centric.
FA update has been overwhelmingly awaited by users. The problem is that FA just doesn't carefully choose the suitable representative in term of subjective (Personal background) and objective (career background) preference. Everyone knows that FA is the biggest Furry galleries and forums on the Internet right now, but acting and responding with oligopoly will only exploit web users/consumers.
I just hope this could be a very good lesson for FA.
Can you explain what you mean about this to me?
I don't dig in too deep into the drama and I don't what to start another one.
Oligopoly is when only a few of people is in charge of the majority of any market / industry. Oligopoly tends to act regardless of the market because it controls the biggest market share. Thinking with oligopoly can lead to myopia, the short-sightedness of identifying user needs.
FA is still not oligopolistic because there are still substantial competitors. However, the expectation of the biggest Furry community is extremely high. Recruiting people with doubtful concerns and zero experience are bad enough, what about the immature action that deleted and banned anyone who commented ? I would say that there are plenty of amazing web designers on the Internet. I will not choose anyone who will disrupt the image, even though it is just conspiracy theories because browsing on the Internet is intangible, facts and rumours have small blurred line.
You're posting to the choir already, those who initially had problems with FA stating with this whole project phoenix thing have already left or created Weasyl accounts and vowed to post less to FA. Given the past issues and reactions to those issues there's not enough trust between FA and most people (especially those who did not agree with recent events) to have a change of heart and return.
I admire the attempt at creating an acknowledgement post, but really you're fuelin' the troll train now. =|
lol yeah right.
Personal Bias > Userbase
Might as well just rename to rape-affinity. Or whateveratthetime-affinity
"Then why are they STILL here bitching and whining."
"Bitching and whining" Yes, doing business here and not liking it is being an asshole now. It's because its the #1 source of revenue for furry porn on the face of the internet. It is practically unparalleled in popularity, because users like you won't leave, and are encouraging mediocrity on the staff's part.
Prove to me you have a real argument and are not being inflammatory simply for attention.
So you refuse to provide counter arguments because I will dispute them. Good job swaying me to your side!!!
Thanks for the personal insults by the way!
Welcome to my block list, and proving my original point of you being a troll.
Feel free to respond to your own comments, because I am willing to bet they are going to be more of the same.
Never go Full-Fonzie. B^)
Gotta love the one track minds here.
Stay classy
"It's rather painfully obvious the community at large is uncomfortable with Zaush having any part in this or future FA projects. Regardless of reasoning, rationale, arguments or logic, this decision is not something your user base is generally comfortable with as a majority it seems. My suggestion would be to acquiesce and remove this person from any roles involving this website. There is no shame in doing what is right by attempting to resolve the problems and concerns that have come to play. Netflix made some poor choices when they announced the split to Qwikster and they got slammed for it by the community and media. Their CEO acquiesced due to community concerns and they get credit for trying to do the right thing for their user base & customers. I suggest you take that into consideration. There is no shame in making a mistake and then going back to rectify it. This is a service opportunity. Drama is inevitable but now is a poor time to stand your ground and continue on a destructive PR path. For the sake of the community and your user base, think rationally and make a simple yet effective decision that will ultimately put this to bed."
Have a nice day!
https://twitter.com/FurAffinityPR/s.....55736315305984
Fail troll is fail.
Alas, good luck to you on your random commenting endeavors.
I was on a lot yesterday because I work from home. Today I have been rather busy and didn't get on till late night.
Well, FA requires things with the f-bomb to be marked adult, so they're just following the rules. Perhaps you'd prefer the way Weasyl has a rating for sexual adult work in and of itself?
FA is a website. There is no reason to make such a big fuzz about this.
...Business continues below.
Delete the journal. For the love of ice cream!
50 No's and one Yes still means yes.
Thats the point, champ
They're basically me with those posts but on the other side of the debate.
Like:
Wolfy-Nail drawing rape porn means he's probably an ACTUAL rapist: http://furryscumbags.tumblr.com/pos.....e-wolfy-nail-i
SakuraFox fursuiting in a kimono is racist: http://furryscumbags.tumblr.com/pos.....-sugar-worn-by
If you still enjoy Lapfox Trax's music, you're apparently a rape-supporter: http://furryscumbags.tumblr.com/pos.....-a-person-isnt
(About that last one, I guess I support domestic abuse because I like F. Scott Fitzgerald's work. Oh, and you like that song Imagine? That John Lennon song about peace and harmony? Well, it was produced by Phil Spector, so if you like that song, that clearly means you support murdering women by FurryScumbags logic.)
Can we just go back to those days instead of all this drama bullshit?
Any ETA for a fix on reply-heavy comment threads? :c
FA decides to update? "OMG, I'M MOVING TO WEASYL!"
I'm honestly curious how you plan to layout the site, so far all i've seen was a shot of the notes and im more concerned with how the gallery and front page would work seeing as this is still an art site and all. also wondering if we would be able to now respond to shouts on our page since i've seen a lot of back and forth shout conversations in my time here, although I assume that im just going to have to wait for more information since you probably want to keep everyone blind for now. :)
And thank you for not yielding to trial by mob.
The thing that people don't seem to get is that the true strength of FA is your ability to keep going in spite of the drama that gets heaped on you. Good coding and site design is nice and all, but many other sites which are better than FA in a technical sense have come and gone. Any site which is at all successful will have a bunch of bastards trying to tear it down, and they usually succeed. FA has been very successful and so has a whole army trying to tear it down.
And after all of their efforts for all of these years...
You're still flying.
Is everyone here five years old? Holy crap.
I'm not leaving the website. The drama I am reading, is far too ridiculous I feel sick about it. e.e
Why can't people just say "Okay thank you" and move on? No, they have to argue. Like they really benefit from doing so.
Wishing you all well and this gets sorted out soon.
I have written ANOTHER journal, one that's a lot calmer this time, that outlines one or two of the things I already said, plus quite a few of what is said here, but a bit more direct, to the point, and detailed. As I say in this journal, I know this is already (slowly) calming down, but having said as much as I have already, I feel I might as well go all the way and put this to bed, as far as I am concerned if nothing else. I could say more, but I think it would make more sense if you just had a look at my journal on this. I already posted the link in this comment once but here it is again: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5448204/
Don't worry, I promise it has no swear words this time! You will probably even wonder, "Is this REALLY the same person who wrote this?"
Dragoneer would. Dragoneer don't give a fuck. If I didn't know that it was Dragoneer typing that sentence, then I'd say "you know this more than anyone". When he consults the staff on an issue, consider it a blessing. Because when HE makes decisions, that's just how it fucking is, no discussing or debating it.
What I see is a bunch of people going emotional over obscure letters. It's funny how when someone shouts out the word 'rapist' or 'pedo' etc.. there is instantly a huge bandwagon of accusers without a single objective to support their claim. A total snowball effect where nobody knows nothing but responds anyway.
All it takes to ruin someones career/life is creating a massive emotional response out of a single lie.
Not saying it definitely is a lie, rather just to stay neutral until there is more to have your opinions based on than some freakin' letters.
Regardless of the environment, decisions are based on community. If someone was fucking dogs in a state where legal and people in a city found out, they'd shun and blacklist him from businesses, which is by the way completely legal(the blacklisting). That's exactly what's happening here.
In the real world, when our lives and bodies (and our friends' lives and bodies) are on the line, we play with probabilities, not proof; I won't worry about proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that danger exists. I'm going to worry about what I and many others feel is the very, very great probability that Zaush is a dangerous person and that we need to spread the word for people to protect themselves against him.
Also, while it may feel like a personal witch hunt against Zaush (and it's true, I and many others do personally despise him), the real subject here is not the person, but the position. We are convinced that he must not be permitted to hold an office of privilege and authority on this site, and we are going to do everything we can to get him removed, or to protect his potential victims. On that note:
I encourage all users to clear personal information from their stored notes, and to ensure that their FA password is not used for other accounts, such as e-mail, Facebook, Twitter, PayPal, forums, banking, or school/work.
Or, if you're Neer, you hire them on the spot.
In this day and age, simply having this kind of controversy can prevent you from getting hired to many places. You may never have been convicted of anything but simply being dismissed as being a possible risk to the company. Here we have the exact opposite going on
Letters or not, Dragoneer was involved in this to some degree, it's not what he did or didn't do, it's the fact that he has a previous association with Zaush, and hiring him on to do the job looks awfully suspect, if anything there is a conflict of interest here.
So all we can do these days is hire controversial people with not so rosy reputations that cause an uproar with many of it's users? Uhm, okay.
^ this gif would've been so much funnier if Zaush's fursona was a sloth. :D
http://imgur.com/606Rd2d
Admins, if you laugh, you're not allowed to ban me.
FA is keeping an admin
The site might get an upgrade
and last but never the least in the fandom... DRAMA
yep that was all that happened here... summed up in 3 short lines just for that one guy that scrolls to the bottom first. you are welcome guy
okie
Have i contributed to the drama now?
It's astonishing that people are defending this decision.
The admins started out wanting to keep this hush hush and settle the nerves of all the furs that were gettin riled up. But little did them know that once posted across the news banner BAM!! shit hits the site-wide public fan and everyone gets involved.. Either leading to a bunch of drama furs bitching about someone, furs leaving the site cause they no longer like the way it's run, or Zaush gettin a ton of hits on his watch list cause people either condone his type of behavior or want to watch him to see if he slips up... WAY TO GO FA!!! You really screwed your future up :3
its not right to keep someone in the ranks who is guilty of the same thing that those
banned users all have in common: Having a bad reputation.
i don't have any other issues, And personally i'm GLAD there are so many people
defending people being falsely accused of Rape, because i was Also falsely accused.
maybe you guys are more rational, than the people who cry and wail.
Maybe its that you don't believe bs you read on the internet with out ever actually
meeting the person. (or it could just be convenience )
i feel like all the people spreading bullshit about me should LEAVE FA already or they
are hypocrits... Guess what... they haven't... so they're ok with presuming i'm the rapist
but meanwhile ignore the presumed rapist overlord...
oh the irrational fear~! the overwhelming paranoia~!
Me and Zausch are in the same boat, hell he should +watch my FA page to show solidarity =p
this fandom is all kinds of fucked....
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU~
Well, a really tiny egg, at least. Perhaps a quail egg would be small enough to cook on a iPhone 5s?
Joking aside, there are clearly others who are far more informed and invested in this issue than I am, but while I'm glad to see furs trying to uphold the honour of the community, no amount of text is going to alter the general opinions on this specific scandal, nor the public's view of us in general. The fandom is already counter-culture in nature, and will forever be labeled as such. We are all sex-crazed freaks as long as we adopt the "Furry" label, regardless if it's true or not for the individual in question. Things have always been that way, and always will be. Whether or not the allegations are true, Zaush will be labeled the same way. You and I will be labeled the same way. Where's massive discussion getting us?
I participate in the fandom for the sake of removing myself from the drama of everyday life. I call myself a furry since it is convenient, but different people's motives for being the fandom are so diverse that I believe it's misguided to attempt to define the overarching values of the community. We're trying to label sex offenders, who are seen as shameful in public eye, yet some furs express fantasies that are far more twisted. Why are we so paranoid about upholding societal values in a counter-culture fandom? Where do we draw the line, and why are we so concerned? We'll never have a definitive answer since people's value systems are inherently different, and people's sensitivities to these real life events differ as well.
This!!
Boomer
its been 2 weeks
let it drop already. They arnt going to change anything
gawd
And yet, you insisted she not contact the police.
Haha, wow.
But you're literally doing exactly this, by denying that something bad has happened that needs to be dealt with, it is YOU staying in your fantasy world. You can't just say 'oh, bad things happen', well, you can- but I'm 100 percent sure it's because you're one of those 'it doesn't affect me so I don't care'
Well, a lot of people do care. A lot of people are stepping out of the grey mass of acceptance right now to try and do something. Accept it.
"FA is at least trying to do stuff rather than complain about it."
What, like sweep it under the rug and pretend like nothing happened? Typical FA way of dealing with things, by the old 'fuck you, our rules'.
FA is doing nothing about this.
FA will not even update it's look, it's the same old shit.
Go back to your furry porn, etc.
desu
-"While I don't know what really happened, I feel that Zaush is a fucking rapist piece of shit and should be kicked off the team and fuck everyone trying to defend him."
or
-"While I don't know what really happened, I feel that the accuser is a lying cunt bitch who is crying false rape to ruin an innocent person's life and fuck everyone who stands up for this whore."
This is why I love the furry community as a whole. While both sides admit they don't know what happened, that doesn't stop them from taking such strong stances on either side of the issue.
I like that, despite furries disagreements or w/e, we still refer to each other by our respective fictitious species like its a real thing. Almost all parody art so far depicts Dragooner and Zaush as their Fursona. That is something truly exclusive to the furry fandom, and really helps to keep the magic IMO.
The only great thing to dig out of this shithole of a situation.
All I would know that in a matter of months everything will blow over.
I'm just saying that IF he's innocent, I hope that everyone realizes their prejudice remarks and learn from their own action.
FOR EVERYONE WHO'S BEEN TROLLING ME - I'LL SAY THIS IN SIMPLE WORDS THAT YOU CAN UNDERSTAND
I did NOT just call Zaush innocent... I did NOT just call Zaush guilty... I'm not calling him any prejudice words/names.
Use your tablets, computers, Androids and iPhones, do your own google search... Type in "define prejudice" and see.
So. Many. HOLES!
IF THE NEW ADMIN IS INDEED, READING THESE COMMENTS
I hope the majority of FA is wrong and all this drama is just a bunch of horse sh!t that will eventually go away (soon, I hope). I hope that if indeed, someone proves that the new admin is innocent, I hope that he can find it in his heart to forgive everyone who's been prejudice with their comments, and that they can learn to NOT do this to anyone else. It makes me sad that furries, as quick as we are to help each other out in just about any situation, are just as quick to stone a man to death without hard evidence/truth.
THIS IS FUN! LET'S DO MORE OF THIS! YOUR TURN YOUR TURN
its so much nicer than the fighting on the last journal
okie?
okie.
I understand when business stuff is managed by a few experts, but you have you prime matter here, the users, just eating what you're serving and if they don't like it they just have to much it harder and think it tastes good.
Hmm... yummy metaphor.
I wish a survey had been made for project Phoenix so people using the site had a voice to it. I also think you have been watching over the users to see what they want or not, but I still think you're missing a lot of opinions if you do only that and no formal surveys were done.
Revamping a site this big can be a hellish nightmare but if you're diving into it, better do it so it won't need a mayor re-revamp until 2025.
I can't write what i want with the exact meaning i want to give to each word because derp derp how to engrish plox but i CAN say something.
If you're going through the site's renewal, please add a "search by word" box?
And surveys!... [c](looks like)[/c] I [c](fucking love)[/c] like surveys! Make them and ask people what they want :D
I don't think i missed them, but if that's the case, ignore my comment and plz link?
Surveys are good, but can often get you mixed results. Especially when you're working on redoing something from the ground up. What we will be doing is consistently updating the community through these posts and keeping tabs on responses, and showing off mockups and design prototypes as we move forward, eventually showing off more finalized versions of what it'll look like. We may also do some user testing, but that would come later on.
Every time I hear someone cry about it, it's always a different story with different details. I can't help but feel suspicious of all this. I'm not gonna go off of what I've been hearing. Why? Because I don't know the parties involved. For all I know, either the guy's ex is a lying bitch who is just trying to stir up shit, or the guy could very well be a rapist.
And you know what? Even if the guy is a rapist, he's just doing web design. It's not like FA is sending him to rape everybody. The guy could be a serial killer for all I care, if he can do good web design let him do his work. Besides, we already live in a world run by liars, cheaters and murderers who already have control over our governments and economies and livelihoods and have already bent us over...and people are making a big deal over a website?
Speaking as a member of a religion that has been the victim of many lies thrown at it, I'm well aware of the dangers of misinformation. I'm more worried about fear-mongering bigots who are actively trying to push LAWS that would make life for people like me a LIVING HELL all because of disgustingly inaccurate third-party accounts. When you have to deal with shit like that, a guy doing web design, whether he's a rapist or not, is just plain trivial in comparison.
"The problem is that nobody in the Administration is a trustworthy source for any of these claims. They have routinely lied, censored, played favorites, concealed wrongdoing, ignored serious problems, and generally destroyed any shred of credibility they had, and the possibility of ever regaining it again during their lifetimes. They are frauds, plain and simple, and it is laughable to assume that Zaush will not or does not have access to personal information like IPs, session logs, e-mail addresses, passwords, and notes just because a liar assured us he doesn't. He is a personal friend of Sean's, which means that he will be given whatever privileges and powers he asks for, regardless of whether he's competent to exercise them, and the staff will be instructed to lie to us about it."
Why does it matter if he has access to those things?
"Most people on FA didn't feel that there was a significant risk before of having their notes read, so they used it to share their full names and phone numbers with friends, arrange for events at their homes or school addresses, or otherwise transmit personal information. Some have used them to share deeply personal information with trusted friends, not imagining that anybody would have the motivation to spy on little ol' them. IPs can be used for rough geographic location, and in some cases to determine a user's specific workplace or school. Session logs can provide clues to a user's home/work/sleep schedule. E-mail addresses and passwords are very sensitive, because a LOT of people make the mistake of sharing passwords across sites. An unscrupulous staff member with access to a person's e-mail address and a password may potentially have access to accounts on Facebook, PayPal, Twitter, forums, other art sites, or maybe even their personal e-mail account, which could potentially increase the list of vulnerabilities to include things like bank accounts. You may be thinking, "well, that's their fault for using the same password," right? If so, tuck that away in the back of your head for a moment and we'll continue. With access to information like this, it is entirely plausible that an unscrupulous staff member could place a vulnerable user in a bad position. For instance, by threatening (via a false identity, most likely) to reveal embarrassing kinks to an employer if the user doesn't send them naked pictures. Or, for another example, to change a person's Facebook password and threaten to post humiliating content unless they agree to perform sexual favors in their dorm room."
"BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH"
TL;DR, I honestly don't give a shit. Why? It's one fuckin' website. The overall point of my message is that if anyone is THIS concerned over a website designer of some furry website, you need to take a closer look at the world you live in. There are corrupt people all over the globe who are already screwing us over over more important aspects of our lives without us even knowing about it.
Besides, do you even know this Zaush guy personally? As well as Dragoneer or anyone who personally knows him? If not, your opinion means as much to me as Fox News and MSNBC, in other words, jack shit.
You wanna be a hero? Donate to the needy, pay your taxes, buy American products, help old ladies across the street, organize protests against corrupt politicians, and other contributions that would make this world a better place.
That still makes you biased unless you yourself know the people directly. These people you refer to may very well be your friends whom you have a lot of trust in, but that doesn't change the fact that they still have their own perceptions of the world around them. I dunno about you, but I prefer to get my info straight from the source. Anything other than that is still hearsay as far as I'm concerned.
Lemme put it this way: I happen to be a follower of a religion that has been the subject of mass paranoia. It's to the point where I no longer feel safe to identify myself as such. I know what my religion is and isn't about and I can honestly tell you a lot of what right-wing media sites say about our book are just plain lies yet there are so many people who feel convinced that it promotes violence. Many of them think they know everything about it, but I know they're getting their information from biased sources. Sources that have twisted the facts. Sources that have manipulated the meanings of our book by taking the worst possible translations they could find, even finding them from outdated translations from decades past from the most violently biased translators.
I'm well aware of the dangers of misinformation. It almost cost me my relationship with my mate because her parents kept thinking I was some bomb-crazy terrorist or something. Because of hearsay from all these propaganda websites, it was a long, hard struggle for me to convince them I'm just a normal guy who's as American as they are.
In the end, I can only trust the info I gather myself. It's why I always give people the benefit of the doubt until I know with my own senses what's really going on.
if you don't think that's fair of me to say 100% of the time about you, then i don't think its fair of you to say that 100% of the time for multiple people whose stories are consistent about the same person. Especially if he fits the bill of being a confirmed douche bag and manipulator. wouldn't you be biased against someone whos harassed your friends and aided bad people? having bias doesn't mean you should be automatically dismissed.
for example, if your mom called you in tears claiming that a police officer sexually harassed her after pulling her over, wouldn't you have some bias toward him? yeah you would, but i wouldn't say you should be dismissed for that. what if you went to the station and reported it, and met with people making the same claim? that means he has a history of doing that, and the station would have a case. it could be doubly worse to prove if he did off off camera, but they would still pay attention depending if they're true to law.
FA is that station right now, and they are doing nothing of the sort. just telling people to "Fuck off." no ones here to prove him guilty, just telling him he probably shouldn't have any power. we are entitled to giving that feedback.
>Replies like a jackass.
>Claims to not care.
>Makes own tl;dr post about not caring and being a brick wall in general.
And this here is a good chunk of what is left on FA. And the 'dramatic' side of FA is supposedly leaving? HAH!
You guys will get tired of the taste of ass in your mouth eventually. Sooner or later the staff will do something to piss you off. And then we'll see how you feel about this website. c:
By the way, good job on the 'there is corruption everywhere' stick man argument. I suppose everyone should just shut up about that too because that's not going to change either, huh? You're brilliant.
this kinda drama is not what i expected signing up here
idk but this isn't gonna make me leave the site... it's not like da where there are admins that blatantly say tracing/art theft is a-okay.
at least as far as i know~
so ugh
just gonna stay outta the drama then x.x
and maybe chill ont eh site til this stuff dies down
//goes to bed now
Where is drama llama anyhow? He needs to compete with me in this drama olympics and win a metal. *collapses*
and what is planned to do about it?
OH and before everyone else begins to reply about it
DON'T START AN ARGUMENT
DON'T BRING UP DRAMA
DON'T DRAG ME IN THIS SHITSTORM
don't even try to reply with a clever retort or social justice opinion, just keep it to yourself
you know, people like slainmonkey and a few others who just appear on every reply and comment just to put their flame war 2 cents
now then, what do you think about net neutrality? how do you think it will effect artists, and especially furries who commission for money
take a step back and think about now a bunch of old farts in suits and CEOs will take to 3rd party or non company art sites or even furry fandom, ontop of which if it goes bad how will it effect those who
rely on these sites or others and their pre established watcher base for commissions just to pay the bills and put food on the table?
I don't care about it, I was just pointing out your hypocrisy. "Shut the hell up" is not a reasonable response. The only real motive (or in other words, you "truth") I can see behind behind comments like your is "Because I said so" So, my response is, "No." Please understand why, without making ill informed assumptions.
now people are gonna randomly socially attack your moral credibility because you don't care about that issue
Personally, I don't know too much about net neutrality control thing other then that it is bad. Really, really bad. I mean, its not that I don't care, I just wouldn't talk too much about something I don't know specifics about. Doesn't mean I can't be against it for knowing the basics, because this shit can effect my day to day life.
however recently the court decision dealing with Version doing just that, breaking the law of this act by pulling half the speed from youtube on their end to put into something else,
with the help of lobbyists and money, they will not be punished, instead, the act that acts as a safety net, will be taken down
how this effects ISP, they can now block or allow as well as control the speed of domains or websites as they please as well as charge whatever the fluff they want, even exploit or extort by slowing down a site until they pay up more, some of these ISPs view big domains or thing we use as threat or hindrances to their competitive oligopoly, just as netflix and other sites, even turner said "free porn is bad for business"
this means indie sights, not already big sites, and well anything else small internet businesses may not have a chance due to slow speed or lower amount of advertisement or even blocked,
these are sites we use every day, and we pay good money to use them, and alot may be super slowed down or blocked from our use, just because a CEO doesn't like it personally or wants to exploit it,
especially sites like fur-affinity, deviant and other art sites might end up obliterated by this and everyone who relies on these places for commissions or goods sales may not have a standing chance
and I will not verbally attack you based on your opinion on this matter
but even so the small comforts or little bit of entertainment i get from the creative and skillful people here helps keep the world just a little less grey, besides I pay good money to have internet, not to have the sites I use unavailable to me just because a company doesn't like them or wants to charge more for faster speed. I dunno I also feel like the internet as stupid as alot of it can get is one of our last standpoints of equal freedom of use here.
big time companies have power, money, politicians, and lobbyists, :I I could even give a 5 hour rant about monsanto alone
its not deleted its not even saying its BEEN deleted
*ponders how it went missing*
that "geese this is still relevant news?"
nothing really more or less of an extreme like everyone else has im sure posted. so... im not sure why it dissapearred
and im not the only one. Ive been watching it sense i noticed it. And a few that posted after me got deleted at well
more so "removed magically" to say in a silly manner
If this is the work of the FA mods and i find out. Fuk rape and victims! (no pun intended) I want no part of this crafty system.
And i know for sure i posted it cause i watched the comments for a bit to see if anyone said anything after wards
hmm i will have to just keep watch and hope it was a hick-up from some where
Thanks, FA, how's that transparency coming along for you?
Who knows, watch, they'll tell us it's the bad code, maybe that 'bad code' believes in defending zaush as much as the admins do.
But my comment had nothing to say about either parties
so thats why i find it so odd~
i was talking about this whole drama buis-nas is still being talked like it was yesterday
wasnt team mods or team zash
truly wasnt team andi-zash talk either
So why mine and a few other comments...maybe theres a comment limit on jounals and normally that limit is never met?
like your phone, it deletes the last few messages while new ones come in. We are of coarse on the bottom
It is odd that yours had nothing to do with either parties, when a lot of others (including mine) were talking about zaush. Alas, it might just be a site problem, it just seems oddly fishy.
thats really all i have to say in that matter;
Also, a lot of uncivil comments remain (namely, the ones protecting Neer's little kingdom, but still.)
didntevenknowtheycould.
Either way, I know it's not your fault. Thanks for looking into it, maybe it is just a bug, I'd much rather it be that then the other option.
I don't deny their could be a bug, I want to believe that too, but denying the option that the staff could be hiding them is foolish. We'll see, hopefully.
Hopefully you find the issue, it just seems awfully convenient that no pro-FA comments have met this fate.
I know people are distrustful, there's been years of issues that haven't been responded to. It's going to take some time to get everyone's trust back. But you just have to trust me when I say that the site code doesn't allow for admins to mark comments hidden in that way.
If I were Zaush I would feel terrible that my presence has messed up what's been a home to folks on here. I wouldn't upset a whole website and make a bunch of people leave just so I could try to make an old website look and run nicer. They could really get anyone to do that, and they had to pick someone that people already had such awful feelings about.
You can still say he's innocent and that there's no proof, and that you still don't want him on board because it would upset the whole website. I think everyone would understand. But that's not going to happen, and all the damage is already done.
It just would have been so easy to make this not terrible, but even an innocent suspicious person is really not a good choice if you want to make your website welcoming.
Mahir: I was stabbed by Officer Daughtry!
AT THE STATION
Detective: So, Officer Daughtry, did you stab Mahir?
Officer Daughtry: Nope.
Detective: Chief Quincy, who do you think stabbed Mahir?
Chief Quincy: He must've stabbed himself.
AT THE GAS STATION
Detective: After an exhaustive Internal Affairs investigation, we've concluded that you stabbed yourself. Stay safe, citizen.
Search for yourselves on google and find out for yourself what's going on here.
This Project Phoenix thing better look nice if people are shouting dramas and shit over some he said she said stuff! -_-
letsstaytogether
Honestly, I prefer a system of sorting by tag than sorting by drop-down species (especially since most stories with 3 characters will fall into the "multiple" pile rather than "dog", "feline", "pokémon" options). That is a personal bias/opinion though. I do think it's unfair to say less organised though.
http://donations.furaffinity.net/
we're all gonna eat our words when they pull thru, yessir!
And it looks better too.
i know it's "just a furry art site" but that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for something better, put our (lol) "paws down" on the subject.
why should we all just put our heads in the sand and wait for things to get worse? and they WILL get worse.
shit rolls downhill.
being complacent will just keep the standard low for all of us.
also. the ability to flag art would be nice since some pictures are not correctly classified (IE having unmistakable content placed as general, when it should be adult. or items not being filtered out since people are not able to correctly label or tag their work or content (yes I am one of those people because I haven't any idea if it even works since the search engine is more likely to find what is in the artists comments rather then tags), as well as Items that are down right stolen, or not consented to be in that persons gallery (yes, I know this can be abused))
We're also aware of the desire for a report tool, but that probably wouldn't be included in version 1 of the new site.
this way i dont get journals "holy crap" making me wonder, only to find out it was a trick "holy crap...i found a cookie"
DAMN!!!!
also a set size for journals. i dont like that they stretch the screen WAY down when people want to rant.
Maybe a few new skins for people to choose.
Folders yes, plz
deleation of old accounts that haven't been logged into for 5+ years.... so new names can pop up and be used
the ability to change your name OR pay/donate to change
new categories for search options
for people like ponies and what not, not a pony fan but im sure would help the equines that dont want pony art but horse art in there searches x3
thats all i got for right now =/ *crosses fingers for the journal pre-read*
A thousand times that. Many websites should have a policy like that because many good user names are simply not being used.
No one can tell what kind of history that account/username may have. The account/username could have been used for trolling/stalking/general harassment/uploading illegal content/theft/impersonation/scamming and no new user would want to be unknowingly tied to that. If the account was to be deleted, any existing comments would have to be removed as well - thus leaving gaps in all comment threads that account has participated in.
The ONLY time deleting an unused account is remotely reasonable is if its had NO ACTIVITY (which includes log ins) whatsoever since the day it was registered. But even then, its also not uncommon for people to register accounts on sites they have no intention of actually participating in just for the sake of thwarting impersonation efforts...
I am sure there could be even more reasons, but that coves the most common.
its a heads up
and im sure if the account was in-active there would be no comments, even if there was it would be 5+ years old...no ones going to really care about a comment 5+ years old
"its also not uncommon for people to register accounts on sites they have no intention of actually participating in just for the sake of thwarting impersonation efforts."
In other words many just register the account to get their standard username out of play on competing sites and I do think they deserve the right to do so.
Most sites really don't have the time to be noting and emailing users over that sort of thing. Even if they did, what sort of time frame would be reasonable for the staff to wait and see if they get a reply?
Sure, most won't care about 5+ year old comment. But what if that comment happens to an admission of criminal conduct? What if the account had been linked on a rather unsavory site? Then what?
I am not saying I agree with any of the reasons, I am just saying that is why most sites refrain form having such a feature.
these variables really wouldnt happen and if it was a problem, it was solved or forgotten 5+ years ago even still out of the 100 of dead accounts this issue would probably effect if ANY *cause alot just make accounts look around then leave* it might effect a good 0.5% of the 100% Thats so darn low and with FA being so old i know it will be difficult and unrealistic to even have the accounts taken down. The set up isnt there more so just a dream that names will be allowed to be used again.
twas just a suggestion~
Another suggestion...would it be possible to have a "sewing" category for the medium? We've digital, photography, traditional, all that jazz. I think it'd be nice to have sewing since there are a toooon of suit and plush makers on here. That being said, a "plush" category would also be nice.
And regarding a sewing category, it might be worth having an 'artisan crafts' section of sorts for suitmakers, plushmakers, etc. I think that does a good job to open it up to a few more styles of artwork than just suits and plushies though. :D
Problem is that the FA staff reacted way too late to address the matter. Basically by the time the fire hoses of the FA admins came into action, the countless piles of firewood had already began to burn. The problem is that when something such as a rumor is propagated around, it can reach unprecedented sizes and thus require immediate action E.G. be addressed immediately.
Now I don't know enough about the accused to play the Judge Dredd theme and go around shooting at people, but personally, if I were to hire someone that has had a history of being rumored of being involved in not-so-nice events, I'd be acting like if I was threading on paper-thin ice with underwater mines and piranhas beneath, because I know that if I screw up, the users sure as heck won't miss me at all when they're gonna pull me down underwater and I know that they won't let me get back up to the surface to breathe.
Now concerning the comments being hidden and such, whether it's been done by the users in fears or by the admins, in the current situation going into such actions equals to throwing a box of large fireworks in the hay pile, right next to the already-burning stacks of firewood. The best way to deal with it would have been to address the issue, like I said upper, ASAP.
Lastly concerning the website itself, staff, you have to admit that FA has per say not changed at all and if it did, it changed in microscopic ways, compared to other websites who offer a similar service ( such as InkBunny or Weasyl or DeviantArt ), who have undergone several transformations over time ( I can only speak about dA for that as I've not been an IB member for enough time to address that accurately and I simply do not have a Weasyl account ), in order to address in a better way the desires of the community itself. On this FA is seriously lacking novelty compared to others, and that is something that, unless addressed, will ultimately cause the downfall of the whole website ( or like they say "Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you" ). On a similar subject a transparency report on how the income of the website is distributed to get it up and running or simply maintain it ( the best example of appropriate behavior on that matter would be the French news website PCInpact, who publishes at the end of every year a summary of the revenues generated by the website and where the money went and why as seen here : http://www.pcinpact.com/news/84054-.....ns-davenir.htm , use Google translate if necessary, the text being, well, in French ).
So for short FA did okay-ish, and there's still a lot of room for improvement.
Learn analogies better you pyromaniac sexfreak. I give your review of the site, 2/58 boondoggles.
If you're planning to entertain me a little, I suggest that you display a bit more creativity in your trolling.
now his minions!!
LEEEETSS GOOO BOOOWWWLLLING HA HAAAAAA!!!!
Look at this:
http://conservationreport.files.wor.....our-world.jpeg
How big do your problems look now? Compared the rest of the universe, Earth, and all the events on it, are trivial and so is this pointless bickering over rape accusations.
According to the 'house of cards' logic I've seen in some people's blind and broad based accusations, my mate is a rapist, whether I consent to sex with him or not. I don't understand this way of thinking. The amount of hypocrisy I'm seeing in this community over this I find really quite disgusting. Don't these people have anything better to do with their time? Get a life.
To leave a website over baseless rumor, hear-say, he-said-she-said is pretty weak and I don't believe there was much keeping them here to begin with. As for all the right-nutters, unless you have physical proof to give me, piss off and shut up.
that's another one to add to the FurAffinity bingo
Furries and their drama. It never gets old. :D
I choose to not post on FA. My reasons have nothing to do with 'allegations'.
It's the site itself for me. It's too barebones and tempermental. It feels more like a silly hobby site than an art sharing site.
Most of the stuff I see here couldn't be taken seriously by even the strangest of minds.
Perhaps a real revamp would do us all good. One that brings the site into 2014 please. Or at least 2010.
I would post here if it were elevated beyond a hobby level site to a professional gallery where innovation is standard practice.
Side note on staff, some more professionalism would be nice. Having a good advanced site is only as good as the staff running it.
Organize Organize Organize Organize Organize Organize Organize Organize Organize Organize Organize
Artisan Crafts Artisan Crafts Artisan Crafts Artisan Crafts Artisan Crafts Artisan Crafts
;_________________________; otherwise it's hopeless!
However, alot of you all seem to be bitching and moaning about it, so let's get past the kneejerk reaction to the word rape and make a nice, logical list of all our (read:my) information.
What I know: There are alot of people who say/believe the guy MIGHT have raped someone, but there's no police report, there's no story, there's no word beyond the words Zaush and Rape in the same sentence. He's being considered for/hired as Admin. Alot of people on FA are reacting very poorly to this. FA relies on its community and adspace to stay afloat. The whole incident is causing alot of drama.
What this means if he's guilty: He's a horrible person who is going to get away with rape, since there's no evidence or formal accusation being made, just slander and hearsay by the masses, and the knee-jerk reaction is justified, but nothing that the community can do can really affect the life of someone like this. Any real action taken against this man can (and probably will) result in a legal reaction, which will only inflame the situation further. Two wrongs don't make a right, and since he doesn't seem to be on the fast track to being found guilty, making any rash actions against Zaush will only only make things exponentially worse.
What this means if he's innocent: I don't know if these accusations have affected his real life, but the guy's personal life, the one where he enjoys talking to a multitude of like-minded individuals in a perfectly open community, is likely over already. The fact that he has been hired and is remaining with the site admins shows that there's a level of aloofness and dedication between Zaush and Dragoneer. It's ripping the whole site apart, and neither of them are budging in their stance. Which means all of this hate, this whole desire to take Zaush down, is not only unfounded, it is utterly cruel. Talking about someone about something like this is horrible, but if you deny them the chance to do something solely because of rumors and hearsay, you are giving in to the masses and saying you believe those rumors.
What I think everyone should do: Calm they shit. Whether he's innocent or not, there's no way to prove it, and to act or react based solely on rumor and hearsay is the height of folly. This is why the justice system demands hard evidence, otherwise it's just a modern reenactment of the Salem Witch Hunt. The mere accusation has the power to ruin this man's life, if it hasn't already, and so if he's innocent, this is just bringing up another period of utter injustice in his life and making him suffer for it. We must also assume he's innocent, as the only evidence to the contrary is rumor. The concept of 'innocent until proven guilty' didn't arise from a desire to protect those who actually were guilty.
But drama furries love to read about drama, so dats da readins
No, there's no legal reason to keep him on, but there's also no legal reason to fire him either. As for the moral obligation, keeping him on the staff is the moral high ground from an objective standpoint, because you simply do not know the truth of the matter and to simply 'assume' he's guilty and treat him as such is amoral to everything the word 'justice' stands for.
Just a little reminder: Even a real world criminal court does not need "proof" of guilt to obtain a conviction and send somebody to prison.
If you have evidence, you are not going to be banned here. You don't even need to say anything on FA at all. Evidence of a crime is not supposed to be brought up here - it's supposed to be taken to the proper authorities - the police. I suspect that there is no evidence, and that the crime didn't happen. The alternative is to think that everyone who claims to have evidence is withholding it for some reason. So, which is the truth, do you have evidence, or don't you? If you don't, then stop saying that you do. If you do, then get on your phone right now and report it! If an alleged victim says it wasn't rape, then perhaps it is because it wasn't rape.
If I did provide evidence (Which some of it linked above in the comments, I growing tired of arguing its existence out of repetition), I sincerely doubt you would want to pay too much attention when you make comments like these:
"I've read all the leaked messages and do not see any evidence of rape."
"So, do you really have this so-called evidence."
"If you do, then get on your phone right now and report it!"
"Instead, we have a victim who said it wasn't rape"
"He's not being put into a position where he can view our notes and details."
Etc.
You are being willfully ignorant. You don't understand what rape is or its implications outside of a rough, inaccurate definition of violent, brutal assault in an dark ally or some shit. By saying he doesn't have access without having any way of proving it yourself, you're just going off of what your superiors are telling you. Your experience with coding on another site does not automatically apply to every other website. Also, rape is not the only thing on people's mind when they talk about the dismissal of Zaush. It still doesn't matter - He's not helping move traffic, and he is scaring away a good portion of the sites userbase simply by associating with the team. You should never discount multiple people's stories about Zaush if they are consistent, just because you think they might be biased. I made a post about this, if you want (Most important word) to read above:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:38289651
Victim, assailant and witness testimony should not be called simple "hearsay."
What witnesses? Now people are producing witnesses! First people say there is proof, then you say that no one is looking to find him guilty (despite all the people insisting that he not be allowed to code for FA), and that it would be hard to prove. Now you have witness testimony. Witness testimony would definitely be accepted as extremely strong evidence of a crime in a court of law. Do you honestly have witness testimony? A witness is someone who was there by the way. I can't believe you said that no one is trying to find him guilty. Just look at the hundreds of messages in the past week claiming that he is. Look at the people who claiming to leave because they feel he's guilty - people who insist up and down that he is. I think it's clear that some people are trying very hard to see him found guilty, regardless of any evidence or proof. Some furs want him banned and hung to die, and you actually claim that no one is trying to find him guilty. So many have already declared that he is, without proof. That sounds like trying to me.
Also, I think I know very well what rape is. One of my best friends was raped by someone she had been going out with for several months while in college. In that case, there was actually a victim who acknowledged that it happened, so that it could be dealt with properly. It still took a couple months before the victim had reasonable protection from the guy. He never did any significant time, but he was banned from the campus the moment he got out, and warned that he'd do so real time if set foot within 2,000 feet of the campus. He got himself a nice little sex offender record too, so he'd never be able to get away with that crime again. The guy only got off as light as he did because it was a first offense, and because he didn't resort to physical violence.
"Then you say that no one is looking to find him guilty (despite all the people insisting that he not be allowed to code for FA)"
Yeah, but guilty within the court of law, as proven by some investigation? Nope. BTW, Rape, at its most basic, is nonconsensual sex.
Okay, so I will add my little bit:
Hope you Admins can hands the cluster fuck and I hope to see Phoenix some time this or next year. As well, I hope the people who are leaving finally leave so it does not take 20 minutes to get to the end of these journals.
...
Nope, lol. I'm gonna go wait in a dark corner some more for awhile until things quiet down. :s
confessions....
I'd say it has to due with legal reasons or something. Since FA sells ad space and uses VigLink, I assume that makes it considered a for profit, which means donations are considered income, I think.
I have to say the security loopholes that were present in the site for long periods of times I've heard report of that were apparently ignored and the simple fact that FA Admins seem to take the banhammer approach to people bringing up legitimate concerns doesn't just appear stifling. It is.
So at least you have finally addressed SOME of the concerns the community has been raising for god knows how many years, but by the sheer amount of talented artists leaving I think it may be too little too late and this may just be bringing attention not to that your making things better but that the ships sinking.
But then again I'm on a website full of furries and we are know to be drama-fags so hey.
theres gonna be a furry or two who wont like the new layout when/if its created and established and it's gonna make some huge ass ordeal.
-sighs- furries.
Why are us poets suddenly not as important?
As a poet I feel this makes me less important. I already deal with furs who think writing is not an art-form and Poetry is not important. But to have FA not have a poetry section on the main page any more shows the community those feelings.
Poetry usto have its own section on the front page.
Fake Apps for Firefox
PC Performance ads
Asian Dating websites.
I've never had this problem before and it only happens when I browse with a tab for FA open. I'm not wanting to point fingers, but it tends to be the common denominator - is something on FA causing these pages to open up on my browser?
Please don't ban me for pointing this out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waEC-8GFTP4
No further comment.
Also, there are still no "legitimate reasons" to be concerned. It's just widespread panic fueled by rumor, and nothing else.
Well yeah. I guess as long as he stayed in his corner and away from the kids everyone was fine with him being here. Kind of like how we tolerate Yak as long as he doe- wait ... Where is Yak? The fact that someone is working on the code and he hasn't attempted to murder them is off putting. Anyway, it doesn't really help Zaush's case when it comes to coding when people only know him for his porn and he basically asked how Node.js works on twitter, he probably wasn't but that's what it ended up looking like. I'm surprised Nanuk didn't quit the second he saw what the staff was giving him to work with. It takes a strong man to continue after something like the "willingly drove" tweet.
Also, there have been plenty of people who have been arguing to have Zaush removed from the site, who in fact make up a large percentage of those who have left FA for good.
The mayor of Yiffton is Charles Ruttheimer.
Charles Ruttheimer appoints his brother Marvin to run the city's treasury.
He appoints his wife Cheryl to be the Deputy Mayor.
He appoints his friend John from high school to be Chief of Police.
He hires his son David as a security guard at the town hall.
After a while, a citizen of the town alleges that David fondled her and made lewd remarks when she was entering town hall to attend a meeting.
John declines to investigate, stating that there is no evidence.
Cheryl assures us that David showed her footage from the town hall security building exonerating him. The video is never seen by anybody else.
Charles personally vouches for David's character, and announces that he is promoting David to Chief of Security at town hall.
When citizens raise objections to this, Charles explains that David won't be at the metal detector, so there's no risk.
Oh, also, this has happened numerous times ever since Charles became mayor.
Would you believe him that David will stay away from the metal detector?
The point is, in the context of your hypothetical argument, you say that it is the victim who goes forth to accuse the rapist. But that is not what prompted the argument here on FA, it was chat leaks which did that. The victim has not gone forth with rape allegations following the incident, and if she did, then there would be news about a trial.
Without either a motive to bring somebody to court or conclusive evidence incriminating somebody of a crime, I still fail to see how this is still a question.
If Dragoneer had a single shred, one infinitesimal particle of respect for the comfort of his site's users, he would have made a moot point of this and found another coder without this dark cloud of suspicion over them. Instead, he exclusively recruits among his friends, ensuring zero transparency, zero accountability, and total immunity from punishment.
As for Dragoneer, we know he has respect for the users of this site because of the effort he's made (and still is making) to maintain the site and its database. If you argue that he has no love or respect for the users, then you are ignoring a significantly large part of the picture, my friend.
Plus, I haven't been hearing any complaints whatsoever of Dragoneer's performance as site admin until this drama started. Take from that what you will.
Are you kidding? He's been criticized from the start for cronyism, lying, failing to deliver on promises, assisting animal abuse and stalking, trouble from the FIRST Zaush crisis, the appointment of his girlfriend as senior staff, the political purging of the forums, and that's just the complaints from people OUTSIDE the staff. This guy has been trouble for a long time.
>cronyism, appointment of his girlfriend
I think the reason he chooses close friends and geographically local personalities to assist him is to make site production a bit easier and communication less problematic.
>lying
Yeah, and you haven't ever lied before either.
>failing to deliver on promises
That's a site administration issue, and while I sympathize with your opinion on this subject, it is still not exclusively Dragoneer's fault.
>assisting animal abuse
And I assume you have as shocking and crystal-clear evidence for this one as you do for the Zaush scandal.
>trouble from the FIRST Zaush crisis
Do you even have to mention this?
>political purging
I have no idea what you're supposed to mean by this.
2.) I'm sure notes will be fine, they'll be fairly secure since admin generally doesn't look into them without a trouble ticket involved.
zaush, in his journal wrote:Regarding sexual matters, I’ve grown so much since the days of swinging and casual sex, instead choosing what I consider a more fulfilling life of monogamy, shedding much of the arrogance and self centered behavior of a young man, and growing into a sociable adult. My preference for unprotected sex suits me well within that model, but don’t let my poor choices set an example for those of you engaging in casual sex. Condoms are the most effective way of preventing the spread of STDs amongst those with multiple partners.
If you’re a victim of rape or sex crime, contact the authorities, or at the very least seek a counselor who can help you make the right decision or cope. Crimes of this nature should be dealt with by those who are able to intervene, so be brave and don’t hide away in the shadows thinking nobody cares.
In that case, you are breaking the TOS right now by speaking your mind.
If something like this happened to you, would you allow it to be permitted?
Regardless of the context of the hate or the rumors that propelled them, negative speech should not be allowed to flow freely on a community website.
We are talking about dioderancher.
Staff do not care for consistency. There are hundreds of posts talking shit about the victim, blaming her, spreading misinformation, lying about her, etc. Things just as worse toward Zaush, and have been actively ignored in favor over attacks toward him. This also applies to other users not OK with Zuash being on the team, users being OK with zaush on the team, victims of sexual harassment speaking out, etc. They are not Zaush, so they are not important enough to warrant action.
https://www.weasyl.com/journal/2649.....not-be-perfect
Zaush could have avoided all of this by not joining the team. Quite simple, really.
Listen, I'm going to share the same sentiment with Johnny Bravo. If you don't think theres anything wrong with this situation, then I believe theres no talking to you. However, by continuing to defend staff without checking up on facts, you are being willfully unaware.
If you link me to the page of the person being harassed, then I will assist by filing a ticket of my own. But other than that, I see no real solution to the problem besides either to ride it out, or just deal with it, seeing as we the users have no real say in the actual administration of this site.
This was directed at Chewy.
Because if you had, then I'm pretty certain you would not have asked the questions you've just asked me.
Still, with a ton of users believing he did, it just created this big PR mess for Nanuk to try and clean up. Why even bother with it? Personally, I can't see any positives that taking this route could have had.
Personally, I kinda agree with the site's position. Those who are still willing to assert the idea of a rape having occurred without evidence or personal knowledge of the people involved shouldn't belong on the site to begin with.
And speaking of the site, I want to say something about the whole FA/Weasyl thing. Each site has it's pros and cons. FurAffinity has a very friendly UI and a big big community, though its features are akin to a desert, and the staff... Weasyl, a ton of features. They basically took what FA has stated they've wanted to do over the decade, and did it. Though its UI is like Dark Souls. It's confusing at first, but once you actually get the hang of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UdcKGWmZMs
And while I'm rambling, Project Phoenix. While I have virtually no hope that anything will get done with it and that this year is shaping up be a 2011: part deux eclectic boogaloo, the tiny shred of hope I have for this site comes from seeing Dragoneer call Weasyl a competitor sometime around when Chase fired MLR. As far as I know, he's hasn't called another site that. So maybe with the threat of competition, they'll actually try to move forward with site. But I'm not going to keep my hopes high.
If the others want to join you though, then I will too.
It's all rumors spread by the mob. Nobody can prove that rape actually happened. Furaffinity has decided to keep Zaush. If you don't like it, feel free to leave. Art sites aren't like ovens or vacuum cleaners. You are by no means restricted to using only one at a time. I don't know if Zaush left the community over this like he said he would, but if he did, I really hope he comes back. People really weren't fair to him. That whole innocent-until-proven-guilty law? At least in America. Yeah, it's a thing.
I want to see the new Project Phoenix too, and I want people to be happy. I don't care how long that takes.
Cheers to a new year and a new start!
If somebody had a reputation for touching kids, then wouldn't the parents have made a legal inquiry? Because I've seen nothing relating to the sort in this situation.
Look at the analogy.
Look at the analogy that I wrote. That one. That analogy. Read it again, please.
OK, now read it one more time. Put on your goddamn thinking cap 'cause HEEEERE WEEE GOOOO!!!!
But first, read the analogy again.
OK.
Now, put yourself in the position of that daycare owner. You are in the position of the daycare owner. You are not in the position of the police, the parents, the children, the birds chirping outside, or the coffeemaker. You are the daycare owner. Read the analogy again please, just as a refresher.
If you are the daycare owner, and both you and your customers are aware of this man's reputation, do you think it makes sense to hire him above other qualified applicants?
Read the analogy again, please, remembering that you are the daycare owner and you are making a hiring decision.
Now think about what I might have been trying to communicate.
Jesus.
If there was a legal inquiry, which there WOULD be if there were any suspicions of him being a predator in the first place, PERIOD, then it would be listed as part of that person's legal transcript. But if there wasn't, ergo, nobody involved with the employee's service had once filed a legal complaint, then there would be no information.
In real life, if there was ANY suspicion whatsoever of an employee working for a daycare organization that may have molested a child at the daycare, then no question, the parents would file a legal inquiry in a heartbeat. If other parents whose kids went to the daycare felt threatened, then they would do the same. In any case, your scenario that you've illustrated still does not hold up to the standards of due process in our current legal system.
You don't have the first clue what the phrase "due process" means, and I truly feel bad for you if you enter your adult life thinking that potential employers are not allowed to consider your reputation, regardless of what turns up in a background check. Good night.
I am applying this analogy because Zaush has a bad reputation, and his hiring has introduced a higher-than-average risk of abuse, and has upset many users of the site. It was not smart to hire him, and it would be smart to fire him now. This is not illegal, does not violate his rights, and would make more people happy than sad .
If you take it from the employee's perspective, if he was INNOCENT, yet still suspected of having molested children, even without proof, and this suspicion were common knowledge to everyone that he applies to, then it would be impossible to have a job. On top of that, no legal procedure exists that could acquit him of rumor unless it were made against him, and he were to be successful. However, no lawsuit would be prudent without evidence. A child molester is relatively easy to convict of a crime if evidence is present, and if they had a reputation, then there's an even greater chance of being convicted when there are multiple accounts present.
Here's why this logic doesn't work in Zaush's case.
1.) The accusations only come from one source, the leaked texts.
2.) The victim has not pressed charges.
3.) Rape should not be equated to child molestation.
I see no reason to fire Zaush, seeing as he is in no position to affect the users of the site in any way physically. This is all just a mass scare, motivated by fear of future sexual assaults from him even though that this is the only rape accusation we've ever heard of him (and nothing similar has happened for the three years following its initial occurrence). I do agree that everybody is entitled to an opinion. What I don't agree to is forcing your opinion on everybody you can find for miles around that doesn't agree with you.
If you don't think Zaush belongs on FA, fine. But there really is no choice other than to a) deal with it or b) find a new site.
What isn't productive: arguing about it until you piss off more and more people without getting anything of substance accomplished.
I'm done arguing. Have fun with your flamewar.
"this suspicion were common knowledge to everyone that he applies to, then it would be impossible to have a job"
"and this suspicion were common knowledge to everyone that he applies to, then it would be impossible to have a job"
Dragoneer (the daycare owner) is re-hiring a friend and daycare attendant, Zaush (site coder with a nasty past), who has a public history w/ something really bad at this daycare. The parents (users) have expressed their concerns and discomfort, as well as shown the reasons why this is, to the daycare owner about this for several weeks.
Not to mention that the parents have heard from other daycare workers (other site coders) that this guy isn't good at teaching (coding a website), so history aside they really don't understand why he's being considered for this position again anyway.
The parents are telling the daycare owner how uncomfortable they are with this decision, but daycare owner re-hires this guy anyway,
So now most of the the parents a fed up with all of this, especially the ones that know about the attendant's dangerous history. They feel their kids (online presence) wont be safe here because this new attendant. The daycare owner says that this is an important issue to him, but his actions don't back this up and he does nothing about the situation and keeps the guy on staff, and most the parents can see that and are disgusted.
So now the parents are bringing their kids to a different daycare (art site), wondering why any other parent is still bringing their kids to this daycare.
"Most people on FA didn't feel that there was a significant risk before of having their notes read, so they used it to share their full names and phone numbers with friends, arrange for events at their homes or school addresses, or otherwise transmit personal information. Some have used them to share deeply personal information with trusted friends, not imagining that anybody would have the motivation to spy on little ol' them. IPs can be used for rough geographic location, and in some cases to determine a user's specific workplace or school. Session logs can provide clues to a user's home/work/sleep schedule. E-mail addresses and passwords are very sensitive, because a LOT of people make the mistake of sharing passwords across sites. An unscrupulous staff member with access to a person's e-mail address and a password may potentially have access to accounts on Facebook, PayPal, Twitter, forums, other art sites, or maybe even their personal e-mail account, which could potentially increase the list of vulnerabilities to include things like bank accounts. With access to information like this, it is entirely plausible that an unscrupulous staff member could place a vulnerable user in a bad position. For instance, by threatening (via a false identity, most likely) to reveal embarrassing kinks to an employer if the user doesn't send them naked pictures. Or, for another example, to change a person's Facebook password and threaten to post humiliating content unless they agree to perform sexual favors in their dorm room."
jesus fucking christ
Most parents are probably out of the loop, or simply don't think it applies to them, or don't see the problem in the situation. They are unconcerned, and that is their right. Whether any of us is right to leave/stay will either be proven by another setback, or remain unproven forever.
Less users = less trouble tickets to worry about.
...I have no Idea why I am here
i have no idea what is even happening now...
*shrug*
Admittedly in this case having read some of the stuff now it doesn't look good, but I'm very hesitant to take sides in something that has nothing to do with me.
Can't just bury your problems, hide them and run from them- you need to face them.
I think this is the schadenfreude talking, but I find it hilariously sad that if the preferred option is to smother criticism, how can they (the FA staff in question) every expect to learn and improve?
Maybe this attitude or course of action is simply just a reflection of who you are as people?
If it's not possible to simply lock journals without deleting them, then perhaps those are the changes that need to be made.
Locking a journal in violation of our policies, however, wouldn't be the best move. I understand the reasoning, but we would continue to leave the offending content visible to the community. The only difference would be the inability for others to comment on it.
I'm not sure why this is so hard to follow: if you delete the journal, you can't determine if you should look into it. Nor can anyone confirm whether or not someone was in the wrong to begin with. All we have is FA's say so that someone disobeyed the rules, and, given FA's crappy track record, people are going to be naturally skeptical without proof.
Locking a journal in violation of our policies, however, wouldn't be the best move. I understand the reasoning, but we would continue to leave the offending content visible to the community. The only difference would be the inability for others to comment on it.
So put a note that says this journal has violated the rules! People need to see how the rules have been broken, for one (let's face it, TL;DR policies are not often read, so how are people to know without seeing an example), and for two people need transparency. Stifling the community only pisses people off, no matter how good your intentions or how many rules have been allegedly broken. You may in fact be able to see deleted content, but as I said before, non-admins can't. All we have is your say so that someone fucked up and unless someone screencapped it, we as users have no way to prove someone crossed a line. Deleting journals gets you absolutely nowhere; like I said, you handled the stalker incident the same damn way and look where it got you.
I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree on how I believe the best way to approach the situation would be. Users are free to share reasons for their content removal, and I always advise individuals to take it with a grain of salt and understand that the individual may not be telling the truth.
However, I don't believe it's appropriate to publicly explain administrative action against an individual, except perhaps when extenuating circumstances require us to return integrity to a situation. And even in extenuating circumstances it must be a case-by-case determination.
May I explain why?
Even if you or another admin shrug off what I put to you and say 'Oh, this isn't violating the rules', have you thought perhaps that different people have different ways of thinking, and see where they're coming from?
If I tell you now to review your policies, are you actually going to do that? My impression is that you all follow it blindly loyal, to your benefit and detriment. Tell me this is not the case? It is totally feasible to look at them again and amend them.
I don't know... I'm guessing build trust up somehow? This is why I keep chasing and enquiring- to be as satisfied as I can be. If I'm not happy with someone's conduct or attitude, I ask to speak to someone else.
That said, we do react and respond to suggestions and constructive criticism regarding site policy. We're working on reworking many site policies at the moment, actually, as outlined in the article. We hope to incorporate feedback from the community as well as what staff members have observed in order to make these improvements. I'd be more than happy to listen to any suggestions you may have, and bring them to the table as we move forward.
I understand it will take time to demonstrate that we listen, and I ask you to be patient with us during this process.
This will be a vague sentence, but I simply don't want FurAffinity to suck. I don't want the actions and attitudes of the staff who run it to ruin my experience. This is preaching to the choir, because hey, this is the biggest furry website, but the furry fandom is something that means a lot to me. I've met lots of nice people here, and lots of cool artwork, and I even got into fursuiting.
It isn't a quantity that is measurable, but furrydom is something I give a damn about. A lot of a damn about. That's why I seek satisfaction when I use FA. I won't settle for a less than fantastic experience when I go on the website. That's why I try to point out things I'm not happy with, and I understand other people may view things differently.
I want to see FA succeed and excel.
Didn't you guys do this multiple times and say the same thing over the past few years? Guess it didn't happen after all.
So I guess dog and horse rapists in Montana, Wyoming, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Alabama, Kentucky, Ohio, West Virginia, Virginia, New Jersey, New Hampshire, and Vermont can breathe a sigh of relief. I can only assume that they will be allowed to admit to raping an animal since we've already got an admitted zoophile on staff and Dragoneer has already said "it's okay, it wasn't illegal in FL at the time!"
Okay so I'll rape all the people around you, you can rape all the people around me and everything will be just fine XD
will probably be
allllllllllright!
My hopes are that within a week, Dragoneer will be like "sorry, i fucked up, what do?" when all the issues people have are right here in these journal comments.
Pick your poison, I guess.
You're part of the problem, come down to Earth.
I'm done.
Getting defensive alone is amusing me.
I'm just bored and having fun.
http://d.facdn.net/art/bandit/13905.....thumbnail2.png
its justin bieber yo
this new update better have tacos fender, or to the weirdly named other site I goes <3
FA is my home, but I want something that doesn't look like steamclient and runs less like a cottage cheese milkshake c:
I urge all users to avoid sending personal information over FurAffinity, whether by notes, journals, or shouts, and to ensure that your FurAffinity password is not used for any other site.
very wow
very idiot
such agression
Trust me. There's more complaining about drama going around than there is complaining about drama, if you know what I mean.
sides achieved orbit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bua5EMp8glY
Let it die, let it die
Let it shrivel up and die.
LET IT SHRIVEL UP AND DIE
its just strange to me how suddenly, tgis affects
Honestly, that's like someone getting mad at a guy for being in the same room with a girl and happens to look at said girl briefly. Just because you're the opposite sex doesn't mean they are into you. lol
I don't think he would go out of his way to scope through notes to go to people's houses and fuck them.
And spend time in REAL prison.
I am not even standing UP for him, and I think this is all just so fucking absurd.
The Project Phoenix team has access to the database schema, but no data within it. Very few people, even on the operations team, have access to the production database.
There's no evidence I can really give you other than explaining that they have no access to the production database servers. Nor is there really any way I can think of to reasonably bring in a third party as you have requested.
How on earth are you supposed to show that a coder for a site doesn't actually have access to notes?
He's not a site admin.
He's coding a site, and it's not even THIS ONE currently.
I wish people would let off. The man is trying to fix the site and make it look better than it is, and if he were to up and leave RIGHT now, not only would he be accused of "molestation/rape/insertsexcrimehere", but seen as "The guy who never finished coding the new site. Thanks FA."
All of this is just so backwards.
To answer your earlier post, I work a job and collect hundreds of people's addresses, credit card numbers, phone numbers, etc. Regardless of my contract, if I (or anyone) honestly wanted to and was malicious enough, I could straight up charge thousands of dollars to your account and post your information online within ten minutes. Of course I would never do that, but there is still potential. Think about those who work the same job as I do, and then ask yourself, "Do I honestly know these people, and can I trust them with this information?" (It's common for some callers to hang up or ask me personal questions the moment I ask for personal info)
OK, now, ask what you know about Zaush, and consider the possibility that he could have access to your notes, or your friends notes, or someone Else's notes, or etc. Then, consider the fact that people use this site for business or personal purposes, and could give out any information about themselves, business or personal, it doesn't matter which.
What most people know about Zaush is that he is manipulative, is a possible sexual predator and incompetent coder that hires based on friendship rather then credentials. These are things we have learned not just from others who have interacted with them, but from his own behavior as recorded online. Simply showing in some way that Zaush cannot access notes would kill off a lot of concern instantaneously. Until then, unsubstantiated claims will remain hollow.
On another topic, about this massive pile of comments... I hope the new site features include comment pagination. A little something to make the massive pile of comments a lot less massive. It took me about 2-3 minutes this time to load everyone's avatars and comments. So maybe limiting them to 50-100 a page would be a good idea, especially for lower-bandwidth users like me. Unless it already exists, and I'm just dumb and don't know how to use it lol.
too much drama, i just say to my self, stay on here, FB. YT. Weasel, SF ETC> And carry on.
Pfffft...Jesus Christ man. I think its clear that this drama is sounding like a broken record. I agree with you this shit needs to end. "BAAAAWWWW Mean O Admins! BAAAAWWWW Raper! GRRRRRRR Down with FA." Honestly I do feel that the hate mob is trying to force feed THERE side down the throats and not give anybody the option to come to there own conclusions. Its either there side or you are a blasphemer. We all get it! The hate mob, well at least the half dozen or so of the most most vocal here, don't like this website. You don't like Zaush because the rumor mill says he is a tried and convicted raper, sex offender, dog fucker. You believe this website's admins are corrupt. And no argument to the contrary is going to make you budge in your believes much like your argument is not going to make people like me budge either. Everything that needs to be said has been said. At this point this is all sounding like an old broken record of NU UH!! .....UH HUH!!. End this shit and let people draw there own conclusions on this.
That said, anybody who's pouring out the kind of hatred you describe on another user, no matter their position on the matter, is an ass. I'm sorry if you (and friends of yours, judging from your journals) been treated like enemies of humanity for disagreeing with us. Our task should be to persuade others and explain our arguments, not to denounce and alienate those who don't share our perspective. Any abuse that's been inflicted on you and your friends for not picking our side is uncalled-for and unacceptable.
What is your best strategy is tapping into the people that already have a dislike for this website. I believe both sides of this argument can agree that there are allot of people not happy with FA. There are thousands of them maybe tens of thousands out of a website that serves over 700,000 users. Focus your energy and efforts on them. Rally them into a unified front to do something big and noticeable like boycotting FA. If you believe the admins and the opposition are not listening to the dialogue like whats taking place here. They will most certainly listen to numbers, Traffic numbers. If you manage to rally at least a good portion to boycott this website then the admins will see a drop in traffic and therefore a drop in ad revenue and donations. And if they cherish the bottom line then maybe they will listen and do what it takes to get those numbers back up.
Thing is with a website as big as FA and larger, traffic numbers speak loudly while flame wars like this one go unheard and only serves to make both sides look like fools. Rallying together supporters of your side into unified front that will speak through disturbing the traffic numbers via things like a boycott will warrant a response from the admins and maybe even get your opposition to take a second look at your case. Otherwise you are banging your heads up against the wall just as you say the opposition is doing.
Except that:
1. They didn't HIRE him.. he is VOLUNTEERING
2. He isn't a convicted rapist, Not even sure that the accuser used that word at all.
God, I can't believe people are STILL beating this dead horse.
LET IT DIE.
Second, Who are the others who have come out about him harassing them? The only other rumor people have said here is Squiggles, but she has come out and said that is not true.
I do not have my nose nor my head in the wrong place, but its pointless arguing with you.
We can find the answers to what has been posted on FA, but if you think that is the whole story, you are a fool.
Since that is the case, I can't see a good reason to take him off the project unless there is someone with more skill who is willing to do the job. Maybe there is, who knows. *shrug*
He is coding a site, and not even THIS site, he is coding a NEW site with NO information on it at all. He will not need, nor will he get ANY access to ANY private information.
It can't be much clearer than that.
Finally, just because a rapist isn't convicted doesn't mean that he's not a rapist. He was never convicted in the court of law, yes, but that doesn't mean he has been acquitted either. It's one thing to say "we only have written accounts and no investigation, therefore we shouldn't be so quick to assume that a rape occurred." It's another thing entirely to say "He wasn't convicted or sent to court, therefore what he did was not rape."
What I don't get is, why did the accuser go to Dragoneer and not the cops? It seems odd.
Did Dragoneer handle it correctly? Well again I don't know what was said or done or not said or done, but we can assume that probably things were handled badly on more than one side here.
I have been trying to say "we have only written account and no investigation, therefore we shouldn't be so quick to assume that a rape occurred" until my face has turned blue in this thread. Some people are very quick to assume guilty until proven innocent.
I actually heard that he's being paid.
[screencap](http://imgur.com/asMblJ6)
On second glance it's not saying he's being paid, just that they don't want pro-bono people :P Disregard I guess.
Nobody gets paid to help the site. Theoretically nobody even has contractual obligation or repercussion to fail to help where otherwise promised. I think the current quantity of feedback if you can find it here is pretty decent as is.
So a guy that POSSIBLY, not definitely, but maybe, raped a girl is on staff and some decide to throw a hissy fit, leave the site, and migrate to some new site because of it? Is that about the gist of it?
The only things I have to say are this:
Ok, so what if he did in fact rape someone? That's horrible and all, but what I want to know is, what the hell does that have to do with the functionality of this site and what the site stands for and is intended for? So, what, do some of you actually think that just because they put someone on staff for a renovation project, it automatically means they condone rape, therefore by association, if you stay, you also support rape? Does it mean you gotta be the guys best friend and associate with him if you find him so guilty? I just don't get it... You people act as if a person's alleged crimes has anything to do with a job they do on a friggin' website. You act as if he is taking over for Dragoneer as owner of the site, even then it would still be ridiculous, but a bit more understandable... You also act as if he is a pedophile working at a childrens daycare, now THAT would be understandable, but c'mon kiddies..... He is programming for the site for a design project and you throw this kind of a fit?
As disgusting as the crime of rape is, which I don't even know for sure if he is guilty or innocent of, I find some peoples behavior towards this whole thing even more disgusting and pathetic... I mean damn... I don't condone rape, I don't like or associate with rapists, and I damn sure would never wish anyone to be raped, but I also understand that whether or not the guy committed the crime, has absolutely nothing to do with what he is doing with the site's current project, nor does it mean that me staying here supports rapists or condones rape period... It's just silly to let your morality on this issue make you leave the site cause some guy that may or may not have committed something against yours (and my own, trust me) morality...
It's like this.... If a grocery store you frequently shopped at hired a known rapist in an effort to allow ex cons back into the working place, would you stop shopping there all together just cause that crazy ass cashier raped someone once? If you answer yes to that, I think you're a little unstable yourself. You're just shopping for groceries, you're not playing let's make friends with the staff or accept everything they do as part of our moral system.
Bottom line is this... Rape is horrible, obviously... You'd have to be an idiot to argue the other side of that argument, but to act as some people have over this situation is a whole other kind of idiot.
[b]I reiterate that he has no access to the production database, or any data therein.[/i] Nor will he be given privileges to see user information through administrative tools. In the event of misconduct, he would be held accountable the same as any other member of staff. Again, you are free to express your concerns, but please do not assert them as fact. It is intentionally disruptive.
"[...] he would be held accountable the same as any other member of staff."
I'm not gonna mince words here. That means that he will not be held accountable in the slightest degree, and will be actively shielded from scrutiny, criticism, or even legal prosecution.
Seriously. This 100%
I hate it when I see things get in such a state such as this journal. It infers to me that we don't even need outsiders chipping away at us saying we're sexually perverse and are into real-life bestiality- all those things you've heard levied against us. I think that my biggest fear is that if we were to collectively bicker like this, at length and at great frequency, then it just sets us, the fandom onto a path of self-destruction, and then nobody would win, and everybody would lose out.
Being transparent and such... *yawn* I hear that everywhere, eversince NSA happened - well, eversince Snowden happened, lol. But i dont see anything changing. o.O In fact, I see FA closing down even further. Whatever, this sinking ship wont go away, so just stay ontop and do what you can with it. ovo
Like it? Use it.
Don't like it? Don't use it.
It's kind of like if someone is a guest.. a friendly pointer or actually constructive criticism would likely not be considered rude to the host. The personal attacks and such seem a little much.
I've got my gripes about the site, but I also realize that the folks running this thing are by no means obligated to provide it. I've seen plenty of furry communities die because the host threw up their hands and said 'screw it, y'all are a bunch of ungrateful assholes.' A real shame.
The best possible thing Dragoneer could do for this community is give FA up. As long as he's involved, it's tainted with the corruption and sycophantry he's practiced ever since he got his hands on it. This place could be amazing with new, community-oriented management. Unfortunately, I suspect Neer'd be more likely to just yank the site and squat the domain out of sour grapes.
Oh god. Aren't you just a delusional little self absorbed parasite?
Speaking of knocking, I find it - no, I don't find it funny - I find it wonderfully hypocritical of you to see my comment and fly off the deep end and try and speak of my character, rather than the comment itself. In fact, you didn't even speak a word about the actual comment. It was mostly just flavorless insults. Why? Because you can't actually answer for the fact that 90% of 'this' is people getting worked up over rumors and false accusations, and people spreading those false accusations. And you can accuse me of not reading the comments. I wouldn't blame you. It seems like you don't. Or rather, you think that this journal is the sole source for the material at hand. Yes, I know people are upset about having their comments removed. ... but if the comments didn't refer back to fantasy as fact, they wouldn't be considered liable. But they are, and people get in trouble for letting that kind of float. Not you. Not that you'd give a damn if they did. But they do. And I would be the one to make sure my ass is covered, no matter what the people like YOU think of it.
Maybe you should stick to whatever porn you consider normal and stay out of the discussion.
"Or rather, you think that this journal is the sole source for the material at hand."
"lewl you're a moron for making assumptions about me, let me make assumptions about u some more now!!!"
what r u 5 years old? you came in here flinging your arms saying the only criticism available was about "half baked rumors" on zaush. you're the one making ill informed assumptions here, i think its only fair to call you out on that and make a guess why.
As for what 'i r' -- i r think you really believe this Chewy person appologized to me, and that he didn't get reported for trying to get around an ignore, which he laughably admits to not a comment later. That's what i r.
Yeah, I did. I explained why I had gotten mad and apologized to you for being an asshole. I even tried to be friendly in the message. But hey, if you want to hold a grudge against some guy on the internet you'll never meet, that's cool. I just wanted to own up to my mistake.
SlainMonkey
I'm just wondering where the forethought was. I mean, look at this big blowup. Though I suppose zaush might have been the only one yak would let anywhere near the code.
in that I'm a mental health patient (unspecified, but nonviolent/nondangerous) and also a proud gun owner, who has already checked multiple times (including after my recent move auf New Years) with the local authorities regarding my exact specific history and my intents
but apparently the fact that I attempted to lighten the mood with a 'never gonna let you down' reference was just too much
so I don't really know if it's worth it, they seem to be composed of multitudes disembodied butts in pain (butthurt)
Instead of rehashing it in this thread, I'll just link you to this one, where I (and Mouthrot) provided an analogy. The important pieces are suspicion, a privileged position, a friendship with the owner, and people that prefer to use a little common sense instead of demanding criminal court rules of evidence in their daily lives.
(Pardon the hidden comment -- I messed up with my tags.)
"You're not going to win."
I don't say this to assume that you're trying to gain the advantage in this exchange but more because I've been here a long-ass time and have seen this lovely person grow into what they've become and as such I can honestly say that it's very unlikely that even if you have the clear advantage of speaking truthful, it's only ever going to be twisted around or ignored.
There's a reason they went specifically for an elephant that is multi-sexed... aka, "It has to be an original characturr." That alone should be the biggest red-flag you could possibly see (as it's a pattern that's been repeated many, many times with many people in more fandoms than just the furry fandom.)
Lets start with the big one: Did zaush rape someone? We have no evidence that fully supports that. All we have are those leaked Pm's, screencaps, and few people stating that he has harassed, been creepy, and generally been rude to them before, but that in no way proves he raped someone. At the very least, it does show he's kind of a prick. So it seems that the schism that divides us will forever remain because of dragoneers massive failure of foresight. Seriously though, why should we care about some jackass who doesn't understand what personal boundaries are when the entire administration and this site have been coasting along on our donations for almost an entire decade.
Project Phoenix: It's essentially Ferrox rebranded. It takes more than putting a new coat of paint on an old project to make everyone have confidence in you again.
Zaush's coding skills: On his twitter, before he nuked it to prevent an even bigger PR blunder, it stated that he was a 3D UI Developer. Haven't seen his resume so I don't know how true that is. I don't know much about coding, so I don't know if being just a UI developer will help immensely with leading a whole code rewrite. Especially if the team is just filled with yes men who won't dare question him.
Zaush is gonna be an admin!: Well a few of the admins and zaush has stated that he won't become an admin. I'd advise you take that with a grain of salt though because Sciggles. "But what about her has t-" Sciggles! "Hey you didn't even le-" SCIGGLES! For those who don't know what I mean, Dragoneer and scriggles had stated that she wouldn't become an admin. Then she became an admin.
New staff to solve those troubles tickets: This site historically has had a high turnover rate and a high number of inactive admins. I'm not sure how long these new people will stay on staff before they either get booted out by other admins or quit to salvage whatever sanity they can escape with. And that's if they decide not to stay the course on the S.S. Cronyism.
it's the rats jumping ship while the mad captain stands at the helm shouting orders to an absent crew about how grand their vessel will be once they find some shipwrights to repair it.
Team Bean: Call me cynical, but I'm highly suspicious that Dragoneer didn't just forget. "But he said he did" Did you know I'm the king of France? "Really" No, that was a lie. People can lie. Especially on the internet. I hope for Zaushes sake that life doesn't get in the way with this project, or he'll be crowned king douche for sure.
This is a free site: Sorta yes and no. This site is run on the massive donation drives, paid ad's, and VigLink which the opt out of button has been rumored not to work.
If you don't like it, then leave: If I don't like it, I want to do my best to make it better. Especially if my friends are here, my watchers are here, and the people I watch are here. Leaving means leaving things behind, and that is sometimes a hard thing to do. Especially for those who do commissions to pay the rent.
As for the team that's been put together, it isn't just "yes men". We have a lot of discussions on how best to proceed, as any team does, and come to a conclusion from there. As with any team we have some members who are stronger in some areas, such as UI or backend work.
As for thinking that zaush will become an admin just because sciggles did, that's a bit of a leap in logic. If someone requires administrative privileges to perform their functions, they'll be given what is necessary. Since Zaush does not require administrative privileges to perform his role, it stands to say that he will not be given them.
As for the high turnover rates and inactive administrators... these are two different yet connected issues. It's important to remember that this is a volunteer driven site. All staff members volunteer their spare time to help out the site, for which we are immensely grateful. But, that also means they have real lives outside of their responsibilities here. As with any volunteer team, you'll have admins who find they cannot give as much time as they had intended, and that may cause them to step back or step down from their roles. A lot of people automatically assume that this is somehow related to "cronyism", but I can tell you that it's the same on practically any site with a volunteer team.
Regarding the other team working on the project. Regardless of whether or not they were forgotten, a lack of contact for a period of several months would lead anyone to a similar conclusion. If they only had very limited contact to begin with, I too would have assumed that they no longer were interested in working on the project. It's important to note that I was a part of the other team as well, and recruited for this one.
Regarding VigLInk, if the opt-out tool isn't working please let me know and I'll look into it. I have mine set to opt-out and it's working on my end.
I understand that leaving isn't the ideal situation for many people, which is why my goal, and the goal of all the staff right now, is to make things better in the next year. We understand things have been allowed to lapse, and there's a lot of community resentment, rumors, and concerns, and we're working on rectifying them. Hopefully I'll see you around these update articles in the future!
What functions does Sciggles need administrative privileges for? She didn't need them before.
One does not need administrative privileges in order to nefariously add code in order to bypass security in the new site. Even if he is never officially given administrative privileges, he can still make himself as powerful as Dragoneer when it comes to what he can and cannot do on the site.
He cannot be trusted as he has already shown he is a person of poor morals. We're also not talking like he did some stupid stuff 10 years ago. This was rather recent, and one cannot safely say that someone has changed for the long term in such a short time.
The assertion that he will "nefariously add" anything is absolutely ridiculous. First, as I've stated before, there is code review as with many organizations to ensure code is excellent. Second, there's nothing that makes him professionally incapable.
So you're saying that Zaush will not be able to add bad code because FA will consult a 3rd party to ensure the code is secure? Like when they consulted a 3rd party to make sure the current code is secure?
dioderancher has pretty much said everything that needs to be said.
Secondly, code review is not performed by a third party. At no point did I say that. The coding team is comprised of various individuals that all review code submitted by the others.
It damn-well should! It shows that the person has no problem violating the rules! You wouldn't want a cop on your local police department if they have been convicted, sentenced, and punished for a crime, would you? Most likely not. You would want the best people, who haven't got in trouble with the very organization that they would like to "help", regardless of their relationship to the owner of the organization.
So the code is reviewed by...the people coding it? Wow. I feel really secure now! Kinda like getting the house you're having build inspected by the illegal migrant workers who built it instead of someone who is qualified to inspect houses. Totally not shady at all.
Zaush isn't married to the sole owner/board chair of the site and/or organization that owns the site
its a pain in the ass to scroll through it all
All I can say is that the admins better pull one huge musclebound rabbit out of their hat on this one to even begin to gain back most people's respect again. I know it's going to take a lot for me to trust anything the admins say for quite some time and I have a feeling a lot of people here feel the same way.
Sure, I want the site to be better, but I think it doesn't need a huge overall all at once to get it done. I think that is one reason nothing is ever finished. Break the upgrades, improvements, and changes into little bites. Work in little changes into the site we have now. Tighten and tone the engine that runs this site and work to make it better instead of a massive project that may or may not be ever finished. I think if people see little things being done and released into the wild, so to speak, people might get behind you more.
I think the main issue here is the admins need to listen to the site at large. Learn about the people here, find out what they need, want, and desire in this site. You might be surprised that a lot of them will be little things and the starts of smaller projects. You might say "The site is too big, too many people, we can't listen to everyone and give them everything they want" That's part of the problem, you don't have to give us everything we want. We aren't a group of furry five year olds who cry if we can't get the flavor lollipop we want. Just read about them, watch for patterns, and things that get asked for over and over and over again. That will help you gather a stronger plan of attack. Just because a feature the admins want doesn't mean most people want or will ask for it.
If it were me, I'd stop, take a deep breath, and devote a month, ONE MONTH, to gather info. Post a journal like this. Let people tell you what features and changes they want to see in the future of this place. Keep a running tally of things that keep getting asked for and work on how can this feature be installed into the site. It will make the upgrading of the site a whole lot easier on you in the long run. It might take you longer to finish everything, but if little things are done along the way, people will have more faith in what is going on.
Now, the elephant in the room. Zaush. I don't know the guy, and to be honest, I don't want to. I do know that having him here is causing a whole lot of stress within the site. Whether he did rape someone or not, evidence or not. Look at it from our side. If something was making such a large part of someplace uncomfortable, uneasy, and upset. It might be for the best interest of the site if he stepped down. Not fired, stepped down. I'm not saying that he should leave, just assigned a task with less contact with the areas that are making people upset. If he proves himself and does those tasks without incident, it will make some of the uneasiness smooth over.
These are just my thoughts on the subject. Take my advice or not. I don't care. I just wanted to toss out some ideas, suggestions, and opinions. A reply or two from the admins would at least show me you are at the very least listening to what we have to say.
Thanks for at least listening to my thoughts.
- Anpu-Ra *hugs* ^,..,^
I'm afraid I'm unlikely to pull a little musclebound rabbit out of a hat... and I'm trying *so* hard not to make a much more inappropriate joke right now. But yes, we're definitely going to have to work a lot to get trust back with the community. It's also important to remember that this won't happen overnight, so it's something we're going to have to work toward for a while.
As for the decision to overhaul the site at once. It boiled down to necessity when it comes to how we wanted and needed to approach this. Unfortunately, with the way the site works now it wouldn't really be compatible with any of the modifications we wanted to do. So, while yes it would be ideal to be able to swap out the backend piece by piece, for example, it's going to be all or nothing. It's why the first iteration of the new site is going to, feature-wise, be very close to the current site. We're going to add a few key features, but overall we're going to hold off on a lot of things until we get that out. We can make incremental improvements from that point on, but we have to start with a huge leap.
As per listening to the community, that's something I really want to do a lot more in the coming months. I want to make it more apparent how to suggest improvements, as well as make us more open to suggestions. As per taking suggestions and thoughts from the community, we are currently aggregating suggestions, thoughts, and input from these updates, especially pertaining to site features and design.
1. You say that a complete overhaul is needed but the staff and admins have shown that this is unlikely going to happen, Broken promises and such. Little steps showing that something is actually being done would show the greater site that you ARE actually doing something. A big update only shown in words and a screenshot isn't going to win very many people over.
2. The site has never shown any listening to the community as so far it has still shown none. No one has ever asked what we want in the site and I doubt that you have plans to. From what we have been shown so far, the new site has little to show that "first iteration of the new site is going to, feature-wise, be very close to the current site" It is in fact a cluttered mess. Trying too hard to cram too much info onto one page. Thus making it complex, bulky, and as far as I can tell, little room for personalization.
3. With the adding of the , albeit useless, Commissions tab. It does show that it would be possible to grow the current site and an overhaul is not fully needed. It is simply being made too weighed down and clunky for the sake of redoing the site. Best to keep things simple and work in small steps. This is basic 101 in pretty much everything.
2. I'm sorry that you feel we're not listening to you at this point, in the near future I do plan to post more updates that center around community suggestions and seek community input and feedback on things we're considering and working on. We're aware that the initial post we made felt very cluttered to a lot of folks and we're working on rectifying that in the next iteration.
*reads update and comments* damn... .__.
Are there scrapers for journals that mention Weasyl. In the past, there has been evidence of scrapers for the site InkBunny as well as two other users. And recently, two admins had been commenting in the journal of someone who neither of them followed
Without giving names, can you divulge the number of people working on the rewrite. SilverAutomatic on twitter had stated there were a few. Is the current listing of technical staff also working on it.
How will the new staff be chosen.
Are they going to be using node.js for the rewrite.
MLR had his forum mod status revoked by Chase. According to MLR, the reason given by Chase was his involvement with a "competing site" (Weasyl). Does the rest of the staff share this viewpoint and is that what spurred this attempt to happen.
Can you confirm or deny that an even more controversial figure will be leading the next site rewrite attempt. I assume some sort of tora/chase hybrid.
What is your opinion on everything?
Not really. But I'll answer what I can.
I didn't have any relationship with Ben/Myr prior to that project. My role there would have been about the same as it is now, product manager / marketing / relations dudeman. As for how temporary or permanent my position is, I'll just say I'm hoping to stay involved for a while.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by a "scraper", but I can say that often times I or other members of staff are linked journals of individuals we don't follow by other staff members, friends, acquaintances, enemies, etc.
As for how new staff will be chosen, I'm not entirely sure since that isn't what I do. ;) And as for the specifics of what the rewrite will be in, I'm going to hold off on that but I can check to see how much of that we're comfortable disclosing.
I can't confirm or deny what we hopefully won't have to do for a good long while.
And my opinion on everything is that I'm a bit tired and could go for some pancakes.
I really do not want to see "LIKE" buttons showing up on here, it is the one site I go to that doesn't have a "Thumb's Up" or "Thumb's Down" on it.
Also, if ads are going to start showing up on the site; which I understand as it gives revenue to keep the servers free and such, please keep them at a minimal size. I really do not enjoy a third of my screen taken up by an ad and further do not appreciate ads that do not have a mute button on them. Ads that do not have a mute ability in them are ones I make point to not purchase from in the future.
As for the rest of the situation, for those of you who are leaving this site for Weasly/Sofurry/ other furry sites, when you first joined this site, you, yes you, pretty much agreed to view the drama that does come up with this site. But this site is not the only one with it's problems. Facebook and Tumblr most notably. Facebook for it's, what we call in some cases "popufur" syndrome, with some people towering over other, telling those who's opinions don't matter. A similar situation with Tumblr, with hate going against someone who's opinion doesn't coincide with someone else's, or god forbid, is the exact opposite of the proposed opinion. There are the negatives to every site, and yet, there is always room for improvement. The staff on most sites are normally stressed/overloaded with the problems, and their negative attitude toward you, may not be FOR you. Many of the administration are constantly stressed with the amount of harassment that THEY get on probably a daily basis. Now this I cannot confirm, but I've had a pretty good Idea from what I have read.
Here's a reminder of those who are leaving this site, you are only having a temporary relief from the drama. No one person can avoid drama for all their life, especially if you are on the internet. You are eventually going to run into similar situations, no matter where you go. There is no reason to leave a site for drama, that isn't even directed toward you. If you do feel threatened by anyone, please, address it to the administration immediately.
I am not pointing fingers with this post, but only attempting to shed some light on the whole situation.
I thank you for your time for reading this, who ever you are. :3
Thanks.
In the case of content removal, it's standard for any website to remove disallowed content and notify the user in question, that is generally accepted to be the warning.
THERE'S A WAR ON FOR YOUR MINDS
I'm glad none of you apparently have any experience in being a victim, made quite clear by your response to it all, from the first huge-ass fuck-ups on the replies on Twitter to this batch of bull. I hope, in all honesty, from the bottom of my heart, none of you ever will. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemies.
Maybe I just feel this way because somehow, despite everything I'd read so far, something in this response just... triggered something. I was in tears for a good hunk of time there.
Just don't ever try to help victims, or the rate of suicide might sky-rocket.
Very, very broken units they are.
Speaking of, any chance fa could adopt a sort of nesting system with their forum comments, in order to avoid these out of control comment threads? Especially on community news/updates like this? Kind of like every other site that has comments, where after a certain number of responses you need to click to load the string, or even just a page based system? Something? Since you're working on the coding anyways?
been nice knowin ya FA till your staff turned to be kinda assholes wow.
gonna have fun over at weasyl, it always seemed more inviting anyhow ovo
in any case thanks for the luck wishes, regardless of whether they were passive aggressively added or not. can't tell. u vu
And 52 seconds later, (because I went back and timed it,) I finally reached the bottom.
SelkiGal: A nesting thing would be great. But unfortunately, let's face it, every coding operation on this site EVER, is hamstrung due to the fact that most of the decisions over what to change in the User Interface are not dedicated to any specific coder or group of coders. And therefore final decisions all fall to..... whoever is crazy enough to bully the rest into agreeing with them.
I can't turn my back on all the awesome artists who stay here..... So until they leave, I'm staying to watch them. And I'm following them on their other sites, as much as I can. (Because that's almost a full-time job in itself.)
I've seen worse. :B But when I find a site with a better one or none at all: OUT TEH DOOR I GO!!!!!
After being here less than a year, it turns out there is a lot I'm locked out of merely because I'm 17... and 1/6. Yet anyone who's at least 18 can lock children completely out of their profile (despite them having clean work in their gallery), hide content, post whatever, go anywhere they feel, and so on. While I know there are child pornography laws which prohibit children from viewing porn, I can take a good guess that furry "porn" isn't really porn at all, because 1) a vast majority of the United States (as FA s located there) population would not be aroused by it (the legal definition of "pornography" is a provocative image which causes arousal; again, most would find it obscene rather than arousing and I'm pretty sure there are no furry judges as I write this :P), and 2) it typically does not contain human beings. By the logic of furry "porn" being actual pornography, books and videos on animal reproduction would also be pornographic- however that is not the case. I could go to Barnes and Noble at this very moment and pick up such a book if I'd like. While we as furries may view it as porn, the rest of the world views it as "vulgar."
Also, I believe the policy on viewing "mature" content is a bit overreaching also. At least when I was a member of deviantART, you only needed to be logged in to view most mature content (as long as it wasn't marked otherwise by the user who posted it). Their definition of mature content closely resembled FA's. Keep in mind they are a larger company than Fur Affinity (well, Ferrox Art...) currently is and must pay even closer attention to laws as they have an even higher risk of legal action being taken against them.
At least in my opinion, giving people the ability to lock out an entire group of people without good reason is a bit extreme; as that's an opinion, I'll keep it at that. It's not my job to change yours.
I try to keep an open mind, so if you're permitted to mention reasoning behind the policies I'd like to know as it would give me the other side of the story so to say. Like they say: there are 3 sides to s a story- one's, another's and the truth.
While I'm not saying unlock everything for the world to see, it would at least be appropriate (again, in my opinion) to have a requirement of being logged in, and if my logic can be proven, lower (but not eliminate) some sort of age requirement. I'd love to see FA grow and become a better place, however to me being here just feels a bit... degrading at the moment.
(Kudos if you read this far, I'm grateful that someone would read all that. ^^)
US pornography laws are a bit unclear in a lot of ways, but most definitely disabling access to the content by minors is a necessity. There are a ton of legal problems that could arise by enabling access to such content, so we are required to take a hard line rule on access by minors to adult content. It's important to remember that what you find on deviantART and Fur Affinity is very different.
Obviously the content rating system on Fur Affinity is meant to prevent minors from accessing content subject to those restrictions. It's very rare that someone would apply the filter to something that doesn't need it, as in most cases artists would (I'm sure) want to have their work open to the widest audience they can. I'd imagine that in a lot of those cases, it's a good faith tagging on the part of the artist, perhaps misunderstanding the specific requirements of each content filtering level. That's something we do want to address in the near future, in order to clear up some of the misconceptions of what needs each rating level.
So, as I said, the age restrictions in place are pretty much required under US state and federal law. Which is a bummer for you, I understand. We were all there when we were younger. On the bright side, you don't have a lot of time to wait.
How about 'child'? Any better?
Congrats on placing my comment in a really weird way FA
That was a reply to dis: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:38482465
For what it's worth, it's important not to take legal terminology personally. The powers that be are no more likely to honor your preference than they are to dispense with terms like "defendant," "resident," "licensee," or "spouse."
And I meant Kesteh, by the way.
You don't want to get me in a bad mood. I'll keep it at that.
Other than that I'm told I'm actually quite kind- at least when I'm in a good mood,
Yes because when you get really heiney holocausted I'm sure you'll RP out zapping with electricity or something as baby pikachus in a tantrum are sure to do. Or do some scathing drawing! Or something. Whatever floats your boat. I'M COLD GONNA GO WARM UP NOW HAVE A GOOD NIGHT. :D
I'd say it's you who has the problem if you think in the mindset of a computer, where everything you're told is good and dandy unless there's some obvious flaw with it. Since you're going to think like a computer, I mind as well talk to you like one (sorry my Python's a bit rusty):
int age = 17;
bool humanBeing;
bool needsDiscrimination;
if age < 18:
humanBeing = True;
needsDiscrimantion = False;
All I get from this is that you're in a typical rebellious youth stage, and being all anti-government THE MAN KICKS US, MAN. You'll grow out of it hopefully. Maybe once you can finally view FA porn.
And I'm not saying I'm like a persecuted Jew, I'm trying to make the point that there is still corruption in the modern world and here in the US is no exception.
And yeah you lost the moment you brought up Godwin's Law with this bullshit. Especially calling it 'corruption' that you're a minor at 17. Yeah, you're so past done here that you should be sent back to the kitchen. There's no saving you. Someone call the time of death on this kid.
Someone call the time of death on this kid.
Nothing new from what I've had said to me on dA.
You know I COULD report you for saying that. You're lucky that I don't, mainly because I'm the kind of person who doesn't like to see others be hurt because I know the way it feels.
Despite that fact, though, I forgive you for what you've said to me. You grew up in a different era with a different mindset. I'm going to accept views which oppose my own, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to disagree. If you wonder why I keep this going, it's because other furs keep responding. :B I respond when talked to- almost always.
Nobody in their right mind would take that as a death threat. Do you have any idea what calling the time of death means? It's when a person dies and they call the time of death for the records. So your argument, having died, now needs the time of death called.
Then again you're not in any sort of right mind, so there we go.
But yeah, good luck with your current attitude. I'm sure it'll take you far. As for me, to Dynasty Warriors! Though if Zhuge Liang knew what China would become, I don't think he would have bothered so much.
If you're under 18, you're a minor.
For example: Until mid-October, I was 17, thus considered a minor in the USA (which this site is built on) and my home country. However I turned 18 on the 18th and im now considered a legal 'adult'.
Just because you find something offensive doesn't mean some of us don't find it hilarious.
Because you are a minor (under the age of 18) You cannot legally smoke, not until the age of 18. You cannot drink until the age of 21. There is no real reason for this but it works. You cannot rent a card til you're 25. So technically, you are not a adult until 25, since thats when people really start to trust you. We call you a minor because thats what you are to the law. You "can" do these things if you like, but doing them as a minor will put others, who should know better in harms way. Do you want FA to go offline because the admins of the site let minors (anyone under the age of 18) to look at porn? Do you want your parents to go to jail because they let you drink before the legal age of 21?
Here's the difference between me and you. You drive without a License, you get a slap of the wrist and a phone call to your parents or legal guardians (because you still have that benefit). If I draw without a License, I get thrown in jail (only God knows for how long), I lose my car, my job, my home and because I'm a black male in America, this will more then likely twice as worse.
Even though the law will fuck me over in many different ways, I live by them and hope they work. They work for us and as a civilization, the laws work to provide a guideline to life. You may not like it but you are not the only minor in the universe. With age comes responsibility. You are 17, dont grow up so fast.
We are trying to help you but you have to want it.
The point we're trying to make to you is there are rules and regulations in place to help protect minors. You must know that America is a majority Christian nation so most of our laws are based on their God book and are imposed on us. Most of these are understandable but for a company or small web owners, a person like you would be considered a wench in the machine, as your actions could shut them down because you feel there's some injustice against you. If you want to look at porn, then do it. I think its harmless and healthy for you to explore your sexuality. Just remember that your actions can hurt those with good intentions if you get caught doing them while underage.
You just gotta learn to get some thick-skin for the internet. Since you consider a simple "no sir i do not like it" to trolling and I have no idea what you mean by 'power' because I got none lol
Look, I love FA - it's a brilliant resource, and I've met a helluva lot of people here that I really love. But as a functional product, it is so behind the competition. Don't get me wrong, it does the job, but it has a distinct tinge of 2004 to it.
Too bad i'm not that active on here now though for personal reasons :c
I hope everything gets better. :c
A shame because i actually did enjoy coming here up until recently.
I came to the website to learn about furry art and nurture my creativity with like minded people.
It's a shame because it makes me worried about my safety when interacting with the furry fandom now, but maybe that's a good thing. :(
On a serious note, No matter when you go people will cause drama. It's something people do. the only way to avoid drama is to avoid people. And, living the life of a hermit isn't ideal. Well, atleast it isn't for most.
Dragoneer's own girlfriend told him that Zaush had badgered her for sex. The fact that Dragoneer, as site owner, condones Zaush's behavior by offering him this job is another compelling reason for me to leave this site.
From a moral, business, and security standpoint, hiring Zaush is a disaster.
I would strongly recommend against it, and frankly it makes me uncomfortable having this comment next to mine. I've had violent revenge fantasies, sure, but there's a damn good reason for courts and trials. Where crimes like those Adam is suspected of committing are involved, I vastly prefer to transform our present culture of leniency, denial, and shaming into one where the allegations are treated with the same respect, gravity, and objectivity as complaints of assault, robbery, or kidnapping.
And I think what's more disturbing, is that even if Zaush didn't rape/molest/etc. Ferality, what about the 5 other women they named? This apparently isn't a one time issue (I say it like this because I haven't seen anyone else come out with stuff like this)
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:38184206
http://imageshack.com/a/img827/17/5eyl.jpg
It would be like if my friend was accused of multiple shopliftings, and I said "Well, my girlfriend said he also tried to steal from her. However, he's totally not a thief." Now, assuming if this is true, my girlfriend is now involved in trying to cover for a person who tried to steal from her, just because he's my friend and it could hurt me and my rep if he gets into trouble. If it's false, then I lied about both of them no reason.
a) No idea who it was
b) I knew that if it was drama of the type the FA message was rather vaguely alluding to but rather obviously deliberately not admitting what they were talking about, then encyclopediadramatica would surely have an article on it, and my god it's a lot more comprehensible than a lot of the stuff here.
Seriously though, you don't give someone like that access to a largely social site. Cos that what this is, it's not e621 for random anonymous picture uploads, it's much more like hentai-foundry or well, FACEBOOK. And that means that putting someone with that kind of personality in charge of anything is a really really bad idea; you don't give Michael Jackson the the keys to an orphanage.
Trolling, contrary to widespread belief, isn't called "trolling" because people who do it are miserable harassing assholes who spread discomfort and woe like the creature Trolls. It's derived from the fishing term "trolling" because it's the act of placing the bait and letting the victim get themselves into the undesirable situation themselves. It's the psychological art of making a person destroy their own reputation through their own character flaws and actions; you simply provide the catalyst to start the reaction, or you spotlight such flaws for all to see. And subtlety is key; you've heard the expression "Trolling is an subtle art." The success of a trolling comes from the contrast of subtle stimuli to severe reaction. In the end, the victim is supposed to look much much worse by their reaction than the troll by his or her actions.
And that, children, is the internet lesson of the day.
Dragoneer owns the site. He doesn't give a fuck. He's going to do what he wants and try to cover it up neatly and hope everyone forgets about it.
Implying the dynamics of English grammar are simple.
You sir are the finest of trolls.
Here's to the SS dumbass, gents
Anybody around here named Jack? We can have them stand on the bow of this sinking boat with some random bimbo behind him.
PREPARE TO BE REFERRED TO WITH OBSCENITY.
GET READY FOR IT....
ALMOST....
DING!
You are a poop muncher.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5471025/
Sean: And so it is with a heavy heart that we say farewell to our good friend, Adam Wan. May he always be reme-
(People boo an hiss at each other from opposite sides of his grave. Throwing bad dragon dildos and that one sculpture he tried to sell that one time but it never did at each other.)
Sean: C'mon guys, that stuff happened sixty years ago. Have some respect!
(The crowds falls silent)
Sean: Thank you. Now, as I was say-
("so when are we going to get an update on project phoenix?")
I have spent days looking through this journal's comments (a bit at a time, due to this thing called "a life"), and towards the end, I had to start skimming comments as I watched the two sides of this argument blur together in a cacaphony of ill-quoted statistics and baseless accusations. I refuse to comment with a personal opinion on the main issue of this journal, as I've only heard what the furries (who had nothing to do with it) have to say, and as such, can't make a valid judgement, as there was a lot of namecalling, false statistics and idiotic labels being thrown around. (White Knighting? Really?)
I will however, say this; sexual offences are generally "ipso facto", in that the only witnesses are the victim, and the defendant. We can't expect the defendant to own up (If he/she did anything, that is!), so we have to rely on the victim's testimony. Unfortunately, I've not seen one post regarding that (I apologise if there is, but I got lazy with reading all of this one-sided rubbish), but many regarding what they, the users, who have no physical contact with the defendant or the victim, feel. I think everyone should stand back and review what little (valid) evidence there is, maybe two, or three more times, before coming to a well-reasoned judgement.
There, I've said it. That was brewing for too long, so I don't think anyone will care enough at this point to read this.
So, onto the other subject of the journal, this Project Phoenix.
I would personally not think any less of FA for "borrowing" other site's ideas, as I believe this site is stuck in the technological mire that is 2006. At this point, FA needs to do all it can to keep its prolific userbase. I refuse to "jump ship" as most artists I admire and enjoy the work of are based here, and where they have other accounts, there's barely any art there. As such, I want to see FA improve. Drastically. (Hopefully, many others do as well.)
For example, I saw someone come up with the brilliant idea of journal previews like from dA. I wholeheartedly support this, as I'm tired of reading a journal title labelled "Important" only to see it's something I couldn't care less about. (No, I do not want to trade my Greninja for your Clefairy, etc. etc.)
Also, the idea of folders to organise an art gallery is a brilliant one, and I understand the coding team is working on it. Thank you in advance.
But most importantly, throw out the existing site's code. I could compare it to a rusted-out car at the local scrapyard; It'll be fun to fix up with pride, and an accomplishment, but it's so much easier, for everyone, to just get a new car altogether.
A visual overhaul isn't a massive issue with me, I've grown used to the basic design, but one thing that must change in terms of visuals is the comment system. I can't tell you how much this journal epitomises the issue. People are constantly getting lost in comments, and so am I. A threaded comment system like on dA would be a great improvement!
That's my two cents. I apologise if I've offended anyone (Which, this being the internet, I've no doubt done).
That might be your experience but in my experience I get more notifications from my watchlist on Weasyl now and I'm following less artists there than here.
We're still working on alleviating wait times, if that's what you're referring to. Just let me know if you're referring to any technical issues though, thanks!
My concern has been for some time, admin conduct, site fairness, and the idea that there have been now multiple dings to FA's image that seemed redirected or poorly addressed. I myself actually left for a time and came back only because the majority of my audience is still here. What I think many of us would really like to know is, specifically, what is changing? What can we expect with regard to the problems that have arisen, (I.E. Good members leaving in disgust because of certain treatments, attitudes and perceptions of how things were handled in various situations,)? And as far as the site itself, what will be done to actually compete with newer more modern sites that have emplemented more stream lining and better bells and whistles to make the user experience more customizable and fun?
I actually am eager to see what changes really actually happen and senserely hope that some of them at least, serve to clean up FA's somewhat damaged image. I don't hate this site, but it seems to have taken turns away from the community and towards corruption over the last couple years. Here's hoping that changes.
Cheers and good luck on all the revamps.
Bring in the real law instead of relying on "community gang law".
I'll make my point once more then shut my trap.
Some of us don't care about the drama. Who you hire is not really a concern to some of us. What people like me WOULD like to see is some technology updates. Update teasers have come and gone so many times that I personally start thinking of The Boy Who Cried Wolf every time updating the site is mentioned now. If this new teaser does come through, you will undubitably keep a good chunk of the current user base and add more fans as well. As is, the site is old, out-dated, and just plain ugly. Seeing the same two lay outs for soooo long has many of us feeling bored and behind the times. Weasyl is attractive for its stylish look and fancy new features.
How can FA expect to compete with such old programming and shoddy security? Heck, we can't go two weeks without maintenance shut downs. No wonder the nice new website is taking all your business. The scandal is just a good excuse to leave.
Pretty much... the site needs an update. A REAL update, not an imaginary teaser. If the site isn't brought up to current standard quickly, people will continue to leave and they'll use the scandal as an excuse. Shape up or ship out, FA staff.
It should be if they are relying on those same people to provide that update they want. It's fine if you want to separate yourself from a site community related concern, but it is the staff's responsibility to deal with this issue that you have the liberty of avoiding. So far, their reaction has been abysmal and has probably taken away substantial effort that could have been spent on Project Phoenix's development.
I do see what you mean though. I guess what I really mean to say is that I couldn't care less about the drama etc. There are other people to do that for me (like 99% of the fandom). Soooo.... I'd much rather just see updates. If they ignore the drama AND give the site an overhaul, that'd be peachy keen for me.
Typing at 5 in the morning is not my strong suit.
Hopping off the Neer dicksucking train right now tbh.
Well you see, FA is Neer dicksucking the Tank Engine and Dragoneer is Sir Topham Hatt.
primaryonly qualification for office is being Neer's SO? Thus staff were forbidden to handle things like trouble tickets until she either lectured them about the obvious, or decided she didn't feel like it and told them not to bother. I'm sure that was great for the backlog.at this point it doesn't even fucking matter whether or not the rape occurred, but how far people are willing to express themselves against any arguments and accusations of the crime, or support of the victim. this throws benefit of the doubt immediately towards the perpetrator, regardless of any testiment to the contrast. similar to racist moderates pulling the "don't pull the race card" card in response to poc bringing up racism
and as far as site upgrades: fa's been around for how long, and those still around convince themselves it'll ever get better? whether it will or will not, these announcements have proven to be shells hosting indirect responses to ridiculous bs, with nothing much in regards to site upgrades coming to fruition. we got that bar at the top and some ad rearrangements, i guess
you may as well be upfront, dragoneer (and friends), these games are tiresome and irritating at best; some of us really want to be here, you know
i wonder how busy you are trying to crack down on zaush-offenders when verbal harassment towards those who voice their concerns goes seemingly unchecked
Thanks. :)
http://adainitiative.org/2013/08/co.....source/#stages
It seems as a community FA is still roughly on stage 2.
IF it's all surrounding these rape allegations then that's not fair to him. I understand (as a victim of rape who had to deal with her attacker for years after) it's hard for people to be around him that he may have hurt, but it's not for us to be involved in until it is proven weather he did or didn't do it I don't see why this is even a discussion of his VOLUNTEERING or not.
Thank you for being one of the few to actually use your brain and have lagit reasons to dislike the guy other than..."he may have done something wrong"
I'm not the only one with a ghost message problem.
Nice.
Speculation.
But seriously. xD
Forgive me for being skeptical. I'll believe it when it happens in 2009... err... 2011. No wait...
Watching the people in charge of this place address user concerns is like watching YG address the release of 2NE1s second album.
It's gonna take 2 years, a lot of BS press talk, and tryna start a war with another company/site to get shit done and even then it still might not happen XD.
i had a good laugh, i can't find it online tho :/
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5522858/
Also GJ for removing Bazeel as an admin, it's not like he worked with users to solve problems and banned scammers or anything :|
keep on sucking FA.
Could you give me more information about the spam issue? I can check on that situation and get back to you. :)
unless you've done that.