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Fur Affinity Forums Re-Opened & Banner Update
9 years ago
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Journal Start
The FA Forums have officially re-opened, and have been migrated a new platform (XenForo). We've also taken the time to revamp and clean up the forums, and have added quite a few plug-ins to help give additional functionality beyond XF's standard feature set.
http://forums.furaffinity.net
The classic banner was done by
artdecade.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1241193/
NOTE: For those who haven't used the forums previously you will need to create a new account to access them.
EDIT:We're looking into an issue with the https version of the forums. Should be resolved. Was an issue with Cloudflare, not the forums.
http://forums.furaffinity.net
The classic banner was done by
artdecade.http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1241193/
NOTE: For those who haven't used the forums previously you will need to create a new account to access them.
EDIT:
dildos.
*runs*
I get that people consider it their right to be random but getting upset at staff when they try to maintain some semblance of order just seems petty.
Expect the site to remain stagnant with only minuscule changes happening here and there ... maybe even more ads as time goes by.
But 'Neer knew what he was doing when he sold us out (or was blinded by corporate promises and a decent check), and we get to deal with the consequences.
You should get it, if you haven't gotten it already.
What browser do you use?
сука блять!
Getting a 522 error when clicking on the link
"The webpage at http://forums.furaffinity.net/ has resulted in too many redirects. Clearing your cookies for this site or allowing third-party cookies may fix the problem. If not, it is possibly a server configuration issue and not a problem with your computer."
also, people were having issue specifically to https. you should relax
When do we get a new page banner?
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...../#post-5438544
Viva la Revilucion!
which I guess goes along with the overall way the site is run lol
Being referred to as "Other" makes me feel inferior. :(
Go to chrome://net-internals and select "HSTS" from the drop down. Enter forums.furaffinity.net under Delete domain and press the Delete button.
Go to chrome://net-internals and select "HSTS" from the drop down. Enter forums.furaffinity.net under Delete domain and press the Delete button.
... so basically it was like every other forum on the internet.
I disagree!
*Speeds away!*
In otherwords the drama that made it get taken down.
You know just as well as I do that's not true. Please knock it off.
Just be aware that refusing to avoid slurs and similarly offensive language violates our Code of Conduct, and may result in administrative action if you don't heed the caution I gave you.
i dont mean to really rant at you in particular, im just really sick of people calling real issues with this site "drama". it does nothing but demean real problems into this dumb, perceived pissing contest where no one "wins" :(
thats why i have such a problem with others saying its just drama and to ignore it. i understand that there are some people that either dont have the time, or even the thought to look it up, and i feel saying the issue is just drama leads to misinformation, or apathy from the community
we can explain what happened, lol.
I'll give it an hour or two an try again.
Fingers incoming-!
EDIT: Also, might I enquire as to why they have separate log ins and don't share the same one?
I have no qualms with the NDA or with the staff itself, but I disliked how it was handled after things with a fellow forum moderator went south. A lot of us were still under the assumption of an NDA (Yes, I have signed an NDA without handing my ID before), but it turned into a huge mess that left a very bitter taste in our mouths.
I totally get that the situation at the time was a bit of a mess, and I don't fault anyone for stepping down. It was a volunteer gig and you were fully in your rights to say "I don't want to do this anymore". I can honestly say (and I think you know me enough to know I do not do lies) that resigning has not put anyone in my bad books. I'm grateful for the time you guys gave to the site and the community.
I logged in yesterday as you were preparing things. It's an old account from the old board, the username is CaptainCool.
Oh... yes. And forums.furaffinity.net isn't loading at all for me.
Let's see how well it does this time!
The forums works fine. I found the trick up top -- chrome://net-internals/#hsts , enter "forums.furaffinity.net" in delete section and hit delete button -- worked for me.
Unlike the Autumn one. It lasted really long on fa, I must say.
(Speaking of which, I'd love to make a banner for fa once!)
I just made a comment mentioning how I think a new banner contest would be a fun diversion.
''This webpage has a redirect loop''
Go to chrome://net-internals and select "HSTS" from the drop down. Enter forums.furaffinity.net under Delete domain and press the Delete button.
I try to recover but the CAPTCHA is missing so I can't send recovery.
My user is TheKC.
Just to confirm, are you talking about the CAPTCHA error or the problems reaching the site?
"This web page has a redirect loop
ERR_TOO_MANY_REDIRECTS
ReloadHide details
The web page at https://forums.furaffinity.net/ has resulted in too many redirects. Clearing your cookies for this site or allowing third-party cookies may fix the problem. If not, it is possibly a server configuration issue and not a problem with your computer.
Learn more about this problem."
Not a guarantee, but seems to work for at least some of the users having issues with Chrome.
Go to chrome://net-internals and select "HSTS" from the drop down. Enter forums.furaffinity.net under Delete domain and press the Delete button.
Well y'all just completely proved this is a completely false statement. Can you please point me to the specific user agreement and code of conduct policies that warranted deletion of my comments?
I wish I could find the original thread in the Wayback Machine archives but it's not there. not the original one at least. and any of the other resulting backlash is also lost because the forums were reset to before the dissolution of the staff and so forth
that's kind of the gist of what happened. I left before the forums actually got shut down but was there for most of the fallout
All hail imgur.
Nobody uses forums in 2016...
It got me by surprise and I thought I had to re-log in, just to have a fake error screen and then I noticed the different url, had to change my password :T
The site is "dxwomen" and has a bizarre dot extension at the end, I don't want to put the link here for security reasons nor give the full site name either because I can totally see the admins here being more than happy to use that as an excuse to ban me.
as far as i was able to find out, seems like they have hosting (or something similar) with "poney telecom", or "as12876". googling them seems to bring up quiet a lot of reports of spam and server attacks coming from that host, and the ip address that cloudflare is blocking is used by them.
all in all, it looks like cloudflare has taken care of the problem, but im afraid that stuff like this will keep happening in the future, keep an eye out!
just for curiosities sake, do you happen to remember exactly how you got to it, or when and where you were signed out?
(sorry for the wall of text, looking into this kind of stuff is really fun for me hahaha)
I remember hearing from friends of a site like taht existing, but I stumbled upon it when I tried to see if a user, don't remember which, had other accounts in art galleries under the same username. I clicked on a link to his profile instead of clicking "back", saw I was not logged in thinking I timed out, and tried to log in which lead me to a fake error screen so... yeah, thank goodness my distrust of this site's security saved me from that other shady site x3
Go to chrome://net-internals and select "HSTS" from the drop down. Enter forums.furaffinity.net under Delete domain and press the Delete button.
Firefox users should theoretically be able to do the following:
History>Show All History
Right click the Fur Affinity Forums listing
Click "Forget About This Site"
They may need to do a hard refresh or clear their cache afterward as well.
Can't test it as nobody on staff is having the issue on Firefox.
Go to chrome://net-internals and select "HSTS" from the drop down. Enter forums.furaffinity.net under Delete domain and press the Delete button.
Here's something I've wondered...why would I get like only 20 faves for something on FA, but over 700 faves on the same submission on twitter? Shouldn't it be the other way around? It seems FA is being replaced somewhat by Twitter.
Please keep posting it. Or at least spread awareness of it.
Was really interesting to read! I got to glimpse it when I refreshed and was scrolling down.
There is a time gap between them removing it and people seeing it that is important :)
Thank you for letting me see it.
As such, please do not encourage other users to do so.
It did not target or harass or abuse anything. Simply was just informative like a pamphlet.
I enjoyed reading it. It is up to them to post it i they want to. They don't need to post it here.
I suppose it seems that I was referencing for them to post here. I wasn't really meaning here.
I get the terms of service and how appalling that is to post anything like that here.
Of course, I wouldn't recommend it. I'd like them to be safe and still stay afloat here.
If they so wish it- of course.
I'm just glad they like to keep people informed! It's very noble.
Is there anything wrong with giving them a pat on the back?
The person underneath me wrote "Where is this in the terms of service?"
Why not just answer where it is for them rather than remove it.
Totally not nice. It'd be great to know where it was actually written in there for him.
Keep him informed. Don't just shut him out. That doesn't look good at all!
Why was the content removed if it did not link to staff conversations?
What was so wrong with Renashe's final journal that you have to keep removing it?
'Your' Term of Service is not imune to the outside world and its laws. If I wanted to I could get a lawyer and fight against what you consider terms of service, claiming you violated those terms of service when questions and comments are hidden or cencorsed without a reason given to them. Therefor the 'law' would rule over the terms of service and decide cencorship, which is technically against the law, cannot be allowed to silence questions or hide thoughts that are 'undesirable'. Open discussion would solve 'your' problem more than surpressing voices that you disagree with. You don't ban someone and win the argument, you lose the argument if you don't ask to be challenged by a different argument. You proved yourself wrong to everyone but yourself!
Can someone use a "young/lack of knowlege" wording for me....?
I have a hard time with reading comprehension, so I kinda need some dumbed down instruction on this one.
THANKS TO THOSE WHO TELL ME!
Prepare thyselves, for the hellhole has reopened. Those that speaketh against the law shall be silenced and sent to banishment
Such has been and always will be
They lost the ability to care about such things a long time ago.
'how shitty do you think this looks on you guys that a lot of comments are hidden?'
It's possible we might be able to help you recover your forum account if we can verify it's yours - file a Trouble Ticket and we'll look into it.
http://2static.fjcdn.com/movies/Dan.....0c_5837868.mp4
You're basically delaying a meltdown, and I'm not sure if you've noticed it or not, but you're slowly losing people who are willing to just accept the generic excuses. With all the information available on image boards, twitter, imgur... Plus the steadily increasing amount of disenfranchised individuals (staff, mods, unpaid coders, etc) starting to speak up, you cannot afford to continue sticking your head in the sand and pretending there isn't a problem.
It all makes sense now...
I'm not sorry
I miss the colorful fall banner, even tho it's not fall anymore lol
It is so flat and lifeless, no personality to it. It's just...there. Nothing more.
Kinda sad when an art site's main banner is that uncreative
If it's been some time since your account was banned, it's possible you may be able to appeal your ban, depending on the circumstances surrounding it.
We're continuing to look into accessibility issues.
Is what I get
ftfy
Not like I ever expect anything impressive out of this site or its staff anymore though.
They spend this keystroke budget on copy-pasting trouble ticket responses, and writing "here's this week's downtime report" journals.
This is why:
* They don't bother explaining bans or deleted comments,
* It's taking them so long to make "FA 2.0", which is pretty much just a stylesheet.
* They were forced to give up on monthly banners
* It took fourteen years to summon forth a new Xenforo instance
* They supposedly have significant trouble finding the time to pay developers
Or maybe have a process that people can go through to submit banners they design to you voluntarily? (other than just Noting/Emailing Neer)
E.g. I click the link (forums.furaffinity.net) and I get an HTTP 301 redirect to ... forums.furaffinity.net, which (non surprisingly) HTTP 301 redirects to forums.furaffinity.net, which in turn redirects to....
ATTENTION EVERYBODY ON FURAFFINITY!I HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT TO MAKE!I......are very gay.Like... really, super, fucking gay.That is all.cub?
oh shit this comment is a week old what
https://malwaretips.com/blogs/wajam-virus-removal/
i personally would recommend the anti-virus i use, ESET. not too expensive and it doesnt constantly nag you to scan your computer. plus i used to work for ESET, and if my word is good enough on the internet, it is a very well run company that actually cares about its customers.
if you dont want to pay for an anti-virus, then i would suggest avast. i havent used them in a while so im not sure how well it works, but its better than nothing.
just a suggestion!
Still a blank page, using Fire Fox.
2. Cencorship used wrongly, even with rules that the site follows by the admins, can be taken to the highest courts and backfire on you worst than 100/1000/10000 users leaving permanently. Know about the streisand Effect?
Anyone know of a program that will let me track like three emails at once. ~_~
M O N K E Y
B U T T S
http://www.furaffinity.net/themes/c.....er-general.png
"You all wanted transparency, well here it is!"
Give me a reason to take you to court!
lol thats actually kinda humorous XD
just a little touch of smartass in a rather clever pun!
And thank you for all your hard work.
Misdeeds are often hidden by staff and TTs are left open for months because Neer would rather play ESO than do the job he is getting paid to do. It's his job to get the backlog settled, deal with Yak's refusal to let people work on code, and find people who could help with the site. But it doesn't get done. FA:U attendence is dropping. People seem to be moving to twitter.
Just because someone disagrees with the site's direction doesn't make them a troll.
So I guess I should just give up and be quiet.
http://forums.furaffinity.net/members/
And, even then, those aforementioned members are only listed as "notable" merely for the quantity of their postings, not quality. Thus, those who criticized the hugbox of the fandom while hypocritically using their forums as a hugbox for themselves, will not be unseated from the title of lead speed shitposters anytime soon. For anyone with a life outside of an Internet forum, with interesting and thoughtful input to bring to the table, could easily post sanely over an entire lifetime (2-3 times a week), and never come close to the post count of the previous forum shitmeisters who squelched dialog on any deep topic while belching out their verbal feces of chatter and gossip an average of over 14 times a day over an entire decade.
Sadly, it's current ambiguous title of "Notable Members" leaves the misguided impression of authority and respect.
*not calling staff by names
*not being overly rude
*not breaking a single rule
*ergo this message shouldn't be deleted, but guaranteed someone will make up a rule on the spot, it's been happening
Sorry did that analogy go to far? I meant to say the actual Furaffinity website is still shit. I'll try keep it simple next time.
. Threading
. Still
. Broken?
. Yes.
Chrome works.
nothing like a fiddly little bug that refuses to act the same everywhere!
reminds me of my old sound driver error. only affected some sites sometimes on some days o_o
damn thing kept moving!
I'm using the same version and it hasn't misbehaved for me, so it seems to be a pretty nefarious issue. We're still working on tracking it down and seeing what we can do to fix it on our end.
Many thanks
I got myself banned from the FA Forums years ago, but even if I hadn't I wouldn't go back. I'm not fond of visiting insane asylums.
I only go there when I need to know why FA is down since if anything changes in my browsing habits I am lost and pathetic XD
which is weird because as far as I can tell, there's nothing that actually uses Flash on the site
calm down guys! there's nothing to freak out on yet! Give them a chance to actually do something worth flipping out on! lol
You'll get your chance!
Instructions for account deletion can be found here.
I don't want my old account and contributions to be used on the highly curated, new forums, tbh. I'd rather the entire thing was completely removed without a trace, if at all possible.
Asking things to be removed "without a trace" is never going to happen.
I'd like you to hear me out on this blatant issue with your site, and your staff as a whole. So please do not remove this comment.
In my time on FurAffinity, I have had good relationships with the staff. They have responded to my tickets whenever I had trouble, and they did it rather fast. But I am noticing a HUGE problem with the transparency with the community and the staff. You never gave a reason as to why one of my favorite artists,
I'm also shocked at the censorship of others that you are doing. If you censor criticism, it will only lead to the Streisand Effect, and more criticism on all of the staff will follow. I'd like Neer to make a journal addressing all of the community's concerns, because we deserve better. Let the comments about why the forums left stay, an informed community is better than a misinformed one.
Also Neer, if you are reading this, I'd just like to say my personal opinions about you. I think that you are unfairly targeted and ridiculed, you actually seem like a nice person. But your track record and the concerns of the community can be too much for a couple of people to handle. I just don't think that you are the right person to run FurAffinity anymore.
Also, glad to see a new banner...but that was made 7 years ago! Why do something that old? It should focus on something new, just sayin.
If the Staff and Neer read this, I thank you for reading this.
- We cannot discuss administrative action taken against a user with third parties; this would violate their privacy. Therefore, we never give public reasons for suspensions, and we cannot make exceptions because someone is popular or has a particular history. Similarly, we can't discuss relations between Fur Affinity and individual staff members, past or present.
- I'll acknowledge that not all features that have been proposed are implemented. We did get folders last year, which I know many users were waiting for, and our new UI may not be completely finished, but work is well enough underway that it's been implemented and released as an option. Development is ongoing, and while I can't speak for whether all the features listed on WikiFur are likely to get added, some are to the best of my knowledge slated for coding time.
- Unfortunately moderation of newspost comments often comes down to "should we enforce policy and let people cry censorship?" It's not much fun from our end, either, and we'd love it if we didn't have to. There are plenty of comments left that cover similar topics as the hidden comments, but which managed to do so without violating policy. We have no issue with those comments. As a rule of thumb, being hostile and accusatory is not a good way of securing a response from staff, and is more likely to result in hiding than a comment that remains civil throughout.
- The resignation of former forum staff has already been addressed months ago. There is no reason to bring it up again, as that situation remains the same now as it was then.
-I can understand that first point. You are absolutely right with it, but it was kind of unjust if you ask me. I felt that she was only recounting her experience with staff, but I guess that goes against the ToS.
-I'd be glad to see all of the stuff promised to the community. The UI,which i did try when it first came out actually is kinda nice, though the mobile interface needs some work. Folders were nice, but the big complaint about it was the delay in announcement and updates from the Fender account in giving the announcement. They suddenly came up, with only an announcement afterwards. The delay in updates was a big criticism from me, but overall they work fine.
-I agree with your third point. Being hostile and accusatory like: "YOU GUYS ARE DOING NOTHING!!!! FIX IT NAO!", will not be appreciated. I can understand the difficulty of your decision on this, it must be difficult to try and enforce site policy while trying to not censor others.
-Understandable. At least you guys addressed it.
My understanding (I'm a cane-waggling stick in the mud who still uses classic, and who doesn't mind the way classic looks on mobile devices anyway. That and I'm holding out for a "light" option for Beta ) is that mobile beta has been improved a lot since it was initially launched, and it continues being worked on as testing on different devices reveals areas that still need adjustment.
IIRC (it's been a while, after all) the delayed announcement was basically a result of different people being involved in "flipping the switch" and posting the journal proper. We tried to get them out fairly close together, but yes, ideally the time gap between the two should have been smaller. It's one of those inherent difficulties when you're working with a highly active site and have staff across multiple time zones. Hoping to do better on that front in the future, though, as we totally understand it's confusing and frustrating to suddenly have new features popping up in your face with no explanation.
I also want to stress that users who feel their comments were hidden (or any other administrative action was taken against them) in error, always have the option of filing a ticket under "Dispute Administrative Action" to either appeal the decision or get a more in-depth explanation of why action was taken in their particular case.
You may not be able to, but the staff members that leave, NDA or not, aren't keeping quiet about it like they are supposed to. Like the example that was given of the former staff member who never got paid due to the issue with the contract. He went and made a youtube video outing the site for it and everything. The full story of the work that was done and the e-mails between the members involved were discussed, including IMVUs statement that he technically never worked for them.
When stuff like that starts popping up and the staff stays silent or plays the "we cant talk about it" card, it sounds like you are sweeping it under the rug and hoping it just goes away.
Perhaps the NDA policy needs some reworking? As bad as it is, when you refuse to talk about it but the people who left are refusing to STOP talking about it, it really feels to a lot of people like staff is doing nothing to either address the issue or fix the damage caused :/
Either staff would need to be more open about the issue and explain what was done to resolve it without worrying so much about the dont ask dont tell style of policy, or the broke guy begging for money and calling staff out for screwing him over (in his opinion) would need to be legally silenced once and for all. I may not agree with it, but technically he IS discussing the back room politics even after saying he was not allowed to.
That's just me trying to see both sides here thou. I can tell it's a hard model to work with and enforce with any kind of success. I just think maybe you guys need to have a sit down and rework some of your inner staff policies a smidge to better help those who have come in trying to help the site. Way too many are leaving with horror stories and chips the size of a small country on their shoulders. A few I could see. Every business has their whiners. But this many start talking and one can't help but feel like something might be broken.
Kinda hope one day to see the FA staff settle in with a team that is both functional and helpful. This site has such potential!
This is what FA does. They don't respond to things like that, and anyone that comments on it gets banned and their posts deleted.
Just like I'll probably get slapped and this post deleted just for stating this, even though it is factual accounts of history.
It's their site and they can do what ever they want to with it, and they don't have to answer to no one, or explain their actions to anyone.
A most sincere apology from the people that was part of all the problems would be the first best thing to do. And then to fix the problems, you would be in a much better situation than you are in at the moment.
If you don't want to apologize then can I ask why you appear to not care of what the community sometimes calls out on. Some call out in a vulgar, strong way, others try to appeal to you as humans, but is it adressed to the people who care about it?
The power of the user on this site has lowered quite a lot but that doesn't mean that one wrong step will have the same reaction as it has had before. You want to admin over a 'controlled' and nearly empty community? Then you don't have a community, but a unpaid staff that don't know they have become the staff of their site.
Where?
Generally when we respond in newsposts saying something has been addressed, it'll be in a past Fender journal, unless otherwise specified. Just as a tip, so you don't have to wait for me to grab the link for you.
I'll still give it a shot and wait till it gathers steam though, but here's hope to new beginnings.
However doesn't seem to let me change my icon. :/
All people want is more transparency, less egos, and less "hush hush". People are upset that the staff continues to deny things about past events.
Honestly, I think there are too many egos and too much brown nosing of said egos on this site. Staff, popufurs, everyone. People thing FAF was toxic? Take a look at FA. The culyure here needs to change. It's so easy. Just get along, shake hands, and stop trying to backstab each other like high school popular girls. I would like to see someday FA and former staff resolve their issues. That would be the best for the furry community.
It would also not be possible for us to view a private conversation that both parties wanted to keep private - we can view comments, obviously (which wouldn't be private in the first place), or we can view notes that are linked to us by the sender or recipient, and only if they grant us permission to do so (that's what the tickybox in the ticket interface is for). So that conversation would not come up in the first place, and IF somehow it did, the individual in question would not remain on staff, because that would be violating pretty much every internal policy we have (hyperbole - I've not actually run down the list - but it's definitely not something that would be tolerated).
Basically no system, I will stress, can PREVENT people from doing things, if having access to the information/tools that they abuse in order to do those things is a prerequisite to doing their job. The law can't prevent a police officer from wrongfully arresting someone, since being able to arrest people is part of his job, or using their service revolver to shoot their neighbor's dog because they don't like their neighbor, since the service revolver is one of their work tools. All we can do is take swift action should abuse be reported, and this will be the same regardless of what site you decide to use.
Also the fact that YOU as a staff member aren't able to easily recite the list of the conditions of what you can and can not do as a member of staff is rather concerning, since at any time you might breech it, but never be pulled up because your fellow members of staff aren't familiar with it either, and because the user base generally feels we can't trust you (after all an individual was hired who was known to have stolen personal data on the user base of a website, and only isn't employed not because members of staff reviewed them gaining their position as inappropriate but because they choose to step down) we aren't likely to report it. And you have just confirmed that if the member of staff that's breached the terms of their employment is the one that reviewed the Trouble Ticket (the only method of reporting said member of staff) then they could easily cover it up. Which BTW even though the police can't be stopped from false arresting someone there are systems in place that help hold them accountable that aren't managed by the member of officer that performed the act of falsely arresting someone, which helps prevent a cover up. In the UK, we have an independent investigator into the affairs of the police which operates even when there aren't any big cover ups to help ensure they do their job properly. If IMVU isn't providing a similar service to ensure you all do as you're supposed to then I question their business practices, and raises dire concerns about all the staff of FA's capability to actually do their job. A concern that would have easily been dismissed if you weren't owned by a company like IMVU.
With all that in mind you've started to worry me because all it takes is one little mistake on a member of staff part with one particular type of user and something terrible could happen. Heck it might of already happened and a member of staff (or ex member of staff since people tend to hold a grudge). A situation where your actual lives are in danger. It's a very concerning thought since so far staff are displaying a very dismissive attitude when it comes to people's concerns. You might not be able to discuss things in full because of certain legal issues that could arise if you do (such as violating someone's personal data) but you can at least address the issues in a general sense. Because every member of staff hasn't and still aren't willing to and instead just hide comments they deem a threat (since some of those hidden actually haven't broken the Terms of Service we as users agreed to. Meaning soem members of staff are in fact trying to cover things up, meaning I'm well within my rights to ask that IMVU be contacted by Dragoneer and instigate a full investigation, or else you'll force us all to keep dangerously close tabs on you all, and when you make one tiny mistake escalate it to a full blown court case, instead of giving you all the chance to deal with it yourselves.
So if now for our sake then for you own safety can you stop with the violent hiding of comments and actually address some of these issues people are bringing up in a general sense (no names need to be mentioned), even if you only do so through a private note towards the users brining the topic up, that goes soem small way into helping assure users you aren't all power mad over running a website on the internet...which if any staff members are actually power mad over something so small a trivial...they might need an intervention. Such things can be dangerous for ones mental health.
Also I understand that this comment definitely dangles on the edge of breaking the ToS so if you wish to hide it I'm okay with that, but could you at least alleviate my concerns in some way, or you'll just end up making me one of those users that'll jump ship the moment the artists do and in essence leave you all to slowly watch FA turn into a shop for IMVU, since that's what they could end up doing if FA loses too many users and becomes more of a financial loss than a financial gain for them.
Thank you.
I'm sorry if I was unclear; I was on a computer with a ton of idiosyncracies at the time, from which I cannot easily pull up our staff handbook. All I meant was that I did not go down the list checking each item against your hypothetical situation, but it's a situation that would constitute obvious, unacceptable abuse. I'm quite aware of what rights and obligations I have as staff, and where to go for clarification if at any time I'm uncertain about a specific situation. So are all other members of staff. Not being able to recite policy verbatim off the top of one's head has very little relation to one's ability to follow it - I'm pretty sure you know that shoplifting is illegal without necessarily knowing how it's defined or worded in law or penal code.
Our basic orgaizational structure is visible on the staff page - each Administrator overlooks the Moderators working within their primary area of responsibility (any given Moderator may work on multiple types of issues, in which case I would be their immediate superior when they work Code of Conduct issues, and AsiaNeko would be in that position for AUP tickets), and the Staff Leads are above the moderators. This is basically the same structure as we had before the site was sold to IMVU, and escalation of issues follow the same path now as it did then.
Comments have been hidden based on compliance with site policy. I'm not going to go further into reasons than that; I'm well aware that we cannot un-publish anything from the Internet, and we don't control what people do outside of FA, but that does not obligate us to permit violating content to remain visible. Given that, I'm afraid we cannot change comment hiding routines. Also, to be clear, what staff member hides a comment is logged, so if the comment hiding pattern were to show signs of abuse, that would be immediately visible to other members of staff.
If a poster feels their comment was hidden in error, they are welcome to dispute the decision. What we do not permit is reposting of removed content without express permission, as that does violate Terms of Service. Overall I am attempting to answer concerns to the extent that I am able, as long as the people bringing them up do so in a respectful manner.
You're not in danger of breeching ToS or other policies with your comment; I understand wanting more information and I absolutely apologize if my initial response caused you further worry rather than alleviating your concerns.
That is in truth what I would expect, that you'd have it easily accessible, not that you'd memorize the whole thing (though if anyone did I'd yip my hat to them).
Ah that's helpful, though it begs the question what if the Team Leaders are the ones abusing their position, who do people under them turn to? What if they can't turn to anyone in FA staff, would IMVU intervene or would we be left with power mad leaders?
I believe the only issue people actually have about comment hiding is that it's written too loosely. Like If I said I like pancakes, with enough effort one could find a way to interpret it as a breach of the ToS, which is ludicrous, but the loose wording of the ToS concerning the matter makes it hard to know whether you're all being fair or not. This I believe is the prime issue with most users. The rules that are in place are open to a level of exploitation. Because of this and what people have felt was incompetence and blatant abuse of power by certain staff members, this laos makes people feel that reporting something isn't worth the effort because people feel you're all in cahoots with one another and would sooner cover for one another than actually follow through on doing the right thing and following certain rules by the book. This natural feeling that has blossomed in the userbase means that its more than likely abuse has been happening unintentionally by staff members but users don't report it because they don't think anything will change, since as a previously mentioned the only examples of staff being dismissed are those who provide evidence that FA was in the wrong or those who choose to step down...which means so far the evidence that the staff aren't corrupt is stacked against all of you. This means one of two things, that you're either trying to lead people like me on and are fully aware of the corruption among the staff and just don't care, or whoever is managing the public announcements is really bad at their job and needs a lot of improvement, which I believe there are classes for improving the skills required to do so, meaning the issue might be resolved by attending one. Might be soemthign to investigate at least.
There's also the issue of transparency...how can we trust all of you to be transparent when you don't even put your real names on your account? Not one staff member has given us any indication of their real identity, on their main pages. How can you ask us to trust any of you, when you clearly don't trust any of us?
While your comment doens't alleviate my worries for the danger members of staff might be putting themselves in when not handing a situation in the best possible way, it's good to know you're at least trying to.
Should there be an issue with one of the Staff Leads, it would primarily be addressed by another Staff Lead. Push comes to shove, I suppose the buck stops with Dragoneer (which doesn't mean we can't argue our cases with him; we do discuss judgment calls that could have wider implications internally). You'll have the same thing happening anywhere else, though; ultimately, someone will be the biggest chicken in the coop. If the site hadn't been sold to IMVU, Dragoneer would have been at the top and making final calls, as well. It's your choice whether to believe me, of course, but I personally am not seeing, and have not seen, any signs of power tripping from anyone on staff.
I would tend to disagree that rules are written too loosely, overall. I understand that anyone whose comments have been hidden by staff would rather we hadn't done so - otherwise chances are they wouldn't have posted the comment in the first place. I understand that people may be posting what they do out of the best of intentions. They wouldn't be the first people who violate site rules with their heart in the right place. This is exactly why I am stressing that the correct response if one feels action has been taken in error is to file a dispute ticket. One of two things will happen: either a staff member will explain in more detail why action was taken, or they will tell you "sorry, looks like we were wrong, we'll restore your comment/you may repost your content and we'll amend your history to reflect this".
Writing rules that cover every eventuality is... maybe possible in theory. This is why law texts come in books several inches thick, and many countries still largely depend on past legal cases to determine how these texts should be interpreted. This presents a conundrum for web sites; we want rules that are clear and easy to understand, but we also need users to actually read those rules. Let's face it, how many people read the "Terms and Conditions" that new software presents to us when it's installed? Too much text, can't be bothered. So we're stuck trying to strike a balance. It's a neverending job.
The best thing you, as users, can do, if you feel a rule is too open to interpretation, is let us know what rule, and how. If you have an idea of how it could be made clearer, by all means include that. I can't guarantee we'll take the suggestion, but we'll consider it.
I'll accept that there's an impression among portions of the userbase that staff are acting against their best interests, as you assert. I can wish it weren't so, but people are free to form their own opinions, and while I may not like it, some of those opinions are going to be negative. It comes with the territory. I also accept (though again, I may not like it) that some of the narratives out there from people previously associated with FA are going to paint the site and its staff in a poor light, and that our internal policies (NDA, prior and current staff's privacy, etc) severely limit our ability to counter or respond to claims made. And that, unfortunately, if any action is taken against someone who has criticized the site, regardless of why that action is taken, someone, somewhere, is going to assume malice.
I care about the userbase. If I didn't, I'd have resigned long ago. I assume, since you've commented in multiple places on this newspost, that you've seen some of what gets said about staff; the only reasons I put up with it are that 1) I know it's not true and 2) as long as I remain on staff, I'm in a position to help people who go through the proper channels. If I thought the organization was corrupt, I'd be out.
I could put my legal name on my account. It's already on my personal website and my webcomic site. Honestly, I think knowing the name(s) I've used online for the last 15+ years is going to do you more good than knowing the name that only family and legalities use. One is going to let you follow my identity, the other is going to let you find crap posted online by me and at least one (maybe more) other individual, one whom I have very little in common with. I know Neer's legal name gets brought up relatively frequently. Would it make you feel more trusted if I listed my name on my account? Because I can do that. I mean it. It's not there because I'm happy being called by "quoting_mungo", not because I consider it a secret, but if it affects the level of trust you feel you can have in staff, I'll gladly reconsider. (In the interest of full disclosure, that could change when I take my husband's surname; it's something he would have final say in since at that point it would no longer be just about my privacy, but also his.)
I guess this all is a lot of words to basically say "I can't force you or anyone else to believe me". I can try to answer questions to the extent I am able (whether limited by my own knowledge or what information I'm able to disclose), and if the answers satisfy you, great. But ultimately believing what I say is your own choice.
So at what point would IMVU intervene exactly? What kind of action would need to occur for them to get involved because if such actions occurred people might feel more comfortable knowing when IMVU will take the matter into their own hands and deal with the issue themselves. If there isn't a point where they'll intervene and fix that hypothetical issue then it begs the question what was the point of the sale? If it's simply funding then why even ask us for donations before the sale, when selling it was actually underconsideration? Because while some protest the sale to IMVU most would much rather know that if the everything goes too far they'll step in, sack all the guilty parties and place new staff that will not commit the hypothetical act. For example, soem users have found that even though they requested their data not to be used on the forums and wished it all deleted, their data is still present. Something we were all promised before the Forums were brought back, and I can't be certain but that may fall under soem form of illegal misconduct, which might result in a court case for both the use of ones data when permission to do so was taken away, and possibly false advertisement, or something similar...I can't be sure, but I know as of the forums relaunch FA has committed a crime, at least concerning the use of personal data in a way that breaches the very privacy issue you've mentioned several times as the reason you can't go into details. Which makes you appear corrupt because FA has breached the very explanation you use for the lack of detailed information, on say ex-staff members.
Why not simply pay a legal firm to write it for you, or ask IMVU to do so, since a ToS for both the user base and the staff is a legal contract that we all agree to, and as such is in their best interest to ensure it's done properly so as to avoid soem sort f legal battle that could damage their public reputation, and depending on the severity could lead to them having their assets frozen and facing a full legal investigation themselves?
Section 1.2 of the ToS states "Fur Affinity reserves the right to enforce these terms via content removal (submissions, journals, comments, etc), account suspension, and account termination at the discretion of its staff." the part about "at the discretion of staff" leaves this open for abuse by members of staff, who might wish to censor any arguments made that they personally disagree with such as if a staff member had a homophobic view point and decided to try and remove content they deemed offensive based on their own personal tastes rather than a factual analysis of whether the image, animation or written piece actually violates the ToS, removing it even if the piece in question is entirely appropriate. Based on your past points about how you can't guarantee that a member of staff doens't covertly try to cover misconduct on their part if it was reported via the Trouble Ticket system, then that also means it's entirely possible for the member of staff to then cover up any misconduct they've committed that a user might try to voice via comments on a journal such as this one, which will leave users feeling that all the staff are corrupt and attempting to cover that corruption up, which results in them no longer attempting to utilize the proper channels and instead joining the growing number of people speaking out against what they view as FA's corruption.
Besides my suggestion of getting a legal firm to write the ToS to cover every detail and possibility, I have one other suggesting that requires some level of effort on the programming team where all hidden comments are permanently viewable by staff by that they are shown to have been hidden by a staff member, the page owner or commenter themselves. This would mean that should a member of staff attempt to cover up declarations of their misconduct or are falsely hiding comments, non-abusive and non-corrupt members of staff will be made fully aware of the situation and if the users don't feel comfortable using the proper channels the staff can begin the process themselves.
Impressions stem from something and it's very likely that the source of their issues has never actually been dealt with. The first example of such that springs to mind involves the employment of Scriggles even though Dragoneer publicly stated he wouldn't give his wife a position on the site at all. There is also the fact that at one time he said she'd have no actual influence on the site and yet soon after a point she voiced her opinion on a particular subject, the site changed its policy to match her opinion. These instances while not exactly concrete and possibly holding perfectly valid explanations (such as running FA becoming too difficult for Dragoneer to handle thus Scriggles offering to help, so as to ease her husbands stress, and possibly that FA had been considering the matter Scriggles had brought up for soem time and the moment where Dragoneers decision was implemented just happened to happen rather close to the time Scriggles mentioned her view on the matter) create the view that FA is corrupt entirely because people feel Dragoneer himself has displayed actions of abuse of power and corruption, such as the aforementioned staff member I brought up a previous comment that people were not happy about getting a position on the site yet instead of sacking them they instead choose to step down. While it can be poor judgement or desperation on his part, the continually inadequate actions lead to people feeling he's unsuited for his position and by default that all staff employed by him are automatically unsuited. So any negative comments directed at you, stem from the fact that people assume you aren't suitable for the job because they feel he isn't suited for his.
While I believe you do care about the user base the assertion that the things people are bringing up aren't true isn't in itself true. Many of the issues people have brought up are based on evidence people have provided them such as chat logs between them and certain members of staff. The fact that you believe that they aren't true when some of them clearly are, is a valid reason to assume that you are either corrupt or unsuited for your position. The instances with evidence to back them up give people reason to doubt the sites staff capabilities and trustworthiness. It's where the issues stem from and if you as a member of staff are just going to sate they aren't true then how can you expect anyone to trust any member of staff to deal with Trouble Tickets properly and not act in a corrupt manner? Which all in all leads me to worry about your own and the other staff members safety even more than I was doing before. Poor judgement is no reason for someone to hurt any of you, but i really do fear that eventually someone is going to just decide they need to get "revenge" on you all and might do something terrible.
Yes you real name would make me feel I could trust you more because it shows you're are being transparent as an individual towards the user base. And should you get married using your current surname when dealing with the fandom, even should you be present at conventions as a member of staff, would be perfectly fine in my book, because as you said, it would also be about protecting you husbands privacy (And in the interest of full disclosure from me...the P in my name stands for Peter).
I know, and I always try to be fair and open minded about issues that people bring u because I know how the rumour mill can spiral out of control....victim of false rumours spreading myself. Someone once said I kicked a cat, when I didn't...I wasn't even 10 years old yet, and it resulted in an old lady grabbing me by the ear and threatening to turn me into the police for something I didn't do. i only told my mother recently about the incident...I'm 23...it took over 10 years to tell my mother about a form of physical assault I received as a child...and now the women in question is long dead and buries...yet the rumour still pops up now and again. So trust me I know the rumour mill can pop out the most random of inaccurate pieces of information. And I do believe that you believe you are telling the truth...but ones truth doens't always match up with fact. When you hear certain groups say that homosexuality is a disease to them that is the truth, and it doens't always match up with fact. My point is that clearly something has gone wrong with FA at some point, something caused by a staff member and if the matter just keeps being dismissed and any attempt to bring attention to it is always silenced - weather it was right or wrong to do so being irrelevant - so long as it's being dismissed, people will never truly believe your intentions are pure until those matters are addressed properly towards the user base. Until then it's just an endless cycle of people getting angrier and angrier until something causes that boiling anger to go from harsh words to harsh action. Heck they might not even target FA but all of the staff (hence my worry) with it possibly resulting in someone getting obsessed and making it so if you forget to pay one parking ticket you end up serving a time in prison for it because they became hell bent on "fixing" FA. It's all rather concerning.
I can't answer much of any questions regarding FA's relations with IMVU; I don't interact directly with them, and from my point of view things changed very little with the sale. My job is the same after the sale as it was before.
Far as I am aware our Terms of Service have been reviewed by legal professionals. Making it any more "legalese" would likely only result in decrease the number of individuals who bother reading them, much less understand them. That would be the "why" of not completely outsourcing them with no input from staff, if I were to take a guess. If you look at e.g. dA's TOS they also specify "discretion"; Facebook seems to lean towards using "believe" (ie "if we believe...") instead, but at the end of the day, since human behavior is pretty much endlessly variable, some measure of discretion is going to factor into enforcement of any terms. TOS 1.2 specifies that certain actions may be taken in order to enforce terms. Your example would violate at the very least the spirit of COC 1.8, and so any staff member who got into their head to do something like that, they would be subject to disciplinary action as soon as it was caught - and chances are it would be caught sooner rather than later.
I told you we can't PREVENT abuse because I want to be honest with you. Any site that claims to be able to completely prevent staff from abusing their moderation tools and/or making mistakes is a site I wouldn't trust, because chances are they're lying to you. That doesn't mean we can't catch it. We do reverse administrative action if it's found on review to be in error.
As a matter of fact, what you're suggesting regarding hidden comments sounds exactly like what we already have. If I hide a comment, it'll still show up to me (and other staff), but with a nice little "This comment has been deleted by the Administration, quoting_mungo. The original comment as follows:" at the top. I'm sorry for not explicitly making this clear; I was under the impression that us being able to view hidden comments was common knowledge at this point. My mistake.
I happen to have been a regular user who relatively frequently wrote reports, back when Sciggles was originally made staff. Her ticket responses were very professional, and I certainly had no complaints. Like many other users I questioned why Dragoneer had said she'd never be staff, but all I wanted was a reason for... let's call it closure. In my eyes she proved herself by her actions then, and the heat she received was undeserved. (This, note, was all well before I was on staff, and I know I told people I was satisfied with her performance even before I was brought on, just to be clear that this isn't bias or afterconstruction.) I honestly can't place the policy change you're referring to, but as a wild guess I'd say a more likely explanation, barring any legal or similar reasoning, would be that FA was Dragoneer's site, he had final say in policy, and, well... I know my husband and I agree on most matters, most of the time. Doesn't mean I influenced him or he influenced me, just something that happens a lot with compatible people.
I can't get into history or privileged information surrounding particular staff members, but I will say that I am confident Dragoneer has only acted with the best of intentions in regards to the site and its community, every time he's taken someone on as staff. He would never, ever, take on a staff member who he thought had ill intentions. He is not without flaws, and he'd be the first to admit that, but he does nothing if not care for this community.
Please note that there can be a difference between a statement being true and being the truth. Let's say that Mr. Smith, an obese middle-aged gentleman with a family history of heart disease, has decided to get healthier. So he eats an apple. As chance would have it, he has a heart attack and sags to the floor. You could sum this event up as "Man collapses from heart attack after eating an apple", and it would be true. It would, however, not really reflect the truth, as the truth is the apple had sod-all to do with his cardiac condition, it was just shoddy timing, but combining the two in a single sentence implies that there was a causal relation between the two. All I have said is that there are narratives that cast an unfair shadow on FA - I am confident of this because I have seen more of the situations being narrated than have been presented to the public. I really can't say more than that some of what is being said is misleading at best; I'm not going to point to any one individual, or any one claim.
I've had people attempt to badly tarnish my reputation because of my administrative duties here. That is exactly why we have chosen to make our moderators anonymous - they have individual moderation accounts, so internally we can still connect actions to staff members, but it protects them from potential malicious actions from people who don't like the site.
I am in no way trying to deny that things have gone wrong in the past. Promises were made that the site was unable to deliver on, is the big one, and what I believe to be the major initial source of malcontent. Was it inadvisable to promise folders multiple years ago? In hindsight, yes. Have there been instances where site security was compromised? Yes, and that's highly unfortunate. Things go wrong, we learn from them, and try to look forward. I don't think there's anything else we CAN do.
I guess we'll always be stuck with the possibility of shadiness in legal contracts because that's how the lawyers like them...seriously though I understand...it's just because it's not worded in an ironclad manner and it's open for abuse coupled with the mistakes of the past made by FA...distrust is clearly going to bloom.
There is one way to prevent abuse...replace all of you with robots...but I think people would be more annoyed by that than anything else so I wouldn't advise it...
I'm sure it's common knowledge among some close knit group of users but I don't really have a social group I mingle with in the FA community so I wouldn't be aware of such things since I have no-one on here that could actually tell me.
I think Scriggles employment still raises questions more so because of IMVU's purchase of FA since people will presume that means FA gets regular funding which would make people question why he'd keep her (and anyone that's been a part of any drama) on staff when it would be much more preferred by the user base that she be replaced by someone who isn't in some sort of relationship with Dragoneer as they feel she will be able to influence his decisions, even if she doens't try to do so at all. It's not unreasonable to ask why she's still got a position and wasn't replaced by someone who isn't going to stir up more issues simply by working here. After all would you stay on as a staff member if your employment was causing more damage to FA's relationship with its user base then good? One ex-staff member already left because of the damage their drama was doing to FA, so why haven't all the staff members that seem to cause such stirs done so? I understand they care about the community, but their presence as staff might be doing irreparable damage to FA, regardless of how much good work they do. I harbor ho ill-will towards Scriggles but when it comes to Public Relations FA is by far the worst...it might even be worse than EA...and that's just...horrifying...
Concerning the policy I've eluded to (intentionally because I believe it could be a breech of the ToS or COC to discuss so publicly like this so, I'm intentionally avoiding the details). I'm actually under the impression that its just bad timing on everyone's part, Scriggles could have waited till after FA's new policy was up for a few weeks before stating her opinion on the matter or Dragoneer could have waited a month or two after Scriggles had posted her comment, and the issue would never have been relevant. plus I believe based on the wording of the ToS that it's down to the possible legal issues that might pop up concerning it...there's a few things on here even now that could get FA into trouble legally speaking so any level of control you can use to minimize the danger is understandable, no matter how many people might oppose the decision. Now if you had so much money you all wiped your butts with $100 notes...then I'm be having a go at you all for being cheap and not caring about the community at all...since that's not the case, I personally harbour no real feelings on the issue. I only mentioned it because the accusation has popped up more than once and hasn't really been dealt with well.
I'm sure Dragoneer has tried to act in FA's best interest...but so far it seems his personal issues in life have affected his ability to do so. With IMVU acquisition and financial support some of those issues should no longer affect the workings of FA, its just the remaining issues that remain a problem. For example how many people on staff are Dragoneer's friends? If they were part of FA's founding then they have no real place being in their positions since IMVU's became its new owners, because now that it has stable financial backing there's no logical reason (as far as the community is concerned) to get help from friends and family. At least as far as the user base is concerned.
Might i suggest that when these issues arrive, if possible FA staff actually try dealing with it offsite? By just leaving these disgruntled people to simmer its just making things worse they need to be handled in a none malicious way by staff that explain and counter issues brought up by people such as ex-staff members. One guy had accused the coding of FA to be a mess, and described yak in a non-flattering way. If you can't talk about it here then at the very least can some of you ty dealing with it where they've brought it up (in this case a YouTube video).
Would I be correct in assuming that's why no staff uses their real names then? That the threatening behaviour might escalate? If so then that's completely understandable...as long as your real names and the position you all hold is logged in some record held by IMVU...for legal purposes. Can you confirm or deny this? or aren't you in the loop about that? if not then why not, since that's your personal data they're handling? They might sell the data to some phone company one day and you all get calls offering stuff you neither want nor need.
I don't think there's anything anyone can do other than try to figure out a way to deal with the issues that doens't result in a yelling match about how corrupt the staff are. Its more about how things are handled. Like when you hide someone's comment, do they get a message explaining why, and how prompt is that message? If more staff is needed simply to explain to people why they've had their comments hidden or their submissions taken down or their accounts suspended or banned then that goes a long way to help matters. If this already happens, great, but I'm assuming you'd need more staff to simply meet the demand of sending those messages or a new tool added that will allow you to select why you've done any of the actions I've mentioned that will send an automated message that quotes the ToS and COC. I know coding that isn't so simple but it should be added to the list of what to add to make all of your jobs easier.
Regardless can I just say thank you for the clarifications, you've been very helpful, forthcoming with facts and have displayed considerable integrity and you deserve the utmost respect for just doing the best job you can. So again, thank you.
Replacing us with robots would more or less eliminate the risk of moderation tools being abused, I suppose. It'd just replace it with making the poor site vulnerable to anyone with the time/patience to figure out how to trick the robot into accepting whatever trolly posts they felt like making.
If you're referring to the staff member I think you are, there was more that went into their resignation than their effect on FA's reputation. In general, finding and retaining good staff is not as easy as it would seem at a glance, and people who are good for one task may not be good for others (I am absolutely worthless at art theft issues, and I readily admit that - as a result, I don't work with them in 99% of cases). We've lost some people that were doing a great job and making a huge difference, for a variety of mundane reasons, aside from the staff resignations that "everyone" knows about. Losing anyone currently on "named" staff would be a significant blow and have a noticeable impact on things like ticket handling times, and might actually take quite some time to recover from, depending on exactly who. Even "just" losing one of our moderators would definitely be felt. I understand your reasoning, but having seen the work that gets done by each of our staff members, turnover is the last thing I would wish for.
To be clear, while FA receives some funding, most of staff are still volunteers working for free; FA's budget is modest and needs to cover things like hardware and any software licenses that might be needed (e.g. the license for XenForo and any plugins we install for the forum). (I have no idea about the exact numbers and probably couldn't share them if I did, but it's not flashy.) So the acquisition has little if any bearing on what staff we're able to bring on - it's still a volunteer gig.
I understand your reasoning when it comes to addressing these issues off-site, though I don't believe (unfortunately!) the issues ultimately would get resolved by doing so. Staff policy-wise, when I speak about FA, even if it's on Twitter or Youtube or Tumblr or some other service, I'm still representing the site, and I need to assume whatever I say is going to get screencapped, linked, etc. I will say, though, that the FA code we inherited was a mess not really suited for the scope FA eventually grew to, and while I believe work has been done to improve it especially over the past year or so, I don't doubt "a mess" describes it fairly well. This is something we've admitted to in the past, too, and one contributing reason to why some features have taken longer to implement than they might seem like they should.
I'm not going to speak for other staff members' choices; ultimately it's their personal choice whether they wish to associate their legal name with their FA account. I hadn't done so because I felt my fandom name was more relevant and practically everything I've done online in at least the last ~10-15 years or so can be found under or in association with that name. I'm not entirely certain whether it's Dragoneer or IMVU that physically holds our NDA's, but IMVU would definitely have access to that information should they need it. That would include at least my legal name, address, date of birth, and personal identity number - I can't offhand recall what other information I would have supplied at the time. They can't legally sell that data, and even if they did, I doubt they'd find a buyer.
In most cases, yes, a message is sent explaining what was hidden, and why. This message is sent manually, so how long it takes to receive it may vary depending on the complexity of the issue currently being handled (comment hiding/content removal is essentially finished before the message is sent off). As sending the message also involves formally citing the user for a policy violation, for very minor offenses or things we're giving people a pass on out of courtesy, we may in some cases forego sending this note.
I'm glad I can be of help! Communication with users is something that I saw a need to improve when I originally applied to join staff, so I want to contribute to it where and as I can.
That was never clarified. Declaration of an organizations funding is not legally bound to secrecy, and the decision to do so for FA is a stupid one. And no, posting it on social media is not good enough because some of us don't utilize services like Twitter or Facebook, so even if they're being displayed there, such info should be displayed on site as well. Maybe once a month? The only legal reason not to declare funds is if IMVU has ordered FA not to, and if so that's too much intervention from the user bases point of view, and needs to be remedied.
You're right on this matter but I do believe some sort of off-site intervention by staff if handled correctly, would help lessen the damage such declarations create. And concerning the code, I think I speak for everyone that if we were kept up to date regularly, both on FA and on social media we'd be fine if no new features were introduced as long as we were regularly informed of how things are going. At least that's how I feel. I'd say its worth asking the user base what they think on the matter.
People wanting to sell stuff to people will always buy others contact details....that's just a given, if its illegal they won't but if there's a legal way to do it they will. But it's good to know that if one wished to pursue legal action the request for details would go through IMVU, and not through FA.
Also good to know. If possible I'd suggest that a tool for admins be added that will generate automated messages where when an admin say hides a comment they have to cite a reason from a list based version of the ToS or the COC. I know it's not done easily but soemthign to add to the list to ease the weight on staff, and possibly make less users jump to conclusions if they don't get contacted right away.
I'm glad to hear it. Communication is still very much broken on FA. For example a lot of the questions I've asked and points I've made should in fact be common knowledge, that's easily accessible to the user base, but it isn't. I had to ask. Just adding a page where it details the powers that staff have and the power that users have to combat abuse by staff in detail would go a long way in helping FA deal with a lot of his aggression, since it means you have a readily accessible piece of information that means any user that isn't willing to read it is just ignorant and not worth anyone's time.
The fact that our staff primarily consists of volunteers has been public for a very long time, to the point of being specifically mentioned in site policy (see COC 1.5). There are factors that prevent some portions of FA's expenses from being published, which have nothing to do with IMVU, and that has previously been a major factor in not keeping public books. I don't know that this would have changed with the sale of the site.
I was more referring to the fact that my personal details, specifically, would be of little or no value to an US company. It was mostly an attempt at levity, but my sense of humor can be a little dry sometimes. (Besides I'd just politely listen to the sales rep and let them run up a nasty int'l phone bill, because that's what I do.)
I absolutely see the point you're making - I don't know offhand what might be involved code-wise and it'd probably fall fairly low on the priority list, but it's probably worth considering.
You'll be glad to hear we're actively working on a way to make more "good to know" information accessible to users. I can't say how soon we might be able to release it, but it should make things easier for both users and staff.
I'd like to add that multiple staff members do tickets, so if one came in reporting a specific staff member it would be seen by multiple staff members anyway. If a report came in about me, I would not be the one to handle your ticket. It would be handled by another member of staff.
but thank you for letting me know!
I am glad that FA, as a whole is still a place we can all come to enjoy some art and community.
I care absolutely nothing about past "drama" - it means nothing to me.
I just want my option to not have to choke down "art" from the "people" I add to my block list. I want the "people" I choose to block to be invisible to me, as they deserve to be. That is the one and only thing I can say I want here.
while I would suggest to fully jump ship, I can see why people would (somehow) still stay here, all that I ask is that you make the conscious effort to broaden your horizons, keeping all of your eggs in one basket will only end badly for you.
the better alternatives are https://www.weasyl.com/ with the help of http://exodushelper.com/ and https://goo.gl/fLQWwr (weasyl crossposter) then you have https://beta.furrynetwork.com/ with it’s own import tools, you literally cannot say “well it’s too much effort to copy my shit over” it’s mostly done for you.
“this drama doesn’t affect me”
it does and you are wrong, FA is actively silencing public outcry over its actions, guarantee 90% of the hidden admin messages were messages to better knowledge yourself of what’s occurring, while I cannot link anything here, a quick google search would yield several sources.
“but [ARTIST] is here and I don't want to leave”
then basically copy and paste this message to them, since it’s the sad reality of what’s going on, and kindly nudge them to start cross posting, yes it would be more work for them, but they get the assurance that a single website can’t kill their business, and they’d get more exposure while doing it, it’s a win-win.
“I am an artist and my fanbase is here”
as above, take the effort to broaden your horizons, it’s a win-win especially when FA does eventually come to a close and your business along with it, you have zero excuse to expand.
for those that don’t heed this warning, the signs are there, the site is killing itself, if you insist on staying here and only here when the end of days come, you’ve only got yourself to blame, you’ve been warned several times on FA by users who were permanently silenced for doing so and on social media
http://i.imgur.com/7EXJNpH.png
clearing cookies did not help
The website is loaded over the https protocole and the css stylesheet and javascript file over the http protocole and all browser don't allow loading http stuff in a https request
So without the css file the website like an old one without any template and style
And without any js file some part will be unusuable
They probably forget a option or need to edit the code for fixing that
hope it gets fixed soon D:
Becasue this shit is fucked.
But I'm still confused by this and would like some transparency and clarification-I mean no hostility in this.
Someone was contracted to work on the site and helped work on an open source code for it, ending up doing a lot of work only to find out that their contract never went through. Okay. Someone messed up.
But then they realize they're being increasingly neglected, not being paid for their work, and decide to back out of it, as they can't really afford to be screwed over (and honestly, it shouldn't be happening in the first place)
Now, they take this open source code that they helped create, use it on their own project, and are now being threatened because what I assume to be someone forgetting something important, and it being registered as "not" open source. All of these problems seem to be connected to someone not doing their job. (or, from an outside view, abusing their power and taking advantage of someone)
So, some questions. Why is this happening, why are very important details when it comes to contracting people to work for you being neglected; things that were agreed upon and then never actually put into place, and everything being thrown out of order, people getting in trouble for things they shouldn't be getting in trouble for. Tell me how this is okay, and why it's continuing to happen.
Most of what you are asking pertains to relations between Fur Affinity and a former member of staff, which we cannot discuss for privacy reasons, so I'm afraid I can't give you a very satisfying answer to your concerns. As you have been very respectful in your comment I am permitting it to remain, but please be aware that the situation you are bringing up is not in line with newspost commenting guidelines ("2) Keep discussion on topic to the post at hand.").
1. Why were the forums closed down in the first place and why was this not addressed in this update?
2. Why were many threads shut down and deleted that vaguely criticized the treatment of FAF staff or FA management in general?
3. Why didn't you even bug test the forums before releasing them to the public again? According to most of these comments, the forums aren't even working correctly.
And let's be honest, the only reason those site rules at the top of the journal exist or were created is to quiten those who have legitimate concerns and won't pussyfoot around the issues. Those rules were created SPECIFICALLY because people have been more outspoken in recent years about FAs lack of professionalism and proper management.
2. I can't publicly discuss specific administrative actions as that would violate the privacy of the individuals involved. I will say that most threads created around the time of the forums' closure had a very poor signal-to-noise content ratio and/or largely kept a very hostile tone which is not something we welcome on the forums. Many other removed threads were simply sorely outdated - there's no reason to keep e.g. threads asking for clarifications regarding outdated versions of site policy.
3. Actually, we did test to make sure the forums were functioning before they were released to the public. The errors people are having are striking seemingly at random. I have the exact same Chrome version on at least one of my machines as at least one user reporting issues in the comments here, yet I had no issues accessing the forums. This also leads to troubleshooting the issues being more challenging than it otherwise might.
And no, that is not the reason those rules were added. The comment section was being derailed by off-topic and contentless posts, as you can see if you browse back through prior news posts. There have also been issues with users being hostile towards each other. All of this makes it more difficult for staff to monitor the comments and answer questions, and for users to find those answers.
2. how convenient
3. this is actually a legitimate answer
actually yea, before FA really started to go under fire, these vague rules were put in place. and given these rules, any off-hand comments should be hidden haha. It's super pick-and choosey what comments get deleted exactly. I don't think my comments were particularly rude or uncivil. Nor did it make it anymore difficult for users to find answers. they were passionate at most maybe, but hey, if you hide the bad stuff it will magically go away.
You can't speak about it, either. Or else it'll stay relevant!
Example: the chance to include options such as Blocked Keywords to prevent specific users from seeing artwork considered undesirable for them?, or perhaps even a Favored Keywords to highlight and priorize specific artwork pieces to be shown while browsing? ^u^
Keyword filtering is a planned future feature; however, backend limitations mean it's some time in the future yet: http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa.....hings.1526370/
There's a whole subforum on the forums for site suggestions. You can find it here: http://forums.furaffinity.net/forum.....e-suggestions/
You can also see a collection of past suggestions here: https://trello.com/b/SmYk47aD/fur-a.....ature-requests
So yes, in theory, you could probably cobble on a NOT LIKE call and call it a day. You might get a blacklist filter, but it might limp along like a snail with a twisted ankle.
Giving the coders time to restructure things to play nicely with however the blacklist filter is intended to work will result in a filter that works better and faster.
All based on my programming and web designer studies; this is all my best-guesses, and if the coders say something else, listen to them, not me. But cobbling features on without a solid foundations is generally not a good idea.
So to re-word the news, the forum is back but with a catchy "issue" where a 522 will redirect you in circles. Fun... I wonder who configures your webserver? You should just have two outgoing entries for HTTP and HTTPS. CF should be smart enough to just put the requests through. Otherwise just purge it's cache and let it rebuild.
And we got a new banner?
... where? o.o
And the server 522 issue was fixed already.
And they fixed 522? Hm, because I got one just now when I tried. o.o
And I can access the forums just fine.
Tested it on chrome and it works there, too.
They have roots into it far too deep.
But really - If people made import tools - and im SURE that would be in the other sites BEST interest when they hear what shits gone off here...
I can see alot more making the jump.
Becuase this ship has been sinking for years.
going to quote myself from earlier
"the better alternatives are https://www.weasyl.com/ with the help of http://exodushelper.com/ and https://goo.gl/fLQWwr (weasyl crossposter) then you have https://beta.furrynetwork.com/ with it’s own import tools"
I did see exodushelper; but not the other two.
Thanks :3
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
all the critique was already there before IMVU took over, but nothing happened
Seriously, please
Prove the community wrong. We'd love to hear the real story and not just a "here's a link, go read our biased and faulty story yourself."
I have already explained why no further statements are being made. Dismissing prior statements they do not fit your preferred narrative will not change that.
My comment was in direct reply to that, with how most of the deleted/hidden by administration comments on this journal ARE filled with that "misinformation" that you label them as.
Links to screenshots, journals and feedback from current/former members and staff, everything that has been posted that is verifiable and factual is being claimed as false and malicious. Since the definition of "misinformation" is "false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive.", it would seem that this is nothing more then hiding comments to the truth, which means that whomever is hiding them is engaging in cloak and dagger tactics to keep the actual facts from getting out.
Just because you believe it does not make information not misleading. There may also be other reasons for individual comments having been hidden, and as I have said multiple times on this journal we do not discuss the reasons why content was hidden/removed publicly or with third parties.
I know why most of my comments were removed on this journal. It's because -I- posted things that need to be hidden.
"Please notice that the Flayrah article you were attempting to link collects content that violates Fur Affinity's policies." That came to me in a note from a Moderator after posting the link.
Said article revealed everything that led to the forums being removed last year. Verifiable screenshots/testimony/chat logs. Everything. Nothing fake about it.
However it has been removed time and time again. There are countless other screenshots of comments on here that have been removed for posting the same Flayrah link, or posting Renashe's Reddit post that gave her public feedback about being staff. The SAME post that when they put it on their FA journal page, she was banned for it.
Of course, both the link and the Reddit post were shown to have negative things towards FA and staff, so OF COURSE it's removed. There are a good number of other posts here in this journal that violate ToS or CoC, but they seem to survive.
So as I said, if you want to talk about "spreading misinformation" then all you have to do is a look at the Administrators actions in what they've been hiding from the community.
It's been said on Twitter COUNTLESS times that "Dragoneer and other Furaffinity staff are more than welcome to debate their side of things, as mentioned, they are entitled to their side."
Instead those who debate the "facts" as they are presented are silenced.
So again, if you want to talk about "spreading misinformation" then look at everything that's been hidden.
Please re-read the section of Code of Conduct I've quoted below, especially the italicized portion.
Code of Conduct, Section 1.2 - Do not post or phish for anyone's personal information.
Personal information includes social security numbers, unlisted contact information, home addresses, credit card numbers, and personal correspondence (logs, emails, notes, etc).
I am not going to argue with you over your choice to believe some people over others. Nothing I can say is likely to change your mind, and even if I did get cleared to share any privileged information, I don't hold high hopes you would believe me unless it corroborated the narrative you've already mistakenly designated as fact.
I mean, that should be something easy enough to clarify in public without having to go to private channels.
Plus look at it this way! Public clarification means the users will be able to better understand things and hopefully lead to less issues in the future. :)
what bothers me even more so though is all this hand waving that keeps going on in this journal regarding the rules. why not cite the actual rules these journal break if it's the reason why they're being taken down instead of saying "it might not violate the rule I just cited to justify my actions, but it violates some rule that I'm not going to tell you" and leaving it at that? it's pretty dubious and for most people that's not an acceptable answer.
Hope you screenshotted that, by the way.
If what you take away from what I said is "it might not violate the rule I just cited to justify my actions, but it violates some rule that I'm not going to tell you", I can only assume that you're not quite following the shifting context. All I did was point out that posting logs, which was brought up specifically, without the consent of all parties involved, is cited specifically in our policy as a form of disclosure of private/personal information that we do not permit. What actions I have or have not taken as an Administrator have nothing to do with the statement - it'd have been the same basic statement if there wasn't a single hidden comment on the journal and someone brought up the idea of linking illicitly shared chat logs.
In this case, Renashe's journal has been put on Reddit so it's a public place and they have given permission publicly to repost it.
That's what we're trying to figure out Mungo, that's what we're asking and that's the question that has been avoided constantly. Asking for clarification on the ToS/CoC isin't discussing administrative action because no action has been taken.
And if clarification cannot be given then there is NO reason at all that it should be removed, as to me and the rest of the user base there's no violation of the established rules.
And see, here's the thing about misinformation. If you don't disprove its legitimacy, it still holds credibility. It doesn't matter how many times FA throws prissy hissy baby fits screaming NO IT INNIT TRUE while pounding on the floor like a spoiled brat who got caught for drawing on mommy's walls with sharpies, unless the site can show proof against the insurmountable information against it, FA is still going to get a serious ass whooping in the end from the community and its mama.
(For your information, my parents have been married longer than I've been alive. )
And incase this is removed im uploading it to imgr. Twitter and facebook. Postimg dropbox googledrive my email and a file server in sweeden.
The furry fandom is a volitile culture of supply and demand/ merchant gathering. There is no profit to be made outside of google ads and traffic. The profit is 90% self.kept from merchants.
Yeah i dont get it. For a site that promoted doing what you want.
Until they dropped cub
Sure has a heavy hand in censorship.
Furaffinity: Chinese Media Edition.
its borderline children desensitized because they have erections or do adult things but in reality thats just skirting the grey laws.
Right now you are toeing the line. Please don't cross it.
It would not be fair to users who take pains to follow site rules to do anything else.
Regarding the banner, well...
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...../#post-5438544
You're welcome.
You took it down. Something that did not violate a single rule here. I want to know WHY.
If you have forgotten what link that would be, I would be more than happy to post it. We want answers, and clarity. We do not want to be silenced, due to the truth.
Continued censoring may as well bring about more trouble for this site, as less has caused exoduses in the past.
Quoting_Mungo: Asking in public comments is not going to yield an answer - policy prohibits staff from publicly discussing administrative action. Not all of us have access to the appeals email, so I can't do much about that, I'm afraid. Far as I can see you should have received basic information regarding what policies were violated, but you're welcome to file a dispute ticket if you missed that information or feel you need further clarification.
Well, when do I receive the ' Basic Information ' of the policies I've just broken? I've been given no notice, nor explanation. Or do I need to get down on my hands and knees to beg for one now?
As previously stated, your treatment of members is going to force another exodus at this rate. How many more do you think this site can handle?
I'm not sure where you're getting the "ignore ALL the comments" from, to be honest - there are lots of replies both from myself and other staff members. However, I can absolutely own that insulting/rude comments generally don't get a response from me beyond possibly a reminder to watch one's language.
#ShotsfiredI wish there was no "locking" on disable/enable account.
I accidentally disabled my page and I thought I could enable back in seconds..But I have to wait 72 hours..
Why's that there? I kinda liked without the 72 hours lock from before.
P.s I just realize theres a block button next to watch.
and that is a very good reason
and I agree x.x people might think I'm not coming back
I'm afraid to block someone for no reason just because I'm used to hit the last button.
I won't use it anyways.
Where was the option to block others previously?
Maybe have a yes or no option, or drop down and have block underneath instead?
Someone decided it was not already easy enough to block others?
It's likely to get moved soon, possibly along with other minor profile adjustments.
We are aware that the custom thumbnails are something that people would like to see a return of - so would we! It may require a bit of a revision of the thumbnail system, I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure it's on the to-do list for the future. In the meantime, at least when searching, I can only recommend making as ample use of the NOT operator (click the Help button on the Search page for instructions) to try to eliminate as much of the content you don't want to be seeing as possible.
And take your time on fixing stuff. I really do not have a problem with what other people like, and know I was sounding insensitive.
Thumbnails allow warnings and such, and allow more than one community to exist on one site.
Not going to push or be annoying about that though.
lol good one
It's just common sense really.
It's probably gonna keep on happening too because I memorized the buttons so I don't pay attention when I click +watch. Now it seems I'll have to adjust.
I mean - If you want to do it for yourself since well
reasons.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fi.....addon/stylish/
I'll be pissing off to furry network.
I Urge everyone to do the same.
i'm slowly in process of future migration as well--didn't take them long to drop the h-bomb here this time around. :/
For a lot; the move will be hard. But if we all putt in the effort - It will be easier for all of us!
i know slowest part of moving away for me is i have to keep tabs of my outstanding commissions here still til all done x-x"
Its the one with the dog skeleton with a empty dog dish & weeds growing everywhere
Yes, I've accidentally blocked people x3I'm going to start doing some drawing of my own soon, so feel free to swing by and say hi! x
Rightful or wrongful, it's just a whole pile of bitching and moaning...
Finally, it's not fall anymore!To add more space between each of these might be an good idea if no one else have an better idea to how to make it even better.
FA, or who is now in charge I think you need to do something about the 'Note' 'Watch' and the really new 'block' button. I know the 'block' button is at the same place as 'Stats' button. but you might wanna place a bit more space between them all, I have classic version and I have not pressed wrong yet but for those who have that is no good from what I can understand, I just hope I'm able to avoid this myself.
To add more space between each of these might be an good idea if no one else have an better idea to how to make it even better.
Large transparent images have a black backround in the preview and having transparent avatars would be amazing...
Edit: Oh and updating the beta ui would be great too. It makes no sense to add new features to the classic theme and do nothing with the beta. Classic now shows that you are open for commissions and art trades but beta doesn't. Same with Featured journals (i think), there is no indication that the journal is featured.
A new update to the beta is coming up - if you're curious Dragoneer's Twitter should have some previews.
Btw.: I like the new banner art.
Edit.: Well, I obviously can edit here but why not a comment on my own journal?
I'm not sure of what it would take and all, but what if for the site banner, you allow multiple people to submit their ideas. THEN, once they're approved, you have the banner cycle out at random each time a new page is opened?
Like I said, I'm not sure what kind of coding that would take, but it would keep the banner fresh and allow those who want to create one to do so. As much as I like seeing the banner and don't want to be 'one of those people', it really does get boring and drab after looking at the same one for months at a time.
The buyout was addressed to the community at large multiple times last year - the most relevant journal to your concern about content rights would probably be this one. You can always go back through past newsposts if you feel you may have missed an announcement, in general. That is also where you would find the history of the events that caused the forums to previously be brought offline.
Rumors will happen. We want to protect the privacy of our users, past and present, first and foremost, and this includes users who at some point may have served on staff. I understand how you're thinking when you suggest anonymization as an option for addressing situations, but just as we don't permit a user to create a journal about an issue they had with another member and just replacing that member's name with something else if their identity could be inferred from context, we would be violating our own policies if we released such statements about issues that have gotten the rumor mill churning.
That's great in theory but there are comments that have been hidden for simply containing "misinformation." This does not constitute hiding of the comments whatsoever. If they are misinformation, then FA Staff needs to come out and give their side of the story. Hiding comments because they speak out against the staff is abusive and 100% against the transparency that users have constantly been promised.
Do not misrepresent site policies or any actions staff have made.
Depending on severity, this may indeed be sufficient cause to motivate a comment being hidden.
I am answering questions to the extent I can without compromising the privacy of users, staff, or former staff, or otherwise overstepping what I can do within the confines of both staff and site policy.
2) You confuse "compromising the privacy of... former staff" with "talking about information that has already been made public by former staff."
You can say that you feel something shouldn't have been removed. You can question (though as it concerns another user's account you won't get any answers from staff) suspensions to your heart's content. You don't have to like staff actions, and you can protest, as long as you keep that protest civil.
Compromising the privacy of former staff is one of several concerns involved. As I mentioned, I am bound by multiple policies, and I'm not inclined to jeopardize my personal integrity by breaking agreements and commitments I've made to uphold and adhere to those policies.
Oh hey, I can copy-paste too... Should I apply for a moderator job now, or later?