Who gives a shit? I know I don't!

Nobody has ever been allowed to have a negative opinion of FA or its staff.

See, this is why I hate the kind of people who casually say things like "I'd complain, but I'd probably get banned for it," either as a joke or out of paranoia. This is the first time, to my knowledge, that this has ever happened for real, but people are liable to not care because they think it's already the norm.

I don't really like it, but I also can't exactly complain about something that is free to me. I don't own FA in any way shape or form. I wouldn't really care much if I did get banned. You have to really go all out to get perma banned.

Dragoneer has actually gone on record as saying he hates the "you can't complain because it's free" attitude some people have. The argument came down to "Just because something is free doesn't make it worthless."

I complained back when the "cub is allowed" ruling was made. It didn't get me banned, but it didn't get me much of anything else, either. I've seen maybe one or two of the artists I watched get banned over the past few years and it's never been for longer than about 2 weeks. You can't complain too loudly about a slap on the wrist. I'll bitch when it's a ruler on the knuckles.

Oh it has with the irc channel at least

Oh. tsawolf.

That pretty much explains everything.

Never should have been a mod. Ever.

Seconded, he seems to have a hand in every drama-splosion lately.

Including El-Koze and her stalker.

Their site (or Dragoneer's, anyway), their rules.

Really? Always seems pretty consistently fair to me. Usually the ones that whine and constantly break the ToS/AUP/SA believe the rules are altered just to harass them.

You don't check 'neer's Twitter very often, do you?

No, but like I said, the only ones whining are the ones that get in trouble.

2 scandals come to mind:

Clayton and Chewfox


Also, the staff has been very tolerant of zoophiles and often fail to report offenders to the authorities even when some people have irrefutable proof of their actions. Many of them aren't even banned.

Ummm, okay? They can remove any images from the site if it violates the ToS, but they are NOT obligated to alert the authorities, especially if the uploader lives in another state/country.

During both cases the staff were making up and enforcing new rules.

The staff has a long story of discretionally applying the rules they make, banning dissent for minor offenses (or no offenses at all) while protecting serious offenders who coincidentally happen to be friends with some mods.

Please, read about Furaffinity from an external source before claiming that these things don't happen here.

Did you know that in some places of the US, zoophilia isn't even illegal? So exactly what COULD the FA staff is said uploader lived in that area? No law broken, so nothing could be done except removing the offending image.

Yes, but Dragoneer has stated that zoophilia is illegal in the server's state and that he will ban and report all offenders to the authorities. Officially, talking about real life zoophile experiences, or even defending it is a bannable offense. Unofficially, the staff protects them until it's too obvious and people start drama.

Did you happen to watch the video i linked?

He COULD "alert them to the authorities", but like I said, if the uploader lives in another state where zoophilia isn't illegal, there's nothing the authorities can do, since California would not have jurisdiction in any other state.

It's no use discussing with you. I already said several times that even though bestiality is against the rules, lots zoos that have confessed fucking dogs are still here unpunished and any tickets involving them are ignored.

If you're not going to address that point, just stop replying.

Really? Because a spammer just the other day uploaded the same pic of a dog fucking a guy multiple times, and got banned.

You're not even listening anymore, right?

no, not really. Because it doesn't really matter what people bitch about here. Dragoneer's site, Dragoneer's rules. Don't like em? ----> there's the door. Don't let it hit you on the ass on your way out. Go design your own site, then you can make your own rules as you see fit.

We're back to where we started -_-

Yeah, it's their rules... Rules which they don't follow.

Link related:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2nvn22Cmg8

I think the lowest point in all of this is that they're asking what punishment to emblazen on this user.

I thought we were past the society of public hangings and ritual humiliations?

No. Not even close. We never grew out of it. Remember the House Un-American Activities Committee? Blacklisting and naming citizens for ridicule? And then came the internet... When total anonymity collided with absolute safety from judgement and consequence. Now all people can be named, shamed and humiliated, with faceless monsters laughing at the exposed shame of the person.

Wow. Tsawolf just got himself compared to 4channers who drop people's dox. That's gotta be the ultimate blow, right there.

I'm not American, so I've never heard of the HUAAC. xD

Clearly though, the Internet is helping with victimisation! That's why I always try to keep my paws clean and not get into trouble.

tsawolf and Pinkuh.


Need we say more?

I read the thread, I can't beleive some of the things people were saying, all because an admin made the thread. Heh. Furries, a loving community - yeah right.

On the same note, kudos to the ones that are sticking up for him

Somebody's gotta give a damn.

Please. This is about as much a suppression of freedom of speech as getting suspended for talking shit about your eccentric boss in front of them.

But we don't work FOR the admins. Unless I've missed something in the ToS, we should be able to say whatever we want to about FA without fear of KGB-style reprisal.

Yeah, it can be rude to bash a site that you visit, but if nobody points out the problems, then the problems aren't going to fix themselves, they're going to get worse. See Jay Naylor for further proof.

As a matter of fact, as long as you're on this free site, you DO work for the admins. Nobody forced you to join here; as long as you're on it, you'll follow their rules.

And pointing out problems wasn't what this whole thing was about.

No, I do NOT work for the admins. Saying we work for the admins is like saying you work for every park, festival, and charity event you've ever gone to. And unless I missed something, there's nothing in their rules that says we can't bash FA, if there is, I'd love for you to point that out for me.

You've missed my point entirely. You act like a jerk towards the people who let you in their free website, their free forum, you say they "shunned and tossed into the garbage," you expect nothing to happen? Any private event organizer will do the same.

So one offhand remark which may or may not have been a joke is acting like a jerk? Grow a brain, will you?

Jerk.

Fursecution!

I have look to the thread.

At this time, the majority, somewhere around 50.8% or so(82 of the users voating), are in favore of no punishment.

Speach is free, long live speech.

WTF IS THIS FAGGOTRY?!

(i just voted)

site proprietors can do what they want, including dismissal without cause, but public humiliation is... just plain wrong

the only thing users can really do to show principled disapproval is withdraw from the site - go somewhere else more humane

if there's no free expression on an art community site, then the site has gotten rid of its own major reason for being; it just becomes a space for dicks to be dicks... which is sadly what too much of the web is already

(I avoid all forums exactly because of silly drama like this; I don't really need to know the office politics behind the scenes - I just want to see some anthro art and chat about it)

This is why we can't have nice things! [WILL BE BANNED FOR THIS COMMENT]

Crap, it's locked. I didn't get to add my opinion, so I'll try to remember what I said and state it here:

Throwing someone to a lynch mob for disagreeing with you... I can't even imagine the kind of underlying philosophy it requires to come to such a political decision. (Politics being Ethics applied at the social level.)

Another thing I find shocking is that more of you aren't outraged at this. 47% of you voted to punish them!? Even when rights are violated, they are still inalienable and must be stood up for. Either they apply to everyone or they apply to no-one.

"What can I do? The admins will just ban me anyway. They already do it to everyone else." This kind of mindset is what has allowed free countries to gradually slip into socialism and dictatorship. When you see an injustice but you don't do anything about it because you feel you are impotent to stop it.

I'm not saying the admins have to subvert the forum to our will. However, a sense of justice must be exercised in their decisions. Justice means treating other men as they deserve to be treated, whether that mean reward or punishment for their actions. How you treat them must be the treatment they deserve.

The admin that started this poll is either joking around, or has no sense of justice at all and should not be in the position to administer it.

Also, tsawolf's last post in that thread...

"Pardoned of all punishment for this offence."

Stating an opinion is not an offense. The question of punishment or pardon for stating an opinion should never have been raised in the first place.

Welcome to Furry.
Complicitousness has been a hallmark of this fandom-come-industry since 1994 or so. You've never noticed that 'A-Listers' are defended completely by the stooges, no matter how morally or ethically bankrupt they are? You'll never have that 1% chance of free artz or getting a commish of your insipid vanity character if you don't!

One of the irritating realities is that no one has ever set down codes of admin conduct, enforced them, nor, indeed, displayed much in the way of leadership. What was there in any one vessel vanishes upon acquisition of power, seen that several times over this site's lifespan. Admins tend to be selected in a very 'circle of friends' manner. While this is great for running a small site that probably won't see a lot of problems... when you're managing a site the size FA is now you really need competent people at the helm who can keep a hold on their temper.


It's funny because people will forget all about it after a few weeks, then it'll spring up again a few months down the road. The faces change but the way things run around here never really changes.



Actually, I can't decide what's more irritating, the power tripping mod or the SRS BZNESS asshats. I don't care if this was a 'joke', it wasn't fucking funny at all. It's like brandishing a knife at someone and then backing down and saying "lol, just kiiding gusy!"



As for Neer, all I have to say is trying to remain neutral during a shitstorm just makes it that much worse because both sides will fling shit at you and the people who don't give a damn about the argument at hand will take potshots at you for trying to pull a Switzerland when you are directly or indirectly involved with or have authority over people participating in the shitstorm.

Or, amusingly, "trying not to cause drama" actually makes more drama than taking a stand and following through on it.

Oh no and I just dissed the owners of FA in one of my comments the other day :B but if this is seriously the case the staff will become a laughing stock, almost like the staff on DA after they kicked the creator of the site out and stole his idea
I do sure hope the FA staff get a lot of negative bashing for this : D

Wow, FA seriously needs to work on its PR. I clicked the link expecting to agree with the admin, but even though I was reading his side of the story, he came off as a real jerk. Seriously, when someone claims you shun people and toss them in the garbage, calling for the community to choose that person's punishment is not a good way to prove them wrong.

Think of it this way: from a site/admin point of view, the reason Vitae's post is "bad" is because it might have discouraged the thread starter from helping out with the site's coding. The problem with tsawolf's reply is not that it's "against free speech", it's that it's more discouraging than the post that set him off in the first place.

To tell you the truth, I was actually going to complain about the site. *Sighs* I wish this place were more like Facebook (if you know what I mean).