Tonya, two points. First, when people said that Texas governor was unwelcome because of his evil policies against trans kids, you complained that you were being bullied and attacked. You could have explained why you support him as Texas governor, or that you do not. What policies are important enough for the general welfare that they outweigh the need for trans kids to live without government intrusion into their personal lives?

Second, there's a special word that historians use for Germans who supported Hitler for the positive things he was doing for Germany, and chose to set aside consideration of the other stuff. (No, I'm not violating Godwin's Law. When Republicans punch down on repressed people to strengthen their own political position, they are doing exactly the thing that needs to be called out. And Godwin himself said so.)

First, I did not say I was being bullied and attacked; my post was brought on by the bullying that  tydrian experienced, for "causes" of which I am still unaware - and probably not related to his politics. I have not been bullied, myself, though I did have one sub leave my service when he decided I was an eeeeevil person for being a convervative.

Second, I place national security, a strong economy, secure borders, and all forms of guaranteeing personal freedom for the populace as a whole above any individual's rights - including my own. Without those, there is no guarantee for trans rights, anyway. Trans rights are not subordinate to other rights, but other rights must be guaranteed first in order to create an environment where they can be guaranteed as well.

Your statement about prerequisites for rights is not self-consistent. I do not agree that trans people and their families must wait in line for all these other things to be guaranteed first. We gay people (and a good list of other minorities) got a tremendous amount of stuff in the absence of those things which you claim are prerequisites.

You seemed to be quite put out by ~ace5762's statement.

I am, because he seeks to turn the furry fandom into a hard-left Antifa/BLM woke echo chamber when it is anything but. It is not for him, or you, or me, to dictate who is welcome and who is unwelcome.

...But if you do vote for Candidate X, it implies that all the 'bad stuff' just isn't that important in comparison to priority Y, especially if Candidate Z exists. I don't know the specifics of what you're talking about, but if it's to do with Greg Abott then it's worth noting my (anecdotal) observation that people who vote for these folks despite having 'issues' with them generally have had pretty unarguably self-serving reasons for doing so once you contextualise their arguments.

You can see how, in that context, what you're saying here doesn't exactly sound like a gravely important truth, ye? Some explaining is needed here methinks.

Life isn't always in black and white. Many different shades of gray. Honestly I wish that it reflected more than just 2 choices.

If you support a politician, then no, you don't automatically support all of their views or actions, nor are you automatically as evil (or good) as they are.

However, if you support a politician, and they get into office, you are responsible for every choice they make using the power you gave them.

Yes, even when there was no way to see it coming; for example, anyone who voted for Trump holds some responsibility for him politicizing simple sickness avoidance measures and causing extra people to die of covid. Those voters chose an anti-science candidate because they had other priorities... and many who would have lived (thousands? tens of thousands?) instead died because of him.

For anyone who doesn't agree: you're objectively wrong. It's a representative government. You chose your representative. If you regret how things turned out, then learn from your mistakes and maybe your next choice will work out better.

So let see, i'm responsible for being white? Oh perish the thought that Trump was for evils when he was for common decency. I vote for representatives, not ones for power and lately, the democrats are literally for power over us as people. What ever happened to "We the people!"?

I'm not responsible for "anti-science" because Trump forced the democrats to release Covid.
There's real science, then there is the fake science of the CDC that Dr. Fake said.

It's not Trump's fault people died from Covid, it's the democrats who did and they are the ones pointing the finger!

AS for being objectively wrong, you couldn't be anymore wrong!
Sometimes, you need to know that going woke turns to shit and time to stop drinking the kool-aid.

Sadly, most lefties won't see as making a mistake but blame others.

Genuine question: how exactly has the entire world somehow failed to pick up on what would almost certainly be the biggest political conspiracy in the history of our species by far? The Democratic Party would frankly need the competence of superhumans to pull that one off.

I have no answer but I think there is a theory that people lost their common sense since the fall of Rome.

I am taken aback by, like, seven things in that reply. But, most importantly: if you honestly believe that there is a massive global conspiracy that somehow "The Democrats" are responsible for the release of covid-19 into the world, then...

Then I don't think we have anything to talk about. Irreconcilable differences. Or, at the very least, I don't have enough spoons in a day to sacrifice to try to burrow through that shell of personal belief.

I hope you have a nice day, though!

then why was Fauchi Bragging in like 2017 About how trump would face a global pandemic.

caused by a Virus that "escaped" from a Research lab doing research he backed and funded....

It feels like a waste of both of our times to discuss conspiracy theories that one of us believes and the other doesn't. Have a nice day, though!

Sooo If someone voted for Trudeau I can take they're shit Cause they Voted for the guy who subjected me to the abuse of a retired cop who brags about Taking part in atrocities 100 times worse the stone wall? Can Bully them out of the Fandom to?

Just because Voter A holds some responsibility for bringing Shitty Person X into office doesn't make you the judge, jury, and executioner of Voter A's social life. So, no, I don't think you should bully them out of the fandom.

And this is what brought on my objection in the first place: that it was OK to bully someone out of the fandom. I'm happy to hear that, despite our disagreements, we at least agree on that much.

I would be happy to agree on something. n.n But, I'm not sure we 100% agree on this.

I tentatively side with the paradox of intolerance: that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Therefore, I consider this topic somewhat of a grey area, because there are things people can do that are disgusting enough that I would not condemn removing them from a fandom. Being an unrepentant murderer of innocents is an easy example. For me, another example would be if they supported the violent ejection of an entire race of people from the US.

I draw my own lines in the sand, just like everyone draws their own, just like it's always been. On the plus side, since it's sand, it's easy enough to wipe out the line and re-draw it if we learn something new about ourselves or the world.

We all know what the problem is.

Immigration.

But to be fair though, none of y'all had been bullied in high school or so. If you did, you would've straighten up like a real man. Not leave just because someone told you to do so. That is a very weak move and possibly from someone who trooned out.