"if you like anthropomorphic creatures in more than a passing fashion, you're a furry. " I appreciate this, it's the proper definition and it's the definition that exists in a vacuum without any manipulation toward one end or another. Sometimes I get put on the exclusion list because my 'sona is technically a 'persona' rather than a 'fursona' (Well depending on who you ask, some folks consider demis to be further into furry than not-furry, which is its own entire can of worms) but like... that was never a mandatory participation requirement. I'm here because I like the same stuff, whatever slice of said stuff I might enjoy, it has the same base concept.

I also agree with that test-question. My answer would actually have been "They are all American." Which sounds like a non-answer, but I mean it seriously.

I've been a furry about as long as Kidd has and I can say that this isn't a new thing. Does anyone else here remember the burned furs?

I heard about those! I joined too late to actually interact, but BOY that sure sounded like it was 'a thing'.

yep, I lost "Friends" over it. And I literally did nothing to deserve it.

But then again, he was a devout catholic so I'm sure something would have ruined the friendship eventually. (I considered myself a shaman at the time.)

Pretty much on the nose. I would add that one can be a furry without being in the fandom, i.e. without interacting in some organized fashion with others sharing the same interest. Many don't want to be in the fandom, and that's valid, but they don't stop being a furry if they have some clear interest in it.

I prefer Sebkha's definition:

A furry is someone willing to accept the label.

Sure, there's liking this and that, but I know several people that like furry stuff but won't call themselves furries and forcing labels on people generally isn't kosher. If they'll self identify, they are, if they won't, they aren't.

I wasn't talking in terns of "labelling" , I was talking in terms of what criteria you would have to meet to consider yourself a "furry", which as I said, are about as minimal as you can get.

Hell yeah. When folks ask me about it, I tell them something similar.

Hostile takeover and gatekeeping seems to be a growing trend of niche interests that were once open and welcoming in general. 'This is right, That is wrong' 'You can't be that unless you know about this' Sooner or later there will be a HOA of the fandom, and when that day comes I'm slapping that eject button harder than a portly Russian slap-champ.

Big mood here.

As someone who got in in 1984, I am 100% on-board with this, Phant my dear, yes I am. The hyper-polarization, gatekeeping, and tacking on of sociopolitical agendas as necessary things to be included as part of the fandom is definitely reaching some kind of limit, and when the schism happens, I'm hanging up my ears and tails forever.

Naw, you'll just ascend to greater fox levels Doc Manhattan style.

Screw that. We'll make our own fandom. With Blackjack! And hookers!

Schisms are nothing new. Anime, comics, all the media fandoms all split off from science fiction fandom, and if people want a space that caters to their particular interest, that's just fine.

Life is also far too short to spend it worrying that someone is liking furries wrong

Sooner or later there will be a HOA of the fandom
I admit, I don't understand what this means.

HOA, Home Owners Association: certain housing communities have a Committee that controls the community, and to buy a home and live there you must sign a contract to abide by the Committee's rules. Those rules amount to "to be a part of this community you must meet these criteria and follow all these rules", which frequently include things like what colors you can paint your house, how tall you can let your grass grow.
You can see how that would be if you were to apply that sort of gatekeeping to being in a fandom.

Oh, I see.

I'm not too worried. Liking anthro characters is too big and broad of a concept for the whole community around it to just vanish. It'll probably just splinter into more-specialized groups over time, as is pretty common for any large fandom. It always hurts when big swaths of a community has to divorce itself from the rest, but...what can I say? Humans are big on tribalism. XD

As Wolf says...

Ostensibly it's to keep property values up, but it's a little piece of authority lying around you know exactly the sorts that pick it up and then while their afternoons away finding things to fine and hassel their neighbours about.

Last one I was in, the HOA members interfered with me selling my place and getting out - like... running up to potential buyers and getting in their face was going to increase the price. Also complained about the moving trailer I had out for 1 night while we filled it up.

They enable the wrong sorts of people, and yes, increasingly it feels like Furry is getting those types in positions where they can cause problems.

I think the others got cha covered well enough. Fair question though if you've never encountered one.

"I've been in the fandom for as long as the fandom has existed as an identifiable entity,..."

You should write down what you remember about the east coast fandom. Most furry history articles I've read mention California and the west, but skip a lot from other places.

I should do that as well, since I was in East Coast fandom essentially from the start...

Please do! I really haven't heard much of what went on besides the conventions.

Here's a start: https://www.flayrah.com/4117/retros.....6%E2%80%931996

I think this sums things up really well, thank you for sharing.

I never really considered myself as part of the fandom, I don't go to conventions or meet with people in person. I keep most if not all of my interactions online. I will say this... I have noticed a clear shift in the fandom, whether it be gatekeeping or creating sub-categories in the fandom. Some parts of the fandom don't seem as welcoming as they used to be... or I could be getting older and seeing things differently.

Could be both. As the saying goes with age comes temperment changes and so conservatism and in general either a tightening of holding onto ideals (the stalwart path) or lossening of some or most upheld ideals (The grandfather who just wants to enjoy life and not fight path, or sage path) happens. So you can see liberals become conservative (Center right, which is the path I'm taking) or super liberal. (think Middle left but not far left. though granted some will go far left) You can see conservatives become liberal (think center left) or more conservative (think middle right, like a born again christian. though far right can in fact happen). and so when new blood comes in they may push people more one way or another.. and that itself can push people away from a fandom due to it's toxicity (kinda like what's going on with Star wars, doctor who and star trek.)

And i admit i don't go to cons myself (too poor, not enough interest for me to go (i'm an introvert who usually interacts with the rest of humanity at arms length.. of my arm to my keyboard.) and other issues come up (like too lazy to actually commit.. or is that axienty to comitt? oh well)

also which way do you think the fandom is shifting? if you don't mind me asking. because while I see it one way I know others can see it another way that is unique to them. Like with me being center right it means I notice more the shift from my own views more astutely than i do from those shifts towards my own views.

I feel it is shifting away from being friendly and welcoming, becoming more toxic and divisive. It's not really possible to have differing opinions, or to agree to disagree. I took issue with the, all cops are bad, trend and some of the things people were saying or wishing upon people in that position. It left me feeling isolated and angry. I have friends and family in law enforcement, perhaps I took it too personally, but when it is being repeated everywhere by everybody in journals and on social media... yeah... I got a little vocal, and got blocked by people for it. I felt like a lot of people would celebrate my misery if the people I know got injured or ended, on duty or off duty.

Perhaps I will receive some negative comments from the people here or you for my post. I am aware that dirty cops exist, bad apples exist in every group or profession. I just don't think it's fair to say the entire bag of apples is bad because of one bad apple.

As for right or left, I tend to land somewhere in the center, perhaps center right. I was raised in a Christian household. I was raised to treat people with respect and to treat them how I would like to be treated. Etc.

No worries here bro, you willn't anger me for supporting the police. I do not condone the group who spews about ACAB, and then go on as if nothing happened when a black retired cop gets killed by a black looter when he went to protect a friend's business. David Dorn is the guys name who, because he was a cop, his black life didn't matter.

Those kind of people aren't worth having in your life, and maybe they did you a service in blocking you because you can't get mocked or jeered at or angry at for when they celebrate an officers death who may be known to you.

But i also find it funny how when a certain group mis-construes four cops who died after the 'jan 6" incident (i think there was some planning in that on a certain side who currently holds power) where their death wasn't attributed to that day.. NOW say that a cop's death is a horrible thing (because this time it was by a 'conservative') it's the main stream media, our own leaders, our celebrity's or rather, entirely our elites are working to separate the populace to make them more controllable.

I remember a certain group saying how it's interesting that as kids we have zero prejedices, and then we get them instilled upon us by our parents, family and society. This same group also wants to have unity and peace but at the same time will not allow others to even have the remote freedom to think for themselves and to voice their opinions as we did when we where children who would go "You think that's how it is? maaan.. you're stupid.. but we're still cool. Come on, lets race to my house, mom's got some great snacks for us this time!"

So instead this group pushes everyone they disagree with away and see that the only way unity can be achieved is through their way. In truth.. who's really wise enough to say what can lead to true unity? But I really hope a mono-culture isn't the only way as that is what can lead to a dystopian future. IT's also funny they want a mono-culture but keep saying that to question one culture and then praise another culture through partaking in their customs is bad. Confusing times we're in.. and i'm tired and rambling so I think i'ma wrap this up and go.

I was raised catholic. but my mom (single parent) was super leinent and also celebrated new age stuff such as native american spiritualism, and some degree of druidism. as such was kinda raised center left. Was even for a while a 'soy boy' who hated my own gender because "it was the right path" but now? I don't hate my gender and do have some distaste for the female gender due to now seeing how they have manipulated everyone around them but i still want to hope that not all women are like that.

Like any social entity the fandom is a living, breathing thing; it changes and evolves over time. Activities that were common and practically de rigueur once upon a time hardly even exist anymore: APAs (Amateur Press Associations) and MUCKs (text-based role-playing systems) barely exist, meanwhile fursuits, which hardly existed when the fandom started are now all-pervasive. Meanwhile the fandom has grown exponentially larger, and subgroups have sprung up because now they *can*: When there's only one furry convention in the whole world and only 200 people at it, breaking up into small special-interest groups is going to be veeeery lonely.

An interesting situation would be if, say, a genetically/surgically modified human who is basically an ''anthro'' at this point meets with a ''furry'' and starts discussing what it means to be a furry & anthro.

I can see this going several ways, both good and bad, the furry could deny that the anthro is a furry or even an anthro since they are ''just a modded human'' while the anthro could sneer at the human/furry for still being just a human, it would be an interesting exchange.

My first thought regarding "What one thing is true of all Americans?" was ''They all live in America i guess'' XD

I always consciously denied being a furry because the largely accepted definition I always saw, is it is a "way of life". That is, having a totem, or feeling attracted to something from the animal kingdom ("feeling feral", being close to a certain kind of animal....), and so on. I love nature but that is absolutely not how I consider myself, how I react, how I feel.

Now, under YOUR definition, yes, I have no problem being called a furry, it is in fact exactly the whole point. But I never saw anything this simple and precise before.

Long ago, my friend. Long ago in a far away place, at the beginning of the fandom, that WAS the sole definition. Period. No strings attached.

well.. if what you say is true (and it sounds definitively true) then.. I for one next time someone asks me that I'll tell them exactly that definition. and the exact definition of anthro is, essentually (as I've come to define it anyways) the fusion of human and animal qualities, where in the beauty of the human form is enhanced by the beauty of the animal form. This also includes giving animals a more human charcteristic of having a culture, way of speaking, science, and other interesting facets of how a group of people like that would live. I mean.. just think about how chairs would be designed if we all still had our monkey tails! would there be a hole straight up in the middle we would have to skirt it through or would we all just sit on stools? it's a fascinating mental exercise to understand how another species that isn't us would invent things to make their live better.

On the issue of the ergonomics of an anthropomorphic society, it's a long-winded and, surprisingly, fairly extensively fan-researched subject WELL beyond the scope of any conversation here to have, but aye.

And glad to hear - the less gatekeeping the fandom has, the less rabid agendas (well-meaning or else) get pushed down folks' throats, the better the fandom can and will be.

Well, that must have been a reaaaally long ago indeed because I am in the circle since quite some time (a little less than 30 years I believe) and that's really the only on I heard <_<

Yeah the "lifestyle" gatekeep has been around a very, very long time, it inserted itself in the early years of the fandom by the overly-enthusiastic fans who insisted that you have to "live" your fandom, you can't merely enjoy it. In Sci-fi fandom there was/is a pronounced differences between "Trekkies" and "Trekkers" where for one, Star Trek is a "lifestyle" that you lived, and the other definition Star Trek is just something you really like.

That's quite an interesting comparison!

I got into the fandom around 1984, and didn't see the "lifestyle" gatekeeping until the early to mid 1990s.

That does match...

I remember this happening often in local groups during the early 90s and then eventually on a larger scale around the turn of the century, even before the Burned Furs became a thing. And with the current trend in politics, I suspect we are going to be seeing more of it in the near future.

Been making this argument for decades, 100% agree

Very refreshing and well-considered bit of wisdom.

I find that while there are plenty of people who may be pushing an agenda when they tell others a 'Furry is X or Y', I'm also of a mind to believe it's less an agenda and more just...a lack of introspection. Identity in the fandom is a very superficial thing to a number of furs I've met and gotten to know, where they will label specific characteristics 'Furry characteristics' as if they're flair to put on or take off. When ultimately it just means they've tacked on a bunch of that flair as beacons on top of the underlying core of what the fandom is: An interest in--and celebration and exploration of--anthropomorphic animal themes. That's kinda all.

So it does tickle me when I see accounts proudly declaring 'I am NOT a Furry' when their favorites and galleries are littered with anthropomorphic paraphernalia, fetishized or non. Likewise I steer clear of folk attempting to define what characteristics makes others a "good furry" because they usually are some superficial checkmark: Have a fursuit, have an SL or VRChat av, have gon to a con, have collected art. Like what editorials and exposes on the fandom oft fail to grasp: Those're window-dressing. Most folk are Furries before they even know they're Furries.

Thanks for sharing that, Wolf. :)

Furries are just people that like anthropomorphic animals a bit too much. that's the basis for being a furry. you don't need to be involved in the group. or think you are a furry. You are a furry when you think you might be and enjoy the artwork or events that happen with in the fandom. I might sound biased and hypocritical, specially given I'm 99% NSFW oriented. But the Adult thing, while its wonderful and fun. its not the definition by any means of the fandom. and personally it bugs me when that is used as "YOU ARE A FURRY NOW" It generates an dumb stigma for those that might be interested in anthro animals in cartoons or writing or any media but are by no means involved in the fandom. It can deter people into finding more depth into it. and miss on the ridiculous good things that the fandom has to offer. We often see terrfic pieces of literature, film, music, sculpting and just about any plastic art we can think off. The fandom has become largely a harbor for artist and creative people. I see people creating fabulous things in painting, animation. sculpting. like those suits that have super detail lights and eye movement. I dare say these would rival Special effects of not many years ago and even many of what we see today. So many great things get created in the fandom on a daily basis. Many of which don't stay in the fandom and make it into common media.

The fandom is by the most part its own little economy, this is something I deeply love.

You know that I've been in the "fandom" for decades just as you have. I can remember a time back in the 70s and 80s when there were no titles, like "furry" or "furries", nor anyone wearing fursuits. Just people who enjoyed stories that happened to have anthropomorphic characters in them such as Fritz the Cat, Omaha the Cat Dancer, Erma Felna EDF, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Usagi Yojimbo, Critters, Fusion, Red Shetland, Empires, and so many, many more. Not until around the mid-1990s was what stereotypically would be called "Furries" became a noticeable phenomena and it only became more prominent over the remainder of the 90s and then into the early 2000s when the early internet and mainstream media took the worst parts of the fandom and magnified it way out of all proportion, ignoring people who just liked stories or art, but were not into the extreme elements in the name of sensationalism.

It's that pigeonholing that many fans, especially some of the old guard types, like myself, came to resent.

That is an interesting question, never heard of it before!

Oh, Geemo my dear, long ago that was the sole and only thing that "defined" a furry. Nothing more. Not having a fursona, not needing to live some specific lifestyle, or adopt some specific spiritual belief, or any of a million or more other qualifiers. It was once simple, easy, and had no gates to keep. How I miss those days with a passion I can't begin to describe. Any time you hear me speak of furry, THAT definition, "someone who likes anthropomorphic animals" is my ringing and sole definition.

I meant the question about Americans in the citizenship test

Oh, durr on me,,, Heh! ^_^;;

No worries!

Beyond that one definition you can ask 10 Furries what furry is you will get 11 answers... if you are lucky.

That's always been my definition as well. Whether others self-identify is another matter.

Bingo. Been saying this for ages. With the caveat that if a person doesn't /want/ to be a furry, don't push it. It's just a fandom, and trying to push it on folks just makes enemies. Let folks choose their own labels.

Amen!

This Journal, I truly love and appreciate. It's a Truth. Capital T. People all over need to realize it. Thank you for posting. I do wish I could fav this Journal.

Wish I could like/fave this and tweet it to other places cause it really is a good read/post about what = furry.

If you want to quote it/link it, feel free.

I'm not a first gen, but I knew lots. I've always been a furry, I was always slanted to animal characters, I just didn't have a word for it until far later. I've always felt like a furry even without the vocabulary. That's what makes you a furry.

I'm not old but the weather arthritis makes me feel old (even if it's plagued me since way back) and I have memories of the beautiful days back when. And this question sparked memories of things like the musical Eurofurs. The song "Furry Art" had a piece of a poem that lays it all out. I found that poem, and saved a link. Here you go.

http://www.tigerden.com/poem.html

Amen.

An interesting citizenship question, indeed. I'd go with 'so far, they're all H. sapiens.'

Yeah, keep catching the frustrated older generations bumping into shitty kid-luring vtubers on youtube/twitch trying to redefine what is or isn't okay to be furry so they can try to turn furry into something more marketable for their demographics/audience (by excluding others) and its pretty disgusting. One of the main draws of furry is that it'll literally take in all kinds (and frankly give some much needed practice in socializing to young adults in a hurry). Thankfully, they're just a very noisy minority with a loud advertising platform. The furry fandom exploded in population, so it'll be a very long time before the shitty segment of the vtuber population has any actual sway other than annoying people with bad vibes from time to time. It's pretty hard to win socially when you're fighting against inclusivity.

I see it everywhere, not just on streams but in Discords, chats, image-boards, everywhere. That sort of gatekeeping depresses me because how many really cool, interesting, talented people were told "You aren't/don't like X, therefore you are not a furry, go away."

That is when it is most appropriate to laugh in their face for the sake of social correction.

👍

This was a constant question to me way back way after I first learned. Thought I was being weird at the beginning, but as the many years of being on the internet came and watching people simp for anthropomorphic characters from various medias and artist I learned it’s not weird at all.

Even as I witness some people make belittling excluded comments on the word but will comment about liking this one anthro character in a anime or show with the “I’m not a furry…but” comment.

Frankly the change of the definition is helpful, considering being weird for liking this one thing is becoming the new norm now. Especially when animated movies keep making them.

You register for cons, but there is no such thing as registering for a fandom. There is no form to fill out, nor is there an application for membership that has to be approved by X or Y committee. I think there are those that wish there were such a process, so that they can exclude others. I am a furry, period.

In the end, being a furry is as nebulous as being an artist... you inevitably need follow-up questions and that's a good thing.

As you had mentioned that it was acceptable to do so, I have taken the liberty of directing any whom care to watch me towards your Journal here and the words of wisdom therein, along with the comments (as many of them are well and away worth the time taken to read through.

for your own perusal, I present the link: https://www.furaffinity.net/journal/10178904/

With thanks to you always,
Mika Kyubi
Kitsune-at-Large
(oft-times QUITE large)

Well said, good buddy~

I think being a furry is a bit more than just an appreciation of anthros, but everyone has their own definitions of it for some reason. Recently on Imgur, someone posted some links to videos that involved a sexy gazelle stripper dancing and someone commented, 'I'm not a furry, I'm not a furry... FUCK!' as if just seeing an anthro they liked forced them into the fandom.

I think it's possible to like something that can be classified as furry without it *making you into* a furry, or even to like *several* things in that direction. I grew up with all the classic stuff: cartoons, cereal box mascots and so on, and I liked them; I think most people like them, or they wouldn't have existed for so long. But I also don't feel that my liking them makes me furry. There's more depth to it than that.

I do agree with that final statement that liking anthros is a unifying quality of all furries though.

...they like anthropomorphic creatures

I guess that makes me a furry...no ya know what... I AM a furry, and proud of it! :D

Welcome to the club! :D

I'm a fellow oldtimer and I say that even a passing interest in anthropomorphic animals is enough to be a furry if you want it to be.

I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking if you would use the term furry then that defines your whole self and is your only interest. And for most people thats not the case. I have many interests and talking, walking funny animal people are one of many.They were an interest of mine as a young kid the first time I saw cartoons on tv or saw a Richard Scarry picture book way back in the early 80s.

Thank you, Wolfkidd, for summing up what it means to be a furry. It's a lot more simple, and even more tasteful, than most people think.

It really is sad that when you say you're a furry, everyone thinks instantly you're the most extreme level