So where do the gays come in?

It's mostly referring to the sort of people who complain about their rights, about hate crime, and then turn around and support a ban on the right to carry a firearm and defend themselves.

Ok- makes sense now.

Some people just love to be a victim.

Id hardly consider the two issues linked. I'm a gun collector (surprise) and I'm also pro gay rights (not so much). Honestly do your really think gun control is a gay agenda? Even if there is some connection your talking about a very small slice of the population, so why draw attention to it?

No, it's just something that bothers me when someone is busy bawwing over Matthew Shepard, but would willingly turn around and take the guns away from any law abiding citizens, including gays trying to protect themselves from a similar fate. It was just something that was bothering me while I was in the bathroom earlier.

OK fair enough I suppose. I thinks you need to elaborate a bit more

OK fair enough I suppose. I thinks you need to elaborate a bit more

I was going to explain it further, but I figured this way might open it up to some interesting discussion.

Both things are more linked that you think.

I remember in the early nineties I read some comics on a very politically oriented Gay magazine that showed their idea of a "perfect world". The cartoon showed a weak castrated man with a sign that said "Testosterone removed".

Sexual orientation has little to do with these people's ideology. They weren't talking about a place where both homosexuals and heterosexuals would enjoy their lives freely. They were talking about eliminating all traces of masculinity on the human race.

Of course, it was just a cartoon. But it talked about the mind of the author.

Taking away your guns... taking away your testicles... do you see any common denominator?

No frankly, I don't need my gun to prove or support my masculinity, and nethier does anyone else.

As far as the cartoon, I'm sure it was more of a joke then anything. I have met my share of gays that were masculine and I have NEVER met one that thought of eliminating masculinity was ideal. In fact most of the femme types I have met....kinda go for the more butch types.

I don't buy into "the gay agenda" or whatnot, thats an idea that is only supported by the ditractors.

So, sorry man I think you have this one wrong.

I never said anything about guns being needed to support masculinity.

I'm not talking about any "gay agenda" here. I'm not at all saying this is the state of mind of gays in general.

I'm talking about a group of people with a defined political objective. For them sexual orientation is just one of many ways they use to attract sympathy from different groups. They also use race, nationality, religions and many other things with the same purpose.

The cartoon might a joke... but the ideology of the people behind it was serious. Besides the cartoons, those magazines contained all kind of serious articles that gave an insight on their authors' way of thinking.

These people had no interest in "coexistence" or "tolerance". They blatantly talked about eliminating any kind of opposition. Back in those pre-911 days they even used the word "Terrorism" a lot when talking about valid methods to achieve their goals.

I'm sure you are going to tell me those were a very small extremist group of people who are not representative of most homosexual people. And I agree completely.

But those people were real and they still are, and they didn't go away in these years. They are in many places today. Now they have blogs instead of small press magazines.

An important part of their ideology was that "men" were bad and dangerous because they had guns and balls. They blamed every single of society's problems on masculine hormones (testosterone is the cause of all wars) Their idea of a perfect human was one whose weapons (both natural and artificial) had been taken away.

Curiously, such a man would be any government's "ideal" citizen. Obedient, servile, docile, dependent... controllable.

I'm sure you are going to tell me those were a very small extremist group of people who are not representative of most homosexual people. And I agree completely.

I needed to see that in the first post, you made it sound like thats how most gays were...or how a lot of them were. To be honest I have never heard anything like it till you brought it up. I'm not surprised that such a lunatic fringe exists, fact of the matter is their is one for most causes these days.

But those people were real and they still are, and they didn't go away in these years. They are in many places today. Now they have blogs instead of small press magazines.

Nothing to worry about I'll wager, the KKK is still around and most likely will always be around. Thankfully they are more of a joke then a political machine these days.

Their was another lunatic gay rights group out in the 90s (I forget the name) that used to go around beating up people as a way to get even for a lot of the beatings gays had gotten over the years. They tried to sighn me up (I'm Bi)...on one paw I was flattered, I like my badass reputation...but on the other I don't agree with the idea that MORE random violence makes things better, I later found out that they were ok with rape as well. Havent seen or heard of them, I hope its becasue they are all dead, or in jail. My fists are great tools, my guns are deadly accurate, but its my mind that most of my enemies will get the most pain from.

Your comparison is valid.

What scares me is that while a it would be very hard for a KKK whako to climb to any important or influential government position nowadays, it is pretty easy for one of those people I talked about. Actually, some of them could be right now in positions where they have power over our lives.

Wackos are already in charge of much of our lives. Don't let it get you down...fight back...but don't let the worry get to ya, know what I mean?

It's not a gay agenda, but it is a liberal agenda, and gays are traditionally liberal.

Can you blame them all facts considered?

This, of course, is why I'm a Pink Pistol.

Awesome. I had just mentioned that that was my stance on the issue.

Pink Pistol?

http://www.pinkpistols.org/

think NRA for gays

I've known of the group for a while now, but I have not found any others on Wisconsin

I Am, however, a member in good standing with the NRA.

And you don't hafta be gay. Our local chapter has sevewral members who shoot with us just 'cause we're fun!

*shrugs* and your point is?

I wouldn't care WHO all else was in the group, I have not found any members in central wisconsin. there's a small group down in Milwaukee... 4 hours away, and another group in Minniapolis/St.Paul... again about 4 hours away

I drive for a living, and the last thing I'm going to WANT to do on the only 4 days I get off per month... id drive most of a day to go shooting.

the "local range" in town is for members only, and I cannot get them to return my phone calls because I can't get there when THEY want to have meetings.

so I just go out in the woods to shoot. there's MILES of tree farm land all around me, and it's all public use

people hunt in there all the time.

there are no set ranges, I just pick a tree I don't like and shoot at it.

I GOT MY L1A1 TO WORK AGAIN! :D

turns out all it needed was more and more and mooooooore gun oil and plenty of time to wear the parts together better.

Century L1a1 by any chance? Fit on those is often pretty bad, and yeah, they have to wear in.

That's good to hear. I was having some issues with my STG-58, but it was a little copper deposit on the firing pin making it stick, causing light strikes and slamfires. Important to clean out the bolt, even on piston guns.

Oh yea, anything capable of semi-auto fire I field strip and clean and lube everything I can get to. I figure it's needed, not just advised.
Oh, also, Saiga-12 may just have a tight spring, because while 2 and 3/4" still won't cycle, it takes 3" like a champ.

Hmm, that's odd. I just took mine out a couple weeks ago, and with the new U.S. piston, it was cycling Fiocchi low recoil buckshot, and Remington game loads without a hickup (so long as you don't count the softer Fiocchi hulls deforming on the first couple rounds of a full 10rnd mag, it was 100%)

A little vid of our last shooting, including slomo of the AUG's stovepipe issue and a problem with a 30-06 where the clip will fall out every time the weapon is fired.
Well... and a lot of other video too :3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtGWjNgLIEs

Homosexuality has only been recently associated with that kind of "victim culture" many gays embrace today.

All thought the History of humanity there were many societies where homosexuals were the strongest and bravest. They didn't just defend themselves, but they were the first line of defense of their societies.

Just check out the epic battles of Ancient Greece and of course Spartaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Some even say one of the secret weapons of the ancients was to place lovers side by side on the phalanx formation, where they would hold position and fight to the death fueled not only by their courage but their mutual love.

I know some homosexual people who love guns and are the complete opposite of all the common gay cliches. Stereotypes are just that, stereotypes.

If you are seriously interested in a different point of view on homosexuality I can recommend this book, written by gay man who refuses to embrace a pre-fabricated collective identity and makes his own personal one.

http://www.amazon.com/Androphilia-R.....dp/0976403587/

"Androphilia is a rejection of the overloaded gay identity and a return to a discussion of homosexuality in terms of desire: a raw, apolitical sexual desire and the sexualized appreciation for masculinity as experienced by men."

WOW I'm not the only bastard in this world that thinks that way!! ROCK AND ROLL I need to pick this one up and give it a read.

thanks Pig.

Stereotypes do exist for a reason, though. Quite a majority of gay men do pursue that sort of victim-hood lifestyle, I guess you could say.

But essentially, that's partly what I'm saying. I'm more going along the lines of, rather than asking and begging for your rights, take them; and rather than holding memorials for the rising number of victims of hate crimes, make sure that you're not the next victim.

And as tired and fed up with the 300 themed crap, I'll have to give that book a look next time I get the chance.

I must ad the book has nothing to do with the movie 300. I think the author wrote before the movie came out anyway.

Oh, not the book, but all the other Sparta stuff. 300 parodies, jokes, people yelling "SPARTA" for no reason, etc.

This is madness!

Yeah, exactly that.

Ironically enough just from the groups of people I hang with, I know about twice as many bi or gay gun owners as straight ones.