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Addendum to the "Burnout" journal
3 years ago
3 weeks ago, I wrote an FA journal about my frustrations lately with the fat fur corners of the furry fandom, a lot of the never-ending animosities going on that affect way too many people despite them not doing anything genuinely wrong, a muddling of what should be clear-cut that's getting ultra-destructive and abusive too often in the wrong hands and from all this, how much more disassociated I've been feeling of late. You can read the journal here, if you missed it. --> https://www.furaffinity.net/journal/10295497
At the end of the journal, I openly said that I'd be down for feedback over these things. I get 2 comments a few hours ago but while the comments themselves tried to be nuanced on the subject, they boiled down to "I don't see fat people as subhumans, but I feel awful supporting positive fat representation as it's really unhealthy IRL and yet I LoVe ThE fEtiSh". I don't want to encourage mob behaviour, so I blanked out their username and icon but the original comments can be seen here (they are hidden in the journal so don't bother hunting for them to reply back). --> https://tinyurl.com/ve4h8m5u
Okay. So...I guess this is happening because there's a guy who's also another artist in the fat-fur corners of the fandom who's gone shaudenfreud-viral recently for similar hypocritical mental crisis nonsense regarding if its "immoral" or not to create and be interested in positive fat representation, wether in physical attraction of that or not, due to beliefs that same person has that're...kinda mean to fat people, let's be honest...so count this as my reply to this, here's my stance:
No, it's not immoral to find obesity physically attractive so long as you don't mistreat people's boundaries and consent for it...
...but it IS immoral to make an income from sexualising obesity while not actually believing fat people should feel happy to exist within their own bodies, on their own terms. THAT is the "immoral" thing here.
Fat people do not need those who aren't fat to concern-troll them (or, how about this for a better term to use, bully them) into feeling devalidated for existing, they should be allowed to make their own decisions on what they do with their own bodies. And if behind their backs, you're treating them purely as sexual objects, like...honestly, take a step back and think about how this might be a problem, yeah?
Why exactly are you attracted to obesity when its on others, or portrayed, while disliking the notion that fat people can have their own autonomy to a point of being against that for regular "ew, unhealthy because the TV says it is" reasons? Do you get extra gratification and thrill on the idea of being into something that's "bad" so twist something that's actually quite benign into an issue? What are you trying to achieve by talking about this openly on someone else's journal even if it's (let's be honest) largely irrelevant to what the journal's about barring the fact we share a niche community...to help try and muddy understanding of this stuff? To "debate" me?
This should not be a debate. You don't get to decide what other fat people do with their own bodies and no one asked for your opinion on real fat people's autonomy.
What WOULD constitute as "being dangerous to them" is stuff that would be immediately lethal to people...heck, anorexia is more harmful to suffers of that (and anorexia *is* a genuine problem that should be thought of as such due to how intensely unhealthy it is) than how obesity is to fat people regularly. Yet we hardly hear enough concern over anorexia sufferers. Interesting, eh?
Even if someone's so fat that they count as being more likely to have worse health problems than fat people who aren't as big, they are proberbly way too aware of the risks as is. Talked to beyond boredom by every medical professional out there. And if they decide to embrace or make peace with that rather than make decisions that would possibly put them in worse health risks than if they didn't do anything, then...hey, that's how they wanna go about that stuff and it's their decision and not your's. Just as much as if a fat person, even a gainer, decided to try and lose weight for any of their own reasons.
You have to be respectful for whatever someone's decisions are with dealing with being fat, if they are, and if they are fine with being big or even want to be bigger? Let them.
It's their life, their body, their choice. Not your's.
If you can only think about someone's own features through the gaze of sexual attraction rather than also or instead through the gaze of someone's own valid existence, then...seriously, maybe rethink how you empathise with other people because if you can't appreciate someone's humanity and only their visual assets like an object, then people will tell.
And let me tell you, people aren't fans of hypocrites as-is but...to be fatphobic in secret yet profits and objectifies fat people for financial gain and weird sexual gratification? ...oof.
These comments weren't even all that relevant to a lot of what I said in that journal aside from "I can't really pinpoint what you're going at here" at the beginning which...well, you might as well of not replied to the journal at all if you didn't actually care for feedback on my own dilemma that...was totally detached to the weird fatphobic hypocrite stuff you've got going on so...thank you? Hmmf. :S Ah well.
So...yeah, I couldn't let that stuff slide. Fat people deserve dignity and respect. Fat in itself is not sexual and should not be looked at just through a sexual gaze.
You don't get to decide what others do with themselves if they're fat. No if's, no but's. Journal done. =P
- Nell.
At the end of the journal, I openly said that I'd be down for feedback over these things. I get 2 comments a few hours ago but while the comments themselves tried to be nuanced on the subject, they boiled down to "I don't see fat people as subhumans, but I feel awful supporting positive fat representation as it's really unhealthy IRL and yet I LoVe ThE fEtiSh". I don't want to encourage mob behaviour, so I blanked out their username and icon but the original comments can be seen here (they are hidden in the journal so don't bother hunting for them to reply back). --> https://tinyurl.com/ve4h8m5u
Okay. So...I guess this is happening because there's a guy who's also another artist in the fat-fur corners of the fandom who's gone shaudenfreud-viral recently for similar hypocritical mental crisis nonsense regarding if its "immoral" or not to create and be interested in positive fat representation, wether in physical attraction of that or not, due to beliefs that same person has that're...kinda mean to fat people, let's be honest...so count this as my reply to this, here's my stance:
No, it's not immoral to find obesity physically attractive so long as you don't mistreat people's boundaries and consent for it...
...but it IS immoral to make an income from sexualising obesity while not actually believing fat people should feel happy to exist within their own bodies, on their own terms. THAT is the "immoral" thing here.
Fat people do not need those who aren't fat to concern-troll them (or, how about this for a better term to use, bully them) into feeling devalidated for existing, they should be allowed to make their own decisions on what they do with their own bodies. And if behind their backs, you're treating them purely as sexual objects, like...honestly, take a step back and think about how this might be a problem, yeah?
Why exactly are you attracted to obesity when its on others, or portrayed, while disliking the notion that fat people can have their own autonomy to a point of being against that for regular "ew, unhealthy because the TV says it is" reasons? Do you get extra gratification and thrill on the idea of being into something that's "bad" so twist something that's actually quite benign into an issue? What are you trying to achieve by talking about this openly on someone else's journal even if it's (let's be honest) largely irrelevant to what the journal's about barring the fact we share a niche community...to help try and muddy understanding of this stuff? To "debate" me?
This should not be a debate. You don't get to decide what other fat people do with their own bodies and no one asked for your opinion on real fat people's autonomy.
What WOULD constitute as "being dangerous to them" is stuff that would be immediately lethal to people...heck, anorexia is more harmful to suffers of that (and anorexia *is* a genuine problem that should be thought of as such due to how intensely unhealthy it is) than how obesity is to fat people regularly. Yet we hardly hear enough concern over anorexia sufferers. Interesting, eh?
Even if someone's so fat that they count as being more likely to have worse health problems than fat people who aren't as big, they are proberbly way too aware of the risks as is. Talked to beyond boredom by every medical professional out there. And if they decide to embrace or make peace with that rather than make decisions that would possibly put them in worse health risks than if they didn't do anything, then...hey, that's how they wanna go about that stuff and it's their decision and not your's. Just as much as if a fat person, even a gainer, decided to try and lose weight for any of their own reasons.
You have to be respectful for whatever someone's decisions are with dealing with being fat, if they are, and if they are fine with being big or even want to be bigger? Let them.
It's their life, their body, their choice. Not your's.
If you can only think about someone's own features through the gaze of sexual attraction rather than also or instead through the gaze of someone's own valid existence, then...seriously, maybe rethink how you empathise with other people because if you can't appreciate someone's humanity and only their visual assets like an object, then people will tell.
And let me tell you, people aren't fans of hypocrites as-is but...to be fatphobic in secret yet profits and objectifies fat people for financial gain and weird sexual gratification? ...oof.
These comments weren't even all that relevant to a lot of what I said in that journal aside from "I can't really pinpoint what you're going at here" at the beginning which...well, you might as well of not replied to the journal at all if you didn't actually care for feedback on my own dilemma that...was totally detached to the weird fatphobic hypocrite stuff you've got going on so...thank you? Hmmf. :S Ah well.
So...yeah, I couldn't let that stuff slide. Fat people deserve dignity and respect. Fat in itself is not sexual and should not be looked at just through a sexual gaze.
You don't get to decide what others do with themselves if they're fat. No if's, no but's. Journal done. =P
- Nell.
