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Pen-Pushing Python Ponderings
3 years ago
So I'm writing again, after a bit of a drought since finishing my last book.
But, as I look to the future, and plan projects (or pick up old ones again), I wanted to ask my audience - those of you who actually look at journals, anyway:
Since I released 'BLFC Room Party' at the end of January 2022, is it too soon to make another story-for-sale?
Something inside me says I should aim for only one of those per year. But who knows, maybe every six months would be nice? You tell me.
Meanwhile, I want to say, I am planning on making plenty of free stories.
In general, I think shorter things I make will always be free, and longer ones will be for sale.
But, I have also been considering trying to make smaller things for sale. My two books are both over 100k words, and that's a bit of a daunting number of words to read. They were originally priced at 6 and 5 dollars, but maybe people would like smaller things that are 1 or 2 dollars to buy.
[Maybe at that small amount, they won't seem worth it? Then again, look at apps and digital song purchases, that's the whole idea, there! Everything's a dollar! Everyone can spare a dollar, for something they want. >___>]
-
I am currently in the middle of making a short story that will accompany some new art I've purchased, and that will all be posted together, here on FA. But I already know I want to do a sequel, basically. And that sequel would be bigger and smuttier, more involved.
And I have had many thoughts about going back to various sexy shorts that are already here on FA and adding smutty sequels onto them. But I also imagine I'd be selling the sequels.
My question here is: Is selling sequels to free items somehow rude? I mean, should all my for-sale work be self-contained and not interlink with freely available tales? I have this image of people getting mad that I 'took a free thing and made more, but held it hostage' - but maybe that's silly.
But, isn't this always how it goes? When a game sequel comes out, the first one in the series is given away for free, or DEEPLY discounted? On the Amazon kindle store, every erotica series has a free or super cheap first chapter, then the rest are all 4 or 5 bucks for each segment.
~~~
Patreon / SubscribeStar & KoFi / Shinies:
I have always maintained the notion that I do not put out enough work for a subscription-style support system like these sites, where it all comes down to monthly structures.
That said, I recognize that the point of those sites is not really meant to be the rewards or the early access or whatever - the true purpose of Patreon or SubStar is to allow people to support their favourite creators, regardless of what they're making, or how long it takes them. Right?
Still, I never made a Patreon for myself because I thought 'if anyone wants to support me, they will send a Ko-Fi' - my KoFi URL is on the top of my FA profile page, and it's on every single one of my posts, at the bottom of the description box, because it's in my standard footer text.
But I have only ever received perhaps 7 of those.
So on that note, should I turn on the FA Shinies system?
-
All in all, I think the answer to all of that is 'you might as well make them / use them, because even if you only get 3 bucks once or twice, then that's better than the NO bucks you were getting before.'
~~~
Thoughts?
But, as I look to the future, and plan projects (or pick up old ones again), I wanted to ask my audience - those of you who actually look at journals, anyway:
Since I released 'BLFC Room Party' at the end of January 2022, is it too soon to make another story-for-sale?
Something inside me says I should aim for only one of those per year. But who knows, maybe every six months would be nice? You tell me.
Meanwhile, I want to say, I am planning on making plenty of free stories.
In general, I think shorter things I make will always be free, and longer ones will be for sale.
But, I have also been considering trying to make smaller things for sale. My two books are both over 100k words, and that's a bit of a daunting number of words to read. They were originally priced at 6 and 5 dollars, but maybe people would like smaller things that are 1 or 2 dollars to buy.
[Maybe at that small amount, they won't seem worth it? Then again, look at apps and digital song purchases, that's the whole idea, there! Everything's a dollar! Everyone can spare a dollar, for something they want. >___>]
-
I am currently in the middle of making a short story that will accompany some new art I've purchased, and that will all be posted together, here on FA. But I already know I want to do a sequel, basically. And that sequel would be bigger and smuttier, more involved.
And I have had many thoughts about going back to various sexy shorts that are already here on FA and adding smutty sequels onto them. But I also imagine I'd be selling the sequels.
My question here is: Is selling sequels to free items somehow rude? I mean, should all my for-sale work be self-contained and not interlink with freely available tales? I have this image of people getting mad that I 'took a free thing and made more, but held it hostage' - but maybe that's silly.
But, isn't this always how it goes? When a game sequel comes out, the first one in the series is given away for free, or DEEPLY discounted? On the Amazon kindle store, every erotica series has a free or super cheap first chapter, then the rest are all 4 or 5 bucks for each segment.
~~~
Patreon / SubscribeStar & KoFi / Shinies:
I have always maintained the notion that I do not put out enough work for a subscription-style support system like these sites, where it all comes down to monthly structures.
That said, I recognize that the point of those sites is not really meant to be the rewards or the early access or whatever - the true purpose of Patreon or SubStar is to allow people to support their favourite creators, regardless of what they're making, or how long it takes them. Right?
Still, I never made a Patreon for myself because I thought 'if anyone wants to support me, they will send a Ko-Fi' - my KoFi URL is on the top of my FA profile page, and it's on every single one of my posts, at the bottom of the description box, because it's in my standard footer text.
But I have only ever received perhaps 7 of those.
So on that note, should I turn on the FA Shinies system?
-
All in all, I think the answer to all of that is 'you might as well make them / use them, because even if you only get 3 bucks once or twice, then that's better than the NO bucks you were getting before.'
~~~
Thoughts?
Honestly it's been pretty common practice world-wide for a good while. Game demos, for example. Or comic books with either free or super-cheap first issues. Honestly it's never 'rude' to say "Hey, this thing I made took a lot of work and I want to sell it." Rude is expecting someone to give their time away for free when they do not want to!
"I have always maintained the notion that I do not put out enough work for a subscription-style support system like these sites, where it all comes down to monthly structures."
How much you want to do a month is up to you, maybe you could put to X words per month? I have no idea what the market is like for subscription-writing though I must admit. The one thing I would caution is it can turn it into an obligation, which may not be worth only a few bucks. Trying it for a few months to see if you get enough interest to sustain is, time-commitment-wise, pretty 'cheap though!
Also, I still meep at the Twisty Thysty ^..^ Hope you're well!
Yeah, that's the other problem. I would feel a certain pressure about it. The way I do things now, where I make something at my leisure and put it out when I want, is more relaxed. Even if I tried to act or think that I had that same leisurely/relaxed method, but also had a Patreon running... I'd have the pressure in the back of my mind that I'm not doing enough. :P
"You get what you pay for."
-and-
"If you like something, support it, so you'll get more of it."
I'd say on general principle, keep writing and build up a backlog of things for when you hit some serious writers block. If you have enough you think you can pace their release, then releasing something early, like every six months, makes sense.
As far as charging for sequels and not the initial hit, I agree with Galis. A lot of times I've bought something else from an artist or musician, because I liked a free (or pirated) thing of theirs, and I wanted to support them. Some artists, like Aspara/JollyJack, sell amazing comics for $2, they make it up in volume, essentially. Provide as many excuses for people to give you money as you can. :)
Oh, that reminds me of another little wrinkle I had in mind, but forgot to mention, when talking about 'is selling sequels rude': If I'm going to sell sequels, it's probably best to have it already done, when I post the first part. That way, the experience for the reader is like: They read the first part, and while I still have their attention, the end of the story lets them know they can buy more of the same subject matter, more of the same characters.
Of course, if you do it like THAT, people might say 'if you have it all done already, why are you hiding the other part away behind a paywall'
I suppose it just comes down to how it's perceived. JollyJack's pay comics are just big teases, to draw someone in, they leave you wanting more.
My plan of having a more-or-less complete small story [with suitably erotic climax], and then saying 'there's a whole second section to buy' might work against me, since the reader will have already had their fun at that point. :P
It'll really come down to if it all seems like an unfair cut-off point, I suppose. *shrugs*
Totally fine by me. I have used that tactic before. Only in my case i would draw comission images in exchange for games in Steam - that is pretty profitable for my comissioners, considering game prices and my commission prices...
I'm curious what element of my gallery you're a fan of. Then again, I do know you're an admirer of snakes, in general.
Anyway, thank you for the feedback, but I'm not sure how you're relating 'the first one is free' to your commission-for-a-steam-game deal. Maybe you mean like.. the game price was way lower than what the commission price should have been, and you only let people do that once, so that it was like.. they get the very good art-for-game deal at first, and then from then on, they had to pay proper commission prices?
You know. It's always nice to give something to your fans. And free stuff, generosity, gifts and discounts (occasionally of course). And it's not even important to have some strong system behind it.
That's a very good point, about being giving toward one's audience, just in general. :>
You'll see it with other books, after all.
As to how much both in cost and the effort you put in?
I mean... if you want the bucks, you do have to put out enough to keep the patrons interested.
I know what you mean, and that's exactly why I haven't made a Patreon thus far. I don't make THAT much stuff.
~
Speaking of cost versus effort: I really should be selling my 100k+ books for more than I do.
Where's the best place to buy your books?
Also, 'Fitting In' is on amazon, under a slightly shifted title: https://www.amazon.ca/Den-Snakes-Co.....dp/B08Q4MJ2WQ/
Additionally, people unable or unwilling to use either of those two sites could just contact me directly and I could personally send the files in exchange for a transaction on Paypal or a KoFi 'donation.'
On a side note, maybe instead of a subscription model you could try valuing your writing more! It's not like you're an obscure writer that is yet mostly unknown in the community...
You could "upgrade" to 10-12$ for the usual long, 100k words stories, and keep the 5-6$ pricetag for writings of intermediate length, around 50k words.
I believe that 1-2$ is both too little for a literary work of ~50k from you, and too much for a short story. (I like the free short stories 😅 and as a I said, they can always be a good hook for future sequels)
I should have sold Room Party at 6 dollars as well, while it was shorter, as that would have been a good way to begin to have a higher value on something a bit smaller.
Anyway, I never said that I'd be selling a 50k word story for 1-2 bucks, I said 'something shorter' to mean something more like 20-40k. I suppose I was imagining $1 per 20k, in a book. But that would basically be how much Room Party was, already (it was just over 100, and it was 5 bucks). Maybe I'll push up to about $1.50 per 20k, before going to $2 per 20k.
~
If I'm going to sell paid sequels to free shorts, do you have an opinion on what's better:
-You read a free short story and then at the end, you are informed there is already a sequel that's available for purchase. This information would also include a list of the kinks in the second part, since it's already done. [This would be done to direct someone's attention while they're still interested in the thing they just read - but could also seem like I made extra and then didn't share it? Although.. I already make large projects and sell them without releasing the beginning.. until I DO put out free samples. Jeez, I guess I'm just doing the same thing in a different order :P]
-You read a free short story and then at the end, you are informed a paid sequel will be coming at some point. There wouldn't be an exact list of what's going to be in the second part, just a vague 'more of X and Y!' [Avoids the negative implication of the last example, but then the reader may or may not remember to ever come back to check out the other part.]
I think the problem with either thing is that.. the free part may be all that some people want, or all that they feel like they need.
And yeah, you've basically been doing this already but in the wrong order XD 😜
Jokes aside, you can still keep releasing a few more free extracts from a large writing over time to keep the interest high if you want, I just think it would be good to have already a short story available as a "trailer" or "preview" when you put a new big story up for sale.
Thanksss :}===<
"Teaser chapters" have always been a thing, putting the first chapter or two out for free so people can see if it's a book that interests them before they buy. Hook them, get their interest, but also let them get a feel for your writing style. I don't think it's wrong to "sell sequels supplementing submissions" or anything. ^_~
When I realized each of my prior books, I would have the book out for a few days or a week and then I would post a sample of the beginning / the first chapter.
At this point, the first half of both books has been given away for free, via the free samples.
Now I'm over 190k words and counting (got a 6k-ish chapter that will probably be posted today) and started up a second series with about 30k words written so far. >.> And I still feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.
Congrats on your word-count so far, though! :}===<
Setting certain content up for pay-only access is totally okay and perhaps even expected nowadays. Personally, I feel subscription access a cumbersome ordeal (I hesitate to say 'scummy' because so many people utilize that style of platform, but it is how I feel about it). Small sum, single payments are better for written works, anyway: pay for what you want.
So far, you pay-works are extrenuous. Perhaps that's why you're worried about sequels since there is connective content and people would be 'missing out' or feel like 'investment is wasted' because they're not getting the rest of the chips in the bag. Honestly, nobody likes a tease, but it does depend of your model, then. What's important is to not lock away what makes Ame Ame beyond the paywall. The Sond and CTF should still be available for all, just a bit more of it to be had in the buyer's club. (But that's just my perspective as a never-pay penny pincher.)
Also keep in mind that there will always be some upset when any change happens, little or small.
I don't really like subscriptions so much, either. I wish I could just pay once, for a lot of things. I have to be sure I'll get use out of something _every day_, to subscribe to it. [Like getting Disney+, I watched the entire run of the Simpsons, one day at a time, on top of the Marvel shows and whatever.]
So, anyway, that's why I want to keep my stuff being just.. one and done. "A la carte" applies, in this instance, I think.
And yes, that's what I mean, people might feel like they're being cheated out of 'the rest of the story' if I make paid sequels to free first entries.
But still, I'll still constantly be releasing whole scenes from paid books - the scenes that go with the art. And entire sample chapters.
~
Also, heaven forbid! I have no plans to ever sell any Sond material. I have basically zero response to Ames Sond, when I post Sond items, so I never imagined anyone would pay for a Sond story, original or movie-based, or anything.
~
Did you mean to say 'little or small'? Or like 'big or small'? >__>
[Also, thank you, for your little extras on my two projects. <3 ]
I suppose what I mean by 'being a tease' is sort of the crass original meaning: allowing touches but never touchdowns. Less metaphorically, a content creator that always only gives the first part and never the full story. How can a new pair of eyes gauge the value of someone when they can't get a grasp of their total worth before they buy in because it's behind that paywall? To a wallet-clutcher like me, I've come to ignore and forget about those types of creators. I think there are some content creators that provide 'every other' content - say a free piece alternating with a more effort put in (however, that may just be what I'm imagining since I subscribe to 0 people). Also, I see the occasional free & censored image, but I suppose I'm not so much of a horn-dog to bite the bait and pay-to-play for the sight of subway-sandwich censored schlong.
However, you may disregard my opinions, should you wish. I am an anomalous anti-consumer misanthrope. :-P
~
An how DARE you attempt to correct me? :-P I did mean 'big or small', but I messed up the words. In an effort to be as boorish as possible, I will attempt to twist reality to make my mistake correct: little as in 'few cumulative changes', small as in 'magnitude of individual changes'.
[You're welcome for the tip! Now I just need to find some time to catch up and enjoy the smut.]
But yes, I will also be making new things for free [like what I'm currently making].
The fact that this new thing will maybe have a for-money sequel was the worrisome thing, the cause of this whole journal.
Anyway, I appreciate all the feedback you've given! Thank you. :}===<
[I dared and I did correct you, it wasn't just an attempt. The deed was done. Also, you said 'an' instead of 'and' in your correction-response section.]
PS: I love your alliteration, here: 'sight of subway-sandwich censored schlong'
Never worry hard, experiment and don't be afraid to take time to review if things don't go as expected.
[Can't escape those error-finding eyes.]<3
At the very *least* whore out your Ko-fi and turn on those shinies! What's the worst that could happen? I think a tip jar should always be presented as an option, and more jars are probably better.
When it comes to Patreon, if you feel like the little bit of pressure you might get from that could make it not fun for you, then perhaps don't. However, I've seen some creators start one, then pause it periodically, which worked for me as a patron. I patronize creators that consistently create works that give me feelings, and if they paused it and "took a break" once in awhile that actually made me want to stick with them even more, cuz they're sort of doing the work for me. I'm a bit lazy. Also, you're familiar with patreon enough to recall that you can charge "by the item" rather than monthly, right? So, patreon would only charge your patrons as frequently as you post content. Hmm, if you only posted your larger/longer works on patreon, and only once or twice a year, I guess I could see that perhaps not being the best system for it... unless you charged as frequently as your short story premium sequels? Hmm...
As for charging for the short story sequels, the "tease => paywall" would make that work more enticing to me... but maybe I'm just wierd. <<;;;
All in all, your work gives me a lot of positive feeling, and demonstrates mastery in your field of craft. A craftman (craftsnek??) should always get a premium for their work. If you charged, I'd pay, whatever options you present. Seems like a mix of all those options is the way to go, and sounds like that's what you want to do anyway. ;)
~
Oohhh yeah, I forgot that thing about Patreon letting a creator charge per post. Huh! I might have to look into that. So, it's like anyone subbed to me will auto-buy anything I write and publish on there. In a manner of speaking, anyway.
Thank you for calling me a master craftserpent [fleshcrafter, maybe? :}], and your pledge to pay premiums for pythonic paycontent.
~
Oh, also, as for whoring out my KoFi, it's on every page in my gallery, and on my profile page. The 'problem' is that I made it so it's like this: " ko-fi.com / python " which is only text and not a proper link to the page. Why? Because I had heard that kofi had a policy against 18+ sites linking directly to it, so to be safe, I made it so it's not a link, and people have to enter the URL on their own, essentially.
That might be a barrier to anyone who wants to give to me on KoFi, but if someone wanted to, they probably would have gotten around that tiny hurdle, so I doubt that's not the problem / not the reason I haven't had a single KoFi in ages.
But yeah, I'll turn on Shinies. Like you said, why not?
I don't think it is too early for another paid work from you. As you continue to grow as an author, I imagine you will get faster at putting some ideas on paper. (It feels a little weird suggesting you growing as an author because I already see you as a god amongst writers.) So, it seems perfectly fine to put them up for sale whenever you have them done. Why wait to post it went you could be raking in all that sick dough? Lol
As for shorter stories for $1-2, that sounds like a good way to bring in a little more cash and seems only fair if you put a lot of energy into the story. Sometimes, I feel like it is crazy how much literature is posted online completely free. I would be a little sad because I also love taking advantage of all these free stories, but your work is something I would highly consider passing a dollar or two over to see.
For paid sequels to free stories, I can see people getting upset at that, but like others say, there are free game demos with paid full releases out there that aren't considered rude. I wouldn't say it is rude at all. I would suggest that it is more rude of people to get upset at you for charging for a continuation of the story. To go back and provide them with a continuation, isn't that worth a measly dollar or two? If the story was that good, then I would say yes.
I would say go right ahead and turn on the FA shiniest. If people want to tip you, it would be easier for them to do it from your main page instead of going through Ko-fi. I think people like to be lazy and just push a quick button instead of several. That being said, I think the allure of Patreon is you can subscribe to your favorite content creator and forget about it. People seem to live subscriptions because it just auto renewal and they keep getting that sweet delicious content. I hate it because I'm not using the content that often. I've subscribed to Xeylef's Patreon for a month to give some support, but I'd rather not spend that kind of money all the time. I prefer tips, straight and simple. If you were to make a Patreon and I subscribed every month, I would kinda want to get more out of it than just early access, and I feel like Patreon rewards tend to just distract from all the other content that would be getting made and provided for free if the Patreon wasn't around.
Oh wow, that response got longer than I expected lol
Oh my! Me, a god amongst writers? You're much too kind, Taonas! O: (Also, I'm still growing when it comes to trying to be consistently productive)
Thank you for the kind and supportive words when it comes to paying for my work and how paid sequels are permissable!
I agree about Patreon, it seems like creators on there can get bogged down by working on the rewards they've promised to provide, instead of making the sorts of things they'd be making, otherwise. Meanwhile, the idea of a patron to an artist is that the patron just loves the artist's work, and wants to support it without any strings attached.
~
Long or not, late or not, I appreciate you chiming in here. <3