I have said elsewhere that since you can get a drive through marriage with an elvis impersonator the sanctity of marraige is bunk.

I have known religious people who did not agree with homosexuality, but still supported gay rights. Why there aren't the majority I don't know...(But then again they actually read the Bible and other scriptures not included, going so far as to try and learn the original languages they were written in to be able to interpret themselves...)


I just want my auntie to have the right to marry whomever she so chooses, like I do, even if her gf is really butch and has horrible table manners (but we love her anyway).

Augh, I totally agree. I was ranting about this the other day - it's not something that should be put to vote. Basic human rights should not be put to vote. There is no good reason why a straight couple should be able to marry while a gay couple can't.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. And give you an extra thumbs up for the Sneetches remark.

Seriously, I try to avoid all things political, because it just gives me a headache. But this is a simple, clear cut case of one side being right and the other wrong. It is completely depressing that we're still arguing over who is as equal as everyone else based on where we decide to shove out peckers.

For some reason I get all giddy when I make a sort-of obscure reference, for no other reason than it means something to me, and someone else gets it. ^___^

~Dakota adds a Facebook thumbs up to this post, then proceeds to lick Kwan's star jeweled tummy~

stoppit stoppit stoppit ticklish stoppit now NOW NOW
::cackles insanely::

Things you said I agree with:

That it's bad that we're voting on whether gays should be able to marry-- Democracy seems to me extremely pragmatic and effective, but it IS subject to a few key problems. That so many in the U.S. would even consider putting the basic rights of a minority to a majority vote, proves people here are completely effing clueless. It's a front-runner among things that depress me about the species.

That "sanctity of marriage" is bull-- Of course it is. What's astonishing is that anybody takes this baldfaced euphemism for "Christians can't stand it when anybody disagrees with them!" seriously.

They've NEVER been able to frame a coeherent argument about why gay marriage would be bad for anyone. And that anybody takes their views seriously? Bizarro earth.

Ashamed of my country-- Yes. The American people are fucking up a good thing seven ways, no pun intended, to sunday. That we stoop this way, is really, fundamentally, un-american.


Things you said I don't agree with:

I think it's a mistake to "respect" somebody's opinion when that opinion is the basis of real harm to human beings. It's part of a dangerously nihilistic philosophy that goes like this: "All beliefs are OK." Except, some beliefs are better than others. The belief 2+2=4 is better than the belief 2+2=5, and the belief that people deserve equivalent consideration before the law and government is MUCH better than contrary opinions too.

It's a poison spread by guess who, that we have to/ought to respect all beleifs (hint: the institutions making bizarre and completely implausible supernatural claims). I have compassion for my fellow human beings, and reason for dealing with the rest of the universe. Opinions don't deserve respect just because somebody can have them.

And also in this category-- being ashamed of one's country. Yes and no, yanno? Our system is awful, except it's also the best one on the world. Well, close, anyway. I'm NOT in the same boat as all the anarchists (we call them libertarians nowadays) who want to throw out the whole system because it's not perfect yet. Equal treatment under the law will happen, sooner or later. It's just that people having to suffer in the sooner sucks.

I only respect the right to have an opposing opinion. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I respect the opinion itself.

For example, I don't respect the belief that homosexuality is wrong or an abomination or a sin, not by a longshot. I do respect other people's right to believe otherwise, though. As much as it saddens, disappoints, and frustrates me that so many people choose to be close-minded bigoted pawns of a system that needs to denigrate others to feel better about themselves-- I do recognize that they have the right to have those opinions. It doesn't mean that I respect the blatant pushing of those same 'principals' on the rest of the population.

I didn't reeeely figure otherwise, but. If somebody doesn't disagree with you about something, your rightthinkingness might be left obscure. :)

Well, as Furthling said, this country definitely has the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried. As far as civil and minority rights, the United States is decades ahead of the vast majority of the industrialized world. Gay marriage becoming a reality is not a matter of if, but a matter of when.

While we're on the topic of equal treatment under the law, on the other hand of this, 'hate' crimes should not exist. Criminals should be treated as criminals, no matter the motivation. And that's coming from someone who loves to see criminals get the book thrown at them with the force of a magnetic rail cannon.

All that said, I think everyone should be given equal treatment. People that want to live ant let live, should be allowed to do so. People that want to push their views on someone in an extreem matter, should not be allowed to. This applies to extremists on both ends of the spectrum, from the flaming homosexuals rubbing naked on the parade floats to the Fred Phelps morons with thier signs picketing military funerals.

I'm saying that Joe shouldn't be given basic legal rights when others aren't, based solely on orientation

AMEN.


Denying someone basic rights for _________ reason is just wrong, and I hope someday more people will realize that.

Oh! oh! I know!
One finger SALUTE!!!

I have to agree, I'm not gay, or straight, or bi or whatever the term for asexuality is, but I do know that the government screwed us over more than ever before.
If you've got a problem with gay marriage, then get out of the country,
It's up to us as individuals if they wanna spend and who with.

Also, I'm a religious guy. And I know that forcing people to say no to gay marriage when it's up to them is just plain bullcrap.

YAY RANT!!!!

I have a good friend who is super religious, while I don't really care what people do (unless it's like... murder, incest [but even that I'm pretty lax about], pedophilia, bestiality, rape, stealing (except if it's a last resort and out of complete necessity, but even then...), anything that's nonconsensual) and I asked her why she believed that gay people shouldn't be able to get married, and her quote, "Because the bible said one man one woman." Now that I don't understand, a blind faith in the bible. Everything should be under scrutiny and analyzed before you commit yourself is my personal belief. I just don't get why they care what other people do with themselves. You and me Kwan, we will argue with them until they are so uncomfortable that they fold And didn't the bible also say to love and be kind to everyone? hmmmm.... Go! Fight the good fight!!

*pouts* I always seem to catch up to your interesting journals waaaay too late. >>;

Of course I agree with Kwan, wholeheartedly. And thank you for bringing up the point that, if God hates homosexuals so much, he should be plenty able to handle them, himself. ^^ So, Kitty not gonna contest Kwan's arguments...

But I have to wonder whether we're seeing the glass as half empty, or half full. Even with the extremists, and all... and even if the right to marry is being denied currently, the general attitude towards homosexual people in the US is one of tolerance, and even acceptance. I know "tolerance" is not enough, from the standpoint of "justice for all," and that there's a long way to go, to reach an equal status, and there's those icky Westboro pplz... >>;

But in other countries, well... let's just say there's an even longer way to go, and not enough interest to change the status quo. <<;

Of course it doesn't help anyone's cause to compare the US to some backwards hellhole of a country. ^^; But maybe the fact that progress is being made (even if it's slow...) is an encouraging sign, isn't it? The trend seems to be that more and more places are leaning towards legalizing gay marriage. And I know it's infuriating that people have to fight to get something that shouldn't have been denied to them, in the first place. But... if the glass is half empty, there's a trickle pouring into it... ^^

The irony, of course, is that the tide is turning because younger, more tolerant people, are slowly growing into voting age... while older, more "traditional" folks keep checking out... ^^;;;

BTW, when Kwan wrote "I'm sorry, folks, but"... Kitty read that in Rush's voice... Oo