No, size difference is not a ban reason.
As they say, only bodies that anatomically/proportinally look like a child (I think we all know what this means)

This. As the rules change announcement states:
NO, simply making something bigger or smaller does not indicate age.
A small adult -- e.g., a kobold -- is not a child, as I'm sure all of us can appreciate.

Also worth noting:
The only thing that changed as of this update is our internal policy on Pokemon and Digimon. Pokemon and Digimon are now actionable, if presented as children, when they were not in the past.
It can't be much clearer than that. The rules regarding kobolds, otters, chibis, macro, micro, and size difference are all unchanged. The rules change is literally just amending Upload Policy § 2.7, which says "Minors are defined as real or fictional humanoids with a childlike body or younger than 18 years old, and any adolescent animals", to also include underaged Pokemon and Digimon under the umbrella of existing rules.

Quotes sourced from this journal, which is the most recent on-site news update.

Imagine putting effort into the ability to name change.

I cancelled my FA+, I am not paying for the porn police. I want actual updates.

They've been striking Pokemon/Digimon art left and right took down someone's art because the "furniture was too big" but keep enjoying the taste of that boot, boot boy.

I can point out half a dozen images on the first page of my gallery that are 'ambiguous' about their age. So they can fuck all the way off.

flat chested/no breasted kobolds, Zootopia styled semiferals, all qualify for their vagueness.

Thats actually the kink. Like, FA allows so much filth and smut, to each their own pleasure, however they ban art even so when the younger characters are in charge and dominant.

If you check the typical social channels (You know, Twitter, Journals, etc.) you'll find that no, we don't "all know what this means". The fact that there have already been several examples of differing responses by moderators as to what would be allowable and what not doesn't help with the uncertainty.
The entire thing is also such a debacle because of the simple nature of Pokemon and Digimon - many of them are specifically created to look as cute as possible, which means their very proportions are on the child like side. Fucking Pikachu follows a 2-head formula, which you'd usually find if you want to draw a baby. Does that mean if I post anything containing Pikachu, I'm a pedo? Since "simply changing the size" isn't sufficient, do I have to give him arms and legs twice his body length to make sure he's of "adult proportion"? And so forth. Honestly, it's a shit storm to follow, and I don't really blame people for being uncertain whether their Corgi or Kobold-characters are on the chopping block next because they have chibi proportions. PROPORTIONS I SAY!

Tbh especially with such an underfunded group as FA is Im sure it’ll be a bumpy ride and mistakes will be made but honestly overall the policy change seemed pretty warranted. I doubt they’ll start banning anything more than that anytime soon after hesitating on banning this first round for decades.

A bad policy they don't properly enforce is worse than no policy because the lack of consistency means no one has faith in their impartiality.

Do you have another sites to follow you?

Nope. Since I'm not an artist and have no financial stake in advertising I only used this place as an archive.

FA Staff here! NSFW art must show adult proportions. I promise, we do not wanna take down size diff art, we are just closing a loophole where pretty obvious cub porn would get defended regularly with the "Actually, they are 1,000 years old". If it looks like a minor, it will get taken down. If it's an adult, it's fine. If in doubt, submit a ticket for review before July 1, 2023 when the policy takes effect. Let's keep our community safe!

In spite of the recent "Clarifications", this still seems really vague and subjective. All of the controversy seems to be rooted in this. As stated, this appears to open the way for abuse by admins and users, and inconsistent application of these vague "Rules" by admins.

Seems to me that a simple and clear statement is called for. People are freaking the f out.

If we make a mistake, you are welcome to appeal it through the trouble ticket system. The upload policy 2.7 update merely clarifies the original rule: no NSFW depictions of minors. It closes a loophole. Otherwise, it is the same rule as before; FA does not allow or tolerate NSFW depictions of minors, even if they are 1,000 years old.

I sure hope it works out that way. This place is in a panic, as I'm sure you've noticed.

Fully understand the concerns, we are listening and happy to help!

Doubt. Pictures of characters who are not childlike at all have been confirmed via trouble ticket to fall under violation of these new rules.

Species that are drawn closer to on model like Koopas, Yoshis, Birdo, several Poke'mon (obviously). These are not loop-holes being abused by people slipping cub art onto FA. What this is is an abuse of power by staff with a shit-eating grin and canned responses like, "happy to help".

Fact: These rules are arbitrary and up to the speculation of staff and users who will abusively report artwork.

Second fact: You staff continue to ignore/deny this for whatever weird crusade you're on.

Fiction: This was well received and based on community input.

I hear your concern, truly! And this isn't a canned response, I've personally been a member on FA since 2013 (this account from 2016, post hack). We're just trying to keep FA safe for everyone. Our team's doing their best to judge art based on its context, not the species. If you feel a decision was unfair, we encourage an appeal via the ticket system. We're all ears, and want this place to be safe.

Missing the point is not all ears.

How on fucking earth do you manage to miss the point that hard?

You answered literally none of the issues raised.

Sorry for butting in, but I really think you guys should pull back on this. A lot of artists are worried for their future here even after the ticket responses.

Who exactly is being harmed by lines on paper though? Though I don't personally support the type of content that would fall afoul of the policy, whats the logic behind where the line is drawn? Children cannot consent, but neither can animals. I don't morally see a difference between the 1,000 year old loli argument and art that depicts "intelligent" ferals. If we're basing it on real world logic, what of art that depicts snuff, murder, or rape? Do those belong in a "safe place"?

How hard you ignored the issues baffles me. You claim to try to make FA safe, but the danger is very clear, the staff is the most dangerous of all. You can hurt an artists career based on "if it feels like a cub" regardless of other context that says otherwise, you are taking your personal opinions, over hard facts.

Seriously, where is the danger? Tell us, what is threatening the safety of furries. I am not bothered by Pikachu dick, you know what bothers me on FA? Hyper scat I find appalling. Thanks for the safe that we are never getting.

All this effort into a policy, yet how much progress into making a keyword blacklist feature for FA?

I think I share everyone's concern on the grounds that the rule is too vague, and the problem is the staff themselves predominately those who can be untrustworthy and allow their biases to come into play. Though you may be one of the exceptions, the same cannot be said for the other members of the FA staff.

For example you may follow some possibly objective mindset on what is and isn't considered childlike, but someone else wouldn't care and just ban the person because they think it's something else. There's no strict way in which the staff have to act, which can lead to abuse.

If the staff had strict, objective rules on how they conduct their duties this wouldn't ever be an huge issue. This policy was an attempt at closing a loophole, but all it did was raise even more concerns.

Weaponization of this by users is also a potential issue, and would be a problem for artists, users, and admins.

Oh yeah it's not to dissimilar with twitter over the last few years, vague rules that are done at the discretion and bias of the admins and bad faith actors.

Define "Safe" to me cause all I am hearing is the same copy paste response that a customer service rep says.

As someone who has that body type in reality, hearing FA pull the same bullshit that Australia did is pretty shitty. Fuck this site and its staff both.

"Keep it safe for everyone"....

I call BS of the highest order, and then some. You know, it, we know it, so why pretend otherwise. If you wanted this to be a SAFE PLACE, you would focus on other areas besides a subjective world view based on if a character art looks too young or not, and totally ignoring the artists input on the matter when a character has been established for decades to be of age, they're just short.

Bullshit. Since this new policy that absolutely nobody wanted went into effect, all you've done is strike art of adult Pokemon/Digimon/small species. You took out like a quarter of Narse's gallery and have been ticketing people for the furniture being too big. Fuck you guys and fuck your shithole website.

Is there anyway we could just stop these changes from going forward? Some kind of appeals process the community could take as a whole?

I heard from the FA discord that this came about from feedback submitted on trouble tickets. But we weren't asked as a whole if we wanted this changed.

But it's clear a majority of people did not want this. It's just kind of upset >everyone<. Surely the admin teams see this.

The only way I think you guys could speak is by stopping fa+ subs.

I'm seeing what "The Document" says when they release it, hopefully on Monday, and I'm going from there.

Regardless of whatever the document says, lets think for a moment. All this effort in this policy, the owner deleting his own artwork, spending time doing all of this, while 0 effort or work in improving the website and adding features.

We could:
A) Work on a policy that targets Pokemon/Digimon porn that wasn't bothering anyone.
Or
B) Work on a blacklist keyword system so people don't stumble into hyper dragon diarrhea porn.

They had a choice, and boy, did they pick the wrong one.

I refuse to support that.

There's some rumors going around, like this is something the datacenter they use if forcing the change. So I want to hold off judgement until then.

I've been on the FA discord "discussing" this with the admins on there since the issue popped up. But that's basically where we are now. If the document they're releasing is stupid, we have firmer ground to push against.

They had a chat with something like 10k replies where everyone was just super pissed about this. No one is happy about this, and really the only thing they should do is walk this back, but it is what it is.

But this is why I don't only post to one website, I feel like someone kind of has to dump everything everywhere and hope for the best.

Edit: the admins also confirmed that there are NDAs they signed with the datacenter, so they might not be able to say that's why they're making this change, for legal reasons.

Doing this for a data center is completely false, that is a complete lie. Here is how I know it is a lie.

I personally know the guy that helped move FA into a new center, he was the only person that helped Dragoneer do it too. He even showed me FA on his phone, and the old FA drives he wiped, indirectly he deleted FA and all the porn.

I get around in the furry community.

They are definitely NDA's but that is probably other agreements like spending and data usage.

Here is what I think is going on, Dragoneer has a circle of friends he listens too, unfortunately that friend group is full of shit people that try to push their morals like Jehovah Witnesses and Dragoneer will do whatever makes him look better because his image is utterly destroyed.
I truly think he didn't expect such a massive negative backlash, nor did his mods.

Anyways, I will be doing an art stream raffle for anyone that cancels their FA+ membership later this week! You may lose your profile banner, but at least with me you get a sketch of your fursona.

Not that I am surprised after the presentation/ memes of Dragoneer when the site would go down and ask for donations.

"Anyways, I will be doing an art stream raffle for anyone that cancels their FA+ membership later this week!"

This is the most based sentence I have heard all year.

https://www.furaffinity.net/journal/10557670/

i could get behind that B selection. there is some furry stuff out there i would rather avoid and Hyper scat or scat in general i could live without and would rather avoid, same with a few other things that are Hell nos in my book.

I'd imagine this is like any other company would be:
Companies often do stupid stuff and the only way to force them to stop is to speak with your wallet and often times that works, companies that do listen can bounce back, companies that don't eventually get so bad they could die by a 1000 cuts.

Do you also want to offer some "thoughts and prayers" while you're at it? XD

Except your appeal processes are painful and tedious. A person can slam characters are 18, backstories, etc into images but all it takes is one staff to go "HUrRRr, head to big, looks loli, or shota. HURRRR DELETE-BAN!!!!" based all on their own personal subjective view. It's nonsense, this is pushing people further from the platform, and the constant body type shaming is getting out of control. So it's fine to be fat furs, but there can't be any small short furs, or petite furs?

Yep, tired of FA's body shaming policies for adult characters. My girlfriend ended up leaving recently because her characters resemble herself rl, and she' in her late 30's, barely over 5ft tall, and looks like a petite teen with wide hips. Yeah.... so by the new 'rules' she's banned from posting her character any more because of a stupid subjective view of visual perception.

Also it doesn't help Nintendo threatened to sue FA for all the Nintendo related porn xD

So what are we supposed to do? We leave, and find somewhere else that wont cater to twitter mobs.

By these new rules, even Judy Hopps is banned in NSFW format.... like... come on....

My FA+ went into funding the porn police.

I was told actual improvements to the website with my FA+ like keyword blacklisting, name changes among other things. Give me my months money back.

If they don't I'd look at charge backs.

Just to clairfy there was a conversation someone put where a staff member told them their art featuring on model koopa-troopas and yoshis would be bannable, but supposedly from what someone else mentioned too: a Kobold would not be.

This just goes back to the point: the guidelines are far, far too vague and even the staff seem like they can't agree on what is and what isn't ok.

This is a shame - I very much enjoy the pieces you post, ideas, and characters. Such a pain that these things keep changing, making it harder to work with.

Seems like a very unclear and subjective policy. Certain animal species like otters can appear younger than they are. Then you have characters in media who look young but aren't, like Lexington from Gargoyles, I guess that's banned now too? And what about dwarves? It's a very dumb policy. I wouldn't blame you for leaving in the slightest. Would miss seeing your commission art but small price to pay for standing up for what you believe is right.

I agree with ya, these rule changes are getting to be a bit nonsensical.

Yeah, everyone I've talked to is *so happy* about this change. Just what everyone wanted, more utterly subjective witch-hunts, oh boy!

Best recommendation: self hosting on a small thing like a raspberry pi , as a simple filesystem gallery is really easy to maintain.
Or maybe go to Pixiv, who, as located in Japan, have an earthy view of the entire discussion.
I recommend selfhosting, as you can then easily add and manage files and only need to post links.
Stuff like rule34 and e621 can then be used for images expecting high traffic.

I hear you can use Postybirb to transfer your galleries quick and efficient.

I watch over 3k people on this site (most are probably dead accounts that no one put out an update to let people know) But I have yet to see a single journal praising this new "Update".

i agree with you Kahmal, and Skoon, Where is : ((This was well received and based on community input nonsense? Where did this fictional garbage information come from?))

Becuase nearly every post i have read since this update has been posted has been negative across the board! and hundreds of artists are potentially threatened by this! Not to mention nearly every discord server and telegram chat that im in that deals with art is on potential Nuke warnings becuase of this how is any of these rules FINE!))

i agree with Kahmal, Partran, and Skoon here this is a fallout76 accident waiting to happen anybody remeber that tirefire, or Prefixed nightmare fuel that was Sonic before the community changed him. and im just waiting for sombody to hit the big red consol button after turning the two keys.

Personally myself after all this im moving sites if this place goes into full out nuke mode.

I saw 1, and it was such a dogshit take I unwatched them. https://www.furaffinity.net/journal/10555632

I'm not surprised the guy who announced the update was the same guy who defended Zaush.

The same guy has a history of hypocrisy, and it's sad too.

He's the Elon Musk of the furry fandom

Why would you be targeted? Your characters are adults...

Some of whom look ambiguously aged because of the style they're drawn in.

Could just put a disclaimer stating that they are above the age of 18...

What I've done with my character Foxglove :)

Postybirb helps with uploading art enmasse.

But i don't think any of your art will get targeted.

You can alweys move to sofurry , its better website in every way including staff.

If you do decide you want to re-upload on a different site, I could help out, I don't mind tedious work, it's the kind of stuff I get paid for!

Yep, tired of FA's body shaming policies for adult characters. My girlfriend ended up leaving recently because her characters resemble herself rl, and she' in her late 30's, barely over 5ft tall, and looks like a petite teen with wide hips. Yeah.... so by the new 'rules' she's banned from posting her character any more because of a stupid subjective view of visual perception.

Also it doesn't help Nintendo threatened to sue FA for all the Nintendo related porn xD