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Musings: The Youthfulness of the Fandom
a year ago
On the eve of my 27th birthday, I find myself thinking on something that's been on my mind a lot over the past few months, and what led to the creation of my new bat, Karro.
Now: This is not me calling anyone's artistic direction out in any capacity! Everyone is entitled to what they choose to do. This is really just scraps of thought I'm gluing together into something that's been on my mind for the sake of discussion.
And on another note... I'm only 27. I'm still definitely a youngster myself compared to some of my friends, x3
So again, just take this as an opinionated ramble. Not some soapbox I'm trying to preach from.
That being... the fandom is incredibly biased towards more youthful looks.
Now, that's where I started out when I joined the fandom. I got my first OC, the original all grey Reuben and Ruby Telokey, right as I turned 18. I wanted them to look young and youthful because... well, that's where I was at the time!
But time marches on. And despite my many attempts to redesign the character over the years, the detachment I felt was very palpable. The character was an idealized 18 year old me, and try as I might I couldn't really get that little kernel out of the character.
Then I made Louness with the intent of being a character I can relate with more. Her timeless nature really sat well with me! Just this... big dork of a dragoness that's very much meant to invoke the air of an older, more mature woman. The little freckles of scales under her eyes were essential to me in that respect. Without them, she looked a little too perfect.
Still, it set a nice precedent for me! Sort of... thinking ahead with character design! Making a persona I can connect with still even as I get older. ^^
But then I got to making Karro...
And I must say, I was not prepared for the pushback I got. XD
I wanted to move away from the young and youthful look that Reuben and Ruby had with Karro. I wanted him to have a scruffier look. Less idealized a body. I wanted to shoot for a mid to late 30s look for him.
Through the iterations of the character though, as I was sharing the WIPs, I got an odd amount of negative feedback to the angle.
Granted: That doesn't matter as much to me as it used to.
I let popular demand dictate Louness’s first design, and I was unhappy with it. I still share the older design around sometimes when talking about the design process, where she did look more thin and youthful, and I still get the occasional reaction from some people who ask why I didn't just go with her first design. And it's just because I didn't want Louness to be just a young, hot dragoness. I wanted her to be imperfect. But I digress,
I didn't want Karro to be designed by popular demand. I first looked at Stolas from Helluva Boss as a point of reference for the first iteration, but for the second and third iterations, I looked at Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom's Rauru.
The latter two iterations are where I started getting a lot of pushback. Just a lot of "well don't make him look too old", "I think he'd look better without the facial fur", and the very conflicting "I liked your other bat more",
It was during this time I was on the hunt for a lot of refs to help facilitate the design phase. And it was hard finding, like... "aged" character designs. Seeing how people drew anthros to indicate age. There just isn't a lot of that around.
Don't get me wrong it's absolutely there. But in the circles I tend to hang in, it's so hard trying to find an artist willing to actually show that age on a character!
I guess all this came to a head with a dear friend of mine fretting about how old he's getting lately, despite being the same age as me.
And... I get it.
Getting older in this fandom does feel a bit like an... unwelcome action to the overall aesthetics of the fandom at large. But then, I don't think that's really exclusive to furries. It's practically everywhere. In my research for my essay I got y'alls help with a while back, so many young people think that their lives are over after their mid twenties. Heck, I bought into that myself for a while! Told myself if I hadn't made something of myself by age 22, then I should just... give up.
But I haven't given up! Tomorrow, I turn 27, and I'm still planning to keep going!
I guess that's why I'm taking this desire to age up my characters so seriously. It makes me giddy as all heck to see my body type reflected in anthro designs, and now, it makes me just as happy seeing folks who aren't afraid to portray themselves with, like... older looking characters.
I guess the advice I want to leave folks with is: don't be afraid about getting older. It's so easy to look at the numbers between where you are and where it might end. It's so easy to worry about losing a lot of the youthful charm you've prided yourself on (like my own athleticism), and wondering what you'll have left,
But you all are worth so much more than that! We all age, and that's okay. And I'm looking forward to what life has in store for me for the years ahead. For better or worse, I know I'll be okay.
Thank y'all for reading! God Bless,
Note: It's worth noting, this journal is not directed at the fandom/culture at large and their views of age! I get it!
This was more spurred by the strange reactions I've gotten from folks over my own decisions/coping mechanisms to accept my own aging x3
Now: This is not me calling anyone's artistic direction out in any capacity! Everyone is entitled to what they choose to do. This is really just scraps of thought I'm gluing together into something that's been on my mind for the sake of discussion.
And on another note... I'm only 27. I'm still definitely a youngster myself compared to some of my friends, x3
So again, just take this as an opinionated ramble. Not some soapbox I'm trying to preach from.
That being... the fandom is incredibly biased towards more youthful looks.
Now, that's where I started out when I joined the fandom. I got my first OC, the original all grey Reuben and Ruby Telokey, right as I turned 18. I wanted them to look young and youthful because... well, that's where I was at the time!
But time marches on. And despite my many attempts to redesign the character over the years, the detachment I felt was very palpable. The character was an idealized 18 year old me, and try as I might I couldn't really get that little kernel out of the character.
Then I made Louness with the intent of being a character I can relate with more. Her timeless nature really sat well with me! Just this... big dork of a dragoness that's very much meant to invoke the air of an older, more mature woman. The little freckles of scales under her eyes were essential to me in that respect. Without them, she looked a little too perfect.
Still, it set a nice precedent for me! Sort of... thinking ahead with character design! Making a persona I can connect with still even as I get older. ^^
But then I got to making Karro...
And I must say, I was not prepared for the pushback I got. XD
I wanted to move away from the young and youthful look that Reuben and Ruby had with Karro. I wanted him to have a scruffier look. Less idealized a body. I wanted to shoot for a mid to late 30s look for him.
Through the iterations of the character though, as I was sharing the WIPs, I got an odd amount of negative feedback to the angle.
Granted: That doesn't matter as much to me as it used to.
I let popular demand dictate Louness’s first design, and I was unhappy with it. I still share the older design around sometimes when talking about the design process, where she did look more thin and youthful, and I still get the occasional reaction from some people who ask why I didn't just go with her first design. And it's just because I didn't want Louness to be just a young, hot dragoness. I wanted her to be imperfect. But I digress,
I didn't want Karro to be designed by popular demand. I first looked at Stolas from Helluva Boss as a point of reference for the first iteration, but for the second and third iterations, I looked at Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom's Rauru.
The latter two iterations are where I started getting a lot of pushback. Just a lot of "well don't make him look too old", "I think he'd look better without the facial fur", and the very conflicting "I liked your other bat more",
It was during this time I was on the hunt for a lot of refs to help facilitate the design phase. And it was hard finding, like... "aged" character designs. Seeing how people drew anthros to indicate age. There just isn't a lot of that around.
Don't get me wrong it's absolutely there. But in the circles I tend to hang in, it's so hard trying to find an artist willing to actually show that age on a character!
I guess all this came to a head with a dear friend of mine fretting about how old he's getting lately, despite being the same age as me.
And... I get it.
Getting older in this fandom does feel a bit like an... unwelcome action to the overall aesthetics of the fandom at large. But then, I don't think that's really exclusive to furries. It's practically everywhere. In my research for my essay I got y'alls help with a while back, so many young people think that their lives are over after their mid twenties. Heck, I bought into that myself for a while! Told myself if I hadn't made something of myself by age 22, then I should just... give up.
But I haven't given up! Tomorrow, I turn 27, and I'm still planning to keep going!
I guess that's why I'm taking this desire to age up my characters so seriously. It makes me giddy as all heck to see my body type reflected in anthro designs, and now, it makes me just as happy seeing folks who aren't afraid to portray themselves with, like... older looking characters.
I guess the advice I want to leave folks with is: don't be afraid about getting older. It's so easy to look at the numbers between where you are and where it might end. It's so easy to worry about losing a lot of the youthful charm you've prided yourself on (like my own athleticism), and wondering what you'll have left,
But you all are worth so much more than that! We all age, and that's okay. And I'm looking forward to what life has in store for me for the years ahead. For better or worse, I know I'll be okay.
Thank y'all for reading! God Bless,
Note: It's worth noting, this journal is not directed at the fandom/culture at large and their views of age! I get it!
This was more spurred by the strange reactions I've gotten from folks over my own decisions/coping mechanisms to accept my own aging x3
for real though, big fan of Karro, and big fan of what you're saying here! Everyone gets older, and that's not anything to be afraid or ashamed of; every day can bring new possibilities and new chances no matter whether you're 18 or 78!
The idolized point in people lives always tends to be when they where younger, be it 'childhood' back when responsibilities weren't nearly as ever present, or early to mid adulthood when there seemed to be (for a decent portion of people) more open roads to travel and more energy in the body to do so. The unfortunate march of time is that age dwindles the bodies capability. It lowers the ceiling that you can reach, and lowers the floor for what you can do right now.
So in fiction, youth is often what tends to be focused on, as youth is what gives the most freedom of expression. If an individual starts being 40, 50, 60+ especially, there's no longer that freedom that inherently comes with such a number. Suddenly it's expected you likely have a job, you have a friend group, you have achieved and done goals. Your body has begun to falter, and you've started to move past ideals that you might have set for yourself. You don't have the capacity to be certain things anymore, your general capability slows, and what you're allowed to enjoy continues to dwindle as the youth below you continues to propel it forward past what you're able to keep up with.
It's the continued plodding on of life, but it's something that fiction, while able to deal with such topics, doesn't have to. Basically any form of fiction locks a character in place time wise forever. They are as capable as they wish to be, with never a reason to drop off. And that's always an alluring prospect, all the way back since human creation. The idea of the 'ever present' individual, that can just continue to pursue the things they want to and improve and get better at them until the point THEY choose to stop is a tantalizing prospect, and it's something life does not let you lead, so it tends to exist the most in fiction.
There's also, to circle to the 'furrdom' at large, the fact that this place inherently is born as a place of escape. Everything here is born from people wanting more out of something, be it life, friendships, or just the ability to be something they are not. That will inherently lead to people idolizing forms that fully exemplify that, which ends up being young forms that can 'take all the punishment' in stride and keep on going. It's a lot easier to take a blow in 'combat' and recover from it with a young body, verses one that has aged and a single fracture will take you out for months.
So with the general 'interest' of the furrydom combined with it's purpose, it's naturally not really going to push toward characters being older. Maybe a little bit, show some more maturity, hit ones mid thirties and enjoy ones self at that point. But you don't see characters tend to progress past that point cause that's not what the person behind them wants. They want to just keep being able to enjoy the content that happens here, they want their character, if not themselves, to be able to enjoy what they no longer have the capacity to. I know of a good few individuals that are 50's+ behind the scenes with characters that are still rocking their 20's, and it's just the nature of the fact that it's just more fun (for a vast majority) to be able to step back in to a time and age of full capability and one's 'peak', persay, verses pushing a character past that point just for the sake of accepting it ones self.
ALLL that being said, it's up to you how you push our characters forward. I know it's been a hell of a thought process in my own head, debating if I'm going to follow the trend of just 'keeping everything the same' or if I will try and 'age up' characters as I go. I figure I have until my 40's before I really need to start thinking about that, 50 at the absolute latest. But, if you want to start trying to do it now? If that helps you accept yourself and what you truly are going through in life, and to not shy away from it? Go for it, more power too you! Anyone who has issue with that are in full denial themselves, and the fact you're accepting it scares them and makes them want you to stop it.
I personally have no immediate issue either way, I'm just still at the point where I'm very into 'young mature forms', with idealized proportions that push past the realm of reality to the point of fantasy. I look at Em not because I expect a women irl to match those capabilities at my age, but because those proportions and general being are appealing to me. And it will be up to me if that ever changes, not anyone else. (Is the main reason Glorya has become so interesting since her 'update' to, becoming an ever present being like Louness, and having Em become part that herself while already being a dragon, it just fits the mold of effectively the 'elf' type character. An individual that gets the privilege of time not screwing them over, and being able to grow and improve and learn perpetually without their body giving up on them.)
So at the end of my OWN word salad, I just say you do you. The people that are going to try and back talk the idea of it are entirely not fully capable of accepting the passage of time themselves, and are frightened of the reminder of it by what you are doing. They will be forced to face it at some point though, and who knows, maybe your character will help that process along. Either way, it isn't your problem, it's theirs, and they have to come to grips with it.
Ohh, and happy Birthdayyy ; v;
I was 34 last month and been in the furry fandom a long time. Sure enough, when I started, a lot of my characters were young and bright-eyed (and bushy-tailed too, I had a fondness for squirrels then), and then I began to be more 'serious' and moved to felines primarily, my lynx becoming my mainstay and who most people remembered me as.
After a few years I felt a change in me too, and I attached onto one of my dragons - a slim and shy guy rather than the confident smug cat. Another thing I noticed was that the majority of my female characters were growing 'thiccer', becoming more motherly. Then it began to change with my guys - now almost the majority of my characters are advanced in age. Some people like it, some people don't (and it's hard not to feel hurt when people say that).
I'd just never really attributed it to my own advance in age, but that's mostly because I didn't think I was 'old enough' to find guys with a bit of salt and pepper or ladies with mum-bodies attractive. It was all just a fetish. I wonder now if it is my subconscious working.
And from what little I do know of the real life porn industry, it's the same thing. 'Older women' are only good for fetish porn. Maybe that's what's guilting us over it.
And happy birthday! May you have a year of all your characters being embarrassingly bondage-d.
Ha! I definitely get that notion of "Your life is over after your mid twenties!" Luckily around your early thirties, you als stop caring about that, so that's something to look forward to :3
But yeah, thanks for the in-depth thoughts on that subject. You certainly have a lot of valid points here, a lot of things which also ring true for my own designs. And while I've been making an attempt to utilize more older characters in my own works (disregarding all the immortals which don't age), I realize that I have no idea how to visually portray age on my characters... I myself am quite "guilty" of gravitating a lot towards the younger looks on charcters. Even Doc Nifty who's canonically in her fifties looks like freshly hatched kobold-chic...
Certainly something I myself need to work on and improve upon. So thanks for shining a light on it!
Easy there, they're only in their early-to-mid 30s XD
Although, most of my characters are around the 20s because prefer them that way.
But you should make ocs the way YOU feels better about, they're yours after all XD
Also, happy bday! ^^
Is this why you said that thing about my characters looking old and young at the same time?
And I think about this stuff all the time, esp. given the fact some of those who inspired me in the first place have already passed on and I need to get off my aged old ass and do something before its my turn lol