oh yikes that must be so frustrating to get accused of AI. It is getting harder and harder and tell. :/ AI is the worst thing to ever happen. Its so sad.

There are services that help with detecting but all of them recognise my work as “human-made” and I get strikes with for reason and no explanation :/

You continue to create what you love, no wall should be too thick, too tall or too hard to prevent you from what you love doing ^^

<3

Sad to hear you dealing with this, you have the drawings, and as an artist, i can verify that your art is real, but i guess having detailed steps for it is not enough.

Thank you! And yes, things are getting tough

В связи с последними событиями вполне возможно что на ФА будут большие перемены, если он вообще не закроется...

что за события?

Создатель ФА умер

Основатель ФА ж продал сайт когда-то там неск лет назад.

Откуда инфа?

В обявлениях было.

He then bought it back.

Thanx for the info.

Эх, да. Драгонир был очень душевный, всегда помогал разобраться в ситуации. Вроде не знала человека лично, а тоскливо

Согласен(

I never once thought your work was AI generated. I don't know what the moderators are playing at. Especially when I reported a real AI artist months ago and they told me the proof was "inconclusive". Absolute nonsense!

Its Not uncommon for some mods to harass artists for drawing in a styles they personally don't like. " we think its ai" is just the latest excuse they use. before that they would use the "this character looks underaged" excuse

So FA reports require some “proof” to make a strike? I wonder what proof was submitted in my case then o0

From what I've seen, they don't require proof.

I've seen people suspended on the report of a user or suspicion alone more than once.

That seems to only happen to legit artists. AI generators always seem to require hard evidence in order to have any action taken upon them.
It's a two tier moderating system on this site. AI users are innocent until proven guilty while real artists are guilty until proven innocent.

I can't be sure of that either way. The moderation here is too opaque for that.

I'm just talking from personal experiences. They are more than welcome to prove me wrong.

Им не нужен пруф, что это "работа ИИ", хуже того, они могут спокойно без доказательств снести пол галереи, как случилось с одной художницей (ladyshalirin) около года назад, им было достаточно того, что один чел кричал "волки-волки". Отвратительно то, что они делают это, опираясь лишь на слова, и что именно художнику нужно доказывать свою правоту, а не тому, кто разбрасывается жалобами. Причём приходится разбираться с этим пост-фактом, когда урон художнику уже нанесён, ибо никто не приходит в ЛС "так и так, мы получили жалобу, для общего спокойствия предоставьте пруфы, если возможно".

Подобное заставляет с тревожностью относиться к некоторым своим работам, которые могут посчитать "сгенерированными", ибо ясно как день, что защиты от администрации тут не дождёшься, раз они вначале стреляют, а лишь потом спрашивают

Did I miss something? O-o

Iskra's been pretty consistant, never really thought AI was part of the flow at all, not that it's a bad thing. AI can be a tool, and if the artist trains on their own art... Cool! That's an ethical use.

AI generations can be an inspiring as well as any pictures you find in internet, but all the situation gets ridiculous. Consequences for artists, consequences for society: fakes are now extremely easy to produce and confuse people in social and political situations too

Kinda shamed that AI not only steals any artist's art styles, but also managed to make people to discredit the original artist's arts for "LOOKING" like the fake AI copies

We as society are heading towards nothing but downward spirals

This is getting crazy

FA need to go over disputes manually first instead of using what comes off as an automatic process. A bit ironic if that's the case as FA's policies forbid AI. IMO it would be reasonable on FA's side to go over the process properly and allow artists and commissioners alike to verify the art being genuine.

Yeah. I’m angry that my work was removed like that, I didn’t even read all the comments before it was. They could suspend it until I submit a proof or something

Will FA change and stop punishing first to then let the accused defend themselves ? No. Probably never, so long as they are the top furry art gallery.

As much as I love FA and it’s conservative functionality, I wish some things would be fixed :c

Did you contact the mods? Last I checked they are pretty good at reviewing the proof and removing the mistaken strike

Keep up the great work!

Yeah, I sent a dispute ticket and hopefully they'll check it out soon

Okay good luck!

Thanks!

That's good. This is what I was going to ask as well. You'll be okay.

They really should change the way they handle this.

Thank you. Maybe I should have kept it private and not make a fuss but let this be my tiny protest. We need changes here. Getting troubles for no reason is stressful :<

Don't I know it! I just recently got over a week's suspension for basically nothing. They rescinded, it, but the damage and stress had already been done. I sent an email to contest it, but didn't even get a reply until over two days after the end of the suspension.

If they contacted people before suspending them, the whole thing could have been avoided.

I'm assuming you have already submitted a ticket about it? It sucks that you got hit by it

That was the first thing I did ^^

Maybe I should have kept it private, not make a journal but let this be my tiny protest. We need some changes here. Getting troubles for no reason is stressful ><

^.^ I hope it works out for the best and we do get the suggestion added to be able to dispute

i love that piece. too bad people are idiots.

:<

Oh dear, that's quite an accusation. When I first saw that piece, AI spam was the last thing that came to mind, because I recognise a talented artist when I see one. I in good faith expect any artist with a shred of talent and integrity to post work that comes from the heart. Your work is amazing, keep up the good work.

Ahh thank you so very much!
Sadly AI is getting harder and harder to recognise, we need some good detection instruments to be developed as well

https://youtu.be/e35BU1eB_5k?si=mGR.....Q_IAk&t=17

this was inevitable and obvious result of artists demanding exclusion of ai art while using digital tools to help them create.
any artist with a set and stable artstyle, that is using digital tools to do it, will end up indestinguishable from a ai image generator, to any algorythem. a distinction that will get ever narrower, while the scope extends to developing artists.

especially if they produce a dozen alts of any main image and are building their career and reputation on drawing fanart. because that increases the number of similar samples.

Maybe AI generated art should just stop. Regardless of it's potential uses, right now it's being used to steal the time, dedication, and talent artists have put into their craft, with no intention of giving so much as a pittance to the artists whose work is scraped. Despite the fact that AI generators ABSOLUTELY NEED artists to keep putting out work for them to scrape, because we know what happens when these generators only have other AI art to scrape. They 'optimize' themselves into terrifying oblivion.

maybe fan-art should just stop. Regardless of it's potential uses, right now it's being used to steal the time, dedication, and talent artists have put into their craft. ref animation artists.

maybe photoshop should just stop. Regardless of it's potential uses, right now it's being used to steal the time, dedication, and talent artists have put into their craft. ref physical media artists

maybe landscape photography should just stop. ref painters

ride the wheel or it will ride you with the weight of millions of its passengers.

it wont go away, it will become standard.
and along the way, it will become indistinguishable to man or machine.

Nah, maybe AI art should stop stealing from real artists and humans and people such as yourself should stop trying to act like it hasn't caused harm.

just because you have no worth greater than a machine doesn't mean everyone else does

you're free to go away if you have nothing to contribute, but no one else is obligated to

people will continue to build places where people have value, whether you continue to exist or not

you are the farrier jumping on the tracks to wrestle the train.
even pre covid more art was made in a day than one person could look at in a week.
ai is just going to democratise the process like any other tool that made something easier.

no it's going to spam dumb noise into the net just like the noise of your bad take

https://www.bloodinthemachine.com/p.....ing-creativity
"democratise"

So holding a pen and learning to guide it is... undemocratic. Even poor people are good artists. Non-doers just feel entitled. Demand the fruits of someone else's time-investments. If we want to actually "democratise access to art skills", we could fund education and fight for fairer compensation of workers. Instead of celebrating human exploitation as throwaway data-cattle via for example – CEO & IT devs who earn a multiple of what we artists earn. :) All this misanthropic, ressource burning, age-of-disinformation consumerist, self-entitled bullshit just for some fancy entertainment deepfakes.

if it makes you feel better both ceos and it devs are currently on the chopping block queue for ai replacment. as a ceo sallery and bonuses will soon be far more expensive than an ai that wont be evasaive with answering questions, and coders are currently being sacked in the thousands by middle managers flailing to justify their jobs.

if ubi or an analogue doesnt become common in the next 20 years society will face utter ruin. on account of the realthy wont be able to aquire wealth from a population that has none. already amazon has automated stores, and household stores across the 1st world are replacing staff with self service.

to my view, determining a human value by their income and their product has been a trap. when it will be imperitive in the near future to value humans by their capability self determination.

ai will of course first benefit large corpos, the same as computerisation, but that is not a situation that will hold. consumer lever tools and the hardwear to run it will end up in the hands of users. this is an inevitability. and in that inevitability is access for many more interested, to produce high detail art.

the overton window is moving for more than just art, and it is very likely to be a greater calamity to established society than industrialisation ever was. because this time the tools will be able to do even those new things currently described as 'only a human could do it'. and thats just the causal issues. the ethical issues of the first digital sentients create is something even the most creative sci-fi writers and futurists only skirt around.

Agree with the general outlook. But we are facing very real, graspable violations right now and I just don't agree with defeatist compliance and waiting for things to sort themselves magically out. GenAI deserves massive blacklash and better pro-human creator stance by new laws.

as an ideal there would be control to allow adaptation without the now inevitable disruption to society from various uses. as an observation, humans live by "first they came" and denial it will impact them. declaring new technology illegal has rarely worked. even in the case of weapons tech being denied to the public, it has still been licenced to corporations.

i think you will agree having generative ai legally restricted to corporations long term is far from the optimum outcome. given they often clearly want to shut down what they dont control. effectivly granting the establishment total control of expression, let alone art, through sheer volume. from set images to games to film.

corpo news has decades of manipulation of how events are described. the speed ai could do this at while using psychology to make its point most convincing concern me. and i havnt seen a solution to it that isnt the pocket V.I. depicted in sci-fi books.

there is also the psychological control/manipulation already being built into microtransaction games and the effects of marrketing to encourage brand zombies. with ai 'optimising' this to the exclusion of all others, i cant see it as particularly pro-human in the long term.

I hate to admit it, but I can’t say you are wrong. Those are just cold facts

heh. for better and worse, its what i do.
one way or another the overton window of art is getting another brick through it.

Rn I'd rather live with false accusations than drowning in a deepfakes infested bot shit hole.

thats a filtering problem taken as a causal system. limits on daily uploads to prevent flooding and notifications that image d is too similar to image a, b, and c with a capcha are both solutions that have existed for years.

false accusations also ruin lives and reputations to the point of causing suicide and murder.
those false accusations are innocent people who may be getting their only income destroyed. and human history is full of evidence that making false accusations socailly acceptable absolutly gets abused by governments.

Oh don't be mistaken, I am aware of this. I still rather proof my "pureness" or defend someone else's than drop the stigma around AI parasitism.

and i would rather not have :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOpGnwYP8PY

Cool, I still won't drop the AI stigma.

no, ai generations should remain excluded and they aren't indistinguishable because the process isn't the same

ai generations are a statistical prediction, they're the output of a math equation

art is something created from the application of practiced concepts and intuitive learning

ai-bros want to destroy artists and the value of humans inherently, because they don't like that regular people can make something valuable and then be excluded from that value, because being unable to capture all the value of human creation and turn it into money for them and not the person who created that value bothers them

it isn't a coincidence that after nfts failed because everyone hated them this ai generation stuff appeared

value of humans and value of what they do have always been seperate and negotiable.
and given you baselessly acused my of having less value than a machine, your hysterionics communicate that you are projecting your own prejudices.

you've already admitted you don't have value why should anyone value what you've said

On regular sites you just get dogpiled by offended AI consumerists. :')
Feels so good to come to FA and read comments with human self-respect.

This is sad. So many people have become so comfortable with accusing artists of using AI. Here's the thing....not all high quality art is AI generated. I have seen some magnificent works from other artists that would be considered AI today WAY before AI even got to this point.

I do not think your work is AI generated, but it sure is high quality.

It is sad that AI has such a reputation and skill level, that now people assume art is AI. People, I guess, will now assume it is AI art if it reaches a certain quality. Not always the case, people.

I love your work, very pretty, very nicely done, and you do NOT deserve a strike or these accusations. I am happy to hear that you will keep doing art regardless of what others say.

I don’t consider my work to be very high quality but it has… soul? ^^ Every new artwork, every commission is a journey! New thoughts, new emotions, new ways to deliver the idea.

But I do appreciate your input, it’s so much flattering to read 😊

"Quality" is relative and subjective.

IMO your work is very high quality. The work and care in it is obvious to me.

Yeah, cos a skilled artist that has been drawing for years is just going to drop their pen/pencil and start using an inferior tool. What a joke.

Who made these claims? Were they brain dead?

It’s sad to admit but I saw some artists doing it. That made me upset because if one good artist tries to cheat then it gives a dark shade to every other digital artist

All I can say is how did they come up with that lol? Have they seen your gallery over the years, with how you've improved and refined your work bit by bit are they going to chalk that up to AI as well? Hope all goes well for you and this gets sorted out.

I suspect that this one was kinda different from my previous work - I rarely do portraits plus I used a totally new media. I also used a backlighting and ai uses a contrary lighting all the time

It is an arms race as well. AI recognition software (which itself is also AI) to recognizes AI created media is already prevalent in multinational media companies, and the accessibility to this software is becoming more viable at lower cost, though at lower capability as well.

There is a lot of teething issues with artwork, because if AI art generators learns from artworks such as those from Iskra, then an AI recognition software is going to generate false positives from original artworks by Iskra, because it learns that artworks by Iskra are likely to be AI generated, due to the popularity of people generating AI art using Iskra originals as a base.

This is really bad for artists that wants nothing to do with AI, because all artists will be impacted from those that utilize AI art generators. AI implementation to recognize AI generated art will put popular artists at a higher likelihood to be positive, whether it be from volume, style, or even mistakes done by artists. Exceptions will need to be made.

That’s a smart review. I have nothing to add there, so sad but true

Rock on! And well....the FA mods have never had a good track record so...not really surprised. Wouldn't exactly call them respected or at least respectable.

Some of them are nice guys! But yeah others brought me some nerves in the past, too

Поверь мне AI будет рисовать лучше тебя и быстрее и ничего ты не сделаешь. Каждый твой новый арт будет улучшаеть его скил. Единственное что AI не умеет сейчас делать комиксы со смыслом. Что касаеться страйка есть сайт https://www.aiornot.com/ для проверки AI или человека арт

Да, как бы ни хотелось это признавать, но ты прав. И к сожалению, под это попадут далеко не только художники

Jeez you have a gallery that goes beyond the AI nonsense plus I've been following you for years why would someone who loves to draw just suddenly change to using a machine... Probably FA only looking surface deep!

I saw some artists simply switching to AI and everyone is under suspicion today. But I have my project files and I believe ai can’t do all the layering… yet :<

I get why someone on first glance might see this as AI...but only because AI has gotten really good at mimicing furry artists. Hopefully they do the right thing and start looking for evidence of someone using AI first (by maybe actually talking to them? lol) before levying a strike.

Very true

That's the issue with AI as a whole it's now getting so close to the real deal any resemblance of a Artists style could be seen as AI and it not be at all just for the lighting style mostly used in ai stuff

The thing that I've noticed is that AI makes things too perfect. They can't seem to make something ugly. It's always specific body types and perfection.

Until you count the fingers or see a maelstrom of pixels in a character's eyes

What a chaos :<

Yeah I've been watching your art for a long time and you've had your own style for a very long time.

My Wonder is if somebody who has a beef with you decided to report it as AI just out of spite.

Who knows…
And thank you!

What? ._. Wow, that's not... good.

Sorry for you being harassed, it seems really lazy and shoddy of the FA staff to accuse you of that without checking or anything.

Sending hugs. <3

An of course AI stuff mimics you; I'm sure your art is being used to 'train" AI, because your art is so good!

Heh thank you very much

If someone were to make art from ai that was trained off of their own art, technically they still made it themselves.

Hmmm philosophical

Art requires learning, experience, and specially, skill and expression; putting a machine to do it, even if trained off your own style, lacks every single one of these aspects, which casually, are what makes art a thing. A product without these is beautiful, but lacks any merit.
The faster everyone turns back to that page of the book, the better it will be for the artist community.

Training ai to do anything is also a skill in itself. An ai based off of the effort and experience of your art, simply replicates it. To say there's nothing in that is foolish. The art generated from one's own art for their own sake, is their own art, as it's a direct result and reflection of their own effort and experience.

Мне жаль что тебе пришлось столкнуться с таким, неприятное и даже обидное какое-то, будто вся галерея до этого — пустой звук, а не репутация порядочной оригинальной художницы :(
...хоть под каждую работу теперь поэтапку собирай и публикуй, чес слово.

Про сайты с проверкой "вероятности АИ" -- круто что они не увидели это в твоей работе, но просто на всякий скажу что они работают через раз и многие мои работы с нуля отмечали как 90%+... qwq

Спасибо! Ну, я уже очень давно сохраняю несколько этапов своих работ и psd файл. Наверное надо сохранять ещё и незаконченные этапы что ли 😆

Не знала, что эти сайты настолько несовершенны. В отличие от твоих восхитительных работ! Может, робот думает, что они слишком хороши для человека 😁

Спасибо за приятности 👉👈❤️

You are one of the best! If the automated systems strike your art for thinking "being AI made", they are dumber than said AIs...

I wonder if it’s automatic?

I swear you just can't seem to catch a break these days. I wish the best for you though, and I hope the mods fix this.

That’s fine, most of my troubles are caused by myself! I’m too active 😁 But getting such nice messages is a big pleasure, thank you

All I'm going to say? People freaking out about AI was always going to lead to human artists getting false hits. Better to live and let live. Unless someone's trying to use it for commercial work, or to impersonate someone else, let 'em have their fun.

Or maybe FA needs some artist accreditation, idk

Both things already happened over InkBunny, and some of the top tier commission-seller artists from there are doing all it is in their hands to naturalize AI, cover hundreds of commissions without hand-drawing a single line, and get paid for doing nothing. All because they were "allowed to have their fun" over there.

I'm so sorry to hear this happened. I've followed your work for a long time and I see the passion you put into it. I hope this strike is reversed.

If you're open to hearing it, I think I see why this was flagged. Sure, it's a departure from your usual style, but when I look at the ear fluff in particular it seems off. I get that it's a stylization, but a casual viewer may see that as an artifact of image generation. This is only my perspective, but it may help this seem less random.

Oh thank you so very much for the hint! That’s something I would never come up with myself

I'm a bit worried that accusations of using AI will become more frequent for everyone. Keeping project files is a good idea!

One of the more poisonous things AI does - and it's harder to deal with because it's completely unintentional - is it creates distrust as AI products look more and more like they were designed by humans. I've seen faked photos, heard scam calls, and watched artists get into fights accusing each other of using AI in their work. This is the same sort of thing, and it's *infuriating*.

That’s the new reality! Sometimes I’m trying to think of any digital goods I could create that AI potentially can’t… But there’s nothing on my mind. Maybe I should look into the physical world haha

Да уж, жалко что модерации на ФА часто не спрашивает ничего, а делает всё на скорую руку, тяп ляп.

Пожалуй, именно это меня и рассердило. Я понимаю, что сейчас сложно отличить рисунок от генерации, но удалять его с припиской «больше так не делай, а то бан?». Я даже комментарии не все прочитала там!

That really sucks, I always love logging in and seeing your art, and it's obviously not AI. I hope they can undo the strike and maybe change the process if it's accusing real artists of AI

Fucking A.I.
You Deserve Better Treatment
We Need Real Artists

I cant deny, this is quite infuriating that such crap is thrown at somebody such as you who been drawing over decade with big track of quality works, just to be marked as AI slopper. This treatment you received and paranoia, borders insanity.
But I m glad even with all this AI nonsense you keeping up good attitude for making art, which I really find respectable. And I wouldn't want to lose artist who made me pretty much go down to furry art rabbit hole to AI that is for sure.

You remain one of my favorite artists on here. Glad to see this doesn't deter you and that you'll always continue, if only for yourself.

Well if you think about it, your art looking so good that people accuse you of using ai is kind of a compliment.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this nonsense, Iskra. -_- I really, really hope this isn't the start of a trend among the administration.

I am still new to FA, and I came here because I wanted to avoid the AI art being allowed on the sites I used to frequent. I may not be an artist, but hearing this makes it concerning that the technology is growing faster than we can deal with it. Artists and other creatives create the culture and what they create has soul poured into their work, something that AI lacks.

Even with the head of the snake freshly cut, the body keeps spitting its poison around, it seems.
Good luck with your business~

Mini rant:
I host free and publicly available multimodal AI from my own private server. Because fuck anyone tying to make money off AI stuff...

Anyway, all AI content from my server has tags flagging it as AI generated embedded directly into the code of the image/video/audio. SOMETHING ALL AI CONTENT SHOULD HAVE!

I also don't use LoRAs trained to emulate specific artists styles, and make it very difficult to do so in general. something else that should be mandatory for generitive content.

Sadly, lota assholes abusing a shiny new tool out there..

(I dont use the word "art" because no generative pre-trained transformer or other probabilistic model can create "art" of any kind)

That's a shame because it's....really, really obviously not AI art to anyone that even somewhat knows what to look for. Sorry to hear it. I loved the piece.

here is my advice: emphasize the fact that your output as a human artist is significantly less than what an AI generator would output, this is the most distinct difference between human artists and ai-generators

another thing you can point is the progression of your art style from previous works to newer ones, if you can indicate examples of this while it also being consistent with your style, this is further undeniable proof of being human

these are the two main distinctions that ai generators can't emulate because they are specifically not designed for those things

jeez. I'm sorry you have to put up with that D:

God this site is a mess :(

I’m so sorry to hear this bs happening. I experienced a few days ago the increasing difficulty in distinguishing AI and none AI. It’s getting nuts. Still, I hope you can bear this. You have my support.

Honestly? I don't see it. I'm pretty sure that some random user flagged you without cause.

I've seen a lot of AI art and I can spot it in an instant. It all looks the same, and it doesn't look like the piece that you got a strike for. Yours is very comic book-esque. Almost like a modern take on a Frank Miller cover. That's not a style that AI generators will end up with. My best guess is that it's the eyes. While the rest of the image is very flat (in a good way) the eyes have depth and palpable roundness. I'm not sure if you meant for them to be distinct from the style that the rest of the image has, but a style clash like that is one of the things people might look at and assume it is AI without really having the skills to identify this sort of thing.

I'm sorry you gotta deal with this shit. The fact there's been zero attempt by Govt to regulate AI (not only for reasons like this, but for like 1000 other reasons) is just fkn insane to me. I hate that we're at this point, & it's only going to get so much worse.

now that's just sad

The problem is within just a couple of years the technology will have advanced to the point that you will be able to ask it to produce a picture in the same style as anyone you point it at, and people will no longer be able to tell the difference.

What criteria will they use to strike people with then?

Also good thing to know: Do not trust services/websites that say they can give proof if an image is AI or not. At worst you're just uploading your work to someone who will add it to their AI training pool. And these services will return false positives if your work has been massively trained on already, because inevitably it will look similar because you were the source. AI can only ever produce look-a-likes from stuff it has been fed already.

hope this dont happen again and hope the strike gets removed. maybe it be safer in the future to have a link to WIP in the image descriptions to proove its not AI

I fully agree with the dispute idea before straight up striking it!

Also, Procreate is awesome for drawing and you did such a good job with your first piece drawing there!