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For Writer's Readers
2 months ago
Dragonwuff Musings
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Lu-Man submitted a journal that absolutely struck a chord with this wuff. Please, if you are among those who enjoy reading story submissions here on FA, please give it a look:https://www.furaffinity.net/journal/11187787/
Vrghr posted a long reply there. Have a glance at that too, if you feel like it.
But, to summarize here: Too often, we, as writers on FA, get the feeling we're shouting into a void. That we're actors producing a play, getting all our characters and costumes and props in place, making sure our lighting and sound is perfect, and walking out on stage to a darkened house, hoping there's an audience out there, somewhere beyond the footlights. Its disheartening to go though the entire production and hear not a peep from beyond those lights. Not a clap, not a cheer, not a laugh, not even a groan, a boo, a hiss.
We know there must be someone there! Our "ushers" tell us they've sold tickets and admitted bodies. FA lets us know via "Views". But the silence in the house provides nothing for us. No feedback, no clues for improvement, no hints of success or failure. Worse, no incentive to produce the next "play" or continue the one we've started. We're not asking for standing ovations. But something, anything, other than silence, would be so welcome! Just clicking a "fav" box occasionally if a story moves you, would be a big deal for most of us.
As
Vixyyfox , Lu-Man , and many others have said, "Writers write". It's what we do. The characters and worlds that live within our minds and imaginations come to life in the text we craft. These are our gifts to you, the Readers. We invite you to partake of them, for better or worse. Most of us, Vrghr here, certainly, will continue to write without feedback from our readers, our viewers. But, there's extra work involved to format these submissions, polish them for public consumption, error/spell/grammar check and edit them, convert file formats for upload. If no one is reading them anyway, why waste the time with all that when we could be writing the next chapter, the next saga, crafting our next 'play' ?
We won't stop writing, but you may find fewer of us are posting. Why post something that's being ignored anyway? if there's fun in the creation, and no value in the submission, then why not focus on the fun and ignore the other, if it's being ignored by everyone else?
Bottom line, your feedback is important to us, even if you feel it's too minor or a nuisance for us to read it. It's not, trust wuffy. Even a single word, like "nice", "funny", "sob", "LOL" is appreciated. In fact, "lame", "boring", "meh" are appreciated too! Even though we'd love to have more detail (and wuff will probably ask for it in his reply), those help a writer out too!
More, it means someone, out there beyond the blinding lights of the stage, WATCHED us, HEARD us! What we did touched them, even in a negative way. It's important!
Writers Write, but READERS make the writing worthwhile!
And thank you for getting the ball rolling with your post!
It's interesting: Wuff's been on FA for over two decades! (*cringes* That long? ) Writers have definitely seemed like the "red-headed step children" of the site, even moreso in the past. At least we weren't treated as bad as the cooks/chefs here (that's ANOTHER story, and for a different day).
There have definitely been improvements to support writers over the years. One, as wuff mentioned above, was inclusion of "story" as a posting type. Improvement in tags and the gallery folders have helped as well, allowing writers to group sequences into a folder of the same story, or same characters, or similar worlds, etc. All of which help readers get invested or stay connected.
And for a time in the middle years, writing was actually making headway. Definitely not on the same levels as visual artwork, but at least appreciated and acknowledged as furry media.
Recently, however, it seems that, as you pointed out, writing is losing ground again. Wuff suspects that the same things are also affecting legitimate furry artists, that are affecting writers. But, because writers are a smaller sub-group over all, we tend to recognize the changes easier due to the influences having greater effects on a smaller sample set. Sort of like the "canaries in the coal mine" of the FA site.
Wuff's speaking of the advent of commercialization, "engagement" bots and algorithms, AI-influenced/augmented posting, and a major influx of non-furry users looking to use furry audiences for their own means, commercial or otherwise. The visual artists are swamped with YCH, and paywall-post ads that give a title, a segment, a glimpse of something followed by a link to pay for the rest. There are hordes of bots scraping the FA posts for various purposes. Most are just sucking in page data, creating the phenomenon of dozens of views within moments of a new submission. You know automation has to be involved when a 1000 word story or a new picture has 15-20 views in under 10 seconds of posting.
That's bad. Thankfully they haven't gotten around to the meaningless bot responses flooding sites like YouTube these days, where a new post gets 10-30 auto-generated replies from users with a dozen numbers after some random word as their ID.
But the glut of commercialized posts flooding into FA is conditioning real furry users to move into "skim and ignore" mode on the site; just glancing at thumbnails and dismissing them to try to filter out the 'spam' from the meat. Unfortunately, that means a lot of legit posts from actual furs are getting 'binned' because they didn't make it through the first filter.
And, of course, those recently enrolled on FA who aren't really interested in the furry fandom as other than some form of investment to profit off of, could care less about written works. Unless you're a "boutique" rip-off publisher or a publishing house, stories have no profit margin. Which means a rather large percentage base of watchers may not actually be there to read our furry text. They're hoping we'll "watch back" to see their patreon, YCH, or other "for profit" commercials as part of a potentially paying audience.
Because once we stop, not only have we let the B@stards win, but we've abandoned a part of ourselves.
As much as NSFW stuff can tend to get crickets if you aren't already established, SFW might as well be a ghost.
When Vrghr sees one of his new posts reach dozens or more "views" within moments of posting it, wuff's got to know that only 1 or 2 of those, if that, are living persons. And there's a good chance even those weren't 'furs'. The rest are bots, AI, spiders, etc., scraping the site.
Sad to hear though, that you aren't posting any longer. The world in general and furs in specific are diminished when one of the lights goes out.
You do have a point about the NSFW stuff. There's always been a HUGE debate in the fandom about the popularity of porn/smut and whether writers/artists should dip into those waters in order to gain followers and engagement. Wuff's published some fetish material back in the day, and it did quite well. The highest "fav'd" of those hit over 70 while nearly none ranked under 30 and 40-50 was average. For the OYrn stories and others, those are averaging 5-7 favs, if that, though one did hit around 12. Still, that's a HUGE difference. Even the viewer levels reflected the NSFW popularity; 4-5000 for the NSWF stuff. 200-500 for all the rest.
these days, we open something like facebook or twitter, and just move our thumbs.
Vix
Yes, following people online, and reading stories sitting at the desk, on a monitor, is 'New,' and while I DO it, that lack of finger contact, turning each page, leaves me feeling,,, distanced.
That's me, entirely.
I'm on, I think, FOUR Authors' Tales, have utterly dropped the ball on one of them, even though I've got a clipboard full of notes/observations from the Chapters already read, waiting for ME to send to 'em and show 'em how much I've enjoyed the Journey they've created.
I'm ashamed to admit my lack of focus, various reasons may apply, but it's still there.
*sighs*
Winter is far better for such things. Bad weather keeping me indoors more, helps me to finally do it, but that's really just another damned excuse.
I gotta do better.
I luv you/all, and hate that any of you thinks you're NOT seen/appreciated.
(((Hugs, if o.k.)))
Aniwayas Song, putting myself in the 'Lazy Corner' for awhile...
Vix
That experience (Early morning, just before the world wakes-up around me), lasts all of around,,, ten minutes. Max! lol Usually right as I wake up, the Catto and Doggo still snoozing on either side of me, blinking the sleepies outta my eyes and feeling the rusty gears inside my noggin' starting to grind into motion again...
Then the world wakes up, and as Rascal Flatts and 'Crew' sing- "The race is ON!..."
heh
Still, I must make amends. I truly do love what you folks do here, and was quite rude to neglect participating and showing you that.
I can handle being rebuked. I'm Olde 'nuff to know I ain't perfect.
I can only appreciate folks telling me I messed-up, so I can stop doing so!
Vix
This wuff would never refuse a hug!
Thank you for the reply!
Wuff used to be much like you. HAD to have a book at hand, several packed in suitcases to read on a trip, one on the nightstand, books scattered at arm's reach throughout the house.
Unfortunately, age and eyesight have made things a bit more difficult, so wuff has his library on a tablet these days. The great advantage there is that it can change font sizes, backgrounds, and colors at need. So for travel and relaxing, wuffy turns up the letters and everything is visible without squinting. Late and night, and the screen and contrast dims to make thing easier on tired eyes. Reading in bed with glasses off? The screen is minimally lit, just enough to read easily in the dark bedroom, and font is set to micro-size because these silly old eyes focus amazingly well, as long as the object is only 8 inches away. *hehe*
Better still, wuff currently has several hundred books and magazines resident on the device, and several thousand in cloud storage that have already been read, ready to download and re-read whenever the whim strikes.
Everything you've shared makes perfect sense to me, and damned if I wouldn't enjoy it/them more (Larger font, back-lit/other features? HELL yeah!), if I could.
Here's what troubles me the most about all-things-internet: The LACK of actual human contact. Not just 'Shaking hands or hugging', but that personal, face-to-face experience, where you get to listen to folks, see their reactions, respond accordingly, usually over some food or drinks.
That's the Generation I hail from and still cling tightly to.
I'm Olde. shush
;-P
Still, the points being made about this topic (And my Journal has over FIVE NEW POSTS on it), are 100% valid. Folks who spend their time, invest themselves into creating something, and then posting it to the site, only to get nothing but: crickets?
I'd be a tad vexed, too!
Being one'a the guilty ones who have neglected this effort (To write/compose and share it), I don't have a leg to stand on.
I can only appreciate you/others calling ME out for it, and then adjust MYSELF accordingly, to be a better participant in this fandom/genre.
Ain't easy making mistakes, but I sure's HELL appreciate being told I'm doing so, and then fix 'em, rather than scamper about continuing to do 'em!
:-D
Vix
Attention spans have gotten to the point where even a ten second TikTok is too much for a lot of people.
Reading? Forget it. Too much effort.
I wonder if there's a way read stories and then compress them into semi-sorta audiobooks here on FA. If not, then maybe post a story and then provide an external link
Just guessing, because yes, writing is a TON of work. The only thing I've found that requires more is animating, and that at least gets some attention.
I have heard there are text readers you can get that will read a story for you. I used to listen to books on tape when working. I kept a cassette tape player in my pocket and wear a headset. My work was pretty simple, so I could get away with it.
And you're right - writing is hard work.
Vix
It's still rather disheartening for an author though. The mind might understand, but the heart wants the reply.
I was writing up fencing lessons, and they were good too... but hearing back zero from the students I had, I stopped doing it.
As I explained to another writer... the one thing I do is stay faithful to the TP. It's my little bit of sanity.
*hugs...
Vix
We keep pressing on, despite the echoes of what often seems an empty room, because as you say, "Writers Write!"
I think, for the writing segments, wuffy is going to make a tiny change to that: "Writers Write, but Readers Make The Writing Worthwhile" *smiles*
Vix
It really kills the motivation. I want to love people with my work, whether through laughter or joy or various emotions (even turning them on is acceptable).
But give me something. A single comment even of "Nice story." Is all I need. So I know you liked it. I used to just be a lurker too, but I've tried to engage more. Because engagement shows I care more. That I like your stuff and took the time to tell you.
One should never discount the importance of motivation! It can come from so many sources.
And yes, though a lot of furs deride those who post NSFW stuff and just "looking for clicks", that is yet another emotion (or several of them, if you read some of the ancient philosophers) that writing can evoke. And it's no less real than sadness, joy, rage, or any other. It still means far more than "shouting into the void".
And, lets face it, look at any bookstore, online or brick & mortar, and check the shelf space given to "romance" and all its variants against any other segment. It's obvious that NSFW sells!
A user can "ingest" visual art through lengthy, in-depth appreciation as well. But, unlike writing where you have to actually go from start to finish and follow the words, a user can also just "skim" a visual piece and still derive a significant amount from it.
As you say, Stories require Work to gain their effects. And a lot of folks these days have neither the time nor inclination to invest that.
Sadly, RL is consuming nearly all of my time/energies. I'm so tuckered at the end of the day the best I can do is TRY to reply to notes/emails, maybe catch a video or something, and then I'm nodding-off and sleep summons me.
All I can say to you and all others, who HAVE invested your time, energies, love and passion towards Writing or Drawing, Composing or Animating- Thank you. I'd give each and every one of you a hearty (((HUG)))
You are seen, heard, and loved/respected, even if this particular Fur/Fan might not give you the just dues you certainly deserve.
Apologies to you and all.
:-/
Thank you! *HUGS*
The pace of life today seems to leave much less time for these sorts of diversions than it once did. Vrghr recalls the classic images of folks relaxing on porches, sitting in easy chairs, paper in hand or just watching the neighbors go by.
That was so common it became a stereotype. But it hardly represents us these days.
Not sure my brain would let me stop writing, but you are right, if nobody was reading would I bother posing? I don't know the answer to that, but I don't want to test it either :(
It really lights the fire again. *smile* Lets wuff know that, if he hadn't have posted it, then it would have set in the drive's archives, forgotten, with no one to find it and bring it back to life like that.
but even than i've been running into kind of the same thing, pretty sure that the faves that happen and the views are just because porn, regardless of the stories that get crafted around the scenarios.
I realize everything you say is pretty much true, but.......regardless of the potential labels of contraryism or whatever amounts to going against the grain these days....i feel like i still will just ignore that and put the effort in regardless. I'm not a big writer so i can't claim to know what all the refinement tasks you listed are like, and for that matter the remarks on them are completely valid as well.
But at the end of the day, I think the benefit for me in putting that writing and world building and details out there, regardless of the refinement, is the slow build up of a "Visible Construct" to the overall personal world.
I can and have theorized up dozens and hundreds of ideas. but all of that builds up and echoes and reverberates around in my head over and over again, and can change and morph a dozen times or more if i let it........but to my thoughts, if i put something down into a place where others can see it, it pulls it away from that quantum uncertainty state with everything else in my head, and sets at least a tiny part of it into a more stable state.
things can still change, in fact I'd argue that's a necessity....but now you've crafted one more solider facet onto the gem of the overall creation, or creations, be it world, characters, settings that you use often.......i dunno, i'm probably rambling a bit here....but it's one more important aspect to me of not even just writing, but the act of creating, and not getting too wrapped up in ones own head........i was stuck in that trap for too many years......it'll be a while before i let myself fall back ^vvvvv^
Vrghr loves the analogy of "collapsing the quantum state" of the whisps of ideas into reality by writing them down. It's very much the way this wuff's mind works, too! For Vrghr, it's a process where the expression of the idea into the story is fed back through wuff's eyes as he reads the line, triggering a different side of his brain, to analyze and ask, 'what next', or 'why do that', where the character who spawned it can chime in and tell the creative part, 'this is why', or show Vrghr 'what next' by doing it. And yes, inside wuff's head, the characters in the imaginary 'quantum state' very much exist and frequently take control of Vrghr's writing when the 'logic side' reads it, dictating and directing paths and plots that wuffy didn't intend or expect when he sat down to begin writing. *grins* Those are often some of the best things wuff has written if the "favs" and "views" here on FA are any indication.
As for the 'refinement' process Vrghr mentioned: When this wuff first started writing and posting, the only "refinement" came from a spell checker and a "save as" command that converted the raw file into something FA would accept as an upload. But, more recently, Vrghr has paid a lot more attention to the "mechanics" of language; the punctuation, grammar, syntax, spelling, etc. All the "English 101" stuff that bored Vrghr to tears during school. Wuff's gotten some WONDEFUL help from other writers here on FA; Helix and Vixyy, to name just a couple, who have pointed out flaws in Vrghr's prose and style. And wuff has enlisted some online software like "Grammarly" and "grok.com", to add some professional-level editing review.
Wuff doesn't go to those when the story is first emerging, though. Vrghr aims to let the creation process flow without interrupting the characters or getting sidetracked from the plot. But if Vrghr decides his text is good enough for others to read when the initial writing is done, wuff buckles down and starts putting the professional polish on it. Making sure the "tags" for dialog are formatted correctly, the proper punctuation is in place, verb tense and plurality agree, all that "boring mechanical English stuff" that folks ignore, but will yank a reader out of their immersion if they trip over it. Once that's all finished, and it takes multiple passes to get it all right, only then does wuffy do that "save as" trick to convert the files for upload. Next, wuff posts it on the board, adding notes and descriptions about the upload, selecting search tags, choosing the correct folder(s), and ensuring the file posts correctly with the proper thumbnail—all those steps.
That's why Vrghr mentioned that "posting" actually involves a fair bit of work, at least it does for this wuff, over just creating the initial story.
Of course, none of that stuff is mandatory! Especially if you're just testing the waters with a new idea or just posting for the fun of it. But, if you want to work toward creating something larger one day, it's not a bad habit to begin to form.
The ONLY Thing I've written in the last two decades was some tiny little fanfics that were way too specific to my own tastes.
I could barely even get feedback from proofreaders!
Having done both graphic as well as written art, I've learned how important it is to SAY Something if I like something. Even if it has one or two good things, letting a writer (or artist) know their stuff is being seen and appreciated can be the spark that keeps a will-be pro from giving up before they get started.