And also the Hamas attack that gave Netanyahu the excuse he needed.

Oh, you mean the mass-murder.

Just who's done more mass murder here?

I'm pretty sure he was referring to Netanyahu, if you pay attention to the syntax of both posts

With bfl that was clear, but I took what he said as an opportunity to clarify my position.

With bullet crow, it was far more ambiguous, but I did the same.

I was consciously trying not to be defensive.

I support Israel and I found your journal offensive.

I suspected as much, but thank you for clarifying that.

The Zionists who settled Israel started with murder when in the Nakba of '48 they killed around 15,000 indigenous Palestinians and drove around 75,000 more off of the land they had lived on for thousands of years.

It's been constant war and humanitarian crimes ever since, leading up to October Seventh, -which was not born in a vacuum- where they began their retributive "Revenge" against the Palestinians. which included their genocidal dehumanization, slaughter, and starvation of the innocents of Gaza, in a sort of "Final Solution".

I can find no excuse for that.

Israel is a brutal settler colonial ethno-nationalist, racist apartheid state.

Nationalism is ALWAYS an evil thing. Religious nationalism is even worse.

You know I love you, man. I just can't get behind genocide.

The problem I have is with Hamas. They want to eradicate all Jews and said October 7th was the beginning. To me, that’s genocide. Israel has the right to exist and the right to protect themselves. No, I am not happy with all the death, but Hamas is not an innocent . World War II proved to me that Jews needs their ancestral home and even more than that need to exist. Any other group if attacked like the Jews have been attacked would fight at least as hard as Israel has.

That's just not true. Where did you hear that?

Does Israel really have a right to exist over the right for Palestine to exist?

Of course Hamas is not innocent. What bthey did on October Seventh was a war crime. But does that really justify what Israel has done before or since?

If this keeps going as it has, it will never end.

Does not Palestine have a right to exist on their indigenous land? Do they not deserve equal rights and self determination as much as Israel does?

If you look at history, The Jewish people were driven out of Europe or fled due to widespread antisemitism. They certainly weren't going to be given Germany or Poland following WWII.

They had no inherent right to claim Palestine as their own and drive the Palestinians out.

Palestine had existed as a mostly peaceful place where Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived side by side for around 1300 years before the Zionists arrived in the mid/late 1800s and started colonizing their land.

I wish that both of them had engaged with me more deeply on this.

I thought what both said was pretty straightforward.

I'm not saying that it wasn't. It may have been somewhat unclear in its brevity, particularly in the case of bullet crow, who I usually end up having more extended discussions with.

(ok obviously I was wrong)

That's been extremely well covered and goes without saying.

As a matter of fact it's covered in the articles I posted above.