None that i am aware of. I avoid them best i can

Indeed I am.

They're good people who just want to be left alone, and accepting of others so long as they don't impose their will on them, and look past political stances.

I have to agree with you there. Personally, I don't really care what people do, as long as they keep it to themselves. It becomes a serious problem when they try to force it on others, or expect people to go along with it. Then in many cases, if you don't, they'll potentially get violent, or resort to insults.

Exactly.

Precisely.

IDK really, I keep politics out of my Social Circles.
Every so often opinions happen, but I dont look at any of my friends in a political lens.

The best way. I might have intense political disagreements with my friends and family from time to time, but they've never went out of their way to do harm to other people. Like even my openly racist homophobic mum is close friends with people not her race, and patronises a lesbian couple's business. But then again, I think it's not being in America where things aren't so politicised where I live.

I got forcefully labelled as one by a collection of assholes because I'm not rabidly progressive and I didn't like the right Walt Disney Corporation products enough? Does that count?

It's often by people who can't separate between their personal beliefs with their emotional maturity (or lack thereof). Notone is a monolith, not even the furry fandom especially as it becomes more mainstream.

Felt.

+1

Possibly? I am unsure to be honest. I tend to have more liberal leaning friends than right leaning ones, but we are also a little more center than hard left by American standards. I am definitely believe that there are bad opinions and beliefs on both extremes, and I also believe that no one is above reproach or above being questioned. But I have seen more bad arguments out of conservative leaning people than I have out of liberal leaning people, and the same can be said for use of information that is factually accurate when it comes to news sources. The right tend to exaggerate or misrepresent information by not understanding it completely or just really don't actually know what is actually right or actually happens.

Examples:
1. Saying Sandy Hook was a hoax
2. Believing that teaching gender theory is trying to convert children to trans people (If anyone of them actually read what the curriculum's were and how it is taught, they would know this is wrong)
3. Thinking more guns prevents gun violence when we have decades of data showing, no it doesn't, it makes you and everyone around you less safe. (Again, go look at the actual comparative data)

But I am not above calling out the left leaning people for thinking stupid stuff as well.

Examples:
1. Being told that hermaphrodite is a vulgar term and is transphobic/intersexphobic/etc when it is very specific scientific term that has a very specific use, and there are multiple types of hermaphrodites
2. Being told Futanari is also a "bad" and inappropriate word cause it fetishizes people when it is literally the Japanese word for hermaphroditism, and yes, it gets used in a fetish context, but so is BBW, MILF, GILF, DILF, and etc. and no one seems to have any problems with any of the words that have been fetishized in certain contexts but at still fine words.

And like it really depends on the topic, I think there are plenty of right leaning people who are decent people and want what is best, but there is a lot of right leaning people who just want to punish the left for some perceived sleight and have totally fallen into the trap of bad information without context. I also do not think things should get as prescriptive as the left wants them to be in some cases or as strictly left as some areas in the EU. But even then, the worst of the left is not nearly as bad as the worst of the right from what I have been able to sus out.

The Sandy Hook (or any other shooting conspiracy theory one) always baffles me. The amount of outlandish stories takes a lot of mental gymnastics.

And this is kind of my larger issue, I am fine with people having generally conservative views on various government related issues, like taxes, economy related stuff, etc. But when someone starts going into the conspiracy hole, then it is just like, nah, I am done, you have officially failed the ability to have a reasonable discussion.

I am an evidence based person, and when you have people/individuals who start denying the evidence, that is when I just like, things are done here. I do generally think that if you follow the evidence, follow historical trends, etc. You will naturally end up in a more center left leaning view. Some of what is going on can be philosophically debated, sure, but I think you still need to have well founded reasons for why you think what you do.

Yes.
We just respect each others interests and dont push our views.

What about apples though?

Give em to Lucia <3

I don't chose my friends based on their politics. If they want to share their views, I listen loosely, as it isn't an important factor for me.

Indeed; friends shouldn't become separated over keyboard arguments; to me that's petty. It only becomes serious if they go out the way to act on their beliefs that hurts others.

"friends shouldn't become separated over keyboard arguments"

Yet, it happened to me a few other times. Out of the blue even, because of American politics, where I am born and living in Central Europe, Hungary, and American politics aren't even in my top 100 things to care about. Yet, """somehow""" over the internet, without ever meeting me once, a few person mind-read me and judged me, based on per say my dislike of pandering happening all around in entertainment. Yeah, well if they are shallow like that, be so. They know where to find me, once they are 10-20-ish years older and wiser. Sadly, the lost years will be gone and I won't be feeling motivated to rekindle any flame of friendship, that was pissed out by stupidity/insanity.

None. At best they're displaying an absurd level of cognitive dissonence. They're quite literally alligned with a party that wants their furry hobby/interest treated as a deviancy.

At worst they're being blatantly dishonest.

And after admining on this site for over a decade, it's usually the latter. I lost count of how many people I had to ban from the site or the telegram chat because they would first post that they want people to be treated fairly and without judgement....but then harassed the shit out of LGBT members of the site. Or posted blatant hate speech. Or attacks on science and education and health (yes, I mean anti-vax material overall. But also a stunning amount of science denial from evolution to climate change). Or supported violence against others they disagreed with.

The days of the conservative/republican party taking the stance that "we have different views but we can be friends" are long, long gone. It's been a long downward spiral of decades for conservatives, but it's reached genuine radicalization levels of absolutely reprehensible views for the majority of the party.

Because keep in mind, that party voted into office someone who:

-Fomented a violent riot in the capital when he lost the election. I had to drive through the aftermath of those maga lunatics destroying part of DC because they supported his lie that he hadn't lost fair and square, even when the republican party as a whole did their level best to tip the scales as much as they could, and even attempted to cheat afterward).

-Is an adjudicated rapist, slanderer, adulterer, blatant racist and bigot.

-Is clearly in severe mental decline and cannot (and hasn't been able to for years) communicate like a normal human being.

-Who devestated the economy in his prior term.

-Who pulled the country from supporting the WHO when the WHO was predicting a pandemic was coming, and as a result we saw horrible numbers of deaths and long term covid infections.

-Who is blatantly and absolutely reprehensible human being who never admits fault to anything and constantly loads his answers to even the most basic of questions with vaguaries and double-speak so he can alway change positions in insane ways.

-Who has cheated on all of his wives.

-Who ensured women in multiple states across the country would have their rights curtailed.

All of that, and the party as a whole said "Yes, more please. We like this. Hell yeah."

I am utterly disgusted with that view. It goes against every aspect of what I consider decent or reasonable.

"I am utterly disgusted with that view. It goes against every aspect of what I consider decent or reasonable."

And the crazy thing is that for a lot of MAGAs I talked to would've said that same sentence I quoted from you. You are convinced of your views as much as they are convinced of their views which are anathema to you.

Aside from a few that just want to troll, a lot of them are genuinely believers of a better world going back to the old days. It is a kind of idealism through rose-tinted-glasses. As an ex-conservative (now centre left), I can feel where they are coming from. But making the leap to acceptance is extremely difficult.

That's the way it is here in the States.

#TeamBlue (American Democrats/Liberals) hate the MAGAs and wish for the few remaining old-school Republicans to be much more numerous, as we can reason with old-school Republicans.

MAGAs think us of #TeamBlue are terrorists.

If you've ever seen either version of The Time Machine (the original 1960 version or the 2002 remake), #TeamBlue is kinda like the Eloi while MAGAs are kinda like the Morlocks.

Conservatives have always been evil. They just started saying the quiet thing out loud, which mollified the "moderate Republicans" and liberals alike.

I used to work in the fine dining restaurant industry.

We had a lot of regulars at the hotel/restaurant. People we were on first name basis with and who we could have wonderful talks with at the table while doing service.

We also had a hugely immigrant staff that the team was composed of and whom all of those regulars would sometimes request by name because they got along so well.

Then the 2016 election happened.

The next morning was like a Twilight Zone episode. One of the ugly/scary ones.

The staff were looking and feeling scared. A lot didn't know if they or their family would be getting raided and tossed from the country, even though they were fully naturalized. You could see it on their faces and feel it in the room. It was not a happy time.

But the guests! Holy shit these smug ass, evil people.

So many of the regulars or recently checked in rich fucks were smirking at the table bussers, actively smiling while the staff looked horrified.

And it wasn't looks. You could stand around the corner from tables, like at our beverage station, and just listen in. And so many of those tables were talking about how they couldn't wait to see the staff (not immigrants in general, but the staff at the restaurant) get the boot.

I had to leave the industry a bit after that, because I couldn't handle just how incredibly vile the people we were serving turned out to be. I'd dealt with plenty of toxic people over time, sure. But this was a case of the mask coming off so many of them, and what was under it was nothing but smug superiority, hate, and ugliness.

And then to fast forward to 2024 when POCs voted sharply right (e.g. Cuban Americans in Florida). Immigrant communities can, and often paradoxically vote against their own interests. It stems from the idea that "I got into America the hard way, now I don't want my fellow groups to have the same luxury as I did". But at the end of the day, naturalised or not, they all end up being lumped together by institutions who may not see them as distinct.

Yeah, it's short term and selfish thinking at its finest.

Granted, the vast majority of immigrants the have voting rights voted for the Dems.

But the number that voted GOP was still shocking and a damned shame.

Yeah I think should've clarified the many conservative friends I have would've really been 1990s or 2000s republicans. They are mostly fiscally conservative and just take a more cautious approach to social issues. They aren't against it. It's more like: "you do your thing, but let's take it one step at the time and not blast it everyone on twitter" sort of deal.

Ofc, in today's political climate; even a hint of moderation immediately brands you as being on the wrong side.

Is it a coincidence the old days they reminisce about were founded on racism, segregation, blind patriotism, imperialism, misogyny, and institutionalized sexual assault? Is it a coincidence that despite claiming to love democracy they tend to lionize the likes of Pinochet who overthrew democratically elected governments and installed violently reactionary dictatorships? Is it a coincidence that despite claiming to love the freedom of speech and expression, they get antsy when either their nation or their values are questioned or even so much as given a cheap jab at and that they all seem to believe degenerate art is a thing in a fandom that attracts hatred simply for being sexually open?

And the simple fact is that the MAGA movement is not simply the other side of the coin compared to those who promote progressive values.

It is a genuinely toxic mindset that damages the vast majority of those who are MAGA. There's a reason the LeopardsAteMyFace sub is filled with posts about MAGA supporters being badly damaged by their votes. Or how the states that are super red and super MAGA are also the states that are suffering as a whole in terms of economics, healthcare, education, and even desire to live there at all. The policies they vote for as a group, the attitude, the *meanness and cruelty* they support are objectively *bad*.

And all those groups do as a whole is double down.

You said in your response that the conservatives would have said the same as me.

No.

They would have doubled down and advocated for even more extreme actions and even more regressive policies, while completely and totally ignoring that those policies are harming/killing millions of the americans they claim to support. The ones who are completely warped by the cult mentality have genuinely stopped thinking rationally. The ones who know they are fucking over millions of people genuinely want that to happen because it either makes them feel good, or they're making money off of it.

And that's the sad fact. A lot of this is a result of political extremism, religiosity gone wild, and people being so set in the ways of the past that they can't comprehend that science and technology have progressed. It's a result of capitalism being based on keeping a set pattern of behavior in the population to encourage that population to be productive for the select few who control everything else.

Engage with a furry who identifies as a right winger and you'll get buried in multiple what-aboutisms, "but the other side says" isms, and the like. You'll get zero acknowledgment that the right genuinely detests the furry culture and the furry acceptance of the LGBT. And if you do get acknowledgement of it, you'll get acknowledgement that they themselves are a bigot.

Because they've been encouraged to think that way outside the fandom by family, friends, and a social circle/bubble that have them mired in thought processes that are inherently self-destructive.

As a small example:

Read the responses of the conservatives responding to this journal.

Lots of repetition of "I wish people would just respect one another" or "I don't judge others for what they believe and wish people wouldn't judge me for what I believe"

Absolutely

Lutely

Nothing

Is actually being said there. It's a lot of words being used to avoid actually acknowledging that the conservative party as a whole has become genuinely monstrous in terms of human rights, economics, and has actively abandoned their morals.

Conservative after conservative days they "used to be on the left but felt they were bullied"

So now they're on the side of the party that is actively abusing the shit out of asylum seekers and naturalized US citizens. They're on the side of the party that primates as many racist or bigoted laws as they can possibly get away with.

They weren't getting bullied by the left. They were being told they have shitty views.

And they actively refuse to acknowledge that. Rather than acknowledge how absolutely horrific the direction the country has gone; from a terrible healthcare system, to racism and bigotry spiraling, to the government targeting asylum seekers and naturalized immigrants, to outright participating in the Gaza genocide, to our president being a convicted criminal, adulterer, and rapist...

What's the response

"BUT BIDEN!"

Or even more of a pathetic deflection:

"But what about..."

Fuck off with that what-about and "the other side" noise.

All that shit has been used for over the last decade has been to make the absolute degredation of the morals of the right more normalized.

And it's worked. Just like how the germans fell prey to the theory that "If you repeat a lie often enough it will become the truth" the Republican party has been repeating the same lies and the same deflections and the same hate for so long it's become all they can do.

They can't say their actual thoughts, because they've repeated the line "But what about...?" So many times it's all they can do.

Even as they become poorer, poorer, lose rights, and gain nothing.

yeah, but the thing is there was a social contract where every mainstream stance was "I don't believe in these values, and I am fighting them, but I don't think they should be eradicated". If it was just we disagreed about finances, about how our society should be run, or about social issues, that'd be one thing. I can disagree with someone on those points, since they're (probably) trying to help people, and while I will argue to hell and back with them about those issues I won't take it personally.

MAGA has, unambiguously, said "I believe these people should be wiped off the face of the earth". They said it about gay people, they said it about trans people, they said it about "woke" (IE; anything that is aware of the state we are in) media. And they said it about autistic people (which I am). They disagree about the very existence of people. That cannot be allowed.

But the most frustrating thing is, they are kind of right! Things were better (in some ways) 20, 30 years ago. We didn't have so many millionares and billionares mucking up the economy, we didn't have the growing inequality, climate change wasn't so bad, and we had better unions! But, and this is the important thing, the right wing made those issues. The deregulation crowd made millionares/billionares possible, made inequality grow, climate change was agrivated by them going "hey, we want all these fossil fuels!", and Ronald Regan's firing was kind of what broke unions. They're right... but also their ancestors (old conservatives instead of the MAGA crowd) were what got us into this situation

I don’t get involved in politics.

Too messy, too nasty, leads to too many uncomfortable conversations.

There was a time I used to be liberal. But after years of being their bitch, resulting in a number of forms of trauma I still suffer to this day.

I won’t lie, I’m a central right conservative Republican. I don’t care what others believe in as long as they don't impose their will on me, and look past political stances.

That said I didn’t become what I am because I was either indoctrinated by family or brainwashed by the media.

I was pushed, bullied, and harassed by the worst of liberals most of life who always treated me like I was part of the problem I had nothing to do with. By people who actively the cold blooded murder of innocent people, by those who to this day continue to demonize and discriminate me before they even get to know me or ask why I’m this way. And even when they do ask me why and I tell them I’m called this and that, blocked and blacklisted before even given a chance to explain.

I don't really care about that.

My only point of reference based on one's personal standing in my own eyes is purely from a judge of their character as an individual and how they treat themselves and others.
Political affiliation is irrelevant to me, my concern is if you're taking care of your own well-being and, and treating others with an honest, civil, and emotionally tempered standpoint.

Not that I think Politics is nessecarily a bad thing, but if it becomes a point of heated debated and leaves people with a sour taste afterwards, then perhaps it's something better left at the front door. I care about my friends, and I'm very empathetic towards others that I can't see myself just standing by while they hurt themselves or others, even if they're strangers.
Everyone deserves a chance at change, and it's my personal belief that unconditional self-love is the gateway to positive change.

Loving yourself is not simply just a right, it's a hard requirement that will only benefit the human condition and improve your standing with others.

None that I know of, at least for now

I know a whole group of them, and am one my self. However, looking at some of the comments here alone, is exactly why I don't publicly advertise my group for just anyone to join and why I screen those who do wish to join and have a whole set of rules they must agree too.

Though admittedly we are loose with the term 'furries' lol but we all enjoy to some degree the art shared there which is first what ya see in my gallery and then what else everyone shares.

While I'm fine with a liberal showing up, will even make liberal friends (have in RL) just fine, I have found online they often are often not interested in even discussion. More often then not they expect that they bring up their side, you must come to their side and you will convert or your insert one of their many meaningless insults here. Their supposed values of being open minded only goes one way, their idea's of tolerance only goes one way, both are often used to mislead and actually mean you adopt their views or else.

Face to face in RL I find its a little easier to talk to people on the other side, one girl, a hard core lesbian liberal, we could poke fun at each others side, or at our own side and laugh and work together just fine. We talk about our fav shows and life, spiders lol and more. Its sad that is not the norm though now a days. She did not expect me to convert, nor I her, and she was not a cultist afraid to say anything that did not tow her party's line. And when she learned I was fine with her being a liberal, and I did not expect her to convert, we where able to chat, debate a little like civilized humans and not walk away with seething hatred for either. You know as it should be.

My group and I are fine if one is a liberal, as long as they are fine that we are conservatives, and we are under zero obligation to convert or agree with their side. As they are not obligated to agree or convert to ours. But as I mentioned before.... online, it often is not the case. Even though there is much more to life then political views.

I absolutely agree and second this as I’ve seen first hand myself.

“More often then not they expect that they bring up their side, you must come to their side and you will convert or your insert one of their many meaningless insults here. Their supposed values of being open minded only goes one way, their idea's of tolerance only goes one way, both are often used to mislead and actually mean you adopt their views or else.“

Even when I was on their side they always tried to force and even threatened me to have the PRECISE mindset and views meaning dictate how my life should be who I should hate and don’t hate, support or don’t support, Hell even vote or don’t vote. And whenever I say no well I was called a racist, sexiest, a white supremacist, a Nazi, and all that vile crap. And that’s not even the tip of the iceberg of examples I’ve seen and experienced both online and in real life.

I've noticed that more and more, how they will attack their own yeah. This is part of why they have begun to adopt the cult title. You do things their way, you think their way, you behave their way. Should you dare to do otherwise your just as bad as the enemy which is anyone who thinks differently.

I know there are bad actors on my side as well, those who think they can say anything and nothing will happen which is its on brand of problems. I used to be a centrist honestly, extreme's of either is bad after all. But well.... that's long been shifted to solid right/conservative lol

Now I know there are liberals out there who are not this way, liberals who can be civilized human beings, and those I'm cool with. We can share interests work together be friends game, and politics never needs to even show. Our values might be different but hey, we are all human and not clones. Could a argument even happen from time to time? Sure, and that is ok.

Im close friends with a few liberals and I've always held the belief that every side has their goods, bads, and uglies.

And your right that should you dare to do otherwise your just as bad as the enemy. Ive met one liberal left wing extremists on here who went as far as to say only the left matters and have never done anything evil, and anyone who was so much as a little right deserved to be hunted down and murdered and that anyone center was just as bad because they didn't take the right side.

Its how the term fascists lost its meaning, now and days its used to refer to anyone who thinks differently then them even to the slightest degree.

Very true, how we ensure that the bad and ugliest do not define us is being able to call them out even on our own side. Failer to do so means you will become defined by them.

Ironic but a common thought pattern I've been seeing. The same people who claim to be empathetic, humanitarian, anti-racist, anti-hate ect ect, are often the biggest projectors of those very problems. Those that claim your hateful, are often the ones who have the most hate, those who claim your judgemental... really should look at a mirror lol.

But yeah, to keep it on topic, and not hopefully risk too much trouble here, as long as the person can be a human, agree we are not clones, I can get along with just fine. Because at the end of the day, if both enjoy shooting bugs in earth defense force? Cool. Maybe do some halo, or some earth 2150. (I'm a gamer lol)
I commission artists who clearly value different things then me at times, yet need I let that get in the way of a fruitful business partnership? I don't see why it should. I don't force my stuff on him, he don't force his on me, I work with him on stuff we both enjoy and.... that's what matters.

I wish that was the case allot with many others these days. Sadly it's rare.

Adding to this with a journal I made quite a while ago: https://www.furaffinity.net/journal/11177993/

Even though the linked journal is more focused on power-play and individuals being dicks in general, folks online rarely realise that their behaviour becomes an associating point to the communities they are members of. When one sees a twitter profile with an excessive amount of queer flags, or conversely a conservative with an awful amount of MAGA merchandise on their Ford pickup, you associate those frankly superficial elements to their respective communities as a whole. These sorts of attention seekers don't actually contribute any meaningful discourse to their communities, but rather, they harm them.

Agreed, and while superficial they start becoming red flags for others on the opposite side and even for their own at times too. There are reasons stereo types are a thing thanks to common factors often showing with similar signs. But this is also why calling out the bad actors, being willing to denounce one of 'your own' is so important. Show you don't approve of that action, show you don't agree with that statement, blind loyalty to them and agreeing only magnifies the problem and enables the bad actors to continue doing their thing.

And that is why I wrote this journal, knowing full well that the furry fandom is not a monolith (I mean duh). I've spoken to conservative people, both older AND younger than me both IRL and on Discord VC and while I might disagree with them from time to time, we are still friends and talking shit when its not about politics.

I'm centre-left, yet I have disagreed with those on the left. Likewise, conservatives do and can disagree with fellow conservatives as well. I understand that there are systemic and discriminatory forces hurting people (some more than others), but there is a difference between immediate forceful imposition of policy/beliefs on someone so much so that it feels like oppression on their end.

The biggest and best way to handle disagreements is being able to come to a understanding that we won't always see eye to eye. How that is handled allows for disagreements, debates even arguments to happen. And leaves the doors the widest for both sides to maybe come to see the others perspective. Maybe not convert, but you don't need to be in someones shoes to grasp at least some understanding of why they think they way they do. I'm a straight white male, I knew a gay guy face to face and when I learned his story, ok, yeah I can see where he might be coming from. Do I support being gay? No, did he feel judged? No, we hung out just fine anyway. He was the first guy to let me try my first ever ATV.... and maybe crash his dirt bike into the fence XD

I agree, just because one sees things differently, does not mean they need to force that view. My gay freind knew my views and I knew his. Never needed to be the foundation of our friendship though. And frankly politics never should be. Nor should it be allowed to become the wind that blows over said relations. With ones side, friends, or towards the other. We are all human, not clones, expecting others to come over because ya said so is only going to result in closed doors and polarizing of the sides. Seen enough of that RL already.... never mind the internet lol

I knew about one group of furries that were "right wing", and they were very cultish in their behavior. Beyond that, I've seen a lot of what the right wing has/wants to do and the best way to describe them is a bunch of hurt, neglected people doubling down on what hurts them

I enjoy political discourse to a degree, but you have to be wary about who you talk politics with; you get people on both ends that can get rather fanatical. Admittedly, I have seen more on the left jump to insults; however, this is likely because of having lived in California. Given that California is mostly left, seeing more extremists from the left is just statistically more likely.

A big driving point in discourse is that a lot of people operate on some caricature of the other side rather than actually knowing what they are like. and will often use that caricature as a justification. Social media and the short attention span of people have not helped matters. As people lose nuance to whatever sound bite the media uses to rage-bait people for views and clicks.

Personally, I am best described as fiscally conservative, socially liberal.

I took political science as a minor subject in university, as I do love political discourse. I do agree in your point that people operate on some caricature of the other side usually perpetuated by media with a bias/agendum.

From my experience, the vast majority of people are a mix between left and right on individual issues; it just sucks that today's media cycle thrives on bad political engagement to the point that even stating "let's try to reason with the other side" is seen as "enabling the enemy".

"the vast majority of people are a mix between left and right"

Exactly, people are complicated, and to often generalization occures, and nuances are lost.

"let's try to reason with the other side" is seen as "enabling the enemy".

This is one of the major reasons its so hard for either side to work with the other, or even learn to understand where the other is coming from.

I take them when I can get them.