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Stagnation... and a lot of whining...
2 months ago
General
I think I'm lost at this point
I've been drawing for 8 years already and while technically one can say that I'm improved my skill, I don't think I can fool myself and deny it anymore. Improvements are mostly about the rendering in general, all other aspects are in a terrible state.
Yes, I must admit it, 8 years passed, and I have zero Idea what am I even doing. I can sometimes stare at the screen for hours, seeing that things are wrong, but don't understand how to fix it. It's like my hands are constantly doesn't do what I want, and my perception misinterpret the information.
No matter how much I learned the theory, did practice sketches, I somehow just was unable to apply the knowledge I have, It's like, I've learned the thing, I did some practice, but when it comes to the real work either I just can't use it properly or I can't use it at all.
In the end, I've made the worst mistake in my life, I decided to continue doing this shit with the thought: "I'll learn with practice". And I've been doing that all this time.
Sometimes I think I just should have dropped it long time ago, and spent my time on something I can do better.
When it all began...
I guess it was about the last year when the realization started to putting this pressure on me, and I was trying to suppress it as much as I can. But of course it didn't happen a year ago, but much, much earlier. I guess it happened from the very first day. I never had any interesting projects and never talked to anyone. In general, I somehow lived those 8 years in a somewhat isolation environment.
This brings another question: For who I did all of this? Since I haven't talked to anyone, therefore I couldn't do it for others. Was it at least for myself? I don't know, and I'm not sure if it was.
Want a fun fucking fact? I barely knew English when I started posting. Yup... my knowledge were enough to understand the UI, use software and websites, but any conversation was impossible. I guess it also made a big impact on how I ended up like this.
The idea
As I already said, I never had any projects. All my illustrations are fully separate, and doesn't have any common idea. And this is what my gallery is. Just a bunch of random images.
This brings issues with ideas for new illustrations. What will it be? What I want it to be? The answer is: "I have no idea".
And I guess that's the reason I don't like my drawings. I was trying to suppress this, but it only made things worse. Problems needs to be solved. The more time it passes, the worse the situation gets. And, not only I delayed solving this problem, I just prefer to pretend it doesn't exist at all.
Again, the worst mistake in my life.
Out of place
I guess, my preferences and interests were out of place even when all this began, and 8 years of isolative behavior didn't help at all. Even as a child, I was slow when it comes to trends. Never was able to fully understand them, and it was always too late when I even realize there's some trend is going. I simply don't know what people are interested in, I never could understand, and not sure if at any point of time, I would be able to.
Most of my life I basically was alone, and I was perfectly fine with that. I had no one to talk among my circles in real life, and... I guess I was too afraid to talk to someone on the internet, so I put myself in a role of silent watcher or spectator, who had no idea what is going on.
Do I even like to draw?
Hm... it's a complicated question. I can definitely say I don't dislike it, that's for sure. But, can I even give a precise answer to the question: "Do I like to draw?", I don't know. At the current point I can't distinguish, I can't answer because I'm if fact don't like it so much, or because I just don't like my current workflow and results?
Right now I think the real reason is the second option, but I'm not sure if I just fool myself again. More and more I question myself, what do I even like to do, what I want to do... and I am even able to do. And I can't give an answer even to myself. It might look like absurd, but the best answer I can give to myself is "I don't know".
I hate what I'm doing?
Don't get me wrong. I DON'T want to say I hate what I'm doing. Well, I'm not about fooling myself. That's a terrible thing, and I must have dealt with that years ago.
Overhaul, I usually avoid using the verb "hate". It means quite strong emotional reaction. Most of the time I'm perfectly fine with just the "don't like"/"dislike".
To the point, no, I don't hate drawing, and I don't dislike it.
What's next?
Yet, there's no way to solve a problem when you don't have a starting point, so right now I'm going with the assumption that I don't like my current workflow, and therefore I don't get the result I like. At least this is something I have influence over. But even having a starting point, I still don't know where should I move next and what results I want to get. So, I'm still lost.
I'll likely continue posting as usual. If I just lock in myself, I'm afraid I'll push myself into a trap. For now, I'll continue to use my usual workflow, because that's what I'm familiar with. At the same time, I might do some experiments, and maybe will start some projects.
One of the options I have is to drop all of this, all 8 years, and find something else to do. This is too radical option, and I will use it only as the last resort, yet I'm not sure if I ever throw it from the list of possible actions. At least not in the nearest time.
My biggest problem is not that I don't know what I can do, but what I have and need to do. I just can't make decision.
Ending
I guess that was everything I wanted to say. If you really read all of this, like... REALLY read ALL of THIS... so... I'm surprised you survived so much whining. Thanks... I guess?
Do I want someone to feel sorry for me? No. I did mistakes, and now I pay for them and have to deal with the consequences.
For who was all of this? The same answer as before. I just don't know.
Maybe I just want to have a wall of text, where I explain how pathetic I am to make myself feel bad. XD
That was a joke, btw. On the other hand, I don't know what I'm fooling myself about and what not.
I've been drawing for 8 years already and while technically one can say that I'm improved my skill, I don't think I can fool myself and deny it anymore. Improvements are mostly about the rendering in general, all other aspects are in a terrible state.
Yes, I must admit it, 8 years passed, and I have zero Idea what am I even doing. I can sometimes stare at the screen for hours, seeing that things are wrong, but don't understand how to fix it. It's like my hands are constantly doesn't do what I want, and my perception misinterpret the information.
No matter how much I learned the theory, did practice sketches, I somehow just was unable to apply the knowledge I have, It's like, I've learned the thing, I did some practice, but when it comes to the real work either I just can't use it properly or I can't use it at all.
In the end, I've made the worst mistake in my life, I decided to continue doing this shit with the thought: "I'll learn with practice". And I've been doing that all this time.
Sometimes I think I just should have dropped it long time ago, and spent my time on something I can do better.
When it all began...
I guess it was about the last year when the realization started to putting this pressure on me, and I was trying to suppress it as much as I can. But of course it didn't happen a year ago, but much, much earlier. I guess it happened from the very first day. I never had any interesting projects and never talked to anyone. In general, I somehow lived those 8 years in a somewhat isolation environment.
This brings another question: For who I did all of this? Since I haven't talked to anyone, therefore I couldn't do it for others. Was it at least for myself? I don't know, and I'm not sure if it was.
Want a fun fucking fact? I barely knew English when I started posting. Yup... my knowledge were enough to understand the UI, use software and websites, but any conversation was impossible. I guess it also made a big impact on how I ended up like this.
The idea
As I already said, I never had any projects. All my illustrations are fully separate, and doesn't have any common idea. And this is what my gallery is. Just a bunch of random images.
This brings issues with ideas for new illustrations. What will it be? What I want it to be? The answer is: "I have no idea".
And I guess that's the reason I don't like my drawings. I was trying to suppress this, but it only made things worse. Problems needs to be solved. The more time it passes, the worse the situation gets. And, not only I delayed solving this problem, I just prefer to pretend it doesn't exist at all.
Again, the worst mistake in my life.
Out of place
I guess, my preferences and interests were out of place even when all this began, and 8 years of isolative behavior didn't help at all. Even as a child, I was slow when it comes to trends. Never was able to fully understand them, and it was always too late when I even realize there's some trend is going. I simply don't know what people are interested in, I never could understand, and not sure if at any point of time, I would be able to.
Most of my life I basically was alone, and I was perfectly fine with that. I had no one to talk among my circles in real life, and... I guess I was too afraid to talk to someone on the internet, so I put myself in a role of silent watcher or spectator, who had no idea what is going on.
Do I even like to draw?
Hm... it's a complicated question. I can definitely say I don't dislike it, that's for sure. But, can I even give a precise answer to the question: "Do I like to draw?", I don't know. At the current point I can't distinguish, I can't answer because I'm if fact don't like it so much, or because I just don't like my current workflow and results?
Right now I think the real reason is the second option, but I'm not sure if I just fool myself again. More and more I question myself, what do I even like to do, what I want to do... and I am even able to do. And I can't give an answer even to myself. It might look like absurd, but the best answer I can give to myself is "I don't know".
I hate what I'm doing?
Don't get me wrong. I DON'T want to say I hate what I'm doing. Well, I'm not about fooling myself. That's a terrible thing, and I must have dealt with that years ago.
Overhaul, I usually avoid using the verb "hate". It means quite strong emotional reaction. Most of the time I'm perfectly fine with just the "don't like"/"dislike".
To the point, no, I don't hate drawing, and I don't dislike it.
What's next?
Yet, there's no way to solve a problem when you don't have a starting point, so right now I'm going with the assumption that I don't like my current workflow, and therefore I don't get the result I like. At least this is something I have influence over. But even having a starting point, I still don't know where should I move next and what results I want to get. So, I'm still lost.
I'll likely continue posting as usual. If I just lock in myself, I'm afraid I'll push myself into a trap. For now, I'll continue to use my usual workflow, because that's what I'm familiar with. At the same time, I might do some experiments, and maybe will start some projects.
One of the options I have is to drop all of this, all 8 years, and find something else to do. This is too radical option, and I will use it only as the last resort, yet I'm not sure if I ever throw it from the list of possible actions. At least not in the nearest time.
My biggest problem is not that I don't know what I can do, but what I have and need to do. I just can't make decision.
Ending
I guess that was everything I wanted to say. If you really read all of this, like... REALLY read ALL of THIS... so... I'm surprised you survived so much whining. Thanks... I guess?
Do I want someone to feel sorry for me? No. I did mistakes, and now I pay for them and have to deal with the consequences.
For who was all of this? The same answer as before. I just don't know.
Maybe I just want to have a wall of text, where I explain how pathetic I am to make myself feel bad. XD
That was a joke, btw. On the other hand, I don't know what I'm fooling myself about and what not.
I resonate with the whole, 'out of place' sentiment you stated, I have been around for what feels a while and feel like I've flubbed major opportunities to get closer with the community, due to past baggage on my end, don't know if that is similar in quality to how you mentioned, but the feeling of always being a step behind, not knowing whats going on, when unsaid, feeling that you've only touched trends as they've cooled, and not knowing the projection of one's work often get thought about for me. Also how that factors with the audience and how cathartic it will end, and if the time and effort invested will feel justified. Sometimes I feel heartbroken like crunching the numbers is revealing that I'm wasting my time and the time of those who are watching my attempts.
I do bring up restrictions, because that does help with forcing me to post or interact in spite of some of these feelings. In my case, I don't mind some of my procedural attempts at work, I do mind the quality and discomfort of posting it, but restrict myself in those expectations to see it through to see what value I do get from the equation.
Have you seen what portions of your art you are willing to abandon or remix to further the catharsis in it? Have you ever tested merit in making a larger body of work, or attempting to follow or create a trend to see how you emotionally respond to such restrictions? If all that is a bit much, maybe a brush tip challenge or something could spice things up in a fun way ^^
Idk, I feel for you because I've been going through a lot of the same, and feel that not responding is unnecessary isolation on my end.
Not sure what do you mean by restrictions. Really.
The issue is usually that I can imagine what I want to draw and how, but it's like my body refuses to listen to me. I even tried to do something like planing, breaking the imaginary illustration into parts, and trying to reorganize it to the way I will paint. Doesn't work either. But maybe that is the issue, overloaded my brain with too much mental work.
Of course, I can't say does your case the same as mine, but I can speculate that they at least have similarities, since we came to similar situations. From what I've seen, over the past decade the shift occurred, people less engage in something, and more focused to create as much as possible, ignoring quality. In the end, everything oversaturated.
I can't talk to people older than me, because people from mid of 20th century are often quite arrogant, just because you're younger, and I can't talk to people even of my age, because it feels like I'm already too old for them.
Somehow, I didn't like this superfast pace even as a child.
About what I don't like about my works? In general everything. To be more clear, It's actually hard to even squeeze some emotional reaction from me. XD
I barely touched that, and not sure if it's possible to understand my position from those words. I don't understand how people constantly use "hate" and "love" words, because they refer to quite strong emotional reactions. At least to me, experiencing something like that for some period of time is mentally exhausting, how do people live like that non-stop, I have no idea.
That's also why I can't follow trends, and why I always steps back. I understand that trends are based on strong emotional reaction, but I'm, somehow, unable to experience that.
About larger work... Well, the illustration with dragon and waterfall, was likely the largest from the last time. I'd say this one is an exception, because I can't say I don't like it, but on the other hand it's more of a statistical error. And that's the main issue here. Something that I might like I create accidentally.
Of course, as many other artists I make a lot of different things under the hood, that is intended for practicing and experimenting. And since I can't rely on my emotional reactions, the only thing left for me is to try to statistically assume, how to adjust my work, I guess. Now I feel like some kind of AI. They also rely on statistical predictions.
Of course, I can see what I don't like, and I know what I need to improve, I just can't do that. Maybe if I calm down, and stop overthinking, things will go easier.
In any way, thanks for your reply.
When I say restrictions, I literally mean in any manner in your process from any angle, both public and private. For example, you restrict what you view as a threshold of expected emotion via statistics. That restriction is leaving you feeling overly analytical in your approach by your appraisal. Just as simply as regulating expected emotional catharsis that way, you could in turn, choose to restrict your expectation of audience resonance, and instead restrict your view to what you want to project for self-satisfaction outside of viewership. If numbers aren't making you feel, and resonance is low, why continue pursuit in that manner, that is a sunk-cost fallacy running it's coarse if your pushing stagnated habits that don't achieve their goals set out from the start, in this case, making you feel for the piece or its byproducts when posting them, for catharsis.
It doesn't have to be on that level either, you can restrict your selection of what you feel is worth posting, to more than your comfortable scope of polish, to adhere to more experimentation of expression or theming. Sometimes asking yourself what you want to see and gauging your own response and detecting dissonance with audience expectation and figuring if holding those numbers is more important than resonance with your work as a whole.
You say there is whole aspect to trends you cannot resonate with either. I suspect that factoring success over emotion might be a root cause, and sorry if that is spoken out of misunderstanding, but at the end of the day, if your tackling a trend more for success of interaction, than the novelty of the concept, on a personal level, then you've already failed yourself emotionally, by not factoring that as the root issue of resonance with the concept displayed. If you want to post to feel, and you bench feelings of resonance, to find catharsis in the numbers involved, to show success, then of course that will not produce feelings of any meaningful vibes to you when and if it becomes successful, because you tackled the journey with no personal feeling to begin with.
If your exhibition only caters to generating expected responses with known processes that have stagnated for you, then simply adhering to them for the numbers, when that isn't working, is a bit of a tepid solution that hinges on luck of statistical analysis. Another aspect that hasn't been discussed that I don't know how you feel about, is attempting to start your own trend based off your interests you know make you feel. If the thought of that reaching success does not appeal, I would probably digest, and analyze why things you know you like are not an interest to be factored into catharsis over number crunching. After all, you seem to be wording trends like it's something you hitch a ride on, instead of piloting your own experience with, and that instantly knocks a lot of intimacy with your work on a public level, out of the equation, that could be a payoff, because the feeling of risk is too high, or feelings of rejection are too unpalatable.
Idk, I tend to look into how things are presented a bit too much with my own understanding, and my last goal is to offend or try and spotlight what I see form my personal view of things, without full knowledge of the situation, but it looks like you've settled for public stagnation of expectation, to facilitate feelings based off success without the risk of scrutiny for your more personal approaches of feeling and artistic processes.
If the topic feels uncomfortable at all to mull over, I would probably look into why possible solutions on a personal level. Your art is of a high class, and the subjects, motifs, and framing are consistent and polished, but if they lack feeling on your end, and you do not resonate with what you feel the public wants to see at all, because it's based on numbers, then how daring are you to venture into more experimental expression of your art that you feel personally resonant with, and see how sharing that feels after keeping your personal showcase of what you want to see in the moment at hand. Sometimes containing ones self in a box of expectations is what stagnates the output, if you feel that motifs or process, or look is not worth projecting, I would ask yourself why you don't feel any different about it in private practice, but you can't bring yourself to post in public, is it because ideas are too sensitive to attempt resonance, or is the feeling completely devoid after a long attempt at changing things heavily?
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to banter with me over it. Sometimes, people get rubbed the wrong way by how I approach topics a bit bluntly sometimes from a psychological level that may feel accusatory, but it is simply honest musing that I acknowledge could be far off base, or filtered through my understanding too heavily and shut down on me, and I thank you for giving me more than enough response to try and figure more of your situation out, from an outside perspective gaining clarity!
sorry for the late response, I don't check on my socials as much nowadays.
"Your art is of a high class" - thanks for the compliment, but besides not the worst rendering, there aren't really anything special. There is a chance I might be too strict to my own work, but I don't think it's that way.
And yeah, I know I failed... well... in many different places at many different times. In some way, I think I already used to have these thoughts in my head. It's not like I can just throw them away, and if I could, would it solve any problems and mistakes I've made in the past? I don't think so.
About trends... to put my experience with them in other words: I don't understand how this social mechanism works in general. How comes something come up, and people immediately hyping almost all at once. A week later, once I noticed that something is happening, the trend is basically over, and I just don't understand what exactly happened.
The stuff I usually don't show is mostly just sketches for practice, and maybe experiments. There aren't really any meaning behind that. Even if that's an unfinished artwork (what happens really rarely), then it's because I found the illustration is even more boring than usual and don't consider it worthy to continue the work. Usually it stops at the stage of a sketch and goes into a pile of sketches, and will be forgotten forever.
But overhaul, I try to lessen my expectation. The logic is simple: "If I can't achieve the result I could consider good-looking, then I think it doesn't make sense to bother myself about it anyway".
I don't mean I'll just do any shit and post it online. It's more like, I got tired of constantly being in an endless loop of "I don't like it", to end up with another boring illustration, because I might have stripped all potentially interesting ideas.
We'll see how this will end.
And don't be afraid to "rub me the wrong way". It's not so easy to do it, and even if that would be the case, then I just stop conversation and leave. It's too exhausting and meaningless to have an argument with someone, and my mental state is already too exhausted and overloaded from all the nonsense and bullshit I see around every day.
I do have to testify against the self-assessment of nothing special as a pedigree for your art. From your choices in lighting, your process and stuff like motif and anatomy, I can usually pick your work out of a crowd consistently, off feel alone as it leaves a unique impression. I think having a unique impression indeed make works special, regardless of the resonance to those aspects that set it apart from the crowd. I would break out the 'one mans trash' proverb, but that does a disservice, labeling art made in earnest, as trash. Pygmalion effect, and to each their own...
Also thinking back on it, with failing, I do mean in the moment and not in the past, in general, I know the past is set. If someone is assessing something in the moment and asks the harder questions, and if they like the answers or not, was basically what i was sort of meaning to get at with all that portion. If actions don't satisfy in the past, reasoning it out, is not to fix those acts, but to prepare to not fall into a pattern that perpetuates them. Finding flexibility in those distinctions for clarity can be important, as locking those actions out as solved without a proper solution and running avoidance instead, doesn't leave for a resolution that keeps those same results at bay, without dismissing too much of the initial concept to begin with and preserving it.
As for trends, I think an ugly truth of it all is that it is opportunistically attempting to resonate with an idea in an attempt to pull attention of that success to one's self a lot of the time, sometimes rifting off ideas in a way that loses the original meaning but gains a different personality entirely under the same motif to gain as much attention. Trends are social memetics at play, and driven by discernment of how material pulls a crowd in, through novelty and memetics (ability to rift off an idea). In the end the material of a trend doesn't matter as much as those points, and if that process isn't fun, understandable or fulfilling then following trends isn't enjoyable for the individual, and in some cases not compatible for some, as the logic that backs it doesn't compute with an outlook that doesn't fully envelop the act of taking attention of a concept for one's self at the most efficient pace possible.
I'd say the flip-side to trends, that is much more achievable is trend setting vs following them. Yeah most material is referential or inspired, but that mindset of choosing to take the time to pull those resources to start the clock yourself on a trend 'train' of thought, instead of jumping on an established 'train' would be easier in scope of catharsis and timing. With the later you need to see what is popular, how well it resonates with you, and have a projection on if it will gain more attention and if the material is easily riffed off of, without being deemed copying. I for one, do not excel at any of those notes, that my mind flavors the task in, so I know not to expect much from following trends in terms of catharsis.
Oh lastly with the whole restriction thing, have you tried it with process portions like brushes, layers, or what order you do with your process to see if the results ring true with more resonance with you? If not, maybe it would at least make you feel novelty from the attempt?
About my art. I don't understand how can you differentiate it's my art, when it seems like my art style is changing every couple of months. And I guess if you've been followed to someone for quite some time, I guess you'll be able to pick up their art from among the other in any way. Especially if their art style doesn't jump every couple of months. And there aren't any motifs in most of my illustrations. Anatomy isn't really that good too. Lighting and colors aren't really that good, but perspective is the weakest part.
About trends, in my opinion, creating them as hard as following. Looking at how random they usually are, and how on modern social media users can only notice something in fractions of a second or fully ignore it.
About the last part. Most of the time I work on one layer. I might keep certain objects separated. I also use layers during sketching, but barely use blending modes, and I merge them once I'm ready for the painting stage. At the end I use Krita's filter layers for additional color corrections and effects.
Basically, nothing fancy as some other artists usually do.