I try to talk online with people who like the same things. Then I decide, based on the reactions, whether to stop or not.
Often it doesn't work, sometimes we're surprised.
If you want to talk with your community about your art, you can create groups on Telegram or Discord. But you don't want to do the moderation ?

Having a channel sounds Interesting at first glance... But I am a cynic at hart and believe that if you give people the total freedom to express themselves you are providing a playground for scammers, spammers and grifters. Naturally not everybody is like that, but it only takes a few people to ruin everybody's fun. It's why most online forums have and need some level of moderation. I also dislike the thought of playing the role of censor. Also, as somebody mentioned below, a porn thread is probably not the ideal place to seek meaningful connections.

Yes, it's not a good idea to start with porn, You might encounter people who don't have the same expectations. But I also saw that you don't just do NSFW. You could talk about your characters, their lore, their world. I sometimes had some long conversations just going into details of my OC.

Afterwards, there will always be some kind of danger in exposing oneself, if I can put it that way. There will be disappointments, and it requires a lot of effort, especially since it has to come from within; people won't necessarily make the first move.
You also have to listen to your instincts, If you feel, without needing to explain, that someone isn't good for you, you should listen to them. And try it when you feel comfortable with someone.

On the plus side, you get an answer here. Some people have taken the time to answer you, but maybe it won't amount to anything. But some people have interest and consideration.

I'm a bit of a cynical person myself and yeah, i agree a group chat is not the way to go.
I've learned to open up more over the years but that is largely because i meet people i chat with about things we have in common.
If you make a big group you'll get a bunch of fans who adore you for the stuff you draw but, can't really carry a conversation or are only interested in chatting about porn and anything that starts to deviate from it they'll go silent or have literally nothing to add, i don't mean to be rude to them but it feels at times like i talk with NPCs who i asked about stuff outside of their dialogue tree.
You need the kinds of people you can seamlessly go from chatting about current world affairs or hobbies into just hot furry fetish stuff with. Friends you're on an equal plain with and can be yourself with, not maintain some facade of being your OC except at times when you might feel in the mood to hornypost.

There's been way too many times when i see people start a discord for themselves and it just drops dead. People in there don't really click with each other so there's no living community. Its a circus ground where you're the main attraction and when you're not on stage everything is just dead. Those places its easy for the "I'm an artist, commission me" scammers and just spam bots to join and since people aren't active and paying attention, they slip through with ease. So yeah, unless you're a social butterfly i wouldn't recommend any public chat or group.

What i had to do was take the step myself at times. I was lucky to have quite a few people i know approach me first, but other times i started chatting lightly with people by joining some artists' art stream, or sending a note to an artist i looked up to. Though a ground rule there i'd say is:
If they haven't paid attention to you, don't reach out. Because naturally most artists are quite busy and they get a lot of people DM:ing them at random.

But if you're a fan of xXx_MacroDragonDongsArts_xXx for example and notice that he faved some of the images you posted, and started following you. Then that could be a good reason to reach out because he's aware of you and you've got a mutual enjoyment for each others' stuff. If the interest is one-sided its likely not going to work sadly.

Man, you are so right with that first and second paragraph. like you were readding my mind. The sign of people clicking with each other is being able to jump from topic to topic seamesly and go on wild tangents without being annoying or having to manicure your language around. One can only wish for finding that sort of person...

A social butterfly i am most certaintly not. It's why i did not allow chatting on my art dump channel. Kind of is annoying that the various reactions are all anonymous though.

I reached out to a few artists in my day, some went better than others... and had some non artist connections from the fandome too... but in the end everybody moved on in one way or another. ANd I am kind of at a loss how to find new people.

And yeah, i totally get artists being super busy... i have basicly given up actually talking with other artists because i kind of see on my own skinn how limited one is for time when you have a hobby like art. It has also gotten to the point that I watch too many people who's art i like that... none of them stand out. Just recently my art inbox on FA had gotten so overwhelming that i just couldn't get around to even viewing all of it. For the first time since joing FA i had to just nuke my inbox.

Takes one to know one, like i said i was cynical myself.
The thing i've found with a lot of the artist and commissioner people i befriended over the years is sometimes it can be a simple image you've drawn, and you've learned that "This artist friend of mine really likes stomping/crushing stuff so i should share my sketch/image with them"
The most common thing i saw with people who had a hard time chatting with others was that they didn't like the kinds of conversations that started like:
>"Hey"
<"Hi"
>"How are you?"
<"Good, you?"
>"I'm good"
And then nothing happens.
So, i simply stopped going for those greetings, people see them they more or less disregard you right away.
Of course you're courteous and introductory the first time but pretty quickly you should gradually switch to just jump into conversations. Could be something simple as sharing an image you thought a specific detail or POV were kinda cool with some other artist friend. Let it lead into another conversation gradually.

I think as a commissioner though i've kinda been able to meet people in ways you otherwise wouldn't have approached.
One friend i talk to quite often was an artist that i messaged out of the blue because they had a comic i thought was really nice, but it was never concluded, and like 2 years had passed since then. So i messaged them asking about it, they said they'd sketched the pages out, but interest in the comics were kinda low so that bummed them out and they just never finished them. So i offered to pay for them to be completed.
Obviously, that really stuck out to them that a project they were passionate about, but followers weren't so they abandoned it now had someone willing to pay for it to be finished.
Then once it was finished, rather than leave it at that and part ways, we remained in touch.
Its simply showing a genuine interest for people, be it their hobbies, maybe something going on in their life or something they are working on.

The important part though of finding the kinda people i mentioned at the start, is simply knowing you don't have to talk to them on like a daily basis.
Sometimes you can message them two days in a row, some other times a week could pass between messages and just letting things continue as if there was no gap inbetween.
You mold that kind of relationship over time by just interacting with someone, most people adapt and probably even find it nice that they can be kinda relaxed around you. You're a ear when they want someone who'll listen, being cynical has its pros and cons the pros being that you aren't just blowing smoke up someones' ass which a lot of people appreciate. But the cons is you'll need to learn when to hold your tongue. There's a time and place for certain things and some things you just have to keep to yourself.

And yeah, i totally get artists being super busy... i have basicly given up actually talking with other artists because i kind of see on my own skinn how limited one is for time when you have a hobby like art. It has also gotten to the point that I watch too many people who's art i like that... none of them stand out. Just recently my art inbox on FA had gotten so overwhelming that i just couldn't get around to even viewing all of it. For the first time since joing FA i had to just nuke my inbox.

That's the thing, you recognize your own busy schedule and they have one themselves so, start those small check-ins ever now and then. Don't go in thinking they expect a hour long non-stop dialogue.
Share a picture you're working on that you think they'll like, message them when they post something saying you liked the picture or maybe some specific detail about it. Maybe if it has their character in it you ask about their character, be interested in them.

The things you mention are obstacles, but obstacles can always be navigated. Sometimes it requires you to think or approach them differently but they're never an impossibility.

Not to mention, the answer to "how are you ?" is usually "not good, but you don't actually want to hear that so I'll just say everything's fine, thanks". It is kind of an insipid form of greeting when hardly anybody actually means it. People don't want to hear about your problems. That's for therapists who get payed for it.

Well i never commissioned people so that avenue of interaction is entierly alien to me ( i also struggle to even think of something Id' want drawn i couldn't just draw myself. Admitedlyt other people could do it much better.... but that would just kind of demoralize me more. SO.... nah.

Having had a few personal projects in the past, i learned quite quicklly that the sens of hurt you get when you put your heart in to something and people either don't care or make fun if it is too painfull to bear. So i never tried to do anything remotly serious with my art since. At least if it's silly and not taken seriously, then when people react accordingly to it it's at least expected.

Showing genuine interest better actually be genuine though.... people are generally really good at sniffing out ulteriour motives on you. Or maybe that's just the paranoia talking.

I did learn that the hard way that you have to give people their space. Back when i first started going online and reaching out to people i was clingy like that, needing to talk every day. Yeah, some people need their space, specially if they have busy schedules. Now having a busy schedule myself I can absolutelly appreciate that.

As for sharing art... well at the moment I am basicly putting everything i draw out there for everybody to see... but i get that there's not really much you can say about macro pose #743. I am aware of the fact that my art doesn't really have anything grand to say. it's literally just porn. But it's not anoying to draw ( most of the time )... and peoiple don't complain about it. Maybe i just need to lower my expectations.

discord didnt even do that well for me and caused me more trouble than it was worth btw... big servers always overwhelmed me with discord spying crud goin on I deleted discord for good

I have to say, some of the most meaningful conversations I had was in NSFW channels as chances are high you talk to a grown up and well, you might just figured out what the person is into, something quite intimate... So what holds you back after that talking about other topics?

Eh, I dunno, my experiances so far with kinks as common ground did not yeald much in the way of results. I had much more luck, statisticly, with peopel who i shared almost nothing in common with kink wise.

In all honesty I wouldn’t know I mainly just try to find connections with people online and irl I do the best I can with what I got and if I find that connection I try to stick with it and maybe try a form new connection for the both of us so we can have more things in common

Hard to even know where to start with people...

Just go out there and start talking with those that interest you, see if you can build friendships with them. It may not always work out, but you'll find some diamonds in the rough. Imo, I would stay away from any kink talk/stuff at first to build up a strong base as you'll run into some that with just find interest in you ONLY for kink reasons and nothing else. In the end, it is what you are looking for ^^

Yeah, I think you are mostly correct about the porn part. I also did not have much luck connecting with people through my art ( which is mostly porn these days ). No idea where you would go to start talking with people nor do I really know what kind of people would interest me? Seems to me like I had a lot less trouble just trying to talk with random people when I started out on the Internet. Versus now when it feels like there's a brick wall in the way.

Well, it really depends how you and the other person is like. I had a decent amount of luck connecting with some through their art which was mostly porn, but it was made possible cause they too were looking for genuine people and our likes mostly aligned. And for you, you could always connect through your macro side of art. It seems like you personally enjoy some wholesome macro stuffs since that's the situations you tend to draw Draghi in. In the end, it is all trial and error and what you yourself want and are looking for. You just need to find those that appreciate your art and personality while still being genuine ^^

yeah.... that does sound like a pretty tall order, but I guess that's just the way things are. Finding genuine people... my kingdom for one of those, ey?

It takes time thats for sure, but youll eventually find some that youll be happy with and will help fill in that void. It may not fill the irl void, but it will the online one thats for sure. Whats important though is you just be yourself and share in the things you enjoy ^^. I mean, you seem to like dragons and dinos so you could always start there ^^

I'm kind of already sharing basicly everything i do... but opening that art dump channel actually served to successfully reduce engagement from a couple of comments every now and then to maybe a handfull of hearts. It's still nice to get those but the trend downards is definetly dissapointing.

I wouldn't take it to heart. Ive seen many artists take their numbers to heart and provide them with great stress and anxiety. You dont deserve to go through that. You are a fine artist and your works are great ^^. Connect with those that enjoy your work ^^

Yeah.... just need to figure out how. Seems to me that the more I try to share my stuff with people the further i push them away. Really kind of feels like my art is more of a hinderance to meeting new people than it is a bonus.

What makes you say that?

well when i was a compleet nobody it fealt easier to reach out to people. These days I guess I have became more reticent to that.

Well, it could be that some dont share the same interests that you do. Sometimes a blank canvas is better. But again, it is something that will just take awhile. Reach out and delve into other fandoms as well perhaps. Ive found that the macro community at times has a bit too much of an ego problem so I just stay a lurker lol

Just I keep telling myself that I find my group eventually. Until then, I keep trying places like discord and I just keep on doing my thing

Remarkably optimistic worldview. Wish I could be like that.

I mean I have my days where im down but I kinda just pick myself back up eventually and im sure you can too. Just take it a day at a time, do stuff that you like to do.

Im not sure what all your interests are but there’s plenty of discord groups out there that you can hop into, also seen alot of artists set up their own open discord groups, so like there's options if you up for it

I did try the closest locald furry discord group i could fine ( through a quik search ) but.... while there seems to be a lot of people on there, the only active ones seem to be highschoolers. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it's hard to relate to people half your age or even younger. Also doesn't have a NSFW section so i can't really share my art there either.

in my case copious amounts of prescription drugs, therapy, and the happy though the second least painful death can be had for less than $50. I'm neither a happy or healthy person, but eventually you realize there's really only two ways you can deal with problems. Either stop caring what people think and do no harm, or worry yourself to death doing nothing.

if you want some good places you can start finding like minded people, try bluesky, tumblr, mastodon, & pillowfort. they move slow enough you wont feel overwhelmed if you follow a few people. if you want more lively action telegram's furry list(https://www.furry-telegram-groups.net) has a huge list of groups, some of which have discords.

As for talking with normal folks, talk to them just like you would a furry, just leave out the head pats & woofs, and keep it pg13. Keep it polite and most of them will find you delightful.

Therapy is super expensive though. Interesting ideas to start with. I know I tried joining the local ( national ) furry discord.... But I was kind of disappointed? While there seems to be a lot of people there, only a handful of people actually talk... And those that doo, sound like highschoolers. At least what I remember highschoolers talked like back when I was one myself ( naturally with entirely different slang ). It is very intimidating trying to start out talking with people in an established community, as an outsider.

depending on location, you could get government benefits which could cover therapy. that's how I pay for mine. if you live in the USA you can use this chart to see if you qualify to apply: https://www.medicaidplanningassista.....-income-chart/
if you live outside the USA check your local health programs to see if they don't cover therapy, or if you have insurance though your work. all else fails you can hit me up on telegram or discord and I'll be happy to help find you an affordable therapist. if yah wanna chat about other stuff we can try but i'm not a super chatty person, and can't say we share a lot of topics outside of dragons & art and you can only get so far with that.


as for finding groups i'd look less for national level and try more for your local closest big city level. might find more adults in the 25-35 range, if you want folks over 40, you'll probably have to hit a grey muzzle chat(i've been pushed towards them since my 30s). start small, and work your way up.

If you don't mind spending a lot of time listening to normies talk, you can always go and spend some time at the old folks home too. it makes good practice in socializing and you are helping them not feel so lonely too.

Would always be down to chat!

Oh, what topics if I teresting would interest you?

Anything at all. I'd love to hear about the part of the world you are in, and I always like to be an active listener in learning about another person's hobbies and interests.

I just like building connections with folks in other countries and being a chill conversationalist and company. If that sounds nice, I'll DM you my telegram. ^^

Eh, sure, why not. Might as well give it a shot.

That is a freaking weird coincidence! I was thinking about you and your art yesterday!

But I do feel you my friend. I have my own issues with engaging with people. My typical problem is that it's hard for me to strike a conversation. I tend to ask questions that are a bit too safe or surface-level, because I'm worried the conversation might start to feel like an interrogation. But that doesn't make the conversation go well. My typical fallback topic is art or art related stuff. I often base my conversation on the fact that other brave people reach out to me. I don't think I'm brave enough myself to reach out to others. I feel like I might be imposing if I do that. Often enough such conversations last for one or two days just to discover we're not so like-minded as we initially thoughts. Few of them stay for longer becoming friends.

You're touching the topic of normies here. Oh boy. I did have a problem with that, especially right after the divorce. I discovered that all IRL contacts I had were actually people more related with my wife than with me. And again the same pattern happened. I didn't reached out to people, somebody had noticed me in the park doing a very specific activity and invited me to a group of people doing similar stuff. But you know - normies - it's fun to do stuff together but those are not that kind of people I would say 'Hey you know? I love to draw gryphon porn!' So it's always not being myself, always hiding something and playing it safe. That's exhausting to constantly avoid certain topics, topics that are really important for me, like art!

So I really don't know if I can start a relationship all on my own. It's always more about showing off and hoping that someone will notice me. Which is kinda sad if I think about it. I would like to change that.

Oh I have no really skill in engaging in what is referred to as "small talk". I find it maddening to drone on about things that do not interest me. I guess it also doesn't help that I have very narrow interests, even within niche interests. Gaming for instance. I have several coworkers that are also gamers, but they engage and are passionate about type of games I wouldn't be caught dead playing. So even in such a niche field I dug myself an even deeper niche. Art is indeed something that mostly takes up what little free time I have ( and sacrificing sleep in order to be able to engage in it ), but it hasn't managed to lead me to forming any meaningful connections ( with some exceptions of course ). But for the most part it's just a way to get customers, not friends. I'm one of those people who hated being lonely, but not only doesn't mind, but outright needs to be alone regularly ( so I can engage with my art ). So it makes IRL relations very tricky ( not that people are lining up of course ). Online connections are far more flexible.... But it feels like it has gotten much harder to form them... Or I just dont know how to do it anymore.

For me online stuff is also a lot more flexible and they often result in far closer relationships. A lot of them do fall apart but I consider it a natural lifecycle. Few of them remain and I cherish them greatly.

Ever thought about connecting with people while doing art? Like livestreams where you draw? Or some kind of art related Q&A sessions?

no clue why anybody would have questions for me.

As far as streamming goes... again why would people want to see that? I see that a lot of people do it but don't you .... need to also be entertaining for people to watch?

That's just an opportunity for more talkative people to reach out to you . Just brainstorming ideas here, not saying they will work ;)

Im suffering from loneliness too. Mainly because nearly nobody likes driving games as much as I do. I stream but ... Nobody shows up

Yeah, that's the thing about game preferences. Each have their own. And even under the label of "gamer" there is such variety that you can feel entirely alien from other gamers. Personally I like sandbox titles with deep character growth. Things like rimworld or kenshy or Star sector. Or empire building sandbox games ( like distant worlds 2, stellaris or Europe universalist 4 ( with a fantasy mod.... Rl history is boring to me ). I admittedly... Do not share much interest in driving games. The only car game I ever played fully was the original Carmaghedon.

For me its mainly driving sim...

Hello, I enjoy driving games.

we could all team up lol. hehehe.

As long as we all have the same games.

Beam ng drive? Rocket league? Ballistic Ng? Do you like antigravity racers?

Beam ng Drive, yes. No on Rocket League. Never heard of Ballistic NG, but will learn about it. And Antigravity racers? Like Fzero?

Yes

Yes. I love those too. <3

Would ajder be up for a race or something some time?

I don't have much of a competitive streak in me, and I'm also a very sore looser. SO i generally stand away from any sort of PVP gaming experiances. But hey, if you guys enjoy it than please go ahead.

Im more toward simulator and chill non serious chaos.

I have an innate urge to connect intimately with those I get along with, and to share my feelings on subjects for all to see. Out of habit I've left many many comments across the posts I enjoy, and that has attracted many like-minded people to speak with me in turn. I never like to make anyone feel left out for what they enjoy, others are free to discuss their deep desires with me. This has caused me to build quite the following that my art alone couldn't bring. And now I have too many people to talk with all the time, but so many who can be considered close and loving

Yeah, you outgoings talkative people have such an ( unfair ) advantage in that you actually feel the need to engage with people. For introverts ( at least in my case ) engaging with ( new) people is incredibly mentally taxing and has to be done in spite of my I. Er desire to stay away. Gets easier once you actually get to know somebody a bit. But that first hurdle is quite daunting.

I can understand, my social battery isn't too full as of late. I have long spans of wanting to not talk with people. You can perhaps wait for an extrovert to adopt you and pull you into a larger group! At some point you have to push yourself through that exhaustion if you want there to be change in your social life

I think waiting for an extroverto to adopt you is like waiting for a billion dollars to fall in to your lap. Very unlikelly. Saddly I think the only way things will improve is by doing it the hard way.

I meant that in a more humorous way. Sadly indeed, usually the hard way is the only way. But you seem to have quite a few others here willing and happy to speak with you

I wish from all my heart that you find someone worthy one day. Can't give any useful advice, just want you know that I root for you.

thanks.

Hmmm.. Well, I would say reaching out, but I can see how that can be daunting.
I know we tried to chat before. I'm open to chat again. I've had lots of life happen, and I should be able to relate more to ya. If you don't want to do that. Then no worries.
It also depends on what brand of loneliness you've got going on.
If it's just wanting to find someone to hang out with, then there are a host of random Discord servers out there.
If it's more intimate one-on-one, sexy or not, that takes a bit of work. If there is a local fur group, I would do that. Even if you show up and just observe. Its ok to be shy. ^^

Hopefully, this helps.

i think for now it's just the "not really having anybody to talk to about random stuff" type of loneliness.

I actually did try the only "local" furry discord which is the national one. And while there seems to be a lot of people there.... the only people that are active sound like they are highschoolers. Nothing wrong with that of course.... but it's hard to relate to somebody that's half your age or even smaller.

It also has no NSFW section so... that invalidates sharing basicly all of my art there.

We did? Sorry, but i don't actually recall that. could you refresh my memmory?

I get ya there, the local group that I started got taken over by the young 'uns.
As for the time we talked. IT WAS A LONG (5+ years?) time ago.
You were making a journal similar to this one. I reached out.
You were not jiving with me at the time. (Basically, I couldn't cheer you up XD.)
It's alright if you don't remember it was in the times before Telegram, I believe.

Ancient history then, ? Well no reason not to give it a shot I suppose.

Ye, just reach out on Telegram or Discord. <3 If you desire to. No pressure, and it can be at any time.

well you can note me your telegram maybe? I'm hidden.

I understand where you’re coming from as I have the exact same problem. Being autistic and having complex mental health issues like depression and anxiety with PTSD doesn’t make things easier.

As far as the fandom goes, I’ve found it helps to let others come to you. Or if you like find someone who does something you like, simply leaving a comment saying you like their work is a good thing.

And if you got something you’re good at or proud of, then why not share it with others, then they’ll be interested to hear from you about it.

That’s how I got started. Started off with art and then decided to make a short story about the art instead of trying to answer questions. That’s how found out that I had more of a passion with writing stories to go with the art. Other furries came to me to say they enjoyed reading the story just as much as the art.

I’ve also found reaching out to someone who has stuff you like can be helpful too. Just simply leaving a comment like I like your stuff is a good way to break the ice.

Yeah, depression certainly doesn't help. Thing is I'm already sharing basicly everything I draw ( either posting it here, or on the art dump channel on telegram. Between these 2 locations there's basicly nothing I do that isn't freely available for people to see. ).

I see. Well the main thing is, you’re reaching out and asking for help. It’s not a sign of weakness but of strength and courage.

One can’t climb a mountain or climb a hill by themselves. There’s no shame in asking someone to help open the door or guide them up the right path.

If there’s someone you follow on here or elsewhere, don’t be afraid to reach out to them directly. Even if you send them a direct message to say hello and what you like about them or what they do is enough. If you got ideas about something you and that person would like, don’t be afraid to suggest or ask if they’d be interested.

It’s how I’ve been able to get collaborations with other people and make friendships.

It doesn’t have to be anything like that if you’re not one for sharing ideas or the like. You can simply ask about their OCs if they have any and simply mention your own if you have any. They might be just as interested in knowing more about your OCs as you are about their OCs if they have any.

Alternatively if they don’t have any, why not ask them about what they’d probably like and go from there.

Sometimes it’s just the simple things like that which makes a big difference.

I hope this helps you.

And don’t forget, you’re not alone. There’s a lot of people like you and me who struggle with loneliness. Reaching out for help is the biggest and sometimes the hardest thing to do. But you did it and there’s no shame whatsoever in that. It’s better to speak up rather than being silent. Even if it feels like nobody’s listening, someone is.

Take good care of yourself

Thank you very much for the well wishes. I think it requires a change in mentality... have to see how I can go about doing that.

Good suggestions none the less. Thank you.

RL? I'm immune oddly enough. I started out my life with a ton of friends. We did everything together until I reached my low teens... maybe 13 or so? And then I found myself alone more often than not. They moved away, they were busy, they just were gone. And even though I have 4 other siblings, they were much the same. So I spent a lot of time alone, either nose in a book or immersed in my own mind, daydreaming. Eventually I kinda built up a massive tolerance to being by myself, and even came to enjoy it. Don't get me wrong; I still like hanging out and talking to people. I have moderately good social skills and the internal silence I developed made me a really good listener, so people *wanted* to talk to me often. But I also don't really feel a *need* for it.

Online? Heh, I guess you could say I have a 'digital split personality'. The 'me' that exists online is not the 'me' in RL, though they do have a lot in common. Basically I don't feel shy or limited online when it comes to speaking to people because I've created in my head a second persona... much like a 'fursona'... to do my online conversations. It's not very different from my RL self; just not possessing the quiet I carry around in RL as much. I feel more open to conversations and less like I should be quiet when I'm chatting online.

It is very much a mental game of learning to set aside the parts of yourself that limit you in RL, since online, though it is you? It also *isn't* you.

Yeah, i grew up mostly by myself as i never could relate to the other kids. Spent a lot of time daydreamming too. Oh, the adventures i had in my own mind. THis only kind of stopped being possible a couple of years ago... I guess when reality really noticably started going down the shitter ( so around 2020 i would guess ). Cant daydream anymore. Every time i try to do it my mind is just invaded by thoughts of the future ( both distant and near ) and all the negative stuff that's comming. I miss having a clear enough mind that I could just daydream again.

I guess all this worying is also what has precipitated this current cricis of mine with the lonelyness. I too enjoy being alone because i need that to engage with my hobbies ( art and videogames ). But i doo feel the desire to talk to people with similar interests. This stuff naturally cannot be shared with IRL people.

But unfortunatelly i never really learned how to engage with people, online or IRL ( at least those that I don't have to interact with during work ).

It's fair enough. For me, I just kind of... detached myself to a point? I can attest to worrying about everything a lot too. I look at what's going on, and what might happen, and I feel a sense of despair as well. But somehow I also don't. One of my 'pillars'... the things you use to hold yourself up in life... is that 'if something is beyond my control, there's no point in letting it stress you'. There are supposedly 'dark planets' winging around out in space that could randomly impact the Earth and destroy it and we'd never see it coming and couldn't do anything about it. Horrifying, right? ...not really. What can I do about that, or you? And since the answer is 'nothing at all', I don't see a reason to do more than file it away as an concept and go on about my life.

I do the same with closer to home, RL stress that I have to deal with personally, but really have no control over. I do the things I need to do, and if they don't go exactly as I'd hoped, I don't let it get to me; life continues. You literally cannot let every potential thing worry you; that's the way to madness. From this one moment in time, potential branches infinitely; you can't expect to be ready for any possible thing, or to worry which of them is going to happen.

My suggestion in that area is to try to narrow your view a little bit at a time. You're not Atlas. You can't hold all the world on your shoulders, and even if you could no one will thank you for it, or even notice. Your dreams are still within your reach, so keep reaching for them; at least they can be one place of peace in your life.

As for engaging with people, I almost feel like that's an excessive word. You can do it without doing it, I think. Let THEM talk to YOU. Take in what they're offering, and give back just enough to keep their interest. You don't have to be the initiator; just be there and be open to the chance for socializing. It's less stressful than trying to start things off yourself. As long as you can do the basics, like responding at all to someone, saying hello once in a while, and being polite, you'll be ok. My friends know me as a quiet person, and most of them tell me they appreciate me for being that way.

Yeah, world ending stuff isn't on my radar. Like you say, it's pointless to worry about a meteor or something hitting the planet. I guess my fears are more grounded. Stuff you COULD do something about, but would require rearanging your life in order to potentially deal with it. For longterm fears it would be growing old, alone and unable to take care of yourself. Possible solutions: find a partner, start a family or exit early. As for short term fears, it would be the fall of democracy in the place where I live ( what with rising far right sentiment and russian influences ) i genuinly fear loosing the rights and freedoms and security we presently have. Possible solutions: get invoulved in politics or flee the country. These are fears you absolutelly could do something about.... but it would require rearanging your life for it. I guess this is what is reffered to as "growing up" and accepting adult responsibilities.

I feel both of those. But again, at least for me, I'm... I guess I'm numb on the loneliness front. I'm too used to being alone. I enjoy meeting people and such, but I don't let it get to me that I spend most of my time by myself anymore. Getting old is whatever to me too. I honestly hope to get older, just to see what happens with the world, even when it seems like it's going to shit as time passes. I feel like that's a *part* of getting old, as the rose tinted lenses on your glasses get thicker as time passes. Everything seems like it was better 'back then'.

I live in the US, and despite how it seems, I'm also worried Democracy is on it's way out here. The government is a fuckin shambles, with one side apparently having become some kind of cult, or at least having a cult growing out of it like some misshaped tumor, and the other side seems lost in eternal indecision as to what, if anything, to actually do about it. My abilities in this direction is to vote (which sometimes feels like trying to stop a hurricane by going outside and tossing a single slip of paper into the wind and watching it vanish) and as you put it 'getting involved with politics' which mentally looks like coming up to a massive cesspool, stinking and bubbling, and thinking about wading into it, knowing it has no bottom. The other option, which isn't really, because I'm poor, would be to flee the country... but to where? And that's setting aside the 'how' of it.

I feel like concerns like that actually fall under the same one as a rogue planet. Saying to yourself that you 'could' do it is kinda pointless, because if it really were something you could do, you WOULD HAVE ALREADY. I *could* run a marathon; I *could* run for president, or try for a local governmental position. I *could* stand in the street, slapping myself and laughing like an idiot until someone took me away and locked me in a nice, padded room where it was soft and quiet. I *could*. ...I probably won't though. Yet. xD

It makes sense to be concerned about these things, but you have to put them in what I would call 'realistic perspective'. There's nothing wrong with seeking companionship, so that's very realistic and doable. Do you really want children? That feels like something to think about. Do you have health issues that would prevent you from taking care of yourself as you get older? Maybe if you feel your health and overall physical ability is low, you can start trying to work on that now, so by the time you become old enough for this to be an issue, you're not doing so bad. Having known quite a few 65+ people I can tell you you'd have to do a *lot* to yourself to reach that point; most of them have all sorts of things wrong with them, but they're still functioning and doing what they have to.

Exiting early is in my opinion, kinda silly. An example is my middle brother. He's done very well for himself; went to Harvard, made tons of money, got married, had two kids, huge mansion of a house, steady, no work income from investments, fancy cars, owns everything he wants, the whole nine yards. He's in perfect health too... but he complains about getting older, and how he doesn't want to live to 65 or 70. Like, he has none of the problems most people do, and he has the ability to afford all the care he would need, and he has a wife still with him and kids to spend time with him... yet he talks about exiting early.

I'm not trying to belittle your feelings of stress and worry. I feel a lot of them as well. The loneliness I know can feel immense. As you say, you can change that with some effort. I think you can, at least. The problems with government though? All you can do is all you can do, which is to say anywhere you see yourself making a difference, try to do so, so that the things you care about don't fade away. Right now that's all any of us can do about this.

But don't let the huge looming things in the future overshadow your day to day existence too much. This is what I meant about things you can't control. If you continue to live you *will* get older. Things *will* change, no matter how much you hope they stay the same. Once you accept that as fact, those concepts will hold less weight and have less power over your thoughts. Of course, you should try to influence things as much as you can while still accepting that you can only do so much... or be *expected* to do so much.

It's kind of a Zen approach to things. Life and Time is a huge river. You can struggle against the flow of it and have a hard time, or you can go along with it, angling towards the good things you hope for in the future. Be aware of what is going on around you, and work towards what you want steadily, but don't fear or worry about the changes ahead that can't be avoided.

eah, really does feel like politics everywhere are going down the shitter. We have seen a huge increase in very viollent very extremist far right parties that popped up basicly overnight and almost won the last elections ( gee, i wonder who's giving them rubles ). But in every turd there is a grain of truth. These people almost won because the traditional pro west parties have prooven to be a cesspool of corruption and basicly do nothing whille they are in charge ( at least nothing positive that the common man can feel ). SO the extremists are promissing them sweeping changes if they come to power. ANd people WANT a change. THey just lack the vision to see which direction that change will go. And that is the most demoralising thing. Seeing these rightwingers lamenting that they lost the elections as though they missed the rapture. And that if only they could have had a few more votes everybody would have been lifted to the heavens to live in infinite bliss ( or something ). How can people be this blind?!?

Where to emigrate to is a very good question. Honestly i have no clue. As it seems that the right is winning everyhwere ( well everywhere you might actually want to emmigrate to ), and we all know how much those people like immigrtants. But even at work, most of my colleagues' plan if shit hits the fan is "I'll just move abroad. Fat chance I'm staying here." In their defense most of them had prior experiance living and working in western europe so they know what to expect. I, personally, haven't. So that avenue is not looking particularly promissing to me.

COmpanionship? I think that's too tall of an order to wish for ( at least if we are talkign about IRL ). WOuld love to just like.... have people to chat with. Finding people you actually click with however is super non-intuitive. ( and dont' get me started on kids... no thank you. ) But if I bring up these concerns to anybody IRL that's the only solution. Get married and have kids. Only way to make sure you'll be taken care of in your old age.

I honestly wish i could just not think about it ( at the risk of being entierly clueless when the next elections come up and the next hitler is asking me for my vote with honeied words ). But watching the news is so damn depressing that I basicly had to just stop following them to at least preserve some small sembelence of inner peace. YOu can't ignore them entierly. when ever you open the internet in some form or another headlines will wind up popping in to your eyes. But in general not following the news has improved things at least a little bit.

Very eloquently put in that last paragraph. I simply do not have the certainty of self to just allow myself to be taken by the flow... because my mind won't stop reminding me where that flow is potentially going.

Government for me is basically watching it sidelong in case they do something extremely stupid, but not looking at them too closely and making DAMN sure I vote for sanity when I get the chance. I also try to speak up about actually voting. Recently an online friend of mine made a post here about them not voting and they got a lot of apathetic people agreeing with them, saying voting wasn't important. I argued with all of them, trying to get them to see how not doing that would lead to something horrible, and at least using that little bit of right to try to influence things was better than nothing, but I don't think I made a dent, and now we have a certain orange orangutan running the country...

I hear that Switzerland is a very nice country, and has a large number of happy people living there. Maybe that's an option if things get unpleasant? But just in case, make sure you have all your passports and ID sorted out beforehand in any case. Last thing you need is someone putting a freeze on leaving the country just as your thoughts of doing so solidify.

The thing about companions is even if it seems unlikely, you should never stop hoping for some to join you in your life. Keep your mind open (and yes, I mean RL). My current best friends in RL I met by chance, and managed to hit it off with them. It often happens randomly that you will meet someone and come to have something in common with them. I recall another situation where I nearly got into a romantic situation with someone in the same fashion; a random conversation we started while sitting near each other... but there was too much distance involved. As for kids? I have a saying. 'I love kids... as long as their not mine.' xD

As for the Zen concept. Here's another way to look at it. You don't have to have a certainty of self. The Flow is both Time and Reality. You can't NOT go along with it. What you have to do then is attempt to guide yourself as you move along towards those things you would like to reach for as you move along. Even if those things are short term goals, you lean towards them, then look to the next thing. Think of them as small islands in the Stream. For me, it helps me get along from day to day to focus on my little goals more than whatever lies far in the future, and to understand that eventually I will get closer to those points down the River where I need to pay more attention to my steering. ...If that makes sense... ^^;

Yeah, voting apathy is something that is plaguing us over here as well. Lots of people are so used to the traditional parties being so incredibly useless that it didn't matter who won, nothing would get done. SO a lot of people didn't even bother voting because it wouldn't have changed anything for them regardless which party came to power. I tend to agree with that sentiment. But with these new batch of extremists, the equation has changed. If they doo come to power, things will absolutelly change for the worse. But i do not think the population at large realizes this yet and so there's still a lot of people who do not vote because they live and work abroad and so they do not care what happens "back home" or are still so used to politics being this useless thing where the same people do the same things that only benefit the rich, that they think no matter who comes to power that will remain true. Even when the extremists are very open about which direction they want to take with their agressive anti west rethoric. ANd then, there are of course the people that doo vote, either because they are gullible and actually belive all the bullshit the extremists pour down their throughts, or see and realize that these people will break the status quoe and gleefully vote for them just to "stick it to the fat cats" or to "shake things up". But yeah. in the end there's only so much you can do. I too just tried to do the same thing as you.... talk with those people that seemed unsure and expressed how important it is to go out and vote... you know, whille we still have the option to do so.

Switzerland seems kind of more difficult to get in to compared to most EU countries. Also a lot more expensive. And yeah, you need a passport to go there unlike most everywhere else in the EU where you can go just with your ID ( for EU citizens ). I personally hear countries like Denmark and Sweden are pretty nice. Been to both whille going to NFC last year, and they doo seem pretty nice ( what little of them i saw ). There's of course the language barrier though. For your side, wouldn't Canada be a viable option? I don't hear a lot of negative stuff about them compared to the US, and i think you have a pretty relaxed border status with them?

And yeah, even with the few online interactions I did have, the best ones i had came through pure chance, whille the ones I actually planned for and took my own initiative to try and start ended up going nowhere.

ANd lastly abou the Zen thing. I totally understand it. It makes perfect sens. My problem is that I simply cannot see these smaller islands I should be aiming for. No idea how to work towards even these smaller goals. WHat it feels like to me is being stuck in a boat with no paddles and my arms tied behind my back. I can stay in the boat and just let it take me where ever it goes. Probably towards some rocks much farther down th eline, but it's safe and relativelly comfortable being in the boat for the time being. Yeah i could try to jump out of the boat, and swim without hands, to a destination i cannot see... I understand intelectually this is something you need to do.... i just don't know how to ( or are unwilling to.There's a saying here I really hate ( probably because it's true ) " There is no "I can't" only "I won't"". )

Well encouraging people who don't think voting is important is one thing you can continue to do to maybe help influence things. Just saying a little bit to someone who is unsure can make them rethink or consider the alternatives. I will always advocate for using that small right to vote while you have it, just as you say.

I have heard Denmark and Sweden as nice people as well. The language barrier isn't really a factor; learning is something we can always do, and might add something interesting to your life in the meantime, plus it's an excuse to socialize and maybe meet new friends. As for me, Canada, due to good ol' Pumpkin Spice Palpatine here being in charge here, does not really like US citizens trying to move there, as a lot of them try to bring all their good old 'MURRICA~!' mentality with them. They also seem to tend towards levels of cold I can't comprehend; this year, I hear it reached -40F this winter, which is a big no from me.

All I can say about your Zen concept of 'no paddles and arms tied' is that is most likely your own personal perception of things, or a feeling you have that is less real than you think. Every day you make decisions as to how you live, small or large. Even something as small as deciding what to have for breakfast is you 'paddling your hands in the water', guiding yourself through life, little by little. ANY choice you make is you exerting at least a small amount of pressure to go with or against the flow. So you are never bound like you imagine; you might not be able to see where you want to go, but you know in your mind what that place looks like. Keep that in your mind as you go along.

Thats a really hard topic to explain i would say.
I was already very shy that couldnt talk with anyone but after a while doing stuffs around ppl, i started to get the "trust" to talk with others without worrying, well, that was a long time ago i would say...

But if you want to talk with a specific person online, say like "hello, how are you, could we talk?" or something like that, and just wait they respond
Its hard, but you will get better at it after a while

Also, if you want to talk, we can always talk if you want, we seem to have similar interests and all, so, its more up to you heh.

Honestly, I find that asking somebody "how are you" is not a very good idea, because the answer to that is usually "not too great, but you don't actually want to hear that ". Politeness dictates the answer to "how are you" should always be "fine, and you?" . Comes across as just a bit disingenuous to me, specially when you are, in fact, not doing great.

Oh, and you mean in terms of kinks ( I have't shared that much else about my interests online, so I presume that's what you mean ). Well, I admit I have not had a great track record with "clicking" with other people based on shared kink interests. But I am willing to keep an open mind. So we can give it a shot if you like.