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Can Heathen City survive without porn?
16 years ago
General
The current Heathen City team has been slaving away for months to bring y'all the next volume this summer, and we're going to be showing some more cool stuff right soon. I've learned a lot from the production of, and responses to, the first and second book and this next one builds on the strengths of both.
Most recently it occurred to me that the book as a whole became a lot tighter if I cut a few pages from Ayato's segment and saved those for the next book, as that kept the focus firmly on the core characters and thematic throughline without distracting with other plotlines that wouldn't be resolved until the next volume anyway, when a curious realization dawned on me.
HC3 has almost no sex whatsoever. And what sex there is, is proper Sin City style film noir stuff. And it's straight, and short, and not at all intended to be arousing.
How did that happen?!
How am I gonna get people to buy this if all I have to offer is a set of contrasting but intertwining stories of betrayal, filicide and Oedipal reconciliation that chronicle the aftermath of the events on the Corinthia?
How are people going to respond to a vast cast of characters that include scary twins called Merry & Pippin, a paramilitary wolf bitch who knows how to take charge of a situation, a detective with a brutally old-fashioned, hands-on interrogation style, and a set of corporate mogul types who've either been brainwashed into making truly insane sacrifices for some higher purpose -- or know something we don't?
I mean, look at that sliver of the new cover art I've just uploaded. There's not even a hint of a dick in it! Just a faded, crumpled photograph and some dumb molecular formula knifed into a table-top.
People, I need your help! I ask you: does HC have a future without porn?
- Alex
Most recently it occurred to me that the book as a whole became a lot tighter if I cut a few pages from Ayato's segment and saved those for the next book, as that kept the focus firmly on the core characters and thematic throughline without distracting with other plotlines that wouldn't be resolved until the next volume anyway, when a curious realization dawned on me.
HC3 has almost no sex whatsoever. And what sex there is, is proper Sin City style film noir stuff. And it's straight, and short, and not at all intended to be arousing.
How did that happen?!
How am I gonna get people to buy this if all I have to offer is a set of contrasting but intertwining stories of betrayal, filicide and Oedipal reconciliation that chronicle the aftermath of the events on the Corinthia?
How are people going to respond to a vast cast of characters that include scary twins called Merry & Pippin, a paramilitary wolf bitch who knows how to take charge of a situation, a detective with a brutally old-fashioned, hands-on interrogation style, and a set of corporate mogul types who've either been brainwashed into making truly insane sacrifices for some higher purpose -- or know something we don't?
I mean, look at that sliver of the new cover art I've just uploaded. There's not even a hint of a dick in it! Just a faded, crumpled photograph and some dumb molecular formula knifed into a table-top.
People, I need your help! I ask you: does HC have a future without porn?
- Alex
How about this: if you head on over to the Heathen City Mailing list at http://groups.google.com/group/heathencity and write up a message for the mailing list with any questions or uncertainties you might have about HC2, I promise I'll respond to them as much as I can without spoiling future issues, okay?
I sincerely hope so. Elsewise, I fear for the fandom.
I'm not sure I have enough fingers to be equal to the task...but yes.
Don't second guess yourself sir showman, I'm sure it will turn out great... and maybe issue #4 can have some great steamy bits. Not like we need to see the characters undressed to appreciate them in more than just literary ways.
And when the hell am I gonna see you online again, dude? Are you still writing?
And the fact there have some porn scenes for some people that is minus for others a plus, still I think that porn there was kinda more than normal furry can bear.
So without it or with kinda little erotic scenes I think that more people will buy it.
And I'm right behind that idea... (not in that way) you know I mean that I support the idea. XD
For example, Kyell Gold did it with two of his Novels: Waterways & Shadows of the Father (Both had maybe one scene, where it was just 1 paragraph of a paw job, out of the entire 300+ Pages of the novel)
And really, even when Kyell uses pron in his books. He mostly uses it to draw a deeper connection with the characters or ties it into the plot later.
to be honest I dont mind it if there is Great character development, great action scenes
and great suspense...
HOWEVER....
I am getting pretty F---ing sick of this "We dont have to have sex in stories" belief. Personally I think sex in a story is great and is a part of people's lives.. I just dont want you to develop an ANTI sex attitude is all. There is no reason why stories cant be suspenseful and character driven AND HAVE sex....
then they start censoring themselves
Buck made a very good point when he noted that as plot progresses, there's less and less opportunity for indulgence. There come points where there simply isn't room for naughty stuff!
there is ALWAYS room for dicks being thrown around.. smacking people in the face...
And that's a good thing. It's why I enjoyed reading HC1 and HC2. I'm sure I don't have to tell you I normally wouldn't pick up a gay porn story. But beyond trying to impress you, I've enjoyed these books for the story potential from the beginning. HC1 was pulpy and lurid, HC2 was tense and suggestive. I look forward to where you'll be taking HC3. And hearing this tells me it's going to be good. Real good.
But this book... it has no such release valve. It's still building the stakes, establishing the peril, and zeroing in on who the heroes and villains are. This book needs to keep the reader on edge.
Though I wonder if you'll keep reading once you realize that in the Heathen City universe the sport of basketball was never invented...
Oh, wait. Don't answer that.
Like comedy, it can serve as a palate-cleanser. You can only sustain tension and interest for so long (in film studies, the rule of thumb is 26 minutes) before the reader needs a breather. A good gag, a change of scenery or some other moment of levity can bring the relief the reader needs, let them place the characters' peril in perspective and muse on outcomes other than the most obviously dire fate that awaits them.
Sex, likewise. Thematically that's what the sex in HC is mostly about: variations on temporary escape from reality, obligation, danger.
Everybody has their own comfort level, of course, and I'm not one to call anyone a prude for having their own preferences. I never really promoted Heathen City as porn, though I do ensure that its content is clearly labeled -- despite which, I read a forum post by a young man who'd ordered it on the prospect of mature anthro noir and was rather surprised when he opened it to a nice shot of Malloy's wing-a-ling.
So to each their own. Me? A fine-looking figure, naked and in the prime of that most primal act... that gets the ol' ventricles throbbing, and that's a powerful tool to wield -- as long as there's a space for it in the story. It was surprising how long it took me to notice that this book didn't offer any such space and, as such, there's hardly any in it. I'm mighty curious to see how the masses respond!
Course, when they're separated...
:)
What'd you think of the second book?
That is the question that is better asked in my opinion :P
Sex sells, far too true, but a good solid story can potentially sell just as well.
On the whole, though I must say I don't think a single one of my favorite authors have ever directly had porn in their stories. There's been some brief skimming over of such things, with characters waking up in bed next to each other etc, but no actual description of the sex itself. It just wasn't needed to keep the story interesting.
And to be perfectly honest, I really would like to see more good furry stories without the porn. It's because of the fact that porn is included in everything that there's this perception that porn is the only important thing to the fandom.
Proper literary writers indeed seldom indulge in elaborate descriptions of sexual activity, but those same writers often have no qualms about graphically detailing human suffering. Bloody violence, debilitating ailments, severe emotional trauma -- these are considered acceptable topics and writers are praised for their boldness in confronting the reader with these realities.
That same reward doesn't apply to sex, which stems from a cultural bias that many civilizations share. I'll wager money that right this second there are more people having sex than there are being killed. It's no stretch to imagine that across the globe, about one in a thousand humans is engaged in a sexual activity with someone else, and that's a weird thing to realize. Of course, it must also be noted that more people are probably thinking about when they'll be able to get food again than about when they'll next get sexual relief.
But in the end you have to have something to draw the readers in, and if it isn't gratuitous and highly detailed violence, I suppose it might as well be gratuitous and highly detailed sex! The latter also happens to sell better. That does not, however mean I don't wish there were not a few more 'publicly acceptable' stories out there, and more importantly, the support for it.
Sad fact is in this fandom, if it's not porn or fursuits, it by and large gets ignored. No matter how talented the artist may be in the case of art with a few exceptions that I've seen thus far.
I'm not sure anyone pays much attention to written stories in this fandom at all unless it's porn and even then, I'm not so sure. But then I've never seen any statistics based around it since any time any get released it's always about the art.
The sad truth - when you masturbate, god kills a kitten - but when you dont, god kills a coyote - think of the coyotes here... Fuck the cats, they would take over otherwise.
please...
8=P
I find the story worth its weight, and the sex is a bonus, but I dont mind a well written story that sex fades and tells a tale.
There are a handful of writers here and on yiffstar, AKA sofurry - that have wonderfully sex filled stories, and sometimes, the story can draw you in enough where at times for me, I breeze thru the sex to find out whats next because they paint a moving mental picture so clear, you need to know what lies beneath and the sex is, well, sex - its not an means to an end. Its just a bumper.
Did you find yourself breezing through the sex parts of HC1? How about the second book?
Not that I think the sex is a bad thing, but its not the main draw for me.
Luckypan had a similar question a while ago
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1185924/
and FWIW, my advice to you is the same as to her; if you can sell two different products, do so. Sell HC as an anthro comic epic that appeals to a wide audience, and then when the minors and comic fans go on to the next table and the guy with the partial suit approaches, whip out that XXX folio or comic, look, only $9.95 for all this great hot stuff that we juuuuust couldn't fit into the latest main issue. The two products reinforce each other to the yiff-positive, and those who are squicked by it can consume and enjoy the main work without getting what they don't want.