"Last episode, Dragoneer decided to not only stick his foot in his mouth, but shove it so far down his throat it stuck out his ass and he had to walk lopsided."

Is this really necessary? It seems like he is listening to the community and is making acomodations even though it may go against his own personal opinion. I would be thankful not insulting.

Yes, I actually think it is. I know I'm not the only one who is getting really tired of their art or their friends or their watchers being put down or made out to be not as good or worthy as other people here. I know it's hard for people on the top of the fur pyramid to think of how such things affect everyone else sometimes because they know they have enough clout to lean on people to make sure that they are safe, but the rest of the fandom is running out of options. Asking people to be THANKFUL that they still have a place in the online fandom is insulting in my opinion, when it is all those little people who try with what tools and talent they have to show that they have a part too, that make the fandom what it is.

I have to agree. I turned down joining a site, because they had size and paper requirements. You honestly could not post art on note book paper. They didn't want rough sketches either.... I felt so low because of that. Some of my favorite drawings are on lined paper. I don't want FA to become like that. I like most of the furs in the community too much.

I turned down joining a site for similar reasons. They had submission size requirements and paper quality requirements and the like, but against my better judgement I applied anyway with some older pieces - I chose them because I wanted to submit all-ages work and didn't have anything newer that was appropriate to the boards. I was accepted, but they also critiqued the art as well, which was NOT part of the criteria for site acceptance. I bluntly told them to terminate my account because I in no way wanted to be affiliated with a site where the quality of the art itself was a basis of being allowed there.

I am afraid that is what starting to happen here. Its bad enough I have to be split on 3 galleries to have all my types of art posted. I would leave here if they keep making impossible changes like that. There aren't many places left out there for galleries let alone a furry one.

One of my friends  Dineegla was affected by the change, he does primarily furry muscle morphs.

Thanks, I went and checked him out, and as I was looking at his gallery he posted here. I hope there's something I can do to help him if he'd like any assistance in stating his case.

Unfortunately sometimes people just don't look at the effort that goes into doing something and jump to conclusions and then just don't want to simply admit when they're wrong. Whether it's a non-artist thinking it should be so easy to draw after watching an artist who's been doing it for over a decade _appear_ to do it so easily to the ones who think writers aren't really artists because 'oh it's so easy to write'. Someone who paints a wall blue and puts a dot on it somewhere and says it's art, well, no that's not art, but someone creating an impressive 3D picture with the help of a rendering program HAS created art. For those who go that extra mile there's plenty of art created in regards to SL as well, it also gets dismissed though because someone else felt it was too easy to create.

Seems that anytime a site gets large enough and the admins realize how much it REALLY costs having such open policies as the database expands almost exponentially that they start going 'maybe we should set restictions on posting quality, now what group has art that eats up a lot of space but we can most easily say isn't art?', to try and restrain the beast and it almost never goes over well, which is why if you want to keep a smaller and less costly database you start with restrictions, you don't impose them down the line without suffering greatly.

And the worst thing about that is it doesn't work, either. This journal, and people coming to read it, is going to eat more bandwidth than I'm going to guess . . . 10% of the image, music, and writing posts combined today. I could count on one hand artists who, with one image post, would outdo bandwidth-wise 90% of other posters here combined. But it is the people who generate the least amount of bandwidth, many of whom are truely trying to contribute, who get the shaft in situations like that, not the ones who are actually costing the site the money.

Well that's how it goes, you target the smallest group first, and if you can squeeze them out without the rest protesting you can go to the next group up, until you've eliminated all the 'unworthies' and all that's left are the big-ticket types and it's just another elitist little paysite with not even a shadow of the richness it once had. Just look at all the groups MSN killed when they moved them to Worldgroups. I was part of several great furry sites but after the move you couldn't see more than a thumbnail without paying, then quickly went to where you couldn't see ANYTHING without paying first. Haven' wasted a moment since on them.

Agreed I have attepmted to draw, and subsequently faild, I just don't have the gene, nor the years of pratice.

I've just started writing myself and no it's not easy, far from it in fact. It takes alot of time and thought to write out a sence, plus writers block can really bar you. Either way it takes monthes, or even years to complete a writen submission.

As for the Daz/poser users, I've found some of them to be quite creative and artistic, just as much as someone who has put their time into drawing and inking traditional art.

What I'd like to see shut out is those photoes that people are taking of themselves, seriously this isn't fucking myspace no one wants to see you here, all we want to see here is fur and art, so unless you're wearing a fursuit, or doing a self portrait, fuck off! I know I'm a killjoy sometimes, deal with it!

Phew now that I got my rant out how have you all been?

The occasional photo is okay, but yes it is somewhat frustrating to log on and find someone's posted a dozen pics of himself and they aren't even good pics, or pics around the house just to have something to post. At least slap some body paint on and some fur and pretend to be furry.

Oh still writer's blocked as usual, trying to get the urge up to write SOMETHING, not sure how or what given I just can't seem to go now that my muse is gone. How're you doing?

.... What i'm not deleted yet? shesh, i ain't even artwork.

Ha.

Should see my horrible sketches, from an old single (only) ever owned sketch pad, lots was lost due to .... I hate you... you hate me... tearing of pages, and also the .... I'm going crazy, and i'm not normal, stage i passed through lost a number of pages, now all that is left, is all that is left.... 3-5pages, lol.

90% head-shot drawings, no not porn, general shitdohs.

....But, i had it up and removed it... as i found, what the heck was the point. :P

---

Though if art gets like,  Blood-Raven-Art suggested in a commentary, of some other site i am not familiar with.... yipes, i'm doomed!

As is other artist who do have protential......

Hopefully my two buds don't get the boot, that'd irrate me as they can be great at what they "want" to do.

I don't "want" to make "music" thus i don't consider it art, it's just a passionate hobby of mine.

I love sound. :) Simply put.

I really wanna see one of your (nearly / incomplete) pieces again tho sometime.

I want it kind've summarized to me, if at all possible sometime.

Just b/c i remember something long time ago....

Which at this moment, i cannot recall, it was something oh wait i remember... art class... i told him why waste time and effort and supplies on me. I am not an artist and pointed to someone who was working with WIRE/CABLES and made a fucking 4D dragon, and rock out of it.... with simple (bending and muscle) and i was like.... dude, leave me alone.

LoL

Funny thing is he was passing me for just sitting in class listening to my walkman occasionally doodling fur figures, mostly out of proportion, and yet, when he helped me with the paper mashcee or whatever it called.... news papper drenched.... in water, and stuck together.... but first you have to form a base....

He was helping with the base, of the fox head.... i couldn't grasp the 4D / geometry of it... my brains too stupid.

So naturally i deviated from his base, and only ever made the ears which where cooked i was allowed to keep, but i think i threw them out or broke them....

Was cooked clay, into ceramic or something.

But the ears wouldn't of ever made it to the body they had no flex or flux to em, they was straight up, 2D style.

Lmao

Your artwork always reminds me of that strangely, the artistic (beyond) commoner thinking, and in that sense, if i can ever analyze it down to rational levels, not that i will draw, but i can... understand "OOP" better.... "Object oriented programming" better, as THERE IS ALWAYS A "SKELETON" to all creations.... one just has to find it and understand it's "ANATOMY" then .... everything else becomes easy. :)

Cheers.

Glad your employed, i'm still working on it. X_X *shoots you and steals your moola.*

^_^

*blurps & parts*

Tensik, I was told that most of my art will have to be removed because it is not "totally morphed". It IS totally morphed, and I am now appealing it. The totally morphed, furries are fine, but the partially furred (YET TOTALLY MORPHED) images cannot be left up. Case in point: I have two versions of "Howler." One is totally "furred" and the other is called "Howler's Summer Coat." That one is 3/4 furred. Now, according to a staff member, one version can stay, but the other has to go? I did them as a set, a comparison.

My morphs at www.morphed muscle.com comprise SEVEN galleries of 24 pieces each, not a slouch, I would think. As a 53 year old art teacher/director/and Department head for over 25 years, I found certain comments made to me about which pieces can go and which can stay quite amazing. Because my photomorphs are an EVOLVING art one should look at the whole picture and not just individual pieces. I am not a troublemaker. But I am a retired, handicapped person who is beginning to try being a fur and making amazing discoveries with my art. BTW, which also comprises of attempts with DAZ and Poser [Yahoo gay poser art group].

SO I chose to do totally furred pieces at FA and not my mAnimalia series. I hope that I can keep all the pieces posted. In the meantime I am developing my own website and have become a Moderator in another, similar group to this one, where I hopefully will be overseeing these types of artwork. I made no trouble for anyone, yet I landed in the crosshairs just because of the art that I do....

And it's not even yiffy!

*looks over the gallery*

It's REALLY obvious that you are putting true effort into what you are doing there. While I can see the argument that could be made, on the other hand I would also have to say that the images are being changed enough where based on comparable use of possible copyrighted and trademarked work, what you do there - all of it - should be allowed. It doesn't make much sense to say that people can post fan art of trademarked characters that literally are just a lawsuit waiting to happen, but other people can't post heavily modified photomorphs, especially if they are being morphed in a fashion that is not construable as harmful to the copyright holder. I would also say that your usage COULD fall legally under fair use by using a portion and not the heart of the work, and could even be arguable as included under the "parody" guideline; not that you are intending to be haha funny, but because many people do tend to see anthropomorphics in a non-serious light.

If there's anything that I can do at all to help you state your case, just let me know, even though I might not be on the staff's good side right now. *grins* I'm rarely on preyfar's or wolfblade's, I can tell you that. ;)

The funny thing is, i have gotten permission from almost all of these bodybuilders to morph them this way. Matter of fact, many are thrilled with my work.

There you go then, though I must say that doesn't surprise me at all. However, that's even better if there are no possible infringement loose ends to tie up. In that case, it shouldn't even be a question, in my opinion.

Not so much as a resolution but lets put it one the back burner for a bit. I still see my stuff as on shaky ground because I use a lot of store models with only texture mods the funny thing is when I post one of my paintings it may get 50 view and one or two favs same as my drawings but the poser stuff gets like hundereds someone must think its ok,lets see what happens when thay regroup.
It will happen after all dragoneer did say at the start of this year that this site is going to have to go through some major changes and a lot will not like them.
I was here when the first fa started and then fell apart this place has never done anything easy I spose I'm luckier than most as I can paint ,draw and take photo's so I'll always be able to upload something

*chuckles* If he thinks that telling groups of people that they can't post what he doesn't think is art, or certain types or qualities of submissions aren't allowed, is a good idea, he might as well fold this place tomorrow because the fandom doesn't need another VCL, we've got one.

Its actualy a conspiracy against all the old furs here [JOKE] funny thing had a look at the gallerys of those affected with this and seems to be a lot of old furs like me just seemed funny to me any way

sorry but I missed the train here, what happened now?

Bob, go read my journal, buddy

Just readed Dx damn!

The only thing I am worried about is. well.. What could possibly be next. I am worried he might ban music that does not have some form of furry or animal theme, like the music that I do.

Quote: "Just remember that next time it comes to pick and choose who is worthwhile here, because the staff will likely try it again from what they have said".


I by now have learned the hard way (the way I wish I hadn't learned this) that Dragoneer is a sort not open to listening. His way seems to be the way of stone walling, and just going all ahead full steam, voice of the people be damned.

I suspect that it may not even matter how much of a voice of reason type you are... he has way, and his actions have by now made it crystal clear to this rabbit... he might feel kind of like "his way or the highway".

So, if people are getting a bit disillusioned and jaded with some things around here, It's small wonder. A true leader leads by example... not Draconian style laws that pop up out of nowhere.

And, while everything you said Tenzee was well worded, here's the part I think you OS nailed it down dead-on perfectly...


Quote: "I know a lot of people (myself included) who won't send a dime again after the first time they tried this BS"


Yeah, exactly! I mean, putting up with overbearing, all encompassing rules for free is bad enough... but paying to put up with a admin like ours is going a bit far, to put it mildly.

I don't know... maybe there had been some things I was kinda of on the site's side about... but when you come to realize that no matter how much your on the side of the powers that be (on the net or in RL), they're most definitely NOT on your side... then, sooner or later, you may run out of patience.

Patience, like a lot of things (money, food, FA's bandwidth, etc) is a limited resource. But, unlike that other stuff, those things can be replenished with money... but, when too much patience has been lost, all the money in the world sometimes can't fix that problem. So, just goes to show... even money can fix every last problem in life.

A site with incredible bandwidth but little or no end users is likewise yet another problem that all the money and bandwidth in the world won't fix as a problem.

Me thinks there are those around here at the top that'd do well to remember that. *Rabbit gets down off of soapbox now*

Way t'stick it to em dude, s'the way i knew you'd handle things. Awesome as always.

Ice

Why is it every time you think it's safe to go back into the water something new comes and bites you in the ass again.

Mmm...this reminds me of what happened on DA not so long ago.

Former DA admin, Jark, posted something that mocked anime and anthro artists, then claimed anyone who didn't like it was being hypocritical by not allowing him his say when they expected to be allowed to post their art. Jark handled the whole affair with his usual unapologetic, screw you all I'm the admin here, bluster.

The most fun irony of all though, was when he helped pass new gallery organizing rules that effectively marginalized anime and anthro related arts into their own little section...right before he himself was kicked to the curb and removed from admin status, kind of like the art he had targetted had been removed from the mainstream of the site. He was the one crying of how unfair it all was then...and I was feeling very little sympathy for him. =D

The damage was done though, and now DA anthro artists who are not already established seemingly get fewer hits than ever.

So, you don't have to ban something to marginalize it to reflect your own art tastes on a site. At least what FA is doing is arguably more honest, instead of a site organizing "enhancement" that actually diminishes whole site sections. It's the way the rules keep changing that is a bit dismaying though. One moment, you are giving money to the site, and the next moment, the site is not the same one you donated your hard earned money to. All sites evolve over time. But I agree that that's what bugs people about this process. And I fear the admins may not grasp that. It feels a bit like being jerked around. Probably cause that's just what it is.

All that said though, normally, I would be on the side of the site owners being allowed to do whatever they want, whether we like it or not, cause they put up the money etc. for the site. But in this case, they are doing their thing while appealing to the wider community for money, which may make it all another matter.