* hugs Dog of Heaven *

*hugs back*

Ah, don't shut it down. :/
Awesome journal though. :3 It's very nice in response to all of the drama that has been happening.

*Aw. not ah. D:

Arg! Didn't read it right. Well, at least the group isn't shutting down. :P

heh, this is why i'll never make it to heaven but... oh well

What do you mean?

God gave us his son, for everyone to be saved. We just need to accept Him and his gift for everyone.

We don't deserve it. We don't understand it. But that's how it is.

i don't feel like explaining, i'll only piss people off and confuse others. no one will understand me, which is why i never talk about why i don't belong in heaven. period. my views on life and death are different. i'm Christian but i still question my own faith, as well as others. i'm just different from the rest of the sheep (i mean humans) on this damn planet

piss 'em off ;) more fun that way *smirks*

we all have questions of faith hell i even had a time when i considered being muslim

Our destiny is to spread a message of peace without violence or tyranny.
At least that's what I think.
God never hurts, because: GOD=LOVE

oh man you scared me there for a second. i love the FPC, it's kind a like a sanctuary for the furs who have faith can go.

and i think it's a good idea to unblock all slanderous comments. it'll only make them seem stupid.

Hmmmm..... we have to go ahead.... and to share the love from God to all FA... <3<3<3 *hugs you al* <3<3<3<3

We will still have newsletters.

sermons, FPC 411s, and the Holy Rock Cafe is moving into submissions.

I see no problem with this and great lesson.

This isn't going to make the trolling and hate messages stop. They won't stop until this group gets banned.

But of course, they'd baww if one of their groups gets banned because thass discrimination. O: But what about the discrimination we receive as well?

I don't know why they all stating trolling us, and by trolling I mean just posting messages saying f*** you and die.
And yet when I or anyone else answers there posts with an actual conversation its called being an ignorant ass an discriminating them.

Oh and bigoted. Don't forget that. :P

They can't and will never see that they're hypocrites.

Heh. I've never thought of that. Quite frankly, never ever.

They hear only what they want to hear and see only what they want to see. This is why the Bible is almost all uses metaphors and parables. So that only those who want to hear and see will.

*thumbs up* thats the way to handle it! I will miss the sermons, but I will just continue to read my daily devotion Bible

I think the trolls should remain blocked. or have only one more chance then be blocked again.

Personally, I think that's wrong on both counts. I think at least one person should be that forgiving.

...Is this what you consider a means to an end? What do we have to be forgiven for? Supporting gay rights and lesbians, whereas your freely (and openly) attacked the gays on FA with the help of incorrect Bible presumptions?

I demand an apology, not a bail. Not just to me, but the whole of FA and those who were affected by your unsettling views.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1826849/

You don't think the trolls deserve your forgiveness? But I thought God said, as it states in the Bible, that EVERYone deserves forgiveness? Are you saying that the trolls don't, which would go against the word of God?

1. I am not God.
2. Where does it state the exact phrase "Everyone DESERVES forgiveness"?
3. It does not mean I am not angry with the trolls.

Everyone is open to receiving the grace of forgiveness.

What about  fpc ?
He looks like he damn well needs to do alot of asking for forgiveness to the general gay and lesbian side of FA, because what he did not only pissed off those who are gay and lesbian, but those who support the gay rights movement (And aren't gay or lesbian themselves).

I really don't understand why you are so upset. I mean, sure, the views of Wally and others are offensive and moronic, and anti-gay sentiments in the fandom are so uncommon, but, I don't understand the level of outrage. One of the proponents wouldn't even attend a vote regarding the legality of gay marriage. These people don't really affect you. I was about as irritated at the flood of angry and pointless comments as I was from the sermon, in all honesty.

It annoyed me because all I did was that I stood up for gay rights, and I get called a troll. Then later on I get "forgiven" by the very same people who didn't like the fact that I pointed out their bullshit. I didn't need to be forgiven for anything - the fact is, that they should be asking for forgiveness, not trying to act as if I'm the one at fault when they were the ones who created the drama.

After all, "god" created us ALL right?

If that's what you want to believe in, then sure, but I go with the scientific fact that we all were born into this world, and not "popping" into existence just because someone thought of a deity who created us. Also evolution. Also the age of the world, scientifically is greater than just 6,000 years old due to radiometric dating evidence and therefore scientifically dispels what the "Holy Bible" has to say on creationism. Say what you want but thus far after seeing so much factual, physical evidence rather than word of mouth or book has proven to be more believable. Unless you either have a dogmatic faith in whatever, or, brought up brainwashed by other people who have a dogmatic faith in whatever that you were brainwashed into believing. In short: I reject all religions with a creationist belief system that has deities simply due to the reason that scientific practices constantly disprove various word of mouth or book preachings that the Earth is not older than a few billion years.

Science: Factual, physical evidence.
Religion? Whatever science isn't.

Of course that's my opinion based off of facts, but yeah go ahead and attack me with fanatical belief if you choose to do so. It's not going to be anything new, I already went through all of this years ago in this group way back before they closed it because they saw how they were running it into the ground.

Seeya around

I was agreeing WITH YOU. *is atheist* XD

Oh? You were? Haha well that just proves that I shouldn't be posting at 2:30 in the morning.

But yeah, religion I just can't believe in. Too many word of mouth and book things and not enough physical factual evidence. :\

this :D.

Well what if a diety is actually deluding your mind and making you believe there is a physical world around you? You would not be able to tell, and your science would be based off the diety's delusion.

Well so without any more journals, what else could this group do? Well so far from all this contraversy I've seen both sides be harsh with one another, so couldn't we all just get along and forgive and forget and start over?

All things on this group will be submitted via submission.

Guess we are starting over from there.

okay, that's cool

God bless you here, m'brothers and sisters in Christ. <:D

Will their be a replacement group made?

No, no replacement group will be made

Awwww... *frowns* Oh well...

It's life.

I don't really understand the reason for redirecting some things to submissions, rather than not posting them at all.

Oh, and, you need to change your profile info to reflect the changes to policy regarding blocking.

Good point. Thank you.

hey im not trying to be a troll, i just want some clarification.
i am a fellow Christian furry who happens to be gay. do you believe that people who are gay are bad people (to put it simply)? i dont mean to put it bluntly i just dont know what other way to put it.

No, we do not believe that those who are gay are bad people.

o ok. the reaction to your journal made it seam like you were blatantly condemning the gay community. when i read it i did not think that was the case. you clearly stated the the BIBLE said it was a sin, but we would be forgiven if we accept that Jesus is our savior which he is.

I know, but I think the real problem was that people misinterpreted what we said, confusing "sin with the sinner" deal. And then one mod got slightly defensive and ka-boom!

Sounds about right to me. It's unfortunate, but *ka-boom* happens awfully easily with emotionally-charged topics.

It's life

nope.

It must not be neglected that even the faith we have is a gift from God, and not of ourselves so we cannot even boast that we did anything to deserve it. It isn't that we were saved by our decisions to accept Christ as Lord and Savior, according to what I've learned- our salvation is derived from God compelling us to be saved. I feel then that whether we end up in heaven or hell is somehow tied to the decisions that God made on our behalf before we even came to faith, before we even came out of our mothers' wombs. God is the Heavenly Father- but every father has his legitimate heirs who get the inheritance alongside his bastard children who get nothing. I pray to be the former and not the latter!

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Rev 3:20, KJV)

But how are we to "open the door" to Jesus when Sin has bound our wills to evil? Don't just knock on the door, Jesus, kick the door right off its hinges or no one will be saved. We can't answer you any other way!

Now if Jesus does that people will NOT accept him as their saviour but only be angry at him for breaking their door.
(not a joke, metaphorically again)

You've done good to unblock. Though I wish whatever the problem seems to be would go away and people will just go on in life. Every is entitled to an opinion, but some opinions should possibly be kept to themselves. Let's be friends here please. There's enough hate and angwish in the world already.

Religion is the cause of it most of the time too

People are the cause, not the religion. An intangible thing cannot hurt anyone, the people who seek to abuse it do. People hate because they refuse to live and let live, they get up on their pedestal and proclaim how "everyone is wrong but me" then people will of course oppose that and then shitstorm happens. Its the fault of peoples ignorance and hatred and own insecurity, not the religion itself.

But religion thrives on ignorance and keeps people in ignroance

"Dont investigate, just believe, dont you dare questioning!" thats all abrahamic religions in their basis, it asks for the people to be willingly ignorant, and islam specificly (and chrisitanity too) tells people to kill people who dont believe the same (The hatred)

Yet the common atheist keeps themselves in the same shroud of spiritual ignorance, and in many cases, absolute hatred. I see more atheists on a crusade to abolish all religion than i do religious zealots by far. The only difference is that people focus on the few crazy wack jobs rather than the individual. I know many many christians who accept science as well as their spirituality. My boyfriend being one of them. Though you only seem to believe media sensationalists. From my experience the common atheist tends to be snarky, sarcastic, and have a much higher "holier than thou" attitude than the common christian by far. People who impose their ideals far more than the people whom they mock and see anyone with any sense of spiritual fulfillment as a lesser, more "ignorant" being. Rejecting all forms of thinking and believing in one ideal is ignorant, being blind to possibility is ignorant. So both the overly religious and the atheist are one in the same.

TL;DR, both atheists and religious zealots are the same ignorant being with self righteous ways that make them both look like asses :P

There are reasons alot want religion gone.

Answer me this question, name one thing religion has done thats good that cant be done through secular means?

I can name alot of bad that can only be done in the name of religion and never without it though

Religion has helped empower people when they had nothing left. Has helped people find their own path to enlightenment. It seems you ignored 99% of what i said (so much for being the elite of the logical world). By the way, there are many more religions than Christianity and
Islam, have you ever seen a buddist talking crap about others and keeping them down? Never. Religion in itself has never caused harm, people who wish to abuse it and use it as a scapegoat for their own selfish ways have. People are the problem, not religion. Giant corporations dont use religion to control their masses, they use simple manipulation of peoples vanity and insecurities, making far higher amounts of profit,more damage to humanity as a whole, and a greed that cant be reasoned with. The basic moral of the story is people have the right to any faith they choose and should not impose it on others out of basic human respect, something both the religious and non religious are guilty of, you cannot rationalize your own ignorance under a guise of "truth". Truth to one may not be so to another, atheists tend to forget that, as do some Christians. Cant get on your high horse just because you have a different form of faith. And this is where i end my debate. Have fun on whatever path you choose, whether it is full of understanding or not~

"Religion has helped empower people when they had nothing left"
"Has helped people find their own path to enlightenment. "

Can be done secular

So you failed my challange, everything else did I know already and I agree You are free to believe what ever unproven bullshit your heart so desires but it doesnt mean it has any lick of truth to it.

"Cant get on your high horse just because you have a different form of faith."
I have no faith, faith means believing in something without proper justification, I believe in nothing I dont have proper justification of

Atheism is indeed a faith, after all it does have "theism" right there in the title, you believe in the absence of a god or god like figure, and go as far as to getting highly defensive when someone introduces a new, and logical way of thinking and understanding. So if you feel you are above others simply because you think and believe in different ways, it makes you an arrogant jackass who really isnt worth my time. I bring a friendly other way of thinking and you go right into defense mode, as does every atheist i have ever spoken to. So in conclusion...u mad bro? /blocked

lol you don't say "umad bro?" and then block them, it makes you look like you lost the argument and went ahead with blocking your ears so that you can't hear what the other person has to say in abject refusal and going "na na na na! Can't hear you!". Typically you only ever want to use the block feature to prevent asshats from spamming your profile with hate messages, not to use the block feature to win the arguments for you XD

Judging by what was posted it seemed like it was no longer worth the time and i wanted to be done with it. But yes, it was wrong of me for taking the easy way out here.

Yeah well at least things have blown over eh? Internet arguments is like the Cripple Olympics. You win the race but you're still missing a leg or something so you're not better off anyway XD

Theism = belief in (a) god
Atheism = no belief in (a) god
Anti-theism = anti, against, belief in (a) god

Pro-tip is to know what words mean.
10 months old comment, but I don't expect theists to gain even this much knowledge over this timespan.

I know full well what those mean thank you very much. Though thank you for proving my personal belief that atheists/anti-theists are just annoying, self righteous, bitter, closed minded and spiteful as any intolerant theist. Being a condescending bitch isnt going to win you any points for your side.

Atheism is indeed a faith, after all it does have "theism" right there in the title
lol.

Christians are good at dishing it out, but they cannot take a punch. You claim religion itself causes good yet you have none, zero, support of religion doing something positive that could not be accomplished by secular means.

Religion is disgustingly selfish.

And atheism isnt? And by the way, i am in absolutely no way a christian. I am just not so high and mighty that i think i know everything about the spiritual world and how everything works. You people claim religion is the cause of all evil yet i see no cases of that. The crusades? That was entirely in attempt to gain land, using religion to manipulate people into fighting, 9/11? That wasnt because of islamic radicalism, that was because the u.s has been fucking them over for years. My point being, even with all religion gone, people will still kill each other, still rape innocents, still go to war, still destroy economic and social structures, and still spread hate. They will just no longer have a veil to hide their true intentions. And atheism is a faith, almost -exactly- the same as radical christians. Lets take a look. Atheists place faith in only one mindset, science, while christians place it in God. Atheists will argue till the end that there is no god, a christian will argue to the end that there is one. Atheists refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy or at least right to have other religions, many radical christians do the same. Atheists claim to place their arguments in "logic and reason" (no matter how illogical and unreasonable their claims are.) Christians argue in faith. Fact is, atheists are no better than them and only further divide and set back our species. The only time when we stop going back as a species is when we learn to accept that people have their faiths or lack there of and not force theirs on others, atheists included. And to say atheists dont shove their views down other peoples throats is a fallacy and you know it. Take it as you will. I know you are only going to pick and choose what to argue against and ignore the rest of what i said. Oh by the way, id love to see all the good things atheism itself has done. And no, richard dawkins is not a good thing. i know your views wont be swayed by what i said as much as what you say will sway mine. Chances are you wont take a single word of what i said into consideration, and i am speaking purely from experience. But i will leave this here, many bad things have been done in the "name" of religion, but not because of religion.

STOP BEING A MINDLESS APOLOGETIC!
Have you read the Bible or the Quran? By your mindless rabbling about how religion isn't the cause of any harm I must conclude you haven't read into the subject at all or simply cannot comprehend the written word.

ATHEISM IS NOTHING MORE THAN A POSITION ON A SINGLE QUESTION. THE QUESTION BEING 'DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD'? WHERE THE ANSWER IS: NO.

You also insist atheists are dividing and setting back our species. Are you fucking insane? Or are you just fucking dumb in the fucking head?

Religion is only percieved beneficial to to in-group while excluding the out-group. Christians has stumped scientific progress in Europe for thousands of years. Islam and religion overall in the middle-east is used to suppress people and encourage violence. Religion is man-made and so is the religious texts and preachings. So obviously the people in the religion are to blame as much as the religion itself, but you cannot shrug it off as just people doing bad things while religion itself is neutral.

You're deluded.

People like you are worthless virmine. Instead of being apologetic of religion, without merit, do some research on the subject. Educate yourself instead of staying ignorant.

Atheists refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy or at least right to have other religions,
I identify the harm religion does to people, being the mind-poison that it is. But you cannot criminalize it. So I'll have to take up the fight whenever I can - for the sake of the betterment of our species. Homo Sapiens has been intellectually suppressed by established religion as it is.

I have obviously done more research than you ever have or ever care to. To call me uneducated is just your insecure ass spouting out hateful dribble in avoidance of what i actually have said. And now all you are doing is back tracking away from what i said because you have no argument against it. Just a bunch of butthurt whining and hating. And you refuse to remember that most of the religious world accepts science. And what you also seem to forget is that many things in science are completely in conclusive. Im not talking about technology or even evolution but in its theories of death and afterlife and the paranormal. And people like me are worthless vermine? For trying to get people to get on the same side rather than hate eachother for no reason? You are nothing but an angry, childish, typical atheist bitch who cares more about trying to "prove" people wrong than actually trying to do any good in the world. You just sit behind your screen and bitch bitch bitch. Frankly, im disgusted that i even bother to waste my time as ignorant, hateful, and close minded as you are. Just another typical atheist jerk. And to imply that atheists do no harm is just another wannabe boost to your already bloated ego. Fucking tool. What a total waste of time.

Religion is indeed a way to manipulate the minds of the simple-minded, but it is used in that manner because the manipulative seek a way to manipulate these people. They search for a way and find religion, but if they hadn't they would have found another way.
And not everybody who answers no to that question is an atheist. It can also imply that you do not think you know wether there is a god or that you do not think you know about the validness of reality and by that the validness of the interaction of a diety with reality. Both those views do not deny the existence of a diety but do answer no to the question.
Christianity has not stumped scientific progress in Europe. The christian church has both encouraged and discouraged scientific development, as some of it was beneficial to the church and some of it wasn't.
The actual suppression in the middle east is done through other means, usually military force. Religion is used there to keep the simple-minded quiet, which makes it easier to suppress them. (which is still bad yeah, but it is not the main tool.)
Religion can be used as mind-poison, but that is not what it is meant for, while it also supports the minds of many.

You imply Christianity didn't curb-stomp scientific progress in Europe? What am I even reading...

And the fact you think to know the meaning for religion baffles me. Religion is purely poison. You cannot argue for religion, the non-answer of non-answers, to support any mind. Not even the most feeble of minds does not work better when falsehoods are introduced.

I am implying Christianity altered scientific progress in Europe. It curb-stomped some scientific development paths, but extended others. These are different parts of scientific development and cannot be compared.

Well I do not know the meaning of religion. It is simply something that is in existence. But people can use it in different ways, and I meant that that was not a good way to use religion.
The problem with simple minds is that they cannot comprehend how things work, so religion is their solution as they cannot understand other reasons. If they do not know why they are doing what they are doing they will not function properly in our society, but now religion can tell these people what to do.

Then what scientific 'paths' did Christianity actively help enable in Europe?

And I do not accept your concept of religion being some kind of authoritarian force in keeping the simple people doing good. As there's nothing about religion that actively endorses good-doings without carrying bagage with it that promotes ill deeds.

Oh, my fucking god... Even more trolls complaining... What's next? ....I'm not even going to finish that... *sigh*

it's FA, drama is its fuel to keep powered.

More like corruption is its godawful fuel to keep going and going and going AND GOING!!!!!

if corruption is what you call people being idiots and spreading drama abundantly...sure! :D

Actually, I meant pornography, paraphilia, and all other ungodly things.

....................
i'll bite my tongue <333

Okay... Thanks a million, hun... *roll eyes*

please don't call me "hun".

Fine. Whatever. There's a reason why I rolled my eyes.

'ungodly'=anything considered 'human'
remember young mortal, humans=/=gods. so i guess it's only natural to forget that vital thing we preach and then toss out into the garbage two seconds later when it proves convenient <3

ps: that's assuming i hit correct eyeroll subject above?

Amen to this journal.. it's sad some people have nothing better to do but bring others down and be ignorant and intolerant, but expect understanding from others.

Lol tolerance, last time I heard from this group and it's members was that being gay was a sin.

That's very intolerant you know? Labeling someone's preferences as "sinful".

Lets say that I'm as tolerant as much as you guys are tolerant of homosexuals. If you call their preferences "sin", I'll call your religion "sinful" for doing so.

And it's your job to slander those who practice their religion, most of which don't agree with sexuality being a sin? Kudos to you then. Because that makes you all the more better than those who judge others. Good job.

and also don't say "you guys" like you lump me in and know how I feel about someone's sexual preference.

It's not about what you feel about whatever.

It's what you push forward from a religion. Stay on topic lol.

That can be their idea.
If the members of this group think that being gay is a sin, but accept the sinners, they show their grace. Not intolerance.
They are free to believe what they think is so, and they have just thoughts.
Some of their beliefs may class others as sinners, but they also forgive these sinners, which shows real tolerance.
Now you call these peoples religion sinful, and seem to not accept their sinfullness, which shows intolerance.
From a gay atheist btw.
You people got the right idea and if there is a heaven, I am sure the ones who follow this will not have to use God's grace to get to heaven. I wish you all the best of luck.

well not an atheist btw
but an agnosticist

Forgiving someone for some fault they didn't even commit doesn't speak for tolerance.
And calling [a] religious belief "sinful" or unfit is still refering to the belief. Intolerant religious beliefs and dogma deserve no tolerance. Don't tolerate the intolerant.

Well it does indicate tolerance.
Tolerance means accepting what (you think) is wrong. And telling someone you think what they do is wrong, but not treating them as a lesser person still shows that. Not accepting it shows intolerance, accepting it shows tolerance, and not thinking people are wrong renders "tolerance" inapplicable.
Now you can still think thinking of someone else as bad is bad, but accepting that religious belief shows your tolerance.

I'm talking beliefs - not people.
Ill-informed beliefs are to be corrected. Anything else is actually damaging and contraproductive. This isolationistic idea that beliefs are sacred is utterly dangerous - as ill-informed people will never be questioned or corrected, thus their ill-informed beliefs will grow.

And as our beliefs inform our actions we must always seek to squash ill-informed beliefs. This might be intolerant. But there has to be a fine line between tolerance and downright stupidity.