ah ya

some twerp on another journal made the same argument: that if you watch cub porn, you wanna molest kids IRL

i disagreed

there is a HUGE difference between demonstrating attraction to something - and then acting on it

The law usually outlaws the acting on it part - such as actually doing pedo things, like banging a kid, or gathering up naked pics of them

but fictional material is not illegal

see, by his logic, the following would be illegal:

1) most hollywood movies, for they contain shooting and killing

2) most computer games, for the same reasons


heck, any time you see something you want and think "hey it would be nice if i had that" - and then you notice its not very well guarded and the clerk is looking away. Do you take it? no? but you thought about it... does that make you a criminal? by the faulty logic, it would, which is silly.

thinking about something does not make one a criminal.


as for hard blush: i think a lot of people are failing to notice the difference between 'baby' cub porn, and 'teen but still underage' cub porn.

hell, how do you put an age on a cartoon anyway? I wanna draw a stick figure, add a label going "5 months old" and then draw it being fucked by other stick figures

guarantee you nobody would even notice.


it is only when the art looks 'real' enough that people freak out - so if you just make it stylized or open enough to interpretation, nobody can say anything

Lol, thank you. This exactly.

"thinking about something does not make one a criminal."

Mmm, thought crime. Fap fap fap.

*head desk*

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:15778037

i support this journal

SARAH WHERE YOU BEEN i miss you

Hear, hear!

I posted this on someone else's journal, but I was complimented on how it was written, so here's my take on it:

Having known "moral pedophiles" (I will explain this) in the past, the idea of cub porn, or even DRAWN child porn, does not necessarily invoke feelings of hatred, even if it's completely not my thing.

By "moral pedophiles", I am talking about people who realize that the idea of a younger being (under the age of puberty) arouses them, but they HAVE NEVER and WOULD NEVER act on it with a live human. In this instance, I have learned that pedophilia (the fetish for young girls/boys) is separate from child molestation (the actual act).
If never acted on, pedophilia is simply another fetish. In this instance, drawn porn of cubs or children is an appropriate outlet and a much better option than REAL child porn, which there is no excuse for, and abhors me.

I have met moral pedophiles with nieces, nephews, siblings, etc who are of the age that arouses them, and I have asked them if being around them invokes feelings of excitement. They have said no, absolutely not, and that they would never regard the children around them in a sexual way. They cared about them- in a way that any normal person would care for a child- and did NOT see them as being held in a sexual light.
It is likely that these ideals are not consistent amongst pedophiles, I'm only speaking from those whom I've spoken with in an attempt to understand it. For them, it was the idea or the fantasy of having something innocent- new and inexperienced. Being able to be the one that claims that, perhaps.

This may still sound horrible, but if you were to suddenly wake up and this is what turned you on- how would you deal with it? People I know have done "age play" with their partners as a way to act out this fantasy. A consensual role play with their partner acting younger. I know these people would rather die than hurt an actual child- it's simply a fantasy that makes their dick hard. It is hard to hold someone against something they can not control (what turns them on) whereas, I find it COMPLETELY fair to hold it against someone if they have acted on it and hurt a real child (something they CAN control).

There are also those who simply regard themselves (or their fursona) as being young or small. In this instance, they want to be the child. That one is a bit more complicated.

All in all, consent is important- recognizing Fantasy vs Reality is important. Upholding morals is important. As long as no one is harmed, physically or emotionally, everything is ok. I'm not sure if this answers all of your questions, or gives another perspective, but that's my take on it.

Personally, given the experiences I've had, I don't think I would be able to draw cub porn, or look at it. There's a few types of porn I dislike / can not handle. But if it's someone's interest, I won't bash it unless their personal fetish has harmed another human being/child, animal, etc. If it has, it's grounds for immediate arrest.

And, in this instance, I certainly do not think looking at cub porn would make people want to touch children. Fetishes are not necessarily created by looking at something frequently- usually they are realized by coming across it. (ex. "if I look at vore all the time, will it start to turn me on? probably not, if it's not your thing, but if I see vore for the first time and I'm turned on, well, shit, no turning back now. Still doesn't mean I'm going to eat people or ask people to eat me <.<) My point being that looking doesn't lead to wanting. And wanting does not usually lead to acting on it.

I'm not defending cub porn, nor am I against it. The logic for "this will lead to this" is not really sound, though.

Does any of this make any sense?

/end rant

Yeah, it's pretty fun repeatedly hearing people try to tell me that I molest children. Sorta like how I murder police officers because I've played GTA.

EXACTLY. Exactly! Thank you. <3

And I've done ageplay scenes before with my partner too- neither of us are in any way aroused by actual children. It's just play. Play is NOT the same thing as molesting kids.

/nod nod. Yep. :) Age play scenes can be a lot of fun. Definitely no relation to the act of molesting children. Far from it.
And, you're welcome <3

Yes it makes sense: I know of a case where a guy had, in his teens, accepted that he would die a virgin because the set of acceptable sexual partners and the set of people who turned him on were totally disjoint.

It turned out he was wrong: His adult wife is ~4'8" and completely flat chested.

She was also apparently quite happy: She found a guy who found her the height of female beauty and sexiness, plus she got to play the 'naughty schoolgirl' three nights a week.

:)

I'm not a fan of cub porn since it just makes me feel dirty. i can't seperate fact from fiction when it comes to these things, but whether someone is for it or not, no skin off of my ass. i just don't like seeing it.

Understandable! There should always be a warning thumbnail, or at least something in the title that would let you know the subject matter of a piece.

mmm i agree with you. some don't though, or it'll be like borderline cub and i'll squick. lol.

You speak the truth. :) Thank you for being a rational free-thinker.

Heh, thank you. I've done a lot of personal research on human sexuality, focusing on fetishes in particular, and why people are turned on by what turns them on. The subject fascinates me. Pedophilia is like any other fetish, and as someone who HAS an honest-to-goodness medical textbook fetish (tummies. Can't hump somebody who doesn't have the kind of tummy I like!), I also have personal insight into what it's like to be helplessly attracted to something.

 canishumanis's comment up there is EXACTLY what I was trying to explain. Some people are turned on by things and simply can't help that; that doesn't mean that they act on them. The art needs to exist so that they have an outlet.

Goddamn, you're really well-educated on the subject and have the exactly correct conclusion. =) Anyone familiar with kink, because they've taken the time to explore it and not repress it, understand that kink sorta chooses you, you don't choose your kinks. I have a huge panty fetish, I do NOT know why or how it came to be, and nothing I can do to get rid of it. I realize it's a rather MILD fetish as fetishes and kink goes, but it's a huge one for me personally - it makes a big difference. It's not even something I can consciously control, it's just there. I can imagine the same thing for pedophiles, zoophiles, etc. and they didn't choose to have that psychological hook-up, but it's there and without an outlet to explore it, even theoretically or through consenting roleplay... How are they supposed to get comfortable with it and accept it? Acting-out becomes the only form of release, and that's EXACTLY what we're trying to avoid here in this case.

Precisely! You choose what turns you on about as much as you choose what sexuality you are, or how tall you are. :p My tummy thing has been there for as long as I remember, and believe me, there have been times when I wish it didn't exist- Having to turn someone down who I otherwise find perfectly attractive just because they have a belly and I know it simply won't work isn't the most fun I've had!

That sort of thing is just a part of you. The human brain is so bloody complicated that it's like a mass of tangled wires; who knows how someone ends up getting a boner from military uniforms or kitchen appliances, but you can bet they're not going to be able to get in there to defuse it :p

Fun fact: Back in the day, when they were trying to 'cure' people of homosexuality and various fetishes using electroshock therapy, they would strap the 'patient' to a chair and show them arousing images while zapping them. It certainly didn't cure anyone, but it sure gave a lot of people a kink for getting shocked! XD

Hahaha, yeah, you won't know you like something till you try it, sometimes. ;D

Research would also indicate that if pedophiles have access to appropriate porn to relieve their tension they are less likely to act on their desires in real life. If the correlation between violent movie releases and immediately proceeding drops in violence in areas where they are shown is any indication.

Exactly! I roll my eyes every time I hear people say that violent video games/movies should be banned. They shouldn't be played/watched by children, but quite frankly, life gets pretty frustrating sometimes, and the average adult can certainly find some stress relief in shooting a few virtual people.

I know a lot of people who LOVE first person shooters, and find them therapeutic- people who would never run around shooting others in real life.

Well, there is some research on the subject.

When it comes to child porn, (inc. simulated CP), there is a correlation between being a molester and consuming CP. However there is also evidence that implies the causation is "people who are likely to molest children are more likely to desire to view CP," rather than "people who desire to view CP are more likely to molest children."


It's likely that CP in particular is like porn in general: No significant influence on the likelihood of committing sexual crimes unless the person is already very likely to commit them and they consume large amounts of pornography. (i.e. The guy was going to do it, the porn just caused it to happen a bit earlier.)

This is the first argument presented on the issue I've seen since the policy change that isn't full of ad hominem attacks, followed by people fawning all over the poster saying how they're so much more reasonable than everyone else. Well done.

Heh, thank you. That's what was making me angry. They're all basically,

"CUB PORN IS SICK, YOU PEOPLE ARE KID TOUCHERS, FUCK YOU AND GOOD RIDDANCE"
"WOW YOU ARE THE SMARTEST PERSON EVER, CHEERS TO THAT"

People need to think more.

Honestly I was seeing more stupid rants for the other side.

The problem is I agree with them in the sense that I don't believe art can be immoral. They go about it in the most emotion driven immature ways that make me embarassed to be seen taking a similar position though.

Also they fail to take into account the fact that banning cub art may still be practically prudent, principles aside.

It's a valid argument, but the ban is pretty much just a business decision. It was that or lose Alertpay.

I'm not really talking about the ban here- I understand why they did it, and it doesn't really matter to me. The people who are into that stuff can get it elsewhere.

AlertPay's already lost, and FA has no channel to appeal. So they're not likely to get them back regardless of the policy. This is just to prevent the next one from closing the door. That's the hope anyway, they might find something ELSE on the site morally reprehensible, like vore or scat or snuff or rape or...

Ah, seemed to have misread that part. But still, I don't really care all that much.

... all these weird porno images of people with animal heads? Like on them there CSI.

Hurhurhur, ayup. =D You sher gots a purty mouth~!