Wow, I've never had anyone be quite that rude about my prices and I put mine to reflect minimum wage and the hours put in less the administrative time spent.

Just... ouch.

Well here's something right back at them: If they don't want to pay a fair price their custom probably isn't worth THAT much!

looking forward to those new updates too :)

That is shitty D: I'd tell them precisely what they could do with that money.

hmm... I wonder what that could be! lol!

To take that money and SHOVE it right in their local Salvation Army bucket at any nearby shopping center!!

not what I was thinking, but that would be more beneficial!

Gee, I wonder what just happened to you. Seriously though, you have the power to say "thank you" and move on too - you're not a vending machine, and you have a right to refuse service to someone. If someone pisses you off, just say "next". That's the power of being self employed (amongst other benefits). Sometimes, you know someone's going to be more trouble than they're worth. You need only decline and wait for the next person to ask.

You're right, I should let everyone treat me like shit. What the hell was I thinking?


No but seriously, yes I could have said "next", but I chose not to. I got the right to do that as well. I normally ignore most retarded comments, but I dunno... I guess I just hate it if someone gets snippy over requesting me to draw their fetish work.

Man, did someone say that to you!? What a bitch!

Yeah.. .that's some shit when people really need to learn when to speak and when to keep their manpleasure shut

Thank you ;_; The prices for furry commissions are ridiculously low compared to private commissions in the 'real' world- something I get $45 for here, I get $150 AT LEAST for from a non-fur (or at least I could if I felt like charging differently for non-furry stuff - I mean it's what they EXPECT to pay) or I get $200-300 for from a company. Some people are just so greedy ;_;

It's so true. Most furs have NO IDEA what art is actually worth. All of the commissions I've done for non-furs, I was offered quite a bit more than what I normally charge, and THEY TIP. I have NEVER had a fur tip me.

I wonder how things got so twisted up?

I've had furs tip, you just have to be commissioned by the right people I suppose XD

I think it's a combo of a few things - firstly, the furry fandom is almost entirely art-based, and the theme is inclusion (unlike most other subcultures/fandoms, which are exclusive/elitest), so it follows naturally that the artists would try to be more approachable. Secondly, in the last 10 or 15 years, the main age block of the fandom has changed from 30-40 year olds to mostly 13 - 20 year olds. So, the fandom as a group has less money than it perhaps used to. Therefore, it's harder to get commissions with 'normal' prices if 90% of your fanbase is still living with mommy and getting allowance. In order to make a living, fur artists get to choose to either A) become so amazing that they get commissioned by every money-holding furry there is, or B) lower their prices.

a lot of supply i guess

It's called third degree price discrimination. If you can tell the difference between two groups of people, and you know they place different amounts of value on your art (say... a rich art collector, a company, a fur), then you should charge them different prices to maximize your profit across all the groups. If the highest price you can get from a group isn't enough for you, then you simply don't sell at that price.

Example: movie tickets. Students and senior citizens get discounts, because they can be readily identified and in general they don't have as much money to throw around as your standard adults. If you charged one price for everyone, you wouldn't get many students or senior citizens... if you lower the price just for them, you might find that you end up earning more that way.

So if you charge $500 to make a logo for companies, and they're willing to pay that, then great! If you charge that for furry art, you'll get few or no customers, because they're quite simply not the same sort of customers. If you can fill your days and your satisfaction by just doing those expensive jobs, then great... if not, you're going to have to have lower prices for the cheaper group of customers, or you won't sell anything to them.

that is quite true, and is indeed what I do, although I didn't know what it was called xD

The ironic thing is that people seem to be upset that they don't get to charge as much for a furry commission as a "professional" art commission, and they think they're being cheated out of money somehow. This is ironic because the purpose of this price discrimination is in fact to earn MORE money by picking the appropriate price for each audience. It's a fact of life that your average furry lover can't afford what a business can... price discrimination recognizes this and tries to maximize earnings :P

Yes, I agree. I don't complain about charging less to furries - it's my choice! And furry commissions tend to come with a lot less responsibility and pressure than a 'normal' one. Most furries are fantastic commissioners.

You also have to consider what the art is worth to the person. A logo for a company is worth more to them than a peice of spooge art is worth to the average furry. Unfortunately, it may be that the worth of a peice of spooge art is well below what an artist would consider to be a decent wage for the amount of work that has to go into it, but that's just the way things are.

You also have to consider that different artists take different amounts of time to produce the same work. Chaswari produces awesome work and his basic (but awesome) sketches take him like 30 minutes. Me however, if I tried to draw something like he does, it would take me a good three or four hours and I still wouldn't achieve near the same level of quality.

I think that $20 for an hour of work is a pretty reasonable price to charge, so if you're charging like $100 and the work's not taking you five hours, maybe you are charging a bit much, but market forces being what they are and all, if your work is that good or that in demand, by all means, charge what people are willing to pay. Just don't be surprised when some people get a bit pissed that you're asking $250 for a pic that will take you a couple hours to do. Some of us work for minimum wage!

Fortunately though, this stuff works itself out. If the work is worth more than what you're charging for it, you either charge more, or don't offer to do it. That's just common sense... you don't make a trade which isn't worth it to you, in this case, your time for their money.

Whether $20 is reasonable or not really depends on the artist's individual situation. As you said, some people can crank out awesome stuff in 30 minutes, some people would take several hours for the same result. Should you pay the slower artist many times more for the same result? That's debatable. I tend to look at things this way, though: if you weren't drawing something, what would you be doing, and how much is that worth to you? If you're working an hour less today so you can draw furry porn and earn twice what you would at work, then that's great for you, but a bit unfair to your customer. Even if you're earning the same hourly wage you'd get at a real job, you have to consider that you're probably enjoying the art more than the job (though this isn't necessarily the case: some commissioners are real dicks, and some jobs are lots of fun).

In the end though... it depends heavily on the artist's outlook and needs. They might figure "I'm going to be drawing furry stuff anyway, why not use FA users to give me ideas?" and take requests, for free. They might say "I could be earning $20 an hour at my job, so I'm going to charge that for any art I work on." and really bleed their commissioners dry. Or they might take a path somewhere in the middle and say "I'd normally be doing this for fun, but having somebody being picky about poses and details is a bit of a nuisance, so I'm going to charge them a bit for the stress they cause, and to cut back on the number of ideas they toss my way". Where on the spectrum you fall is entirely up to you.

I just sort of skimmed your post, so if this is way off, I'm sorry, but I saw this sentence:

"If you're working an hour less today so you can draw furry porn and earn twice what you would at work, then that's great for you, but a bit unfair to your customer."

I think that's rather.. presumptuous? It's not true at any rate. As long as the customer is happy with what they get, and willing to pay what they did, it's perfectly fair. Someone just gave me $200 for a commission in an auction, and I fully intend to give them what they consider $200 worth of art - whether or not anyone else thinks it is is totally irrelevant :3

I guess it all boils down to an individual perspective.

No, not really - if a customer thinks they're getting a fair deal, then they are, no matter what 'perspective' you're looking from. With something as subjective as art pricing, it's really not up to any outsider to say. The final product is what counts. I think artists like Kyoht deserve quite easily five times as much for an hour of work as they would get at a job stocking shelves - if that's what their customers are willing to pay. You're coming across as being the sort of person Cownugget is taking issue with in the first place :/

Fine. Back to the economic theory it is.

For any item, there is the so-called "reservation price" which is the maximum that a customer would be willing to pay for something. Any more, and they're happier with keeping their money. Any less, and they're happier with buying the item (and the lower the price, the more "consumer surplus" they get, i.e. the happier they are with the deal they got). Similarly, for any artist, they've got their bare minimum costs, which include supplies and the value they could get by spending their time doing something else--like a regular paid job. If they charge any less, they could make more by simply spending that time at work (however, they might still choose to work at these prices because they enjoy drawing, or making other people happy pleases them), and if they charge any more, they're happy (and getting "producer surplus") because they're covering their baseline costs, paying for their time, and pulling in something extra.

Thus at any price, there is a division of economic surplus into consumer and producer surpluses--the more that is charged, the happier the producer is at the expense of the consumer, and the less that is charged, the more the consumer is happy at the expense of the producer. If you reduce consumer surplus to zero and charge their reservation price, the consumer is indifferent between getting the art at that high price, or not getting the art and perhaps buying from someone else. In that case, where you're bleeding the customer for all they're worth, I would hope you would agree that it's not really fair for the customer--the producer has just taken all their surplus, banking on the facts that he/she is a discriminating monopolist. That is to say, the artist can charge more or less for a customer as he sees fit, and some haggling might take place, allowing them to charge the highest possible price.

Now, it is a matter of perspective about who deserves how much of the economic surplus. Some people think that the artist should squeeze every penny they can from the customer. Some people think the artist should only charge what their time would be worth on the open market. Some people think the artist should even charge less than this, given that they will probably be making art for fun during their free time, and thus the customer is just paying for suggesting an idea and any hassle or annoyance they may incur (hence the reason some people take requests--they're going to draw porn anyway, so they don't feel right charging for it). See what I meant about it being individual perspective? Some artists will charge as much as they can get away with, and some will work for very cheap or even free because they feel differently about things.

This is why I'm NOT the kind of customer that Cownugget has a problem with--at least not for that reason. I won't tell an artist that their art isn't worth what they're charging because pricing is a perspective thing, rather I'd avoid comment or if pressed would say it's a bit more than I was looking for. It's true that, for me, their art isn't worth that much--or else I'd be buying it!--but by saying their art isn't worth that much, it can come off as a definitive statement about how it's not worth that much to ANYONE (which is a silly thing to say as well, because you'll always get 'that guy' who has $500 to dump on a Furbid auctioned commission). No, for better or worse, I generally try to be diplomatic and respectful to artists, and not complain loudly about prices.

I am, however, fed up with the view that artists are highly exploited individuals who have to put up with tons of crap from their customers. While there might be cases where that happens, in my personal experience, it's often the other way around. I paid $100 for a commission back in February and I'm still waiting on a sketch of it, while I'm getting nothing but excuses or being outright avoided by the artist. It's not the first commission I've had which has slipped into the 6+ month waiting period with absolutely no progress done on it. Most of my current outstanding commissions have been as such for 2-3 months and I've still not got so much as a sketch to show for them. And isn't it fun when you pay an artist and give a tip, then they take on a bunch of other commissions which they complete first before you complain enough that they finally start working on yours? I have worse horror stories of course, but I think you get the point. That sort of stuff wouldn't fly in the real world. If you're going to be paid to do a logo for a company and it's approaching the 1-year mark and you don't have anything, the company would've probably already fired you 100 times over. And the artist would have to treat the company with a lot of respect, rather than what happens in the fandom with the customers giving all the respect and benefit of the doubt to artists.

All this having been said, yeah, I don't insult artists by telling them their art isn't overall worth as much as they think. At worst, I'll tell them that it is out of my price range.

Wow, I actually read all that @.@

However, it's a shame you risked carpal tunnel tapping all that out, considering... you've completely missed the point. Economics - Capitalism - they're not about MORALS. The customer only 'deserves' as much surplus as each individual customer believes they do. Ditto the artist. If an artist can charge a price that is far and beyond most customers' reservation prices and still make a living, more power to them! It's not for anyone else to judge. Obviously their prices are, as you say, out of the price range of most, but it doesn't make their art not worth it - it makes most people not able to afford that sort of 'quality' (which IS a matter of perspective). In capitalism, people 'deserve' what they can afford and what they've worked for - no more and no less.

By the way, I do find it slightly ignorant that you're assuming the artist in any given situation is a hobby artist. I can guarantee that almost all the artists charging the prices you see as 'unfair' are doing it for a living. I am. Just because you can't afford a $3000 set of beautiful hand-carved end tables doesn't mean that the carver is charging 'unfair' prices. It means you don't earn enough to afford nice things. I can't tell from your phrasing whether you feel more along the 'unfair' lines or the 'can't afford things that are worth what's charged for them' lines. :/ But it still really bothers me that people treat artists so much differently than craftspeople, or any other job really.

I don't think that artists are the only ones maligned here. I know that commissioners get ripped off every day (although I try my damndest to make sure that I don't do that to anyone - and that nobody does it to me). Although, honestly, the prices when you buy from a hobby artist don't really cover the type of responsiblity a lot of commissioners seem to expect. Furries get ridiculously low prices - we've covered this already - and in return they get lazier, less dedicated artists. It's true that if it's was a 'real world' commission, any artist would be fired for missing as many deadlines as your average hobby artist does. But a hobby artist doesn't get paid anywhere near as much. They don't get paid for deadlines, generally. I'm sorry that you got ripped off, but I'm sure that if you had fully done your research beforehand, you would have known that the artist you chose had a poor reputation - unless you were their very first commissioner, it's pretty rare that an artist with a good track record will suddenly screw someone for no reason.

Anyway my roommate is playing American Dad really loud in the next room and it's almost impossible to keep my mind on track with the noise, so I'll cut this off. If it's disjointed, I'm sorry.

My point is still valid. Anything above the base costs of the artist will make them happy. Anything below the reservation price of a customer will by definition make her happy. Where the selling price falls between these determines just how happy each person is with the deal.

Example. If an artist wants to charge at least $50 for something, and I'll pay up to $100 for it, any price between $50 and $100 will make us both happy. Is it more fair for the artist to get the bare minimum they want to get, or the customer to pay the absolute max they want to pay, or to strike some point between there? That's what I meant about it being an individual opinion on what's more fair.

I think you're a bit mixed up about 'quality' and 'deserve' and such. Something is only worth as much as people are willing to pay for it. If you want to charge $500 for a drawing and it's not worth it to me, then it's quite simply... not worth it to me. It's not that I don't deserve that level of quality, that it's too rich for my blood, that I can't afford it. It's just that it is not worth that much to me.

I'm not assuming that all artists are hobby artists. That would be a silly thing to assume. I'm merely saying that SOME artists are hobby artists, and in their individual cases, it might make sense to charge low prices for art because they're basically just taking a suggestion for art they would otherwise make. For professionals who spend a lot of time and resources making that $3000 set of end gables, things are of course different. See, you need to stop with this "you can't afford this" bit. There is such a thing as unfair pricing. If you can whip up that $3000 set in 10 minutes (an exaggeration, but it proves the point), that's far more than you could earn doing almost anything else, and by charging $3000 for it, your pricing is unfair. Just because you can find a customer who values the set that highly doesn't make the pricing fair--you're still overcharging. Life's not fair, but that doesn't keep us all from working with it anyway. You get my point? If somebody takes a day off from work (say they'd be working 8 hours at $20 an hour) and they work on digital art during that time, if they do $160 in commission work during that time, then that pricing is fair. If they do $80 in commission work during that time, then they're obviously in it for more than just money. If they get $320 in commission work during that time, I'd say they're overcharging. That's just how I feel. Again, it is NOT that I "can't afford things that are worth what's charged for them". It's taking issue about whether the person is charging a competitive price. Please stop insisting that people who don't buy something can't afford that quality... to them, that quality is just not worth the expense.

Forgive me for not thinking to dig around and see if well-known artists and friends have ever ripped people off. I seem to mistakenly assume that when I pay somebody who is an established member of the community, they'll be prompt, i.e. at least make a sketch within a couple months. So far, Devvo seems to be the only person now who has the wonderful policy of only charging after he's done a sketch and promised results shortly after payment. Straydog was pretty good about that too, fairly prompt and taking payment after the sketch, but he changed his policy to require it up front. Most people though seem to be pretty content to ask for money up front and just... not... provide results. When we're dealing with traditional stuff there's possibly a need for payment before getting started, if supplies must be bought... when we're talking digital, no money is needed to get started and why exactly artists think it's okay to ask for money and give nothing back is just beyond me. Excuses, excuses, excuses. "I'm busy, sorry." "I'm sick, sorry." "I've got exams, sorry." If you don't have any intention of starting my commission yet, then why exactly do you need money down to guarantee I won't pull out? It drives me crazy.

You're still missing the point. There is no 'fair'. If a craftsman wants to charge $3000 for something he made in ten minutes and he has a buyer, and the buyer is happy, it's perfectly fair. Do I deserve less money for my art because I can work faster than the next guy? Some people would suggest that means I 'deserve' more (although IMO they would be wrong; it's the end product that counts).

Many well-known artists are well-known for things besides their art. It is *because* people don't check around to see who's responsible first that irresponsible artists are able to *stay* established members of the community. And if it was a friend? That says more about your ability to pick friends than anything else, yeesh. I'm sorry they turned out to be a dud. I don't buy from friends if I can help it - and if I do, I make sure I know what is standard for them first.

Why should an artist give you a free sketch before asking for money? That puts me in just a bad of a place - now you have something I worked on, and even if it didn't cost materials it did cost me time, and if you run off with it, I'm just as SOL. The fact of the matter is that the artist has the product and the commissioner is a customer, just like at a store. You wouldn't expect a clothing store to let you wear their sweater for a couple of days before paying for it! You expect to be able to see their wares and *maybe* try something on before you buy it - and good artists have galleries you can see and their commission prices and practices posted and easily understandable.

Why furries think that an artist is some kind of porn machine without feelings, a life, or an immune system is just beyond me. Before MFF I was frazzled to my wits' end busy with badges and art show pieces, trying to get everything done so I could make enough money to pay my rent, and yeah, because of that, some commissions got pushed back a week or two. Last week I got really, really sick and had to spend a day in bed to get better because I could not keep the cohesion of mind and will to draw thanks to the medication I was taking in order to not cough up a lung. I'm not in school, but if I was you can damn well be sure that I would be taking time off from commissions to study. If I ask for money down, it's to make sure I know what order to complete your work in - because it damn sure wouldn't be fair to the people who have been waiting in line before you, having already paid, for me to just jump you in whenever you feel like it because goddammit you want your picture NOW.

And really, the cold hard fact is that artists get fucked too. I started asking for payment first because I found that when I didn't, people ran off with free sketches. If that means you don't want to commission me? Fine. There are plenty more people who do. But it doesn't make it unfair. The concept of 'fairness' has no place in a business contract you are not taking part in.

I really, really hope that the last paragraph there is just a result of you being frustrated with the hack you bought from. I started off this conversation feeling friendly and ... well, conversational. I enjoy lively debate. But that last paragraph of yours really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I don't want to get rude or upset, so I think I'm done now - thanks for a couple days of interesting conversation. I'll see you around. :>

I never said an artist should give me a free sketch. Maybe the artist gives the sketch after payment--you know, MINUTES after payment rather than "I'll start some time after you pay me, maybe a few months from now". You want to use the store comparison? Great. I don't go into a store, pay for the product, and wait half a year. I pay, and within seconds to minutes I'm free to go with my product. That's fair.

I don't think artists are porn machines without lives. Hell, I'm friends with some (hence the commissioning friends thing). But I'm not a bank either, and I'm not so big on giving loans :(

I'm not frustrated or upset right now. I'm being totally logical and fair. I'm totally willing to compensate an artist for their work. I'm also willing to be patient and flexible about things. What I don't like is when you pay somebody up front and they take weeks or months before they even start on anything. Are my proposals so radical? When you're about to start the sketch then ask, and I'll pay you. Don't ask for $50 or $100 or $500 up front before you even have the spare time to start. It's a lot easier to put off starting on something when you've already been paid for it. That's all.

If I were to provide a customer with a sketch just after payment, that would mean I had done the work already - and if the customer decides not to pay me, I've still got a half hour of work that I could have spent working on a paying customer's piece, and a wasted piece of paper.

There is a wait time, for me, between when someone pays and when they get something - because of my waiting list. Customer A pays me $10, and I get to work on their picture, but while I'm working on it, Customer B also wants a commission, and Customer C. So they pay me $10 each, and then Customer B doesn't see anything for a week until I'm done A's picture, and C doesn't see anything for two weeks until I'm done with both A and B's pictures. You see? If I just say 'oh, ok B and C, I know you both have money now, but since I can't provide immediate results, I'm not taking any money until I'm ready to start', that's fine and dandy - until it's been a week, and I'm ready to take B's commission - but B has spent the money on gum or something and now has no money for me, and needs another week to save up. So I contact C, and C found another artist to do the picture and isn't interested any more. So now, instead of having $30 and three weeks of work, I have $10, a week of work/completed image, and a week of sitting around twiddling my thumbs while I wait for B to save up what they owe me. I find things just work better with the waiting list system.

As to putting off starting things because you've already been paid - most artists I know that have trouble getting work done are the exact opposite. If they haven't taken any money yet, they are not inclined to do work because they feel like there's no reason to, they aren't 'getting paid' yet and they do not yet have an obligation. Once they've been paid, they feel obligated and compensated, and are much more likely to work quickly.

Unless you're physically at the same location as your customer, somebody has to take a risk of the other person running. I just don't see why it's more fair for the customer to put all their money down and risk the artist not doing anything for weeks or months (and if the customer demands their money back and badmouths the artist, said customer is promptly attacked by a hundred raving fanboys and "lol drama" criers) rather than have the artist risk their customer running off and not paying for a half-hour sketch. If an artist claims unfair treatment, they can destroy the reputation of a fur. If a fur claims unfair treatment, they can have their journal flooded with fanboy insults. As a fur who has a decent amount of art about my character made and in the works, the idea that I'd run with a sketch, or drop the artist and leave them with an unpaid sketch, is just silly. Does it look like I'd be content to take up a new name and character because you ruined my reputation as a customer? Does it look like I have problems negotiating payments and art commissions with other artists? Number of times I've not followed through with a payment: 0.5 (was delayed a few hours while I borrowed money from a friend to pay). Number of times I've not gotten a sketch within a few days: too many to count.

I don't see why you can't just have a wait list.  devvo is a perfect example of this. I made a request, he approved it and shortly after put me on his wait list. A week or so later he got me a quick digital sketch and asked for any corrections on the pose and such, and full payment when I was ready for him to move on from there. I actually think this is pretty fair for spreading out risk--he takes a risk by making a crude digital sketch for me which I might not pay for, I take a risk by paying him for the final result which he might not produce in a timely manner or ever. Of course, because he takes the smaller risk (a quick digital sketch for free, versus paying for a non-existent commission), he takes it first. Anyway, I can kinda see the risk with Customer B, because as I said above, at one point I had spent money I was setting aside for a commission, and had to scramble to get payment for it. However, if you keep in contact with your customer and say "if you have payment ready, I'll start your sketch, and have it to you in a couple hours" the chances of them blowing it on other stuff are basically nil. And for Customer C... well... I hate to say it, but it's actually the fair thing if that customer can commission somebody else instead. If they find another artist who they think would be better suited for that particular drawing, or if you're too busy to get it done quickly, or if that artist is really short on cash, or for any other reason the customer wants to go with the other artist over you, if you haven't given them anything then they should be able to pick up and leave. It's like a restaurant--if you're waiting in the line to get in, or you're in and you've been waiting a while and they haven't even gotten stuff for you to drink, then you shouldn't feel bad if you change your mind and decide another place is better for you. Insisting on having money put down possibly weeks in advance just to hold a slot means that you want to tie a customer down to you, and I can't imagine why you'd want that.

We must just have very different opinions on how people's minds work. I think that the guilt factor is less powerful than the food factor. If you know that you have to work on a drawing in order to get paid and get money for Christmas presents, electricity, food, rent, etc, you're going to be really motivated to do those drawings, because you know you won't get paid until you do (note that if the need for those things is extremely time-sensitive, it's acceptable to ask for payment first, because you won't have the electricity, house or internet access needed to send the final product if you don't get paid ASAP). If you get paid first and have possibly already spent the payment on stuff, then the only motivation to work quickly, aside from personal work ethic (which we're ignoring because that yields fast results either way), is the guilt factor. And well, I've seen how little impact that can have on many artists.

Ok, now I really am following up on what I said and stepping out. I kept up another post because when I looked at it on a new day I wasn't as stressed or bothered, and I thought I could continue this discussion. However, I got about halfway through reading this post and realized that you don't appear to even be reading/considering what I'm saying - so there doesn't seem to be much point in continuing. Again, thank you for a few days of interesting conversation.

Cownugget, sorry for clogging up your journal ;_______________________;

If you don't want to discuss it, then fine. But don't accuse me of not reading or considering what you're saying.

I suddenly feel like quoting Penn and Teller all over your face. >_> Don't suddenly accuse people of stuff like that because they're... uh... right, and don't want to be wrong. :P I actually wasted the time to read all those bloody posts... and I must say, it is not Twile who missed the point, it was you.

people dont like paying artists so much is because they feel they can get it cheaper they are comparing prices of a mass produced poster to that of a comissioned piece made from their ideas. a picture has only one function and they feel why am i paying so much for a piece of paper. a hand crafted table serves two functions it looks good and as a table. people are willing to pay more for things that have more than one function. thats why sculptures that serve a second function other than just looks is mostlly what you find for sale to the mass public.

that is how i think most people think.

different people think different. a more experienced person that pays for his ideas to be made into art has already come to terms with how much it costs him to create such a piece of quality. if your prices are similar to other artists you feel produce similar quality art to your own then you are charging the correct prices and the more experienced customer will realize that and pick his favorite artist. if you are an artist of lower quality you can not expect to charge people the same as a artist of higher quality. but there is always a few straggelers who are good artists and dont value there own art as much as others do and end up charging less. less experienced buyers have no idea the prices or what to expect period.

and then the factor of time it takes you to make a piece versus someone else of the same quality and how do you measure your time are you watching tv in between drawing or are you doing nothing but drawing.

well i thought i had more to say but i hate reading it takes me way to long and some how its 3am

I would beg to differ with that paypal payment I gave you a while back. :3

I try to quote my prices at a price that *I* would like to pay if I were commissioning an artist of my stature. Take an artist that is more popular, like... Fred Perry of Gold Digger. He charges $40 to $60 PER CHARACTER, if it is not one of his own characters. It may seem high, but why should he BOTHER drawing MY character when he has a frikkin comic book to do? I I were to commission him for my own characters, I should be honored that he'd even consider it for $40.

Heck, I've had people (even customers) tell me I should INCREASE my prices, but I do not, because I feel that at the moment I feel I am comfortable with my prices.


Blah blah blah blah BLAH!!

Honestly, $40 - $60 per character is quite low. Take a gander at  kacey's prices sometime - they're a lot closer to 'real world' commission prices as I've experienced them.

For my own prices, I set them at a 'busy' level. How high can my prices go and I still stay busy? How high does my 'color work' price have to be that I still get line art commissions? Etc. If you're getting swamped, it's time to up your prices. If you're not getting enough work, lower them. And so on.

You kidding? I heard Dark Natasha does 400 for a colored piece. :O Even $40 is high with the economy as it is =(

~N~

some artists charge more obviously :P and good on them if they can sell like that.

But still.. that's -ALOT- of money x.x

~N~

I'm sure she wouldn't charge it if there wasn't a bunch of people willing to pay it. And frankly, my god, have you seen her art? It's worth it!

Her work is exquisitely good, that is true. But I cant justify spending a whole check on any 1 piece of art. ANY. Like those people that splatter paint on a canvas and sell it for THOUSANDS.. I just want to go there and laugh so hard in their face for spending that much =/ But I guess if you got the money, throw it around however ya want. Just see that it trickles down our way too =(

~N~

I hope whoever said that to you got a tire on to the face.
And, moew cownugget art!!! :D

Ugh, I've gotten that too.

A good response to that is, 'YOU'RE not worth that much!!'

Childish, perhaps, but fun. 8D

It's sad how so many people are quick to try and cover up the fact that they're cheapskates by insulting others. :(

*hugs* I'm sorry rude furries pissed you off hun *hugs*

Amazing isn't it? Rather then just move on with their lives and maybe go to another artist or something with their art they think its worth the time to tell you that your not worth their money and to point out how they think your asking for too much money for a commission. I've read huge well thought out complaints over minor things, its like these people live to complain about stuff and get some kind of excitement from it...I wonder is this some kind of kink or fetish?!

You shoulda told that fool to draw their own shit then XD so you could laugh at it.

However, I think karma will bite that asshate in the ass soon enough anyway :3

I usually just say, "Oh, I'm sorry, but that's nmore than I can afford right now" and leave it at that.

I thought your prices were reasonable and worth it.

Would be nice if I got the product one day, though. It's been 3 years ;_;

people are dicks

what do you expect?

Dude, when you're in demand as much as you... I hope you diddn't feel bad for TOO Long. :)

Bleah. Your prices are pretty reasonable for the quality of the work. Besides, in the art world as elsewhere, you get what you pay for.

Cheapskating starving artists is just not cool. If you can't afford even a reasonable rate, don't commission!

Hear hear. Very valid point and I frankly don't think people realize how many hours goes into a seemingly "simple" sketch.

...and the prices of artworks in this fandom is grossly low compared to the norm... I remember doing a digital color commission for someone back in high school and my art teacher walked by and saw it, so she asked how much I sold that one for. "$30", I said; she gasped and said "I wouldn't do that for $200!"

You're putting more art up?? YAY!!!! ^_^

If an artist quotes me a price I can't afford, I say exactly that. I can't afford it. Not within ze budgeto, sorry batman!

Some people are just rude. Just ignore them.

I've had people outright tell me that they'd rather not pay for a commission from me, and would rather have me just draw it for them as a gift. Then ask me to do so. lol what

But just saying that your art is not "worth" what they're expected to pay... that's pretty shitty. What a douche. I hope he/she commissions some really awesome artist for really cheap, and then suddenly and inexplicably goes blind before it's finished. Fucking owned.

The only answer is to charge more. Obviously

*shrugs* I looked in the commissions section, and I don't see what your prices are. If you put some up, people will do the math to see if they can afford the commission. They may or may not still be annoyed by the prices, but by the time they contact they'll most likely have already made their decision to buy a commission. =)

The pricing should be moved here as well, but it is on his  gunmouth account.

However, not everyone may know that these are the same prices, or that they change due to complexity.

more than one account? *head explodes*

More likely than you think!

I've had experiences similar to Atomic Stoney, in that people would ask me for gift art, and flat out tell me that they'd rather not pay for it because they can go to a more experienced artist at get the same image drawn better for less money.

In that case, I just tell them to go ahead and not bother me with their ridiculous requests anymore XD.

....was the name of the person who said that, Danji Draconid? He did that to me and to my roommate and to my friend.

Word.

Tha is a very un-Furlike comment.

Wow, it's like you read my...recent identical experiences. o_O

You know what that actually means, though, is NOT that you're not worth it. The fact that someone takes the time to insult you about the price rather than moving on is because he/she actually really badly wants something specifically from YOU, but can't afford it.

It has nothing with thinking you're not worth it, just complaining about the unfairness of not being able to have exactly what he/she wants (awesome commission + paying nothing for it).

That is certainly very rude! If I get a quote that is well above what I was expecting, I'd bow out gracefully. Fortunately hasn't happened yet.

I think your art is great, I'd love a commission sometime, if I could think of something cool enough.

LOLzzz!!!! thanks fer that!!!

Although theres alot of real asses out there....You gotta roll with it!!

I suppose another retard came for the "id pay you 10 USD and nothing more" XD

So you're insecure enough to get irritated by such a comment?


I shall make a note about that.

And then what?

Then I masturbate while hiding in the bushes across the street from your house.

yeah, that's rude! I try to keep my prices as low as I can since I don't really think that my art is THAT good yet X3

I wish someone would tell me how much my art is worth. XP

What bugs me is when someone's really interested in commissioning me, and I give them a price range, but tell them that it's flexible if that's not what they were expecting. (Cause I draw for a hobby, not for money. It's just icing on the cake. ;P And art's only worth what someone pays for it. All the work and effort put into it is worthless. It's the finished product that counts, unless it's performance art.)

Then I never hear back from them. I guess people are too shy to say "Yo, I'll give you $x for a sketch, but $y is right out!"

I've noticed a lot of people are afraid of artists, and are quite timid when commissioning. Mostly because they go on tirades about the jackasses and it makes them nervous that it'll come back to them if they say the wrong thing.

...

But I guess the rules change when you get better and your work is popular or well recognized.

When someone commissions you, do you accept because you want to draw? Or because you want the money?

Man, your art is awesome. That guy was just a cheapskate who can't afford to pay you what your art is worth.

simply put, if they cant afford it, then don't bitch about it, its probably pricey for a reason, however few seem to fail to realize that.

pay no attention to those kind of people, we don't need to bother with them when there are many more respectful individuals out there.

anyhow, looking forward to seeing that inked piece! ;)

you know its really messed up that someone would do that to you. your artwork goes beyond the words of amazing in my eyes. I did want to ask of a comission to be done by you an I'll pay full price for it!!

true, but you know how it goes. No matter how much you're going to rape your own labor costs, there's someone out there willing to do it for cheaper. Try and sell the brand: getting one of YOUR commissions would be unique, so they're missing an opportunity, and slam that home.

i've been at commisions properly for 2 weeks now >> haven;t had anything like that yest just a fair colplaint or two over some really old commisions which i might have gotten done if fa hadn't gone offline and ruined my decent drawing spree

That IS bull to say something like that. A simple "No thanks, that's a bit out of my range" would suffice =/

~N~

Twat-bag fuckwads. Nobody should say something that assholish. They should think about the hours it will take that you could be doing something else... and realize "Oh, wait, it's only four or five bucks an hour!"

Oh, also, I got my first Credit Card, and wanna commission ya sometime! <3

wow people do that. well i have worked in a pharmacy and i tell people how awful customers are and they are like wow people do that so i guess i am not surprised when it comes to what people do or say when you come into such a large group of people. and especially when they believe they will die without their medicine and you cant give it to them for whatever reason.

that is rediculesly rude and it make me angry to see that people have done that. i am not an artist and i still understand. well i have worked on computers and they basically do the same thing you work on there computer for hours to clean up the shit that they accumulated over a year or more and some people want a brake in the price after i drove to there house, i don't take brakes for food, i work on the damn thing all day, they can never be bothered to back shit up ahead of time even if i tell them to so if things get bad and i have to wipe everything out and then play the what files do they want or need that they arent telling me they want or need. they see me there working on it wasting my whole day. and i charge a very low price to begin with and then i try not to let it go over a certain price thinking that i will never get paid that. but yeah when i think about it wow.
i dont do that anymore. and its not like it was fun. and as time went everything changed. stuff was simpiler back in windows 98 day. i was young and i didnt know the value of money. but work wasnt steady. i am much happier working at a job that i get paid by the hour allthough i get paid less per hour i get more hours of work and i dont have my stupid self imposed maximum price that i felt comfortable charging. i work for a company and they pay me not some cheap ass guy off the street who doesnt realize or care that you need to maintain your computer like you would your car. why learn about your pc if you can pay someone else to fix it right?


but i know how you feel. like the other guy said you can charge business's a lot more than you can charge jo shmoe. but i never got business calls i always got personal calls.

when people used to do that in the pharmacy i said fine go somewhere else then. it wasnt money out of my pocket. the still paid me minimum wage regardless of how many customers i lost them by being rude back to rude customers. but it didnt seem like they were gona shop there if they just came in and complained how they hated everything about us. i have had really rude customers. and customers that threaten your life. it just depends on your job. never work in a pharmacy you dont get paid enough to put up with customers yelling at you for things that arent your fault.