For me it's a subtle form of escapism. I wouldn't say as much the average take that a furry has on the fandom, but just enough to enjoy a bit of imagination in it. Kind of like a night of D&D, or writing a story or drawing a picture for anything non-furry. It's a moment away from reality, but hopefully not an unhealthy one.

A fun hobby.

I also like aviation and roller coasters (I spend more time fantasizing about the former than furry), but I have yet to see someone try to tell me that my other interests are anything more than a hobby.

Furry is too diverse to pidgeonhole that way.

For me, my furry-ness is mostly fetish, but is also deeply entwined with my spiritual path. I wouldn't call furry a lifestyle for me, since it has little effect on my day-to-day life, goals, or choices. I wouldn't call it escapism either. It is largely fantasy, certainly, but more of a hobby than an escape.

For others, furry is markedly different. Some take it further than I do, some less far. Some don't fetishize it all, and others see no spiritual side. Furry-dom is too individual and unique a self-identification for many generalities to consistently apply.

Furry is a fandom. Just as anime fans tend more toward cosplay than do traditional science fiction fans, and hard sci fi folks tend more toward atheism, while fantasy fans tend to be Pagan-ish, every fandom has its trends and general themes. Furry has its own quirks and differences from other fandoms, as do they all, but it's just a fandom, with all the diversity and undefinability that any fandom entails.

One werewolf's $.02

Well, i avoided to generalize aynthing, since we are humans after all and everyone has their unique goals and wishez ;3 I mostly want to find out, why people roll with the furry thing - it offers understanding to human psychology why some people find anthromorphic animals interresting ;3

I get that. Ok, then, here's my answer. My earliest memory is of my mother being too busy to spend time with me, so I was left alone with the family dog. I pulled her tail, and she gave me this look that I just knew meant: "you should know better. Please don't hurt me like that." I felt so bad, and so grateful for her loving patience with me. Ever since then, I have a very close communication with animals. My first word was dog.

Later in life (but not much later), I developed a sensual fetish for monsters - basically anything humanoid and not gross (like zombies), no matter how otherwise alien. Werewolves were my favorite, I think because of the wild, primal power, and the need to chain them up on the full moon.

Between the two, and the crush I had on Disney's cartoon Robin Hood as a child, I think becoming a furry was inevitable.

Which is basically the same answer. Furry isn't my spirituality, but it's related, and it is a strong sensual fetish for me, as well as a hobby/interest.

What about you? And <off topic> why is this the journal I was online to catch in time to be the third poster, huh? *rolls eyes* I'm never online when you post your free art journals. *grin* I think it's super cool when you do those though, even if I never win.</off topic>

I rather stumbled upon furry while browsing sum animes, found sum comics then, the rest is history. I think my exposure to bunch of cartoons as a kid did also a ton to decide on this style. If sumone asked me, i really couldnt say WHY i do anthro artwork - altho i mostly use it to explore Human Psychology, since Anthromorphic Animals allows one to touch sum taboos that ya cant do with humans without funny looks - like sexuality, racism and society.

I get that. Another artist I watch ( stasisdelirium) talked recently about exploring some of those issues by telling a traditional fantasy story from the POV of goblin characters. To me, that sort of thing is totally what sci fi, fantasy, and similar types of fiction are for - to explore the human condition in ways difficult or impossible to do with more "realistic" stories. It's all about understanding ourselves.

I think animals sometimes hold up a mirror for us to understand ourselves better too, so in that regard, furry and psychology may often be related interests. I wonder if that had anything to do with why the Egyptians pictured their gods the way they did.

Anthromorphic animals in religion are rather embodyment of a certain power, combined with the trait of that animal - so Anubis is a shakal, which tends to gnaw on carcases and so on. Eaven in older religions the thought that consuming an animal gives the consumer sum of its life strength - killing a bar in neolit was followed by a quite lengthy religious ritual.
So yes - animals as gods has to do with the same urge to empower our body with the animalistic traits, altho we tend to define it psychologicly rather then religiously

depends on the religion, but mostly, maybe. Some of the old ones, who knows what people were thinking. *shrug* We just make guesses based on archeology.

but the rest, yeah. totally.

Well, the whole "Eating a thing to aquire its powers" is where canibalism rooted in - other then having nothing to eat :3

yeah, I don't know much about cannibalism, except that most of the cases were fabricated (outside desperate starvation). Probably not all though. *shrug* Still, my studies have tended to shy away from the topic (as in, the authors I've read shied away from it, not me), so I haven't learned much in that area.

Well, most of the stuff we know about canibalism is based on slander of 16th century explorers, but aztecs tended to devour the victims of their sacrifices - for what purpose its unknown, but its purely religious, dats for sure. As for other canibalistic tribes, it also had shamanistic background - eating a heart of enemies shoulder made them take over sum of the warriors strength for example. This can be followed back to the roots, where eating parts of animals bestowed that animals traits on the consumer - or so they believed. Canibalism of today is purely fetishistic without any ideal behind it, so just a wish of a sick and twisted mind - as to be seen by vore, altho im ok with it, since its purely imagenative and doesnt harm anyone...

heh, ok. I mean, I've heard all that. I study a lot of shamanism and animism. I just don't know any reliable sources about real-world and/or historical culturally-enshrined cannibalism. Some of the South American cultures went a bit crazy though, it's true.

As for vore. . . that's an interesting take on it. Never really thought of it that way. What about people who like vore because they want to be eaten? Not saying it can't be the same thing, but just curious if you think so.

Well, i has my theory, altho its surely doesnt really explain it - i think the act of being devoured and procesed (either coming out alive for soft vore or being procesed as real food as in hard stuff) has a lot to do with the death and rebirth cycle. Ofcourse, this is playing mostly on sub conciousness level, but i can imagined that death when being eaten or just the that act means the end and freedom of our body - being processed continues this death and embodies the hatred or disgust of the body. In the end, the character that has be eaten either comes out alive, reborn and washed of any flaws while the other, that find their death during the process elevate themselves from their body and flaws by being used to satisfied the needs of their peer - as any fetish, its a form of escapism. Altho i dotn think any Vorefan will second me on this, the death and rebirth cycle is embeded deeply in human psyche and Vore is just one way to act that scenario out.

I think there's truth to that.

I also think there's an aspect of ... submissiveness? service? To surrender so completely as to be devoured, and better yet, to become a part of the adored, worshiped object of desire, forever, as cells in the beloved's body. It's like loving someone so much you want to cease being yourself and just be a subset of the person you love. The ultimate self-effacement.

Not my kink (I'm more of a Dominant, myself, and I value my submissives too much to want to eat them), but I think there's beauty to the concept, from the perspective of the one eaten. It's the eaters I don't get - part of why I was so interested in your take, relating it to a kind of disconnected, un-symbolic cannibalism. It kind of feels that way to me sometimes.

I mean, I suppose in consensual soft vore, the eater is just enabling the one eaten to have the desired experience - just a D/s take on merging, which I can kind of wrap my head around. And I guess the hard vore version is partially about the same impulses to imagine "the things I could do if I was evil" that inspires murderous vampire characters and the like. I suppose there's a certain liberation there. . . but it's still definitely not my kink.

I really like the rebirth cycle aspect you describe though, especially for soft vore. I think that could make a powerful story, on a mythic symbolism sort of level.

Being Dom or Sub really depends on the person - i can only asume that subs are ones with weaker personality, still unable to find their place in the world and let others lead them, thus looking for a Dominant person. Sub can only be escapism to for the ones in power that enjoy others take power out of thir hands and lead their decissions.
Well, Dominant Vorefans hardly follow the "asumeonestraits" aspect of the canibalism, i rather think its living out our animalistic side and, if we want to go psychological, reliving the father figure, that eats their children in almoust every mythology. Also, being a devourer fastens ones positon in the food chain, making them feel more important and powerfull then their prey, so its as always, a power fantasy.
As for story, that would be an interresting thing - altho it has been rewritten in every legend of human kind so far. I would say, give Joseph Campbells "The Hero with a thousand faces" a read - great lecture and really gives an understanding how humans work :3

I'm a huge Joe Campbell fan, but most mythologists disagree with him these days. He's a great philosopher though - I still find him inspiring, especially the way he looks at the mythical significance of fiction - one of the reasons I'm not worried about telling a story that's been told before. Tales are all about being told again in the important new way that any good author has to offer. The universal themes hardly make it pointless to keep writing - they make it all the more vital and powerful.

D/s is interesting. Many submissives are very powerful, assertive people in their day-to-day lives. They run businesses, lead organizations, etc. Not all, obviously, but a surprising number. I think submissiveness is usually more about having 0 responsibility whatsoever. That's why a powerful person, used to being responsible for everything all the time, has sexual fantasies of giving up control and choice - let someone else do the hard part for a while. It's actually a saying in the kink scene that the submissive gets whatever they want, while the Dominant does all the work. *grin*

I do agree that some submissives are the way you describe - afraid to take responsibility for themselves in or out of the bedroom, and that's kinda sad, but sometimes healthy sexual kink can help such people become more assertive in other areas. I'm always wary of 24-7 D/s though. I always try to help my submissives become stronger, and I'm most attracted to submissives who start out strong. I also think the "weak" submissiveness you describe is more common in abuse situations than in consensual kink.

As for Doms. most of them come across to me as people afraid to admit their own powerlessness in the universe. They're like little dogs, yapping at the world, "grrr, I'm so big and bad!" and you just want to pat them on the head and give them a cuddle. And put them on a leash.

In the kink scene, you can always tell the true Doms by a certain quiet humility. They know their power, and they know it's all kind of silly and ephemeral, and they're just there to have a good time. I aspire to that level of confidence. I get there sometimes, but sometimes I'm still a little shih-tzu, barking at passing SUVs. *grin* It takes a pretty Zen attitude to be Dom all the time though - as mentioned above, being in charge can be a daunting responsibility. Still, I've tried being submissive, and it's not my thing. I can act the part and get in character enough to sort of enjoy it, but lack of responsibility doesn't comfort me, even if it's temporary. I don't think that makes me stronger or weaker than a genuine sexual submissive though. I just have different anxieties, and different ways of feeling safe and relaxed. Mine lead me to prefer being in charge.

I think you're pretty right on about Doms and vore, at least to an extent. It's not always a father figure, of course. There are myths of the mother-devourer too, and they're subtly different, and the predator-prey relationship excludes the parental aspect (and I think is more conducive to sexual metaphor too). Campbell was never as bad as some of his fans have been, of over-streamlining myths, to the point where they lose all subtle variety. It's a boredom-inducing trap that I discourage. The world of fiction and myth is more vibrant and varied than some would have you believe.

I'm currently a fan of the mythology theories of Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty. I don't think she's right about everything, but she seems pretty cutting-edge anyway.

BTW, I hope you don't mind how off topic this has gotten in your journal. Really interesting conversation though!

Seconding the "Above everything else, its a fandom". A very hard to define fandom that no one can agree on :V

The question is - how do you defend it then ;3 Or how do you explain it?

"Furries are people who find anthropomorphic animals attractive, either sexually, aesthetically, or conceptually".

Lots of furries like kinky things, but not just because they're furries. Most of us aren't real-life deviants or otherkin any more than non-furry fandoms whose members are convinced that they are totally married to Naruto on the astral plane.

well, being married to a waifu is escapism at its best - but yeah, furry offers lots of posibilites to live ones kinks out without poundering against morals (i mean, see how long it took people to openly talk against cubart), but still finding out the reason why anthro animals instead of anything else is the main goal ;3

Its creative and exotic but also very familiar.

Also considering how long mankind has been anthropomorphising animals in art and fiction, I have to think there is some sort of primal, instinctive thing to it too.

All of the above.

The greatest strength of the fandom is also it's largest weakness - there is not catch-all definition of what makes up a Furry.

You can be in it for the art, or for the porn, or for a spiritual reason, or because you believe you have the soul or something else, or because you have a friend in it and don't want to be left out, or because you enjoy fantasy, or because you played a game once with an anthro character, or because you thought it was fun to imagine what you would look like as an animal.

And then you get into what "degree" a person is involved. Only have a character because your friend has one, believes you have an animal soul, love porn and think this is the easiest way to get some, and so on.

We are a giant melting-pot of values and degrees. Our diversity gives us a lot of strength, but it also explains why it's so hard for us to get along sometimes, or how we can seem so fractured.

Sounds almoust like Anonymus :o One goal, hundert causes

I can see the similarity. And isn't that odd...when I think about it, both Anon and Furries were very much born from the Internet. Perhaps that's the next big step in human socialization - collectivization without unity.

I think that wont happen next 200 years - its a slow start at the moment, and so far its a sumwhat anarchy with set of rules, i know, an oxymoron, but best do describe it.

A community. A place where other people who like animal people can mingle.
For others though I can see why they see it as only a sexual thing and I can see why others see it as a lifestyle.

This is like asking "What is the anime fandom?" or "What is the fantasy/supernatural fandom?". Any of these could be described as a fetish (hentai, vampires, Alita Blake, etc.), lifestyle (cosplayers, LARPers, etc), or escapism (kinda vague description and most anything can be classified as this...).

I would say it's neither a lifestyle, fetish, or escapism. It's a fandom focused on anthropomorphic animals or creatures. This does not mean people do not use it as a lifestyle (this is often an excuse for performing inappropriately in RL, btw), fetish, or for escapism, but those do not define what the fandom is.

That one is truth - the question that still bothers me tho, is why the whole fascination with the animals? I assume it has to do with humans animalistic side and instincts, since Anthromorphic Animals and Deities followed us thru the history - i guess Jung could explain it :3

Ah, so this is what you were saying in the comment to me about why animals [didn't get the same meaning from the question as laid out this way.]

I'd say the reason animals are the focus historically is as a mirror to view ourselves.

We want to know who we are, what we are capable of, why we do what we do, and so much more. Historically the best way to try to come to some form of answers to these questions has been to look at animals [both as they are and with the ascribing of human thoughts and feelings upon them] and try to see what's what.

Animals are the closest things to ourselves without having been raised in the same situation as we were [if that makes sense,] especially when viewed from the past where different cultures wouldn't have been able to interact very well with one another.

For me, bit of a fetish, but mostly escapism. I like wolves (and Dragons) better than humans. Sign me up for genetic modding, please!

Is it a fetish, lifestyle or escapism (hence the title)? I mean, everyone had an ready answer, from escapistic fantasies (humans are boring), fetish (its so exotic) and lifestylish (i am a shark!) - but the question remains: what of these three is the fandom?

All of the above, and more. What we call "furry fandom" is an umbrella term for a whole bunch of different strands, that have as the only connection between them the presence of anthropomorphic animal characters. There are fans of cartoon characters; fans of cartoon style; people with fetish for fur, scales, feather, tails etc.; people with xenophilia who just enjoy the mix of human and non-human and the thrill of strangeness that brings; people who find the mix of human and animal attributes aesthetically interesting and pleasing; totemists, who feel a deep connection with particular animal or animal archetype; otherkin-like folks who feel they are a particular animal or animal archetype deep inside; erotic fursuiters; non-erotic fursuiters; people who like making fursuits; people who want to make elaborate fictional worlds populated by animalistic characters; people who like making stories about people, using the resonance of animal archetypes and appearances; and so on.

It's a hopelessly broad meta-category of various things, really.

Personally, my "furriness" is a mix of fetish (of the xenophilia variety, where the important thing is the mix of human and animal), aesthetic appeal and escapism (not so much that humans are boring and I want to be a hyena; rather, anthropomorphs are nifty and I like to write and think about them!).

Well, I think it's a mixture of escapism and fetish. For my part, I've always had a liking for non-human personalities. I liked AIs and robots for some time in my childhood, heck, stupid kid. For few months believed I was a mecha robot covered with flesh (like a terminator), operated by thousands of miniature men crew, and the captain was sitting behind my eyes, like on the friggin' Enterprise... Damn, I was a crazy kid.

Later on, I developed an attachment for alien characters. Larry Niven's Ringworld series introduced a breed of aliens, called "puppeteers", who had very human traits and weaknesses. And after reading all three books, I found myself searching for puppeteer porn. Still I wasn't a furry. But now looking back, I see some patterns were forming.

Next year, I read all of David Brin's Uplift series books, starting from Startide Rising (a great book, it's a must-read for all wannabe aquatic furries). Again, I experienced the same pattern of emotions - from compassion, attachment, devotion, blushing, and there I was, searching for dolphin porn. But that grossed me out. I didn't want that. I don't want things to escalate in that direction. So then, what the fuck I wanted? I was puzzled.

Finally, two years ago, I accidentally found the furry fandom. And it was everything I wanted - everything I dreamed of all these years. Is it a kind of spirituality? I don't know.

Zumindest Furry als Sexualfetisch wage ich doch etwas zu bezweifeln. Es ist in dem Aspekt bestenfalls ein "Modifikator," da Vieles davon bereits von einer anderen Gruppierung bereits beansprucht wird. Allerdings ist es viel leichter an die Furry-Versionen dieser Fetischpraktiken zu kommen, weshalb der Eindruck vorherrscht, dass nur Furries sich dieses ganze "kinky"-ge Zeugs ausgedacht hätten.
Für mich selber ist Furry der Versuch eines etwas radikaleren Perspektivwechsels zu dem auch Überlegungen gehören, wie beispielsweise sich Gebrauchsgegenstände ändern müssen, um für eine andere, nicht humanoide Spezies immer noch nutzbar zu sein. Ob es nun Sitzgelegenheiten oder gar Kleidungsstücke sind die passen, bzw. ob die Spezies zur Werkzeugverwendung, die diese Gebrauchsgegenstände erzeugt, überhaupt körperlich geeignet ist. Und dieses Gedankenspiel kann sich auch auf andere Aspekte der spezieseigenen Kultur ausdehnen, die theoretisch sogar Lösungsansätze für unsere Probleme mit sich bringen kann, da es dieser fiktionalen Spezies mitunter an unserem kulturellen Kontext und seinen spezifischen Denkblockaden und Schubladendenken fehlt.
Aber so wie ich die Sache sehe wird Furry meistens einfach nur als ein Modifikator verwendet, der auf bereits Bestehendes in unserer Gesellschaft angewandt wird. Und diese gemeinsame Nutzung dieses einen Modifikators für was auch immer ist, was das Fandom in seiner teils widersprüchlichen Heterogenität einigermaßen eint.

Fürwahr, hab des auch vermerkt im journal oben, dass es bei uns ebenfalls idioten gibt wie überall sonst - damit meine ich, dass alle ihre eigene Ziele und Gelüste verfolgen und furry einfach der Weg ist, des auszuleben. Frage bleibt weiterhin, wieso wir dafür anthromorphe tiere nehmen, anstatt menschen zu benutzen? Weil wie erklärt man einem ausenstehenden, dass ein anthromorphes tier uns darstelt?

its a hobby. escapism like video games or role playing.

None of those, it's a fandom.

It's not any of those three because it's not any of those three for everyone.

Furry is just a fandom of those interested in the anthropomorphism of animals.

Truth, but a question remains - why anthro animals? Im rather trying to find the answer for that question and avoid generalizing the whole fandom - after all, the people are different and everyone follows their own agenda and ideals. The whole idea of taking animals to represent ourselves intrigues me and thats what i want to find out ;3 Hence, the journal

Same reason as why star wars, anime, gaming, star trek, cars, whatever else there are fandoms for. That's just what we like.

Many of use use talking animals as a representative tool for ourselves [in the same way many create fan characters in other genres] but not everyone does this, as with using it as a fetish/lifestyle/whatever it cannot be applied to all as a definition of Furry. The only think that all have in common is an interest in the anthropomorphism of animals [real or imaginary.]

Just a fetish for me.

I would say escapism for me. Just the opportunity to create my own little world with a wide variety of creatures.

Escapist fun for me.

I'd say nothing defines me as a furry as I tend to shun the whole fandom and think of myself and some few friends of mine as outside of the labels of the fandom. So, I don't defend the fandom in a any way and if I still can't be a furry outside of it then I'm not a furry.