Second ^^

Since this was a contest of popularity... I will feel happy for being the second most popular... and knowing Thestory was the first... makes me feel really good since that person is very very popular.


Congratulations Thestory for winning.

Thanks everybody who voted for me.

You are mistaking "talented and hard working with watchers to show for it" as a "popufur". I'd give you some examples of the sort of people on FA you want to complain about, but I'm not a name dropper.

Conversely,  kardas has more watchers than you, and he didn't get a single vote :P Take from that what you will.

I didn't vote myself, because, being friends with Story, I didn't want to seem biased even if I did like his image best.

Again... not complaining. thestory IS popular. That's the fact I'm stating along that even if he/she or me did drew a stick figure, only would got a few less votes, because very few people here voted for quality really.

i didn't vote for popularity, personally i felt that thestory's icon was the best, this is my opinion and not everyones so no, not everyone votes on popularity. Just because thestory is super sweet with a loving personality and awesome art doesn't mean people voted on him for popularity. I think a couple people read your comment on coming off as rude. This is the internet though and things can be misinterpreted.

And on the idea of judges, it wouldn't make a difference, all they would do is tell people why they didn't pick them and make them feel bad, this site is based on democracy, that's the peoples word no matter what. And i feel personally offended that you think popularity played any part in it.

Ehhh I know. We can't read tone voices in words.

thestory's submission is great at my eyesies. But I still believe the bigger part of this was about popularity more than artwork quality. Oo

Nnnnooo.. I wouldn't consider Story popular, not in the grand scheme of things, especially if you're going to compare his level of talent with other artists on this site with 6k+ watchers.

I'm not popular, and I have almost 3k watchers.

There comes a point when one just needs to stop looking at pageviews and make art, and not blame a good winning design on being "fluffed". I think most *did* vote for quality.

I should shut up right now, because I tend to get overly verbose, but here is my in depth critique comparison of the two pieces so that others may read this and give them something to think about.

The concept:
Both yours and Story's encompassed the concept of money for art, albeit in different, broad ways.
His could be taken as money for any sort of artwork, including prints or predrawn stuff.
Yours could be taken as money for furry artists in general, as you've got a paintbrush flagpole being hoisted by furries, and on the pole is a banner with a paw (furry symbol) and a dollar sign (money symbol). It's also a very clever design, as it spoofs on a famous image too.

None of the entries explicitly state "HAY, MONEY FOR CUSTOM DRAWN ART!" without having to actually use the word "commissions" on the image, and since Story opted for no text, he he had to get more creative on how to convey the exchange of money with art. The result was much less broad than any of the rest of the icons.

The artwork:
Story's icon is very clean and well drawn, with thick lines that resize well without any details getting lost, and this is what I think made most people choose it.
Yours, as stated above, is very clever, but would have done better with more solid forms, rather than the vague, slightly blurry forms you used. I can tell generally which animals they are supposed to be, but detail starts to get lost at the 100px size.
Story's design also takes advantage of the whole canvas space. Yours is somewhat in the middle with a lot of white space around the edges, which, when resized, shrinks it even more than it needs to be. Granted, if yours had won, I would have cropped off a lot of that white space to focus it a bit more. At 60px, it is very hard to tell exactly what is going on in yours, if you didn't have the text. The paw on the flag is clear, are are some of the figures, but that the pole is a brush and the S is a dollar sign is indeterminable.

That is my completely objective, unbiased critique.

That's what I would have loved this contest to be like... with unbiased judges instead of democracy.

But once again -takes a breath- I'm not complaining, just sharing my opinion aswell.

judges would not be unbiased. I can promise you that. If democracy is how we choose our president then how is this any different? There is nothing wrong with a democratic vote, and personally i agree with mosa, if it was my choice there wouldn't be places, i dont think i would have even had a contest, i would have just asked an awesome artist to make an icon and it would rock and nobody would get to pick anything. I would be the judge which makes it unfair to the public, other people might not like the icon even though the artist who drew it was amazing and popular. the whole point of this account in the first place is to get the public's view, to let commissioners choose. and they did.

Judges are supposed to be unbiased. If they are not, is called corruption.

and the world is corrupted, if we were to pick judges it would hinder the whole reason the group was created in the first place. If it wasn't made for the public i would say that's fine, but their choice is their choice, it has nothing to do with popularity, i bet if we got actual unbiased judges somehow, somewhere in the world, then the results would still come out the same.

I'm not interested in gambling (bet?). I'm not interested on a pessimistic view of society(the world is corrupted omg).

We work with judges for some things, and with democracy for others. If you kill someone you don't depend on democracy, there will be a single person who will decide if you're guilty or not. If you run for president there will not ne a single person deciding if you win or not, it will depend on democracy.

What I just say is that for an avatar contest I'd prefer... judges instead of democracy. That's all and is really simple.

"If you kill someone you don't depend on democracy, there will be a single person who will decide if you're guilty or not."

I'll take "What is a jury?" for $500, Alex!

I didn't mean that to sound rude, I'm just amused.

I think we should stop talking about politics now. We've got our winner, and I've crit the top two, MY top two choices, so that should satisfy your desire for an unbiased judge AND a totalitarian avatar contest.

Why you try to kill my debate with that person?


You can mock my example, but why try to kill this little debate? Oh... yeah, you're totalitarian.

I'm suggesting an end to the argument because arguing politics causes nothing but trouble if people don't go into the argument AS a friendly debate, which no, it did not start as. That's how things escalate into actual fighting.

But yeah, sure, you guys have the right to argue about whatever you want as long as there's no petty insults being thrown about. When that happens, I WILL become totalitarian :P

Please dont insult my choice of the English language, i have some barriers i choose not to pass. bet is a rhetorical term. and to be honest i find your statement to be two sided, you say the voting is corrupt but dont believe that the voters are corrupt?

In the case of the murder a group of individuals from the public are chosen as a jury for the defendants sentence. I'm on jury duty myself and the reason they hold this is because they want the public to have a choice, sure they wont let a thief or a murderer walk out the door, but it's the jury's duty to say innocent or guilty and determine what the judge will use to deliver the punishment and to what degree it will be applied. It's the publics choice.

You're reading too much between lines. My english is not deep enough to hide comments between lines at all.


I just said that there are systems that work with judges, and others that work with democracy. For this little avy contest I'd loved judges, despite if I end in last place out of it, or it remains the same.

My point is it doesn't matter. This was a democratic vote, and not based on popularity.

I just said that there are systems that work with judges, and others that work with democracy. For this little avy contest I'd loved judges, despite if I end in last place out of it, or it remains the same.

Oh yes it's so clear, your shining artistic glory would have rocketed you to first place if only the contest were judged by a handful of select people and not an open vote. Let me guess, you'd be in charge of selecting the judges, right?

Even though i liked your icon alot, it was a really nice design and i could tell you put alot of work into it, i didn't logically see it being very easy to see in the smaller version. I felt like it would just blend together. It would be a neat banner, or if outlines with solid colors then possibly easy to see but there is just so much detail and with how small it would be, the detail would be under appreciated.

I agree :)

very few people here voted for quality really.

Obviously not, or my icon would have won.

Just want to touch on this again, probably because I haven't touched it enough.

But just to get my point across...

You're thinking about it the wrong way. If you're going to argue popularity vs quality, then you need to consider it this way:

If you and Story both submitted the same icon, down to the same lines, and it was a purely popularity vote, then yes, he would win based on that. Because pure numbers win.

If you and Story had the exact same amount of watchers, and submitted the icons you drew, tell me then, if he won, would it still be a popularity contest?

I disagree... Story had a great and easily legible design. He won for being a good designer. Saying he won for being popular rather than talented is kind of insulting :\


I vote up ladylyrebird as the second most well designed even if they didn't get that many votes, unfortunately. It was also easy to read and easy to understand, I think the only place it failed was the lack of something arty to go with the dollar.

Not meant to insult, just being realist.

The artist name behind each avatar was not hidden, and here were no judges...

This was a popularity contest =/ Even if thestory and me drew a stick figure we would have got only a couple less votes because of the few people who voted for quality.


And I'm not complaining... the rules were clear from the beginning. And I have the right to be happy of getting the second place ^^

=/

Either way, people voted for what they liked.
I would expect people to vote for what the liked versus what their friend's told them to vote for. Many people posted their opinions along with who they voted for.

I'm not telling you not to be happy about second place. Sorry if it came off that way. Nothing's wrong with second place.

but to belittle someone's victory is not something I can condone. Especially if it was good. Saying someone won only because they are popular is mean spirited. It suggests that they could spit on paper and sell it. An extreme example, but if Story had drawn stick figures I'd have kicked him. And I'm sure people wouldn't have voted for something with no obvious effort put into it.

There were some that did shared critique along the vote, that's very valuable... and people like that should have been the judges and leave this out of people's hands.

Just a bunch of good judges to vote only for quality... and that way leaving completly out the popularity factor ^^

thestory and me published a journal asking our watchers to vote for us, we did the best the rules allowed.

I never tried to steal credit from the winner... that person won... i got second... and I'm a happy lion :3

Righto then.

Though, TheStory actually never put up a journal asking others to vote for him. He made mention of his number but requested people to make up their own mind and vote in general to help promote the group. Said journal appears to be gone now though....

If anyone advertised him specifically it was me lol.

Maybe he/she modifyed it, or I readed it too fast.

But, oh well. xD

"Out of the peoples' hands?"
So you'd rather have a totalitarian group than a democratic one?
I can do that. I'm very good at being fascist.

The problem with choosing a handful of judges, is that you're limited in opinion. And you're limited in opinion with HUMANS who are naturally biased, form cliques, and tend to share opinions with those in their clique. And with systems like that, if the judges dislike you for any reason, you're fucked, no matter what value you're offering and how many actual people are voting for you.

Had this been just my call, there wouldn't have been any "places", just a single winner. Had it been my call to appoint people I know to help judge, it's most likely we would have shared each others opinions.

You got a fair vote in a democratic system.

this is exactly what i was saying but in more detail. democracy is much better then a handful of judges.

Yo sound like a troll with your first three lines.

No I'd not rather have a totalitarian group than a democratic one, I'd rather have a totalitarian avatar contest than a democratic one.


There are people able to give inbiased critique... I'm just sharing my opinion that would have been way better to pick 5 trusty people, than opening it up to popularity.

I hate when people accuse others of being trolls simply because they're comparing two similar concepts and use politics, especially when it's clear they've taken the time to think about what they're writing rather than going "LOL NOOB UR DUMB".

Totalitarian avatar contest: one person going "this one", even if everybody else hates it. I could have held the whole contest, then just picked Kardas's icon and have done with it. I guarantee you that you would have complained.

How would you have picked five trusty people? How would you know they were trusty? I don't know about you, but I don't think there are five people on this entire site that I'd trust explicitly not to be biased in any way.

No I'd not rather have a totalitarian group than a democratic one, I'd rather have a totalitarian avatar contest than a democratic one.

If you're not able to be a judge, because you are stating clearly that you're biased, then you just name an unbiased person to do what you can't. Is simple. 8(

Only your last point is valid, because there's the problem that you might not know any trusty person. I can give you easily 3 that will be unbiased for sure.

Actually Mosa is correct. It is impossible to be unbiased.
Because bias is based on opinion.
I can argue that Valesquez is better than Whistler but that doesn't make it true. Even if Valesquez is considered a Master while Whistler is not. I could also argue Whistler is better than Valesquez under different circumstances.

I am bised based on my background, my education, my opinion. And so is everyone else. I personally despise the work of Dali, someone else may hail him as an Abstract genius. Neither of us our necessarily wrong and without getting into the the subject of art. Both parties are bias.

Bias by definition is a predisposition. A furry is predisposed to like furry art.
A person who studied the classical period may have a predisposition to like art from that period.
To say there exists unbiased people does not hold water. If they even have favorites in their favorite gallery they are predisposed to like whatever they have there. Something in their bias made them choose those.

What makes a judge a good one?

That's the question isn't it?

...Well if we wanted as close to unbias as possible. We, as a group would need to find someone none of us knew. Preferably someone in a field that has nothing at all to do with art. In fact maybe get someone who thinks art is a waste of time and would have no idea who any artist ever is, ever.

Then because this person doesn't like art we'd have to probably pay them to give us their actual earnest opinion.


But of course generally you want a little bias.
Yup.

Why? Because we don't want a person who has no idea about anything of the subject to pick the subject.
You want someone to make an educated decision based on design and function.
To be perfectly callous, only a couple of the entries fit the profile to begin with. Only two functioned correctly on a design level, and more so creatively since two relied on preexisting elements to be created at all.

I am pro bias lol

Unbiased according to you.
I would not know them, therefore I would put them in the same category as those I don't trust to be unbiased.

Also, don't know what you mean about only one of my points being valid. My first point is quite valid. Someone disagrees with someone and uses a political example, and they're automatically labeled a troll. Those doing the labeling do not know the definition of troll and are just using it as part of their counterargument.

My second line is valid as well.

You want a totalitarian avatar contest. You specifically said this twice.

Totalitarianism: One person chooses, whether they're biased or corrupt, or not. That's it. End of the line. Nobody else gets any say. Therefore, if I were unable to be an unbiased judge, I could still choose how I wish.

1st was about this:

"Out of the peoples' hands?"
So you'd rather have a totalitarian group than a democratic one?
I can do that. I'm very good at being fascist.

You put words in my mouth. I always said prety clearly I just would have love this constest to be judge-based. I never said I want this group be totalitarian.

2nd is out of focus. you complain about human race being biased, and that same pessimistic view of the world others show... I just said I'd like judges... judges are supposed to and trusty and unbiased(less biased as possible if you want) otherwise they are just bad judges. My opinion is that I'd love this to be judge-based... that's all.



Only your last point was focused and solid, the others were from your emotions.

Re: putting words in your mouth. I didn't have to.

"I never said I want this group be totalitarian."
"No I'd not rather have a totalitarian group than a democratic one, I'd rather have a totalitarian avatar contest than a democratic one."
Same thing. The avatar contest is held by the group.

Re: Human race being biased. That's not a pessimistic view, it's a realistic, un-naive, logical view, and not at all emotional. It's something everybody should know and consider, especially dealing with... any other person.

Taking anything "out of the people's" hands is something I'm VIOLENTLY against. I like having the right to vote on things I want to vote on, and the right to do and say as I like. I don't like people making decisions for me without ever consulting me. So yes, emotional reaction, and rightly so.

Taking anything "out of the people's" hands is something I'm VIOLENTLY against. I like having the right to vote on things I want to vote on, and the right to do and say as I like. I don't like people making decisions for me without ever consulting me. So yes, emotional reaction, and rightly so.

You go girl!

Making accusations isn't helping this case. Thus far, though the word totalitarian has been thrown around, They have not been emotional and have argued the opposed.

Relying on judges or random votes is essentially the same except for the number which is lending their opinion.
To go back to the beginning, I think you have lost your affirmative, you are saying that this was a popularity contest. But all contests are. Even within a small group, What was popular within the judges circle would have won.

To continue the opposed, popularity is not something instant. Design is based on theory, making for what is popular, popular within a any given demographic -because- it is appealing.
So yes it is a popularity contest but so is everything else and deservably so. Someone does not win because they are popular they win because something in their work appealed to a majority.

If you're not able to be a judge, because you are stating clearly that you're biased, then you just name an unbiased person to do what you can't. Is simple. 8(

Mosa founded the group, dickbreath, if any one person were to call the shots it would be her! Your attitude is just heinously offensive, I couldn't imagine paying you money to draw something for me. Calling people trolls for disagreeing with you? Are you twelve years old or just a whiny little bitch with no shame? I hope I'm not the only one reading your pissy little comments, the world should know how immature you are so they can take their business to someone more professional.

By the way, people don't get watchers for no reason. When artists make things people like, the people come to like those artists. Acting hipstery and tearing down people for being "popular" doesn't make you a good artist, it makes you an unlikeable douchebag.

While true in essence, I'd advise you to tone down the name-calling, because that is also immature :P

I am an immature, reactionary douchebag. As such, I can easily spot other immature douchebags, and the immature douchebags who try to act subtle and play the pity card are the worst immature douchebags of all. My modest group of watchers know how snide I can be under the right circumstances, and the three of them who still pay attention to me love me anyway.

Not meant to insult, just being realist.

No, you're just being a sore loser and kind of a bitch. You lost, deal with it and shut up. Pretending to be subtle in your jabs at TheStory doesn't win you any points.

You know, I read your first comment and really didn't think you were an asshole, but it becomes blatantly clear as I move further down this page.

I have to agree with Leon there. Both contestants had really nice works laid out for this Commissions account. Both had great quality and designs.

I say they are an even match. Its either people who like the person or their design. Never both

This one sums up the whole community the best I think.

Thank you to everyone who voted! I'm glad I was even a contender with all the great submissions.

I also liked the fox with the dollar too, it was so charming. Definitely my favorite out of the competition. :] So shout out to ladylyrebird!

You did awesome. X3 i felt your icon was wonderful the moment i saw it. i with they made more space for the icons though because it would be cool to eventually have one that would show for all the art styles and genres. sculpting, writing, music, drawing, painting etc. X3 would be sooooo neat!

Thank you very much! I also agree. Having different avatars for different categories would be neat to see.

Maybe we should get an icon for each category and then see if chaosie could flash them together as a small icon. X3 i think that would be neat.

Perhaps we could host a number of icon contests in the future as the group grows then start switching them out. Or like you said have them loop.

It would certainly be something to think on.

i do think it would be awesome, once things calm down, to have contest for other categories icons, maybe mosa and i could make one for sculpting and such. an alternating icon would be so cool.

That wouldn't require flash, just simply an animated gif. Quite easy to do, just like making an ad banner :3

indeed. <3 which i appreciate you commenting on. X3 i think it would be a neat project to look into in the future! ^.^

Thank you, I'm glad you liked it. Congrats on winning :3

It seems I have inadvertently caused tension...

Let me say this then. If this had been a contest based on the opinions of a few trusted individuals. The outcome would in all probability have been the same. Because then it really would have nothing to do with anything except the execution of the piece, and how well it works for it's job.

Not on the opinions of many, from various backgrounds who might see merit in something a small group of ruthless designers would ignore completely.

you didn't cause it, mosa seems to be worked up too. As well as myself.

I don't think I -caused it - per se lol.
But I did bring it up XD

I suppose I am just hoping for things to remain civil since it looks like some name calling is starting to be thrown around, and though I don't mind debate, When people feel the need to start throwing insults it starts to degenerate from debate to argument as they become emotionally invested.
And emotions make people irrational and instead of arguing the affirmative of opposed they just argue :C

Don't worry, nothing bad on discussing and sharing viewpoints. If we lose control it just mean we are not grown enough x3

lol i'm so irrational it's out of this world. X3

I'm so rational I'm a vulcan ;D

Lol awesome! X3 I dunno if you will get this or not but maybe we should get daleks to judge the contest. X3

I do know what you speak of!

I haven't seen Dr. Who mahself, but friends of mine watch it :3

Also, conversation above is not soooOoooo off topic :P

Yea, this keeps it fresh and will keep me from being in a rotten mood. X3 Dr who is awesome. <3

As is Star trek <3

they both are. I watched star trek a long time ago and even had a cat names spock. X3 i love the tribbles but i dont know enough to be a trekkie. I need to rewatch it but my boyfriend is more of a star wars guy, his mom loves star treck though. X3

Holy shit woman, get yon Dr Who episodes and watch! And make Story watch too :V

BUT I GOTTA FINISH STAR TREEEEK FIRRRST

I've got one more season of Voyager to watch, then it's on to TNG because I haven't seen it yet and apparently Chaos made me watch them out of order :O

Meanwhile I really want to watch the most recent season of Dr Who, but Chaos is all Star Trekkin' right now.

I only ever saw TNG, and I'm currently watching the original (though not for months :C)
Then I shall watch the rest :D

And then just for you I shall watch Dr. Who :3

Yay! :D

There wouldn't be any contest for the daleks to judge. They'd just exterminate it :P

Exactly, and then dalek sec would put a picture of himself as the icon, and change the whole profile to "EXTERMINATE!" And possibly make a journal of all the things he will exterminate in the future.

Having read all of the comments in this journal, I first feel like I need a long shower.

Secondly, I would like to say that if  leongon had judged the contest, he most certainly would have won. But if I had been the judge, the group icon would have 10000% more monopoly money than it does now.

lol, 10k% more monopoly moneys! X3

Actually if I had remembered to vote, I would have had to pick  ladylyrebird's entry. So cute!

Congratulations to  TheStory.

The charming icon does a wonderful job at depicting the theme and purpose of this group, and is deserving of this victory. :)

Now it's time to enjoy our new icon and return to the task of supporting artists looking to supply commissions to the rest of us. <3

that's sweet of you hun. ^.^