BDSM and cubs - thoughts on two controversial types of pr0n
18 years ago
General
Anyone watching me carefully has probably noticed a few cub pics among my favorites, and you'd have to be outright ignoring me not to have noticed my fondness for bondage. Since I'm in the mood to do it, I'm just going to state my views on these topics. A lot of people don't like either of these subjects due to the nastiness that can occur when trying to translate these fantasies into real life.
I'm not going to defend either type of porn because I don't see that there is anything to defend unless you disapprove of porn in general. That's a whole other debate. Porn is not about reality - it is about erotic fantasies. I'm not going to step into the mire of debate over whether fantasies can have psychological harm other than to agree that one should be cautious about what to expose real life children to. What I do plan on talking about is the allure of BDSM and cub art i.e. what do people see in these?
First of all, you either like something or you don't. Try explaining why you like one type of icecream best. You can state things you do and don't like, but the ultimate why comes down to "I just do". If you don't like certain types of porn, there is probably nothing anyone can say to change that because these feelings run deep. How deep? Well, when I was about 8 or 9 years old, before I had any clue about sex, I vividly remember being tied up by a girl and becoming aroused even though I didn't know that's what was happening. Let me repeat - this is before the onset of adolescence, before I ever looked at any porn much less wanted to. This sort of thing is an ingrained reaction in a certain segment of the population, and it is as natural (if arguably not as wholesome) as liking redheads.
Secondly, if you ask several people what they like about any area of interest they all share, you will undoubtedly get several answers which do not perfectly match up. Everyone is different and likes different things for different reasons. The best I can do is cover some of the major trends based on my own feelings and experience talking to others.
BDSM is bondage and discipline, dominance and submission, and sadism and masochism. BDSM then is actually several related fields of interest which are not all shared by everyone who claims to be into BDSM. I myself have only mild interest in D/s play (my experience being that it is either very good or very bad) and much prefer bondage. S&M for me is something to enhance the bondage experience but holds little interest for me by itself.
Bondage and discipline focuses mainly on restricting movement and removing options. It is about one person being unable to escape the fate imposed on them by an outside force. Some people enjoy being the one in control, some enjoy giving up control. Why does this turn people on? Well, for the ones in control, control is its own allure. There is a certain heady rush about knowing you can do anything, satisfy any desire and not be stopped by anyone. Obviously this is not a good thing to translate into day to day life, but then that's what fantasy is for - it is a safe, effectively harmless channel for this desire.
On the flip side, there is also a distinctly erotic effect to being placed in peril - this is actually expressed in a very wide segment of the population as an evolved method of species perpetuation. Hollywood didn't make up the notion of people becoming much more attracted to each other after coming through something harrowing, they just abused the hell out of it.
Either way, the porn either evokes one of these fantasies in the susceptible members of the audience or reminds them of (hopefully) enjoyable things they've done/had done to them. There are other reasons to like the pr0n however - some people even like bondage for the look as much or more than the above. This is why leather, latex, and corset fetishes often tie in (no pun intended) to BDSM and why one of the hallmarks of shibari is a rope pattern that is more decorative than restrictive.
Dominance and submission is about a person being physically able to act but every action potentially having a consequence which will be enforced upon them. When it comes to RL play, some people enjoy pretending to be forced while others are happier not hiding their willingness to follow orders and some flipflop between these. Again, this relates to control but comes at it from a different angle. The subject is generally not entirely helpless but depending on whether the fantasy concerns willing or unwilling submission they may not be able to avoid whatever punishment will be imposed on them.
Even in the case of willing submission, the ultimate threat used to enforce a punishment can be the threat of not playing anymore, though in healthy relationships the dominant partner(s) will at least be considering whether they are asking too much. Again, the pr0n is all about evoking those feelings - the idea being caught in a dilema, wanting to do one thing but knowing you have been told to do something else or the idea of being the one placing someone in such a situation and watching them squirm, knowing you can make them do what you want and avoid doing things you don't want.
Also, humans are naturally hierarchical creatures, and there is a certain peace of mind that comes from knowing exactly what your place is in your social group. Even being at the absolute bottom of the social heap can hold a certain comfort. Discomfort arises from not being sure whether your privileges and responsibilities will be the same tomorrow as they are today.
"Change is bad. We fear change." - Wayne of Wayne's World
Sadism and masochism is where the meat of the controversy lies because of the overall perception that pain is bad. Wait, it isn't? Certainly some people feel that way, and it's an entirely reasonable and understandable point of view. Pain is your body's way of telling you that something bad is happening or about to happen to it.
The thing is that first, bad is a relative concept. Broken bones, damaged organs, and massive blood loss are things that are unquestionably bad and thus are things best avoided. Piercings, welts, and shallow cuts and bruises are transitory injuries which offer little or no threat to your life and leave no lasting physical effects even if marks linger. Obviously there can be lasting psychological effects, but that's another matter. The point is that a body can experience pain when the organism as a whole isn't endangered.
Secondly, and this is important, some people get off on pain. The body can only handle so much pain before it starts releasing endorphins in order to be able to keep functioning. This is again a completely natural tendency developed for survival. Interestingly enough however, there may be purely psychological aspects to the pleasure gained from masochism as well. It is well known that athletes who push themselves to the point that their muscles are burning can eventually experience what is known as a runner's high. It was at one time believed that at some point their bodies start dumping endorphins into the bloodstream to overwhelm the painful buildup of lactic acid in the muscles, but this may be a purely psychological reaction to overcoming a challenge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorp.....unner.27s_high
If this is true, it could easily explain why a masochist would feel pleasure after being subjected not only to physical pain but humiliation (i.e. psychological pain) as well. The achievement of weathering such a trial and coming out the other side could be producing a purely psychological pleasure that nonetheless expresses itself as arousal.
Okay, what about sadists? Aren't they all bastards? No. Some are, sure. Anytime someone does something against another's will, they risk stepping over the line. I say risk because when a parent or teacher disciplines a child, they are doing something against the child's will in order to teach them about right and wrong and what is safe or unsafe. Police often have to do things against the will of criminals, and doctors may have to get orderlies to assist in restraining a patient so they can do what is necessary to help them. There is a reason why these themes show up in so much BDSM porn.
Okay, but isn't WANTING to inflict pain on someone a bit messed up? Perhaps, but everyone is at least a little messed up in some way. Some people are inclined towards laziness, some towards greed, some have no natural respect for property, some have no respect for privacy or boundries. The important part is how you deal with your inclinations, and someone that goes out of their way to find someone that wants to be hurt is channeling those desires in the most healthy way they can physically express. Someone that satisfies those desires with arguably disturbing art and paws off afterwards is certainly not hurting anyone.
Still, the whole non-consentual thing - isn't that kinda ick even as a fantasy? For some people, sure. Not everyone who's into BDSM likes the idea of non-con as a fantasy. To understand what anyone (aside from a sociopath) could see in it, you have to understand that there is a very deliberate separation between fantasy and reality. In reality, there must always be a line drawn beyond which one must not pass or else something happens that you will regret. A sub can only suffer so much, can only be left tied and helpless for so long, can only be pushed so far before something gives. Fantasy allows a submissive to be pushed further than they would dare in real life, can leave someone locked in bondage without risk of blood pooling and muscles atrophying, can inflict grievous amounts of punishment on someone and leave them still able to function. In the mind of the audience, both masters and slaves can take part in things that would be insane to try for real, and that is a rush for those with that sort of inclination.
For me personally, the S&M aspects of a bondage picture, story, or scene are there to give the bondage more substance by creating a distinct reason to desire freedom. It underscores the helplessness of the victim and makes the situation that much more intense. It isn't the only way to achieve that, but it is a very effective method for me. Other people that like S&M have their own reasons which may or may not relate to mine.
Whew! I think that covers the major points of that. On to cubs!
So what's wrong with adults that has you looking at kids? Nothing necessarily. Some people like both adults and kids, some just like kids. This sort of thing partly falls under the same banner as 'Why animalistic humanoids?', 'Why a different race?', and 'Why the same sex?' Some people simply have sex drives that are wired to seek out something other than the norm. Many people find a distinct allure in that which is exotic, and for some there is a certain draw towards the forbidden or unattainable. Children as sexual objects are both exotic and forbidden and since there are no furries yet, cubs are utterly unattainable. Of course, this means that fantasies about cubs are also quite safe since there is no chance of them being enacted in a literal way.
Okay, so let's delve into the possible root causes for the erotic appeal of cubs. First and foremost, cubs are cute. There is a nearly ubiquitous aesthetic appeal to the overall form and behavior of a young child. This too is an adaptation designed to ensure species survival since it makes people more likely to want to protect children. Obviously it isn't 100% effective or there would be no child abuse. The thing is that cuteness is a physical quality not limited to youth. People often refer to cute guys and gals meaning full adults that they find attractive for whatever reason. For some the cub's cuteness, all those traits that make you want to hug them, becomes similarly tangled up in the feelings of eroticism which are also common to such contact.
The next factor is innocence. There is something many find appealing and endearing about innocence. It is a state we all once shared and many of us long to be that way again. The Victorian era actually held the image of a nude child to be the very essence of innocence in its purist form, and it is because of this that Lewis Carroll's hobby of photgraphing nude girls was in later years interpretted as pedophilia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_.....arroll_Myth.22
That said, such interests obviously can tie into pedophilia or the misunderstanding never would have occurred. For some people then, cub art is a way to touch this innocence in a harmless fashion even when eroticism is mixed in. Some want to get closer to the innocence and try to somehow preserve it while bringing it into the adult world the way they wish had happened with them. Others admittedly want to defile that innocence for much the same reason that misery loves company.
"I felt like destroying something beautiful." - Narrator, Fight Club
Still others may be attracted to the fantasy of a cub that is already less innocent than they ought to be. Again, this could be a lure of the exotic and forbidden but with less guilt when the cub is willing.
Incest is something some people really get into. Why? Well, members of your own family are known quantities. They know you and you know them, and intimacy is already present - this is just taking intimacy further. It is of course frowned on by society, so there is also a distinct air of the forbidden about it. That gets even more intense and adds a hint of the exotic when one or more parties involved is a child. In consensual situations, the feelings of trust are built upon to forge a deeper relationship than would normally exist. Non-consensual relationships rely on the inherent power of the elder parent or sibling, or in a reversal that really arouses some, threats by the child of revealing some secret the elder individual(s) don't want to get out. This also leads into the next concept.
Vulnerability is something cubs have in spades. They are smaller, weaker, and have less body mass than adults meaning that they have next to no chance of coming out on top in a physical confrontation with an adult. Furthermore society places all the power strictly in the hands of adults meaning that cubs share a lot in common with legally sanctioned slaves. The major difference is that since cubs go to school, they have more oversight than slaves to ensure that they are not being abused. Still, if any of the above reasons for liking cubs strikes home and someone also likes BDSM, cubs are a very good fit for fantasies. Likewise, for those that like role reversal, the cub as a dominant is very hard to beat, especially the idea of a small prey species cub (mice are almost iconic in this respect) dominating a large, adult preditor (often a feline to pair with the mouse).
I'll admit to falling under the category of liking cub victims in BDSM fantasies because my own submissive leanings make such fantasies particularly intense. Were there a real cub around, or for that matter if I were a cub, I would not want to see any such things happen for real. (Well, I might go find a girl cub to tie me up, but that's at least marginally innocent.) I'm not much of a masochist - just someone that likes bondage and uses the illusion of dire threats to make my experience more erotically potent. I don't desire to see real children hurt in any way. Like most who like cub art, I like kids as they are - cute, happy, and innocent - and will take pains to protect that state. This is the carefully maintained difference between the fantasies and reality.
Alright, I suppose that last bit came out a tad defensive, but when dealing with a subject that most people's minds want to instinctively recoil from, it's hard to know how much to stress a point. Besides, I've been writing for a few hours now and am a little bit out of it. Whew! I think it was worth it though. I wonder if anyone else has thoughts on this. Brief thoughts are fine - I don't expect anyone to answer in anything close to this kind of detail!
I'm not going to defend either type of porn because I don't see that there is anything to defend unless you disapprove of porn in general. That's a whole other debate. Porn is not about reality - it is about erotic fantasies. I'm not going to step into the mire of debate over whether fantasies can have psychological harm other than to agree that one should be cautious about what to expose real life children to. What I do plan on talking about is the allure of BDSM and cub art i.e. what do people see in these?
First of all, you either like something or you don't. Try explaining why you like one type of icecream best. You can state things you do and don't like, but the ultimate why comes down to "I just do". If you don't like certain types of porn, there is probably nothing anyone can say to change that because these feelings run deep. How deep? Well, when I was about 8 or 9 years old, before I had any clue about sex, I vividly remember being tied up by a girl and becoming aroused even though I didn't know that's what was happening. Let me repeat - this is before the onset of adolescence, before I ever looked at any porn much less wanted to. This sort of thing is an ingrained reaction in a certain segment of the population, and it is as natural (if arguably not as wholesome) as liking redheads.
Secondly, if you ask several people what they like about any area of interest they all share, you will undoubtedly get several answers which do not perfectly match up. Everyone is different and likes different things for different reasons. The best I can do is cover some of the major trends based on my own feelings and experience talking to others.
BDSM is bondage and discipline, dominance and submission, and sadism and masochism. BDSM then is actually several related fields of interest which are not all shared by everyone who claims to be into BDSM. I myself have only mild interest in D/s play (my experience being that it is either very good or very bad) and much prefer bondage. S&M for me is something to enhance the bondage experience but holds little interest for me by itself.
Bondage and discipline focuses mainly on restricting movement and removing options. It is about one person being unable to escape the fate imposed on them by an outside force. Some people enjoy being the one in control, some enjoy giving up control. Why does this turn people on? Well, for the ones in control, control is its own allure. There is a certain heady rush about knowing you can do anything, satisfy any desire and not be stopped by anyone. Obviously this is not a good thing to translate into day to day life, but then that's what fantasy is for - it is a safe, effectively harmless channel for this desire.
On the flip side, there is also a distinctly erotic effect to being placed in peril - this is actually expressed in a very wide segment of the population as an evolved method of species perpetuation. Hollywood didn't make up the notion of people becoming much more attracted to each other after coming through something harrowing, they just abused the hell out of it.
Either way, the porn either evokes one of these fantasies in the susceptible members of the audience or reminds them of (hopefully) enjoyable things they've done/had done to them. There are other reasons to like the pr0n however - some people even like bondage for the look as much or more than the above. This is why leather, latex, and corset fetishes often tie in (no pun intended) to BDSM and why one of the hallmarks of shibari is a rope pattern that is more decorative than restrictive.
Dominance and submission is about a person being physically able to act but every action potentially having a consequence which will be enforced upon them. When it comes to RL play, some people enjoy pretending to be forced while others are happier not hiding their willingness to follow orders and some flipflop between these. Again, this relates to control but comes at it from a different angle. The subject is generally not entirely helpless but depending on whether the fantasy concerns willing or unwilling submission they may not be able to avoid whatever punishment will be imposed on them.
Even in the case of willing submission, the ultimate threat used to enforce a punishment can be the threat of not playing anymore, though in healthy relationships the dominant partner(s) will at least be considering whether they are asking too much. Again, the pr0n is all about evoking those feelings - the idea being caught in a dilema, wanting to do one thing but knowing you have been told to do something else or the idea of being the one placing someone in such a situation and watching them squirm, knowing you can make them do what you want and avoid doing things you don't want.
Also, humans are naturally hierarchical creatures, and there is a certain peace of mind that comes from knowing exactly what your place is in your social group. Even being at the absolute bottom of the social heap can hold a certain comfort. Discomfort arises from not being sure whether your privileges and responsibilities will be the same tomorrow as they are today.
"Change is bad. We fear change." - Wayne of Wayne's World
Sadism and masochism is where the meat of the controversy lies because of the overall perception that pain is bad. Wait, it isn't? Certainly some people feel that way, and it's an entirely reasonable and understandable point of view. Pain is your body's way of telling you that something bad is happening or about to happen to it.
The thing is that first, bad is a relative concept. Broken bones, damaged organs, and massive blood loss are things that are unquestionably bad and thus are things best avoided. Piercings, welts, and shallow cuts and bruises are transitory injuries which offer little or no threat to your life and leave no lasting physical effects even if marks linger. Obviously there can be lasting psychological effects, but that's another matter. The point is that a body can experience pain when the organism as a whole isn't endangered.
Secondly, and this is important, some people get off on pain. The body can only handle so much pain before it starts releasing endorphins in order to be able to keep functioning. This is again a completely natural tendency developed for survival. Interestingly enough however, there may be purely psychological aspects to the pleasure gained from masochism as well. It is well known that athletes who push themselves to the point that their muscles are burning can eventually experience what is known as a runner's high. It was at one time believed that at some point their bodies start dumping endorphins into the bloodstream to overwhelm the painful buildup of lactic acid in the muscles, but this may be a purely psychological reaction to overcoming a challenge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorp.....unner.27s_high
If this is true, it could easily explain why a masochist would feel pleasure after being subjected not only to physical pain but humiliation (i.e. psychological pain) as well. The achievement of weathering such a trial and coming out the other side could be producing a purely psychological pleasure that nonetheless expresses itself as arousal.
Okay, what about sadists? Aren't they all bastards? No. Some are, sure. Anytime someone does something against another's will, they risk stepping over the line. I say risk because when a parent or teacher disciplines a child, they are doing something against the child's will in order to teach them about right and wrong and what is safe or unsafe. Police often have to do things against the will of criminals, and doctors may have to get orderlies to assist in restraining a patient so they can do what is necessary to help them. There is a reason why these themes show up in so much BDSM porn.
Okay, but isn't WANTING to inflict pain on someone a bit messed up? Perhaps, but everyone is at least a little messed up in some way. Some people are inclined towards laziness, some towards greed, some have no natural respect for property, some have no respect for privacy or boundries. The important part is how you deal with your inclinations, and someone that goes out of their way to find someone that wants to be hurt is channeling those desires in the most healthy way they can physically express. Someone that satisfies those desires with arguably disturbing art and paws off afterwards is certainly not hurting anyone.
Still, the whole non-consentual thing - isn't that kinda ick even as a fantasy? For some people, sure. Not everyone who's into BDSM likes the idea of non-con as a fantasy. To understand what anyone (aside from a sociopath) could see in it, you have to understand that there is a very deliberate separation between fantasy and reality. In reality, there must always be a line drawn beyond which one must not pass or else something happens that you will regret. A sub can only suffer so much, can only be left tied and helpless for so long, can only be pushed so far before something gives. Fantasy allows a submissive to be pushed further than they would dare in real life, can leave someone locked in bondage without risk of blood pooling and muscles atrophying, can inflict grievous amounts of punishment on someone and leave them still able to function. In the mind of the audience, both masters and slaves can take part in things that would be insane to try for real, and that is a rush for those with that sort of inclination.
For me personally, the S&M aspects of a bondage picture, story, or scene are there to give the bondage more substance by creating a distinct reason to desire freedom. It underscores the helplessness of the victim and makes the situation that much more intense. It isn't the only way to achieve that, but it is a very effective method for me. Other people that like S&M have their own reasons which may or may not relate to mine.
Whew! I think that covers the major points of that. On to cubs!
So what's wrong with adults that has you looking at kids? Nothing necessarily. Some people like both adults and kids, some just like kids. This sort of thing partly falls under the same banner as 'Why animalistic humanoids?', 'Why a different race?', and 'Why the same sex?' Some people simply have sex drives that are wired to seek out something other than the norm. Many people find a distinct allure in that which is exotic, and for some there is a certain draw towards the forbidden or unattainable. Children as sexual objects are both exotic and forbidden and since there are no furries yet, cubs are utterly unattainable. Of course, this means that fantasies about cubs are also quite safe since there is no chance of them being enacted in a literal way.
Okay, so let's delve into the possible root causes for the erotic appeal of cubs. First and foremost, cubs are cute. There is a nearly ubiquitous aesthetic appeal to the overall form and behavior of a young child. This too is an adaptation designed to ensure species survival since it makes people more likely to want to protect children. Obviously it isn't 100% effective or there would be no child abuse. The thing is that cuteness is a physical quality not limited to youth. People often refer to cute guys and gals meaning full adults that they find attractive for whatever reason. For some the cub's cuteness, all those traits that make you want to hug them, becomes similarly tangled up in the feelings of eroticism which are also common to such contact.
The next factor is innocence. There is something many find appealing and endearing about innocence. It is a state we all once shared and many of us long to be that way again. The Victorian era actually held the image of a nude child to be the very essence of innocence in its purist form, and it is because of this that Lewis Carroll's hobby of photgraphing nude girls was in later years interpretted as pedophilia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_.....arroll_Myth.22
That said, such interests obviously can tie into pedophilia or the misunderstanding never would have occurred. For some people then, cub art is a way to touch this innocence in a harmless fashion even when eroticism is mixed in. Some want to get closer to the innocence and try to somehow preserve it while bringing it into the adult world the way they wish had happened with them. Others admittedly want to defile that innocence for much the same reason that misery loves company.
"I felt like destroying something beautiful." - Narrator, Fight Club
Still others may be attracted to the fantasy of a cub that is already less innocent than they ought to be. Again, this could be a lure of the exotic and forbidden but with less guilt when the cub is willing.
Incest is something some people really get into. Why? Well, members of your own family are known quantities. They know you and you know them, and intimacy is already present - this is just taking intimacy further. It is of course frowned on by society, so there is also a distinct air of the forbidden about it. That gets even more intense and adds a hint of the exotic when one or more parties involved is a child. In consensual situations, the feelings of trust are built upon to forge a deeper relationship than would normally exist. Non-consensual relationships rely on the inherent power of the elder parent or sibling, or in a reversal that really arouses some, threats by the child of revealing some secret the elder individual(s) don't want to get out. This also leads into the next concept.
Vulnerability is something cubs have in spades. They are smaller, weaker, and have less body mass than adults meaning that they have next to no chance of coming out on top in a physical confrontation with an adult. Furthermore society places all the power strictly in the hands of adults meaning that cubs share a lot in common with legally sanctioned slaves. The major difference is that since cubs go to school, they have more oversight than slaves to ensure that they are not being abused. Still, if any of the above reasons for liking cubs strikes home and someone also likes BDSM, cubs are a very good fit for fantasies. Likewise, for those that like role reversal, the cub as a dominant is very hard to beat, especially the idea of a small prey species cub (mice are almost iconic in this respect) dominating a large, adult preditor (often a feline to pair with the mouse).
I'll admit to falling under the category of liking cub victims in BDSM fantasies because my own submissive leanings make such fantasies particularly intense. Were there a real cub around, or for that matter if I were a cub, I would not want to see any such things happen for real. (Well, I might go find a girl cub to tie me up, but that's at least marginally innocent.) I'm not much of a masochist - just someone that likes bondage and uses the illusion of dire threats to make my experience more erotically potent. I don't desire to see real children hurt in any way. Like most who like cub art, I like kids as they are - cute, happy, and innocent - and will take pains to protect that state. This is the carefully maintained difference between the fantasies and reality.
Alright, I suppose that last bit came out a tad defensive, but when dealing with a subject that most people's minds want to instinctively recoil from, it's hard to know how much to stress a point. Besides, I've been writing for a few hours now and am a little bit out of it. Whew! I think it was worth it though. I wonder if anyone else has thoughts on this. Brief thoughts are fine - I don't expect anyone to answer in anything close to this kind of detail!
FA+

Very well said. And very thorough. I don't know what else to say. I could spend all day trying to decide what to write here, sadly. So I can't.
But, to imagine that non-consentual can be considered a no-no in general when it comes to art... those artists that refrain from it... To me, without non-con there is practically nothing.
(^.^)
As for incest.
There is a innate biological, psychological mechanism called incest avoidance (presumably because of natural selection which discourages inbreeding by a heightened chance of birth/genetic defects in children) which blocks erotic feelings for people who you spent your first years of life with, this works especially if you spend a lot of time with those people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest.....cest_avoidance
This mechanism gets overthrown in some cases http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneti.....ual_attraction
Nice Wikipedia articles! I knew the basics of this but since incest isn't a major kink for me, I hadn't done the research to comment intelligently on the subject.
Thanks for the added info!