FA+
Shop
Unwatching artists for "Livestream" submissions
13 years ago
Just a quick note about my ranting on twitter and prior journals.
Yes, I have been unwatching artists for posting ads as image submissions. I've stated this before, mostly on twitter, but also on other venues. Today I got into a long discussion on twitter with Danza about it.
Bottom line? I don't watch artists so they can spam me with their paysites, or lots of censored images. I don't watch them so they can tell me every five fucking minutes they are streaming art. I also don't watch artists so that they can tell me they can't pay this months bills and how much I should donate to help them stay afloat.
I stopped paying for subscription at deviantart, for the same reason, they were shoving ads down my throat after i paid them to REMOVE ALL ADS, as their subscription stated. I challenged them on still having Deviantart ads on paid accounts, they told me they won't remove them, so I said FUCK YOU and pulled my subscription. Just doing the same here. You spam me and I remove my subscription to you. Hell I don't even use DA much anymore at all.
Why did I correlate DA to FA? Honestly wasn't, that's just what it looks like. I was stating my distaste for advertising and spam. I never said I paid for FA, or a subscription on FA. If I'll drop a site I'm paying for , for advertising and spam, why the hell wouldn't I if it was supposed to be free?
Why the hell do I watch artists then? So I can see the actual "art" they upload on this FREE Gallery site. Oh right, I'm immature and a huge asshole because I expect to use this site as it was advertised? Alright, I'm game.
What's my beef? Simple, when I click on "107S" I shouldn't see 15 icons all saying "Streaming", I shouldn't see any. I tend to nuke journals now days because those are already filled with "Streaming", "I'm poor", "I can't pay my bills this month", "Commission status: I'm behind but it's not my fault version 213", etc. I opted OUT of reading who's streaming and when. So artists have figured out over time that if they post the announcement as a NEW submission to the FA system, we can't opt out of it and are forced to see the image via "browse" or through watching. Ok, abuse the system, Staff won't stop you, so I have to fix the issue myself.
I find it rather deplorable that artists would do this, but FA seems to be allowing it. I know I've asked for a policy change, I've asked multiple times for a policy change over the last "almost 2 years." Getting told it's coming still.
I don't see anything changing by asking the artists to stop. I don't see them stopping. The only way I see this getting fixed is to fix it myself. I will be unwatching them. I'm not asking anyone else to do the same, but I am mentioning the option exists.
I'm not just unwatching, I'm keeping a list of all the artists I unwatch. 1 simple reason, if the site fixes the issue and artist stop posting streaming submissions, then I'll gladly re-watch them. I need the list to cross check who. No I won't share the list, I'm not driving traffic their way, that's self defeating.
I've asked Sofurry and FA to add a system so artists who want to advertise can, and those who want to opt in for those ads, can receive them. So far, neither site has done anything I can see, to either stop the submissions or give a detourant to those who want to advertise. I blame FA itself for lacking the functionality that artists and watchers each need to use the site to it's potential. I feel the same about Sofurry, but I'm honestly seeing progress on that site every day, so I have hopes this issue with be a trivial one and resolved over there very soon.
I'm not hating on the artists, if there's any hate involved it's directed at a poorly coded site and those that let it stay that way. I'm sad we are forced to deal with such pains, because those able don't have it fixed (if you are indeed even working to fix it). Again, if I didn't have to fix it myself, and if the community as a majority could let this site go and flock somewhere else I'd be there too and doing less bitching.
I've got more to say, but not really feeling like saying it at the moment.
Yes, I have been unwatching artists for posting ads as image submissions. I've stated this before, mostly on twitter, but also on other venues. Today I got into a long discussion on twitter with Danza about it.
Bottom line? I don't watch artists so they can spam me with their paysites, or lots of censored images. I don't watch them so they can tell me every five fucking minutes they are streaming art. I also don't watch artists so that they can tell me they can't pay this months bills and how much I should donate to help them stay afloat.
I stopped paying for subscription at deviantart, for the same reason, they were shoving ads down my throat after i paid them to REMOVE ALL ADS, as their subscription stated. I challenged them on still having Deviantart ads on paid accounts, they told me they won't remove them, so I said FUCK YOU and pulled my subscription. Just doing the same here. You spam me and I remove my subscription to you. Hell I don't even use DA much anymore at all.
Why did I correlate DA to FA? Honestly wasn't, that's just what it looks like. I was stating my distaste for advertising and spam. I never said I paid for FA, or a subscription on FA. If I'll drop a site I'm paying for , for advertising and spam, why the hell wouldn't I if it was supposed to be free?
Why the hell do I watch artists then? So I can see the actual "art" they upload on this FREE Gallery site. Oh right, I'm immature and a huge asshole because I expect to use this site as it was advertised? Alright, I'm game.
What's my beef? Simple, when I click on "107S" I shouldn't see 15 icons all saying "Streaming", I shouldn't see any. I tend to nuke journals now days because those are already filled with "Streaming", "I'm poor", "I can't pay my bills this month", "Commission status: I'm behind but it's not my fault version 213", etc. I opted OUT of reading who's streaming and when. So artists have figured out over time that if they post the announcement as a NEW submission to the FA system, we can't opt out of it and are forced to see the image via "browse" or through watching. Ok, abuse the system, Staff won't stop you, so I have to fix the issue myself.
I find it rather deplorable that artists would do this, but FA seems to be allowing it. I know I've asked for a policy change, I've asked multiple times for a policy change over the last "almost 2 years." Getting told it's coming still.
I don't see anything changing by asking the artists to stop. I don't see them stopping. The only way I see this getting fixed is to fix it myself. I will be unwatching them. I'm not asking anyone else to do the same, but I am mentioning the option exists.
I'm not just unwatching, I'm keeping a list of all the artists I unwatch. 1 simple reason, if the site fixes the issue and artist stop posting streaming submissions, then I'll gladly re-watch them. I need the list to cross check who. No I won't share the list, I'm not driving traffic their way, that's self defeating.
I've asked Sofurry and FA to add a system so artists who want to advertise can, and those who want to opt in for those ads, can receive them. So far, neither site has done anything I can see, to either stop the submissions or give a detourant to those who want to advertise. I blame FA itself for lacking the functionality that artists and watchers each need to use the site to it's potential. I feel the same about Sofurry, but I'm honestly seeing progress on that site every day, so I have hopes this issue with be a trivial one and resolved over there very soon.
I'm not hating on the artists, if there's any hate involved it's directed at a poorly coded site and those that let it stay that way. I'm sad we are forced to deal with such pains, because those able don't have it fixed (if you are indeed even working to fix it). Again, if I didn't have to fix it myself, and if the community as a majority could let this site go and flock somewhere else I'd be there too and doing less bitching.
I've got more to say, but not really feeling like saying it at the moment.
that's whack, jack~
Like, if you're planning on streaming more than once, work out a schedule or something and post that in the submission description so people know what times they can expect to be able to tune in and see you working. Idk...
[General "you," obviously, I don't mean you, you. :P]
This is a job for some of us and submitting something that advertises a sale, a stream session, etc. is the easiest and quickest way to let interested parties know. Very few people read or notice journals and having a thumbnail in their inbox re-stating what's said in a journal has gotten me a ton of business in the past that I wouldn't normally have gotten.
Obviously you can do whatever you want and I'm sorry it bothers you so much. I know you said you don't blame the artists, but you're still removing some of your support for them as a consequence.
That said, I like that Nabyn actually has a stream notification system. It'd be nice to see something like that implemented here. But like you said, it's a free site. No one pays the coders or the admins. You're not paying the artists not to see their ads. The artists are doing everything they can to make some money. I'm sure it would be a lot different if we were salaried or got a regular paycheck, but we don't. And unfortunately, many of the members of this fandom have a very skewed view of what art -should- cost, which forces many to lower their prices to a point that they're no longer even making minimum wage, let alone a decent living, just to get a few commissions.
Again, not blaming you. I get how it could be frustrating, especially watching as many folks as you do. But considering the capabilities of the site, the circumstances most artists find themselves in and how mind blowingly easy it is to scroll past offending submission thumbnails, I find it hard to sympathize with your position.
Just my $.02.
I dream of a streaming filter, lol...
Sorry it got so bad that you've had to resort to such things, but you are quite right.
You'd think more artists would realize this.
Also, with the censors, I think I know a few artists you're talking about, and I agree that it's annoying, especially since they purposefully use misleading thumbnails. This is the only instance where having gallery and favorite pages ignore custom thumbnails is actually a good thing; you get to see what you're getting before you click.
I hadn't thought of it, I'm tempted now, but so disorganized/apathetic I'd probably forget to re-watch, etc, kudos to you for your proactivity.
But a lot of what you tend to talk about in your journals are just ..well in my experience anyway.... simple customer complaints that are generally brushed aside and will get worked on eventually and a classic example of buyer beware, in reference of course to the behavior of some artists who accept your money and take several months to complete it while doing other projects, etc. I suppose if it were a ticketing system with severity levels 1-5, 1 being critical and 5 being the backburner... the complaint about the submission postings for streams registers 5 with admins. Rightfully so given this is merely a free website with no sort of premium features. Though, your point on DA is curious. When I did have a subscription I didn't get any advertisements. Might have to check into that one myself and see if they've taken a more 'corporate' mindset on their services.
Anyway, my 2:30am ranting is over. I wish you all the best. Take care now.
I did not make a threat. I don't threaten. Threatening is pointless.
I made this journal to explain what I'm doing and why, after having made suggestion through the appropriate channels multiple times and seeing absolutely nothing done about it, as well as having several discussions on twitter with other people and artists. Twitter doesn't really allow for smooth discussion with the 140char cap, this journal, does. I'm not asking anyone to agree nor disagree with me.
I pointed out my issue, what I've done to resolve it, and since my requests have gone unanswered I stated what I personally am doing to rectify the situation.
I really don't give two shits if an artist cares if I unwatch them or not. That wasn't the point. It's not about watches. It's about FILTERING out the spam.
Off topic, but on some of the points you attempt to discuss, I've already contemplated halting all commissions here. I would disagree that it'd be higher costs though to go to fully professional artists. Some people here think they are professional and attempt to charge as such, but after trying them out, I can assure you, they are not. Will I stop all commissions? No. I've had many pleasant dealings as well. I only have to get vocal with the bad ones. It's why I'm thinking of going ahead and posting "report cards" on art as I submit it.
Also to your comment about furry porn existing outside this venue? LOL you couldn't be more wrong. You'll find alot of the professional artists, WILL draw it for the right price. Some don't even charge more, they just modify their style slightly so it's not as recognizable. You'll find that even here on FA, you have a few people on staff with Disney, Warner Brothers, Pixar, etc, but pretend to not be, so they can get their outlet. I have to say of all my commissioning experience, those who hold a real job, and do this on the side, are the most pleasurable to do business with. They seem to understand what commitment, follow through, and business ethics are. But this is another topic for another time, and will likely wind up on my tumblr.
As to the DA issue, they removed "paid advertising" but anything relating to selling of DA memberships, DA shirts, DA Cups, DA events, still had banners, still plugged up my announcements, and they even sent me email about crap they were selling. I wanted to opt out of that as well, they said no, so I pulled the plug. Ultimately it was false advertising, I've contemplated filing official complaints, but that would be too time consuming and I dont' like dealing with lawyers if I don't need too.
I'd much rather have a box on the page somewhere showing which artists have said they're streaming, and when. Would be easier and less annoying. We'd probably see such a feature in... a few years earliest :P
Facebook
Tumblr
Livejournal
Offer their own mailing list
Simply post their stream information in their profile info and edit it to "Streaming now" "not streaming" as they stream/stop.
Course I'd rather the site itself create a separate venue for it, so people who want to see it can, and those of us who don't, won't. Something you'd check box on your "watches" that says "Latest Submissions", "Latest Journals", "Latest Ads", etc. I would love to uncheck journals on quite a few people, just not an option.
I actually -do- like to watch streams, from time to time and like the notice. It doesn't cause me any heartache or trouble. It doesn't gum up my watchlists, and I know better than to +fave the requests. If 6-7 posts out of 100 bother you, then I'm not sure what to say. Seems a bit like throwing the baby out with the bathwater to me.
I didn't say I wanted the journals banned. I want my "IMAGE SUBMISSIONS" feed to stop getting cluttered with ALL FORMS OF advertising. Predominantly "Live streaming" spam.
I have no problem nuking journals. Images, on the other hand..... that's a bit much. That's the WHOLE point of the site, for artist and watcher alike. It should be kept clean of the crap that should be filtered to the journals. As many have said before, the journals are where the bullshit goes. All the whines, bitches, complaints, oh woe is me's, begging, advertising, status updates, etc. What's most of the AUP and TOS govern on FA? Image submissions.
I made suggestions to forum. I asked for another feed be created so artists can do their advertising and give us who don't want it the option to opt in/out. I'm not about telling artists they can't advertise, I want them to make their money. But those recommendations have either hit deaf ears, or have been put so far down the "we'll eventually get that coded" list it'll take years.
So I'm fixing the problem myself and letting people know why. Am I really such a bad person? I'm not trying to censor your internet like your parliament, your congressman, you dictators, etc. I'm merely asking for something to be changed around a bit so "WE" have an OPTION.
But if it comes to what's going on, on FA I don't really have any idea. Not really bothered by it, well, considering that I don't watch to many artists, it doesn't bother me that much...Yet.
One thing I do dislike is gaming streams. It's one thing to stream art, it's another to stream art to beg for commissions, and quite another to stream no art at all, just playing a game.
Anyhow, see above comment reply -- Firefox add-on in development. :)
As to gaming streaming, I've reported several people for doing it. FA however has decided to ignore that issue.
You can post art at most of those places, too, just like you can here. But still FA is preferred. Why? I guess 'cause it's art-focused, and furry-focused. Anyhow, the main reason I follow artists here and not all those other places is that I don't have time to check them all. ;) I like one-stop shopping. Plus, when the stream is furry art related, it's hard to say that posting information about it is against the purpose of the site. Thoughts?
Though I believe people just need to find a limit of how many "streaming" posts they can make.
Seriously, they should know their schedule at least one week ahead.
You also won't find me nabbing "Free" art requests, I leave that to everyone else, I'm more than happy to pay for my commissions.
about FA , cant do much personaly i dont like streams or paid furry porn sites
reason? pretty much most art is comissioned and it been working perfectly , artist been drawing comics for dotations(know 1 artist who made 2.4k on comic he worked for just 2 weeks , online comic and it was all dotations) , there will be alweys nice ways to make profit and bad
IF YOU POST TIME SENSITIVE JOURNALS, TAKE THEM DOWN (DELETE) AFTER THE OPPORTUNITY IS GONE PLEASE - at least it auto-checks itself for deletion that way.
But yes, there should be a separate temporary notice board you can opt never to receive from people if you don't care. And honestly an IM should be good enough for that, if not twitter, facebook, or any of these other 411 contact possibilities FA allows you to list for yourself already. Sheesh, I honestly thought twitter was MADE for spur-of-the-moment notifications!
But yeah, amen scaly bro.
Pity is, we never have much to say to each other even if we cleaned up all the spam in our lives. Which is a shame, because you're an awesome scaly. Despite you thinking nope, you're not.
Makes totes sense, lets go through a third party to achieve what we want despite the two being related.
"I'm tired of people in the nintendo messenger boards saying they're playing online, even though the Wii itself doesn't tell you. They should post in a general gaming board instead!"
I have nothing personal against you, but really?
In fact, I do believe you'll note, if you actually read what I wrote, I said I'm taking it upon myself to fix an issue I see, instead of expecting everyone to cater to my whim. You know, after attempting to bring the problem to the attention of the site administration, and seeing how utterly useless that was. I'm not going to the artists and saying, "OMG DON"T DO THAT!" I'm merely removing the issue from my feed on my own. I know other people who have issue with this, and they are free to "choose" to use my method or think of their own! WOW what a concept right?
I didn't bitch. I mentioned an issue, then give possible solutions, though I'll admit I can come across harshly. You got some better solutions? Oh right, no you didn't. You attempted to ridicule my stance, instead of coming up with a solution to the issue, that's what makes your reply a bitch/whine and on top of that "nothing personal" Right! Thank you for being condescending!
So instead of whining and bitching, how bout you come up with some possible solutions to the issue instead and actually contribute? Or was your intent not to actually contribute? Could it have only been to stir drama?