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So, about that Dungeon Crawler game project...
13 years ago
First of all, thanks for the positive response to those little preview shots I posted. Didn't get around to respond to all the comments yet, but I'll try and do so later. Besides, this journal should help clear up most questions you guys had.
So what is it? A built-from-scratch 2D Dungeon Crawler/ Action-RPG for PC/Windows. Well, or at least that's the plan -- right now it is still in early stages of development, but I got most things figured out and/or already in progress.
I have some former experience with little game projects in the past, so this isn't my first, however, I haven't really done anything like this in years. I guess it was all that hype surrounding Diablo III, and the general increase in popularity for Action-RPGs, which got me interested in the genre again. I'm a pretty big fan of that sort of game, in particular the old-fashioned 2D type. So, I don't know... at some point I just randomly decided, "Hey, I'll make my own!"
So what exactly is the game going to be like? Some of my main inspirations for this project include the Zelda series, Diablo and the Demon's Souls/ Dark Souls games. So basically, picture a pimped up Zelda 1, with randomized dungeons, filled with monsters/ traps which will completely rape your ass. ( ... Not literally. Pervs. ) At this time I'm working on this on my own, so of course I won't be able to reach the same amount of content and overall quality as those aforementioned games -- Still that description is pretty close to what I'm going for in the end.
Combat will mostly be centred around magic spells. Ideally I want to add a few dozen or so different spells and special skills, all of which the player will have to discover throughout the dungeon, in the form of spell scrolls dropped by monsters or contained within treasure chests.
Oh yeah, if you bothered to read this far -- It might be of interest that the game will also be free. So anyone interested should be able to try it, sooner or later.
The current goal is to finish the first dungeon level, with several monster types, ~20 spells and a boss at the end. Once I have that, I'll most likely turn it into a demo or "minimalist" version and share it. Since the monster, trap and treasure placement, and the dungeon itself will be randomized, that should be enough to keep people playing for a few hours at least. Especially since I also intent to add multiple difficulty settings, somewhere between "Challenging" and "&ยง$%&$%...!!1"
Oh, speaking of the magic system: Since it is my goal to include many different and fun spells, I could still use some suggestions for magic categories as well as specific spells. Please describe what it would do, along with a possible name for the spell. I've already started work on "Pyromancy" spells, and I'll most likely have "Frost" spells, as well. Just added the basics for a "Meteor" spell tonight. Wheee!
That's it for now -- I'll post again soon, with any additional info and/or progress updates on the game!
So what is it? A built-from-scratch 2D Dungeon Crawler/ Action-RPG for PC/Windows. Well, or at least that's the plan -- right now it is still in early stages of development, but I got most things figured out and/or already in progress.
I have some former experience with little game projects in the past, so this isn't my first, however, I haven't really done anything like this in years. I guess it was all that hype surrounding Diablo III, and the general increase in popularity for Action-RPGs, which got me interested in the genre again. I'm a pretty big fan of that sort of game, in particular the old-fashioned 2D type. So, I don't know... at some point I just randomly decided, "Hey, I'll make my own!"
So what exactly is the game going to be like? Some of my main inspirations for this project include the Zelda series, Diablo and the Demon's Souls/ Dark Souls games. So basically, picture a pimped up Zelda 1, with randomized dungeons, filled with monsters/ traps which will completely rape your ass. ( ... Not literally. Pervs. ) At this time I'm working on this on my own, so of course I won't be able to reach the same amount of content and overall quality as those aforementioned games -- Still that description is pretty close to what I'm going for in the end.
Combat will mostly be centred around magic spells. Ideally I want to add a few dozen or so different spells and special skills, all of which the player will have to discover throughout the dungeon, in the form of spell scrolls dropped by monsters or contained within treasure chests.
Oh yeah, if you bothered to read this far -- It might be of interest that the game will also be free. So anyone interested should be able to try it, sooner or later.
The current goal is to finish the first dungeon level, with several monster types, ~20 spells and a boss at the end. Once I have that, I'll most likely turn it into a demo or "minimalist" version and share it. Since the monster, trap and treasure placement, and the dungeon itself will be randomized, that should be enough to keep people playing for a few hours at least. Especially since I also intent to add multiple difficulty settings, somewhere between "Challenging" and "&ยง$%&$%...!!1"
Oh, speaking of the magic system: Since it is my goal to include many different and fun spells, I could still use some suggestions for magic categories as well as specific spells. Please describe what it would do, along with a possible name for the spell. I've already started work on "Pyromancy" spells, and I'll most likely have "Frost" spells, as well. Just added the basics for a "Meteor" spell tonight. Wheee!
That's it for now -- I'll post again soon, with any additional info and/or progress updates on the game!
If I were any good with game design, I'd offer to help :p In the meantime though, I'll try and think of some spells.
The player will control only one character, and it's a single player game, so there won't really be "friendlies", unless I decide to add some sort of summon or pet creature. There will be some player buff spells, though, and possibly some enemy de-buffs.
And I hadn't really thought of water spells. I might add a "Nature" spell category, and include some water spells in that, like some sort of acid rain perhaps. Hmm. Feel free to suggest any more specific spell ideas.
How about necromancy? It gets away from usual fantasy RPG mages. Well, okay, Diablo had them, and Dragon's Dogma, but it's still rare.
The thing is, summoning magic is much harder to add in than basic elemental projectile/AoE spells.
I'll consider some sort of "Dark" spell category, though.
temporary-terrain spells (such as Wall of Stone or Stone to Mud or Sudden Pit) are incredibly nifty!
as are Charms and Mezzes.
Haste and Slow offer a greater range of control options, bonus points if they affect Regeneration and Poison speeds too...
and then there's various projectile behaviors... from the simple circle-burst to the straight line... hmmm... go look at Path of Exile or Dungeon Siege for inspiration about projectiles.
Not a D&D player, either, or I probably wouldn't have to ask for suggestions. Hah hah...
I already considered some spells like Fire-Wall or Ice-Wall, to allow for some mob control and interesting tactical choices.
There will likely be some form(s) of Haste and/or Slow, as well.
EQ1 Enchanters were a player class specialized in combat control, utility and buffs and debuffs. Invisibility, Roots, Haste, Slow, Charm, Mez and Rune Shields, they just didn't do damage. they could be deadly through crippling debuffs and then using charmed opponents against each other, though. it was a very complex and indirect, if rewarding, class. action RPGs universally go for direct nuking from their mages, and that just seems insultingly simple to me. the master of supernatural forces and godlike wit resort to little more than glorified bonfires to accomplish the same thing that three feet of sharpened metal could accomplish much more elegantly? hmmm...
combos. i'd like to see an ARPG with spell combos. D3 wanted so badly to go there with the Time Warp Bubble on their wizards, but lacked majorly in variety. GW2 is trying to go there by adding effects to projectiles that pass through Effect Walls, and various other mechanics, but we shall see. play through Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles (especially the first one on the Gamecube) to get more inspiration for that stuff. multiple weaker spells combined in specific and challenging ways to create new and unique spells (there's no way to cast Holy, for example, without Spell Fusion)
I really should've played EQ1 and GW. Ah, well, some day. Anyway, in more recent memory, I feel comfortable pointing at Dragon's Dogma as an interesting example of mage variety. The game does strive for overall simplicity in spell rotations, as there are no combos and one can only wield 6 spells at a time. The closest one can get to a combo is through using items to inflict statuses like drenched (extra lightning damage) or oiled (extra fire damage and burn chance). However, there is still a wide breadth of ways in which a mage/sorceror can operate in a party.
A mage can go for healing and debuffs only. Heal spell, cure spell (removes most debuffs), some elemental augments, and maybe a fire wall or the darkness-based binding spell. The sorceror has no such healing potential, but can also focus on control over damage, with many spells based on inflicting negative status effects (blind, torpor/slow, poison, petrification) as well as some that are buffs (a cure-esque anti-spell, a def/atk boost). There are other ways to go about it, obviously including Super Massive Damage, but the way one can mix these together is really nice, especially since few/no combinations ever feel weak if you play them right.
On the subject of spell combinations, I'm really not sure that GW2 will adequately feature these. The effect walls are startlingly few, from what I've seen, and there's really no substance in the whole "use your environment" idea. D3... well, I really just don't talk about D3. Not kindly, anyway. Some good modern examples can be seen in MOBAs, though, such as LoL and DotA. The champion Brand comes to mind, from LoL. His passive basically amounts to "spells have an extra DoT, and you can do combos while the DoT is on." Q acquires a stun, W gains damage, E has splash damage, R bounces faster. Simple, sure, but with only 4 spells available and balance being a concern, it was done fairly well.
D&D 3.5 has way more utility spells and roleplay effects compared to 4e. honestly, 4e is rightly reviled as being entirely "push button deal damage" instead of tactical. whereas opponents in 3.5 can usually be overcome without ever entering combat (by clever trap, ruse, or manipulation) because of the sheer utility power that various spells offer the smart player. why bother with clumsy nukes that will take ten rounds to whittle down that demon's HP when you can just Dominate it and use it for your own purposes? or why bother pleasing the King in his quest when you can Geas him or Curse him until he is too afraid of you to withhold a reward... or create a thousand skeletons and zombies with wight captains and lich generals to overtake the land without you ever personally getting your hands dirty, that sort of thing. in terms of combat, there's all sorts of traps you can create with the various Wall spells, Symbol spells and terrain. Petrify an enemy and then push it off a cliff so that it shatters. place Web right in the middle of the Stinking Cloud you summoned so that the wretched goblins have to save against both spells or be incapacitated and yet still have to overcome the difficult terrain you created in order to escape... or the almighty low level combo: put them to sleep and them slit their helpless throats with your boot knife...
Actually, that's an idea. Some tactical spells might be nice, not just control/debuff in the classic sense. Maybe something like Garble or Confuse, which makes an enemy's ability/spell usage randomized. Spells granting vision and knowledge would be good, too. Scan, mayhaps, to see enemy stats and details. Various spells to brighten and dim. Something to look through doors or into chests. A large field of, say, sound or holy light to reveal hidden enemies/objects for a period of time.
Hmm... Mayhaps I simply haven't played enough of both games to fully appreciate the differences. I've dabbled in each, and I always prefer control-ish types, usually a wizard. Now that I reflect further, though, I played much less wizard in 4e than I did in 3.5, so I might be assuming that things carry when they really don't. I'll have to look through the PHBs again. (Side note: 4e might be "nuke everything ever forever" in a suboptimal way, but -jesus- is it fun to play a goliath barbarian~)
On the bright side, I think our combined comment chain has given quite a breadth of ideas, which was really the ultimate goal. Here's hoping there's aught of use~
But I really enjoyed what I've seen of it so far, mostly because they managed to pull off such a convincing, detailed Medieval Fantasy world. There's just so many little touches and subtleties, if you pay close attention. And the armour/clothing and environment designs seem very believable and practical, none of the over-designed, sparkly bullshit you get in most other games of the genre.
But I agree, it can be interesting to have a wider range of tactical options, and I also like the idea of spells that work best in combination. In example, one could cast a poison spell on a group of monsters, then take cover behind a magical ice or rock wall, until the monsters go down.
Fire: deals solid dmg, and maybe a damage over time component. higher lvl spells have a larger area of effect and/or deal more dmg.
Ice: deals just a little damage but slows the movement of foes. higher lvl spells might have a large area of effect or have a lingering aspect where they stick to the dungeon floor or create impassibel walls.
Electricity: focuses on hitting multiple enemies but deals minor dmg to any one foe. higher lvl spells may even stun enemies for a short time.
Life: deals minor dmg to foes but heals the character for a portion of that. lower lvl spells target one foe while higher lvl spells do an area-of-effect around the caster
Rune: places stationary magical traps that detonate when a monster passes over it. higher lvl spells create a larger AoE and/or trip from further away
Mind: variety of effects ranging from stunning enemies to making enemies to run away or, even at higher levels, make enemies attack one another for a short time
Slowing/ freezing Frost spells, and utility spells like an ice wall, will most likely be in, as well.
Not sure if I'll add an entire Lightning category, but I'll probably add some spells as part of another category.
Still indecisive about healing spells. As I mentioned, the game is meant to be pretty challenging, and I intend for healing skills/items/special events to be quite rare.
Some form of trap spells like "magical mines" will most likely be added, as well.
The "Mind" category is interesting. I might try and add a set of skills/ spells with focus on avoiding or controlling enemies, instead of fighting them directly.
Thanks for the suggestions!
As for magic, I think it would be helpful to have castable light effects (kind of like Candlelight in Skyrim) and the ability to summon/turn one monster to your aid.
I'm also thinking of adding a feature similar to Diablo II's "champions", where every monster has a small chance of spawning with a random enchantment, potentially making them much tougher and more interesting to fight.
Not sure if there's much point in light spells, unless I add some really dark areas to the dungeon. ( And figure out efficient ways of doing so. ) It's pretty much the same with summoning spells -- I'll consider adding these features, but for now they aren't a priority.
Sin magic: Heavy damage, negative stats but always has a chance to backfire or apply a penalty.
As for your other suggestion, I'd also rather keep skills that require "luck" to a minimum. Could be pretty discouraging and annoying if you keep losing, just because the RNG gave you a few bad rolls. There will be many randomized elements, of course, but when it comes to player skills, I want to reward actual, well... skill, and clever tactics, not turn it into a lottery.
My sweetie,
I'd love to see him networking with an artist of your caliber for future projects, if you have any interest.
As for your request, I'm afraid my own project is going to keep me very busy for some time to come, so I doubt I'll have time to do art for other games or similar big projects. I'll check out that game, though. I gave it a quick glance already, and while it lacks in the presentation department, some of the features seem pretty cool. Has some things I intend to add to my own game, actually ( such as the different starting classes/stats and character portraits ).
He also programs in several languages. He uses action script in Flash, rather than the Flash authoring tool (which is, as you say, limiting). He actually has 5+ years experience in professional game design, in the casual games industry. But, like all creative people, he wants to do his own stuff too, and I'm always looking to hook him up with other like-minded individuals. Even if you never work together, you might be able to share information, or help promote each other's projects, etc. *shrug* I figure it never hurts to know people.
Anyway, thanks for taking a glance at the game. If you like, I can drop you a line when it updates. He has some pretty exciting new features prepping for the next build.
And your friend already sent me a note ( which I just replied to ). Still didn't get a chance to give his game a closer look, but it's on my mental list of "stuff to do". :P
1.5. Drain spells are awesome, especially DoT/HoT spells. Leech Seed is a great example of such. This can also go along with aforementioned summoning/necromancy; sacrificing pawns for health can increase complexity and add a lot of potential for self-expression.
2. Flashy, risky, hugely powerful damage abilities are fantastic. Make them big, make them loud, and make them hurl every enemy within 300 feet away with 9999 damage, then also make them take a couple years to cast with the only possible interruption being death. Comet, Explode, even outright Death.
3. DoTs are great, especially when combined with other nasty tricks. I'm a big fan of quickly racking up defenses (shield, tough skin, walls), or inflicting blindness/silence, then going straight to poisons, constricting vines, diseases, etc. Watch them writhe, keep up a shield/sleep spell, laugh and laugh and laugh.
4. If folks want fun and silly spells, they need not lose practicality. Polymorph/shrink can be a way to say "I want to ignore this battle for now" by making the enemy instantly ineffective. That might sound overpowered, but this can be mitigated by the loss of potential experience or loot, as well as safety once the spell wears off. You can also include tricks like a blink + brief invis, a la Shaco's Deceive in LoL. Heck, get in some fan service with Charm or Seductive Distraction, and use those as debuffs/control.
Currently the plan is to only grant the player full health at the start of a dungeon level, and just before a major boss fight. Outside of that it would be very limited/ rare.
And yes, I do intend to have many powerful AoE effect spells, with a long casting time and/or cool-down after use. Actually, most spells in the game will be capable of hurting everyone they hit, including the player -- so depending on the situation and terrain, you won't always be able to just nuke whatever comes at you.
And I'm considering an entire spell/skill category based on illusions and mind control and the like, focused on avoiding or manipulating enemies instead of direct damage.
- projecting a powerful sonic wave that pops enemies' ear drums (area effect, of course), which disables them temporarily, and nullifies their ability to coordinate with each other permanently, causing them to accidentally attack each other
- projecting sounds of incoming allies, to make enemies turn away and attack an empty spot on the map, until they realize the trick
- similarly, nullify your own sounds, to avoid detection
- blowing up stuff (Sound is pressure change, and sufficient pressure change can do really, really nasty things)
I already intend to have most spells capable of affecting everyone they hit, regardless of the caster, so that should lead to some... amusing results. Could allow for interesting tactics, such as provoking an enemy caster to hit his own allies.
I could also imagine adding some decoy spell ( based on sound, light or whatever ), that causes enemies to ignore you for a while.
If spells have ranks, you can have a 'seek' spell that always casts first. If you cast 'seek' and then they cast say, fireball, you can then instantly select a spell that could counter it / block it of lower rank. So if they cast a rank 3 fireball you could use a rank 2 fire ward as a sort of instant block: a great strategy if an enemy is charging up something that you can't tell ahead of time.
Mental Prison: Something that deals damage over time, and lowers speed with each tick of damage until it either kills the target or immobilizes them/stuns. (first second damage, 1-4 seconds slow, 5th second immobilize, 6th second stun.) It'd be more like a telekinetic prison.
'Scaling' spells, or something that casting it in a row builds up its power while having some form of drawback. You could even have it associate with another spell to consume the built up power in either a large burst or a form of defensive shield for a short time (Cast Spell A 3 times, then casting spell B could detonate all of the charges at once, Spell C could turn the charges into a resource, Spell D could turn charges into a shield. All on top of the spells usual effects)
Another under-used spell school is spirit/ritualism. Something that works around the willpower (not intelligence) and unseen strength of an individual. It'd mostly work around augmenting strength, weakening power, causing spell misfires, illusions, summoning, and making use of things killed.
Lastly: Guild Wars 1 Mesmer like magic. Its entire purpose is to piss you off by messing with your skills while doing nothing on their own. Examples are:
Backfire: puts a debuff on the target that deals damage anytime they cast a spell in the next 8 seconds, the damage it deals is waaaay more than anything that could be cast to heal it.
Empathy: same thing, but with physical attacks
Cry of Fustration: Inturrupt whatever is being cast, that person gives out a cry that inturrupts anything being done by anyone around them as well.
Aneurysm: Target foe regains all of (Resource) and takes damage equal to x3 the resource gained and all foes around them lose X of their own resource.
Arcane Thievery: Disable one spell an opponent has at random. This skill becomes that spell for 20 seconds.
Illusion of Haste: Remove all slows, move 33% faster for X seconds, You then are Crippled for X seconds once the effect ends. (Combine this with a skill that transfers negative effects to an enemy from yourself and have fun.
Usually you can look at other games and see some dynamic stuff they've come up with. Just be careful not to make things to complex or mathy. It leads more room for finding a crazy exploit.
A-hah-hah... I can picture it now. Player enters dungeon room -> sees new enemy type, some sort of skeleton mage -> mage casts curse spell on player -> nothing happens -> player feels safe and proceeds to launch some huge-ass fireball at the enemy -> splat ... player is dead, and wonders what the fuck happened.
That's pretty terrible. And also hilarious. I may just have to include something like that.
Thanks for all the suggestions!
Is the game going to be closer to action-RPG or action-adventure?
Is the game going to be an endless marathon contest for high scores (like Rogue?) If so, I'm really excited for it haha.
If it's more RPG than action but where grinding is punished, and endless score attack with leaderboards... I'd pay $20 for it even if there were no bug creatures LOL.
Actually, this has really inspired me to design a similar game. My biggest problem is that I can't program well yet ._.
My favorite part of Mega Man 9/Mega Man 10 were the endless attack modes. And Rogue is STILL one of my favorite games of all time.
As for the game goal, in the long run I'd like for it to be story-driven, with multiple dungeons, bosses, and some simple "cut-scenes"/ story sequences. However, since it will take a long time to create all the content and features, the first release(s) will probably be more arcade like. You'll just make your way through a randomized dungeon, trying not to get killed, and eventually defeat the boss of the area ( or not... mwahaha ). The first release will likely only have one boss, so after defeating him/it the game would be over. However, I intend to add multiple difficulty levels, to keep it fun for a while ( along with the randomized areas ). And I'll likely keep track of various stats, such as the amount of killed creatures, or the time it took you to clear the dungeon. So, in theory you could share those stats with your friends, for a little competition. ( Don't know how to add actual online features, but I could add the option to export your results as a picture, so you can easily share it with others. )
I might also include other arcade like challenges and alternate modes, such as a survival mode, with endlessly respawning monsters, or the like.
And yeah, the programming part can give you some serious headaches... XD I'm using some Multimedia Development tool, so it's not "real" programming, I guess... ? But there's a lot of similar programs out there, depending on the game genre you are going for, so that should help.
And if you need a tester down the line, feel free to drop a note :3
As for the suggestions: first of all, i'd urge you to try The Binding of Isaac, it's a very innovative crawler, maybe it'll inspire you to try some new concepts. It's great fun too.
For the magical schools: Pornomancy. It has to be done.
Level 1: Spawn magazines (it stops and distract the enemies charging at you).
Level 2: The monster near you is really really cute (Makes monster molest each other)
Level 3: Profit! (Make monsters drop coins if they find magazines)
Level 4: White Knight (A monster will defend you as long as you keep pornomancy up as you mayor skill)
...
Level 100: Power Word Web (Instantly fills a monster brain with all the worse pr0n pictures of the internets, cause the instant monster death and area damage due to the blain explosion, every monster facing him will also be blinded).
(On a more serious note: summoning and self/other metamorphosis are great mechanics is done well. And telekinesis, if you have moveable items, and a chance to turn them in projectiles)
It's going to be a pretty serious and dark game, though, so no sexy tiems -- just old fashioned blood and guts and explosions.
And I'd try that game, but I'm pretty sure it's Steam only? Don't use that and don't want it, for various reasons, so there. :<
As for your more serious suggestions, I intend to have some summoning and possibly control spells. Telekinesis would probably be tricky to do well, but I'll consider it.
And yeah, I'll likely need some "lab rats" to test the game on, once I have a first basic release ready, so I might get back to you on that. :P
And now,
on to precompile an online petition for the inclusion of pornomancy, err.. good work :3But as far as I know, TBOI uses pre-designed rooms, with randomized opponent placement and such... ? At least that's pretty close to what I have planned for my game. There will be a few dozen rooms and the game will randomly arrange them, and then further randomize the content of each room. ( In addition to special unique rooms, which will always spawn with the same content, such as boss rooms, or other special events. )
Pornomancy should probably include some projectile spells, as well, huh?The gameplay resembles a cross between an rpg and a double-stick shooter robotron-like.
Yes. With white icons.Enchanting - dealing with bonus's to armor/shield/weapons - be it added damage or protection or resistence to elements for short periods of time.
Think the Pornmancy would have charming to get others to follow you or fall in love with you till the deed is done.
I gave the potential spell classes some more thought, however, and there will likely be a "Nature" category, which would include some vine and/or poison spells. Heck, why not poison vines?
Enchanting might be a bit boring on its own, but I will include a few spells like that in the other spell categories. ( Buffs / Debuffs and such. )