cuz in their minds the only way to solve gun crime...is with more guns! look under your chair everybody you get a gun! EVERYBODY gets a gun!

yeah...that'll help, the only way to prevent more gun crime is to take the damn guns away, THATS logic there! i'm so glad two people held up anti-NRA signs during that conference though XD

There's just one tiny flaw with that line of logic: if criminals want a gun bad enough, they'll find a way to get one regardless, then what? We have no way to defend ourselves from those sick bastards.

Taking away guns is not the answer, because it will not stop anything. The criminals will still find a way to get a gun, and we will have no way to defend ourselves.

With that said, armed security is schools is not the answer: I remember how Nazi-esque it was like shortly after the Columbine shootings (had to have a clear backpack, no cargo pants, etc), and that's nothing compared to what the NRA is suggesting now. Hell, the high school I went there already looks like a prison: that would just make it an overglorified prison.

What's the answer then? We need to start stepping up counseling and mental health treatment for people that need it. You know, actually try to get these people help instead of just half-assing the attempt at helping them just to collect a paycheck.

Well, the problem is that all of these school shootings are being committed with legally owned and purchased weaponry, not black market firearms. As in, students who had no other access to weapons, no criminal backgrounds, no shady associations, and probably wouldn't have been able to get a gun otherwise. :S

But there had to have been tell tale signs something was wrong with this dude. Something people aren't bothering to look at in all of this, and this has been a very strong criticism of how this has been handled: rather than try to figure out how we can prevent something like this (i.e. getting people help), most people are just looking for the easiest scapegoat that requires the smallest amount of effort to put forth as opposed to doing something that, while it would require more work, would more than likely actually work.

I agree, but I'm also not getting into further discussion here because :furaffinity:.

This 'dude' murdered his mother and stole her guns.

Pretty sure he committed a crime somewhere in there to get them.

I think you need to take a closer look at where they got those guns... You may want to read what I posted below...

You would be scared to death if you knew what deadly things that can be mixed up with the things you find under most kitchen sinks or cleaning closets... or the hardware store. And none of them would be bigger then a pint or quart jar.

I disagree with you and I'll leave it at that.

If you'd like to discuss it with me, feel free. If not, that's fine, too.

Know what's funny? Them jackasses actually sent me a membership application two weeks ago.

I'm all for the right to bear arms (and I plan to buy my own in the future) but I am not a NRA supporter. And the president of the NRA is a Grade A idiot.

I was hoping they would come out with a reasonable idea. Unfortunately that did not happen.

Gun control. I understand that it is necessary. But the NRA leadership is why I will not join that group.

Seriously: it's like every fundamentalist, be they religious or political or what have you, has decided to be completely obstinate and intractable! THE WORLDS NOT BLACK AND WHITE, PEOPLE!!!! THERE'S TIMES TO STAND UP AND THERE'S TIMES TO COMPROMISE!!!!

have a read http://actionamerica.org/guns/guns1.shtml and see what the Criminologists say. This opened my eyes a fair bit.

No, it's an article that cites what -one- criminologist says and portrays it as fact. If that 'opened your eyes', then I have news for you - they're still closed. If you wish to provide more clearly cited sources about other criminologists before stating 'that's what criminologists think', then you are more than welcome to. However, linking only this one source that blankets all criminologists with the paper that was written by one is as disingenuous as it is idiotic. Please understand rigor and logic and stop using appeals to emotion. Also, ditch the condescending tone. "This opened my eyes" is one of those catchphrases that tells you someone's trying to sell you something by convincing you that you were too stupid to see it before, but it's okay, because they were too, but now they're not and therefore they can -educate- you.

Yea i have to Agree there. the NRA answer to Guns? Use more guns... Its utterly Silly, also i heard that they placed the blame for all gun crimes on video Games.

I would have to say I think there is some truth to the violent video games because it get's you thinking of people as things. I worked around two guys that were into many of the most violent video games and it spilled over into how they treated their co-workers. One of them was charged with aggravated assault and battery for beating on one of the team members with a chunk of pipe. He was also on Fen-phen too

Oh god, I know what you mean. The absurdity coming from both sides leaves me sick. I'm terrified of guns. Unloaded ones make my anxiety jump through the roof. Do you know what would make me feel unsafe after a violent incident like that? More guns.

I'm starting to actually become a little frightened of how rabid some people are getting over their deadly weapons.

Well I grew up in the 60s and 70s and we almost never had this happen. All you see is the guns... Why not forget about the guns and look at the deeper cause. Start looking for the ROOT CAUSE.

Work up a profile on the shooters... Now work up a profile on all the aggravated assaults and lethal assaults where no gun was used, put them together. You will find,

A. you will find most Perps are between 16-30.
B. You will find almost all (99.6%) are male.
C. you will find they are loners or part of a gang.
D. Most are on one or more of the many prescribed psychotropic medications.
E. most are/were into violent video games.
F. many are from affluent neighborhoods and or families.

Now let's look at the the shooters shall we.

A. All of them were between 17-26.
B. All of them were MALE
C. All of them were loners Or hung with in themselves (Columbine)
D. All are on one or more prescribed psychotropic medications.
E. All of them were heavily into the most violent video games on the market.
F. All were from affluent neighborhoods and or families.

Do you see the pattern yet?

Criminal like easy pray and all you do by making "gun free zones" is put a sign around your neck that has a bright red target on it. SO with the gun laws on the books right now would you please tell me well they are working? Have they stopped one crime or murder? That answer is NO! So how are more gun laws going to work any better? All they are going to do is make you and I an easier targets for the criminals.

Now I know you are going to say leave it to the cops... The facts are they have no that is right NO legal obligation to protect you! That's right they can watch you being killed and they are not legally bound to help you. They are only there to deal with things after the fact... meaning YOU or YOUR loved one are DEAD or hurting. This is a fact and the high court has even ruled so. I have four dead friends because the cops never showed up till after it happened and one of them was on the phone as he was being killed. The cope were less than FOUR miles away, when he made the first call. The cops were on scene 25 mins after the LAST CALL. In all the reports the cops concluded IF they had been armed and used a firearm they would have had a 75% chance of still being alive.

I understand you have made up your mind that your feelings are right so who cares what the real facts are. We have a model that is not working and has not worked from the start. Yet you will cling to it till it kills you or the people you care about.

You look at the cities with the most restrictive gun laws and they all have the highest crime rate and the most murders. cities...Washington DC, Chicago, Illinois, New York, NY.

You look at the states with the most relaxed gun laws or no gun laws at all they have the least crime, like North Dakota, Vermont, Wyoming, South Dakota, Maine.

You look at one of the the most heavily armed country in the world Switzerland and it has the lowest crime rate in the world as of last tally.

I found some interesting things in my digging, http://www.theblessingsofliberty.co.....article11.html and http://actionamerica.org/guns/guns1.shtml The last one I found the most interesting of the two.

Stop citing blogs as relevant sources. Also, correlation does not equal causation.

100% of the shooters drank water.
100% of the shooters were members of homo sapiens.
100% of the shooters had genitalia.
100% of the shooters took painkillers at some point in their lives.

Therefore, to prevent further incidents, we should dehydrate and castrate all humans without the use of painkillers.



My argument is equally as stupid as yours. It is as equally filled with horrifically flawed logic, and only lacks the appeals to emotion and the condescending compression of a deep, complex issue into a talking point.

North Dakota, Vermont, Wyoming, South Dakota, and Maine also have some of the lowest population densities in the country - could it be that the lack of people is why there are less murders? What about racial makeup? What about the number of people who drink coca cola? Who masturbate left handed?

Your arguments are stupid. If you grew up in the 60s and 70s, I would hope that at some point in there you took a course or two in school and learned the basics of a proper debate - presenting facts, rebutting the facts of the opposition, and avoiding logical fallacies. REGARDLESS of my opinions on the matter, which may be closer to yours than you think, since I realize that debating a bunch of politically naive furries about complex issues is about as productive as masturbating with a cheese grater, I am offended by your utter inability to present your point in a cogent and rational manner that appeals to clear, logical reasoning and deductive logic.

Furthermore, actionamerica.org is not an independent, unbiased site. It takes one look at the articles on its front page to realize that it is a Republican, not Conservative, blog, and for that matter, one that caters towards the Tea Party subgroup. The blessings of liberty isn't even that, it's a ranting, raving blog whos front page articles are rants about the Clinton administration.

Your sources are, in other words, heavily biased and untrustworthy.

You may now engage in flaming me, for it will amuse me greatly.

I will say is go dig for yourself. You yourself would have a hard time finding unbiased sites to prove or disprove your stand.

The numbers were per capita of 100,000 people and they were compiled by the FBI as of 2011 and they rated North Dakota, Vermont, Wyoming, South Dakota, and Maine as States with the lowest crime rate.

Funny how you say "ditch the condescending tone." but you turn right around and post things to me that are even more condescending. It seems to me you are pulling the do as I say not as I do line.

Can we both agree that the current gun laws are not working? Yes or No?

Can we both agree that criminals are not stopped by any laws? Yes or No?

Would any of the gun laws have stopped these shootings? Yes or No?

The facts have proven that the law in place now didn't even slow these people down. Are more laws going to going to slow them down? Face it we both know more laws are not going to slow them down much less stop them. Anyone that thinks more laws will help are only fooling themselves and no one else.

The facts show me the model they have pawned off on us is broken and is not working. And more of the same is not going to fix it.

We are trying to childproof the world and make it safe for them, I'm sorry that doesn't work. The best we can do is to try to world-proof the child and hope for the best. I happen to have grandchildren that I care about and love very much and putting them in danger at school is not my idea of keeping them safe.

I'm not an american, so I probably shouldn't give advices, but I think you're totally right about this. Has the weapon law every prevented such a madness? a society with tells people that weapons can actually solve problems has a serious problem, being carefull and installing security systems is one thing, but armed personal?

A spree kiled does that to get killed himself, after he did as much damage as possible, so armer personal could very likely have to opposide effect.

Here's a little quote for all you people that disagree with GingerM

As the US once again struggles with the issue of gun control, the success of John Howard's 1996 laws banning semi-automatic weapons in Australia has been raised in the American debate.The New York Times has referred to Australia's gun laws as a "road map" for the US, saying that "in the 18 years before the law, Australia suffered 13 mass shootings - but not one in the 14 years after the law took full effect."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-.....xample/4431262

Now, no one is saying this is a perfect solution, but it's a damn sight better than the current situation.

So turn schools into backward prisons?
All you have to do is take out the guard(s).
Or better yet, solve issue like weapon restrictions in Canada, only 10 cases here since 1902, the 11th was someone firing in the air to scare.
Damn U.S. has its own wiki page list of shoots, 8 of them for 2012. List goes all the way back to the 1800s. Just happen this shooting happen to have the highest death toll in a long time in the U.S. (since 2007, the Virginia Tech massacre of 33). But on average, 8-10 schools shootings per year in the U.S., average deaths of 1-3.
Ban the assault rifles, no need for them. They can still bear arms with pistols. "But we need big guns for defense." Then join the army. The damn British aren't coming back. Canada isn't gonna raid you... well except the Canadian geese during migration season.

I did read one Texas school has teachers armed with concealed weapons. The school board has the armed teachers take a specialty course in counter-terrorism stuff and be tested for any trouble/trauma/mental-ill to revoke them from carrying the weapon. I believe they conduct that every year, the test/license renewal. Sounds a hell lot better the the NRA, that needs to grow up and leave the 1700s behind.

On note to the shooting:
Some of them are mentally-ill shooters or have been bullied, received no help and decided to say "fuck society".
So Obama trying to force new rules for mentally-ill on guns and help, good. But kindness and anti-bullying helps too.





Also to ask, don't know whats going on the B.C. side for you for politics. I know here in Ontario, Dalton McGuinty is demanding security cameras and lock doors to be installed on 4000 schools, where students have to buzz to be let in in response to the Newtown incident.

You know that any "anti-bullying" talk breaks down in real life since most bullies are not going around beating the person in public, they start off verbal then escalate to physical. If they have friends, their friends may join in. And the anti-bulling campaign that the United States is running tells you to tell an adult, but what they wont tell you is if the adult doesn't see it they cant do anything but make vague threats. Your parents cant help you even IF you tell them, the most they can do is file a report with the school and the school makes vague threats etc, etc. Even your best friends cant help you unless they have the same class at the same time as you in which your getting bullied in, provided you tell them your being bullied. The way I got out of it was to fight back, i hit by breaking point and fought back one day against the 6 of them, I only had to fight two of them and the rest backed down. I was feeling better as the day went on since they all finally backed down, but an hour later i was called up to the office and promptly suspended for a week for fighting just on the word of the six. When I got back to school they never bothered me again. If you really want to stop bullying look toward the loners and talk to them nobody wants to be alone all the time and its the loners who are singled out to be bullied if someone who was a loner has multiple people talking to them then bullies back off, also look for the signs of bulling like depression. If you really want to stop bulling we're going to have to step up and stop it and stop relying on other people to fix the problem because more than likely those other people are waiting on you.

In my job I work out in the public and my job requires me to carry a large amount money. in fact I have wittnesed a woman getting stabed from a purse thief... So you had better believe I carry a gun on me. And I know how to use it very well... I believe in being able to defend my self.

Now I wont say weathet I do or dont support the leglsation being talked about. But I am a person who if I was in the position too, I.would sacrifice my self if it ment stoping a gunman and saving innocent lives.

The sad fact that no one wants to relize is, that no matter what legislation gets passed, these shooting will continue. If someone wants to perform evil, the will find a way. All I can hope is that there is enough good people to stand up too and stop these evil men.

I'm kind of split on this one. I don't think adding more guns is the solution to a situation where too many people have guns. That said, if you have someone who wants to start shit they'll do it no matter how many restrictions you put in place. If you tighten restrictions on people buying guns people were going to start something will just go off the grid and buy on the black market, steal or produce their own.

Just to take Iraq in recent years as an example. There is no registration for a nail bomb and the AK74 rifles that are in circulation are coming from hidden cashes. Even though you can't legally buy an assault rifle in that country it seems they're not going away.

I'm not pro gun by any means but to be realistic this problem is not going away anytime soon.