Always had indoor cats, always advocated indoor cats (I think you and I actually got into it once on the topic!) for just that reason.
It's a dangerous world.

Myrtle is adorbs, even with the complications of the breed, and I hope she has a long happy life with you!

Im still a big advocate of cats being allowed out, and if we were to move to a 'nicer' area, I'd still consider it, or at the very least, a huge outdoor enclosure. Something about being in the same building for eternity bothers me. But ultimately, I've always believed its owner choice, as they know their area and cat best.
I had indoor/outdoor cats for 23 years without ever a single issue. I move to a new area, and within months it happened. Horrible place, this.
But as this one has never set foot outside, I don't have to feel bad. Plus, she's the kind of cat that even if she did go out, would probably end up wandering into the house of the nearest friendly person and living with them

I've never lived anywhere that it was safe. :(
If I did, I'd absolutely be for cats having their freedom.. but my experience has been that an outdoor cat is a dead cat.
I'm VERY very sorry for the loss of your kitties and I'm glad this one 'found' you.

I think its more about the fact that people dont watch or supervise cats outdoors assuming they will take care of themselves. Why are dogs supervised and leashed but cats arent when dogs are just as able to handle themselves outdoors? Outdoor cats with no supervision do more harm to ecology than good such as feasting on native birds.

I am a big advocate of indoor cats or indoor cats given outside access with supervision or on leash. Where I live there is a lot of coyotes and foxes that easily kill cats and many go missing too frequently due to it. Then there are cars which hit cats, poisons that people set up, people who steal pets, and then diseases that cats can get from other domestic or feral cats. To me it seems too much of a risk; I grew up with outdoor cats and never had incidents until I was about 15, then we lost about 4 cats within a few years of another whom were very healthy... I honestly think we were just lucky and playing a game of chance with our loved ones before we started having disappearances and deaths.

this

Hope you two have a long and happy life together.

She's a lovely colour. I'm glad she's found a good home with you.

Aw, she looks like a sweetie. My boy Omen has eyes that colour, they're utterly gorgeous. ^^

I'm glad you found a loving cat :) I've always had outdoor cats too, but one of our current ones has to be indoor only due to having lupus and it ended up being easier then I would have thought.
Good luck with her! She is gorgeous even with her flat face

Kitteh!

I'm not the biggest fan of domestic cats, for a couple reasons. One is this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environme.....cat-extinction - I happen to adore wildcats and knowing that crossbreeding from domestic cats is essentially wiping out our only native cat species is heartbreaking.

The other reason is this: http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/an.....rs-study-finds

Domestic cats kill dozens of small birds, rodents and other small animals (per cat, every year), which are not themselves pest species, but are in fact important parts of the ecosystem in the UK. And a lot of those species are already endangered.

I'm not suggesting domestic cats should be exterminated or anything, but some sort of responsibility needs to be taken by cat owners. Dogs might take the odd rabbit or mouse or rat, but not anything like in the numbers cats routinely slaughter.

Even worse, for the cat owner, is the possibility of the cat being killed. Or gruesomely wounded and dragging it's flattened half-body home to die (I've seen this happen, it's not nice to see and traumatic as fuck for the poor cat owner). The road that goes by our house is a national speed limit road for most of it's length, and it's not uncommon for local cats to just show up at the side of that road, beside the occasional badger, or rabbit.

Problem is, not all cats are the same, and when people argue that they should never be allowed out, they rely on assuming they are, and throwing blanket statements about.
I've had cats 23 years. I've had several individuals. Only 2 ever hunted, and both only ever caught mice, and the occasional bird. Nothing more. Not nice, but mice are hardly endangered, and the birds they caught were nothing rare or at risk.
Added to which, the biggest threat to wildlife isn't cats: its habitat and hedgerow destruction.
The rest of my cats haven't been hunters, and the two we have now certainly aren't. They've also always been spayed/castrated, microchipped, and vaccinated before being allowed out, so no worries about crossbreeding with any of mine (plus, there are no wild cats here).
Also never, in 23 years, had a single cat get hit by a cat, hurt, injured or come to any harm whatsoever from going outside.

I do think people letting unneutered cats outside when they live in dangerous areas is completely irresponsible.

The two we lost a few weeks back were a first, and almost certainly to do with this being a bad area, because before moving here, we never had a problem in all those years.

I think cats are fine being allowed out, if the owner knows the cat and the area well enough to make a sensible judgement (and thats the rub, no-one knows the risks like the actual owner, who knows the cat and knows the area they live in). If I still lived where I did before the move, I'd still let my cats out, and my old cat who still lives with mum does still go out. He would NOT be happy being inside.

The two I have now are not all that fussed about being indoor only. Some cats would hate it.

I think as long as the cats are 'fixed' and you live in a safe area, its the nicer option for the cat. Ultimately, I much prefer cats having outside access where possible. I don't think its fair to keep some cats locked in a house forever. You wouldn't do it to a dog, it would be considered abuse.
An outdoor enclosure is the best option.

I still find having outdoor cats to be a little bit irresponsible and dangerous. Any owner, even one that knows their neighborhood and the cat, cant predict what is going to happen to the cat while its out and about unsupervised even in a neighborhood which as previously deemed friendly. You wouldnt let someone who has a rat play with a cat or dog, and if memory serves you find it appalling when someone does that, yet you'd let a cat have the potential to mingle with strange people, dogs, other cats, various predators, and rodents who may carry internal parasites with or without the kitties consent(aka other being attacks cat).

Saying you had no problem for 23 years and find no problem in the future to me sounds like reasoning that smokers use or people who have the potential to get an ailment due to their lifestyles. Since it hasnt happened yet or has rarely become a problem then they feel no need to change their thinking, how they behave, or their lifestyle to prevent a future disaster, disease, or disease progression. You may have future heartbreak by not changing how you keep your pets safe. I had no problem for 15 years, living in the same neighborhood, very few people moving, yet eventually cats started to go missing... I think in the past 7 years a total of 6 cats went missing, none ever turned up.

The other thing with outdoor cats is medical issues can sometimes be ignored or go unnoticed. I found out my cat was diabetic and he probably was diabetic for years but I never knew because he went to the bathroom outside, regular vet exams didnt catch it either... it wasnt until he started getting really thin quickly and losing his fur that we found out about it and by that time his blood glucose level was uncontrollable regardless of how much insulin he was on or what diet he was on. After 2 years of battling it we had him put down because he started looking like he was always in pain, never groomed himself, he became a mess.


Cats, unlike dogs, can have their lives enriched enough indoors that they can lead happy healthy lives without ever experiencing outside. Climbing spots, lots of toys which you use with the cat, resting areas, cat tv, and being able to view outside can be enough for a cat. Cat pens or walking the cat is the best option when having an indoor cat but its not always an option depending on where one lives.

You'll do what you do but I hope that to some degree this may make you think a little more on the subject for future cats you may have.

I still find having outdoor cats to be a little bit irresponsible and dangerous. Any owner, even one that knows their neighborhood and the cat, cant predict what is going to happen to the cat while its out and about unsupervised even in a neighborhood which as previously deemed friendly. You wouldnt let someone who has a rat play with a cat or dog, and if memory serves you find it appalling when someone does that, yet you'd let a cat have the potential to mingle with strange people, dogs, other cats, various predators, and rodents who may carry internal parasites with or without the kitties consent(aka other being attacks cat).

No, it isn't. Im far from an irresponsible owner, as I think you know well. But I advocate outdoor access to cats where possible. I had cats for 23 years, continuously, in my old home without one single issue. Not one. Never a car accident, never a dog attack, never even a fight with any other cats, they all lived to their teens and died of 'natural' causes. My cats were flead, wormed, neutered, vaccinated, chipped and anything else one could do to a cat, so internal paraistes or fleas weren't a concern, neither were any 'diseases' they could get from other cats. Most free roaming cats are pretty savvy; they don't go running up to dogs in the street to say hi. The ONLY predator we have in the UK capable of killing a cat is a fox, unlike the USA, we're not big on large predators in this country.
Considering I never had a problem with any of the things you mentioned, not once, I don't consider it a big risk in the area we lived. I've yet to hear of cats coming to harm there.

You know, I've never been opposed to indoor only cats IF its the right kind of cat and for the right reasons, and the owner builds an enclosure so the cat can get some fresh air. But what I have always had a major issue with is the attitude of some indoor only owners who think the sun shines out of their arse, and that they are superior to everyone else, or that they're 'the responsible ones' and people like me are just clueless or stupid, or we don't know our own pets, or they know what is better for our animals than we do.
Please don't show that attitude. It is beneath you.


he other thing with outdoor cats is medical issues can sometimes be ignored or go unnoticed. I found out my cat was diabetic and he probably was diabetic for years but I never knew because he went to the bathroom outside, regular vet exams didnt catch it either... it wasnt until he started getting really thin quickly and losing his fur that we found out about it and by that time his blood glucose level was uncontrollable regardless of how much insulin he was on or what diet he was on. After 2 years of battling it we had him put down because he started looking like he was always in pain, never groomed himself, he became a mess.


Depends how much you care for your cat, and how much time you spend with it. Obviously a cat that is thrown outside and never interacted with has this risk, but thats not what we're talking about, is it? We're talking about loved pets who simply have access to a bit of outside time here and there, but spend more time indoors.

I've yet to have a cat that didn't also have a litter box indoors, and didn't also go to the toilet indoors. They are in overnight, after all. I fail to see how someone having a cat that goes out for a wander for an hour or two a day is going to be any more likely to miss health issues than someone who doesn't. Unless you pick through your cats pee all day every day, every time he goes, and examine it.

Cats, unlike dogs, can have their lives enriched enough indoors that they can lead happy healthy lives without ever experiencing outside. Climbing spots, lots of toys which you use with the cat, resting areas, cat tv, and being able to view outside can be enough for a cat. Cat pens or walking the cat is the best option when having an indoor cat but its not always an option depending on where one lives.


This is a bold statement to make, and entirely YOUR OPINION, not a fact.
There are some people who never walk their dogs, ever, they just let them run about in the yard and insist they are happy enough with that. Is that ok? Is the dog truly happy?
I fail to see how you make the distinction between dogs and cats, that one would be miserable confined to a house for eternity, but the other would love it. Bizarre. To me, it is as cruel to confine some cats as it is to confine a dog.
My dog has plenty of enrichment in his life, tons of toys in the house, tons of stuff to do, we play lots of games, we do lots of training, he can look out the window, everything you say is sufficient for a cat, but you know what? That isn't enough. And it would be cruel, to me, to keep him locked in here forever. Why is it ok for a cat but animal abuse to a dog?
Cats have just as much desire to explore, feel grass under their feet, chase, climb and breathe fresh air as dogs do.

As for the pens being 'optional'.....no. They should be compulsory for anyone who wants a confined cat. Im cool with outdoor enclosures, and am going to make one for my cats. If one doesn't have the ability to build an enclosure, and they have a cat who longs to be outside, perhaps they should not get a cat at all, or choose one that has no desire to go outside?
There are some cats who genuinely have little interest in going outside. One of mine doesn't. She couldn't care less.
Other cats I've had would have been utterly miserable confined to the house. One of them was a street kitten, she was raised outside. We had to keep her confined until she was old enough to be neutered, and she HATED it. Even developed a few behavioural problems.
As soon as he went outside, she was a changed cat. Happier, calmer, far more easy going, happier all round.

You'll do what you do but I hope that to some degree this may make you think a little more on the subject for future cats you may have.

See, thats what Im talking about; the attitude that you seem to think you're teaching me something when you type, like I needed to be 'educated', like I hadn't thought long and hard on this subject long before you came along, the assumption that I haven't thought as much about my views as you have yours, and I desperately need your help to know how to look after my cats properly.
You see why it comes off as arrogant?
Im not telling YOU how to care for your cats. Im not telling you that you're 'irresponsible', Im not going off at you telling you the risks of keeping a cat indoor only, nor am I ending my post by telling you 'I hope you think a little more on this subject', because I credit you with enough intelligence to assume you have made the decision you think is best for your cat.
Now let me make the one that I think is best for mine.

While living here, we will not have outdoor cats simply because the two we have don't care about it.
When we move, we absolutely will have outdoor cats again. I do not personally agree with some cats being kept in.
Some, yes, they do fine. Others, no, it is cruelty.
That is my belief.

I dunno, my mom has had both outdoor and indoor cats and her indoor cats have always, always lived longer. She stopped letting cats outside when she found one dead on the porch.

I think cats should have some time outside...but under supervision or restraint, like dogs are. Letting them just wander the neighborhood is basically gambling with their lives. Anything could happen :/ I wouldn't let a toddler wander around the neighborhood by itself so nor would I let a pet.

It's probably different in America though where there's more dangerous animals, we have wild predators that can easily kill a cat. One time my cat saw a raccoon through the window, and she wanted really bad to go after it. Knowing how she is, I know that she probably would have, and that raccoon would most likely have killed her if she were able to.

Plus there's the issue of cats killing endangered species of birds and such.

Cats absolutely shouldn't be locked up in the house 24/7 but again, they should go outside supervised or restrained just like with dogs...if you can get one of those cat enclosures, or failing that, buy a leash for cats, they make them nowadays.

/ I wouldn't let a toddler wander around the neighborhood by itself so nor would I let a pet.

A cat is not a toddler. I couldn't have had toddlers and let them roam about unsupervised and still had perfectly safe, well toddlers come back to me at the end of the day, for 23 years. I did with cats. Its really not a valid comparison.
I've seen cats who actually know to wait for a clear road before they cross.
The bottom line of this argument is that it all comes down to what you have personally experienced. If you've only ever had horrible things happen to your cats from being outside, because you lived in an dodgy area, then of course you will probably oppose outside cats.
If, like me, you've had many years of positive experiences, you will think differently.
I do personally believe it is cruelty to confine certain cats indoors. Some tolerate it, others would be utterly miserable.

It's probably different in America though where there's more dangerous animals, we have wild predators that can easily kill a cat. One time my cat saw a raccoon through the window, and she wanted really bad to go after it. Knowing how she is, I know that she probably would have, and that raccoon would most likely have killed her if she were able to.

It is, very different. We don't have large predators in the UK. The biggest we have is a fox, and fox attacks on cats are very rare. We also don't have rabies. There are areas of the UK that are truly as quiet as hell, little to no traffic, wide open spaces, and no large predators, and providing a cat is neutered, vaccinated, chipped and treated for parasites, I think these areas are ideal.

Plus there's the issue of cats killing endangered species of birds and such.

Most endangered birds and mammals are losing their battle for survival, in this country at least, due to habitat destruction and hedgerow destruction. Cats account for a tiny percentage of damages compared to that damage we do.

Cats absolutely shouldn't be locked up in the house 24/7

well, we can agree on that.