just remember, drama goes where drama is made. Also have to keep in mind how what happened affected only the parties involved.

True, drama is everywhere. But my concerns aren't just with the affected parties, but with the actions of the admin. It very much seems as if they tried to erase evidence of a dangerous situation, then claimed they were in the right. That makes FA feel like a dangerous place to be.

the admin, as I have read, had been delt with, or has left. one of the two.

But you know that what was done was technically against the TOS and that there was little the staff here could do about the person being stalked. They aren't the police after all.

Against the TOS, sure, but in that specific case, I feel that common sense should have prevailed over TOS. I don't mean they should have enacted vigilante justice, but perhaps something other than deleting a cry for help.

Remember that admin deletions like that doesn't actually result in the data being gone: It's just pulled from public view, the admins still have it.

At the time the journal was made, the guy hadn't done anything actionable on FA yet, (the journal was mostly about things he had done on other sites and what was done here was on the level of repeating information from her user page). All the admins could do was say something on the lines of "OK, he's not a nice guy and he has a history of stalking. If he does anything we'll take that into account."

The instant he was caught doing something here, the banhammer came down.

It's very worrisome, and while I don't WANT to pack up and move, upon learning it, I'm not sure if I want to stick around.

Well the thing is this problem that popped up recently that's causing all this drama didnt even originate on FA. It was Facebook. Secondly, I don't understand why this person didn't call the cops and decided to just post a journal instead. The only reason they banned both accounts was because the fact of they isn't know who was wrong at the time so they needed evidence.

Drama is gonna be on every website.

This. Even if the stalker didn't live in same city/state the local police could do something about it. Or direct the person to whatever agency does handle it.

Well unless the situation would "out" someone as a furry to the general public. Meaning that background checks on the victim by future employers or government agencies would bring up a document that mentions that she owns a fursuit and was stalked via a furry porn site.

Not just the ban, but the deletion of the journals. To me, it looks like admins, who are supposed to handle this sort of thing, mismanaged the situation.

It's not the Drama that bugs me, but that I haven't heard of actions on the admin's part to make any adjustment of policies.

The situation cited was out of the admin's hands since it wasn't activly ON FA for most of it.

But I'm not going anywhere.

But if some part of it was happening on FA, couldn't the admin have done something other than deleting alerts?

When it violated the FA rules, they DID take action (said assaulter made a second account after the user blocked their normal account).

But they also deleted the heads-up from the victim. That seems problematic.

This was described in detail in another journal, though I don't have a link to it.

Anyway, I have a Sofurry, I have an inkbunny, and I have a weasyl... so IF anything happens, I have options.

Basically my reading of what happened is just a lot of drama. Yes there's likely a stalker, but FA can't do anything about them without getting into a really nasty legal web. However, Dragoneer is not a PR person, and should have kept his mouth shut, or at the very least sent someone out to say 'This was against the TOS, we can't do anything about stalkers, please refer to your local PD for help' instead of coming off as careless.

The admin response really did seem like "Nah, we're good. You guys get stalked, take it somewhere else. We're just gonna delete anything you say about it."

Which is basically all they can do, it just needed to be said in a better way than he did. Honestly there's a reason organizations of any size have PR people. You really need to have someone who can explain why an action was taken without pissing off everyone, and I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Dragoneer is NOT a PR person.
In any event, i don't see a reason to leave, drama happens and while the admins came off as uncaring jerks, they're not participating in the stalking, or doing anything except making PR blunders

You can say that's what it seemed like, but in the end, that wasn't what the case was, no.

The admin received a trouble ticket about the stalking from a third-party source. Neither from the victim nor the stalker. Someone outside alerted the staff member to it. I don't have any intel if the victim ever actually sent any TTs at all, m'self, but we can take her word that she did. Either way, TTs come in at a fairly steady click, and nobody can expect the staff to slug through them at any faster a pace then they are humanly capable of. What the admin saw, immediately, was something that was in clear violation of the ToS (the journal) that referenced to a much deeper issue (the stalking) that the Trouble Ticket in question was directed at. An issue that would have to be weighed, discussed, and mulled over.

What happened was the mod segregated the obvious violation that cropped up, and set aside time to discuss the other issues. What everyone involved with the victim's side will tell you happened was "omg, they don't care. they punished her and they deleted all of that hard hitting evidence that proved he was a stalker, and that he should've been dealt with immediately, and now it's gone forever, becuase we can't see it and if we can't see it's gone, I state, matter-of-factly. im leaving"

And that reaction was wrong on so many levels. I'll ignore the jab about not caring. That's just anger talking.

For one, and most importantly to me, I keep hearing 'punished' but all anyone ever talks about is a deleted journal. ... I mean, I hadn't heard anything about a suspension, or even a slap on the wrist. Just the call-out journal was 'deleted.' They didn't bind and gag her, flog her and throw her in prison. Yes, journal deletion it is not very in line with the treatment of a victim... but at that point, she wasn't. She was being the aggressor.

Second, all this 'hard hitting evidence' panned out to be speculation and conjecture. They'll tell you "oh, with to how he acted this last week--" or "with these posts from these other webties--" "you can clearly see that he's stalking her." And the problem with that, is, of course, perspective. Yes, maybe in light of other evidence, probably from sites other than FA, or context gained from an extended period, watching the train wreck.. yes. Yes, he might be a stalker. But, and this brings me to my third point--

Hinging your chief complaint on evidence that you say someone else took away from you and destroyed is like telling a blind man that the twenty he just gave you was a ten. The people who could still see the evidence - the admins, the only people who should've been looking through it - would eventually know right from wrong... but, if alone, you're liable to fool the blind for lack of a frame of reference. ... unless they're like, DareDevil. But yah. If the admins step in and say that it wasn't enough evidence, by itself, I'm willing to believe that the other party is probably exaggerating their problems.

Forth, in my opinion, is, even if you tell me he was doing some naughty things on other sites, then I can only trust that as far as I can throw you up against a brick wall. Our admins are probably not admins there. They won't be able to tell if something is spoofed, or even if it's the same person. Not to a reasonable degree. To damn someone, here, for what their hashtag did somewhere else... and a lot of people bring up Chewfox and Lupin assassin when we start talking about that road. A lot of people remember those two because their banning was very public, after they made very public asses of themselves. What a lot of people don't remember is the real reason they given the boot. (Chewfox for a DDoS [or something] attack, Allan for dodging a suspension) Nothing is ever done without reason, without rational. ... but nobody can remember that for all the drama that they stirred. Just like nobody can believe, or thereby will remember that the stalker in this case was banned because things were dealt with in fashion, just as slow and as methodical as they always are which is just as fast as possibly could be done. Instead they choose to believe that the public outcry - that their outcry - somehow swayed the decision, for better or worse.

The crux of it all, though, is in the simple fact that I've probably already stated - the journal was not deleted. It was pushed out of public eye so that cooler heads could review it, digest it, and make their decision. Every day life hangs in the balance, teetering on just how quickly law can process all the evidence. Do I believe that she could've been stalked and raped before FA made its decision? ... just like any cop drama will tell you, yes. Sometimes there are victims you can't save. But it's not the fault of FA. Do I still believe that she could be stalked and raped even AFTER his ban? ... yes. Yes I do. Especially with her actually leaving the stands before hearing the final ruling. If she wants to matriculate to another site, and he follows... it's gonna this whole canna worms all over again.

Drama doesn't "just happen", pretty sure everyone involved had it coming to them. Ultimately, it is up to you who to talk to and socialize with. A stalker just happens to come across ALL of their information? Pretty sure there is more going on that we're not hearing about. Seriously, how does a stalker find out your address, real name, photos, and overall identity without you revealing it to them? And if you announce such things on a fetish site, well, you know, this happens.

Reading her reaction to this, I feel like she probably handed him SOMETHING he could use (like a photo) and was turned off when she found out he was older, a stalker, or something else she wasn't into. The FA staff is not the best, but why is it their fault for someone giving all of their information to a stranger? The stalker DID get suspended, and I do believe the things he did was WRONG, but she had to have done something herself for this to happen. Otherwise it would never happen.

With that said, dude is still creepy as fuck.

"Somebody died? Well, clearly they were doing something dangerous. I mean, people don't just die! Surely, this only happens to idiots and criminals. Bad things don't just go -looking- for people. We're clearly not considering all sides of the story here! If they didn't want to die, they shouldn't have been walking through the city as that drunk driver was barreling down that corner. They were probably drinking, or distracted by their walky-mans and not paying attention as they should have been!"

This is you. This is what you sound like for defending the actions of a criminal stalker. You're as bad as the people who blame a rape on a pair of short-shorts and being a woman at night. You clearly have no idea of the kinds of crazy shit that happens to regular people who aren't expecting, complying with or engaging with the people stalking them. In no way does one even need to accommodate a stalker beyond being there and having /something/ the stalker finds attractive enough to focus on. You can find a miraculous amount of information on people if you have the know-how, and you don't even need their participation or consent.

Shouldn't have been wearing those short shorts in the first place.

You're comparing drama to death.

Around here, drama is life! ... hahahah! *cough, cough, hack*

No. Seriously. What you're suggesting is that people can defend themselves against death. ... not possible. What is possible is defending yourself from online attacks. If you don't put the information out there, it won't be out there. I admit, personally, that I know there is too much information about who I am floating around on the interwebs. The only thing it hinges on is how malicious the people who have that information are. I don't dare press my luck, either.

You can defend yourself against death. You can brush your teeth and use mouthwash to reduce the number of streptococcus bacteria that causes both tooth decay *and* heart and blood problems. The death bit is only the lowhanging fruit to describe 'no take-backies' when something unpleasant happens to you that you otherwise can't control. Even if, like a person getting into a car that gets hit by a drunk driver, you had *some* hand in exposing yourself to the source.

And sorry, I don't see this as innocent trolling. Trolling would just be "drama." This is more the pattern of a person with a major personality disorder. obsession and just a wee bit of crazy. It wouldn't matter how much information she put out there, because it's clear this individual may be using what little they knew to find more. In which case anyone with any sort of business "should" expect people to out and expose who they are IRL wherever their stalkers please, and however much they can unearth using what they already know. Which can be a lot when you run a side/hobby job and don't have the resources to make your home invisible on Google Earth.

You're lucky nobody has seen fit to stalk you, but that's all it is.

... who said 'trolling?' When I said 'online attacks' I meant everything from trolling to information mining.

And you said it yourself - people should expect businesses to sell information to the highest bidder. ... that's why you don't give those businesses that information. That's what -I- said to do. It's not easy, and frankly, I already said that I'm lucky nobody has seen fit to stalk me. But you know who's fault that is? Well, it certainly isn't FA's.

Well I'll be sticking around.
I have a place on Inkbunny and I'm tempted to make one on Weasyl too, but I'll be staying here anyway.
I won't be holding back if I see the admins do something else stupid though, and if I get nuked for trying to help someone or by pointing out their coverups, then so be it, I've got other places to go.

I think the admins were in the right deleting the journal and then banning both people.

As far as I've heard, the person being stalked didn't do the right things about the stalker. She could've just blocked the guy and told the admins privately "This guy's posting stories about my real life information." Instead, she made a journal stating his account and went against the TOS in doing so.

I'm still here.

It's not that I like or hate it here -- I'm rather neutral about it.
Every year, a shit-scented drama storm or four pops up on FA.
The smart ones open the windows, point the swamp coolers out the windows on one side and let the stuff air out.

FA is far from the best, but as long as I can access things, view them comfortably enough, and save them to my hard drive before the next shitstorm invariably hits and causes people to pack up and move out of the low-lying hinterlands of the internet, I'm okay.

I still have alternate sources to view things -- Inkbunny is slowly growing on me. SoFurry probably won't grow on me -- I'm still bitter about what used to be YiffStar (hated the name, but liked the focus on writing it used to have). I even have one of those Weasyl things that I don't think I've looked at but a few times since they opened up. I follow things on Tumblr, but they get lost among the sea of ReblogIfYa.

Whatever your decision is, it's your decision and not mine. I respect that.

Just let us know where you go! I rather enjoy your work. Be a shame to lose it.

Unfortunately, and I'm not saying this to excuse his actions, crazies exist everywhere. If you participate on the internet in anything, there's access to your information available to /somebody/. And the more personal you are, the more unintentionally knowledge you can make a stalker. I know there are even stalkers that invest in software for facial recognition, just so not even camwhores are safe from anonymously showing off on the internet.

It makes me angry, but until we either make concessions in laws to govern rules on criminal stalking over the internet or invent a button to seek and destroy assholes over the internet, all we can do is control what information about ourselves we allow online. Because who knows when the next 'FurAffinity security leak' will happen?

... eh. Stay? I would like that, yah.