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Respect
12 years ago
General
Always open for commissions. Stream:http://piczel.tv/watch/Foxena
This is also hearkening back to an earlier journal I had. 
fringedog directed me toward this article and its a good read for both genders as it gives a good idea of what women go through subconciously and where men can fall completely flat in social interactions.
http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/g.....t-being-maced/
one point in particular from the above article is something I have had to deal with alot since being a single female again:
"The fourth point: If you fail to respect what women say, you label yourself a problem.
There’s a man with whom I went out on a single date—afternoon coffee, for one hour by the clock—on July 25th. In the two days after the date, he sent me about fifteen e-mails, scolding me for non-responsiveness. I e-mailed him back, saying, “Look, this is a disproportionate response to a single date. You are making me uncomfortable. Do not contact me again.” It is now October 7th. Does he still e-mail?
"Yeah. He does. About every two weeks.
"This man scores higher on the threat level scale than Man with the Cockroach Tattoos. (Who, after all, is guilty of nothing more than terrifying bad taste.) You see, Mr. E-mail has made it clear that he ignores what I say when he wants something from me. Now, I don’t know if he is an actual rapist, and I sincerely hope he’s not. But he is certainly Schrödinger’s Rapist, and this particular Schrödinger’s Rapist has a probability ratio greater than one in sixty. Because a man who ignores a woman’s NO in a non-sexual setting is more likely to ignore NO in a sexual setting, as well.
"So if you speak to a woman who is otherwise occupied, you’re sending a subtle message. It is that your desire to interact trumps her right to be left alone. If you pursue a conversation when she’s tried to cut it off, you send a message. It is that your desire to speak trumps her right to be left alone. And each of those messages indicates that you believe your desires are a legitimate reason to override her rights.
"For women, who are watching you very closely to determine how much of a threat you are, this is an important piece of data."
Recently I got called a bully for ignoring someone that made me feel increasingly uncomfortable. This part of the article sums up my feelings perfectly.
fringedog directed me toward this article and its a good read for both genders as it gives a good idea of what women go through subconciously and where men can fall completely flat in social interactions.http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/g.....t-being-maced/
one point in particular from the above article is something I have had to deal with alot since being a single female again:
"The fourth point: If you fail to respect what women say, you label yourself a problem.
There’s a man with whom I went out on a single date—afternoon coffee, for one hour by the clock—on July 25th. In the two days after the date, he sent me about fifteen e-mails, scolding me for non-responsiveness. I e-mailed him back, saying, “Look, this is a disproportionate response to a single date. You are making me uncomfortable. Do not contact me again.” It is now October 7th. Does he still e-mail?
"Yeah. He does. About every two weeks.
"This man scores higher on the threat level scale than Man with the Cockroach Tattoos. (Who, after all, is guilty of nothing more than terrifying bad taste.) You see, Mr. E-mail has made it clear that he ignores what I say when he wants something from me. Now, I don’t know if he is an actual rapist, and I sincerely hope he’s not. But he is certainly Schrödinger’s Rapist, and this particular Schrödinger’s Rapist has a probability ratio greater than one in sixty. Because a man who ignores a woman’s NO in a non-sexual setting is more likely to ignore NO in a sexual setting, as well.
"So if you speak to a woman who is otherwise occupied, you’re sending a subtle message. It is that your desire to interact trumps her right to be left alone. If you pursue a conversation when she’s tried to cut it off, you send a message. It is that your desire to speak trumps her right to be left alone. And each of those messages indicates that you believe your desires are a legitimate reason to override her rights.
"For women, who are watching you very closely to determine how much of a threat you are, this is an important piece of data."
Recently I got called a bully for ignoring someone that made me feel increasingly uncomfortable. This part of the article sums up my feelings perfectly.
By the way, thanks for spreading an important lesson, Fox.
I'm sure "Mr. Email" there is a big asshole in other aspects of his life, too.
The worst thing is, he'll never get better :P You can't tell a guy like that, "You're being an ass, stop it." No ... he's got to figure out on his own, "Oh wow, other people don't like me, because they have feelings that are different from mine".
Bleeeeh.
People suck :) Let's all move to an island.
Instead of "She's not saying: 'YOU, as a man, are a rapist' just 'I don't know, so I should be on guard'"
With The following: "She's not saying: 'YOU, as a black person, are a mugger' just 'I don't know, so I should be on guard'"
It is blatantly sexist, and propagates an incorrect phobia of strangers, promotes the incorrect idea that women are raped and assault by strangers in alleyways as the primary form of sexual violence, and turns men this incorrect image of being the exclusive perpetrators of sexual violence, and women as the exclusive victims of sexual violence. This is incorrect, as:
1) The large majority of rape and assault is done to victims by people they know fairly to very well (acquaintance rape, etc)
2) Men and Women are raped and under sexual assault / molestation at near parity
3) Men are the victims of an overwhelming majority of all stranger violence besides sexual violence.
4) 40% of all rapists are women.
These are huge, huge concepts that make Schrodinger's Rapist merely a tool to demonize men, as opposed to a legitimate concept.
I'd recommend reading
http://oratorasaurus.tumblr.com/pos.....es-get-over-it
http://oratorasaurus.tumblr.com/pos.....omen-and-men-a (title goes to an academic study)
http://oratorasaurus.tumblr.com/pos.....exual-violence (title goes to an academic study)
I have been raped.
I think I can just stop the conversation there.
But that's beside the point. The point of the essay provided was to point out to any man reading it that this is a very real concern shared by at least many women if not most and then to help provide means to help them to recognize that pressing the issue is never going to be in their favor and how to minimize how high they rate on the potential rapist meter. Personally I think that the essay ended on a bit of a negative tone when it could have ended on a more positive one. That if men show that they respect this viewpoint and what the women want and are patient then eventually they may be lowered enough on the potential rapist meter that the woman might be okay having a conversation.
And since I'm lazy and don't want to do a second comment just for the comment at fox's original journal entry I'll state that here. The way my mind sees it there reaches a certain point of popularity where the amount of time needed to properly respond to everyone exceeds the amount of time available to respond to people. Thus to be ignored is simply a statement of "I don't have the time to deal with you, sorry." Though the particular case sounds more of a "I don't want to deal with you and hope you get the hint." Either way, someone calling someone else a bully for ignoring them is probably the kind of person that should be avoided anyway, regardless of the gender of either party.
The point I was making about bringing up the whole "seeing all black people as criminals" was explicitly aimed at that whole comment of "This is a real line of thought that men should just get over women having". Reread what you just said in regards to the point that I just made. The way that you've worded it in defense of this article, the article of which implies the simple act of a man talking to a woman who is a stranger immediately means the woman is terrified that the man will rape them, means that it is completely acceptable for white people to consider all black people who they don't know potential criminals, and that black people should "just get over it" and "behave in a way that respects the fears of whites that they'll be the victim of a crime". If someone wrote that, there would be an OUTRAGE because that's ridiculous and inappropriate! That's what I'm trying to say.
As much as I despise certain members of my gender, I would prefer it if society did not demonize all men because of them. And fiddling with the statistics doesn't help the subject one way or another.
This needs to be understood by more people.
what´s more important is that people woman and man listen to each other when they say something
then comes the respect and to your exdate some men are just idiots
However, with the increasing number of cellphones and other devices this part alone kinda scares me
"So if you speak to a woman who is otherwise occupied, you’re sending a subtle message. It is that your desire to interact trumps her right to be left alone."
so, basically don't talk to anyone EVER because everyone is always busy with something, be it listening to music or texting non stop every second of every waking hour.
so how are people supposed to make friends since you cannot make the initial contact because interrupting their 'activity', which can be anything at all, is grounds for being thought a bad person and denying them their rights?
sorry that entry was making sense to me until that one line, that line scares me honest.
I know that makes it harder to meet strangers, but the context here is you are complete strangers. If you are looking to make friends, meeting them in a setting designed for it works better. Like a bar, or club. Or a social outing with current friends, meeting their friends.
The point here is respecting someone who is actively trying to be left alone, the subtle message can be dismissed if it was innocent, or you missed their signs. The second message that was after that is the more important one, if they say no, or otherwise directly say to leave them alone and you persist, that is the problem. People won't think of you as a jerk for simply saying Hi, if you missed the signs that they didn't want to talk. But if you persist in trying to talk when they don't respond, OR tell you no, that is when the problem arises.
Which is simply why I have absolutely no friends outside of the internet because person to person interaction is so very intimidating for me in a 1v1 atmosphere. If there is more, or the person I want to try to interact with has a group of friends I'm intimidated all the way out of even considering interaction.
Thats true, the respect of leavin someone alone if they are obviously wanting to be left alone. but its hard to separate 'leave me alone' from 'I'm just nervous to be out and about, but I want to make friends somehow.' the second one being myself. I want to make friends but good god its just, talking to someone gives me the crawls, and if i do not have a topic of conversation in mind its 1000x worse.
-now back under my rock >.>
However, there are many cases of abusive women that use the nature of how they are viewed to get away with quite a bit. In defending the nature of genders. The law really favors the ladies on many regards to what they can do and can't in various mediums of interaction. And while I understand your point of view is very right to be of respect, as should all people in giving and receiving that. The male gender is given a bit of a short stick in regards to many things.
I am not trying to seek or undermine the issue you raised, but merely offer that with genders, it is not always this way.
I am sorry you have had it rough with folks like this. No one should endure this, genders aside. But that it seems men to not speak up as much on this kind of in my own views. It may not happen as often, or just not be talked about. I won't say, as my own views are very jaded given interactions to both genders as someone very cynical for a plausable reason.
I do think that a lot of this does need to be said first off.
But there is a point about accusing everyone of potentially being a rapist. This however could just be a unfortunate case of wording.
I do think that people should hold a neutral stance with an equal possibility of said person being a rapist or a perfectly harmless person. To me it seems that the blogger definitely had a slight bias towards the negative side of life. I would say that there is nothing wrong with a slight look towards the darkness, but when it does send out another message to always accuse someone of the worst possible things ever based on color of their skin, religion, gender, etc. there is a problem.
It is slightly unwise, to me anyway, to assume the worst in people, and even more unwise to not be prepared. (i.e. Have a means of personal defense on you no matter what happens)
Which brings me to the next point. Though it is unwise to expect the worst out of that guy on the tram, don't expect the best either. People might be inherently good, but that doesn't mean they aren't familiar with evil. I make it a point to carry a knife on me at all times and to keep up on some martial arts. Even when I am greeting some of the people I knew since high school, I take a pocket knife with me.
But to the point on where this applies (and pardon me while I take some liberties to the point) :
(Originally)The fourth point: If you fail to respect what women say, you label yourself a problem.
(Edited) The fourth point: If you fail to respect what a person says, you label yourself as a problem.
Yes the guy's a dick and a creeper, you made the right move blocking him and this does explain your position (albeit a bit awkwardly [again if you ask me]) clearly.
Yes the man in the blogger's post is a creeper and she has every right to be wary of the man.
But I have been in an abusive relationship with a girl, and she didn't respect what I said, so I walked away.
This advice about if they do not respect what you say, they are a problem is golden and should be applied to all people period.