I AM REALLY EXCITED TO READ THIS SO IM GONNA COMMENT NOW AND THEN READ IT AND THEN COMMENT WITH MY THOUGHTS

OMG THAT IS THE MOST ADORABLE THING EVER! YOU ARE SO ADORABLE

flkjasdkfhsakdfkshf ksdf ;-; <333 I JUST GOT CALLED ADORABLE

CAN NOT COMPUTE

*Explodes into Fox confetti* ~

I'm very much in line with you here I'd love to be non-gendered myself, but physically this is rather impossible when you like sex as well, I'm bio-female, with a preference for male pronouns, as far as body goes I'm pretty much 100% there, would like my boobs gone but I dont mind the lower bits, for the same reasons, would I prefer a penis over these? yes, but I'm not gunna go as far as packing and such to have that happen, besides, I'm super subby anyway so it works for me for pronouns I gotta agree with you I tend to prefer male pronouns 'he' and 'his' as they seem to have less... strength behind him less force about what you must be in my mind, mostly do to my dad I think, yet I can't stand being called a 'man' for the same reasons it puts to much emphasis mentally on what it should be because of what I've heard told to my brother, and myself when I came out many times 'just be a man'


I understand alot of what your feeling, Mouse is often a reflection of the fact my mood often changes, mostly he's seen male, sometimes full on female, and other times I have him drawn inter-gendered being having both male bits and breasts of no breasts and girly bits

if I'm being 100% honest the closeist to what I desire would be a 'c-boy' even though I HATE the term, since the word sounds so derogatory to me because physically its the least obviously gendered, there's nothing blatantly in your face screaming ' I am this '


for a good number of years I knew I was 'off' and openly identified as trans-male, but even then I didnt feel right, and things such as [sorry if this is tmi] orgasms would make me physically sick as they had the force me to deal with my body, once I came to terms and understood I wasn't just trans-male but genderqueer and non-gendered this lessened greatly, it still happens and it will take me a while to get over it I think, as its a mental trauma I forced on myself I felt like it was wrong of me to be trans, but still be okay with parts of my physical body, and to enjoy those parts, I felt like people wouldn't accept me for wanting to be both, and neither at the same time, eventually I talked with my mother and, I'm incredibly lucky, as she and most of my family readily accepted me and my identity.

Attraction wise I still call myself gay, as I like gay men, as you said, if I find out a guy is straight I'm less attracted to him, which makes it difficult to find someone accepting enough to date me, but I can't help that, so I just keep moving and trying to find the right person


aha, rambling. TLDR. Your far from alone, and if you ever wanna talk, even though you don't know me that much [apart from my word vomit above] I'm an ear who understands what your feeling pretty well, and I'd be happy to just listen if you needed it ever

FA is the most accepting family/community I've ever been in. (As long as you're not a hateful person. then they want to slice you open with a flux capacitor. )


I like the idea that men should be allowed to be more "Feminine" for lack of a better term. Men can like cute things! They can like the color yellow, or pink, they can like clothing, they can dye their hair, they can wear cover up so they don't have any visible blemishes, they can do anything girls can. Just like I thoroughly support and believe women can be assertive, strong, protective, and dominant individuals. owo

You should cut your hair again if you want to. ;-; If someone asks who you know is an asshole and wont understand, just explain that you like how easy it is to maintain. :D I always LOVED my hair being short, and I've been thinking of cutting it again! I just want to wait until I lose more weight in my face, since I found my chin/cheeks look better when framed with long hair after I gained some weight, than they used to when exposed from short hair. XD

You know, something I noticed is that people act like cisgender expressive people are just ALL PINK SKIRTS AND DRESSES ALL THE TIME OH MY GOD LIPSTICK AND MAKEUP AND PRETTY FLOWERS AND SHOES, or LOOK AT MY BITCHIN FOOTBALL JERSEY AND MY VESTS AND MY BIG ASS BELT BUCKLE AND MY COMBAT BOOTS. XD I find most people are /REALLY/ gender fluid with clothing expression without even knowing it! :D Like how most of the girls I know like wearing stuff like band tshirts and leather jackets, or the guys like wearing open toed shoes and tight fitting vneck shirts, etc~ owo I know for myself, when it comes to clothing I'd definitely fall into the category of gender fluid, because I love combining male and female clothing. Like male jacket styles, with female shirts, and male shoes/pants, with female bags, etc. :D Because sometimes the female stuff might be more colorful, or have prettier designs, but the male stuff is more comfy, and has more utility like extra pockets, or hidden zippers. >w<

I can definitely understand the thin androgyny thing. >-< Most of the people I know who visually seem androgynous are tiny little fuckers. 8| Makes it hard for someone overweight to feel like it's attainable. x.x; But I do know certain types of clothing, haircuts, binders, etc can really help for that :D
But it might be totally doable to change your bodytype if you do stuff like work out a lot. :D Most female bodytypes seem to get bigger shoulders, and stronger overall builds when they've got a lot of muscle mass. owo Maybe try lifting weights?


I can understand the pronouns a lot. ._.; My parent was really...weird with pronouns, and very closed minded and rude about certain genders and pretty much every sexuality but straight, so sometimes the whole this or that pronoun thing discourages me. x.x;
But if you'd like I can try to remember to refer to you as Shi~
Although I tend to prefer the gender neutral pronouns They/They're/Their/Them, because they come more naturally to me. XD;;; I have a hard time organizing people's pronouns when there's SO MANY. x.x; Like, Ze, Zyr, Zim, Xe, Xyr, Xem, Shi, Shem, Ye's, Yir, Yem, Ei/Ey, Eir/Eyr, Eim/Em, ETC. x.x; I can't even remember the other ones I've heard/had friends want to use. >-<;


Ohhh so you're a Demisexual? :D That's really awesome. And I TOTALLY know what you mean on body views. I'm disgusted with myself for my bodytype, but I find all of my friends regardless of weight/shape to be gorgeous. ._.; It's...really bad. >-<; And sometimes I feel awful for it. I shame myself for things I encourage in others. >->; Talk about hypocrisy!



Hmmm...You could always make it a special request for anyone you commission/do art trades with to try drawing Nire in a more androgynous way? :D It might be a good way for you to ease into it, without having to feel like you're throwing it in people's faces, and being self conscious. ^-^

OH OH OH and on the note of clothing:


Male clothes have more bitchin designs. 8| They're always so badass. With like, fire breathing dragons guarding a hoarde of gold plated monster trucks. LOL

...And I want to append my previous posts:

I have to say, if there's ever a topic that I can relate to it's body shaming. I literally spend every meal thinking about how fat I'll be at the end of it, or every time I sit down to do commissions I think about all the calories I'm not burning. It's a really horrible way to live, and I wish so hard that I could get out of that mindset.

The worst part I think, is that I KNOW I wont be satisfied with being 120 and curvy with a small tummy, If I go down that road of drastically losing weight, I wont be happy until I'm 100 and wearing size 4 jeans. ._.; Even though honestly, my fursona's bodytype is the one I find most attractive for /myself/. Which is mildly curvy, with a set of strong legs, a nice ass (I got graced with like, perfect ass genetics. XD My whole family has the world's best butts ever. 8| ) and b cup breasts with a flat stomach but no ribs/hip bones showing through the skin. (I'm naturally a C cup, and right now I'm a D/DD, not sure which one...but I hate it. I hate them so much. I want them to be SO MUCH SMALLER. ;-; And I can never understand how women want bigger breasts, because they're a hassle. You can't fit in any nice clothing, they're in the way and you can't see your feet, you can't ever not wear a bra or else LOOKOUT GRAVITY, and you always feel like straight men, and gay women are staring at them. >-<;; I hate it. I'd much rather have smaller breasts on a smaller frame. I feel like it looks...prettier? I guess. It also allows for a wider range of clothing options, and if you want to be androgynous, all you have to do is get a binder, and some non curved shirts, and you wont scream OH SHIT IT'S A LAAADY. >->; Also makes for awesome male cosplays. :D )

And I have to say, I tend to draw my fursona as the representation of myself, but the way I WANT to be, something to attain and work for, not how I am now. ._.; I tried honestly drawing a representative character with my current bodytype,I almost cried. x.x It's really hard to not be afraid/ashamed of yourself when it's so deep set in your mind that you'll never be pretty enough, or smart enough, or talented enough, or strong enough.

Even when I can look in the mirror, and honest to god see that I have a BEAUTIFUL face. And sometimes I catch glimpses of myself where I realize I'm really pretty. It just kills me though that it's so hard, SO BLOODY HARD to keep it in mind, and not think that when my husband looks at me, he sees what I see inside, and not what I am on the outside. Even though he's the most supportive and wonderful thing in my life, and the amount of times he's told me that he loves my smile, or that I have the most beautiful eyes, or anything...For some reason it's hard to believe him.


Oh my god I used your journal as a rant/emo post. i am so sorry. ;-;

I'm extremely tired, too much so to read everyone's comments, so forgive me if I repeat anything that's already been said.

"Gender Identity:
In my brain, I want to be non-gendered.
I've had few discussions where I've been explained that my shy/loving/fearful nature SHOULDN'T to be associated strictly to "female-ness."
I have met some very sweet, shy, kind, and loving men, so..
And I don't like the thought that only men can be attributed to being strong, aggressive, etc...
If I am to assume (hope desperately) that this is true, I want to be a genderless being."

As I've said before, that's just your family/society forcing gender roles on you and everyone else. Men tend to be more stereotypically masculine because it's expected of them and they're seen as "weird" or "wrong" if they don't, and the same with women and femininity (in fact maybe even moreso, because "women have to keep their place" and misogyny and rape culture and all that but that's a whole other discussion). The only thing that determine's a person's gender is their own personal feelings. That's it. Nothing else. Nothing. If you feel genderless, you are genderless. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.


"Gender Expression:
I express myself as a female ONLY to avoid conflict and avoid drawing weird attention to myself.
I'm growing out my hair because the compliments keep rolling in, even though I WANT my short hair back.

Right now I have the style of a plain, 50 year old woman. (Shawls and plain-colored, loose shirts and pants.)

If I were more comfortable being myself I'm sure I'd be all over the place. I love vests, suits, kilts, long dresses, ties, painting my nails, hating make-up...etc....Which might make me gender-fluid? Although I love the idea of being androgynous....so there's some confusion there."

Just a heads up, biologically female people can get away with androgyny more than biologically male people. For a commonplace example, you see more women wearing jeans than you do men wearing skirts. You could easily dress more masculinely without attracting too much unwanted attention.

As for the hair thing, speaking from experience: I've received just as many compliments on my 3/4 buzzed head as I did on the two and a half feet of never-been-cut hair I had 18 months ago. Even from all my super feminine fashionista friends and relatives. Even from my hairdresser aunt who adored my long hair. So I wouldn't worry about that.

Changing your appearance wouldn't make you genderfluid. Your gender expression might be fluid, but true genderfluidity means that at any given time you identify as one gender (or mix, or lack of gender) and the next you identify as another. Could be over the course of a month, a week, or several times in a day. For me it's situational. For example, I identify as female or neutral (mostly neutral) in most settings, but male in sexual/romantic situations, and I don't like to draw myself as female. If you consistently identify as one, neither, or the same mix of genders, then you're not genderfluid.

"Biological Sex:
I am female. Very, female. (big boobs and butt and thighs..), very tiny hand and feet.. yeck... :(
I'd remove my breasts if I could.
Interestingly enough I don't mind my...lower female bits. They're compact and non-intrusive.
Do I LIKE my lower lady bits? No...,,do I like having tools to feel pleasure though? Absolutely.
I'd also love to have nice strong shoulders and arms.....hmm....
I's also like to be thin to help with the androgyny.. ( I know this sounds terrible, but seriously. Look up androgyny on tumblr or google and everyone's thin. :( )"

That's actually very common. My boyfriend is very, very, very adamant about being male. To the point where being identified as female can send him into a deep depression, depending on who it comes from and how confrontational they are about it. It makes him extremely uncomfortable and he HATES his chest. But he's perfectly fine with keeping his female parts downstairs. Especially considering that hormone treatments can partially solve the problem and surgical procedures are no where near advanced enough yet. But yet, when we're being intimate, sometimes he does suddenly have bouts of dysphoria regarding his lower parts. He doesn't LIKE them, but he doesn't always MIND them, and he doesn't want to change them just yet.

And yes, you're right, being thin does help with androgyny. That's scientifically true. It's because biologically female people naturally have a higher body fat percentage, with most of it collecting in the hips and breasts. The more fat you lose, the less your hips and chest are accentuated, and the less feminine you appear. Granted some people still appear feminine no matter how much they lose, but it does make it easier (especially if you decide to bind your chest, jesus christ)

"Preferred Gender Pronoun(s):
Any really. I don't really have a strong feeling or opinion about this.
Although it would be really neat for me to hear "shi" but I'm not sure why?
Does hearing myself being referred to as a woman/female make me wince sometimes?
Yes. BUT I feel that is more about being ingrained and indoctrinated with my fathers misogyny, than anything else."

Just something to consider, shi/hir work in text but don't really sound any different out loud. Some other neutral pronouns are xe/xir/xeir, ze/zir/zeir, fae/faer (I believe viraldivinity is using those now), and the good old-fashioned they/them/their (don't let anyone tell you they can't use that because it's grammatically incorrect, because a) it's not and b) your comfort and feelings are more important than grammar).

Also if you want me to use different pronouns, just let me know! Even if it is because of your dad and not your gender. You deserve to be comfortable, regardless of the reason.

"Attraction:
First and foremost- I am attracted to personality/love, and whether they are attracted to me/capable of being attracted to me.
I am not one to really crush on a particular body-type or gender.
My ideals for my own body and my own looks are restricted only to myself.
I have to emphasize the whole mutual=attraction thing is huge with me though...

Ex: If I see a picture of a really "hot" fit girl/guy- the strength of my attraction will vary depending on the info about that person I get.
If the guy is gay=no attraction whatsoever. If the girl is straight=no attraction whatsoever. Weird huh?
Say....if I find a person who is totally into BBW's ( I am fat lol), I will prolly be very attracted to that person. XD"

It sounds to me like you're demisexual and bi/panromantic. If you don't know what that means, it just means you need to have a deep emotional connection to someone in order to be sexually attracted to them, and that you're capable of having romantic feelings for men and women (or even genderless, bigendered, genderfluid, etc people)

Hope that helps a little <3 And you know my Skype is always open! If you get too nervous, you're welcome to send me offline messages, and I can read them when I sign on.

everything sparta has said!

I don't really have much to offer as far as this subject goes...simply because I can't relate to it I suppose?

BUT, I really enjoyed reading it and love that you feel comfortable enough in this community to share (even if it's only with a select few). After reading this I feel as though I know you just a tad better and your stance on this sort of thing. It's great to think things out and write them down because oftentimes you can hammer out your thoughts so you can better explain them to people in the future.

All in all, thanks for posting! I enjoyed getting to know the person behind the amazing art a little bit better~

I agree with a lot of this. I have conflict quite often with my gender alignment and expression there in. I appreciate you sharing!

I have a friend who's accepted that he wants to go through with attaining transgenderness....and it's honestly very helpful to me to see some one identify with what they want and go after it.

Though I come into the problem I don't know what I want to do.

But seriously don't feel ashamed of any of this! I know it's easy to feel ashamed or be drug down...but try not to be, it's awesome you've shared this and I wish I was more awake and not watching The Road to El Dorado...so I could produce a more indepth and compitent response.

Thank you so much for posting! I feel very included and appreciated when an artists posts something like this, even though I know they're not posting to me personally, it's sharing just that much more about themselves.

About the androgyny thing; yeah, most photographed androgynous folk tend to be thinner. HOWEVER - I have personally met a /lot/ of heavier folk where I had to do a double take. I like to flatter myself that if I had the proper binder, I could pass, but I'm a pretty big biological female myself, so I feel your pain there! AND OH MAN do I love workin' a vest and pinstripes.

I would also like to add to the pronouns list that Sparta shared up there; I personally prefer ey/em/eir (although I don't mind if people use she or he, really). For a while I was accepting shi/hir, but again, it's identical to she/her out loud, and I found that if I asked folk online to use it, the immediate assumption would be that I was a hermaphrodite (and a number of those folks were convinced - incorrectly - that that made me a mindless sex monster).

In the end, it's all about how you identify personally! Don't be afraid to put things on your profile or in a journal about what pronouns you like, any situational stuff, or so, and don't be afraid to correct people! Most of the time folk will be MORE embarrassed knowing they were carrying on using the wrong pronoun.

I know what you mean! I'm not gender fluid myself(I am so tots female), but I have dated/known many people who are, and as far as I'm concerned it should be totally normal. You are who you are inside, and what you look like on the outside may not be how you feel, but you should be able to express that outwardly. I bet you'd look absolutely just as adorable in a suit as in a cocktail dress. :)

Sounds a bit like this: http://chaoslife.findchaos.com/agender-agenda Maybe?

For what it's worth, I understand the fears you have. It's really scary to step outside of what society has deemed "appropriate" for the owner of a certain set of genitals. I'm a trans man myself, and I've had that fear (hell, I have that fear).

I think the trick is to figure out just how much that fear is going to prevent you from doing stuff. Those other people don't live your life. You're the one that has to.

Whatever happens though, I hope you find a place where you can be comfortable.

I hope being out about it and talking has helped you become a little more comfortable with it. Everyone has the right to feel comfortable with themselves no matter what gender they identify with (if any or all) or what gender(s) (if any or all) they're attracted to.

Baby steps are good. Sometimes it can take people a little while to adjust to actually acting on their feelings, especially if they've kept them bottled up for so long.

I can't say I understand your particular situation since mine is a little different, but I'm always free to chat if you ever just wanna talk through stuff. Don't hesitate to send me a note! It might take me a bit to reply (work and all) but I will within a day or so :)

^ Basically all of this. <3

I think you just expressed in words alot of my thoughts about myself. Including growing my hair out because of the compliments I get from it. I have to keep it bound tho or it sets off the nerve issue in my face.

You've really given me some food for thought, I must say. possible TMI ahead? Sharing because I do feel comfy on FA expressing myself. It is a little family.
I personally have always loved the fact that I have a small chest because it can kinda' go unnoticed, which I love. I pick on it all the time, but I really do love being a size B and the fact that I weigh more now and they show a bit more bugs the crap outta' me. To the point where hubby likes to play with them and I've smacked his hand away, wanting to pretend they don't exist. I usually go around cleaning the house with no shirt on, just pants, like a guy would because why the heck can't I? It's comfortable!
I do love having the rest of the equipment though and I flaunt that with no shame. LOL
I never thought that there are more options to call oneself other than just straight or gay or bi, because I was brought up with the thought of only being straight or gay. Makes me wonder if I'm not maybe a something.
Whatever you decide you want to be, I'll go with it. :D

It is really Heartening to see others open in a very public way. You are a sweet heart. That is just the feeling i get from reading and seeing you around the community.

KEEP BEING YOU!

My mate Draze and I are both pretty androgynous, and both around 200lbs or so. I think if anything, we're actually a bit more androgynous because we aren't thin. For me, being more thin would only emphasize my hips and waist, which would make me look more feminine, and emphasize his relative lack of a posterior, making him appear more masculine.

Sure, for some folks, it works better because they're thin, but not us.






Have you seen any of the stories about chakats? Not just the artwork, which I've seen a lot of people fetishize, but the stories. Hermaphrodite creatures with natural empathy? I think you might like them.