Dear lord I hope that is never me

I suppose I could have wrote "Artist" instead of just "fursuit maker"
I think all creative people have this problem

Yeah, I've encountered this a few times as a 2D artist as well.

Maybe once a month or so....

I agree with you 100%

I've had this problem with hoodies. I get that people want CalagaryCosplay hoodies but I'm not them, and I never wanted to be them. Ever.

Who would want them anyway? They'll just steal your design and sell it on mass. :P

Exactly. And stealing their (stolen) designs just doesn't sit right with me. I wish people understood this better.

I agree completely, that is extremely rude. Plus, lets say that the maker DID accept this and replicated another makers style.. Im sure that the other fursuit maker would be upset that someone replicated their own unique style.

Similar to someone tracing someone else's work and coloring it differently if that makes sense

Yes! Exactly!

and that happens to me with drawing art too. exactly the same problem.

Ugh I can't count how many times people have said "Can you make your _____ look just like *insert other fursuit maker*'s ______?"

OMG can I link this post in a journal? All of this is totally spot on.

Sure, go ahead :3

Furrehs...

My understanding is that if I commission an artist, it's because I like their style. If you like MFY's style, save up until you have MFY'S money and commission them. If I commission a WILDPUP suit, it's because I like her style, not because she's cheap and and the best I can deal with.

I like a wide variety of artists from Chibi Marrow (who is well-known) to people like FelisRandomis and DeerKnight who aren't as popular but have unique styles and interpretations of my characters (which make me laugh or get sentimental). I like what I like and want what I want and if i pay Temperance for a suit, I want a suit in Temperance's style.

Gonna need the fandom to grow up a little and get real.

I think a lot of time it's the waiting and saving up thing that is the problem. It's not just furries, but the whole current generation of smart phones and wiki-how and google instant answers. When people want something, they want it NOW.

Yes, I know you want a fursuit and I know you want it cheap and fast and good.... but you can't have all three. So if you go looking for a cheaper maker with a short queue and asking them to make it like a popular maker with a long queue and high prices you will be sadly disappointed.

Nothing like feeling like a second fiddle amirite

Ewwwww people do that?

I mean I can understand showing a maker a picture of another suit and going'can you make the ears this big?' or 'can you make the dropped crotch kinda like this?' not trying to make the maker copy another style.

Sadly, all the time.

I am okay with people sending me photos of fursuits because they have poor art skills/vocabulary skills to explain what they want, but saying "I want the marking to stop mid-thigh like this" is different from saying "I want it to look like Latin Vixen's cougar here"

That is why you should never "settle" for a suit maker. If you want a certain suit maker's style, you go with that suit maker then and wait for them to re-open for more slots, plain and simple. :U It is insulting to ask any suit maker to make the suit look like another fursuit maker's. You should be commissioning them because you like their style!!! Not because that was the only person that had slots available.

I agree. I view fursuits like tattoos, be darn sure what you want and be darn sure you want it.

Haha, too bad I have seen a lot of people settle on tattoos as well because they don't have the patience to decide what they REALLY want.

Then they get it removed at painful expense six months later, or you break up with the guy who's name or face you tattooed on your ass. :)

But without tattoo mistakes and regrets we wouldn't have great reality programing like this: http://www.aetv.com/bad-ink

Hey, we all need someone to laugh at, right? Without people like that, who would make us feel better when we're feeling low? :)

Yeah but sadly people are just impatient, so they "settle" with someone else. And then expect this suit maker to make their suit in the style of such-and-such, which is not fair nor right. Patience is a virtue, which sadly a lot of people do not have these days.

Since I doubt anyone will accommodate such an audacious and inappropriate request, we can hope at least they will take it as a life lesson.

Precisely! My dad actually told me that if your going to make a big decision like getting a tattoo or something then you should wait a year and then see if you still want it.

Your dad is a smart man. IMHO, if it's really as important as you say/think it is, it's worth the wait.

I always roll my eyes at the 'tweens' on tv that want to get married at 17, and I keep saying 'if you're as confident as you say you are in your love, isn't it worth a year?"

this this this this this
never go with someone because theyre cheaper
never go with someone because their wait is shorter
find who you like the best
and go with them

The whole "So I have settled on you" part would be pretty insulting. I really hope you don't go through that too often because would wear down on any artist or builder.

I've never understood that. Every maker I've gone to, I went to for their style. That's what drew me to them, their signature style.

Some people need slapping. And if someone did this to you, I don't understand why. Your suits are really cool, creative and unique in and of themselves. But I've had this before. My fave is when someone asks me to draw stuff in anime style. Like, nothing against anime, but... Really, one look at my gallery should tell someone that's probably not even a reasonable request.

Wow.... so you did a gift art and they just backlashed it was not like someone else's? Dude... it is a GIFT. They should be grateful they got some free art!! What a bunch of bullshiz... I mean really.... what a sorry SOB.

Oh man that happened to me the other day!! I drew this guy's character because it sounded funny ( a pure white neatfreak alpaca ) and keeping in mind the character had NO reference images, and the public description aside from white llama didn't describe the character's appearance at ALL, I drew kinda what I felt like. His immediate response was "my character doesn't have hooves, his hair is poofier than that, he'd never wear the color red, he's more humanoid than that" I was so fucking mad. I replied with something snarky as shit like "well isn't it a bitch when gifted fanart of an undescribed character doesn't exactly match what's imagined in your head"

Sheesh not even a "thank you"??? >=U What a jerkface! I'm sorry that happened to you hun, some people are just frickin' ridiculous. I love ANY gift art I get because they took the time to draw or make something just for me. Have manners people geez. >_<

Yeah seriously, if someone gives me a STICK FIGURE i'm effin delighted because you know what? may not be the best art in the world but they still took some time out of their day, went a little bit out of their way, to do that for you. you ( general you, not you specifically ) should appreciate it no matter what.

Here here! =D Couldn't have said it better myself. ^_^d

Very well said. I can't tell you how many quotes I have just completely ignored because they ask me to recreate a suit, or copy a style. It takes all my power not to just tell they to F off :/

I hope I didn't unintentionally do that with my maker. xD; I didn't say "I want this suit but like my character!" I did "I like the styles of this and this and this suit, but not this or this or this" ect just so they could get the idea of what I was going for; the maker at the time didn't have too many public examples so hopefully that was okay.

But yeah I've had someone try to commission me, keeping in mind I only do simple commissions as I'm not invested enough in art to do really big things, and then wanted me to replicate a super detailed photorealistic painting on a fantasy book cover of his dragon character. At the time I was only charging like ten bucks for a picture too. FFFFF

Maker here! xD Nah, you did it the right way. "I like the texture of this suit's fur." "I like the level of realism here." "I like the shape of this hand hoof." "These hand hooves look super awkward." I found it helpful but not at all like I ever thought you were trying to get me to copy someone else's style. I find it really useful when people send pictures of shapes/sizes/etc of other fursuits that they like, because it's a really helpful way to get the point across. I find a huge difference between that and stylistic copies like Temperance is talking about here. That's one of the reasons I wanted to stop working for film/tv because they so want you to work in a certain style which is often a copy of other things.

whew, hugely relieved!

God, I've wanted a suit from you guys for the longest time, I absolutely love your style. I don't see why people who want a suit so desperately from a particular artist wouldn't have the patience to wait and get what they were looking for, it seems really dickish. I understand deadlines for coins or whatever are a thing, but goddamn, have the common courtesy to not be such a dicklint and say something like that to an artist.

i always get people coming to me asking me to replicate shagpoke's stuff?? it's happened more times than i can count on my two hands to be honest. I actually got someone telling me to replicate 3 pieces by shagpoke, to EXACTLY replicate them, and then told me that my quote was too high and asked if i could "throw in a pair of free ears" ??
i hate that this seems to be a common problem among makers

hahahha oh jeeze xD Now I'm just curious which tails they were.

a little too far back in my emails to find unfortunately but I can tell you one of the most common requests are your husky tails. I've gotten sooo many people asking me to replicate them down to the exact curl, which of course I will not. I:

Yeah that was the one that I guessed xD And no worries, I would never expect you to, but I wouldn't be bothered if you did honestly. It's a husky tail, I sure don't have a copyright on a curled tail. As long as no one's taking apart my tails to steal the patterns they're welcome to try to replicate shapes as much as they'd like.

This right here is one of many reasons why I stopped trying to break into the fandom on the business front. Along with a lot of other just straight up bullshit, I would not me very... graceful in how I handled this situation. YOU came to ME. No, I'm not going to imitate another artist just because you're too cheap or impatient to pay for the artist you actually want, nor am I going to put myself in a situation where you're going to then turn around and complain to me that what I just made isn't good enough.

This is why I leave all business communication to email. I can take a moment to collect myself before responding :3

GOD what asswhipe said that?!
I LOVE YOUR work.

I wish I could favorite journals

I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but isn't that sort of request similar to when someone asks a visual artist to imitate "Ghibli", "Disney", or "Anime"? The ability to 'copy' in visual arts is highly valued in that way, and I've always been instructed to have that ability and be flexible. I guess it would be different in fursuiiting, since it's more complicated than just drawing a picture.

Maybe it's a touch of ignorance and them believing it's more like drawing in that way than an insult?

Hey, I study other makers works all the time. Looking at photos or looking at suits at cons or at friend's fursuits is very helpful. I have learned a lot by studying other makers techniques.

However, it is one thing to experiment with a technique for a personal suit or for practice. It is another thing entirely to replicate something because a customer asks for it. I am sure a lot of customers don't mean to come off an insulting, but when asking for someone to make something that is not you it really does make you feel second-best.

I can understand that. I think it's a misunderstanding on the commissioners part, really. They're used to artists being able to replicate a style or to "make it kinda like this [insert link here]" and with fur suits it's not as easy. I can see where both parties are coming from and how that'd be annoying :>

With fursuits, most makers take pride that they can make a suit and most people can tell at a glance if it's a More Fur less or a Furr Happens or a Mischief makers. Yes, with work they probably COULD make a suit that looks like Mixed Candy or Eddie-ka, but it sort of defeats the purpose of taking the time to create a unique and individual style.

This this this

*clap clap clap clap* well said.

The ones that have really gotten to me lately are you finish the suit, take pics for the customer, they approve it, you ship it out and then get a note saying "It looks great and all, but you could have done the lips like ******* as they look much better than yours" GRRRS

Im not them, this is my style!!!!

Aggggghhh oh I HATE that.

If the costume is in our shop and something is wrong, we can fix it. If you don't say anything then get you suit and complain it means you have to PAY to send it back for alterations, or cheap out and be dissatisfied because you didn't speak up.

I hate people who get a suit then complain complain complain. We can only fix things if you tell us. Comparing a finished product from one maker to another is impossible, no one is going to frankenstein one makers lips and another makers nose and another makers eyes.

I guess people are afraid if they mention there is something wrong or they would like something altered that we will cancel their commission and refund their money and ban them forever.

Uggh, I get that all the time with digital art. Thankfully, no shipping is involved.
But people tell me in stream "omg this is awesomee! I loves it! <3"
And when I email it to them and upload it to my gallery. Nothing. Not a comment, or even a measly favourite! It makes me feel like they were dissatisfied with something, but were too shy to say anything. :\

Omg a frankensteined suit would look so hilariously bad though XD talk about nonconsistant style

I'd like to see that. It would be like a suitmaker jam. One artist would do a piece, then mail it to the next maker to add another piece. OMG, it would be either hideous, or gorgeous depending how well people worked together and what parts they chose.

Man too bad I can't find it but an artist I follow did a picture like htat; he posted a lineart of a dog and multiple artists were assigned different parts of the dog. I think I was the only one that intentionally made mine ridiculous LOL but it ended up pretty cool in its weird little way. Too bad I can't find it..

Obviously with fursuit making it'd be a fair bit different, but it'd be a riot to do it that way -- assign multiple artists a part to make without allowing them to refer to the other makers, with the only guidelines being the measurements of the suit ( for instance you make left handpaw, shagpoke makes left sleeve, skypro makes body, someone else makes right sleeve, right handpaw, ect using artistic liscence for each part ) just to see what sort of amazingly horribly monstrosity would come out of it

Another way to do it would be something one of my art classes did. obviously the time limits would differ greatly but the assignment was to draw a picture, and every 60 seconds pass the picture to someone else to continue, and things in the picture got really crazy xD

maybe have a fursuit maker work on something for thirty minutes and no matter how (in)complete everything is pass it off to a different maker to continue with what their own idea of it is

...you know, that'd make a great panel at a con or something.

I didn't even know people did this!!!

this is insane to me if you go to a suit maker, you should go to them because you like there style not because you think they could replicate another's. I love your style, and i want my first suit from you. XP

people who commission artists can be pretty rude in general...

a while back, I was doing some free sketched of My Little Pony ocs. I spent ages on this one for this one dude only to be told that "eh. it's alright."

no thanks, no nothing. then proceeded to upload it to his gallery without a link back to my original page.


so long story short COMMISSIONERS SOMETIMES UUUUEEEGH.

Welcome to the internet where everything is free and perfect. There is no human on the other end of that computer, just free art exactly the way you want it.

after all, artists are just factories without souls... AMIRITE

We'll we are doing what we love... so surely that means we don't deserve to get paid a reasonable wage or garner any respect.

I was told once (not by a client) that "art should only ever be a hobby". I was speechless.

Because artists do their best work after getting off their shift at the burger king, right?

oh oh oh! i got one for ya!

after spending a week of all nighters finishing a customers order i give it to them and they loved it, and throughout the con it was delivered to they still thanked me and told me they loved it.

but at the end they suddenly didnt like it, after a few friends told them so

so then i take it back and try to fix it, pushing all my other commisions back, and get it to them updated and hopefully semi-satisfactory

they tell me they are going to go with someone better

someone better

someone better

that was a good feeling

This heavily relates to many art related mediums i'm sure, but all in all completely direspectfuland angering for sure.

I guess another thing too is that it's one thing to emulate a technique but to straight out copy seems dirty towards other fursuit creators, it's not like your a company backed by millions where you could afford to lose income from competition. It's all just a matter of respect.

Its like asking Picasso "Can you make a drawing in the style of Van Gogh?" Or asking Andrew Lloyd Webber to make a musical in the style of Stephen Schwartz. Every creator is uniqie and has his or her individual style and skills and thats while I always recomend newbies to scout around for makers whoms style they like.

Hey ALW, Cats is pretty good, but maybe make it more Elton John. :3

I agree.

Truth be told, I actually did this to a maker once. Looking back on it, it was pretty much a giant middle finger to the artist. Still wish I can take it back because I believe a certain unnamed suit maker now hates my guts, which is understandable, what I did was pretty freakin' rude!

Sometimes there's situations where you just know you'll never be able to get something. So you get kinda desperate to "make it work" and end up doing something stupid. Better to just suck it up and enjoy the stuff you can't have from a distance instead of insulting someone els by trying to have them copy their work, just creating more problems. There really isn't any valid excuse for it, in the end. It's rude.

I had this happen to me several times before where i just politely tell them that i don't replicate other makers style. It sucks that they even ask in the first place >.<

Nowadays I simply tell a person that "I am sorry, but I am not _______, and if they wish a _______ suit, I would recommend they commission _______."

My favourite is when you spend over four times the normal time working on someones project, because they're super picky about assanine things, and then, having met all their incredibly ridiculous demands, send it to them and the reception is less than stellar. Like "It's fine, I GUESS". I don't even mind doing super nitpicky work, or taking forever, as long as the person LIKES IT. Sheesh.

Yeah, I've had a few of those. I've actually cancelled commissions and fully refunded people because I was so stressed over the project. Yes I lost money and yes I lost time and yes I lost materials..... but if I am miserable for weeks for someone who does not understand/appreciate the effort I have put in it's just not worth it.

Someone once asked me to do an anime-style commission.

Uhhhhhhhh, I can't?

Haha, I'd like to see that. Draw something Naruto, I dare you

Dares are good but money bets are better.
Alas, 50USD for that commission just wasn't high-enough.

Whaaat? But you're an artist, you don't need money to buy clothes and eat food. You love to draw.... you should draw for free.

Hahahah, so I've been told! If only I did what I did just because I loved it. I'm a sellout now. C:

I did have someone come to me and link me to a DA submission of a pair of paws and go "I want them EXACTLY like that".
While I said I could do it (or rather I could try to do it - never made puffy paws except for Ziel's before and they're not round), they didn't have the money to pay me and they STILL haven't contacted me back. That's what I get for replying to a minor!

I saw an ad on SoFurry's marketplace with someone looking for basically a duplicate of another person's suit - style, species, markings, EVERYTHING. It was a fox, so it's more forgivable than if it was a really unique character, but I still sent them a reply telling them look man, that's rude, both to the person you want to make your suit, AND to the people who made the original suit, AND to the owner of the suit!

I offer to draw fursuit refs in the style of other fursuit makers, but of course I don't claim to be the official artist for that, and I don't copy their refsheet styles - I look at their suits and interpret the characters in a way that would work with that style. I've only ever drawn one for a competition anyhow. :Y

Never do business with a minor!! Even if you think that they're ok. Dooonnntttt. I'm 17, and waiting until i'm 18(4 months) to buy anything remotely like tails or ears, so I don't accidentally give the maker a heart attack by going "i'm under 18 and using my moms paypal, but she let me"

Yes. You cannot enter a legal contract with a minor, so an artist would be left holding the bag if they decide to not pay you or try to wiggle out of your TOS.

Yes, good on you! I'm going to amend this fact right now... but one of the problems is people can then HIDE the fact, and unless I ask for their ID, then who am I to know?
I'm going to look more into the legalities of this sort of thing.

I totally agree! Though I have not had this experience it definitely would be very annoying and disrespectful to both the commissioned artist and the artist with the original style the commissioner wants copied. D:

Once the original artist themselves had me TRACE their work to make it similar to their style for a trade... WHAAAA? XD I went along with it because if that's what he wanted, fine, but it really bugged me XD

Yes Yes Yes Ohhhhh god yes...

I can see this, but at the same time when I experienced this, I felt a bit flatterd that they thought my work could be up to standard to match the more well known maker.

I was not taking on work, so they got denied.

Okay now this is a sucky situation but I am happy that you made a journal about it.
I mean lets claim that these comments were out of ignorance.
I mean sometimes the obvious isn't so obvious.
Thank you for the heads up so hopefully this can be learning experience for all of those reading & so this doesn't happen to anyone in the future.

I DO try to make these rant journal posts educational. I hope I don't just come off as a big whiner.
I will never identify any specific costumer who has done this to me or any other maker, but hopefully it will help people who are interested in commissioning an artist how to do so respectfully and politely.

Naw you're not a whiner, you're a winner.
I figured as much that you wouldn't shout out who did it. It would only make the situation worse.

Not to toss insults, but when I ordered my suit, I made requests that somewhat emulated another builder. Granted the requests had nothing to do with external appearances, but the builder was quite confused with the request, which I felt would make it easier to use the suit, [preventing leg and arm fur from sliding down and revealing skin or wrinkles]

I would never say "Hey copy so-n-so's work for me" but if I feel there's something I would like, something that to me is helpful and a good idea, be it space for fans, or a cooling pack, to elastic in certain places, to zippers, to velcro for removing the head in an emergency, I do my research and go over the entire project from materials list to final stitch and fit with the builder so we both understand what the final product will be. Some builders take offense to that. Other builders take offense when you check up with them a year later, and still some take offense when you point out a flaw.


All-in-all, find a builder you trust, get to know them and their operations, make sure your measurements are correct AND go over the building plan. Finally when the suit is done, meet with the builder in person to check fit and make adjustments and repair any problems you may find.

... wow did I get off topic.... I need some sleep....

I think if another builder has come up with an idea that makes a suit more comfortable, easier to launder, or more user-friendly, it's absolutely fair to bring that up. Good point, Aeon! I'm always collecting ideas in that vein, because when I ultimately commission a suit, I want it to work for me.

But, when it comes to style, asking someone to mimic someone else's artistic flourishes and trademarks is certainly insulting to *both* artists.

It just boggles my mind--what planet are people from that they think saying, "So-and-so's queue was full, so I decided to go with you, if you can make your stuff look like theirs," *isn't* deeply hurtful and insulting? I'm sorry you've had to deal with that, Temperance.

people in general boggle my mind lol, they do things that make me just say "wow, we have really gone that low as a species...."

I'm cool with people asking for a feature from another maker and sending me photos to see if it's possible. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. If I say I cannot/will not do something featured on another suit I will explain why I think it would be a poor idea (I have refused to do certain things for customers because I do not thing it will structurally last over time versus my methods). However it is one thing to say "I like the super dropped crotch on this one" versus "I really like Telephone, can you make me a suit just like hers but in Green"

as said, thats agreed upon, XD I would never do it, at the same time though I've had times where there was a good idea and the builder was upset because I wanted to change their plans around.

Well if it's too far along in the process, an idea may mean remaking whole sections which costs a maker time and money. Ideas should be discussed before a costume has begun to the maker has plenty of time to plan.

it was, in-fact she hadn't even ordered the supplies, she just felt it would be more work for her at the time. turned out she never even did the suit, fought with her over a refund and went with another builder ^^

Well that just sounds like lazy-maker-itis :P

Amen sister!

Reasons why I wanted to make suits and don't /\ dis here. The last one I made for a friend that changed his sonas daily. That slowed me down alot. I'm still owed 400+ hopefully he pays me soon cause so far he got a full suit digigrade for a partial price of 700 and only paid 300 of it so far... I said if liked it he should pay me more cause I've never done digigrade. So I was willing to take a small loss (I should have still broke even I mean loss as in no money profit) for the experience, but would like more if it turned out good you know? ....let's just say he's ok spending 500 on art but paying me enough to break even might take a bit longer....Ugh
No longer my friend

This is why I gave up making anything for anyone now. My suits only.

As for art I stopped doing commissions cause the few I got ere always rude,never faved or commented,or gave like no info and hated when I asked for more. Then didn't want to pay me when they got it....even though it look ed like my examples. I think the just wanted free art, like it's just so easy to make. Also no on likes traditional art anymore. If I offer digital I can't beat them off with a stick. Traditional, I will be lucky to hear a peep....same style an everything I don't get it. Even offer shipping once it's done.
So now I do random free art for interesting characters. If they like it, cool if not, I enjoyed drawing it anyway. Just don let me catching you repost without linking me >_>

Thats exactly why almost all fursuit makers has a rule of at least 30% down payment before bying materials or starting any work. You want to secure that you dont loss money in cases like this, even with friends. Or rather: In particular with friends.

I could only imagine how that would hurt my feelings!
-J

I definitely agree with this. Asking a builder to make something that is not in their style (or more specifically asking them to make something in someone else's style) is not only offensive to the artist, it can become a problem for the maker's reputation if they try to do it. For example, if you start making suits that look just like someone else's, that person is going to be upset.

Just add that to the list of insulting things. Asking a builder to use techniques or features that they clearly do not usually offer, telling them that their work is too expensive, asking them to use materials they are not comfortable using. All of those things drive me nuts!

Yes, I am sure lots of makers are told they are too expensive. I don't think customers realize how expensive suit-making is.... or the fact that this may be our only source of income; "I'm sorry your hamster died, but I like to live in a house and eat food, so no, I can't give you a discount."

Yea. =/ those of us who use top-quality materials and do this for a living really can't afford to hand out hundreds of dollars worth of discounts every month. And I've had enough BS excuses from people. "My daughter is dying of cancer and has a month to live, can you send ____ out now and i will pay you for it later?" UM NO, I've heard that excuse like 4 times in the 5 years I've been building suits. I would feel bad if it were the truth, but the chances of it being truth are just way too low. I'm not gunna ship out a $900+ thing without it being paid for. duh!

That's really annoying! I request things from artists/suitmakers BECAUSE of their style, not for cost/queue!

Anyone doing it for anything other than that they enjoy suits/art from that particular person are doing it WRONG! D:

Your style is honestly really adorable and amazing!
screw those people.
They should just save more money and get it from the one they want to get it from!
I personally would not want a cookie cutter suit!
I love to see what that artist I like can do with my character!
Each artist has their own unique style!
What I love about yours is every suit is unique and different.
EVEN if its the same species! you still like to make it your own you know?
Don't ever change that!

I have had this happen to ma SOOOOOOO many times! It normally involves the bodies and them asking me to make them look like Radywolf's. I love their bodies but that is one a toony style and I'm a realistic suit builder and two it's not MY style.