Because to me. Its easier to understand then it is to go and explain. I have hard times explaining things with.. myself. but thats just me. I know most people hate the idea of labels I dont mind them as long as its not being used as if its wrong to be "this" in some way if that make sense

I understand what you're saying, but I also feel that sometimes we try to adhere to a certain label too much, if that really makes any sense at all. :p

Which I get. its hard to be perfect but its hard to find a solution.

I had this whole big thing written and you deleted the journal and I lost it D:

To summarize:

I think labels are a natural part of human society, as humans by nature like to put things in categories as a way to better understand them. I don't think using them to any degree is necessarily right or wrong, but I do think that they can be both useful to discuss and analyse certain things and harmful when used carelessly and stereotypically. It is important to think about the labels one uses for oneself and others and whether they are accurate, generalizations, etc..

I apologize once again. T-T I'm an idiot and dont know how to hit the right buttons. I just wanted to fix a few grammar errors that were bugging me. >.<

I can understand that, and one thing I wonder as well is do we tend to try to adhere to certain labels too much. (I guess this is more personal, but I'll share) I had an issue at one point where I was conflicting with myself whether or not I was bi. (after already coming out as gay) Talking to a friend he said not to worry about it too much, just to go with what feels right. If you like a girl, then you like a girl, is what he told me. So thats what I plan to do, although I have yet to be with a girl, and therefore for people wondering, I just tell them I'm gay. lol

It's no big deal, I should save larger posts before posting them anyway.

Yeah, I had feelings for girls when I was younger too, and I never told anyone I was bi because I'm not into girls enough to have ever been a relationship with a woman and getting all technical about it with people is pointless. I might be on the higher side of 5 on the Kinsey scale, but I'll still tell people I'm gay for convenience.

Also, people assume that bisexual means that you are equally interested in either sex, and that isn't really true for many people. So I can see the conflict in not wanting to say you're bisexual and have people think you're always into both. And then there's the problem when you question an identity you already embraced and label yourself with, that you already have people identify you by. That can cause a lot of confusion for both the questioning person and others.

Other admin here. Always highlight and copy something (if it's big) before hitting 'post.' It's a general rule I live by when it comes to the internet. xD

In my opinion we do, from little kids in first grade to governments of major countrys, people have used labels for hundreds of years and it is just way over used. My question would be, when is it a good time to use labels?

when you need to describe a person "that metalhead over there" instad of "that person over there with long hair, a band shirt and boots, and seems to be a very kind person"

Well that sounds better ^^

people like to group things together that they dont understand so that they are easier to understand. I think as more people realize what it is to be LGBTQ and every other orientation, the less people will have to explain and the labels will start to go away on their own. sorry if this is worded strangely

Society is labelled... that's all we need to know to answer the question... YES we use TONS of labels for the others

no

Nice and direct. I like it.

Labelling is something we (as humans) do every single time, for every single thing.
It has pros and cons.

IMO, despite all the labels people come up with, we're human beings, we're all (roughly) the same thing. Gay, straight, lesbian, trans, black, yellow, blue, white, handicapped or not... Pity some people have to cling to those words in an offensive way.

Don't really care for labels

dude you fit the most labels possible on your page

In other words does it really matter to me at all? Not one bit

it obviously does since you put them on there

I'm wondering if maybe he means he's just indifferent about . He uses them (as everyone does whether they realize it or not) just to give a quick overview of himself.

This kind of explains how I feel. Don't care too much one way or the other, but I also don't want to explain everything about me when it can be convenient to put one of those on your page and find someone with a common interest.

"Don't really care for labels"

Hm... lets take a look at that profile page of yours:

Furry (more specifically, a "Red wolf or White striped tiger shark or a demon turned good")
AlabamaFurs
AfricanAmericanFurs
Christianfurs
Malefurs

I don't think much else needs to be said on that.

i think its more a statement of "i dont care about people that care about it"

Not the subject at hand.

Yes. Yes we do. Just look at Tumblr.

Yes we do.
I have autism so that makes me stupid.
Einstein also had autism so that makes him stupid.

thats a negative stereotype, not a label, autism and stupid are both different labels, people that think autism = stupid are idiots, which is also a label.
People make a fuss about labels, while there are just that, descriptive names.

Yes but I have to here people label things as autistic.

They're good fur the sake of convenience and bad since there are many offensive labels out there that unfortunately won't go away.

Actually a label itself cannot be offensive. They can be used to offend people, but that is due to the use someone makes of the label, not the label itself.
For example, my friends and I say "Die zijn voor watjes!", "Bende ne miet?", "Da's voor homo's!", and "Bende ne flikker ofzo?", which literally translate to: "Those are for wimps!", "Are you a pussy?", "That is for homosexuals!", and "Are you a fag or something?". But all these mean "I think what you just proposed is really lame".
Still, they made more of a fuss over me telling them I had for a while already been able to play "Concerning Hobbits", than they did over me telling them I was gay.
I think this goes to show that labels that one might consider "offensive", are only offensive when used by people who actually want to offend.

I see, that's true.

Who cares? Humanity has a natural tendency to categorize information, that's even how we memorize.

And even those people who say "I don't use labels" are full of shit. They will use some sort of word or something to describe themselves (even those people who are "genderless" are using a label).

this, so much this !!!!

its what i think all the time!

Thirded for great justice!

I agree with you mostly but do you think its possible that we can (in any circumstance) overuse them or using them in a terrible way?

1. No
2. Anything can be used in a terrible way. I can go beat someone with a spatula, but that doesn't mean we should be against spatulas.

Hehe I understand. But I never said we should be against it. :)

And I never said you said that. I'm simply stating a point.

Touche my friend. I do enjoy your way of thinking not trying be an ass, btw. :)

I think some people use the stereotype piercing rule to label themselves, I use the rule and wearing my arm selves and vest shirts out in public cause I'm openly Gay.

Yes. I mean shit you have people in Tumblr who are all social justice warrior-ing coming up with freaking, what is it, 30 different genders and that kind of bullshit. It's like you can't be 'gay', 'straight', or 'bi' anymore. Now you have people coming up with a dozen different bullshit labels just so they can all be super special snowflakes.

Irks me a bit, can you tell.

YES

http://i.imgur.com/xWqZNUi.png

<-

tumblr posts make me loose faith in people

your use of loose in the wrong context makes me loose faith in people

it was a typo, i know the difference between lose and loose

To me, labels are like names. We naturally us them to differentiate what is what, Like race, sex, orientation, religion, and even our own names. This helps us to better understand what type a person he/she is. But using labels to degrade people, like the f word towards us gays, than that is a problem.

the issue here is not labels, they are useful for people to figure out who they are and who their friends are. we furries use them to describe ourselves and our fursonas, too. problems arise when--in ignorance--we use labels to classify people as "other" than us, as something negative, to be avoided, an enemy, etc.

also a FTM trans person can be gay, bi, straight, pan, asexual, etc. it is not up to us to decide what sexuality they are based on their previous, current, or next gender. gender and orientation are different and not tied to each other. if you meet a FTM person just ask them what their orientation is when it is comfortable and appropriate to talk about such things.

Firstly. Your name is fabulous! Scar should've definitely tried to become the king of designers instead of the king of Pride Rock, and changed his name to Scarf.

"We furries" So...what is a furry? I've seen many people on this website, some of which identify as furry, some of which don't, and they all have such different views of themselves in relation to the furry thing and other furries. Despite having a label that roughly describes a person with some kind of interest (varying degrees) in some kind of areas (anthro art, transformation, fursuiting, drawing, stories, porn, clean, etc), it is extraordinarily difficult to convey all of that information about someone with a single word. Yes, it can be useful as a quick introduction, but ask 100 furries to describe what furry means to them and you'll get almost 100 different answers.

Yes and no.. labels are not bad, but judging people by labels IS bad. For example, calling a homosexual marriage 'gay marriage' instead of just marriage, makes it obvious that being homosexual in nature sets this marriage apart an actual marriage in some people's minds. Call it what it is, when I eat lunch, I don't gay eat lunch, I eat lunch. So.. use labels, they aren't at all bad, homophobic dickwads overuse them to assert their ignorant hatred, but don't let that ruin an otherwise perfectly legitimate label.

Labels are a useful, quick way to keep things in order in our minds. We (humanity) are very good at classification and we try to make everything fit into a neat diagram. Check...oh, any diagram that science has come up with from the periodic table to phylogenetic trees, from the Standard Model in physics to the sets of real, rational, complex and so on numbers, and of course the Venn diagram of 17-year-old guys with one leg and virgins. And if you just want a quick description, labels are very useful, they can convey large amounts of information quickly and you form a quick mental picture of the situation.

But the universe doesn't care about neat little labels. It is a vast, unimaginable thing full of tiny yet vastly complex and unimaginable things, including humans. Assigning labels simply doesn't do justice to all the subtleties in someone's personality and tastes, they are in their nature limited heuristics, shortcuts that sacrifice descriptive power for speed. The best way to describe someone properly is to know them well and imagine them complexly but this is very time-consuming and cannot be done for every single person you meet, so we use labels to do this more rapidly, so it's important to be aware of their limitations.

The previous journal was an example of the use of too many labels (in my opinion): we were so caught up in thinking about people as gay or straight that we forgot to think about them as simply people. To relate it back to science (one of the few things I can actually do well), we often use bacteria like E. coli or yeast like S. cerevisiae to study metabolic pathways, but instead of getting stuck with the idea that this particular species can carry out this reaction, if we see other eukaryotes or prokaryotes do something similar, then it's reasonable to say all eukaryotes/prokaryotes do it and this isn't specific to the species you studied, even if you used it as a model. Models too are used as shortcuts because it's impossible to test every single species, or every single individual, in order to get a complete assessment of their characteristics, therefore they are flawed as well as useful, and it's important to keep in mind their limitations.

I don't see any problem with labels, unless of course they aren't accurate. Finding a common label with someone is very helpful for breaking the ice with them. I think labels just help us understand each other without having to get into a deep discussion about something that may not turn out to be of interest. I can just say "I'm gay" instead of "well, I really feel more comfortable with homosexual relationships, and I'm not immediately attracted to the opposite sex, but I have been attracted to certain women before, so maybe I would consider a heterosexual relationship if I happened to bond with someone like that." I mean sure, the intricacies of my sexuality could be interesting to someone who happens to be as open minded as I am, but the simple identification as "gay" could be a good way to avoid an awkward situation after learning that they are one who reads the Holy Bible as the literal word of the Christian god and thus believes that homosexuality, mixing fabrics, and sleeping with a woman on her period are immoral (or, as society would label them, a "fundamentalist Christian").

i think it's okay for there to be some labels, but for one, not so many, two, people need to stop using labels as a sort of stereotype, and three... i don't even know how to say this properly but here's my best shot, stop manipulating labels to have it if you say it, it's fine, but if another says, it it's offensive.

Yep.

normally, I hate being labelled. I mean, sometimes labeling is like dehumanizing one another! Ya know what I mean?

"I hate being labelled."

Well, lets take a look at that page of yours:


Full-time Student
Furry
Aquarius
Species: White Tiger

And don't even get me started on those groups you have on that page. Each of those is a label.

Oi! Take it easy on me! I didnt come here to get in a fight or to be humiliated! Q.Q

yea but its true, people who go around "dont label me bro" are really obnoxious and dont seem to understand exactly what a label is, its a name/descriptive tag and nothing more

You calling me obnoxious? -_________- *facepalms*
Geez, i almost forgot how everyone thinks they have every right to judge.
You dont know how I am IRL... I suggest you and your buddy to be careful who you talk down to.

im not calling you abonoxious directly, im saying people who are like that are

ohhhh! why didn't you say so! XD

labels can be both good and bad, depending on how you use them

I feel like there's always going to be someone who feels excluded because some label doesn't "perfectly describe them" (which is almost impossible). So there are really an infinite number of increasingly ridiculous labels out there to describe the "gay transexual one-eyed left-footed manwoman." It just doesn't stop.

There is no way of pleasing everyone all of the time (as quoted famously by I forget who), but if we stick to the basic labels and people just freggin' accept that, it should all be ok.

Too many fucking labels.

As far as sexuality goes if thats what you mean.

Its grown practically mad. Im tired of it.

People complain about fucking labels constantly, then adhere to some esoteric, special snowflake label and claim thats them.





Its not me. And if you have a brain its not you. Sexuality is confusing enough. Ive seen the metal world tear itself apart over "labels."
I dont want to see people do the same over sexualities.
Such squish bang blow.

metal world is pretty intact where i am
the only kind we are united against are the emos

and then theres the most northern Norwegian black metalheads who are just the odd kid you think probably killed a cat or 4

Labels are simply nothing more than humans attempting and, most of the time, succeeding at communicating with other humans. When there is a problem, like confusion with sexual preferences and such, it is because the label has not been fully defined. The label is inadequate to describe the entire thing. At one point the sun had many names as did the moon but now they serve as descriptions for specifically this solar system's sun and Earth's moon. We now have clear definitions and there's no issue (for most) with those verbal designations. Transgender and transexual are still new, relatively ill defined words or labels and they're inadequate to describe whatwe want. You can say transexual but it doesn't imply sexual preference. The problem then becomes, the private sexual preference inferences. As a transexual you may be homosexual or heterosexual but now those terms are confusing to most with regard to the condition/situation. Transexuals and transgendered people are relatively new to the wider public. That's not to say that it's a new human development, but it is new socially for many people. Many transsexual or transgendered people did not express their concerns in past generations usually out of fear. Today it is less frightening and there's a bit more acceptance. It may not yet be much acceptance, but enough to warrant talk show education and not just Springer or Geraldo. Also several documentaries. There will always be derogatory terms for any social group. A survival mechanism for humans is discrimination. It helped humans to learn and possibly evolve. Don't eat red berries from that bush, they're poison! Only eat red berries from that other bush. Humans discriminate based on their taste preferences, they discriminate on their sexual partner tastes, and activities. None of these are bad things, but discrimination is a bad word and we shouldn't do it. Let me be clear that I am not advocating racism or sexism. Nor am I trying to justify those behaviors in others. Communication will be the last human limitation. Until we can communicate via telepathy or other more effective means.

If you don't believe me, define the color red to a blind person who's never seen color.

Oh I completely believe you. And it seems that some don't really understand what labels really are, but reading through your post (among all the other posts) I think that I've pretty much come to the conclusion that you have stated here.

Labels aren't a bad thing, but sometimes personally, I get kinda angry when someone HAS to put someone in a certain category. It's just like, can't we let things be? I don't know, I sometimes have a weird way of thinking. LOL

All in all, labels are pretty much necessary for us, and not inherently a bad thing, but can be used in negative ways. :3

Rereading my post I see a few errors in language and some disjointed thoughts. I'm surprised you were able to glean anything from it :P

That being said, yes humans tend to overemphasize the necessity of labels, but it really is because we're taught from a young age to categorize and form an opinion. If we can't categorize it, we can't form an opinion and so therefore we fear and/or hate it.

"I'd be much less afraid of it if I just knew what it was called!"

"Let's call it Steve!"

"Oh yes, I'm much less afraid of Steve!"

60 useless points to the first who identifies where that's from. Be nice!! It may not be verbatim accurate.

So, I was writing a comment to this journal but it was getting to be way too long, so I turned it into a journal of my own which can be found here.

The basic gist of it is that labels are important, but people need to use them more wisely and take other people's perceptions into consideration.

But to answer your question of whether a trans man would identify as gay or not, that would probably depend on whether he was attracted to men or not. The few trans men that I've known were either gay or bi, so identified as such, but I would imagine if pre-transition they identified as a lesbian, then post-transition they would likely identify as straight. But, as with all labels, that's not set in stone. :3

YES!!!