I dont play in the bolt action world. So I won't embarrass myself offering opinions on them. Personal protectionis another matter. If you have notyet gotten a copy, read "In the gravest extreme" by Massod Ayoob. Well worth the read for not only the tactical aspects, but also the social and legal issues you should be considering.

That being said. Tryout the various pistols you are considering. If you dont hit thebad guy,it doesn't matter what bullet is being launched. Generally the bigger thebetter. But bigger guns are more cybercom difficult to conceal. So, more tradeoffs there. Also considerations of reload magazines a flashlight, and lower levels of force such as knives, clubs and pepper spray.


Find a range with rental pistols and try a box of ammo through each one. Find the one that is comfortable to shoot, points naturally in your hands, and you are pretty accurate with.

I will definitely check that out. Thanks for the tips!!!

IIRC, you are in NH. There is a place in Manchester called the firing line that has an onsite range with firearms to rent. Warning, if you rent one of the full auto guns, it gets really expensive, really fast.

I can offer my suggestions for the second part here - I personally think you ought to try some pistols out as suggested by dalesql if possible. Now often with range guns they are quite dirty, might be abit worn out and so on, but it can give you an idea of how certain cals will feel and also let you try out different models with different features.

For HD I def suggest sticking to hollow point ammo. One reason - they are better at taking a person out of the fight quicker. I base this off the fragmentation and expansion of the cap when it enters soft tissue therefore creating wound channels and causing more trauma on the opponent. Second reason - less likely to over penetrate the target as well as the house walls which would help prevent fratricide, aka killing or wounding family, friends, loved one's in general.

Personally I choose a .40 caliber for personal defense as I feel it gives a good balance of range and target neutralization. The .40 cal is basically a less powered 10mm, same cap, less powder. Often have flat tips, not that you can't get other cals with flat points. This allows a greater transfer of energy when impacting the target which can stun or knock down the target in some cases. Downside is that since it is a heavier bullet, it does drop abit quicker than say a 9mm. It does also have alittle more recoil as well. Now out of a Sig I would say it is not much of a factor. Sigs are well weighted guns often having a steel slide with an aluminum frame, a double twist spring and metal guide rod. More heavy, this helps compensate and reduce the recoil and allows for faster follow up shots as you can return to your target quicker. Be aware you will lose capacity with this option however as many compact pistols in the caliber will be 10 to roughly 13 where a model of the same size can get 13 to 15 9mm rounds.

9mm on the other hand I think is perfectly acceptable especially when using hollow point ammo. Not gonna have the crazy knock down power but with an HP and the fragmentation and or mushrooming, it will still cause significant damage to the target and you have the lighter recoil to make multiple follow up shots. You will also not see a drop as quickly with the 9mm as you would the .40 or a .45, grain dependent. So in a general defense range up to 10 or so yards, you will have a more flat trajectory. Gonna put the .357 Sig in this same section as the 9mm because it is basically a high powered 9mm. .357 Sig is a 9mm cap in a necked .40 caliber casing, think of it as 9x22mm, where a common 9mm is 9x19. The extra powder gives the bullet increased velocity usually going over 1000 fps. This allows for the flattest trajectory and with FMJ, high penetration of say car doors or other similar defensive barriers. From some of the ballistic gel tests I have seen, the overall wound is not much greater than a standard 9mm but you get the extra pen when there is a barrier between you and the target. I have heard that it can be abit "snappy" out of some pistols too. I don't have personal experience firing this round yet so I cannot confirm nor deny that claim. The ammo is more expensive too and you will also get the capacity reduction like with the .40. Is up to you to decide if the extra punch and flatter trajectory are good trade offs for the price and lower capacity and potentially more snappy recoil of this round.

Now for a pistol to use for carry and or HD, I think you ought to go with a Sig P229 vs the P239. I say this because you do get alittle more capacity in the P229 vs the P239 but still generally get the same compactness. Yes, the P229 is alittle taller, alittle heavier and has a slightly longer barrel giving it an overall longer length but I don't see that as a negative. There is a mix of trigger modes available in each as well. Ammo types are also the same having a 9mm, .40 and .357 cal model for them both. I do feel the newer P229 with the E2 grips are much more comfortable than the old style that used the 2 panels. The E2 has a more rough texture but also slims the pistols width and the grip feels alot more like a glove. Not to say the old were bad, I just like the newer grips personally, be up to you to see what you like and what fits best for you. Both pistols are roughly in the same price range too, even used. The P229 is also available with a railed frame if you so want one to mount a laser, a flashlight, or a combo. I do not believe the 239 has this option in an of their models. This is a trivial thing of course but it gives people another option if they like having accessories.

Another pistol I would say you might look to consider which is also about half the price of the Sig's but is still a lovely weapon is the Walther PPQ. This pistol is available in 9mm and .40 S&W. This gun is a polymer framed pistol unlike the Sig's. The grip is really comfortable and the backstrap is adjustable for your hand size. The PPQ also has one of the quickest resetting triggers on the market. This allows for fast first shot and follow up shots. The trigger is a consistent 5.6lbs pull being a striker fired pistol. This does however mean it is a DAO more or less and you will likely need to get used to that if not familiar with it. This is still a compact sized handgun like the two Sig's. This gun is lighter with the polymer however. Does it still absorb recoil very well? Yes, with the 9mm it was extremely soft to shoot and with the fast reset you can double tap near effortlessly. I have not tried the .40 cal model however so I cannot give any input on recoil for it. The guns profile is concealable but to me is alittle more wonkey for that, but then that's for me. HD though, great and general target shooting too. There is an M1 model and M2 available. The M1 has a paddle mag release which is ambidextrous, it is along the sides of the trigger guard and you use your thumb or index to press down on it to release a mag. I personally like this type. The M2 has a more traditional thumb mag release which is reversible. Neither of these two make it easy for the mag to drop when being drawn or handled though I'm sure people will claim the M1 does it alot. Never had the issue. I would highly recommend trying this pistol out if you get the chance.

In the end you need to go to a gun shop and handle the various pistols you are interested in. A range is good too for shooting. Also consider a course or reading and trying different stances and shooting styles. Learn the fundamentals. When you choose your firearm learn it too. Get used to it's features, lay out, sights, trigger, take down, maintenance etc and practice as often as you can. Gather as much info as you can on whatever you want to choose. Lot of input can be found on forums and likely even here for people who have handled and or owned various guns but you still need to have your own personal experience as well. Be aware also that you can find different types of sights for your pistols. If you don't want the normal 3-dot type look into tritium for good day and night capabilities or a fiber optic/Hi-viz. Can also look into trigger jobs or other modifications too. There are alot of things you can do to improve the weapon to your liking and shooting style.

I hope some of this info will come to use when you do make your decision.

Thank you, Roo, for all the great information! I took your suggestion and looked up the PPQ and it looks AMAZING. Great reviews and exactly what I am looking for. I will rent one at a tactical range that has them and try it out. I'm lucky that I have a public range within driving distance that rents out a very decent selection of handguns and rifles to try. I will definitely reach out with questions or for more information as I delve deeper things.

Thanks again for your valued input!!!

re-combined comments.

400 to 1000 yards is a decent distance. If you are not looking for impact force then i would look at 223 or 17hrm where as 223 is the most sport friendly as far as cost goes. For something in between a 300 magnum and a small 308 i would suggest a 270 winchester, browning or remington. It's the closest decent 30 cal to the 30-06. An old 6.5 with dual feather trigger is very impressive but ammo is costly.

I use a VEPR (WPA) 7.62x54r rifle for my main hunting rifle. The price is good and is very reliable and ammo can be found just about anywhere. It's basically the hunting version of the AK47 with a slow return bolt. There are other version of the VEPR 7.62. When it comes down to it the VEPR and the 270 have higher repeatable accuracy ratings at varying distances. They out shoot my winchester 308.

Thank you for the information! I will definitely look into the VEPR models as well as the other rifles you suggested. I'll also research the 223 caliber (I had not seen anything on this caliber as of yet) and try it out on the range. Thanks again for the opinions!!!!

for a pistol i have a few. i have a glock 22 in .40 also a sig 226 and sig 229 in.45
love them and could not ask for better. great guns and very reliable. thats my 2 cents though

also in my sigs i use hollow point police issue rounds

For home defense you can't go wrong with a shot gun. At close range nothing beats it and the plus side to a shot gun vs a hand gun for home defense is that the shot will not go through multiple layers of drywall and makes the other occupants in the house a little bit safer where as a pistol will go through multiple walls and a stray bullet may hit the wrong person. You also just have to aim in the general direction because of the spread of the shot. Many pellets are better then one.

As for concealed carry I have a Taurus TCP .308 that is extremely small and is just smaller then a 9mm. It can easily fit in a pocket or small holster and weighs almost nothing. http://www.shootingillustrated.com/.....us-pt-738-tcp/

I also have a Ruger SR-22 that is an awesome hand gun, but it just shoots 22 longs. Dont get me wrong a 22 will take someone out. You just need to either hit them right or empty the clip. It is a 10 round clip which is nice and the ammo is dirt cheap. It is by far one of my favorite guns. I do conceal carry it and it is bigger then the TCP but smaller and alot lighter then the 9mm. It can also be used left or right handed which is nice.

I also have two Hi-Point C9s which are heavy, but get the job done. I got an awesome deal on them and could not pass them up. http://www.handgunsmag.com/2013/02/.....int-c9-review/ They are big ugly heave guns but I have never had a firing problem with them or jam. They work great every time I used them. I have been carrying that one when I ride the motorcycle because of the weight and it would be the best to shoot with gloves on. 9mm ammo isnt to badly priced either.

Ruger Review http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20.....ew-ruger-sr22/

Thanks for the info mutt!! Truly appreciate your insights! My instructor also recommended the shotgun for home defense as well and I will look into them. The Taurus looks VERY intriguing and i'll peek at the Ruger as well. Thanks again for the information and hope to see you and Bash soon!

hmm... Ok let me get started.

Rifle.... Learn the basics first, everyone who successfully shots at 1000 yards learned their craft at much sorter distances. There's a myriad of options out there, but in the end only you can decide what will work for you. So having said that I'll give you my 2 cents. Learning, I would pick up something in .223 / 5.56 and begin practicing between 100 and 400 yards. Most quality rifles have more mechanical accuracy then the average shooter inside of 400 yards. I know the old standby for precision shooting has been a bolt gun, but the AR platform is more then capable of delivering sub moa accuracy within those distances. out to 400 / 500 yards with a .223 / 5.56 I would recommend a .75 grain projectile and a 1 in 7 twist on the rifling.

Another advantage to the AR platform is home defense. It's hard to believe for some folks, but an AR with the proper ammo has less penetration in normal building materials then a pistol round or a 12 gauge slug.

If you want a bolt gun, my recommendation would be a Remington 700. It is pretty much the AR of the precision bolt gun world. There is an entire industry of after market parts for the model 700 so their easy to customize. Not saying you can't do that with any other bolt gun, but you'll most likely have to work harder to find what you want. The model 700, has been the go to sniper rifle for law enforcement and the military for decades. The Army's M-21 and the Marines M-40 sniper rifles are built on the model 700.

500 plus yards. Again the model 700 is more then capable of performing out to reasonable ranges, and there are a lot of dropped tango's that could testify to that if they were still breathing. However w well tuned AR-10 style rifle is also capable of performing in those ranges as well. Just remember a couple of basic things before you set you sights on being an long range shooter. It tends to be very hard to find any range more the 500 yards in most areas, so before you try and set your self up for more then 500 yards, make sure you can find a range that's long enough. Next remember the single most expensive part of any true precision rifle is going to be your scope. Heck even a high quality scope for a non sub moa rifle will easily top $500.00. My last duty rated scope was just over $700.00.

Pistol.
Take a trip to the Firing Line in Manchester NH and rent a few guns. Well that or come on up to my yearly fur-bq in august. You can ask DEX, Fawx, Dale Squirrel or Spaz about our little range sessions during the fur-bq.


I recently got to spend a week at the state police academy range and tried out several of the leading police duty pistols on the market in all of the common police duty calibers. So based on that and way too many years pulling triggers for pleasure and work, I'll let you know my thoughts.

Recoil- Here is how I would rate the perceived recoil of various rounds in full size duty pistols. (I say perceived because the size and weight of a weapon absorbs some of the energy generated by discharge of the round.)
9mm- The least amount of perceived recoil of the rounds listed.
45acp- The USA's classic man stopper. I would rate the round next in the amount of perceived recoil. It is very manageable to most shooters with a little bit of training, and as one female officer I talked with put it. The 45 seems more like a push then a sharp recoil.
.40 s&w - This round is currently the THE go to pistol caliber of choice for American law enforcement agencies. it is basically a shortened down 10mm round. I would also say that the .40s&w has a very snappy recoil.
.357sig- An attempt to replicate the best self defense round ever the venerable .357 magnum. This round has a lot of perceived recoil and is very snappy. However that translates into the flattest shooting and longest range pistol round of the calibers listed.

Pistols- I have my own opinions in the area and you can take them or leave them.
Glock- They hold 65% or more of the law enforcement market in the US for a reason. They are relatively inexpensive and they work. I have owned 5 of them (two Glock 23's one Glock 19 one Glock 27 and one Glock 42) as well as being issued 2 different Glock 22's, and I can say that I have honestly HATED everyone of them with the exception of the model 42. They are simple, and they are reliable. However they also have the ergonomics of a 2x4, and I just can't stand the way they feel in my hands. If you're new to shooting you may like the Glock, and they are definitely forgiving of those who are not well schooled in weapons maintenance.

Sig 229/226- Great guns, I think they are way to expensive and their high bore axis gives them a lit of muzzle flip. I prefer their double action / single action models. I do not care for their DAK trigger or their double action only trigger. I also do not like the position of their de-cocker lever in relation to the slide stop. I haven't gotten a chance to shoot the 239 yet, but it's follows the design of the 226 and 229.

XD- The XD 45 shoots very nice, but some folks do not care for the high bore axis or the grip mounted safety. In general it's a very highly rated pistol of the modern polymer design. However it's not the American Glock as some folks have called it. It may be made / marketed by Springfield armory (now) but it was designed in Serbia.

HK USP 45- Expensive, well built, over priced, well built, and oh yeah over priced. They shoot nice, but for what they charge, the USP should also score and reface your target between rounds while you sip tea back on the firing line.

Beretta CX-4 in 9mm- The gun shots very smooth, but the rotary lock-up is somewhat unique. I'm not sure how well it will hold up over time, but it was dream to shoot.

Beretta 92fs- I know some folks don't care for them, but I love the model 92. It seems to be the most accurate service pistol I have ever used
and I have found them to be utterly reliable when properly maintained. Having said that, if you aren't the kind of person who'll clean and maintain your weapon regularly, then this pistol is not for you.

S&W M&P- While they are a far cry from the original M&P's (they were revolvers) The current M&P line of pistols seem to shoot very nice and hold up to duty use nicely. Plus just like Glock, you have multiple size weapon built around the same frame.

Now having said all that (Because you asked about pistols), I'll tell you my real feelings. Get a nice revolver and be happy for the ret of your life..... You know just saying.

I hope my ramblings helped.

Huggs

Fyr

Thank you so much for all of the great information Fyr!!! Really appreciate the detailed insight. I actually had the Remington 700 on my list of rifles to try out and will definitely look into it! I will definitely travel to Manchester's Firing Line as well as Bob's Tactical up in Salisbury to rent a few and try them out and see what feels right. Thanks for all the great information on the pistols and all your points have made my things to be mindful of list.

Would love to get a chance to shoot with you guys. Dex and Fawx did mention that they head up to your place for the BBQ!

Thank you so much for all of the great information Fyr!!! Really appreciate the detailed insight. I actually had the Remington 700 on my list of rifles to try out and will definitely look into it! I will definitely travel to Manchester's Firing Line as well as Bob's Tactical up in Salisbury to rent a few and try them out and see what feels right. Thanks for all the great information on the pistols and all your points have made my things to be mindful of list.

Would love to get a chance to shoot with you guys. Dex and Fawx did mention that they head up to your place for the BBQ!

Thanks again for all the great information!

*hugs*

Double down on a Remington 700 with Fyr I like the Walter PPS 9mm. A carry pistol you can carry. Also, lots and lots of practice under stress once you get proficient. Even a 22 mag hit is better than a s&w 500 miss

I'd love to give my input but I seem to have missed the boat :P