FA+
Shop
Crooked People
11 years ago
My last journal was very emotional, it was written when I was fuming angry. I will take it down and replace it with this. In this journal I shall be more logical and calm, but still I will tell about crooked people.
So I have had some lousy luck with some furries, I could talk about all the bad relationships. But that's life, you get some bad people along the way in relationships.
What I'm here to talk about is crooked people who cheat, swindle, con, scam, hoax and even hustle others out of their money. I have been a victim more than once and it never feels any better, I should start from my first experience of being a target to a con artist.
I was fairly new to the fandom them, this happened years and years ago, I was a big fan of this character. It was this lecherous blue cat called Skip Beyers drawn by
borni, I thought then he was so sexy and I kinda still do think so. He wasn't super beautiful like a model would be with a perfect skin, Skip was more the rough biker type and that was very attractive. Anyway one of my friends told me that there was a guy who made plushies, so of course I was interested. So I seeked this guy out and found him, his name then was Chaz Wolf. I can't be sure it's the same user here on Fur Affinity, but then his name was Chaz Wolf.
So I asked him for a life size replica of Skip, anatomically correct. I was young then, so don't judge me. Well as we got to talk about it and all, it seemed like a relationship started to form. He was so nice and lovely, I sent him the money and it was no small amount. I think it was around $400+ that I sent, so quite a lot. After he got the money, he vanished. He never answered my messages and stuff like that, so basically it was all a scam. The plushie sale and even the relationship, I tried to get him to pay back. Yet that never happened, he scammed me good.
Well that was my first experience with a con artist, second was with good old
markwulfgar.
Again he had art that I liked, his comics were very sexy and had decent stories. So me and my friend thought maybe we could get a three part comic from him, so I paid him for like 13 or 15 pages. At first it was going well, I seem to get pages done. Then it began to slow down, he started telling me about difficulties in his life. As a good trusting person, I believed him. Time went on and on, every time I asked about my art he had some sort of problem. Months turned to years and more. So now it has been over 6 years, still he has not finished the comic. The sad thing is, he doesn't only owe me the comic, he was good and got me to buy more art from him and only finished one of them. So in all, he owes me the rest of that comic, one stream art and a Fur Affinity icon I bought from him long ago.
After all this, I sent him a message telling what a horrible person he is, how he has wounded me deeply. He was begging to atone for his mistakes, he even offered a refund. But this was beyond any refund, also what little good feelings I had left for him was spent in that moment. I wouldn't take a person's money and bankrupt him, also that would mean he would just seek out another victim to scam.
Then my third one was with
MS-ark.
I bought art from him, again it was for me and my friend. With him I did get even less. He sent me a flat colored version of a picture. I had bought three from him, yet I only get one half finished. He just vanishes from the fandom, I don't really care why, because before you vanish you should either refund or finish the work you were commissioned to do. My friend said that he had returned to the fandom and of course I sent him a message on Fur Affinity, but the note never got read and that does make me furious. Once again an artist has swindled me, another bad person.
Finally the last one who has scammed me, that would be
tomcat
Again he's an artist I like, his art was great and the comic he was doing then was great. I felt so honored when he told me he would add me to his comic, also my sweet love would get in there with me. Even this was a long wait for him to actually do it, which was frustrating. Also when he did that, he made a mistake in the comic page. My love has four cocks, in the first posting he wrote that my love had two, then he fixed it and never admitted that he had made a mistake, Well since I'm in a bit of a dicky mood, here they are.
As you can see in the bottom left panel on the Before picture, Kraken says two cocks and so does Bruno. Then on the After picture he had corrected it, but when we told him about it he denied it. But he had made a mistake, I just don't get why not just say "Sorry about that, I'll correct it". Anyway that wasn't what he had done to me, he hadn't scammed me yet. Now I bought two pieces of art from him, cause I liked his art. Also I knew he was a collector of figurines and statues of all sorts, he has plenty of them. I had this mint condition Kimahri Ronso statue, still in it's box. I traded that for two pictures, which was a shame since it was worth at least four pictures. Anyway so I sent it to him, but this is where it began. He got an artist block and couldn't draw anymore, now it's been years and still nothing. So basically he swindled me out of my money and the figurine, another bad person.
So what are we supposed to do about these people, there is very little we can do. There is no law that we could use to get them, if there is I don't know about it. Would need a lawyers help there, so that's not gonna work. This is one of the reasons why I have thought about officially copyrighting my elephant, so if someone does do this again, maybe I can somehow use the copyright to force them.
I have also thought about starting some sort of website or Facebook group to inform other furries about these crooked artists and such, but it wouldn't only be about artists. In such a website even artists could tell about bad customers, like the ones who harass the artists. My love told me about one website that is like that.
When I saw that website, first thought that went through my mind was "Damn that'a huge mess". And it is, that really is a mess of a website, I have no idea how to navigate it. So I won't be using that one, it needs to be simple and easy to read. Like even a list of all these crooked artist would be one part of my website, there you could see if the artist you are about to commission is good, questionable or just plain bad.
Finally just a message to the moderators here on Fur Affinity, if you silence me about these. Then you are helping out the bad people here, don't be like that. I'm just voicing out my problems, these are only the truths.
So I have had some lousy luck with some furries, I could talk about all the bad relationships. But that's life, you get some bad people along the way in relationships.
What I'm here to talk about is crooked people who cheat, swindle, con, scam, hoax and even hustle others out of their money. I have been a victim more than once and it never feels any better, I should start from my first experience of being a target to a con artist.
I was fairly new to the fandom them, this happened years and years ago, I was a big fan of this character. It was this lecherous blue cat called Skip Beyers drawn by
borni, I thought then he was so sexy and I kinda still do think so. He wasn't super beautiful like a model would be with a perfect skin, Skip was more the rough biker type and that was very attractive. Anyway one of my friends told me that there was a guy who made plushies, so of course I was interested. So I seeked this guy out and found him, his name then was Chaz Wolf. I can't be sure it's the same user here on Fur Affinity, but then his name was Chaz Wolf.So I asked him for a life size replica of Skip, anatomically correct. I was young then, so don't judge me. Well as we got to talk about it and all, it seemed like a relationship started to form. He was so nice and lovely, I sent him the money and it was no small amount. I think it was around $400+ that I sent, so quite a lot. After he got the money, he vanished. He never answered my messages and stuff like that, so basically it was all a scam. The plushie sale and even the relationship, I tried to get him to pay back. Yet that never happened, he scammed me good.
Well that was my first experience with a con artist, second was with good old
markwulfgar.Again he had art that I liked, his comics were very sexy and had decent stories. So me and my friend thought maybe we could get a three part comic from him, so I paid him for like 13 or 15 pages. At first it was going well, I seem to get pages done. Then it began to slow down, he started telling me about difficulties in his life. As a good trusting person, I believed him. Time went on and on, every time I asked about my art he had some sort of problem. Months turned to years and more. So now it has been over 6 years, still he has not finished the comic. The sad thing is, he doesn't only owe me the comic, he was good and got me to buy more art from him and only finished one of them. So in all, he owes me the rest of that comic, one stream art and a Fur Affinity icon I bought from him long ago.
After all this, I sent him a message telling what a horrible person he is, how he has wounded me deeply. He was begging to atone for his mistakes, he even offered a refund. But this was beyond any refund, also what little good feelings I had left for him was spent in that moment. I wouldn't take a person's money and bankrupt him, also that would mean he would just seek out another victim to scam.
Then my third one was with
MS-ark.I bought art from him, again it was for me and my friend. With him I did get even less. He sent me a flat colored version of a picture. I had bought three from him, yet I only get one half finished. He just vanishes from the fandom, I don't really care why, because before you vanish you should either refund or finish the work you were commissioned to do. My friend said that he had returned to the fandom and of course I sent him a message on Fur Affinity, but the note never got read and that does make me furious. Once again an artist has swindled me, another bad person.
Finally the last one who has scammed me, that would be
tomcatAgain he's an artist I like, his art was great and the comic he was doing then was great. I felt so honored when he told me he would add me to his comic, also my sweet love would get in there with me. Even this was a long wait for him to actually do it, which was frustrating. Also when he did that, he made a mistake in the comic page. My love has four cocks, in the first posting he wrote that my love had two, then he fixed it and never admitted that he had made a mistake, Well since I'm in a bit of a dicky mood, here they are.
Before
AfterAs you can see in the bottom left panel on the Before picture, Kraken says two cocks and so does Bruno. Then on the After picture he had corrected it, but when we told him about it he denied it. But he had made a mistake, I just don't get why not just say "Sorry about that, I'll correct it". Anyway that wasn't what he had done to me, he hadn't scammed me yet. Now I bought two pieces of art from him, cause I liked his art. Also I knew he was a collector of figurines and statues of all sorts, he has plenty of them. I had this mint condition Kimahri Ronso statue, still in it's box. I traded that for two pictures, which was a shame since it was worth at least four pictures. Anyway so I sent it to him, but this is where it began. He got an artist block and couldn't draw anymore, now it's been years and still nothing. So basically he swindled me out of my money and the figurine, another bad person.
So what are we supposed to do about these people, there is very little we can do. There is no law that we could use to get them, if there is I don't know about it. Would need a lawyers help there, so that's not gonna work. This is one of the reasons why I have thought about officially copyrighting my elephant, so if someone does do this again, maybe I can somehow use the copyright to force them.
I have also thought about starting some sort of website or Facebook group to inform other furries about these crooked artists and such, but it wouldn't only be about artists. In such a website even artists could tell about bad customers, like the ones who harass the artists. My love told me about one website that is like that.
Artist BewareWhen I saw that website, first thought that went through my mind was "Damn that'a huge mess". And it is, that really is a mess of a website, I have no idea how to navigate it. So I won't be using that one, it needs to be simple and easy to read. Like even a list of all these crooked artist would be one part of my website, there you could see if the artist you are about to commission is good, questionable or just plain bad.
Finally just a message to the moderators here on Fur Affinity, if you silence me about these. Then you are helping out the bad people here, don't be like that. I'm just voicing out my problems, these are only the truths.
1 is totaly my fault and I need to get in contact with the ARTist so we can complete it... 1 is missing from this earth and I don't know how to contact the artist.
the last one is currently in the works with a good artist who's keeping up.
To add to the list however are the artist who have you commision thier work, but refuse to show you the picture till you've paid only to give you a pic that's pretty much a half assed piece of dung... example see http://www.furaffinity.net/view/13217850/ <--- NOT WORTH $30+
Why do you keep sending people and giving people money in" good faith" thats just ...well stupid.
I regret to hear about your swindels and stuff but half of this seem a bit " suit yourself" case.
Dont mean any of the swindlers are any less of ass holes, I kind of just dont want to jump on the" oh poor you" train that is sure to follow , just trying to give ya a bit of a reality check.
No matter how much feelings you get for someone ya never get money invovled unless yav known the person for years.
Well here is hoping to ya wont get swindled no more, hope to see lots of more work of yar charecter n such but maybe only do from trusted ones/ only pay half amount until rest of the picture is done?
Getting a job.
Im not saying HANG UP THE COAT FOREVER, but right now he has obviously bit of more than he can chew, and as you just described, " and wolf further below" is stuck in an infinite loop, where he simply can¨t get out of sense he is not making enough money and thus he is unintetionally "fooling" people.
The meat of the matter is that he should get a job, and do that , pay his bills and then slowly over time pay back everything he owes etc etc.
THEN after that try at a full time commissions again etc etc.
Now GETTING a job in this economy is a fucking nightmare, so its nothing one can snap with ones finger n fix, and is an entire problem all on its own (also i dunno nothing about Marks living situation etc etc, this idea might be something he is very well trying to pull off already)
Also I don't need the "Oh poor you" train, I just wanted to voice out what I have experienced.
But I'm not here to start a random fight, so I'll stop here.
Also the reason you are getting pissy is cause I¨m not telling you what you want to hear, if you want to act like a brat not getting what he wants" the whole sarcastic thing " it makes taking your bane seriously even that less likely
I also never said Chaz Wolf specifically, we all get fooled and swindled sometime or whatever I simply pointed out that continuously letting something" in this case it seem to be love or good faith" cloud your judgement was stupid...and it was.
Im not saying your a worthless dumb twat, im saying it was stupid, we all do stupid shit , every week, hell every day.
I was genuinely trying to give you advice, as most things that goes down with journals like these (this includes everyone) are fans/friends feeling sorry for you and just empowering ones self pity, "all in good thought, but never the less just having Yeah sayers back one up clouds ones judgement " i was just trying to give you some hard dose of reality ,unfiltered by a friendship afraid of giving you the hard truth due to hurting your feelings.
I¨m sure if you read through it again, and try to leave out the feeling that i got it out for you/are calling you out, you would see that too.
Also FYI, no I have never economically fucked up like that cause common sense dictates you never deal with such massive amounts of money with people you don't absolutely trust and have known for several years
But my plea seem to fall on deaf ears sense your still stuck on that i got it out for you, which makes anything I say from now on to be " getting it out for you" so its no use. i did not disagree with you nore did i state your journal had no place to be
The only thing im doing is NOT going "yeah that sucks, hugs hope ya feel better soon hugglez"witch is a cookie cutter answer from people with zero investment in it, n try to bring you an objective perspective,
But you seem to be one of those " If you dont agree with me that means you must be agents me " kind of people so continuing any further is useless.
Also if you did not disagree, then why did is sound like you did.
Another good idea is to put up a preferred artist list. With catagories like
Fast Turn around.
Excellent pricing
Good communication.
And the like. That way folks can see what certain artists are good at. I know this community is heavily controlled by the artist as well as the 'popufurs' but if everyone put in a little effort we could weed out the scammers and funnel funds to the artists that truly deserve it.
I've been in his situation, and while I've been lucky enough to not get stuck in that pit quite as badly as him, I've had a few instances where a commission just doesn't work out as planned. I've had a few where I needed to refund the person, and yes, I have a few still-unresolved art debts that have sat way longer than they should. It's not easy catching up when you fall behind, and when you're living where the instant money hits your hand, you have to throw it at bills or rent or food, sometimes that takes a lot of time just to have anything to spare to refund someone. Shit happens, and it's upsetting and frustrating to both sides of the equation, but it's rarely anything intentionally deceptive or scamming (though those do happen, and it does sound like you've had a few legitimate scams).
You and Kraken have commissioned me more than any but a small handful of people, and I'm >thrilled< that I've continued to satisfy you both and that you continue to want to do more business with me. But again, shit happens, and things could have gone differently, and we might not have had the positive history we've got, and I'd hate to think that you'd see me as an intentional villain if we'd had different luck in our dealings. I can't speak for any of the others you mention, but for whatever my opinion is worth, Mark's really not a bad guy. He's just someone who life seems to shit on more than his fair share, and he's too meek or down on himself (partly because of how painfully he's aware of this reputation he's gotten) to do any of the things he'd need to do to lift himself out of this hole he's dug.
I don't blame you for being mad, you're entirely justified to be upset and feel wronged by the circumstances, but again, for whatever my word is worth, in Mark's case, it's just Life Sucks that way sometimes.
I do hope none of this has in anyway damaged the good relationship we have, because you have been one of the best artists I've done business with and we kinda became friends. So I hope that hasn't changed, I would hate for that to happen.
Some of the examples you name are pretty sad to hear, I expected a bit better from them!!! Even overlooking stealing money, admitting mistakes is such a basic thing that people refuse!
Well I am not sure what action to take, I do know that you're right and that scam artists should be punished or at least avoided, but.. what? We make a system where people mention scam artists and FA bans them or has a warning listed underneath their name? All well and good, but what would stop some trolls from sending in false claims that some innocent guy scammed them? It's a very complicated problem...
A system which would warn people about such things, well first of all these people would of course need to have proof that they have been scammed or wronged. So I know trolls would have a field day with this system, but that shouldn't stop from creating one.